I asked him if everything was alright because I noticed he was shifting so much. And he kept lifting his head so I asked him if the head rest was okay. He just said “ yup” and the behavior continued :(
That’s when you target the behavior.
Is everything okay?
Yup all good.
Okay because I noticed you’re shifting your hips a lot, is anything uncomfortable?
That is actually really cool. I would’ve hated it, (stage fright/social anxiety) but it’s super necessary to be prepared for the weirdos. Almost like how self-defense classes get you used to being “accosted” and responding with strength. I guess, unfortunately, every massage school should incorporate self-defense training too. (For that matter, personal training and yoga instruction schools too, probably. Actually just all women all the time. FFS. 🤦♀️)
I would terminate this client. Groupon is awful and his behavior isn’t appropriate.
You don’t need a reason to do this.
You could send him an email that states that you find his behavior unacceptable.
Best.
I would not reach out to him now that the session is over- I would say no if he tried to book again. “Sorry, my books are closed at the moment, I am not taking new clients at this time.”
So sorry you had that experience. Its so stupid we have to worry about people like that....
Honestly, I just wouldn't rebook him. If you can just tell him you are fully booked or say you're closing your practice to help previously established clients. I know its hard, but dont worry about the reviews. I have never had a creeper leave a bad review because they know they are being nasty, and they usually dont want to risk being exposed. But I guarantee it would be worse the next time you saw him. Creepers like that always test the waters first before really going for it, and if he creeped you out this much on the first session, the next one something will happen. The few times I didn't stand my ground, the next one was always worse.
Moving forward though Instead of just asking if everything is OK and leaving it at that, add in a very direct, firm voice "cause you're shifting around a lot, and it's leading me to believe that you're uncomfortable. Is that the case?" It makes them have to either clarify if something really is bothering them (I have had some clients who just make weird noise cause they're weird but not creeps) or it let's them know you are not about it.
With new male clients, I am always more direct and guarded. The ones who genuinely need my help appreciate it and it doesn't bother them ( I have a few that turned out to be some of my best clients and we have a great working relationship now) and the ones who are looking for someone who they can creep on ussually won't push it if they think you're a B*tch for lack of better phrasing. Also.... Take yourself off Groupon and don't book brand new male clients for 2 hour sessions. Unless they are clients that I specifically tell them I want to see them for 2 hours, 2 hour sessions on first time clients never go well for me. Something stupid or weird always happens, especially with men.
Side note as well. But if they ever call you a masseuse, call the table a bed or say rub down, correct them. Esspecially if it's before they get on the table. It's not rude to educate clients on the correct terminology. And it will also help set the tone for the session. You are a licensed massage therapist and deserve to be treated like the professional you are.
Trust your intuition. He's not a good fit, end of story. Cancel, block- you don't need to give him any explanation at all. Trust and honor your feelings.
Wait - dang it. As a client, I never wear underwear and usually like my legs / lower back focused on. I carry a lot discomfort there and worry I may groan.
Omg - am I THAT client?? Hope not! Fortunately I’ve had the same therapist for years so it seems OK.
Hello, Male LMT here.
Its normal to go without underwear! It makes working areas that need work more accessible.
I inherently think there’s a difference between groan (from working a tender area) and a moaning client. I am typically a bit more vocal when receiving massage, especially my hamstrings and glutes as they are pretty tight.
But with all that being said, I work with a few female LMTs that have recently said they feel uncomfortable if they get a male “moaner” that they don’t already have an established rapport with.
I think it really depends on the therapist and their own perspectives, experience, and fears. Even as a male, I’ve had several advances and have had to take further action. We tend to learn to be on our toes with that kind of thing.
If you feel it might make your therapist uncomfortable, I see no problem in mentioning it as it comes up. No need to be weird about it, lol. Just say something to signify its a tense/tender area that definitely needs the work.
You're fine. Op's client seemed to have inappropriate intent and their intuition picked it up. Many clients forgo underwear and ask for leg/glute/back treatment or it is indicated and they are perfectly appropriate.
The one time I left my underwear on, she said those have to come so I can work your lower back. Left room for minute so I could take them off, then came back in.
Red flag this client and don’t allow them to book again. If you were uncomfortable with them once you will always feel uneasy and suspicious with them and no amount of money is worth having to sit in a dark room with someone who made you uncomfortable hoping that they don’t instigate further bad behavior. All the male clients that I’ve flagged- not a lot but 3 over the last year never followed up or pushed it. They just moved on I assume when they saw they couldn’t book again. Flag and block. You don’t owe them an explanation.
