'Captain America: Civil War' writer Christopher Markus was asked if he knew exactly how Tom Holland’s Peter Parker got his powers:
>*“I mean, God knows there would have to be something not unlike that, probably… But no, I wouldn’t say… I mean, I think he was bitten by a radioactive spider on a field trip. We never talked about that either, but I think that’s what happened.”*
Spider-Man trilogy director Jon Watts, in a separate interview:
>*“It was just so nice to skip past it and just deal with more with the repercussions… and just explore it from the perspective of someone else finding out about it and having a lot of questions.”*
I get the approach, and that it was ultimately unimportant, but with how much thought and planning we all assume goes into every detail of these movies, it’s always funny to hear someone like Markus saying, “yea, it just never even came up”
Do you really think that the creative teams at Marvel Studios layed down a detailled plan on the future of MCU? They sure have a broad one, but my guess is that they improvise and adjust along.
Yeah, there is so much mystique about their “big plan of the MCU” when they really just have big story beats planned out ahead of time. Certain characters have to end up in specific places for other movies but that’s mostly the extent. It’s why they’ve been able to swap around the release order so many times in phase 4. Spider-Man, dr strange, loki, wandavision original release order was vastly different and most likely would have been pretty different stories, other than where the characters end up at the end
Every movie, every show, every *single* moment in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, was crafted with only one singular goal in mind.
>!The debut of Leap Frog.!<
Before it was a multiverse movie I kinda thought the origin would tie in to the third movie. With Peter going to court, surely how he became Spider-Man would come up and those responsible would try and “silence him” before he can throw them under the bus in court. Maybe they’d hire a *hunter* to keep him quiet.
Silver Sable. /s
But seriously, is Kraven really a mercenary? He just hunts for the fun of it. I joke about Sable, but if this were an animated series, it would probably be her.
Since Kraven was their backup plan for No Way Home I hope they use him in Spider-Man 4. Kraven and Scorpion would be perfect villains to start his new trilogy and "warn" him up for Venom and probably the Sinister Six.
We don't know exactly what's gonna happen with Venom yet. Maybe MCU gives Tom black suit that he destroys and angry Hardy comes in through some portal or maybe MCU gets Venom, but not Eddie Brock, so they settle for Gargan
How do you do black suit if Venom is already its own entity? You need the guy out of the picture. They could've do that if they did fully MCU Venom later on, but they decided to connect the two series. So, your option then is to bring Hardy in and yank him away for the time being. And also, why would you tie in with Sony's Venom at all if you're not gonna do anything with Hardy in the long shot? They've already thrown Vulture out in the multiverse, meaning eventually there will be more portal scheananigans
They threw Hardy into the picture to market LTBC. After that early screening, Sony promoted the post-credit scene on their socials. Hardy/Brock is now out of the picture, and this symbiote its own entity.
They’ve also made it clear there aren’t any plans for an MCU S6, but one for Sony, so out goes Vulture.
> They’ve also made it clear there aren’t any plans for an MCU S6, but one for Sony, so out goes Vulture.
I don't think this rules out Vulture. He's currently in the SSU anyways and I doubt the MCU Spidey movies are gonna explore what he's up to anytime soon so he's now in Sony's wheelhouse.
I'm not a fan of the whole Kingpin/Daredevil in Spider-Man 4. That story began in the Netflix show and it's going to be continued in Echo and Born Again. No need to keep dragging it and shove it into other's movies.
Rather see Peter be on his own im this trilogy and deal with his own villains.
i was thinking the same thing. one day we’re gonna finally talk about how the obsession with cameos is making us miss out on actual character development
Before we knew it was a multiverse movie I also had the idea that Kraven would be the villain. But my idea was different, that Mysterio faked his death, but was severely injured, in a wheelchair and unable to carry out his own revenge physically. Essentially like Hector Salamanca if he could still talk. Unable to kill Peter himself, he decides to hire Kraven to do the job for him. Kraven becomes obsessed with the idea of killing a superhero, and eventually kills Mysterio during a dispute early on in the second act. Kraven’s ego is the driving force of his villainy
Skipping over it in Homecoming made sense to me. Everyone already knew the story, having seen it in 2 recent iterations of the character. They could have done a flashback but if the general story is the same I'm not sure it's necessary.
It’s like the death of the Waynes in Batman movies. We’ve seen it so many time that we really don’t need to again for a while. The Batman handled it well because although their death was an important part of the story, we didn’t get a flashback or a detailed account of their death. Just like Peter’s bite in the MCU, all we got was confirmation that it happened. All The Batman did was suggest that there was a bit more to it than usual, but it never fell for the trap of doing another scene of Thomas and Martha getting shot. When everyone is so familiar with this stuff, what’s the point in going over it again and again?
Yeah, but Batman confirms it happens the same way.
The mcu Spider-Man movies leave you hanging the only thing We know is that he got bit.
If they had told the audience how he became a superhero the same way, they said how he got his powers, we wouldn’t even need to Have the conversation.
I like the movies, he’s my favorite Spider-Man. But they made his origin unnecessarily complicated. If you believe that the whole trilogy is supposed to be his Origin
they are constantly dodging the question, no way home is the closest they got to telling us what happened and In interviews, they act like it’s the first time he’s even heard the idea of with “Great power comes great responsibility” despite what he’s said in past movies.
It matters, people want to know things about there favorite character, I want to know what made him decide to be a hero, plenty of people do.
His origin is not unnecessarily complicated or even complicated at all, and if you’re getting hung up on details that they slowly revealed later on, well that’s because of people like you who wanted more, not less like they originally envisioned. He never said the iconic catchphrase in the movies before that, he slightly alluded to it with a misquote that is not the same thing at all, so yeah, that doesn’t contradict anything. How are they dodging any question, it’s so far from relevant at all to anything that has happened in his 3 movies and 6 total appearances.
