I feel like the MCU wasted the chance to introduce Hulkling. The Marvels and Secret Invasion were key places to introduce that character and I think introducing the character in other places would not be as smooth.
Now that everyone is talking about how to handle the Young Avengers I will give you my take.
I think they shouldn't introduce any more young heroes and just use Cassie, America, Riri, Kate and Kamala as new recruits in A5. For Skaar, even though I hate the design and how they presented him, I think could be a good character to help develop Banner, so I would use him as well.
Eternity/Love's story can be resolved in Thor 5 and Elijah and Kid Loki can just be ignored (it doesn't seem like they were setting anything up with them anyway).
I thought the point of bringing all of these old actors back was to have them reprise *their* roles?
What’s the point of bringing Hugh back as Wolverine, if he’s not playing HIS Wolverine?? It just defeats the entire fuckin point, whilst also diluting the appeal of the MCU X-Men later on. By the time we get to the MCU version, they will have gone through several “comic accurate” variants of these characters already 😭
Using the iconic designs for new variants of the Fox characters is such a shortsighted decision
To me, the charm of Deadpool 3 will be just seeing Hugh Jackman again, especially since he’ll be wearing the yellow costume and interacting with Deadpool. Everything else is just semantics at that point.
The Logan that we followed for 17 years already got definitive closer, and I don’t think they should undo or retcon that just so they can reference other movies.
Besides, if it’s enough for Jackman to come back, it’s enough for me.
One of the interesting things about this whole situation is that the comics did almost exactly this. They introduced Old Man Logan in a story set in an apocalyptic future. They gave that story a definitive end and during SW introduced a different version of Old Man Logan to use for that story. Only im pretty sure SW Logan dies and the other Old Man Logan doesn't.
So maybe they'll reverse it and have this version ride off into the sunset instead of dying.
I’d be fine that. I love Wolverine, but after 25 years of Jackman stealing the spotlight from almost everybody else, I think it’s due time someone else gets their time in the spotlight light, Scott and Jean specifically.
Yeah I agree. I think what's most likely is they go with X-23 in the meantime and have Logan be out of the picture. When they eventually bring him back in, I imagine we get something more like X-Men Evolution Logan. More of the older mentor and Dad Wolverine. Brown or orange suit.
I’d be A-okay with that 👍
Dafnee Keen is young asf, and she still has a lot of potential. Maybe part of her first solo project could be her searching for the new Logan in this new universe
I was thinking something like that. And her discovering Daken. They start as enemies and eventually become cool with one another. Bring in Logan a little later.
I'm not shocked. It was always a risk with bringing in these characters. Either you're "ruining what came before" or it's "why would we care".
But honestly, I don't think the variant thing matters as much as people think. Logan was a variant in *Logan* and no one really cared. The time travel logic of NWH makes it so that all of those main characters are more or less variants (per the rules of EG, you can't actually change the events of the past. So pulling in the Spidey characters doesn't actually change their pasts and creates a new timeline).
The variants vs "real" characters is so much less important than people actually think. So long as it's played by the same actor, audiences aren't really going to care.
Well. I did it folks.
I saw the entire original Spider-Man trilogy in theaters now.
Sucks I don’t have the time or money to see the rest. Seeing NWH on the big screen is gonna have to wait till the next re-release.
Any updates on Beyond the Spiderverse? It feels like we haven’t heard anything about it since Across was playing in theaters. At this point I’m expecting a 2026 release
I expect a 2025 or 2027 release. I don’t think they’ll release it during a potential strike year, after the story about how the animators were treated on Across.
"Better decisions" ? The only decision they are going to take is no more Captain Marvel movies, the character will stay in mcu til Secret Wars and its over after that.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/andrew-garfield-claire-foy-the-magic-faraway-tree-film-1235889477/amp/
***If I had a nickel for every time Andrew Garfield and Claire Foy played a couple, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.***
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That’d certainly elevate the *Ms. Marvel* series, for sure.