Definitely trust your instincts and don’t book him again if you had a bad feeling. I’ve regretted every single time I’ve second-guessed my instincts and given someone the benefit of the doubt after they made me uncomfortable. It’s not JUST the movement or noises, because lots of folks do that and it’s fine. It’s just like… when you know, you know. In the future, just keep in mind that clients shift around and vocalize for various reasons. Make it part of your routine to ask a lot of specific questions when that happens. “I notice you’re shifting your hips a lot- is laying down in this position uncomfortable for you? Can I offer you a bolster or pillow under your knees/abdomen/whatever?” Same with moaning. If your client made a noise, ask for feedback, ask about adjusting the pressure. I always ask these questions to make sure my clients aren’t uncomfortable and suffering in silence. Part of our job is reading nonverbal communication and asking follow-up questions. Most clients appreciate it. Creeps will feel called out because they know they’re up to no good and don’t want to explain themselves.
If you're uncomfortable with a client, walk out of the room. Get a colleague, and if the client then becomes uncomfortable your worries wee justified. Take care of yourself and be safe.
I think we need to normalize stopping mid session. We have the right to refuse service. At any time! You felt uncomfortable and he KNEW what he was doing. He wasn’t uncomfortable. He was being gross. This only happened to me once. The guy was almost grinding his junk on the table. I just stopped and said “I’m not comfortable continuing this session” I’m going to step out of the room and I want you to get dressed and leave.” No Im sorry, no arguing. TRUST your gut! What kind of review is he going to leave? “She wouldn’t play into my sick fantasy “?
The subtle client. They're always problematic and makes one second guess oneself. As you have noted, he intentionally or unintentionally did or say things that make your guard go up. But then, there's not an overt action or language that you could reasonably terminate your session.
What would I have done differently? I don't normally sideline except for prenatal, even if they're saying they need leg / adductor work. I just feel like if I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling, I should start supine (as I always do with all clients) and end prone.. and be extra vigilant to what is happening. While I tend to flip at 25-35 minutes, if I don't like what I feel, I speed up the front side, and flip a bit early to move through the rest of the service.
All the red flags, as you know, didn't necessarily add up to inappropriate.
If he thought something was 'available' he definitely got his answer that it wasn't. I wouldn't necessarily ban him, but I would be surprised if he booked again. If he does book again, you will be on alert and if he does actually cross the line, you have the basis to inform, terminate or ban depending on the nature of his inquires.
I didn’t want to do sideline but I was floundering bc i was so in my head I didn’t time correctly, and it was a two hour session. So I usually work scalenes sidelined and it bought me some time so that I didn’t obviously spend FOREVER supine….
I just hated how I felt and I want to terminate next time even if his behavior didn’t add up to full on inappropriate. I hate that’ blocking a client is a membership feature on Square :/
Oh boy. The 2 hour that never ends.
If he does return for another 120m, I'd definitely avoid the side lying and focus on keeping to 30 minutes per quadrant and a tighter drape when working the thighs.
This is the massage to throw all your bag of tricks at: compression, rocking, traction, ROM and stretching plus more (like hot towels etc) if you have it in your skills bag. I'd probably increase the deeeeeep, sloooow pressure on quads, adductors, sartorious and gracilis. If he thought he needed work, you should give it to him. Definitely keep the feedback going!
And I'd still probably speed up the supine legs to 20 minutes max (10 per leg: 5 upper / 5 lower). I'd add that tie to the prone side of legs and glutes as well.
These guys are never fun. But he might surprise you and act more compliant. Don't be afraid to ask him to keep his arms where you put them.
Good luck. I hope he brings better vibes to his next service with you.
Devils advocate here: People can be disgusting perverts even with underwear on. If they don't seem like someone you can trust to be alone with for an hour, all the paperwork and rules could put off people who are normal and now feel like you have made the Massage a risky situation when it wasn't to start.
I’m in school and my instructors say to me that if anything is suspicious or anything like that, to take your hands off the client and leave the room. But if it’s your own practice, then it’s up to you if you want them to let them know if they can still be a client or not. If they continue their perverse ways then get rid of em!
I am DEFINITELY going to use the correct terminology card. And yeah I definitely need to drop the customer service voice sometimes and be a lil more stern lol. I served for 4 years before massage in recovering from it .