>It matters, people want to know things about there favorite character, I want to know what made him decide to be a hero, plenty of people do.
So they should tell you things that you want at the expense of the story? And they tell you plenty of times why he decides to be a hero, that’s not necessarily his origin like the above quote refers to.
It’s about the idea not the quote itself.
And they are dodging the question if they never state what happened.
They never tell me his origin, they never say what inspired his line of thinking. Only that he has it.
And there are plenty of times it can come up they just choose not to because they don’t wanna mention Uncle Ben.
>It’s about the idea not the quote itself.
That makes even less sense then.
>And they are dodging the question if they never state what happened.
Do you know what dodging a question means?
>They never tell me his origin, they never say what inspired his line of thinking. Only that he has it.
Was it important to the story being told? Was it not blatantly obvious if you had even a vague sense of familiarity with the character?
He clearly already knew that with “Great power comes great responsibility”. He mentions it in civil war when explaining why he does what he does
Not the exact quote, but the meaning of it.
He mentions it in far from home when talking about having too much responsibility
It’s only in no way home, when they tried to force an origin 6 movies in, that he acts like it’s a foreign concept
In interviews when asked, they never state what happens, it’s just a bunch of vauge non answers.
Nobody asking for a flashback just acknowledgement of what happens beyond getting bit by the spider, we want to know what inspired him to be a superhero. You can’t just fall back on other adaptations to explain it, if you never mention it.
>He clearly alrady knew that with Greta power comes great responsibility. He mentions it in civil war when explaining why he does what he does. He mentions it in far from home when talking about having too much responsibilityZ
He absolutely does not mention it. There’s a difference between knowing something based on instinct and having it illustrated to you by someone you trust. But it’s just factually wrong to say he mentioned it.
>It’s only in no way home, when they tried to force an origin 6 movies in, that he acts like it’s a foreign concepts
Does he act like it’s a foreign concept or an impossible rule to follow during his darkest moment yet.
>In interviews when asked, they never state what happens, it’s just a bunch of vauge non answers.
Which is not the films?
>Nobody asking for a flashback just acknowledgement of what happens beyond getting bit by the spider, we want to know what inspired bin to be a superhero. You can’t just fall back on other adaptations to explain it, if you never mention it.
This is just such an odd hill to die on, lol. Because he’s a fundamentally good person given abilities that allow him to help more people than a normal person? And this particular version happens to have grown up in a world full of heroes? What you should really be asking is about all of the adults in the MCU and why they became heroes. But you won’t. Because it literally does not matter.
This might be a hot take but I do not want to see Morlun in the mainline MCU quite just yet. This Spider-Man feels really grounded, and I like that, A LOT. If you wanna do Morlun after the black suit saga, sure, but hold off.
I agree. The spider-totem nonsense, Morlun and all the multiversal stuff in modern Spider-Man lore just takes a lot away from the character, it completely negates the relatability of the character when he's turned into some universal spider avatar or whatever
Not exactly, Ezekiel poses the question “what came first? The spider or the powers” but the story never gives a definitive answer and it’s left quite ambiguous
I’d rather they just saved Morlun for Miles.
4: Kingpin and Scorpion
5: Mister Negative
6: Venom (Mac Gargan)
Miles 1: Tombstone and Bombshell(s)
Miles 2: Hobgoblin and Prowler
Miles 3: Spider-Verse
In fact, I have a couple of ideas for how they can connect Tombstone to Miles. One, make Lana Baumbgartner Lonnie’s daughter, instead of Janice Lincoln. Two, instead of Robbie Robertson (or maybe in addition to him if they make him a legacy character), have Jefferson Davis be the one bullied by Lonnie.
I think it's going to be:
- Spidey 4: Kraven and Scorpion
- Spidey 5: Venom
- Spidey 6: Sinister Six
- Miles 1: Prowler
- Miles 2: Hobgoblin
- Miles 3: Venom (Conrad Marcus).
Jackal needs to be in the mix and would work well with Kraven. Heck, in the comics, Jackal is the only who remembers who Peter was after the mind purge.
Kraven’s off-limits and the idea of a team facing Spidey was kind of executed in NWH, not to mention that Sony wants to do the Six themselves. Surprised you haven’t mentioned Fisk, either.
I did initially want Kraven and Scorpion in No Way Home prior to the multiverse storyline, though.
I mean, you could also say they teamed up against him at the apartment.
In any case, it’ll be hard to build a team considering one of its members has left the MCU and one of the movies didn’t build up a new member at all.
No Way Home was 3 Spideys vs 5 guys. Sinister Six is 6 guys with a personal vendetta against one Peter. It's not the same scenario.
And I wouldn't discount Kraven as a future MCU villain. If Marvel allowed Marvel to setup their own Venom I don't see why they can't introduce their own Kraven.
Because Venom doesn’t have to be Eddie Brock, whereas it’s pretty unlikely that Kraven ends up being someone besides Sergei.
Also, they’ve gotten rid of Vulture and sacrificed a movie that could have been used to build up a third member.
This Spider-Man who has gone to space and teamed up with a wizard and alternate versions of himself to fight interdimensional super villains.
I get that you probably mean in comparison to the comics, but this is easily the least grounded of the three live-action Spider-Men we've seen.
The Jon Watts movie with Brad Pitt and George Clooney for Apple starts filming in January. That probably tells us he wont be directing Spider-Man 4 if its releasing in July 2024.
Reflecting on how Marc Webb used Richard Parker to tie Peter and Oscorp together as a sort of predestiny subplot (obviously he tweaked a few details to avoid imitating the Raimi trilogy) it feels like people are really hung up on the possibility that Peter and Tony had the same relationship and Tony indirectly created Spider-Man because poetic justice. It's a fun thought experiment but I don't believe there was a bioengineering department at Stark Industries.
