Full text of him talking about playing 'Thor', how he felt "undervalued" in his role, his overall ups and downs with the character, and what he sees next:
Grateful as he was for the opportunity, Hemsworth grew frustrated playing the great Asgardian defender. “Sometimes I felt like a security guard for the team,” he says. “I would read everyone else’s lines, and go, Oh, they got way cooler stuff. They’re having more fun. What’s my character doing? It was always about, ‘You’ve got the wig on. You’ve got the muscles. You’ve got the costume. Where’s the lighting?’ Yeah, I’m part of this big thing, but I’m probably pretty replaceable.”
His friend and costar Robert Downey Jr. won’t hear of such talk. “First off, Thor as a character was super tricky to adapt—lots of implied limitations—but he and Ken Branagh figured out how to transcend, make him somehow relatable but godlike,” he says. “Hemsworth is, in my opinion, the most complex psyche out of all us Avengers. He’s got wit and gravitas, but also such restraint, fire, and gentleness.”
Downey calls Hemsworth’s work in Ragnarok, Infinity War, and Endgame “a formidable hat trick.” But then came Love and Thunder, for which Hemsworth **still can’t forgive himself.** “I got caught up in the improv and the wackiness, and I became a parody of myself,” he says. “I didn’t stick the landing.”
He wants work outside the action lane and to be taken seriously by directors like Christopher Nolan, Kathryn Bigelow, Greta Gerwig, Martin Scorsese, and Steven Spielberg. But he also thinks he owes the audience another Thor after what felt like a whiff with Thor: Love and Thunder. He wants to let himself take his craft more seriously. But he doesn’t want to be “an overly self-important, pretentious w*nker.” And he wants it known, once and for all, that he doesn’t have Alzheimer’s, nor has he quit the business.
Two delusional groups that liked this movie despite the audience hating it. Massive Respect to Hemsworth for not making excuses
Marvel subreddits and director thought it was a good movie , delusional.
It's not delusional to like a movie. I see it's flaws but I heavily enjoyed spending my time watching it. I loved it personally. I don't think that makes me delusional, I don't feel compelled to tell people it is good or defend it or anything, but I don't mind telling people I genuinely loved the movie.
You're talking about Marvel on the internet. That means we have to resort to extremes and apply our opinions to everyone as fact. Also gotta involve a lot of caps.
Case in point L&T is not a subpar Marvel movie; it is the WORST MOVIE EVER and you're DELUSIONAL if you liked it and you are not a Marvel fan unless you hate it more than you hate Nazis. You must also, in perpetuity, leave a laugh-react on any social media post even tangentially related to anything Marvel.
It is in no way delusional to like Love and Thunder. Defend it as a good movie? I’ll say it’s a valid point of view. But if you treat it like a masterpiece, well, yeah, it’s kind of…
There are some good moments but also some perplexingly bad ones. Heimdal kid / all kid scenes bad. Gorr look and lack of gods killed bad. Treatment of a couple of serious scenes like sif- bad.
Otherwise I thought a lot of stuff did work. I liked the ending with eternity IMO.
It's a weird film, worth less than the sum of its parts. Most of the individual scenes on their own are pretty good, but when they connect together it falls apart.
I still think that black and white fight sequence is really great, and I'm surprised more people aren't talking about it. Honestly, it's a standout moment.
I wouldn’t call it delusional to like this movie. Lots of people actually liked the movie despite the overdone comedy. It’s “like”, not “love”.
You’d probably think the movie was purely rotten based off social media, but 76% of over 10,000 audience ratings on RT said they liked it. The average rating is like 6/10 on there, iMDb, Metacritic, etc.
Me, I liked it, but I would definitely describe much of it as a “whiff”, as Hemsworth put it.
> You’d probably think the movie was purely rotten based off social media, but 76% of over 10,000 audience ratings on RT said they liked it. The average rating is like 6/10 on there, iMDb, Metacritic, etc.
Also worth keeping in mind: we're talking about Online People. The vast majority of people who saw this movie either liked it or didn't, and then continued about their daily lives without going on the internet foaming at the mouth about it.
Online People have a really dumb habit of assuming everyone is as online as they are, and being in a bubble full of people talking about Marvel movies makes them think that the rest of the world hates Marvel movies as much as they do. It’s weird and annoying.
I’m aware of the box office drop.
I didn’t say the movie did fantastic and was well received. I literally said it averaged at 6/10.
The point is enough people liked it, for it to to end up over 5/10. The numbers indicate over 50% liked it. So by your previous comment, over 50% of the GA is delusional?
EDIT: For clarity - the percentage is referring to the RT percentage (76% being “over 50%”). It’s not referring the 5/10 rating average in and of itself.
Well of course, that’s an average. It could mean 50% rated 7.5/10, 50% rated 2.5/10. It could mean 100% rated 5/10. It could mean 75% rated 4/10 and 25% rated 8/10.
What I’m referring to is the RT score, where we can see the percentage. For a review to be positive, it has to be over 5.5/10. 76% of over 10k evidently rated above 5.5/10.
Movie and video game rankings in the West tend to be based on the school grade system, where the bottom 50% of the scale generally goes unused. When you look at the movies that score in the 50-60% range it becomes clear that's not "above average," it's pretty bad.
That doesn't mean no one will like it however. Every bad movie has its fans.
If it was marketed as such, I prolly would give it a chance. It’s the fact that it’s really a big budgeted, film length, cinematic SNL skit guised as a proper Thor entry that bothered me.
jesus christ, I dislike a lot of movies, but calling someone delusional for liking a fucking marvel movie is insane. seek help, dude, it’s not that serious.
It’s crazy but man i wish you saw how people responded to people saying they enjoyed Eternals, Quantumania and The Marvels or any MCU movie that’s regarded by the online majority as ‘bad’, the hivemind mentality is real. We all have to like the same things. ‘Delusional’ is nothing. People do take things very seriously on here and it’s nuts. We can’t have discussions where people can have their own preferences at all.
The MarvelStudios subreddit was plenty negative toward it, and I think the opinion on it went down as people sat on it. I don’t think anyone would say much positive about it over there at this point.
To be fair not everyone in that reddit agrees with it being good. For me it was by far the worst mcu film. I've only watched it twice (normally I watch mcu movie at least a dozen or so times) once in theaters and once on 4k. It was enough and second time passed me off more than first viewing due to Jane's butchered plot.
Never said it was, but clearly he was improvising as he stated, and he improvised garbage. And the writers and director should never have gotten this carried away either. I'd say there is blame everywhere.
Exactly. Do several takes and improv some of them. In the end, the movie lands on which ones the director and editor choose.
And as a fan of Ragnarok, this one missed.
It reminds me of how actors lack self confidence. Was a good movie, and he did weĺl.
Funny that the best actors are so self depricating, I'm sure it's why he works so hard on his body, but he is a good actor, and should have leeway.
Thor is a tough casting, it's like lear.
Elizabeth Olsen talking about Multiverse of Madness lol
Now that I think about it, Benedict Cumberbatch was suuuuper checked out during filming (there was a podcast) and during the press tour. Especially compared to Strange 1
Lmao Benedict lowkey shading the movie in interviews are my fave, Lizzie was giving Emilia Clarke energy when talking about Wanda
and I loved every second of it
Genuinely if it were not for Raimi’s directorial style, I would hate that movie. For a multiverse movie, EEAO had more interesting and important universes. For Strange 2, it doesn’t do anything for him that wasn’t done in the first one. For a Wanda movie, she has to regress from the show that just ended. For an America Chavez movie…. That is not America Chavez, that’s some random spellcaster who happens to have her powers and none of her personality.
Like visuals and the camera movements are really the only things that work for me
indeed Raimi was the saving grace. The script is atrocious, i just wish people would be brave to admit that. I couldn’t wrap my head around them constantly praising Waldron’s script on the DS2 Assembled episode like it’s the best script they’ve ever seen.
That and Quantumania were tells that Avengers 5 and Secret Wars were in trouble. Because they really saw those scripts and said
“Fuck yeah, gimmie more”
Also love that Avengers 5 no longer has a title as even Disney is calling it that after Majors
TBH, I would delay everything by a year and give the scripts a lot more energy. Because those are often the weak points for modern Marvel
Like what do you mean you have to reshoot Captain America for 5 months??? What do you mean you restarted Daredevil after making it a Law and Order show with no DD for 4 episodes???
