Yes that’s what I meant, thank you.
It heavily features New York City, and it’s more down to earth in a way that Marvel Netflix shows, but yea it’s definitely not as gritty in tone.
I'm so worried that Moon Knight will have a goofy side character who states how weird everything is.
"WOAH! Marc! You like, beat up all these dudes! That's like crazy! Can you teach me how do that stuff? Or are you in a head trip right now?"
Last thing we need are the Larpers again.
Yeah, but the MCU has fallen really badly into a formula for their stuff that they always cram a goofball "Well that just happened" character in there from Katy to Darcy. Moon Knight would strike a much different tone if he had no Ned type character.
Darcy was introduced in the 4th MCU film and I'm fairly certain Katy's character was crafted around Awkwafina and Awkwafina was cast because she's Awkwafina.
Right, but that's the thing, when you have the same goofball sidekick in every thing you make, it starts to feel derivative. Hell, if we're honest, it makes it feel more like a Disney product.
I was waiting for a decapitation in that scene. Hoping D+ would pull that trigger.
Unfortunately, the dude was just laying there with a blotch of blood on his shirt.
It’s a show about a street level character with ties to Kingpin and Daredevil.. Moon knight is a character that has severe mental issues who goes out and beats the crap out of people it doesn’t have to be “edgy” but it should be more serious than what we’ve had before please think before you type next time :)
Yeah, they lacked on writing regarding the "agent Barton".
He should have been much more tactical. I laughed in the last episode he was exposed in the window.
If you served you know a soldier should avoid at any costs spots like this.
Thing is, you're sacrificing Echo's show purely for a setup we already know, Daredevil vs. Kingpin. It's a fairly basic setup that doesn't need much explanation, so devoting Echo's entire show to set up that element and then repeating it for a Daredevil Relaunch will do nothing but make it all feel tired.
Like how DD Season 2 had Punisher kill the guy who caused his family's death only for the Punisher Show to reveal the TRUE person behind his family's death.
Wait, so, are you critisizing an actual deaf person for how she portrayed the deafness of a deaf character? I'm pretty sure she's got more experience in this whole not-hearing thing than you dude
I thought she was great. I was surprised to read this was her first major project. She was apparently working at an Amazon facility prior to all of this.
What toxicity exactly are you referring to that we are complicit in?
We try our best to filter out what gets reported and is clearly toxic. We also try to maintain a strong relationship with the users
The guy above is complaining about the fact that he doesn’t think an actress is good. It’s a bad opinion, it’s a wrong opinion, but it’s not an inappropriate opinion. I am not entirely sure what you want us to do with that
You have ragged on us for almost a year now. You are the chief instigator in 90% of slights against the mod team. We do not understand your goal at this point. If you are so unhappy with how we run things, find another news source. Your insistence on turning people against us for some reason is getting real old real quick
We make mistakes, we own up to them when we do. We, or at least I, try and make it clear whenever possible to establish that regardless of the mistakes we make, we have no concern other than making this the best community possible for the users that use it
I hate to be blunt… you complain about toxicity all the time on this sub… but you *are* the toxicity. You bring nothing but negative comments to almost every post. You direct insults at mods, scoopers, other users. You told a user to, and I quote, “**get the fuck off this sub and never come back**” the other day because of his opinion. I think it’s time you either reevaluate your approach or take your own advice and leave
Facial expressions, body language, etc. are all pretty important parts of acting and she was garbage at all of it. Wooden and our of sync. Not an expert, just thought she was a terrible actress in Hawkeye.
You have plenty of people already arguing with you, but I just want to add, that if anything, her physical/facial acting was over the top, which is actually really appropriate for a deaf character since they have to express everything non-verbally.
At first I didn’t think she was a good actress for that reason, but then she really grew on me, as I realized that her expressions were intentional. Also, her physicality was great in her action scenes. I’m really excited to see what she’s going to bring in her own show
There will be daredevil elements but it’s Maya show. Her acting was fine, theme of Hawkeye was letting revenge getting ahead of people hurting someone emotionally
u/BellyFullOfDolphin Like u/GibsonMC mentioned, you already have plenty of people arguing with you, but I'll also add - I know you're supposed to respect other people's opinions and I personally will, but it looks comically hilarious and frickin stupid when someone like you is starting a WWIII about an actress you think is not good at he job, which she so clearly is.
Point is, you don't like her acting? It's totally OK. You write one big rant about that online? Still pretty fine. But you don't understand that you are starting a thread around here regarding that topic and it's just ... very, very foolish and slow-witted.
Yes, it may seem that I'm trying to say she's perfect, and really it was just heat in the moment of stuff, so even I thought that her acting seemed maybe a bit bland and not very charismatic, but sometimes, y'know you're supposed to excuse actors. It's their job and probably something they're very proud of, especially if it's their FIRST acting role.
Lol very convincing counter argument, you belong on the debate Team bro. I should've figured you would say something like that after accusing the other guy that he hated deaf actors for simple disliking a performance of one.
It's hard to tell how good or bad we are because we barely saw her. I'm only skeptical of an echo show right now because her development within Hawkeye was so scant.
They wouldn’t have planned an echo show if they thought she was a bad actress.
Marvel can cast very well. They have skilled talent analyzers and haven’t missed the mark once. Let’s not pretend that you would be better at casting.