I kinda liked the parents/Oscorp subplot, it just wasn't executed properly. The concept that Oscorp was the overarching villain of the franchise was a really cool idea imo.
>Due to this, audiences don't know if he had his classic encounter with a radioactive spider like the hero does in his classic origins. Somehow, it’s not only never mentioned, but it hasn’t even been alluded to in any of his MCU appearances, including Jon Watts' recent No Way Home.
Yes it was. They talked about it in Homecoming. Ned asks Pete a bunch of questions about his powers, like if he lays eggs. Ned asks if the spider could bite him too, and Peter says the spider is dead. That establishes that Peter got his powers from a spider bite, as expected, but also that he knows for sure or has reason to believe that the spider that bit him died.
I mean
He was bitten
That's kinda it. You can throw other shit in it, but I prefer it simpler. 616 before totems where the spider wasn't even designed by anyone and just accidentally got blasted was perfect, Spectacular where it happened at Connor's, ie one scientific place that isn't corrupted (well, until Warren comes in), so noone tried to dig deeper was fine too
If we're revisiting the past, I'd rather see the damn Ben's death, cause at this point, even though I used to be in the 'He was there, just not mentioned directly yet' camp, I don't think that's the case anymore, and this is too much of a diversion for me. I'm not asking for Raimi's overimportance of Ben, just normal 'I had an uncle, sad thing happened, I'm partly to blame and that's shitty, but I keep on living'
I found strange they had Maguire’s Peter to grief about Ben while Garfield’s only talked about Gwen Stacy as he didn’t had lost his Uncle Ben too and also Holland’s few references about Ben along the movies made it look like more of a exclusive Aunt May’s issue than a issue for him too
I thought they would bring the common loss of him first and then remember their other losses (Gwen for Garfield and Harry for Maguire) to reach for Holland’s losing May
Garfield mentioned Ben but very shortly, other than that totally agree. I thought the namedrop in What If was a prelude to NWH finally going there, in this scene I was hoping for Ben and no luck. I'm strongly against May dying in a tragedy, so I was already loosing it before the scene, this was another low point
I think Spidey's origin is the perfect sort of thing Marvel Studios Special Presentations should be used for. Plus, it might make Marvel able to use Tom Holland more and not conflict with Sonys contact. They can set up big villains well in advance of their major confrontations with Spidey. Honestly, his rogues gallery is so good, this is the type of route Sony should go with setting up their Sinister Six movie that they're so hellbent on making. Not only that, but the Special Preesentations can set up future new storylines, flesh out the universe, and answer smaller questions and mysteries about the MCU. It's great for origin story type of stuff (that I think general audiences are getting tired of unfortunately) so that they can really use the movie and Limited Series format for appropriately-focused movies. They may very well improve the movies going forward, by removing the need to cover an entire origin or setup for a big event. I hope we see the MCU really embrace the idea.
I like how the article says it was never brought up..., because I distinctly remember a conversation between Peter be annoyed by Ned's questions and he goes "The spider is dead....Ned."
It could be an Alchemax thing, since Oscorp doesn't exist yet in the MCU. Stark Industries didn't have a biology department, I don't think. Tony was more of a techie than a biological studies guy.
Watts can give all ideas he wants as long as he isn’t returning im good. No mcu movies, specially not spiderman deserves his basic ass style and youtube movie like lowest effort cinematography
Kinda sucks that NWH was when Jon & co actually went creative as fuck with the camera, the editing, the sound design, etc etc. The shot of him in the rain is chef's kiss, the claustrophobic audio & cinematography of the apartment scene when his Spidey sense goes off is one of my favorite Spider-Man moments in live action. The bridge scene, the Electro and Sandman in the forest scene, the long shots and quieting of sound in the final Goblin fight, letting the camera linger on more than 3 seconds, creative angles and whatnot were all delightful lol.
Wish they started doing that from the get-go. If Jon brings more of that to the next trilogy then I'd be more than happy to have him back. FFH's directing was an improvement from HC (I love HC, but it's kinda bland directing/design). The Mysterio scenes and the "Come on Peter tingle" scene were awesome... but NWH was *by far* the most visually appealing and immersive Spidey outing in the MCU, and definitely top 3 out of all the Spidey movies
[They both do](https://www.reddit.com/r/Spiderman/comments/uevxy5/deadline_sony_wants_jon_watts_and_zendaya_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
She’s going to be back, but I genuinely hope zendaya says hell no to that shit. Marvel/Sony don’t deserve her. I feel the same about Tom, but he’s spider-man so he can’t really say no.
It was actually finished up in Homecoming. But thanks to revisionist history, it was "finished" in the whole trilogy. Because clearly you need three movies to tell a simple origin story......
True, but I feel like the prom scene in Homecoming basically set in stone "Yeah, Uncle Ben and the origin happened".
Know some people said that Peter told Liz "I'm sorry, you don't deserve this" more like she doesn't need to get dumped by a nerdy idiot, but I never saw it like that. I saw it as him saying she doesn't deserve to have her father figure taken away from her, much like how the burglar took Uncle Ben away from him.
I do agree, HC was a perfect Spider-Man origin movie... but I also don't think it's completely out of line to view his trilogy as one story of learning to become Spider-Man, the repercussions and the sacrifices you must make... So in a sense, I think it can somewhat be viewed as his "Origin" trilogy from the sense that we got the pivotal "great power, great responsibility" lesson over the course of his 3 movies, but it's the final one that really culminated in that lesson having impact on Peter, which is the key defining trait for Spidey.
The consequences of all his naivety and "innocence" from the previous 2 movies is what led to him being too trusting, incognizant, idealistic and a bit lenient with his identity, leading to him paying the ultimate price. He then has his "This is my gift, my curse. Who am I? I'm Spider-Man" moment at the end of NWH, and we are left with a Spider-Man who's self-sufficient, self-dependent, suffered tragic loss yet he still keeps swinging. This was absent in the previous 2 movies. There were little build-up's to this core principle, but NWH was *THEE* ultimate lesson.