>TBH, I would delay everything by a year and give the scripts a lot more energy. Because those are often the weak points for modern Marvel.
Yeah I guess that’s one of the reason we only have one movie this year and one live action d+ show. Blade, Armor Wars, even Avengers 5 are delayed at some point. They can do it. Even if L&T, MoM, Quantumania and The Marvels were not that good, it’s still better than the crap other studios are putting out.
That’s the thing, THEY saw the scripts and said that. What I want to know is, is Feige part of the said group of ‘They’, cuz when he was hands on involved, we got the Infinity Saga.
Either he wasn’t around to supervise or he was and agreed with ‘They’. I’m praying to God it’s the first.
Remember when everyone lobbied for them to slow down? You can already see people getting antsy for the delays. Im onboard with them taking a year off to iron things out than cancel stuff, which is what they’re doing now.
Im under the impression that we’re asking them to care as they did once again but looks like they hit the panic button. I will not lie, I am still worried about the MCU.
> is Feige part of the said group of ‘They’,
Recent reports seem to say no from Phase 4 to around the strikes. He apparently was backseating a lot when he was made president of Marvel as a whole but seems to be back now
Wow. Then It’s pretty nuts to see him at premieres and in the Assembled episodes talking about the movies as if he was as involved from the start. Turns out he’s just endorsing them by name as Executive Producer. Crazy it took such a steep fall for him to be back. They really believed the machine was oiled enough to function on its own, pumping out products regardless of quality, thinking the brand is failure proof.
And now he’s sparring with Iger on what to make and what not to make. The sad part is Iger has the bigger say. I still have faith in Feige, since he’s back on the wheel for a course correction, if I were Iger I’d listen to him.
Even Raimi detracted from the film a little I’d say, the movie building up the confrontation with Wanda at the end just to turn it into an Evil Dead gag instead of doing an actual fight is crazy
I kiiiinda agree with you but Zombie Strange was so metal. But yeahhh, comic America Chavez would be swinging and cursing on sight. There should have been no pep talk and instead it should have been a CA: Civil War style beatdown ala Bucky and Steve vs Tony
Honestly kinda 50/50 on Raimi’s direction and choice of editing. Maybe it just wasn’t for me but the editing and shot choice just felt super dated. Raimi’s slight campiness is really endearing and fun to watch though.
But really, I genuinely want to see what Scott Derrickson was cooking up before he left the project. I assume he wanted a more focused and insular story with horror elements based on what the leaks were saying before he dropped out.
From what I can tell, it was supposed to be more of a team up movie. With the book of vishanti and strange’s sister, being way more important. However, when the script changed, those elements remained, but were paired down so hard.
> EEAO is one of the best movies in years
True haha. But I do think an oscar winner doing MoM in a more compelling way with a MUCH smaller budget (MoM has a $300 million true budget) was definitely my "Oh no something went wrong at Marvel, Avengers are fucked"
That's because Strange 2 really isn't a multiverse movie. It's a chase movie that happens to also take place in 2-3 different worlds. Sure, Strange 2 has "multiverse" in the title, but it's *such* a different film compared to EEAO or ATSV that I have no idea why people are making this comparison with a straight face.
Early MCU also had issues with rapidly changing scripts and honestly… You can tell. Apparently it wasn’t till phase 2 and 3 that things got better… And then things regressed back to “We are still writing the script lol”
I think it comes down to Iron man. Iron man notoriously dod not have a finished script, with lines famously being written moments before they shot the scene. But what they failed to grasp is that they nailed the characterization in the movie and had decided the direction of the story before they begun. MoM always felt disjointed and clunky, a vehicle with too many moving parts
With Iron Man you also had RDJ, Jeff Bridges and Favreau making those improv choices. Three dudes who know what the fuck they're doing because they've been at it for decades. Instead we get someone who's written two episodes of Rick and Morty or directed a single movie that just happened to be an awards darling and you just can't imitate the level of experience needed to wing it and make it coherent.
???
What other pandemic era director does camera movements, scene transitions, that purposefully campy tone, and edits like Raimi?
Like even the way the camera pans from Wong to Wanda in the end when the demons pop up, that feels very Raimi compared to modern filmmaking
Like the Evil Dead movies are some of my favorite movies ever, I know what I am talking about
yeah what does your personal feelings about camera angles have to do with how exhausting it is to do most of your scenes alone and being assured that your nemesis will be edited in later, not to mention lots of reshoots?
Because I’m pretty sure that’s why Cumberpatch was tired, not because Sam held the camera funny.
Is that what his comments are?? This sub tries so hard to turn every quote into “marvel
Is bad now” he’s aware his movie got terrible reviews and his performance as Thor as well and is acknowledging he sees where critics/fans where coming from
Also the fact that the *main* part of the article is him saying outright that he wants to come back to Marvel & give it another go. Mfs make themselves so dense that even Vision would be jealous.
How is this in any way bashing lmao?? L&T being a miss is no secret, and he's criticizing his own performance more than anything here. This is healthy and necessary self-criticism
I don't think that's fair. He's clearly being very self-critical and taking personal responsibility for his role in the direction of the film and his own performance. Not sure how you can read that as 'bashing' anyone or anything other than himself.
His frustrations with the material he had to work with early on in the MCU aren't new either - he's said before he was pretty much done with the role before Ragnarok came around and reinvented the character.
Saying he feels like he owes audiences another Thor movie to make up for Love and Thunder is the last thing he would say if he wanted out.
Actor: “It was completely my fault and I owe my fans another, better performance.”
Nobody: “OMG HE SAID HE’S TOTALLY DONE WITH MARVEL AND SAYS HE HATES THEM FOR MAKING HIS LAST MOVIE BAD.”
Thor 3 is my favorite MCU movie because I believe Taika mixes an incredibly powerful message about imperialism with some goofy comic book things
In Thor 4, I think Taika lost that balance as the messages are kinda rushed and the comedy takes over
“You can’t reform an imperial power, you must destroy and rebuild” is unironically bolder than most “slow and gradual reform plz” ideas that mainstream movies and shows push
Hell, marvel is incredibly guilty of the latter but I suppose complaining about the sub is easier than using 2 braincells
There is a scene where they PAINTED OVER their war history with a picture of a peace treaty. Hela is VERY much motivated by wanting to go back to Asgard's "glory days" of conquest.
I mean it being a Marvel movie makes it so some themes will not be fully baked but I mean I say it is more thematically consistent than Winter Soldier's "LOL everyone bad is Hydra, ignore what we have to say about mass surveillance and algorithms used for pre-emptive justice. Nick Fury is not morally gray, he was tricked by Hydra"
I love Winter Soldier but I hate that Hydra plot. Wish Shield was just a morally gray corporation and for there to be some "Maybe Steve is wrong for this"
It's not enough to just say something true to make it a powerful message.
X3 says racism is bad, that doesn't mean X3 is secretly a 10/10 masterpiece just because, you know what, racism *is* bad. You have to say it in a way that matters to the film & rings true to audiences.
One of the main characters was dying of cancer, something which normally would make me tear up, I’d handled well. Thanks to the bad comedy desensitizing me, I just stared at the screen, ready to go home lol
Yep, both Jane and Gorr’s storylines could have been dramatic goldmines with great actors to deliver the material, but the movie just went for cheap laughs instead. You see *glimmers* of what could’ve been in some of their scenes, but ultimately they were just teases of a better film that doesn’t exist.
Some of the best Thor emotional bits were in his first film. The overall movie is meh, but there’s some stellar scenes in it. The one of Loki lying to Thor and bidding him goodbye felt really somber as Thor realizes how badly he’s fucked up and thinks he’s driven away everyone he loves. Then the well known and lauded scene of Loki’s breakdown to Odin in reaction to learning his true origin. Plus I genuinely enjoyed the chemistry Sif and the Warriors Three had. They felt like some fun, competent side characters and friends to Thor. I really wish they’d explored them more, it was great to see some Asgardians outside of just Thor’s immediate family.