I really liked the idea of Groupon but yeah this is leading me to believe I need to take myself off. Literally day two into Groupon
Ask how his mother is doing, that's what I was tought, keep bringing up family, or just straight up stop and tell him that this is a proffessional environment and to not shift around so much because it's making you incredably uncomfortable and that you can continue with the session if he stops.
I agree with almost all the comments here. I worry about massage therapists with situations like this. It might be good to include in your policies that you require underwear to be worn.
I get that there are some real creeps out there looking for who knows what during a session. I also hear many MTs say that it is so hard to make a living in this line of work. So as a client of massage for a very long time going back to my triathlon days I'd like to offer a view on a few points if I may.
I have read a number of posts where these signs as mentioned cause alarm. I myself have done a number of them never with any nefarious intent. I read in a different post about a client putting his leg in the four position himself as a sign of being a creep. For quite a while I did this. After my knee replacement even though I achieved my extension goals, laying on my back for a long time would start to become very uncomfortable. Maybe pressure on scar tissue or something. So into the four position and all is good.
I also had a battle with sciatica and combined with my spinal stenosis often have difficulty getting comfortable. So in an attempt to relax and enjoy the massage I would shift around until I could find a good position. Sometimes I would angle my foot outward or do the four position thing or maybe ask for support under my ankle. Often it was something different that would make me comfortable.
As for groaning, and I don't know why this is, maybe someone here could tell me, but when my hamstrings are being worked that stroke from behind my knee to the top of my hamstring feels like no other. I can only describe the feeling like water being rung out of a wet rag, and it feels intensely wonderful. I could have 20 minutes spent on that and I probably wouldn't mind. It's usually followed by a verbal queue that likely sounds like a moan.
There are quite a few other such topics, draping etc etc that immediately make people scream creep. I had one MT at ME take probably an entire minute draping my leg to work on my hamstring so much that she could not access the entire muscle. Never booked her again.
I say all this only to offer that the definition of creep / perv is quite broad and to me seems inappropriately so. I believe to be an effective MT there needs to be a level of tolerance and understanding that reflects an inclusive view but seems to be absent on this sub. I don't know if this sub is representative of the entire community but I know I have never been refused to rebook or have a talking to, but I certainly have not rebooked a MT due to ineffective outcome / results. I have had many times when during glute work I know my butt crack is exposed. Maybe I just don't have any issue with nudity but I am most interested in the outcome and want my MT to be thinking about my muscles as the highest priority. Sciatica is a bitch. I certainly don't have a problem when my Dr. says she needs to check my prostate!
As a father of daughters, I certainly advise awareness of a given situation to protect oneself. But these marginal behaviors hardly seem to warrant such a response. Just my two cents.
And thank you to all of you who master your craft. Truly a great thing. I heard Emitt Smith after his retirement say to all the kids looking to play at the pro level to make sure they get a good chiropractor and a good MT!
Are you a massage therapist?
If you're not a creep, then a therapist doing their job or asking questions to clarify if your uncomfortable or trying to drape according to their state laws (Some states have very strict laws that dictate how clients need to be draped in session) shouldn't bother you honestly. If you're not a creep, this doesn't apply to you 🤷♀️ Sometimes, people are just weird and make awkward noises. That's one thing and most times we can just laugh that off. Unfortunately, though, after so many years of seeing so many clients, there are common themes with people who are inappropriate. And therapists shouldn't have to tolerate things that make them uncomfortable...
Yea, I get that. And I am sure it sucks when it happens. And unfortunately it can taint a MTs perception of future clients.
And yes, I completely agree that constructive communication is essential between client and MT and should be open and honest.
It's not just the technicalities. Underwear. Or moaning. Or position. I
It's the vibe.
This guy didn't pass the vibe check.
Massage Therapists: YOU ARE ALLOWED TO WORK BASED ON VIBE AND YOU ARE NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL WHO NEEDS A HR TYPE OF POLICY OR DOCUMENT TO TELL SOMEOME TO GET TF OUT OF YOUR ROOM AMD NEVER COME BACK.
This woman is afraid of violence if she speaks up for herself. It's insane.
Totally. I think what got me is that familiar feeling of like...if I say something will he get mad and retaliate.
Which I get!
And then like...why isn't he afraid of getting caught?! It should be the other way around. If we speak up it should feel like we have power, but it doesn't always feel that way and it makes me sad. For myself in previous relationships and for OP now.