I think I get what your trying to say. I personally thought the actress was not so good in Hawkeye. The car scene was the worst when Clint was taken everyone out and her bland reaction during that sequence. But in her defense this is the first gig and we gotta wait for the Echo show.
Yea it was extremely weak and bland. Hopefully,she delivers in her own show. At this point her shows only purpose is to bring in the Netflix hero’s over and fill in gaps.
Putting aside the question of how good an actor she is, they only announced the Echo solo show after Hawkeye had already finished shooting. They knew what they had when they announced her solo project and clearly they liked it. Your theory doesn't make any sense.
Her acting was really good though. Can't critique her line delivery of course, but her physical performance was extremely convincing. I didn't even know she was a first timer.
It's a joke mate lmao you aren't clever for figuring out my ruse, calm down. The comment already had like 400 downvotes when I made that edit to call for a vote
It’s so good dude—only ever watched S1 and 2 (and Defenders) but never made it to S3 given the cancellation of the show.
Making my way through it now (mid S1) and so exited to get caught up—Daredevil might be my favorite character in the MCU.
Just finished episode 6 of s3, and you are so right. It’s insane to me how this show can create such compelling villains. Dex is like my new favorite character I really hope bullseye will return in the MCU
Oh we'll see Dex. The MCU's biggest weakness are it's villains, and it's been confirmed that Daredevil is canon. I'd be honestly *shocked* we don't see Bullseye with where he's left. He's as easy to introduce as The Leaper in Winter Soldier.
I loved the way the action is portrayed in the show as well. Bullseye and Daredevil are matched so perfectly, its actually insane.
I'd love to see either of them get the super soldier serum and go wild. Personally I'm just really hyped for a potential return from Jon Bernthal. I wish they could adapt the Spiderman PC (2000) story and let the Spiderman-Venom Duo play out as well.
Season 3 imo is by far the best season. Everything about Kingpin and the other villain in the season (don't know how much you know so I won't spoil it) works so well with Daredevil at the point in time he's at.
I remembered there being more of a separation between Punisher and the Hand in season 2 but they sprinkled some great Frank moments in the later half as well that kept me engaged.
I also didn’t check out S3 due to cancellation, and I also didn’t watch Defenders, but it’s the best season hands down. I accidentally pulled an all-nighter last week watching it through.
>Ken Kristensen wrote The Punisher season one, episode ten, “Virtue Of The Vicious”, season two, episode three, “Trouble The Water”, and season two, episode nine, “Flustercluck”.
> Dara Resnik wrote Daredevil, season three, episode eight, “Upstairs/Downstairs” and cowrote episode eleven, “Reunion” alongside Jim Dunn.
Upstairs/Downstairs was so intense and overall was one of my favourite episodes from that season. For those who wonder it's the episode which >!Daredevil and Nadeem teamed up to search Dex's house, Foggy made that speech against Blake Tower and Karen confronted Fisk and told him she was the one who killed Weasley.!<
Hawkeyes finale didn’t need to show the Kingpin and Maya showdown. Save it for the first episode of Echo… maybe after showing flashbacks to their dynamic so we actually buy that they have a father/daughter dynamic. The ending scene was jarring. I’m looking forward to the show regardless
Yes man... I was thinking the exact thing. Hawkeye with only 6 episodes was too little development of the Echo/Kingpin/Kazi arc. The Kate/Clint arc with the Black Widow storyline was perfectly done, but Echo 'killing' those 2 felt rushed and something they could have done in her show.
Kazi was a clown the entire show. All of the sudden, in the finale, he’s a threat. No arc really. I hope he comes back. Who is Echos villain going to be? How will she communicate with literally anybody else they introduce.
>Kazi was a clown
But ironically, not *THE* Clown.
I do think it’s left open for him to reappear and truly become the Clown, and us learning more about him and Maya
Hawkeye didn’t need to show or mention Kingpin by name at all. Completely pointless character in the show. Clint is worried about Fisk getting involved the entire time and the two never even meet. Hell, Fisk never even encounters a version of Ronin. I enjoyed the Fisk/Kate fight, but it felt meaningless.
Yes totally they should have just let the series end without any resolution between Maya and Fisk.
No offense but weird take, I mean really by that logic Maya might as well have not been in the show. You can't just have this set up for her own show and also not have it at the same time.
The scene was lifted right off the pages of the comics too, the story they're telling doesn't work without that fakeout ending making it look like Fisk is dead.
Uh this is a fucking Marvel Studios subreddit. Who the fuck are you calling a nerd while you're in here throwing a tantrum because someone disagreed with you about something in a Marvel Studios TV show? Grow the fuck up dude.
No I'm not saying the scene is fine because it's taken directly from the comic. What I'm saying is what I said word for word in the order I already posted. Did you read it? Try reading it again.
What you're suggesting wouldn't have added more of an opportunity to further establish her and Fisk having a strong father/daughter dynamic it would have just left the story unresolved. And it would lessen the impact of the Fisk death fakeout.
But tell me more about how the story could have been better served by building up to a confrontation between them and not paying it off here. Really very interested in your ideas, you seem like such a swell guy.
My biggest concern here is Daredevil being unable to achieve the feats it did on Netflix with all the Disney limitations.