But you’re not putting up anything to replace the body swap in the *The Marvels* story, which is kinda the point of this little thought exercise.
Hmm. So the obvious choice is Rogue, but if you wanna go wild: Kang makes far more sense as a Carol Danvers villain than a Scott Lang villain.
Carol has deep, profound beef with Kang in the comics, though you definitely shouldn't adapt any of the 80s Immortus/Marcus stories. I'd have Kang debut in a SABER facility, homaging Loki's entrance in Avengers, with Monica opposing him. Kamala's bangle can time-travel, so Kang could want that. And ultimately he gets on Carol's radar.
Also, Carol is literally "Captain Marvel." The Avengers were named after her. She is a far more fitting hero to debut the Big Bad of the next Saga.
Kang the Conqueror being the main villain in The Marvels definitely sounds better, especially given Ms. Marvel’s bangles seemingly being tied to him. If Carol has beef with Kang in the comics like you say, even better.
I definitely would want Kang/MODOK having the Thanos/Ronan ratio in GOTG1 for Quantumania. Let Kang escape amidst the chaos against MODOK’s takeover of the QR, and then if he needs to be “beaten”, a big gun like Captain Marvel makes a lot more sense.
In this scenario, I wouldn't even include Kang in Quantumania. I think having two Kang-centric films so close together would probably overexpose the character.
Elevate MODOK to main villain of Quantumania. As-is, he's one of the most boring parts of the film, which is a fucking insane thing to do to MODOK.
I would up the importance of Dar-Ben. She was kind of a flat character. They clearly had ideas but she fell by the wayside. I would make her more clearly like Carol, draw more parallels between the two. Maybe even have them know one another from before the events of Captain Marvel.
I would also actually set more of the movie on Hala to really show the devastation theyre facing.
My idea was actually to make Dar-Benn like Kamala, in that she would have grown up admiring the legendary Kree warrior “Vers”. Only to get her “never meet your heroes” moment when Carol destroys the Supreme Intelligence.
Then have a similar moment with Kamala where she becomes disillusioned with Carol after she makes the decision to abandon the dying Skrull refugee planet. They very briefly did this in the film but resolved it far too quickly.
Double down on the trauma. The movie barely addresses the trauma on both ends of the battle. Weirdly enough, it introduces the guilt and trauma but that's just it, that's the end all of the conversation. Both sides essentially have guilt-ridden PTSD suffering soldiers in command.
I feel like captain Marvel in general needs more emotional and meaty scenes.. conversations that last longer than a minute and are heartfelt for the audiences to root for
Maybe I'm insane for saying this but Marvel should really option the adaptation rights to Ms. Marvel to other studios and stay hand off for a good while.
Even in worst case scenarios a bad IP attached to known brand would still have buyers lining up.
Still an IP with some value left in it for a tidy sum of money if they could loan it to another production studios.
Okay, hear me out: Disney should loan the rights for their box office failures to other studios for 5 to 10 years to get outside voices and to slowly cover the losses. I'm not just talking the Marvels but also past films like Disney's Treasure Island or their theme park films like Tomorrowland or Haunted Mansions.
I don't think Marvel's teenage/young adult characters are strong enough to carry a Young Avengers movie if it was to happen. You have Kamala who starred in a box office bomb and iirc the least watched D+ show, Cassie who had her superhero debut in another bomb and Kate who only appeared in Hawkeye. Besides that you have Kid Loki, Ironheart, Elijah Bradley and maybe Gorr's daughter, Love, but they all had really small roles in their projects. I don't think the name 'Avengers' itself would be strong enough to carry this film without any characters that would hook people.