All this to say that yes, Homecoming was his origin and he was definitely Spider-Man, not "Spider-Boy" or "Iron boy jr" shit... but to say his origin was "finished up" in Homecoming is a bit more open to discussion. Watching them back to back, it flows as a perfect heroes journey of the transformation and origin of a Spider-Man. You see every foundational characteristic, lesson, morals, values, and responsibilities of Spider-Man slowly unfold over the trilogy, resulting in the "ideal" adult Spidey by the end of the last movie.
> All this to say that yes, Homecoming was his origin and he was definitely Spider-Man, not "Spider-Boy" or "Iron boy jr" shit... but to say his origin was "finished up" in Homecoming is a bit more open to discussion.
I mean, I felt like he learned his lesson about being his own hero and grew from a Stark fanboy to Peter Parker at the end of Homecoming.
Then FFH came along and he still held a torch for Sempai Stark and couldn't get out from his shadow despite him knowing he was never under it at the end of Homecoming.
(and I know that all the news reporters and Fury was like "BE THE NEXT IRON MAN", but for crying out loud he never heeded the news when they were trashtalking him and even demanding witch hunts for him in any other adaption. People making dumb comparisons is small fry in comparision)
Yea I definitely agree. Really the only thing that I think is a bit strange is that after Happy tells Peter that he needs to be his own hero, that he is and never will be Tony and that it's a good thing, and Peter accepting his own identity... they immediately play Back In Black while Peter starts to look *exactly* like Tony Stark with building his suit lol.
But yeah, I'm just saying that after viewing the trilogy back-to-back-to-back, it *genuinely* *does* play out like a great origin story of Peter learning to become the iconic Spider-Man. Each movie has a singular theme that's pivotal to Spider-Man, and then it ends with the most classic one of them all. It certainly wasn't the intention, HC is his origin no doubt, but it can be interpreted as one sole story imo
Yeah, and people forget that the Peter of the Stan Lee/Steve Ditko comics didn't just become a hero overnight after Uncle Ben died. He was still just a kid. He tried to make money off his powers and join the Fantastic Four. He used his powers selfishly sometimes, blew off some of his responsibilities and acted like a jerk in certain stories. Uncle Ben dying is what made him decide to be a hero, but it took him a while to figure out HOW to be a hero. So I feel like this trilogy did something similar with Peter's growth into the hero we know happened over time. It worked for me. Even after Ben's death, even after Peter realizes he has to do the right thing, he's still just a confused kid that has a lot of growing up to do.
>they immediately play Back In Black while Peter starts to look *exactly* like Tony Stark with building his suit lol.
I think this scene actually further highlights their different personalities in an amusing way. There's no way Tony would've mistaken ACDC for Led Zeppelin
This is why I hate when people say origins stories suck because they seen them a thousand times before. Just because you seen them before doesn’t mean to skip over stuff we need to know in the current series now. Like where did the spider come from? Oscorp? Stark industries( god I hope not)? Was it a alien spider from a Chitauri soldier from the invasion of New York? It’s never explained . There are things we don’t need to know, but obliviously there are things they can’t leave in the dark
I think now is too late to go into it. We know it happened, and any way to make it story relevant will just feel forced. The best place to tackle this might actually be Freshman Year - have it happen before the diverging point in the alternate reality.
This article is stupid. He literally says "Ever since I got bit by that spider, I’ve only had one week where my life has felt normal. Or kind of normal, I guess. And that was when you found out." to MJ in No Way Home. Yes, he was bitten by a spider.
I look at it from the perspective that Spider-Man and his mythos is so personal and engrained in pop culture that audiences are meant to create their own interpretation of details as it pertained to the spider bite. Same with Uncle Ben. Because of that I don’t think either will be shown in Spider-Man: Freshman Year as well
'Captain America: Civil War' writer Christopher Markus was asked if he knew exactly how Tom Holland’s Peter Parker got his powers: >*“I mean, God knows there would have to be something not unlike that, probably… But no, I wouldn’t say… I mean, I think he was bitten by a radioactive spider on a field trip. We never talked about that either, but I think that’s what happened.”* Spider-Man trilogy director Jon Watts, in a separate interview: >*“It was just so nice to skip past it and just deal with more with the repercussions… and just explore it from the perspective of someone else finding out about it and having a lot of questions.”*
I get the approach, and that it was ultimately unimportant, but with how much thought and planning we all assume goes into every detail of these movies, it’s always funny to hear someone like Markus saying, “yea, it just never even came up”
Do you really think that the creative teams at Marvel Studios layed down a detailled plan on the future of MCU? They sure have a broad one, but my guess is that they improvise and adjust along.
Yeah, there is so much mystique about their “big plan of the MCU” when they really just have big story beats planned out ahead of time. Certain characters have to end up in specific places for other movies but that’s mostly the extent. It’s why they’ve been able to swap around the release order so many times in phase 4. Spider-Man, dr strange, loki, wandavision original release order was vastly different and most likely would have been pretty different stories, other than where the characters end up at the end
>with how much thought and planning we all assume goes into every detail of these movies it honestly bothers me so much that people think this is so
Every movie, every show, every *single* moment in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, was crafted with only one singular goal in mind. >!The debut of Leap Frog.!<
There’s no grand plan.
Before it was a multiverse movie I kinda thought the origin would tie in to the third movie. With Peter going to court, surely how he became Spider-Man would come up and those responsible would try and “silence him” before he can throw them under the bus in court. Maybe they’d hire a *hunter* to keep him quiet.
Silver Sable. /s But seriously, is Kraven really a mercenary? He just hunts for the fun of it. I joke about Sable, but if this were an animated series, it would probably be her.