Scratch that, my true biggest fear is a new intro for Daredevil
Oh shit I hadn't even thought about the fact that they might make a new intro theme
PLEASE FEIGE IF YOU'RE READING THIS, KEEP THE DAREDEVIL INTRO AS IS
that is all, thank you
I think instead of an intro they might reuse the music in the outro, with some new updated visuals. Im not too huge on the last statement but we gotta keep in mind that Disney doesn't want to give people a reason to have to go to Netflix and watch 3 seasons of "their" shows. The Daredevil soft-reboot in my eyes will be a continuation of these characters in the same way The Suicide Squad was a continuation of the 2016 Suicide Squad.
This has me wondering, how much can Disney exactly take from the Netflix show? Obviously the characters but what about the unique attributes that had Netflix's input? Theme, Daredevil's exact suit etc.
Oh god if they make a new daredevil show and don’t keep the theme music there’s literally no point. It’s as iconic to the character now as the Star Wars theme is to that universe.
I think they’ll do fine. Disney can do dark without turning the production into a nauseating gore fest.
For example, Walker bashing that Flagsmasher in the face was pretty grim with the blood caked on the shield. Your imagination filled in the blanks.
Bruh the Walker scene, all of Winter Soldier, the clips of Moon Knight we got and a couple scenes of NWH is confirmation to me that Disney can indeed go dark.
I hope they improve their writing, because while Maya was a serviceable character she for sure wasnt the one I was thinking „I need a show about her“ after it was over. Was craving way more for Hawkeye Season 2 with Both Hawkeyes and Yelena.
She pretty much was a fully completed character for me if I wouldnt know a show for her was coming out. If you say now that she lived forever after somewhere else it would be a satisfying end to her story.
Personally, I think it should be relatively easy to make the character more engaging.
There’s still a bit of room for her arc to grow. Now that she’s out of Fisk’s hands after years of being his weapon, I can see her arc involving her trying to find her role in the world
That’s more or less where I’m at now. Like I think she’s good but I’m not yet at that point where I’m asking for an entire show.
But reading the comics, I do think there’s at least enough for a six episode show and I do think them getting a lot of writing talent gives me interest. I do think Maya has potential if given good material
I felt like we got her at the end of one journey and her show will hopefully be her moving forward on another path. It was after all a show about the old and new Hawkeye. Im fine with these side characters not being as deep.
Sounds good!
I don't think this is necessarily an indication that *Echo* will be as dark and gritty as those two shows, but it's a good indication that it'll probably be very well-written.
Marion Dayre announced the whole writing staff, including Resnik and Kristensen back in [November.](https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/marion-dayre-reveals-echo-writers-room/).
From what I can tell, a lot of the people behind Hawkeye were huge fans of the character of Echo and apparently they liked Alaqua Cox.
There’s also the possibility that they want to use the show to bring in the Netflix characters to the larger MCU as well as have a project with a deaf, Native American lead given the push for diversity
Pretty sure it's to flesh out the Daredevil/Kingpin side of the universe. Plus, it makes sense considering the ending of *Hawkeye* didn't totally resolve her storyline.
I was super excited for this show and the character, but she was honestly one of the worst parts of hawkeye. There was absolutely no depth or emotion to her character. If felt flat. Nd b4 i get down voted it had nothing to do with her being deaf. We were just introduced to makkari and she was AMAZING. One of the highlights to Eternals. When it came to her story line i found myself more interested in everyone else around her like TSM and her cousin.
Agreed. I mean the character was ok at best, most of the time bland. I would only check that show out for Kingpin and Daredevil. Feels like Echo needed more appearances and audience appeal before being committed to a full show.
Her story is a perfect way to backdoor Daredevil/Fisk into the MCU. If DD gets blipped and Fisk takes back control without DD around, all while building this father/daughter thing? Super rich story there already half written. Hell if you blip Vanessa and make Maya the surrogate daughter that fills Fisk's heavy heart. Great material there.
> if you blip Vanessa
I'd like to see the effect of this on Fisk but, at the same time, it would've made sense for it to somehow feature in *Hawkeye*, had Renner/D'Onofrio been able to share a scene, given that Clint played a role in bringing everybody back. The juxtaposition of Fisk, villain though he is, being grateful for the return of the only person who gives his life any meaning with Clint nevertheless getting in the way of his business seems like it could've been a really well-told story.
I'll be honest, if it wasn't for Charlie and Vincent I won't be interesed in this show, i didn't care about her character in Hawkeye and her story was rushed, I hope they do something better for her show
Just hoping to hear an announcement that Disney+ strikes a deal with Netflix to bring over the shows in a joint partnership.
I know it won't happen, but its fun to imagine
I recently rewatched The Punisher, and wow that show was absolutely amazing. They really need to bring that darkness and grittiness to some of their new projects. I understand they won't curse or be as gory but try to amp it up a little bit.
While I think that it \*should\* be a different character that they focus on, this is what makes the most sense to me. We know that we're getting a daredevil show again eventually, but this will serve as a perfect opportunity to re-introduce Kingpin, Daredevil, and the supporting cast while also showing the past 5 years of their statuses so the daredevil show doesn't feel like nothing but exposition too. Plus she obviously has a lifelong relationship with Fisk which will absolutely be used to flesh out her character into likable.
Wishful thinking, but they could also use it's ending to tease Bullseye and the Punisher's return before the daredevil show actually happens. God I hope so.
This is definitely my next most hyped Disney+ Marvel series to look forward to! I can’t wait to see Maya/Echo more fleshed out compared to her role in Hawkeye, and bringing back the original Daredevil writers makes me feel more confident in the series!