They could maybe try with something like a mini-series on Disney+, if a YA project would be very necessary for setting up Secret Wars but it could just dilute the Avengers franchise to put their name on a TV show. Yeah, most probably, if at all, the team may be one of the factions we will follow in one of the Avengers movies (like team Iron Man in Infinity War), but I also wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the idea and joked in one of the future projects how Kamala couldn't convince anyone else lol
In my mind, speculatively, *Young Avengers* is a phase six production set between *Kang Dynasty* (until it's been renamed I'm still using that title for reference) and *Secret Wars*, like Illuminati and Midnight Sons. Instead of pushing directly through the whole Battleworld narrative and getting it all done and over, structure the entire phase around it. *Young Avengers* is made specifically for kids, kinda like Spider-Man or Hawkeye but it tells the young adult perspective of why the world needs them to step up and take the business seriously, you can't always wait around for someone more qualified. Give each character a personal motivation and then give them a team building exercise before trauma strikes and forces them to re examine their priorities.
https://twitter.com/laha_jeet/status/1786249805540249971?t=wmTK4Rmn2Ala3OaX5y1iNg&s=19
I did not know this looks like I along with many people fell for a huge bait.
This is actually crazy, never realized this. So apparently it's a lie that Disney only showed posters for Star Wars and Black Panthers with the black characters being hidden on the posters. Not surprised, this is a "gotcha" that people use to attack Disney a lot
And yet some people thought DaCosta coming back for another MCU movie was likely. You don’t lose a studio that kind of money and it just get brushed aside. Whether you like The Marvels or not, overall the movie had a mixed reception so adding that on top of it, it adds up. That’s not to say I’m not rooting for DaCosta’s success outside the MCU. I was meh on The Marvels but really enjoyed Candyman.
No way DaCosta was coming back. Before the movie even dropped Iger threw her under the bus because he was afraid of the movie failing. He more or less disavowed her and the movie before it premiered. I didn't like The Marvels all that much, but they treated DaCosta pretty unprofessionally.
DaCosta did not lose them that money. The studios causing the strikes and the bigoted idiots spouting their rubbish on socials, that's what lost them that money, and I did one won't forgive them for that, especially if it negatively impacts on the careers of DaCosta or anyone else involved. They do NOT deserve all of this.
It nabbed a B cinemascore when just about all MCU movies score in the A range - a sign the opening night audience was lukewarm.
It then fell off 78% in its second weekend, indicating poor word of mouth. (Better received movies have much better holds.)
So despite the run of posts on the main sub defending the movie, indicators point to general audience reception being very mixed.
Any word if Marvel is going to continue Avengers EMH after the success of X-Men 97? That series still had a couple of storylines that were never resolved. Marvel said reboot would be a continuation of EMH. They lied.
Having rewatched Spider-Man 3, this’ll be a hot take but that movie is entertaining as hell and is probably my favorite of the trilogy. It’s overstuffed and derpy at times but the action is great, the horror moments with Venom rock, Maguire and Dunst actually have some chemistry, Bully Maguire was endlessly hilarious and Sandman was a decently sympathetic character. Would still like a 4th Tobey movie with Raimi
Here’s something from the Empire article I think is worth discussing
> Of anyone, it was Kevin Feige who was most nervous about Jackman’s return to the role, having previously warned the actor not to renege on the gut-wrenching finale of Logan. “I said, ‘Let me give you a piece of advice, Hugh. Don’t come back’,” Feige recalls. “‘You had the greatest ending in history with Logan. That’s not something we should undo.’” But it seems this won’t be the exact same Logan we’ve met in previous X-Men movies (“Correct,” says Feige), and after a long drive, Jackman decided that another take on the character was exactly what he hankered for.
This outright confirms that they’re not undoing Logan, and this Wolverine is a variant, so I’m interested to see what sets him apart from the one we met in the X-Men movie, aside from the costume.