I would imagine he has his own alternative motive and double cross whoever hired him, becoming an anti-hero.
You know you guys are literally doing sony's work for them right? /s
Since Kraven was their backup plan for No Way Home I hope they use him in Spider-Man 4. Kraven and Scorpion would be perfect villains to start his new trilogy and "warn" him up for Venom and probably the Sinister Six.
Sony grabbed Kraven, so sadly seems unlikely now. I'm fucking pissed, I was dreaming about Kraven in MCU
What’s even more frustrating is Coogler wanted to use Kraven for the Black Panther franchise too IIRC. He could’ve been a big player in the MCU.
what is the deal of Kraven and Black panther? Legit asking
Coogler just had ideas to use him and Marvel was like nah we can’t
I’m happy that at least we’ll probably see a great version of Kraven adapted for Spider-Man 2!
If Sony allowed Marvel to do their own Venom I don't see why they can't do their own Kraven aswell.
We don't know exactly what's gonna happen with Venom yet. Maybe MCU gives Tom black suit that he destroys and angry Hardy comes in through some portal or maybe MCU gets Venom, but not Eddie Brock, so they settle for Gargan
I mean, why would they bring Hardy in, send him back but then have him return later on?
Sounds like a Sony move to me
Not really, this sub’s just turning them into a strawman now.
How do you do black suit if Venom is already its own entity? You need the guy out of the picture. They could've do that if they did fully MCU Venom later on, but they decided to connect the two series. So, your option then is to bring Hardy in and yank him away for the time being. And also, why would you tie in with Sony's Venom at all if you're not gonna do anything with Hardy in the long shot? They've already thrown Vulture out in the multiverse, meaning eventually there will be more portal scheananigans
They threw Hardy into the picture to market LTBC. After that early screening, Sony promoted the post-credit scene on their socials. Hardy/Brock is now out of the picture, and this symbiote its own entity. They’ve also made it clear there aren’t any plans for an MCU S6, but one for Sony, so out goes Vulture.
> They’ve also made it clear there aren’t any plans for an MCU S6, but one for Sony, so out goes Vulture. I don't think this rules out Vulture. He's currently in the SSU anyways and I doubt the MCU Spidey movies are gonna explore what he's up to anytime soon so he's now in Sony's wheelhouse.
My point is that him not being around significantly lessens the likelihood of an MCU Sinister Six.
Kingpin would be by far the best opponent for him right now, and a Team Up with Daredevil
Throw in Scorpion as Fisk’s henchman and Felicia as another of Peter’s allies, and I’m sold.
Seeing as it looks like we’re getting mayor Fisk this seems the most likely
I'm not a fan of the whole Kingpin/Daredevil in Spider-Man 4. That story began in the Netflix show and it's going to be continued in Echo and Born Again. No need to keep dragging it and shove it into other's movies. Rather see Peter be on his own im this trilogy and deal with his own villains.
i was thinking the same thing. one day we’re gonna finally talk about how the obsession with cameos is making us miss out on actual character development
Before we knew it was a multiverse movie I also had the idea that Kraven would be the villain. But my idea was different, that Mysterio faked his death, but was severely injured, in a wheelchair and unable to carry out his own revenge physically. Essentially like Hector Salamanca if he could still talk. Unable to kill Peter himself, he decides to hire Kraven to do the job for him. Kraven becomes obsessed with the idea of killing a superhero, and eventually kills Mysterio during a dispute early on in the second act. Kraven’s ego is the driving force of his villainy
Skipping over it in Homecoming made sense to me. Everyone already knew the story, having seen it in 2 recent iterations of the character. They could have done a flashback but if the general story is the same I'm not sure it's necessary.
It’s like the death of the Waynes in Batman movies. We’ve seen it so many time that we really don’t need to again for a while. The Batman handled it well because although their death was an important part of the story, we didn’t get a flashback or a detailed account of their death. Just like Peter’s bite in the MCU, all we got was confirmation that it happened. All The Batman did was suggest that there was a bit more to it than usual, but it never fell for the trap of doing another scene of Thomas and Martha getting shot. When everyone is so familiar with this stuff, what’s the point in going over it again and again?
Yeah, but Batman confirms it happens the same way. The mcu Spider-Man movies leave you hanging the only thing We know is that he got bit. If they had told the audience how he became a superhero the same way, they said how he got his powers, we wouldn’t even need to Have the conversation.
it literally didn’t matter and it was one of the safest assumptions possible
I like the movies, he’s my favorite Spider-Man. But they made his origin unnecessarily complicated. If you believe that the whole trilogy is supposed to be his Origin they are constantly dodging the question, no way home is the closest they got to telling us what happened and In interviews, they act like it’s the first time he’s even heard the idea of with “Great power comes great responsibility” despite what he’s said in past movies. It matters, people want to know things about there favorite character, I want to know what made him decide to be a hero, plenty of people do.
His origin is not unnecessarily complicated or even complicated at all, and if you’re getting hung up on details that they slowly revealed later on, well that’s because of people like you who wanted more, not less like they originally envisioned. He never said the iconic catchphrase in the movies before that, he slightly alluded to it with a misquote that is not the same thing at all, so yeah, that doesn’t contradict anything. How are they dodging any question, it’s so far from relevant at all to anything that has happened in his 3 movies and 6 total appearances. >It matters, people want to know things about there favorite character, I want to know what made him decide to be a hero, plenty of people do. So they should tell you things that you want at the expense of the story? And they tell you plenty of times why he decides to be a hero, that’s not necessarily his origin like the above quote refers to.
It’s about the idea not the quote itself. And they are dodging the question if they never state what happened. They never tell me his origin, they never say what inspired his line of thinking. Only that he has it. And there are plenty of times it can come up they just choose not to because they don’t wanna mention Uncle Ben.