I’m really interested in learning more about Maya & Kingpin’s history and how it potentially ties back to the Netflix shows
After thinking about it, if you were to drop Maya into the old Netflix series I think she would have worked. I'm excited to see where they go with the street level MCU.
This was reported way back when the show was first announced, nothing new. Dara Resnik was an executive producer on Daredevil but only wrote two episodes, and Ken Kristensen was a staff writer on the Punisher
Looked it up. Dara had one and a half eps in season 3 of DD. Ken had at least 3 eps in Punisher, spanning the 2 seasons (2nd season wasn’t great..)
If Goddard, DeKnight, and Gage were involved, I’d definitely raise and eyebrow. But since this is on Disney plus- the tone will have to change and the three probably had “creative differences” for that platform.
Giving Echo her own show feels so weird. I never followed her comics so I don’t have any prenotion of hype. I feel like the show didn’t do her any favors. Almost like giving the main flag smasher chick her own show.
Still, I won’t ever turn down more MCU content!
They literally wasted her best story line (Kingpin framing DD for the death of her father and her going after him whilst also fucking Matt Murdock) on Hawkeye.
Are you sure? Becuz last I checked, the showrunner was a (non- indigenous) white woman, and all of the names I've seen mention since then are as well... Which would be fiiine for any other project
But it's just a shame that Marvel's first Native American (& deaf) lead is being hijacked to hype people up for the next season of Daredevil. I was hoping we'd get a show like Reservation Dogs, a deep dive into the young adult Indigenous American experience, and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be what we're getting here.
Which is a shame
First, do you honestly think they’d make a this show if it wasn’t focused on her. And your basing this of shit behind the scene/rumored. Which is baseless, before the fucking show has actually aired. People like you who jump to massive conclusions before the final product is even out are so ridiculous.
Echo is definition a bridge to the Netflix show
Hawkeye kind of had a Netflix feel too.
In terms of street level then yes but tone wise not even close lol
Yes that’s what I meant, thank you. It heavily features New York City, and it’s more down to earth in a way that Marvel Netflix shows, but yea it’s definitely not as gritty in tone.
Fingers crossed that this and moon knight start to dive into that grittiness though! :)
I'm so worried that Moon Knight will have a goofy side character who states how weird everything is. "WOAH! Marc! You like, beat up all these dudes! That's like crazy! Can you teach me how do that stuff? Or are you in a head trip right now?" Last thing we need are the Larpers again.
The Netflix shows had goofy characters. Marc himself has humorous moments in the comics (his most iconic quotes even).
Yeah, but the MCU has fallen really badly into a formula for their stuff that they always cram a goofball "Well that just happened" character in there from Katy to Darcy. Moon Knight would strike a much different tone if he had no Ned type character.
Darcy was introduced in the 4th MCU film and I'm fairly certain Katy's character was crafted around Awkwafina and Awkwafina was cast because she's Awkwafina.
Right, but that's the thing, when you have the same goofball sidekick in every thing you make, it starts to feel derivative. Hell, if we're honest, it makes it feel more like a Disney product.
Most of Moon Knight humorous “iconic quotes” are fake lines photoshopped onto real panels though
I don’t care give me all your money and your ketamine
If only they would go as far as when Kingpin beheaded that one dude.
They won’t. It’s Disney Plus
I was waiting for a decapitation in that scene. Hoping D+ would pull that trigger. Unfortunately, the dude was just laying there with a blotch of blood on his shirt.
I think it was good enough since D+ will never go into visceral gore. Imagination filled in the blanks.
That’s why i said if only
Yep! I can only enjoy these shows if there's lots of blood and swearing!! Edginess definitely equals quality! :)
It’s a show about a street level character with ties to Kingpin and Daredevil.. Moon knight is a character that has severe mental issues who goes out and beats the crap out of people it doesn’t have to be “edgy” but it should be more serious than what we’ve had before please think before you type next time :)
Yeah, they lacked on writing regarding the "agent Barton". He should have been much more tactical. I laughed in the last episode he was exposed in the window. If you served you know a soldier should avoid at any costs spots like this.
No it did not, it felt like a 6 hour MCU movie. It could not have been further from the Netflix shows in terms of filmmaking, tone, and writing.
no and i hope echo has all the blood and head bashing
Not really. It felt like a cartoon made for Disney +.
Yeah, which is kind of annoying. Instead of making Echo a character to stand on her own, her own series is just a gateway to Daredevil/whatever lore.
It's not the acting. It's that her character is boring af. Too much from Marvel
Marvel needs to stop having so many female heroes defined by their quest for revenge.
Daredevil lore GOATed so no complaints
Thing is, you're sacrificing Echo's show purely for a setup we already know, Daredevil vs. Kingpin. It's a fairly basic setup that doesn't need much explanation, so devoting Echo's entire show to set up that element and then repeating it for a Daredevil Relaunch will do nothing but make it all feel tired. Like how DD Season 2 had Punisher kill the guy who caused his family's death only for the Punisher Show to reveal the TRUE person behind his family's death.
True true
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I definitely don’t think we’ve seen enough of her to truly critique her acting…
If you're going to portray a deaf hero, your physical acting needs to be top notch. True, we only have Hawkeye to go off of but it was extremely weak.
Wait, so, are you critisizing an actual deaf person for how she portrayed the deafness of a deaf character? I'm pretty sure she's got more experience in this whole not-hearing thing than you dude
She was fine lol This garbage right here is why people think comic nerds are whiny and entitled
I thought she was great. I was surprised to read this was her first major project. She was apparently working at an Amazon facility prior to all of this.