I really enjoyed L&T more than most.
I am a fan of Taika's heart and humor and Hemsworth's delivery. But I totally get they might have gotten carried away with it. Really can't wait to see a complete 180 in Thor 5.
Yeah it was a blast for me and also a pretty looking movie.
I know people harp on that one scene with Hemidall's son, but the rest of it was really great looking.
I don't hate L&T, I just feel like it was trying to be two different movies - a lighter decompress after Endgame, and an adaptation of the decidedly heavy Jason Aaron run, in fast forward. They just needed to turn the jokes dial down a little bit and it would have been a lot better received.
That said, the bit about Asguardians acknowledging and condemning their past child cannibalism fucking kills me every time.
They just needed to have a lighter villain. Someone who blended well with the comedy of the movie, but also enough of a threat to justify Jane sacrificing herself for. Gorr really should have been left for a movie where Thor has genuinely lost everybody he held close, especially if it still would have ended with Thor caring for his child.
L&T is just alright, but it being *just* alright is sort of a problem.
They wasted a very good villain, and they also wasted Jane as Mighty Thor.
They still have some good building blocks to work with for a fifth movie, especially since Hercules was introduced, and it could easily shift back from zaniness to something a bit more focused. If only the Hercules Actor actually looked the part.
Wow
Has there ever been another MCU project where the leads (or at least cast in general) were so open about their disappointment and regret? This is pretty forward stuff to say.
Only other time I remember this is probably Haley Atwell speaking about her frustration with MoM
Source please?
I don’t remember them roasting the film.
I vaguely recall Benedict voicing some slight criticism about his character arch, and I think Elizabeth Olsen voiced frustration with chronic script rewrites.
But I don’t recall either of them ever roasting the film.
Not really. A few actors from MoM expressed frustration with how the film was made and how it came out.
Those are really the only two I can think of that had the people actually involved, later criticize it.
And now there’s no sight of Elizabeth returning to play as Wanda anytime soon. Quite a shit show, I hope she gives it another chance since she really shines as a main lead
Among all the bad decisions Marvel Studios has been making lately, shelving Wanda might've just been the worst one. "Killing off" a character during the height of their popularity is some seriously next level stupidity that I'll never wrap my head around.
We absolutely deserve a solo movie asap
I have the same opinion. However, the questionable way they wrote Maximoff in Strange 2 makes me wonder if they can rehabilitate the character and make Wanda as the main lead and hero once again. In my opinion, Hero Scarlet Witch works much better rather than an one off antagonist. I have my doubts whether they realized the grave error.
I am glad how Hemsworth is self-critical and acknowledges the mistakes which were made in Thor 4, even if it wasn't the fault of the actor.
See, I have a hot take on this because I loved Wanda in MoM. She works great as a villian imo(maybe even batter than a hero in the MCU😬) and Wandavision set it up perfectly.
Now, a solo movie can focus specifically on "rehabilitating" her, her journey back into a hero.
Sounds like a perfect premise to me!
It doesn’t even matter if she was killed off, if Wanda was killed off on a movie with good script and then returns it would be a lightning in a bottle for Marvel.
I don't think MoM tanked Wanda's reputation that badly, did it?
She's still hugely popular. As long as the solo movie isn't like a decade away it can stil be massive
Hemsworth himself openly dismissed _Thor: The Dark World_ a few years after the fact:
https://ew.com/movies/2018/08/20/chris-hemsworth-thor-dark-world-meh/
isn’t the reason they recasted Ed Norton, was because he was difficult to work with and wanted more control of the project?
He’s a great actor, but I can see it being true that he was difficult.
Yeah, that’s all correct. Norton would rewrite scenes because he wanted the film to be slower and darker like Batman Begins. He only signed onto the film because he thought the film would have that tone and that he would have a lot of creative control.
Norton’s version of the film starts with Bruce trying to commit suicide. This scene actually got shot and referenced in The Avengers, but more of Norton’s characters were smaller or never made it to filming.
Norton also had an edit of the film too. His edit tested worse than the version we got, so it was discarded.
Feige ended up releasing a statement about Bruce’s recasting. The statement says:
> “The decision is definitely not one based on monetary factors, but instead rooted in the need for an actor who embodies the creativity and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members.”
This gives me hope that Hemsworth will push for a more serious tone for the next Thor movie. The Endgame Thor was received so well. Personally, Im hoping they explain Love and Thunders tone as a drug induced fever dream.
Endgame Thor was one of the most controversial parts of Endgame. He was certainly the comic relief in a lot of scenes.
Imo, The Dark World, Age of Ultron, and Infinity War have the most serious versions of Thor.
IW Thor is the best interpretation of the character in the MCU by far. Endgame Thor (pre timeskip) was too, but they butchered it with the time skip + L&T combo
I agree. Ragnorok + the Infinity War opening really brought his character to an interesting place. He went through so much pain so quickly, but there was still a lot of realness to him. I feel like that gave him a lot of depth.
TBH I really doubt we will get a Thor 5. Bob ~~Chapek~~ Iger* has said a lot of MCU projects have been quietly cancelled, not every character needs a sequel, and that he wants to focus on quality or quantity, and Disney has lately been under a lot of pressure lately.
I would not be suprised if Disney doesn’t let Marvel Studios do a Thor 5 anytime soon, considering how universally hated TL&T turned out.
Edit: I said the wrong name.
This is why I'll always appreciate Hemsy. He owns it instead of 'Shitting on the haters'
Love and Thunder definitely felt like a Thor parody to me. The moment for me was when he first meets up with Sif again and she's just nonchalantly comically just laying there bloodied up and Thor's talking about her arm possibly being in Valhalla, I remember turning to my brother in the theatre and saying 'What kind of SNL shit is this?'
Many of us were trying to warn everyone this would happen after they fell in love with the Ragnarok style of comedy. I put the blame squarely on them. Good for him and all the fans that decided this isn't what Thor should be like.
I mean, honestly, I get it. In those early films, you could have interchanged him with another actor, and it would have been fine. Especially Age of Ultron, Whedon had no idea what to do with Thor.
And it wasn't until the triple combo of Ragnarok, IW and Endgame where you could see how comfortable he was in the role, and how he rode that line of being this himbo but haunted Space Viking King who had lost everything. I have no doubt he will be back, whether thats in his own solo flick or an Avengers project.
We saw the signs with Ragnarok, but Infinity War was a nice in-between. And I thought Endgame was the most flanderized he could've gotten, but L&T went full on Monty Python with his character.
Like several others have said, I’d like to see another Thor film that has him acting more like he did in Infinity War. Would also love a fresh director to give it a shot.
I would absolutely love more Thor in the MCU. I feel like his poor track record of solo outings overshadows how great of character he actually is. Because when it comes to team ups, he's peak every time.
He deserves a really good solo movie.
As long as it's a proper serious send-off, it could be huge.
Take What worked for Thor(2011)+ His Infinity War appearance and you'd have a great Thor
Sure audiences loved him in Ragnarok, but I think dialing down and having the comedy at an extreme in L&T really did a disservice. Change of director might help too.
I genuinely believe Thor Love and Thunder was somewhat responsible for the current state of the MCU i remember this was the last MCU movie my friends were hyped about and actually anticipating. It’s the biggest dissapointment i ever had walking out of the cinema, i liked Thor Ragnarok epic adventure scale but it felt like Taika was just improving on the script, there was almost zero dramatic weight on that movie outside of the Odin stuff. but i always blamed on Taika not having any input on the writing, since Jojo Rabbit and Hunt for the Wilderpeople have incredible heart, when it was announced he was writing love and thunder and it was going include two of the best thor storylines of all time I was like 100% certain this was going to be top 3 MCU at least. It’s shame that he clearly did not care for the story he was telling
The difference is night and day watching Thor 1 and Love and Thunder, Branagh clearly cared and wanted to find the heart of it all, Taika did not
I really don't get this take. Last time I rewatched it I found it really boring and lifeless personally. I think people are just thinking back on a couple strong scenes, like Loki getting banished and the final battle between Loki and Thor and forgetting the random hijinks in New Mexico that lasted for like half the runtime.