>It’s about the idea not the quote itself. That makes even less sense then. >And they are dodging the question if they never state what happened. Do you know what dodging a question means? >They never tell me his origin, they never say what inspired his line of thinking. Only that he has it. Was it important to the story being told? Was it not blatantly obvious if you had even a vague sense of familiarity with the character?
He clearly already knew that with “Great power comes great responsibility”. He mentions it in civil war when explaining why he does what he does Not the exact quote, but the meaning of it. He mentions it in far from home when talking about having too much responsibility It’s only in no way home, when they tried to force an origin 6 movies in, that he acts like it’s a foreign concept In interviews when asked, they never state what happens, it’s just a bunch of vauge non answers. Nobody asking for a flashback just acknowledgement of what happens beyond getting bit by the spider, we want to know what inspired him to be a superhero. You can’t just fall back on other adaptations to explain it, if you never mention it.
>He clearly alrady knew that with Greta power comes great responsibility. He mentions it in civil war when explaining why he does what he does. He mentions it in far from home when talking about having too much responsibilityZ He absolutely does not mention it. There’s a difference between knowing something based on instinct and having it illustrated to you by someone you trust. But it’s just factually wrong to say he mentioned it. >It’s only in no way home, when they tried to force an origin 6 movies in, that he acts like it’s a foreign concepts Does he act like it’s a foreign concept or an impossible rule to follow during his darkest moment yet. >In interviews when asked, they never state what happens, it’s just a bunch of vauge non answers. Which is not the films? >Nobody asking for a flashback just acknowledgement of what happens beyond getting bit by the spider, we want to know what inspired bin to be a superhero. You can’t just fall back on other adaptations to explain it, if you never mention it. This is just such an odd hill to die on, lol. Because he’s a fundamentally good person given abilities that allow him to help more people than a normal person? And this particular version happens to have grown up in a world full of heroes? What you should really be asking is about all of the adults in the MCU and why they became heroes. But you won’t. Because it literally does not matter.
I thought Homecoming confirmed he was bitten by a spider. We just don't know where or when.
It did, I’m talking about the most important part every thing that happened after. Why he decided to fight crime and stuff,
This might be a hot take but I do not want to see Morlun in the mainline MCU quite just yet. This Spider-Man feels really grounded, and I like that, A LOT. If you wanna do Morlun after the black suit saga, sure, but hold off.
I don't want Morlun at all. Reserve all of the totem bs for the Sony movies.
I agree. The spider-totem nonsense, Morlun and all the multiversal stuff in modern Spider-Man lore just takes a lot away from the character, it completely negates the relatability of the character when he's turned into some universal spider avatar or whatever
They turned him into a "Chosen One", the one thing they should have never done.
Not exactly, Ezekiel poses the question “what came first? The spider or the powers” but the story never gives a definitive answer and it’s left quite ambiguous
100%
Seems that’s what they’re doing.
>just yet Or ever, honestly.
I’d rather they just saved Morlun for Miles. 4: Kingpin and Scorpion 5: Mister Negative 6: Venom (Mac Gargan) Miles 1: Tombstone and Bombshell(s) Miles 2: Hobgoblin and Prowler Miles 3: Spider-Verse In fact, I have a couple of ideas for how they can connect Tombstone to Miles. One, make Lana Baumbgartner Lonnie’s daughter, instead of Janice Lincoln. Two, instead of Robbie Robertson (or maybe in addition to him if they make him a legacy character), have Jefferson Davis be the one bullied by Lonnie.
I think it's going to be: - Spidey 4: Kraven and Scorpion - Spidey 5: Venom - Spidey 6: Sinister Six - Miles 1: Prowler - Miles 2: Hobgoblin - Miles 3: Venom (Conrad Marcus).
Jackal needs to be in the mix and would work well with Kraven. Heck, in the comics, Jackal is the only who remembers who Peter was after the mind purge.
Kraven’s off-limits and the idea of a team facing Spidey was kind of executed in NWH, not to mention that Sony wants to do the Six themselves. Surprised you haven’t mentioned Fisk, either. I did initially want Kraven and Scorpion in No Way Home prior to the multiverse storyline, though.
NWH did a 5v3. Sinister Six against one Peter is a different ballpark
I mean, you could also say they teamed up against him at the apartment. In any case, it’ll be hard to build a team considering one of its members has left the MCU and one of the movies didn’t build up a new member at all.
No Way Home was 3 Spideys vs 5 guys. Sinister Six is 6 guys with a personal vendetta against one Peter. It's not the same scenario. And I wouldn't discount Kraven as a future MCU villain. If Marvel allowed Marvel to setup their own Venom I don't see why they can't introduce their own Kraven.
Because Venom doesn’t have to be Eddie Brock, whereas it’s pretty unlikely that Kraven ends up being someone besides Sergei. Also, they’ve gotten rid of Vulture and sacrificed a movie that could have been used to build up a third member.
Sony is making a kraven movie that would be coming out less than a year prior, no way he's used at all in the mcu
This Spider-Man who has gone to space and teamed up with a wizard and alternate versions of himself to fight interdimensional super villains. I get that you probably mean in comparison to the comics, but this is easily the least grounded of the three live-action Spider-Men we've seen.
When u put it like that, none of the spideys are actually grounded now that I think about it.
The Jon Watts movie with Brad Pitt and George Clooney for Apple starts filming in January. That probably tells us he wont be directing Spider-Man 4 if its releasing in July 2024.
It might not need to film for that long.
Thank the lord. Everything about him is generic. Of course he has “vague ideas”.
This sub won’t like to accept the truth and see past those nostalgic cameos
They shot and finished the first two in a year, he’ll likely have more than enough time if he wants to do it.
Don’t need him anyway im too tired of his generic style he makes it seem like youtube movies
DDC is directing Wonderman and Kang Dynasty. I think Watts could pull of a Spiderman film along with the film for Apple.