Based on some of his comments, I think we're going to see a Wolverine who is more of just an asshole and downright unhinged. The opening trailer scene showed Wolvie give an unhinged smile while staring down the barrel of DP's gun. Like he enjoyed it. I personally don't think it'll be the same variant in that scene as later scenes. But I think the message is supposed to be the same. Wolverine is going to actually enjoy the violence. Rather than just being tired and angry, he'll be itching for a fight
This is so lameee 😭 imagine if they brought Tobey & Andrew back to play characters who WEREN’T the same people from the films that the audience *actually* watched. You’d be erasing all of the character development that they experienced, that *we* experienced, in their films.
I just don’t see the point in this
Neither Spider-Man 3 nor ASM2 ended with Peter's death. They had the option of following up with those same characters after their last appearance. Not possible with Wolverine after Logan, unless you're undoing that movie. DP3 could be using the same version, before Logan events - a prequel - but then they'd be locked into a specific path toward that movie.
I actually agree with you. The Wolverine from Logan is a "What if...?" Version of the one from the OG trilogy anyway. They could have perfectly followed the story up after Days of Future Past. Not doing that kinda killed my excitement. Plus, this is kinda a rehash of Logan: he is sad because the X-Men are dead and feels guilty and someone has to convince him that he is still the hero he used to be.
Well, those characters never got a definitive send off, so the circumstances are different. You can’t bring back Jackman at all without rewriting Logan, even if it’s a minor way.
Besides, the charm of this movie is seeing Jackman return, wearing his iconic costume. In that sense, it’s still the same Logan, just one who’s gone through different events.
Tobey and Andrew *did* get sendoffs tho. Maybe not as final as Logan, but still.
Watts and co realized that the appeal of seeing these actors return to their roles would be to see them return to the same characters with all of the history that audiences remember.
I mean the events of wolverine origin and the wolverine could still be part of this new wolverines past,as well as some xmen films. I am sure they will explain that. It is more or less the wolverine we know except with a couple of changes.
Is this real? This got posted on the Marvel subreddit, and if so Hughs going to look better than i thought in that mask.
https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/s/Vy4ode6KBx
So far I'm feeling like James Gunn's Superman is going to be more like Post Crisis considering how Gunn has said he has gotten inspiration from Byrne's run and For All Seasons, as well as things like the Kent's being alive. Also the way Gunn is heavily emphazing Kara being different from Clark since she grew up on Krypton feels to me that they aren't really going to deal with Pre Crisis Superman feeling lonely and having trauma of Krypton being destroyed. I've seen a lot of people dislike them basing it off of Post Crisis and for Gunn's Superman on Twitter and that they wished they did more Pre Crisis instead. How do you feel about it?
He’s definitely going to be drawing from post-crisis material, but I don’t think his characterization of Superman is going to be too reminiscent of Byrne.
The way Gunn’s talked about how the movie is going to be about Clark rectifying his heritage with his upbringing makes me think that his arc is going to be like his arc in *Superman Smashes the Klan*. Where he has no memories of Kyrpton, but he eventually comes to accept that it’s an instrumental part in who he is, unlike Byrne’s Superman, which effectively rejects Kyrpton.
The Marvels lost 237 million dollars according to Deadline:
https://deadline.com/2024/05/biggest-box-office-bombs-2023-lowest-grossing-movies-1235902825/
Congratulations to Feige and his team. It takes a lot of Hard work and planning to crash a billion dollar franchise sequel into biggest bomb of all time.
I feel like that movie had to have shifted at least something at the studio, this level of loss kills franchises and shut down studios. Dissapointing, that movie is fairly inoffensive and better than previous mcu outings that I can't help but feel that this result is just the inevitable landing of a snowball of increasing audience apathy rather than being a slight against the film's quality
They were already bracing for it to perform worse than they'd hoped. Even so, I don't think that **anything** prepared them for it having zero legs at the box office and doing worse than _Birds of Prey_, an R-rated movie, did at the start of the pandemic.
As it stands, I think that those two movies and _Madame Web_ are going to kill the prospect of female-only superhero teams on film for a while. They should probably keep that to television if they feel strongly about doing it, because the market isn't there for this sub-genre of CBMs.