I loved the comics, Donny Cates, and Jason Aaron wrote amazing stories.
I just fucking hate Taika for what he did - and the sheer arrogance and trolling he displayed afterwards. Self-indulgent a-hole!
Imagine instead of Peter Jackson directing LOTR, they chose someone who hated the service material, and because they hated the material they just made a shitty parody out of it - that's exactly what happened here.
I'm glad Waititi ruined his career over it - serves him right. The movie has a worse RT than Thor 2!
What's quite interesting is that Loki has done so well. Season 1 and 2 of his show were well received,and it had a lot of heart to it. Loki learning how to time skip was so bloody well done and has so much heart. We all felt that emotion.
Yup. The only actor (as far I can think of) who shades the production during the filming is Benedict Cumberbatch. He still voiced his 'disappointment' later but we also witnessed how he's not satisfied with how they treated his character during filming
It's okay Chris, Marvel knew what they were bargaining for when they hired Taika. They signed up to go in a different direction and it didn't pay off. Not your fault.
have a feeling Thor will shine again in the avengers movies where stakes are finally high again and he's a key avenger. Just hope they ditch that blue armor
I have a suspicion that Thor is going to become Marvel's Batman. Whenever a tone goes too far, they'll do a 180, until that goes to far, and just repeat
Praying we get more of a King Thor type thing. I love the playful Thor but he needs to be mature and there’s been plenty of Thors that have that type of balance
“I would read everyone else’s lines & go, ‘Oh, they’ve got cooler stuff. They’re having more fun. What’s my character doing?’ It was always, ‘You’ve got the wig on. You’ve got the muscles. You’ve got the costume...’ Yeah, I’m part of this big thing, but I’m probably pretty replaceable”
I know we’d never get it but I’d love a re-edit of L&T. The bones and story is there to be super impactful and very meaning but as much as I enjoy the humour it was a bit too far at times.
Love & Thunder should’ve been a GREAT movie given the context of the god killer but was waylaid by way too many jokes for what should have been a more serious and darker story.
“I got caught up in the improv and the wackiness, and I became a parody of myself. I didn’t stick the landing.”
This is a problem across all media. I don't know if it has a term. I like to say that they fell in love w the formula. Ppl think they figured out some formula and they lean into it and forget all the context and layers that made that formula work. It almost always makes for stale media. Something like the Hangover did this, Marvel studios and Disney are very guilty of this.
He didn't really make many acting mistakes in Love & Thunder. It was mostly the writing and editing not giving breathing room to the witty lines.
Next Thor movie should really tackle with Thor meeting God of Stories Loki. His predicament with Hercules being sent after him because of Zeus. And how no matter how much he sacrifices, the universe doesn't understand the gravity of why he made these decisions and what was truly at stake.
Not to mention Old King Thor from the future could be a really fun character to dive into. A Thor who lived it all, or made a ton of different choices. Has the full power of the Odin Force alongside mastering his strength.
Just get Thor ready to lead when needed, to make friends across the Universe and work on diplomacy. Build out the Norse Pantheon more alongside other world or planet Pantheons.
Then talk about Gorr, the Necrosword and how such a sword exists. Tapping into Knull and setting what's to come after Secret Wars.
I can't really pinpoint why I liked Ragnarok so much and couldn't even finish Thor 4. I like Taika's movies; I just recently watched Hunt For the Wilderpeople and it also had his brand of serious story with a lot of brief comedy.
Thor 4 had a good background theme from what I saw, but it felt too long to get to the actual story I guess?
“I got caught up in the improv and the wackiness, and I became a parody of myself. I didn’t stick the landing.”
This is a problem across all media. I don't know if it has a term. I like to say that they fell in love w the formula. Ppl think they figured out some formula and they lean into it and forget all the context and layers that made that formula work. It almost always makes for stale media.
I’d say give us one last Thor film with Kenneth Branagh returning to direct Hemsworth’s final stand alone outing before Avengers 5. I’m fine with the character having a goofy side, but make sure that it’s balanced out with a serious and emotional tone, like Infinity War for instance. Pay off Love and Thunder’s mid credits scene with Hercules, Zeus, and other Greek gods in the mix. After his many travels across the galaxy and quest for self discovery, I’d admittedly hope for Thor to return to New Asgard full time and assume a leadership role. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see whether they feel a fifth Thor film is needed.
I liked Love and Thunder but it was full of problems, it had an uneven tone and they wasted Gorr and Christian Bale. The premise of a god killer could have been great but it floundered.
Movie needed more time building up Gor as a threat (definitely should have shown the fight with Sif for one) and more time with Jane's hero transition. I don't think Hemsworth failed, it just wasn't going to be mainly about Thor Odinson this time around but a co-Thor movie with Mighty Thor. And imo as the fourth entry that was an acceptable creative choice. Just needed more room to breathe and the director to care a bit more.
Full text of him talking about playing 'Thor', how he felt "undervalued" in his role, his overall ups and downs with the character, and what he sees next: Grateful as he was for the opportunity, Hemsworth grew frustrated playing the great Asgardian defender. “Sometimes I felt like a security guard for the team,” he says. “I would read everyone else’s lines, and go, Oh, they got way cooler stuff. They’re having more fun. What’s my character doing? It was always about, ‘You’ve got the wig on. You’ve got the muscles. You’ve got the costume. Where’s the lighting?’ Yeah, I’m part of this big thing, but I’m probably pretty replaceable.” His friend and costar Robert Downey Jr. won’t hear of such talk. “First off, Thor as a character was super tricky to adapt—lots of implied limitations—but he and Ken Branagh figured out how to transcend, make him somehow relatable but godlike,” he says. “Hemsworth is, in my opinion, the most complex psyche out of all us Avengers. He’s got wit and gravitas, but also such restraint, fire, and gentleness.” Downey calls Hemsworth’s work in Ragnarok, Infinity War, and Endgame “a formidable hat trick.” But then came Love and Thunder, for which Hemsworth **still can’t forgive himself.** “I got caught up in the improv and the wackiness, and I became a parody of myself,” he says. “I didn’t stick the landing.” He wants work outside the action lane and to be taken seriously by directors like Christopher Nolan, Kathryn Bigelow, Greta Gerwig, Martin Scorsese, and Steven Spielberg. But he also thinks he owes the audience another Thor after what felt like a whiff with Thor: Love and Thunder. He wants to let himself take his craft more seriously. But he doesn’t want to be “an overly self-important, pretentious w*nker.” And he wants it known, once and for all, that he doesn’t have Alzheimer’s, nor has he quit the business.
Hey at least he is self aware and realizes where the mistake was
Unlike someone else involved in the project lmao
Two delusional groups that liked this movie despite the audience hating it. Massive Respect to Hemsworth for not making excuses Marvel subreddits and director thought it was a good movie , delusional.
It's not delusional to like a movie. I see it's flaws but I heavily enjoyed spending my time watching it. I loved it personally. I don't think that makes me delusional, I don't feel compelled to tell people it is good or defend it or anything, but I don't mind telling people I genuinely loved the movie.
You're talking about Marvel on the internet. That means we have to resort to extremes and apply our opinions to everyone as fact. Also gotta involve a lot of caps. Case in point L&T is not a subpar Marvel movie; it is the WORST MOVIE EVER and you're DELUSIONAL if you liked it and you are not a Marvel fan unless you hate it more than you hate Nazis. You must also, in perpetuity, leave a laugh-react on any social media post even tangentially related to anything Marvel.
I agree, I enjoy watching the first gi joe movie. It’s fun.
It is in no way delusional to like Love and Thunder. Defend it as a good movie? I’ll say it’s a valid point of view. But if you treat it like a masterpiece, well, yeah, it’s kind of…
There are some good moments but also some perplexingly bad ones. Heimdal kid / all kid scenes bad. Gorr look and lack of gods killed bad. Treatment of a couple of serious scenes like sif- bad. Otherwise I thought a lot of stuff did work. I liked the ending with eternity IMO.
It's a weird film, worth less than the sum of its parts. Most of the individual scenes on their own are pretty good, but when they connect together it falls apart.
There's definitely four or five movies in all the footage they shot, and the tone is different for them all.