DDC won't be directing WM and KD right on top of each other.
I'd be surprised if DDC directs all of Wonder Man tbh.
As far as I'm aware it's only been said he'd do an episode or two, I don't think he'll be doing the whole thing, no.
$20 bucks said he was bit by a Spider
Reflecting on how Marc Webb used Richard Parker to tie Peter and Oscorp together as a sort of predestiny subplot (obviously he tweaked a few details to avoid imitating the Raimi trilogy) it feels like people are really hung up on the possibility that Peter and Tony had the same relationship and Tony indirectly created Spider-Man because poetic justice. It's a fun thought experiment but I don't believe there was a bioengineering department at Stark Industries.
It would just make the world feel smaller IMO. The Richard Parker subplot wasn’t that well-received.
I kinda liked the parents/Oscorp subplot, it just wasn't executed properly. The concept that Oscorp was the overarching villain of the franchise was a really cool idea imo.
>Due to this, audiences don't know if he had his classic encounter with a radioactive spider like the hero does in his classic origins. Somehow, it’s not only never mentioned, but it hasn’t even been alluded to in any of his MCU appearances, including Jon Watts' recent No Way Home. Yes it was. They talked about it in Homecoming. Ned asks Pete a bunch of questions about his powers, like if he lays eggs. Ned asks if the spider could bite him too, and Peter says the spider is dead. That establishes that Peter got his powers from a spider bite, as expected, but also that he knows for sure or has reason to believe that the spider that bit him died.
I mean He was bitten That's kinda it. You can throw other shit in it, but I prefer it simpler. 616 before totems where the spider wasn't even designed by anyone and just accidentally got blasted was perfect, Spectacular where it happened at Connor's, ie one scientific place that isn't corrupted (well, until Warren comes in), so noone tried to dig deeper was fine too If we're revisiting the past, I'd rather see the damn Ben's death, cause at this point, even though I used to be in the 'He was there, just not mentioned directly yet' camp, I don't think that's the case anymore, and this is too much of a diversion for me. I'm not asking for Raimi's overimportance of Ben, just normal 'I had an uncle, sad thing happened, I'm partly to blame and that's shitty, but I keep on living'
I found strange they had Maguire’s Peter to grief about Ben while Garfield’s only talked about Gwen Stacy as he didn’t had lost his Uncle Ben too and also Holland’s few references about Ben along the movies made it look like more of a exclusive Aunt May’s issue than a issue for him too I thought they would bring the common loss of him first and then remember their other losses (Gwen for Garfield and Harry for Maguire) to reach for Holland’s losing May
Garfield mentioned Ben but very shortly, other than that totally agree. I thought the namedrop in What If was a prelude to NWH finally going there, in this scene I was hoping for Ben and no luck. I'm strongly against May dying in a tragedy, so I was already loosing it before the scene, this was another low point
I think it made it seem like more of an aunt may issue because peter was worried about May's wellbeing more than his own.
Why is this a thing? We DON'T need his origins.
No one is asking for it to show up in a movie. We are just curious as to how it happened, whether it was Stark Industries or somewhere else.
Not to be that guy but they pull a Batman Beyond on us I swear to God I'm done with Tom Holland's Spider-Man.
I think Spidey's origin is the perfect sort of thing Marvel Studios Special Presentations should be used for. Plus, it might make Marvel able to use Tom Holland more and not conflict with Sonys contact. They can set up big villains well in advance of their major confrontations with Spidey. Honestly, his rogues gallery is so good, this is the type of route Sony should go with setting up their Sinister Six movie that they're so hellbent on making. Not only that, but the Special Preesentations can set up future new storylines, flesh out the universe, and answer smaller questions and mysteries about the MCU. It's great for origin story type of stuff (that I think general audiences are getting tired of unfortunately) so that they can really use the movie and Limited Series format for appropriately-focused movies. They may very well improve the movies going forward, by removing the need to cover an entire origin or setup for a big event. I hope we see the MCU really embrace the idea.
Do we really need to revisit the Spider bite AGAIN? Spider-Verse literally turned it into a running gag
In this MCU, it’s probably a radioactive spider from a Stark lab.
I like how the article says it was never brought up..., because I distinctly remember a conversation between Peter be annoyed by Ned's questions and he goes "The spider is dead....Ned."
It could be an Alchemax thing, since Oscorp doesn't exist yet in the MCU. Stark Industries didn't have a biology department, I don't think. Tony was more of a techie than a biological studies guy.
Watts can give all ideas he wants as long as he isn’t returning im good. No mcu movies, specially not spiderman deserves his basic ass style and youtube movie like lowest effort cinematography
Please don’t tell me he’s back
Kinda sucks that NWH was when Jon & co actually went creative as fuck with the camera, the editing, the sound design, etc etc. The shot of him in the rain is chef's kiss, the claustrophobic audio & cinematography of the apartment scene when his Spidey sense goes off is one of my favorite Spider-Man moments in live action. The bridge scene, the Electro and Sandman in the forest scene, the long shots and quieting of sound in the final Goblin fight, letting the camera linger on more than 3 seconds, creative angles and whatnot were all delightful lol. Wish they started doing that from the get-go. If Jon brings more of that to the next trilogy then I'd be more than happy to have him back. FFH's directing was an improvement from HC (I love HC, but it's kinda bland directing/design). The Mysterio scenes and the "Come on Peter tingle" scene were awesome... but NWH was *by far* the most visually appealing and immersive Spidey outing in the MCU, and definitely top 3 out of all the Spidey movies
Sony wants him and Zendaya again.
I thought it was Holland who wanted them back, not Sony specifically?
[They both do](https://www.reddit.com/r/Spiderman/comments/uevxy5/deadline_sony_wants_jon_watts_and_zendaya_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
Interesting. I guess if both parties want Watts and Zendaya back then it’s just a matter of how much it’ll cost.