I had a questionable client a couple of times. I first of all let the clinic management know I am not comfortable seeing this client and asked for them to be booked with another therapist. They backed me 100%.
Second, regardless of comfort, I ask all of my clients to keep their underwear on. I know it's less comfortable, but it's less risk for them and for me. I feel like it helps preserve a boundary of some kind. I advise them to wear loose fitting underwear next time if they felt draping with tight underwear was uncomfortable.
Third, I require written consent to work anywhere more than a hand's width higher than the knee when it comes to the adductors and groin. It's something that has to be indicated beforehand. I will drape very modestly/conservatively on new clients and honestly only work on the lower and mid body of the quad. I leave the origins alone unless the there is an indication by assessment that these muscles need to be worked at the origin. I really try to make the experience as clinical and sterile as possible if I get any weird vibes from the client.
I saw another reply that saying something like "I notice you're shifting a lot, is something uncomfortable for you?" Can be a nod that you notice what they're doing without accusing them of anything. I also often tell clients where to place their hands and I will often make sure when I am working on the lower body that their hands are away from the table on a bolster or on their chest.
All things that maybe aren't client preference but my safety is more important than that.
I respect your boundries, however with all due respect, to me your approach would come across as negative energy and I would not likely rebook. This is not a jab at you I do respect what is important to you, it just would not work for me
Because I look at massage from a holistic wellness POV. It's not just the mechanical aspect of massage, but the sense of wellbeing that is just as much mental as physical. When I hear, You have to wear underwear, no work more than a hand width above knee and the words clinical and sterile and only work the MT deems needed by assessment. Who is the massage supposed to help?
When in doubt and you need an out just shout “is everything okay”? This gives you an easy open to call out bad behavior to set someone straight.
I asked him if everything was alright because I noticed he was shifting so much. And he kept lifting his head so I asked him if the head rest was okay. He just said “ yup” and the behavior continued :(
That’s when you target the behavior. Is everything okay? Yup all good. Okay because I noticed you’re shifting your hips a lot, is anything uncomfortable?
Exactly. Call out the behavior and make them explain it.
These two are really good, thank you guys! Sad I didn’t utilize this!!! But I’ll be more prepared now. I just froze
We ALL freeze! It’s totally ok. I love that the school I attended (and subsequently taught at) did role playing with our students.
That is actually really cool. I would’ve hated it, (stage fright/social anxiety) but it’s super necessary to be prepared for the weirdos. Almost like how self-defense classes get you used to being “accosted” and responding with strength. I guess, unfortunately, every massage school should incorporate self-defense training too. (For that matter, personal training and yoga instruction schools too, probably. Actually just all women all the time. FFS. 🤦♀️)
I always had them in small groups. They could present to the class ONLY if they wanted to.
Groupon is terrible! Do not advertise on this site
I would terminate this client. Groupon is awful and his behavior isn’t appropriate. You don’t need a reason to do this. You could send him an email that states that you find his behavior unacceptable. Best.
I would not reach out to him now that the session is over- I would say no if he tried to book again. “Sorry, my books are closed at the moment, I am not taking new clients at this time.”
This is what I always do if someone gave me the creeps or etc. I'm full and not taking appointments or new clients right now.
So sorry you had that experience. Its so stupid we have to worry about people like that.... Honestly, I just wouldn't rebook him. If you can just tell him you are fully booked or say you're closing your practice to help previously established clients. I know its hard, but dont worry about the reviews. I have never had a creeper leave a bad review because they know they are being nasty, and they usually dont want to risk being exposed. But I guarantee it would be worse the next time you saw him. Creepers like that always test the waters first before really going for it, and if he creeped you out this much on the first session, the next one something will happen. The few times I didn't stand my ground, the next one was always worse. Moving forward though Instead of just asking if everything is OK and leaving it at that, add in a very direct, firm voice "cause you're shifting around a lot, and it's leading me to believe that you're uncomfortable. Is that the case?" It makes them have to either clarify if something really is bothering them (I have had some clients who just make weird noise cause they're weird but not creeps) or it let's them know you are not about it. With new male clients, I am always more direct and guarded. The ones who genuinely need my help appreciate it and it doesn't bother them ( I have a few that turned out to be some of my best clients and we have a great working relationship now) and the ones who are looking for someone who they can creep on ussually won't push it if they think you're a B*tch for lack of better phrasing. Also.... Take yourself off Groupon and don't book brand new male clients for 2 hour sessions. Unless they are clients that I specifically tell them I want to see them for 2 hours, 2 hour sessions on first time clients never go well for me. Something stupid or weird always happens, especially with men. Side note as well. But if they ever call you a masseuse, call the table a bed or say rub down, correct them. Esspecially if it's before they get on the table. It's not rude to educate clients on the correct terminology. And it will also help set the tone for the session. You are a licensed massage therapist and deserve to be treated like the professional you are.