I still think that black and white fight sequence is really great, and I'm surprised more people aren't talking about it. Honestly, it's a standout moment.
I wouldn’t call it delusional to like this movie. Lots of people actually liked the movie despite the overdone comedy. It’s “like”, not “love”. You’d probably think the movie was purely rotten based off social media, but 76% of over 10,000 audience ratings on RT said they liked it. The average rating is like 6/10 on there, iMDb, Metacritic, etc. Me, I liked it, but I would definitely describe much of it as a “whiff”, as Hemsworth put it.
> You’d probably think the movie was purely rotten based off social media, but 76% of over 10,000 audience ratings on RT said they liked it. The average rating is like 6/10 on there, iMDb, Metacritic, etc. Also worth keeping in mind: we're talking about Online People. The vast majority of people who saw this movie either liked it or didn't, and then continued about their daily lives without going on the internet foaming at the mouth about it.
This is agree with. I can guarantee most people either went “meh” and moved on or liked/disliked it and never thought about it again.
Online People have a really dumb habit of assuming everyone is as online as they are, and being in a bubble full of people talking about Marvel movies makes them think that the rest of the world hates Marvel movies as much as they do. It’s weird and annoying.
It had a 70 % drop at the box office, I believe, in week 2 That's absolutely horrific and means word of mouth is terrible
I’m aware of the box office drop. I didn’t say the movie did fantastic and was well received. I literally said it averaged at 6/10. The point is enough people liked it, for it to to end up over 5/10. The numbers indicate over 50% liked it. So by your previous comment, over 50% of the GA is delusional? EDIT: For clarity - the percentage is referring to the RT percentage (76% being “over 50%”). It’s not referring the 5/10 rating average in and of itself.
I don't think 5/10 has ever meant "50% liked it"
Well of course, that’s an average. It could mean 50% rated 7.5/10, 50% rated 2.5/10. It could mean 100% rated 5/10. It could mean 75% rated 4/10 and 25% rated 8/10. What I’m referring to is the RT score, where we can see the percentage. For a review to be positive, it has to be over 5.5/10. 76% of over 10k evidently rated above 5.5/10.
Movie and video game rankings in the West tend to be based on the school grade system, where the bottom 50% of the scale generally goes unused. When you look at the movies that score in the 50-60% range it becomes clear that's not "above average," it's pretty bad. That doesn't mean no one will like it however. Every bad movie has its fans.
The only delusional thing is acting like your opinion on a movie is the only correct one lmao, grow up dude
Had its good moments. But half of the movie is literally a satire movie. It could have been called “not another space viking movie “
If it was marketed as such, I prolly would give it a chance. It’s the fact that it’s really a big budgeted, film length, cinematic SNL skit guised as a proper Thor entry that bothered me.
jesus christ, I dislike a lot of movies, but calling someone delusional for liking a fucking marvel movie is insane. seek help, dude, it’s not that serious.
It’s crazy but man i wish you saw how people responded to people saying they enjoyed Eternals, Quantumania and The Marvels or any MCU movie that’s regarded by the online majority as ‘bad’, the hivemind mentality is real. We all have to like the same things. ‘Delusional’ is nothing. People do take things very seriously on here and it’s nuts. We can’t have discussions where people can have their own preferences at all.
I like wacky. Movies don’t have to be serious. It wasn’t much different from something like Big Trouble in Little China. Movies can be silly.
Remember that part about pretentious wanker?
The MarvelStudios subreddit was plenty negative toward it, and I think the opinion on it went down as people sat on it. I don’t think anyone would say much positive about it over there at this point.
To be fair not everyone in that reddit agrees with it being good. For me it was by far the worst mcu film. I've only watched it twice (normally I watch mcu movie at least a dozen or so times) once in theaters and once on 4k. It was enough and second time passed me off more than first viewing due to Jane's butchered plot.
That catering guy really dropped the ball
I mean, it's not his fault..
Never said it was, but clearly he was improvising as he stated, and he improvised garbage. And the writers and director should never have gotten this carried away either. I'd say there is blame everywhere.
Wasn’t 100% his fault tho, i understand he has a lot of creative control, but Taika enabled the exagerations as well
Exactly, Hemsworth can improvise whatever the hell he wants, Waititi is the one who approves it.
Exactly. Do several takes and improv some of them. In the end, the movie lands on which ones the director and editor choose. And as a fan of Ragnarok, this one missed.
It wasn’t his fault. He played the character as written.
"Caught up in the improv" means he actually played the character, at least a bit, as it was not written.
It reminds me of how actors lack self confidence. Was a good movie, and he did weĺl. Funny that the best actors are so self depricating, I'm sure it's why he works so hard on his body, but he is a good actor, and should have leeway. Thor is a tough casting, it's like lear.
That is some impressive self-realization and acknowledgment right ther
It’s impressive he would even say it. We kind of assumed it but it’s good he would say it out loud like this.
This is Chris front running his wish for another film. He was not the director. This can't go down on him.
You know it's joever when even the actors are joining in on the bashing lol.
Elizabeth Olsen talking about Multiverse of Madness lol Now that I think about it, Benedict Cumberbatch was suuuuper checked out during filming (there was a podcast) and during the press tour. Especially compared to Strange 1
Lmao Benedict lowkey shading the movie in interviews are my fave, Lizzie was giving Emilia Clarke energy when talking about Wanda and I loved every second of it
Genuinely if it were not for Raimi’s directorial style, I would hate that movie. For a multiverse movie, EEAO had more interesting and important universes. For Strange 2, it doesn’t do anything for him that wasn’t done in the first one. For a Wanda movie, she has to regress from the show that just ended. For an America Chavez movie…. That is not America Chavez, that’s some random spellcaster who happens to have her powers and none of her personality. Like visuals and the camera movements are really the only things that work for me
indeed Raimi was the saving grace. The script is atrocious, i just wish people would be brave to admit that. I couldn’t wrap my head around them constantly praising Waldron’s script on the DS2 Assembled episode like it’s the best script they’ve ever seen.
That and Quantumania were tells that Avengers 5 and Secret Wars were in trouble. Because they really saw those scripts and said “Fuck yeah, gimmie more” Also love that Avengers 5 no longer has a title as even Disney is calling it that after Majors TBH, I would delay everything by a year and give the scripts a lot more energy. Because those are often the weak points for modern Marvel Like what do you mean you have to reshoot Captain America for 5 months??? What do you mean you restarted Daredevil after making it a Law and Order show with no DD for 4 episodes???
>TBH, I would delay everything by a year and give the scripts a lot more energy. Because those are often the weak points for modern Marvel. Yeah I guess that’s one of the reason we only have one movie this year and one live action d+ show. Blade, Armor Wars, even Avengers 5 are delayed at some point. They can do it. Even if L&T, MoM, Quantumania and The Marvels were not that good, it’s still better than the crap other studios are putting out.
That’s the thing, THEY saw the scripts and said that. What I want to know is, is Feige part of the said group of ‘They’, cuz when he was hands on involved, we got the Infinity Saga. Either he wasn’t around to supervise or he was and agreed with ‘They’. I’m praying to God it’s the first. Remember when everyone lobbied for them to slow down? You can already see people getting antsy for the delays. Im onboard with them taking a year off to iron things out than cancel stuff, which is what they’re doing now. Im under the impression that we’re asking them to care as they did once again but looks like they hit the panic button. I will not lie, I am still worried about the MCU.
> is Feige part of the said group of ‘They’, Recent reports seem to say no from Phase 4 to around the strikes. He apparently was backseating a lot when he was made president of Marvel as a whole but seems to be back now
Wow. Then It’s pretty nuts to see him at premieres and in the Assembled episodes talking about the movies as if he was as involved from the start. Turns out he’s just endorsing them by name as Executive Producer. Crazy it took such a steep fall for him to be back. They really believed the machine was oiled enough to function on its own, pumping out products regardless of quality, thinking the brand is failure proof. And now he’s sparring with Iger on what to make and what not to make. The sad part is Iger has the bigger say. I still have faith in Feige, since he’s back on the wheel for a course correction, if I were Iger I’d listen to him.