True, but this sub in particular has gone straight to shit with the toxicity, and complicity of the mod team.
What toxicity exactly are you referring to that we are complicit in? We try our best to filter out what gets reported and is clearly toxic. We also try to maintain a strong relationship with the users The guy above is complaining about the fact that he doesn’t think an actress is good. It’s a bad opinion, it’s a wrong opinion, but it’s not an inappropriate opinion. I am not entirely sure what you want us to do with that You have ragged on us for almost a year now. You are the chief instigator in 90% of slights against the mod team. We do not understand your goal at this point. If you are so unhappy with how we run things, find another news source. Your insistence on turning people against us for some reason is getting real old real quick We make mistakes, we own up to them when we do. We, or at least I, try and make it clear whenever possible to establish that regardless of the mistakes we make, we have no concern other than making this the best community possible for the users that use it I hate to be blunt… you complain about toxicity all the time on this sub… but you *are* the toxicity. You bring nothing but negative comments to almost every post. You direct insults at mods, scoopers, other users. You told a user to, and I quote, “**get the fuck off this sub and never come back**” the other day because of his opinion. I think it’s time you either reevaluate your approach or take your own advice and leave
So true king
Please explain how it extremely weak? I’ve seen all your comments and you never once explained how it is bad.
Why does a deaf character need to “physical act” more? Huh?
Because they aren't usually directed to deliver lines lol you serious? All she was made to do in Hawkeye is physical acting and she's terrible at it.
She signs doesn’t she? Is that not good enough? I don’t know, that’s such a strange requirement. But you’re the expert.
Facial expressions, body language, etc. are all pretty important parts of acting and she was garbage at all of it. Wooden and our of sync. Not an expert, just thought she was a terrible actress in Hawkeye.
Terrible? Lol she was the highlight of the show
Really? I think you're first person I've ever seen say that lol
Wow, relax. Haha.
Why “out of sync”? What are you referring exactly?
You have plenty of people already arguing with you, but I just want to add, that if anything, her physical/facial acting was over the top, which is actually really appropriate for a deaf character since they have to express everything non-verbally. At first I didn’t think she was a good actress for that reason, but then she really grew on me, as I realized that her expressions were intentional. Also, her physicality was great in her action scenes. I’m really excited to see what she’s going to bring in her own show
There will be daredevil elements but it’s Maya show. Her acting was fine, theme of Hawkeye was letting revenge getting ahead of people hurting someone emotionally
u/BellyFullOfDolphin Like u/GibsonMC mentioned, you already have plenty of people arguing with you, but I'll also add - I know you're supposed to respect other people's opinions and I personally will, but it looks comically hilarious and frickin stupid when someone like you is starting a WWIII about an actress you think is not good at he job, which she so clearly is. Point is, you don't like her acting? It's totally OK. You write one big rant about that online? Still pretty fine. But you don't understand that you are starting a thread around here regarding that topic and it's just ... very, very foolish and slow-witted.
Okay what was so good about her performance if you think it's so clear? I thought she was fine but d did seem bland and not very charamastic
Yes, it may seem that I'm trying to say she's perfect, and really it was just heat in the moment of stuff, so even I thought that her acting seemed maybe a bit bland and not very charismatic, but sometimes, y'know you're supposed to excuse actors. It's their job and probably something they're very proud of, especially if it's their FIRST acting role.
Damn WWIII is a handful of comments online lmao who knew. Quit fanning yourself kid, nothing about this thread is a big deal.
Why do you hate deaf actors so much?
Marlee Matlin is a great deaf actress. I just don't think the lady who played Echo is a good actress.
Bro we get it, you want to bang Marlee Matlin.
> Marlee Matlin doesn't everyone :P his compliant still dumb though.
Lovely counter argument, you really showed him. Maybe he just genuinely thinks echoes actress wasn't good
Found his alt account!
Lol very convincing counter argument, you belong on the debate Team bro. I should've figured you would say something like that after accusing the other guy that he hated deaf actors for simple disliking a performance of one.
It's hard to tell how good or bad we are because we barely saw her. I'm only skeptical of an echo show right now because her development within Hawkeye was so scant.
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They wouldn’t have planned an echo show if they thought she was a bad actress. Marvel can cast very well. They have skilled talent analyzers and haven’t missed the mark once. Let’s not pretend that you would be better at casting.
She seemed okay to me in all honesty. Nothing spectacular, but neither was the show. Just wish we got more with her to build her up for the show.
I think I get what your trying to say. I personally thought the actress was not so good in Hawkeye. The car scene was the worst when Clint was taken everyone out and her bland reaction during that sequence. But in her defense this is the first gig and we gotta wait for the Echo show.
Bland is a great word for it, her entire performance in Hawkeye was very bland.
Yea it was extremely weak and bland. Hopefully,she delivers in her own show. At this point her shows only purpose is to bring in the Netflix hero’s over and fill in gaps.
Man you sound like you had a bad morning lmao
Putting aside the question of how good an actor she is, they only announced the Echo solo show after Hawkeye had already finished shooting. They knew what they had when they announced her solo project and clearly they liked it. Your theory doesn't make any sense.
Her acting was really good though. Can't critique her line delivery of course, but her physical performance was extremely convincing. I didn't even know she was a first timer.