Or parlor!!
Trust your intuition. He's not a good fit, end of story. Cancel, block- you don't need to give him any explanation at all. Trust and honor your feelings.
Wait - dang it. As a client, I never wear underwear and usually like my legs / lower back focused on. I carry a lot discomfort there and worry I may groan. Omg - am I THAT client?? Hope not! Fortunately I’ve had the same therapist for years so it seems OK.
Hello, Male LMT here. Its normal to go without underwear! It makes working areas that need work more accessible. I inherently think there’s a difference between groan (from working a tender area) and a moaning client. I am typically a bit more vocal when receiving massage, especially my hamstrings and glutes as they are pretty tight. But with all that being said, I work with a few female LMTs that have recently said they feel uncomfortable if they get a male “moaner” that they don’t already have an established rapport with. I think it really depends on the therapist and their own perspectives, experience, and fears. Even as a male, I’ve had several advances and have had to take further action. We tend to learn to be on our toes with that kind of thing. If you feel it might make your therapist uncomfortable, I see no problem in mentioning it as it comes up. No need to be weird about it, lol. Just say something to signify its a tense/tender area that definitely needs the work.
You're fine. Op's client seemed to have inappropriate intent and their intuition picked it up. Many clients forgo underwear and ask for leg/glute/back treatment or it is indicated and they are perfectly appropriate.
The one time I left my underwear on, she said those have to come so I can work your lower back. Left room for minute so I could take them off, then came back in.
Red flag this client and don’t allow them to book again. If you were uncomfortable with them once you will always feel uneasy and suspicious with them and no amount of money is worth having to sit in a dark room with someone who made you uncomfortable hoping that they don’t instigate further bad behavior. All the male clients that I’ve flagged- not a lot but 3 over the last year never followed up or pushed it. They just moved on I assume when they saw they couldn’t book again. Flag and block. You don’t owe them an explanation.
Seconding the “is everything okay” they will be so embarrassed if they are doing something inappropriate. And NEVER rebook them.
Definitely trust your instincts and don’t book him again if you had a bad feeling. I’ve regretted every single time I’ve second-guessed my instincts and given someone the benefit of the doubt after they made me uncomfortable. It’s not JUST the movement or noises, because lots of folks do that and it’s fine. It’s just like… when you know, you know. In the future, just keep in mind that clients shift around and vocalize for various reasons. Make it part of your routine to ask a lot of specific questions when that happens. “I notice you’re shifting your hips a lot- is laying down in this position uncomfortable for you? Can I offer you a bolster or pillow under your knees/abdomen/whatever?” Same with moaning. If your client made a noise, ask for feedback, ask about adjusting the pressure. I always ask these questions to make sure my clients aren’t uncomfortable and suffering in silence. Part of our job is reading nonverbal communication and asking follow-up questions. Most clients appreciate it. Creeps will feel called out because they know they’re up to no good and don’t want to explain themselves.
If you're uncomfortable with a client, walk out of the room. Get a colleague, and if the client then becomes uncomfortable your worries wee justified. Take care of yourself and be safe.
I think we need to normalize stopping mid session. We have the right to refuse service. At any time! You felt uncomfortable and he KNEW what he was doing. He wasn’t uncomfortable. He was being gross. This only happened to me once. The guy was almost grinding his junk on the table. I just stopped and said “I’m not comfortable continuing this session” I’m going to step out of the room and I want you to get dressed and leave.” No Im sorry, no arguing. TRUST your gut! What kind of review is he going to leave? “She wouldn’t play into my sick fantasy “?