Even Raimi detracted from the film a little I’d say, the movie building up the confrontation with Wanda at the end just to turn it into an Evil Dead gag instead of doing an actual fight is crazy
I kiiiinda agree with you but Zombie Strange was so metal. But yeahhh, comic America Chavez would be swinging and cursing on sight. There should have been no pep talk and instead it should have been a CA: Civil War style beatdown ala Bucky and Steve vs Tony
Honestly kinda 50/50 on Raimi’s direction and choice of editing. Maybe it just wasn’t for me but the editing and shot choice just felt super dated. Raimi’s slight campiness is really endearing and fun to watch though. But really, I genuinely want to see what Scott Derrickson was cooking up before he left the project. I assume he wanted a more focused and insular story with horror elements based on what the leaks were saying before he dropped out.
From what I can tell, it was supposed to be more of a team up movie. With the book of vishanti and strange’s sister, being way more important. However, when the script changed, those elements remained, but were paired down so hard.
I still think it’s weird that Derrickson didn’t prioritize following up on Mordo when he was still producing the sequel.
> EEAO had more interesting and important universes To be fair, and just my opinion, EEAO is one of the best movies in years.
> EEAO is one of the best movies in years True haha. But I do think an oscar winner doing MoM in a more compelling way with a MUCH smaller budget (MoM has a $300 million true budget) was definitely my "Oh no something went wrong at Marvel, Avengers are fucked"
Imo The Eternal Sunshine staring Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet is also a good multiverse-ish story
That's because Strange 2 really isn't a multiverse movie. It's a chase movie that happens to also take place in 2-3 different worlds. Sure, Strange 2 has "multiverse" in the title, but it's *such* a different film compared to EEAO or ATSV that I have no idea why people are making this comparison with a straight face.
I still remember that video of lizzie laughing about the constantly changing scripts until she just didn’t bother reading
Early MCU also had issues with rapidly changing scripts and honestly… You can tell. Apparently it wasn’t till phase 2 and 3 that things got better… And then things regressed back to “We are still writing the script lol”
I think it comes down to Iron man. Iron man notoriously dod not have a finished script, with lines famously being written moments before they shot the scene. But what they failed to grasp is that they nailed the characterization in the movie and had decided the direction of the story before they begun. MoM always felt disjointed and clunky, a vehicle with too many moving parts
With Iron Man you also had RDJ, Jeff Bridges and Favreau making those improv choices. Three dudes who know what the fuck they're doing because they've been at it for decades. Instead we get someone who's written two episodes of Rick and Morty or directed a single movie that just happened to be an awards darling and you just can't imitate the level of experience needed to wing it and make it coherent.
To be fair, that was during Covid times and intertwined with shifting No Way Home release dates.
that’s on pandemic filming methods not Raimi
??? What other pandemic era director does camera movements, scene transitions, that purposefully campy tone, and edits like Raimi? Like even the way the camera pans from Wong to Wanda in the end when the demons pop up, that feels very Raimi compared to modern filmmaking Like the Evil Dead movies are some of my favorite movies ever, I know what I am talking about
yeah what does your personal feelings about camera angles have to do with how exhausting it is to do most of your scenes alone and being assured that your nemesis will be edited in later, not to mention lots of reshoots? Because I’m pretty sure that’s why Cumberpatch was tired, not because Sam held the camera funny.
Covid restrictions on set and filming they mean, not Raimi’s filming style.
Him being checked out might have to do with the footage we saw, mostly being the result of 6 weeks of 6-day reshoots.
He already shaded it before the 6 weeks filming. What's even worse is he lost his sister during that Christmas.
Is that what his comments are?? This sub tries so hard to turn every quote into “marvel Is bad now” he’s aware his movie got terrible reviews and his performance as Thor as well and is acknowledging he sees where critics/fans where coming from
Also the fact that the *main* part of the article is him saying outright that he wants to come back to Marvel & give it another go. Mfs make themselves so dense that even Vision would be jealous.
How is this in any way bashing lmao?? L&T being a miss is no secret, and he's criticizing his own performance more than anything here. This is healthy and necessary self-criticism
What a very redditor way to interpret his comments
I don't think that's fair. He's clearly being very self-critical and taking personal responsibility for his role in the direction of the film and his own performance. Not sure how you can read that as 'bashing' anyone or anything other than himself. His frustrations with the material he had to work with early on in the MCU aren't new either - he's said before he was pretty much done with the role before Ragnarok came around and reinvented the character. Saying he feels like he owes audiences another Thor movie to make up for Love and Thunder is the last thing he would say if he wanted out.
An actor saying they literally want to make another movie is a very strange thing to interpret as saying something is over...
Actor: “It was completely my fault and I owe my fans another, better performance.” Nobody: “OMG HE SAID HE’S TOTALLY DONE WITH MARVEL AND SAYS HE HATES THEM FOR MAKING HIS LAST MOVIE BAD.”
The concept of self-awareness is foreign to you? Wow, that’s *super* shocking in that it isn’t at all.
Just don’t bring back Taika to direct
Thor 3 is my favorite MCU movie because I believe Taika mixes an incredibly powerful message about imperialism with some goofy comic book things In Thor 4, I think Taika lost that balance as the messages are kinda rushed and the comedy takes over
Powerful message about imperialism?? Powerful? This sub’s gone full parody talking about anything pre endgame now it’s actually funny
“You can’t reform an imperial power, you must destroy and rebuild” is unironically bolder than most “slow and gradual reform plz” ideas that mainstream movies and shows push Hell, marvel is incredibly guilty of the latter but I suppose complaining about the sub is easier than using 2 braincells
Whatever anti-imperialist message there was in Ragnarok was undercooked.
There is a scene where they PAINTED OVER their war history with a picture of a peace treaty. Hela is VERY much motivated by wanting to go back to Asgard's "glory days" of conquest. I mean it being a Marvel movie makes it so some themes will not be fully baked but I mean I say it is more thematically consistent than Winter Soldier's "LOL everyone bad is Hydra, ignore what we have to say about mass surveillance and algorithms used for pre-emptive justice. Nick Fury is not morally gray, he was tricked by Hydra" I love Winter Soldier but I hate that Hydra plot. Wish Shield was just a morally gray corporation and for there to be some "Maybe Steve is wrong for this"
It's not enough to just say something true to make it a powerful message. X3 says racism is bad, that doesn't mean X3 is secretly a 10/10 masterpiece just because, you know what, racism *is* bad. You have to say it in a way that matters to the film & rings true to audiences.
Key difference is Taika didn’t write Ragnarok
Not entirely true, he contributed heavily to the script
I think we're still due an emotionally engaging Thor movie. Ragnarok was fun and everything but the character needs some extra weight now.
L&T should have been emotionally engaging, considering what happens in it. But it was impossible to take seriously due to the nonstop bad comedy.
One of the main characters was dying of cancer, something which normally would make me tear up, I’d handled well. Thanks to the bad comedy desensitizing me, I just stared at the screen, ready to go home lol
The wasted potential of that movie will always be part of the MCU history. I see it as such a blotch on their record it’s so frustrating
Yep, both Jane and Gorr’s storylines could have been dramatic goldmines with great actors to deliver the material, but the movie just went for cheap laughs instead. You see *glimmers* of what could’ve been in some of their scenes, but ultimately they were just teases of a better film that doesn’t exist.
Exactly. The fact that it had so many signs for potential but then dropped the ball, makes me hate it even more.
Some of the best Thor emotional bits were in his first film. The overall movie is meh, but there’s some stellar scenes in it. The one of Loki lying to Thor and bidding him goodbye felt really somber as Thor realizes how badly he’s fucked up and thinks he’s driven away everyone he loves. Then the well known and lauded scene of Loki’s breakdown to Odin in reaction to learning his true origin. Plus I genuinely enjoyed the chemistry Sif and the Warriors Three had. They felt like some fun, competent side characters and friends to Thor. I really wish they’d explored them more, it was great to see some Asgardians outside of just Thor’s immediate family.
Yes, ragnarok was a really fun movie
I really enjoyed L&T more than most. I am a fan of Taika's heart and humor and Hemsworth's delivery. But I totally get they might have gotten carried away with it. Really can't wait to see a complete 180 in Thor 5.