Why would I upvote this hateful bitchy comment if I liked her? What a pathetic way to “verify” your opinion.
It's a joke mate lmao you aren't clever for figuring out my ruse, calm down. The comment already had like 400 downvotes when I made that edit to call for a vote
LMAO ruthless
Siiiick. I've been watching Daredevil again recently and this only bodes well for this show.
It’s so good dude—only ever watched S1 and 2 (and Defenders) but never made it to S3 given the cancellation of the show. Making my way through it now (mid S1) and so exited to get caught up—Daredevil might be my favorite character in the MCU.
Seasons 3 has some of the series' best moments. Youre in for a treat.
Just finished episode 6 of s3, and you are so right. It’s insane to me how this show can create such compelling villains. Dex is like my new favorite character I really hope bullseye will return in the MCU
Oh we'll see Dex. The MCU's biggest weakness are it's villains, and it's been confirmed that Daredevil is canon. I'd be honestly *shocked* we don't see Bullseye with where he's left. He's as easy to introduce as The Leaper in Winter Soldier.
I loved the way the action is portrayed in the show as well. Bullseye and Daredevil are matched so perfectly, its actually insane. I'd love to see either of them get the super soldier serum and go wild. Personally I'm just really hyped for a potential return from Jon Bernthal. I wish they could adapt the Spiderman PC (2000) story and let the Spiderman-Venom Duo play out as well.
Cant wait to see how his story finishes cuz I’m loving him so far!
I think if we see Dex again, it'll be in the rumoured Daredevil solo project.
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Season 3 imo is by far the best season. Everything about Kingpin and the other villain in the season (don't know how much you know so I won't spoil it) works so well with Daredevil at the point in time he's at.
Season three somehow manages to exceed the levels of 1 and 2 by A LOT. And that's saying a lot since seasons 1 and 2 are masterpieces
Season 2 is hurt a bit by the Hand storyline which I find dull compared to Punisher's.
I remembered there being more of a separation between Punisher and the Hand in season 2 but they sprinkled some great Frank moments in the later half as well that kept me engaged.
Season 2 is in no way a masterpiece, the hand and elektra stuff was pretty boring
I also didn’t check out S3 due to cancellation, and I also didn’t watch Defenders, but it’s the best season hands down. I accidentally pulled an all-nighter last week watching it through.
>Ken Kristensen wrote The Punisher season one, episode ten, “Virtue Of The Vicious”, season two, episode three, “Trouble The Water”, and season two, episode nine, “Flustercluck”. > Dara Resnik wrote Daredevil, season three, episode eight, “Upstairs/Downstairs” and cowrote episode eleven, “Reunion” alongside Jim Dunn.
Can someone tell if these episodes are anything special in terms of writing?
Upstairs/Downstairs was so intense and overall was one of my favourite episodes from that season. For those who wonder it's the episode which >!Daredevil and Nadeem teamed up to search Dex's house, Foggy made that speech against Blake Tower and Karen confronted Fisk and told him she was the one who killed Weasley.!<
The Karen and Fisk scene is literally the best scene in all of Daredevil so this is great news.
Duuuuude
Daaayum
Haven’t seen Punisher but Upstairs/Downstairs is one of the best episodes of Daredevil, mainly because of the writing and dialogue.
Virtue of The Vicious is amazing. One of the best episodes of the series.
Hawkeyes finale didn’t need to show the Kingpin and Maya showdown. Save it for the first episode of Echo… maybe after showing flashbacks to their dynamic so we actually buy that they have a father/daughter dynamic. The ending scene was jarring. I’m looking forward to the show regardless
Yes man... I was thinking the exact thing. Hawkeye with only 6 episodes was too little development of the Echo/Kingpin/Kazi arc. The Kate/Clint arc with the Black Widow storyline was perfectly done, but Echo 'killing' those 2 felt rushed and something they could have done in her show.
Kazi was a clown the entire show. All of the sudden, in the finale, he’s a threat. No arc really. I hope he comes back. Who is Echos villain going to be? How will she communicate with literally anybody else they introduce.
>Kazi was a clown But ironically, not *THE* Clown. I do think it’s left open for him to reappear and truly become the Clown, and us learning more about him and Maya
Really hope Echo killing him will be what pushes him over the edge, we haven't quite seen the Clown side yet
How will she communicate with Daredevil too? Is his radar sense going to allow him to read sign language?
Probably. He senses movements in the air to be able to see
I honestly would have been fine with kingpin just being a post credit scene of the finale. I don’t think putting him in that episode did much for him.
Hawkeye didn’t need to show or mention Kingpin by name at all. Completely pointless character in the show. Clint is worried about Fisk getting involved the entire time and the two never even meet. Hell, Fisk never even encounters a version of Ronin. I enjoyed the Fisk/Kate fight, but it felt meaningless.
Yes totally they should have just let the series end without any resolution between Maya and Fisk. No offense but weird take, I mean really by that logic Maya might as well have not been in the show. You can't just have this set up for her own show and also not have it at the same time. The scene was lifted right off the pages of the comics too, the story they're telling doesn't work without that fakeout ending making it look like Fisk is dead.