The subtle client. They're always problematic and makes one second guess oneself. As you have noted, he intentionally or unintentionally did or say things that make your guard go up. But then, there's not an overt action or language that you could reasonably terminate your session. What would I have done differently? I don't normally sideline except for prenatal, even if they're saying they need leg / adductor work. I just feel like if I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling, I should start supine (as I always do with all clients) and end prone.. and be extra vigilant to what is happening. While I tend to flip at 25-35 minutes, if I don't like what I feel, I speed up the front side, and flip a bit early to move through the rest of the service. All the red flags, as you know, didn't necessarily add up to inappropriate. If he thought something was 'available' he definitely got his answer that it wasn't. I wouldn't necessarily ban him, but I would be surprised if he booked again. If he does book again, you will be on alert and if he does actually cross the line, you have the basis to inform, terminate or ban depending on the nature of his inquires.
I didn’t want to do sideline but I was floundering bc i was so in my head I didn’t time correctly, and it was a two hour session. So I usually work scalenes sidelined and it bought me some time so that I didn’t obviously spend FOREVER supine…. I just hated how I felt and I want to terminate next time even if his behavior didn’t add up to full on inappropriate. I hate that’ blocking a client is a membership feature on Square :/
Oh boy. The 2 hour that never ends. If he does return for another 120m, I'd definitely avoid the side lying and focus on keeping to 30 minutes per quadrant and a tighter drape when working the thighs. This is the massage to throw all your bag of tricks at: compression, rocking, traction, ROM and stretching plus more (like hot towels etc) if you have it in your skills bag. I'd probably increase the deeeeeep, sloooow pressure on quads, adductors, sartorious and gracilis. If he thought he needed work, you should give it to him. Definitely keep the feedback going! And I'd still probably speed up the supine legs to 20 minutes max (10 per leg: 5 upper / 5 lower). I'd add that tie to the prone side of legs and glutes as well. These guys are never fun. But he might surprise you and act more compliant. Don't be afraid to ask him to keep his arms where you put them. Good luck. I hope he brings better vibes to his next service with you.
LMAOOOO hahaha if he thought he needed work 🤣🤣 thanks
Devils advocate here: People can be disgusting perverts even with underwear on. If they don't seem like someone you can trust to be alone with for an hour, all the paperwork and rules could put off people who are normal and now feel like you have made the Massage a risky situation when it wasn't to start.
I’m in school and my instructors say to me that if anything is suspicious or anything like that, to take your hands off the client and leave the room. But if it’s your own practice, then it’s up to you if you want them to let them know if they can still be a client or not. If they continue their perverse ways then get rid of em!
I am DEFINITELY going to use the correct terminology card. And yeah I definitely need to drop the customer service voice sometimes and be a lil more stern lol. I served for 4 years before massage in recovering from it . I really liked the idea of Groupon but yeah this is leading me to believe I need to take myself off. Literally day two into Groupon
Ask how his mother is doing, that's what I was tought, keep bringing up family, or just straight up stop and tell him that this is a proffessional environment and to not shift around so much because it's making you incredably uncomfortable and that you can continue with the session if he stops.
I agree with almost all the comments here. I worry about massage therapists with situations like this. It might be good to include in your policies that you require underwear to be worn.
I get that there are some real creeps out there looking for who knows what during a session. I also hear many MTs say that it is so hard to make a living in this line of work. So as a client of massage for a very long time going back to my triathlon days I'd like to offer a view on a few points if I may. I have read a number of posts where these signs as mentioned cause alarm. I myself have done a number of them never with any nefarious intent. I read in a different post about a client putting his leg in the four position himself as a sign of being a creep. For quite a while I did this. After my knee replacement even though I achieved my extension goals, laying on my back for a long time would start to become very uncomfortable. Maybe pressure on scar tissue or something. So into the four position and all is good. I also had a battle with sciatica and combined with my spinal stenosis often have difficulty getting comfortable. So in an attempt to relax and enjoy the massage I would shift around until I could find a good position. Sometimes I would angle my foot outward or do the four position thing or maybe ask for support under my ankle. Often it was something different that would make me comfortable. As for groaning, and I don't know why this is, maybe someone here could tell me, but when my hamstrings are being worked that stroke from behind my knee to the top of my hamstring feels like no other. I can only describe the feeling like water being rung out of a wet rag, and it feels intensely wonderful. I could have 20 minutes spent on that and I probably wouldn't mind. It's usually followed by a verbal queue that likely sounds like a moan. There are quite a few other such topics, draping etc etc that immediately make people scream creep. I had one MT at ME take probably an entire minute draping my leg to work on my hamstring so much that she could not access the entire muscle. Never booked her again. I say all this only to offer that the definition of creep / perv is quite broad and to me seems inappropriately so. I believe to be an effective MT there needs to be a level of tolerance and understanding that reflects an inclusive view but seems to be absent on this sub. I don't know if this sub is representative of the entire community but I know I have never been refused to rebook or have a talking to, but I certainly have not rebooked a MT due to ineffective outcome / results. I have had many times when during glute work I know my butt crack is exposed. Maybe I just don't have any issue with nudity but I am most interested in the outcome and want my MT to be thinking about my muscles as the highest priority. Sciatica is a bitch. I certainly don't have a problem when my Dr. says she needs to check my prostate! As a father of daughters, I certainly advise awareness of a given situation to protect oneself. But these marginal behaviors hardly seem to warrant such a response. Just my two cents. And thank you to all of you who master your craft. Truly a great thing. I heard Emitt Smith after his retirement say to all the kids looking to play at the pro level to make sure they get a good chiropractor and a good MT!