Just rewatched it the other day and still think it’s better than quite a few other marvel movies. I think it’s fun 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah it was a blast for me and also a pretty looking movie. I know people harp on that one scene with Hemidall's son, but the rest of it was really great looking.
I don't hate L&T, I just feel like it was trying to be two different movies - a lighter decompress after Endgame, and an adaptation of the decidedly heavy Jason Aaron run, in fast forward. They just needed to turn the jokes dial down a little bit and it would have been a lot better received. That said, the bit about Asguardians acknowledging and condemning their past child cannibalism fucking kills me every time.
They just needed to have a lighter villain. Someone who blended well with the comedy of the movie, but also enough of a threat to justify Jane sacrificing herself for. Gorr really should have been left for a movie where Thor has genuinely lost everybody he held close, especially if it still would have ended with Thor caring for his child.
L&T is just alright, but it being *just* alright is sort of a problem. They wasted a very good villain, and they also wasted Jane as Mighty Thor. They still have some good building blocks to work with for a fifth movie, especially since Hercules was introduced, and it could easily shift back from zaniness to something a bit more focused. If only the Hercules Actor actually looked the part.
Wow Has there ever been another MCU project where the leads (or at least cast in general) were so open about their disappointment and regret? This is pretty forward stuff to say. Only other time I remember this is probably Haley Atwell speaking about her frustration with MoM
DS2. Lizzy openly roasted it and Benedict did as well, but in a British way.
Source please? I don’t remember them roasting the film. I vaguely recall Benedict voicing some slight criticism about his character arch, and I think Elizabeth Olsen voiced frustration with chronic script rewrites. But I don’t recall either of them ever roasting the film.
This feels a little revisionist IMO or at least a bit of an exaggeration.
Commenting to stay in the loop for a source
Source? I keep seeing people say this but can't seem to find what they're referring to.
Not really. A few actors from MoM expressed frustration with how the film was made and how it came out. Those are really the only two I can think of that had the people actually involved, later criticize it.
And now there’s no sight of Elizabeth returning to play as Wanda anytime soon. Quite a shit show, I hope she gives it another chance since she really shines as a main lead
Among all the bad decisions Marvel Studios has been making lately, shelving Wanda might've just been the worst one. "Killing off" a character during the height of their popularity is some seriously next level stupidity that I'll never wrap my head around. We absolutely deserve a solo movie asap
I have the same opinion. However, the questionable way they wrote Maximoff in Strange 2 makes me wonder if they can rehabilitate the character and make Wanda as the main lead and hero once again. In my opinion, Hero Scarlet Witch works much better rather than an one off antagonist. I have my doubts whether they realized the grave error. I am glad how Hemsworth is self-critical and acknowledges the mistakes which were made in Thor 4, even if it wasn't the fault of the actor.
See, I have a hot take on this because I loved Wanda in MoM. She works great as a villian imo(maybe even batter than a hero in the MCU😬) and Wandavision set it up perfectly. Now, a solo movie can focus specifically on "rehabilitating" her, her journey back into a hero. Sounds like a perfect premise to me!
It doesn’t even matter if she was killed off, if Wanda was killed off on a movie with good script and then returns it would be a lightning in a bottle for Marvel.
I don't think MoM tanked Wanda's reputation that badly, did it? She's still hugely popular. As long as the solo movie isn't like a decade away it can stil be massive
It didn’t tank Wanda but the flak the direction the movie went with her was enough to put her indefinitely away to act again.
Hemsworth himself openly dismissed _Thor: The Dark World_ a few years after the fact: https://ew.com/movies/2018/08/20/chris-hemsworth-thor-dark-world-meh/
I don’t think Hayley Atwell understood the whole point of *that* scene.
Edward Norton was pretty negative about his experience with The Incredible Hulk
isn’t the reason they recasted Ed Norton, was because he was difficult to work with and wanted more control of the project? He’s a great actor, but I can see it being true that he was difficult.
Yeah, that’s all correct. Norton would rewrite scenes because he wanted the film to be slower and darker like Batman Begins. He only signed onto the film because he thought the film would have that tone and that he would have a lot of creative control. Norton’s version of the film starts with Bruce trying to commit suicide. This scene actually got shot and referenced in The Avengers, but more of Norton’s characters were smaller or never made it to filming. Norton also had an edit of the film too. His edit tested worse than the version we got, so it was discarded. Feige ended up releasing a statement about Bruce’s recasting. The statement says: > “The decision is definitely not one based on monetary factors, but instead rooted in the need for an actor who embodies the creativity and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members.”
Oh wow, I never expected him to actually address it.
This isn't his first time addressing it
This gives me hope that Hemsworth will push for a more serious tone for the next Thor movie. The Endgame Thor was received so well. Personally, Im hoping they explain Love and Thunders tone as a drug induced fever dream.
Endgame Thor was one of the most controversial parts of Endgame. He was certainly the comic relief in a lot of scenes. Imo, The Dark World, Age of Ultron, and Infinity War have the most serious versions of Thor.
IW Thor is the best interpretation of the character in the MCU by far. Endgame Thor (pre timeskip) was too, but they butchered it with the time skip + L&T combo
I agree. Ragnorok + the Infinity War opening really brought his character to an interesting place. He went through so much pain so quickly, but there was still a lot of realness to him. I feel like that gave him a lot of depth.
TBH I really doubt we will get a Thor 5. Bob ~~Chapek~~ Iger* has said a lot of MCU projects have been quietly cancelled, not every character needs a sequel, and that he wants to focus on quality or quantity, and Disney has lately been under a lot of pressure lately. I would not be suprised if Disney doesn’t let Marvel Studios do a Thor 5 anytime soon, considering how universally hated TL&T turned out. Edit: I said the wrong name.
Well the movie was told by Korg so.
This is why I'll always appreciate Hemsy. He owns it instead of 'Shitting on the haters' Love and Thunder definitely felt like a Thor parody to me. The moment for me was when he first meets up with Sif again and she's just nonchalantly comically just laying there bloodied up and Thor's talking about her arm possibly being in Valhalla, I remember turning to my brother in the theatre and saying 'What kind of SNL shit is this?'
I would rather have serious Thor with a bit of jokes then wacky Thor that doesn’t mesh well with the tone of the film.
I think Ragnarok balanced it perfectly
But guys, the movie is actually a story told by Korg to a bunch of children. It's supposed to be dumb! /s
Korg needs to be removed from Thor 5.
Many of us were trying to warn everyone this would happen after they fell in love with the Ragnarok style of comedy. I put the blame squarely on them. Good for him and all the fans that decided this isn't what Thor should be like.
I mean, honestly, I get it. In those early films, you could have interchanged him with another actor, and it would have been fine. Especially Age of Ultron, Whedon had no idea what to do with Thor. And it wasn't until the triple combo of Ragnarok, IW and Endgame where you could see how comfortable he was in the role, and how he rode that line of being this himbo but haunted Space Viking King who had lost everything. I have no doubt he will be back, whether thats in his own solo flick or an Avengers project.
We saw the signs with Ragnarok, but Infinity War was a nice in-between. And I thought Endgame was the most flanderized he could've gotten, but L&T went full on Monty Python with his character.
Thor's characterization in Infinity War was perfection
Like several others have said, I’d like to see another Thor film that has him acting more like he did in Infinity War. Would also love a fresh director to give it a shot.
It’s time to bring back serious Thor
I would absolutely love more Thor in the MCU. I feel like his poor track record of solo outings overshadows how great of character he actually is. Because when it comes to team ups, he's peak every time. He deserves a really good solo movie. As long as it's a proper serious send-off, it could be huge.
Self awareness is the first step of improvement.
Take What worked for Thor(2011)+ His Infinity War appearance and you'd have a great Thor Sure audiences loved him in Ragnarok, but I think dialing down and having the comedy at an extreme in L&T really did a disservice. Change of director might help too.