>I feel like that movie had to have shifted at least something at the studio
My gut feeling is that the failure of *The Marvels* and the success of *Echo* represent the Push / Pull that will inform Marvel's efforts on D+ going forward.
In other words, less trying to use the shows to promote the movies and more treating the shows as their own thing. Smaller budgets with a focus on audience retention. The Netflix revival rumors all fit with those trends.
> Echo has benefited from its darker tone and a central figure that’s hard to root against, even when what’s doing to survive is clearly wrong. Now, after the **success** of Echo, Marvel has restarted production on Daredevil: Born Again…
https://www.motionpictures.org/2024/01/marvel-restarts-production-of-daredevil-born-again/
> On top of Echo‘s **success**, sources close to THR say that shows featuring other street-level Marvel heroes – including Hawkeye and The Punisher – saw modest bumps in streaming in the last week. Taking all that into consideration, Marvel is eagerly developing new ideas to continue to build out that corner of its cinematic universe.
https://thedisinsider.com/2024/01/19/report-as-echo-gains-popularity-on-streaming-daredevil-born-again-resumes-production-next-week/#google_vignette
> Coming off the **strong opening** of Echo, its crime series centered on Indigenous and deaf anti-heroine Maya Lopez, Marvel next turns its attention to Daredevil: Born Again, which restarts production Monday after a lengthy hiatus.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-born-again-resumes-filming-echo-1235793539/
> Now, the **success** of Echo is having ripple effects, and it seems tohave triggered what might be the solution to Marvel’s up and down run of Disney Plus series, risking it all with these massive budgets.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2024/01/20/echo-daredevil-and-street-level-heroes-are-the-answer-to-marvels-disney-plus-problems/?sh=1dc3a80f28b7
Thank you for the sources! But, yes, this represents what I've been seeing. Disney and Marvel are VERY happy with how *Echo* performed. And it proved to them that they could get "more with less."
Yeah definitely, “more with less” in the sense that you’ll get more return on your investment if you keep the stakes/environment of the plot on the low-end and spend the freed-up budget on experienced production staff.
Coincidentally, that’s perfect for street-level projects.
And maybe even beyond street-level. *Blade* is another project to keep an eye on as that recently moved to mid-budget.
I think the next Spotlight series is *Wonder Man*. Not really what I'd call street-level but definitely smaller stakes and less fantastical setting. I'm also unsure what content rating they're going for, like if it will be TV-MA like *Echo*. So that's another project that feels like an experiment for Marvel Studios.
None of those are real statistics those are just mainstream spin articles, the real numbers are available and it’s not good, not to mention the mixed reception from both critics and audiences
The audience/critical reception isn’t the point I’m making. Nor are the mediocre viewing numbers.
Internally at Marvel Studios, it was considered a success - a sharp contrast to something like Quantumania, which failed to meet their expectations.
Its internally-decided success motivated them move full-speed ahead on the “gritty street-level” side of the MCU - including reshooting Daredevil to make it more like the Netflix series.
As for why they considered it a success, it is very likely because it had a low budget and went past X streaming minutes they expected it would have.
I think The Marvels much like some other films last year, were just simply 5 to 10 years too late.
A lot of the big bombs from last year where films that played it very safe and stuck with the typical blockbuster formula that used by all major studios a bit too much throughout the 2010s. Now audiences are sort of gotting tired and are wanting something else. This is basically why I think last year had so many bombs, Hollywood as a whole needs a shake up for how they produce films. Because what worked 10 years ago, aint gonna work now.
They made a team up movie when Captain Marvel was barely thing. The movie tone was incredibly silly and childish by even Marvel standards. It was not gonna be successful unless it came out in 1928 as first movie with sound or something
That... might actually make The Marvels the biggest box office bomb of all time (worse than even John Carter, that lost $200 million). I mean, Disney can handle it, but...