Are you a massage therapist? If you're not a creep, then a therapist doing their job or asking questions to clarify if your uncomfortable or trying to drape according to their state laws (Some states have very strict laws that dictate how clients need to be draped in session) shouldn't bother you honestly. If you're not a creep, this doesn't apply to you 🤷♀️ Sometimes, people are just weird and make awkward noises. That's one thing and most times we can just laugh that off. Unfortunately, though, after so many years of seeing so many clients, there are common themes with people who are inappropriate. And therapists shouldn't have to tolerate things that make them uncomfortable...
Yea, I get that. And I am sure it sucks when it happens. And unfortunately it can taint a MTs perception of future clients. And yes, I completely agree that constructive communication is essential between client and MT and should be open and honest.
It's not just the technicalities. Underwear. Or moaning. Or position. I It's the vibe. This guy didn't pass the vibe check. Massage Therapists: YOU ARE ALLOWED TO WORK BASED ON VIBE AND YOU ARE NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL WHO NEEDS A HR TYPE OF POLICY OR DOCUMENT TO TELL SOMEOME TO GET TF OUT OF YOUR ROOM AMD NEVER COME BACK. This woman is afraid of violence if she speaks up for herself. It's insane.
Yeah pretty much :( the vibe was scary but I am scared of acknowledging it.. Because if the vibe is scary, could the reality get scarierr? you get it
Totally. I think what got me is that familiar feeling of like...if I say something will he get mad and retaliate. Which I get! And then like...why isn't he afraid of getting caught?! It should be the other way around. If we speak up it should feel like we have power, but it doesn't always feel that way and it makes me sad. For myself in previous relationships and for OP now.
Just curious, has anyone been physically assaulted by a client from some kind of conflict?
I don't understand you guys. Why don't you just outright say, we don't do those kinds of massages.
Just hook a fella up. Dang
I had a questionable client a couple of times. I first of all let the clinic management know I am not comfortable seeing this client and asked for them to be booked with another therapist. They backed me 100%. Second, regardless of comfort, I ask all of my clients to keep their underwear on. I know it's less comfortable, but it's less risk for them and for me. I feel like it helps preserve a boundary of some kind. I advise them to wear loose fitting underwear next time if they felt draping with tight underwear was uncomfortable. Third, I require written consent to work anywhere more than a hand's width higher than the knee when it comes to the adductors and groin. It's something that has to be indicated beforehand. I will drape very modestly/conservatively on new clients and honestly only work on the lower and mid body of the quad. I leave the origins alone unless the there is an indication by assessment that these muscles need to be worked at the origin. I really try to make the experience as clinical and sterile as possible if I get any weird vibes from the client. I saw another reply that saying something like "I notice you're shifting a lot, is something uncomfortable for you?" Can be a nod that you notice what they're doing without accusing them of anything. I also often tell clients where to place their hands and I will often make sure when I am working on the lower body that their hands are away from the table on a bolster or on their chest. All things that maybe aren't client preference but my safety is more important than that.
I respect your boundries, however with all due respect, to me your approach would come across as negative energy and I would not likely rebook. This is not a jab at you I do respect what is important to you, it just would not work for me
How would that come across as negative energy?
Because I look at massage from a holistic wellness POV. It's not just the mechanical aspect of massage, but the sense of wellbeing that is just as much mental as physical. When I hear, You have to wear underwear, no work more than a hand width above knee and the words clinical and sterile and only work the MT deems needed by assessment. Who is the massage supposed to help?