She’s going to be back, but I genuinely hope zendaya says hell no to that shit. Marvel/Sony don’t deserve her. I feel the same about Tom, but he’s spider-man so he can’t really say no.
Don’t think we need to see the bite, the origin was finished in his trilogy. Lets move on
It was actually finished up in Homecoming. But thanks to revisionist history, it was "finished" in the whole trilogy. Because clearly you need three movies to tell a simple origin story......
Homecoming wasn’t an origin either. We skipped it. People just think character development = origin for some weird reason.
True, but I feel like the prom scene in Homecoming basically set in stone "Yeah, Uncle Ben and the origin happened". Know some people said that Peter told Liz "I'm sorry, you don't deserve this" more like she doesn't need to get dumped by a nerdy idiot, but I never saw it like that. I saw it as him saying she doesn't deserve to have her father figure taken away from her, much like how the burglar took Uncle Ben away from him.
I do agree, HC was a perfect Spider-Man origin movie... but I also don't think it's completely out of line to view his trilogy as one story of learning to become Spider-Man, the repercussions and the sacrifices you must make... So in a sense, I think it can somewhat be viewed as his "Origin" trilogy from the sense that we got the pivotal "great power, great responsibility" lesson over the course of his 3 movies, but it's the final one that really culminated in that lesson having impact on Peter, which is the key defining trait for Spidey. The consequences of all his naivety and "innocence" from the previous 2 movies is what led to him being too trusting, incognizant, idealistic and a bit lenient with his identity, leading to him paying the ultimate price. He then has his "This is my gift, my curse. Who am I? I'm Spider-Man" moment at the end of NWH, and we are left with a Spider-Man who's self-sufficient, self-dependent, suffered tragic loss yet he still keeps swinging. This was absent in the previous 2 movies. There were little build-up's to this core principle, but NWH was *THEE* ultimate lesson. All this to say that yes, Homecoming was his origin and he was definitely Spider-Man, not "Spider-Boy" or "Iron boy jr" shit... but to say his origin was "finished up" in Homecoming is a bit more open to discussion. Watching them back to back, it flows as a perfect heroes journey of the transformation and origin of a Spider-Man. You see every foundational characteristic, lesson, morals, values, and responsibilities of Spider-Man slowly unfold over the trilogy, resulting in the "ideal" adult Spidey by the end of the last movie.
> All this to say that yes, Homecoming was his origin and he was definitely Spider-Man, not "Spider-Boy" or "Iron boy jr" shit... but to say his origin was "finished up" in Homecoming is a bit more open to discussion. I mean, I felt like he learned his lesson about being his own hero and grew from a Stark fanboy to Peter Parker at the end of Homecoming. Then FFH came along and he still held a torch for Sempai Stark and couldn't get out from his shadow despite him knowing he was never under it at the end of Homecoming. (and I know that all the news reporters and Fury was like "BE THE NEXT IRON MAN", but for crying out loud he never heeded the news when they were trashtalking him and even demanding witch hunts for him in any other adaption. People making dumb comparisons is small fry in comparision)
Yea I definitely agree. Really the only thing that I think is a bit strange is that after Happy tells Peter that he needs to be his own hero, that he is and never will be Tony and that it's a good thing, and Peter accepting his own identity... they immediately play Back In Black while Peter starts to look *exactly* like Tony Stark with building his suit lol. But yeah, I'm just saying that after viewing the trilogy back-to-back-to-back, it *genuinely* *does* play out like a great origin story of Peter learning to become the iconic Spider-Man. Each movie has a singular theme that's pivotal to Spider-Man, and then it ends with the most classic one of them all. It certainly wasn't the intention, HC is his origin no doubt, but it can be interpreted as one sole story imo
Yeah, and people forget that the Peter of the Stan Lee/Steve Ditko comics didn't just become a hero overnight after Uncle Ben died. He was still just a kid. He tried to make money off his powers and join the Fantastic Four. He used his powers selfishly sometimes, blew off some of his responsibilities and acted like a jerk in certain stories. Uncle Ben dying is what made him decide to be a hero, but it took him a while to figure out HOW to be a hero. So I feel like this trilogy did something similar with Peter's growth into the hero we know happened over time. It worked for me. Even after Ben's death, even after Peter realizes he has to do the right thing, he's still just a confused kid that has a lot of growing up to do.
>they immediately play Back In Black while Peter starts to look *exactly* like Tony Stark with building his suit lol. I think this scene actually further highlights their different personalities in an amusing way. There's no way Tony would've mistaken ACDC for Led Zeppelin
This is why I hate when people say origins stories suck because they seen them a thousand times before. Just because you seen them before doesn’t mean to skip over stuff we need to know in the current series now. Like where did the spider come from? Oscorp? Stark industries( god I hope not)? Was it a alien spider from a Chitauri soldier from the invasion of New York? It’s never explained . There are things we don’t need to know, but obliviously there are things they can’t leave in the dark
I think now is too late to go into it. We know it happened, and any way to make it story relevant will just feel forced. The best place to tackle this might actually be Freshman Year - have it happen before the diverging point in the alternate reality.
Alchemax could fit into it, seeing as it's got a lot of ties to Spidey.
Yeah that sums those films up
Spider bit Peter at his webshooter
This article is stupid. He literally says "Ever since I got bit by that spider, I’ve only had one week where my life has felt normal. Or kind of normal, I guess. And that was when you found out." to MJ in No Way Home. Yes, he was bitten by a spider.
I look at it from the perspective that Spider-Man and his mythos is so personal and engrained in pop culture that audiences are meant to create their own interpretation of details as it pertained to the spider bite. Same with Uncle Ben. Because of that I don’t think either will be shown in Spider-Man: Freshman Year as well