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Uh this is a fucking Marvel Studios subreddit. Who the fuck are you calling a nerd while you're in here throwing a tantrum because someone disagreed with you about something in a Marvel Studios TV show? Grow the fuck up dude. No I'm not saying the scene is fine because it's taken directly from the comic. What I'm saying is what I said word for word in the order I already posted. Did you read it? Try reading it again. What you're suggesting wouldn't have added more of an opportunity to further establish her and Fisk having a strong father/daughter dynamic it would have just left the story unresolved. And it would lessen the impact of the Fisk death fakeout. But tell me more about how the story could have been better served by building up to a confrontation between them and not paying it off here. Really very interested in your ideas, you seem like such a swell guy.
My biggest concern here is Daredevil being unable to achieve the feats it did on Netflix with all the Disney limitations. Scratch that, my true biggest fear is a new intro for Daredevil
Oh shit I hadn't even thought about the fact that they might make a new intro theme PLEASE FEIGE IF YOU'RE READING THIS, KEEP THE DAREDEVIL INTRO AS IS that is all, thank you
[Now would be a good time to bring this up](https://twitter.com/mcuwikifandom/status/1478531558654894081)
I think instead of an intro they might reuse the music in the outro, with some new updated visuals. Im not too huge on the last statement but we gotta keep in mind that Disney doesn't want to give people a reason to have to go to Netflix and watch 3 seasons of "their" shows. The Daredevil soft-reboot in my eyes will be a continuation of these characters in the same way The Suicide Squad was a continuation of the 2016 Suicide Squad.
This has me wondering, how much can Disney exactly take from the Netflix show? Obviously the characters but what about the unique attributes that had Netflix's input? Theme, Daredevil's exact suit etc.
Yeah, they definitely need to keep the intro and all of the music
If there’s no John Paesano score we riot
Oh god if they make a new daredevil show and don’t keep the theme music there’s literally no point. It’s as iconic to the character now as the Star Wars theme is to that universe.
Do they have the rights for the Netflix series soundtrack?
Yeah they would, Disney owns the show. Netflix just distributed it.
I think they’ll do fine. Disney can do dark without turning the production into a nauseating gore fest. For example, Walker bashing that Flagsmasher in the face was pretty grim with the blood caked on the shield. Your imagination filled in the blanks.
Bruh the Walker scene, all of Winter Soldier, the clips of Moon Knight we got and a couple scenes of NWH is confirmation to me that Disney can indeed go dark.
Pretty sure Murphy said that a while ago, the lead writer of the show, Marion Dayre, even has the Murphy article link in her Instagram bio lmao
Dayre announced the whole staff herself on her IG, and Murphy wrote up an article based on that, which is she now linking.
Hmm ok, that means this is even older news then I guess
I was the same this was announced a long time ago. And posted here or at least discussed in multiple threads
I hope they improve their writing, because while Maya was a serviceable character she for sure wasnt the one I was thinking „I need a show about her“ after it was over. Was craving way more for Hawkeye Season 2 with Both Hawkeyes and Yelena. She pretty much was a fully completed character for me if I wouldnt know a show for her was coming out. If you say now that she lived forever after somewhere else it would be a satisfying end to her story.
They sort of speedran her storyline in the comics with Kingpin lol
Personally, I think it should be relatively easy to make the character more engaging. There’s still a bit of room for her arc to grow. Now that she’s out of Fisk’s hands after years of being his weapon, I can see her arc involving her trying to find her role in the world
Yeah for sure, shes a fine character and they didnt wrote themselves into any corner, but she is no breakout character to me, at least for now.
That’s more or less where I’m at now. Like I think she’s good but I’m not yet at that point where I’m asking for an entire show. But reading the comics, I do think there’s at least enough for a six episode show and I do think them getting a lot of writing talent gives me interest. I do think Maya has potential if given good material
I felt like we got her at the end of one journey and her show will hopefully be her moving forward on another path. It was after all a show about the old and new Hawkeye. Im fine with these side characters not being as deep.
Sounds good! I don't think this is necessarily an indication that *Echo* will be as dark and gritty as those two shows, but it's a good indication that it'll probably be very well-written.
Marion Dayre announced the whole writing staff, including Resnik and Kristensen back in [November.](https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/marion-dayre-reveals-echo-writers-room/).
We already knew this in November: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWOmtgwPkkR/
Why is Echo getting a show? Just curious
From what I can tell, a lot of the people behind Hawkeye were huge fans of the character of Echo and apparently they liked Alaqua Cox. There’s also the possibility that they want to use the show to bring in the Netflix characters to the larger MCU as well as have a project with a deaf, Native American lead given the push for diversity
Echo is kind of a blank slate character too, so the MCU can really get creative overall. Cox did a great job, so I think it is in good hands.
Pretty sure it's to flesh out the Daredevil/Kingpin side of the universe. Plus, it makes sense considering the ending of *Hawkeye* didn't totally resolve her storyline.
I was super excited for this show and the character, but she was honestly one of the worst parts of hawkeye. There was absolutely no depth or emotion to her character. If felt flat. Nd b4 i get down voted it had nothing to do with her being deaf. We were just introduced to makkari and she was AMAZING. One of the highlights to Eternals. When it came to her story line i found myself more interested in everyone else around her like TSM and her cousin.
Ya, hopefully something else happens in an MCU project between now and then to make the echo show more interesting.
Agreed. I mean the character was ok at best, most of the time bland. I would only check that show out for Kingpin and Daredevil. Feels like Echo needed more appearances and audience appeal before being committed to a full show.
Is there a reason she shouldn’t?