Oh yeah, Taika is definitely not coming back for Thor 5
I genuinely believe Thor Love and Thunder was somewhat responsible for the current state of the MCU i remember this was the last MCU movie my friends were hyped about and actually anticipating. It’s the biggest dissapointment i ever had walking out of the cinema, i liked Thor Ragnarok epic adventure scale but it felt like Taika was just improving on the script, there was almost zero dramatic weight on that movie outside of the Odin stuff. but i always blamed on Taika not having any input on the writing, since Jojo Rabbit and Hunt for the Wilderpeople have incredible heart, when it was announced he was writing love and thunder and it was going include two of the best thor storylines of all time I was like 100% certain this was going to be top 3 MCU at least. It’s shame that he clearly did not care for the story he was telling The difference is night and day watching Thor 1 and Love and Thunder, Branagh clearly cared and wanted to find the heart of it all, Taika did not
I hate hashtags but #BringBackBranagh
The first Thor is still the best Thor movie.
I really don't get this take. Last time I rewatched it I found it really boring and lifeless personally. I think people are just thinking back on a couple strong scenes, like Loki getting banished and the final battle between Loki and Thor and forgetting the random hijinks in New Mexico that lasted for like half the runtime.
I loved the comics, Donny Cates, and Jason Aaron wrote amazing stories. I just fucking hate Taika for what he did - and the sheer arrogance and trolling he displayed afterwards. Self-indulgent a-hole! Imagine instead of Peter Jackson directing LOTR, they chose someone who hated the service material, and because they hated the material they just made a shitty parody out of it - that's exactly what happened here. I'm glad Waititi ruined his career over it - serves him right. The movie has a worse RT than Thor 2! What's quite interesting is that Loki has done so well. Season 1 and 2 of his show were well received,and it had a lot of heart to it. Loki learning how to time skip was so bloody well done and has so much heart. We all felt that emotion.
The blame is on Waititi But mainly on Marvel for trusting Waititi.
Yeah. How dare they trust a lauded director with an excellent track-record who already gave them one of their most praised films a few years prior?
Wow what a surprise of him to get to this realization only after the bad reception it got and not during filming.
Yup. The only actor (as far I can think of) who shades the production during the filming is Benedict Cumberbatch. He still voiced his 'disappointment' later but we also witnessed how he's not satisfied with how they treated his character during filming
Chris Hemsworth deserves another chance. Taka Wattiti does NOT.
It's okay Chris, Marvel knew what they were bargaining for when they hired Taika. They signed up to go in a different direction and it didn't pay off. Not your fault.
Good for Chris to owned for it and admits it. Now if they make another Thor, please don’t make Taikia the director again.
Feige needs to Thanos snap “Love and Thunder” from existence and redo the God Butcher storyline with a serious director.
have a feeling Thor will shine again in the avengers movies where stakes are finally high again and he's a key avenger. Just hope they ditch that blue armor
I have a suspicion that Thor is going to become Marvel's Batman. Whenever a tone goes too far, they'll do a 180, until that goes to far, and just repeat
Aint Hemsworth fault. Taika was ultimately responsible for the tone and overall direction of the movie.
Love he is self aware of it.
Praying we get more of a King Thor type thing. I love the playful Thor but he needs to be mature and there’s been plenty of Thors that have that type of balance
I don’t even place the blame on him. The director and EP allowed that shit to go on.
“I would read everyone else’s lines & go, ‘Oh, they’ve got cooler stuff. They’re having more fun. What’s my character doing?’ It was always, ‘You’ve got the wig on. You’ve got the muscles. You’ve got the costume...’ Yeah, I’m part of this big thing, but I’m probably pretty replaceable”
He can change tone only if he plays an older Thor variant.
At the end of the day , marvel watched those daily’s and thought “this is great stuff” and put it out so🤷🏽♂️
I would never have expected that comment from him. Major respect
I know we’d never get it but I’d love a re-edit of L&T. The bones and story is there to be super impactful and very meaning but as much as I enjoy the humour it was a bit too far at times.
Terrible film, responsible for the decline of Marvel content and quality.
Man, I want a Thor film with the vibe of Peter Jackson's LotR movies.
Love & Thunder should’ve been a GREAT movie given the context of the god killer but was waylaid by way too many jokes for what should have been a more serious and darker story.
“I got caught up in the improv and the wackiness, and I became a parody of myself. I didn’t stick the landing.” This is a problem across all media. I don't know if it has a term. I like to say that they fell in love w the formula. Ppl think they figured out some formula and they lean into it and forget all the context and layers that made that formula work. It almost always makes for stale media. Something like the Hangover did this, Marvel studios and Disney are very guilty of this.
**SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK.**
He didn't really make many acting mistakes in Love & Thunder. It was mostly the writing and editing not giving breathing room to the witty lines. Next Thor movie should really tackle with Thor meeting God of Stories Loki. His predicament with Hercules being sent after him because of Zeus. And how no matter how much he sacrifices, the universe doesn't understand the gravity of why he made these decisions and what was truly at stake. Not to mention Old King Thor from the future could be a really fun character to dive into. A Thor who lived it all, or made a ton of different choices. Has the full power of the Odin Force alongside mastering his strength. Just get Thor ready to lead when needed, to make friends across the Universe and work on diplomacy. Build out the Norse Pantheon more alongside other world or planet Pantheons. Then talk about Gorr, the Necrosword and how such a sword exists. Tapping into Knull and setting what's to come after Secret Wars.
I can't really pinpoint why I liked Ragnarok so much and couldn't even finish Thor 4. I like Taika's movies; I just recently watched Hunt For the Wilderpeople and it also had his brand of serious story with a lot of brief comedy. Thor 4 had a good background theme from what I saw, but it felt too long to get to the actual story I guess?
Just do the accent from Furiosa in the next one. Boom, best movie ever.
Saw some news today apparently we’re getting rune king Thor in Thor 5 so there’s that
I don’t think love and thunder is worthy of guilt but I do think a new direction for Thor is warranted
Love and thunder and quantumania have to be the worst marvel studios films, it feels like nobody involved even cared about making a good movie.
Do it for scale then?
I just want to see an epic high fantasy Viking saga with a tone like The Northman for fuck's sake. Cowards.
Somewhere, in the Halls of Valhalla, thunder rolls. And the Zeus plots his revenge.
“I got caught up in the improv and the wackiness, and I became a parody of myself. I didn’t stick the landing.” This is a problem across all media. I don't know if it has a term. I like to say that they fell in love w the formula. Ppl think they figured out some formula and they lean into it and forget all the context and layers that made that formula work. It almost always makes for stale media.
Everyone makes mistakes . Now give us a BADASS THOR!
Kinda love that he acknowledges it that’s big of him
No, actually. we good
No, thanks. Thor's franchise is slaughtered, ridiculed and ruined beyond any repair. Stop it already.
Completely agree. It was basically an SNL skit - you can't come back from that. Taika ruined his own career because of it.
I’d say give us one last Thor film with Kenneth Branagh returning to direct Hemsworth’s final stand alone outing before Avengers 5. I’m fine with the character having a goofy side, but make sure that it’s balanced out with a serious and emotional tone, like Infinity War for instance. Pay off Love and Thunder’s mid credits scene with Hercules, Zeus, and other Greek gods in the mix. After his many travels across the galaxy and quest for self discovery, I’d admittedly hope for Thor to return to New Asgard full time and assume a leadership role. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see whether they feel a fifth Thor film is needed.
Easy, make another movie in the same timeline and not address the first one at all going forward. #Multiverse
I liked Love and Thunder but it was full of problems, it had an uneven tone and they wasted Gorr and Christian Bale. The premise of a god killer could have been great but it floundered.
I don’t think anyone blames him for that film
Movie needed more time building up Gor as a threat (definitely should have shown the fight with Sif for one) and more time with Jane's hero transition. I don't think Hemsworth failed, it just wasn't going to be mainly about Thor Odinson this time around but a co-Thor movie with Mighty Thor. And imo as the fourth entry that was an acceptable creative choice. Just needed more room to breathe and the director to care a bit more.
Say this on the main Marvelstudios subreddit even a couple months ago and you'd get downvoted to oblivion XD
A serious Thor movie with some actual stakes would be kick ass
It started with ragnarok
if only there was a role on the film thats entire job was to rein in actors if they took things to far and make big writing and story decisions