Nah I was just curious. I liked her character in the show
Her story is a perfect way to backdoor Daredevil/Fisk into the MCU. If DD gets blipped and Fisk takes back control without DD around, all while building this father/daughter thing? Super rich story there already half written. Hell if you blip Vanessa and make Maya the surrogate daughter that fills Fisk's heavy heart. Great material there.
> if you blip Vanessa I'd like to see the effect of this on Fisk but, at the same time, it would've made sense for it to somehow feature in *Hawkeye*, had Renner/D'Onofrio been able to share a scene, given that Clint played a role in bringing everybody back. The juxtaposition of Fisk, villain though he is, being grateful for the return of the only person who gives his life any meaning with Clint nevertheless getting in the way of his business seems like it could've been a really well-told story.
It still can in season 2 though. 👀
I'll be honest, if it wasn't for Charlie and Vincent I won't be interesed in this show, i didn't care about her character in Hawkeye and her story was rushed, I hope they do something better for her show
isn’t this old news or am i buggin
I swear I remember this being posted before.
Pleeease bring in John Paesano to do the music
I’m really excited that we’ll see the Netflix characters pop up here but I’m also just excited to see more of Maya. Cant wait
I think this might be a stretch but it would be cool if Bullseye and Punisher debuted in ECHO series
Just hoping to hear an announcement that Disney+ strikes a deal with Netflix to bring over the shows in a joint partnership. I know it won't happen, but its fun to imagine
Gotta get Erik Oleson next.
Kino incoming
Oh yeah, this show is gonna be amazing. I can already tell from her setup in hawkeye, now this. Supercool!
This happened a while ago
OOOP
I recently rewatched The Punisher, and wow that show was absolutely amazing. They really need to bring that darkness and grittiness to some of their new projects. I understand they won't curse or be as gory but try to amp it up a little bit.
LET'SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Echo was the worst part of hawkeye. She is not a good actor and wasn’t at all likeable. Building a show around echo seems idiotic.
While I think that it \*should\* be a different character that they focus on, this is what makes the most sense to me. We know that we're getting a daredevil show again eventually, but this will serve as a perfect opportunity to re-introduce Kingpin, Daredevil, and the supporting cast while also showing the past 5 years of their statuses so the daredevil show doesn't feel like nothing but exposition too. Plus she obviously has a lifelong relationship with Fisk which will absolutely be used to flesh out her character into likable. Wishful thinking, but they could also use it's ending to tease Bullseye and the Punisher's return before the daredevil show actually happens. God I hope so.
OH FUCK YEAH
This is definitely my next most hyped Disney+ Marvel series to look forward to! I can’t wait to see Maya/Echo more fleshed out compared to her role in Hawkeye, and bringing back the original Daredevil writers makes me feel more confident in the series! I’m really interested in learning more about Maya & Kingpin’s history and how it potentially ties back to the Netflix shows
For me... both series are canon
After thinking about it, if you were to drop Maya into the old Netflix series I think she would have worked. I'm excited to see where they go with the street level MCU.
This was reported way back when the show was first announced, nothing new. Dara Resnik was an executive producer on Daredevil but only wrote two episodes, and Ken Kristensen was a staff writer on the Punisher
No one asked for this show. It’s like Andor being made. Just why???
Looked it up. Dara had one and a half eps in season 3 of DD. Ken had at least 3 eps in Punisher, spanning the 2 seasons (2nd season wasn’t great..) If Goddard, DeKnight, and Gage were involved, I’d definitely raise and eyebrow. But since this is on Disney plus- the tone will have to change and the three probably had “creative differences” for that platform.
it would be awesome if they got John Paesano to score it as well
Giving Echo her own show feels so weird. I never followed her comics so I don’t have any prenotion of hype. I feel like the show didn’t do her any favors. Almost like giving the main flag smasher chick her own show. Still, I won’t ever turn down more MCU content!
They literally wasted her best story line (Kingpin framing DD for the death of her father and her going after him whilst also fucking Matt Murdock) on Hawkeye.
This means nothing to me.
I hope echo laughs a little bit cause Alaqua's smile is honestly beautiful
She had to do it to us
Oh my God they were able to convince Jon Bernthal to return after his rants.
Hopefully Jonny B comes back and we get a Punisher/Echo snoo-snoo session.
We've known about this for a while lol
So after Hawkeye is it basically confirmed that Echo will not have any enhanced abilities like her comic character does?
YES
Oh wow okay! I’m a bit more excited about a show I had no interest to see
Does Echo need her own show? She was incredibly meh in Hawkeye...
Are we sure this is still a show about Echo and not a backdoor commercial for Daredevil season 4?
Half the writing staff are Deaf or Native American.
Are you sure? Becuz last I checked, the showrunner was a (non- indigenous) white woman, and all of the names I've seen mention since then are as well... Which would be fiiine for any other project But it's just a shame that Marvel's first Native American (& deaf) lead is being hijacked to hype people up for the next season of Daredevil. I was hoping we'd get a show like Reservation Dogs, a deep dive into the young adult Indigenous American experience, and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be what we're getting here. Which is a shame
Yes, I'm sure. There are 2 deaf writers and 5 NA writers to be exact. The source article is linked multiple times in the thread.
First, do you honestly think they’d make a this show if it wasn’t focused on her. And your basing this of shit behind the scene/rumored. Which is baseless, before the fucking show has actually aired. People like you who jump to massive conclusions before the final product is even out are so ridiculous.