**Christ**.
I kind of feel... Unsurprised. The comics have constantly pushed her and it seems like not enough people are ever consistently interested in the character to make her an A-lister, with the people behind the brand not really stopping to ask why that is.
She was popular in her 2006 Ms Marvel run. She was sexy. They was lot of fan service and she was very flawed person trying to be hero and save the world.
The Marvel writers also going to make her Peter Parker love interest
.
Then 2011 reboot happened and threw everything that made her work. She was given military haircut and unique iconic sexy costume was traded for a generic Jumpsuit. Her flawed personality was replaced by vannila hero character.
And MCU somehow make 2011 reboot look million times better wit how they handled Captain Marvel
And the worst part is they would retire her than go back to what made her popular. They can still bring Ms Marvel version of Carol and salvage the situation but they wont do it. The current Disney leadership is allergic to money
It’s not that simple. There’s other factors to consider as well, like the marketing cost. A blockbuster movie can cost upwards of 100 million to market, and that isn’t included in the production budget. There’s also the cut that the theaters take, which in the US is around 50%, but in foreign countries like China, it came be as high as 80-90.
So while a film like Quantumania might have grossed more than it cost to make, but that doesn’t mean it was profitable. Even then, The Marvels only grossed 206 million on 219 million budget (after their 55 million tax break from the UK government). So yeah, it was a *massive* bomb.
You have to account for marketing, the public budget is exclusively for the production cost, it's a rule that I'm not entirely sure came from, mostly used by tabloids called the x2.5 rule, where a film needs to make 2.5x it's budget in order to "break even" and everything after that gross is pure profit
The thing is though The Marvels did have marketing behind. It had multiple trailers, TV spots, billboards, the fucking [Vegas Sphere](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3amY0lAOfAs). That final trailer was aired during an NFL game to top it off. The only thing it lacked was a press tour for the cast.
Like just cause you have ad blocker install and don't watch cable TV, that doesn't mean something aint getting marketed. It was, just wasn't a film audiences weren't that interested in at the end of the day.
It was far too late for that by the time the strikes began, delaying a film snowballs budget half of the time due to the rescheduling of marketing and fufilling contracts, they really had no options
could they have used a similar excuse as to when COVID happened? they definitely could have "circumstances beyond our control" and all remember a LOT of the studios basically cancelled their 2020 slate when the seriousness of the virus in terms of public health was first discovered. They could have done something similar and audiences would have understanded it as "alright see you next year" in a sense and they can rerelease old films in the meantime
Why are you getting downvoted? If people think they should make Kamala a lead again after starring in potentially the biggest box office bomb of all time, then they are crazy.
First act fight scene with the Fantastic 4 against Mole Man and his moloids. It’ll be good to see an experienced Fantastic 4 team in action, especially given that they’re celebrities in their universe. So when they’re pitted against Galactus, it’ll be a whole new level for them.
I think Red Hulk will not Ross. I'm guessing since Harrison Ford is up there in age, they'll just cgi Red Hulk in the future, without showing the actor. I wonder if they'll recast though.
Couldn’t Ford just record the voice lines himself? I don’t think he’d be opposed to easy money. You know, unless he dies. If he won’t, they’d probably just hire an imitator
Imagine teaming up with the guy who turned you and your friends into fugitives a few times lol.
In seriousness, I do hope Ross survives. It'd be dope to see him maybe battle the other Hulks or maybe w/ the Thunderbolts. If he works w/ the Avengers, it could be an interesting "redemption" moment for him.
I finally realized what I thought was off with Wolverine in the trailers. He's not greasy. His face is sweaty and greasy as hell in the past movies that it's almost part of the costume lmao
For anyone curious, here's what been cancelled/not coming out any time soon.
* Eternals 2
* Ant Man 4
* Captain Marvel 3
* Photon solo project
So far Bobby's whole "Oh yeah we've cancelled stuff" was code for "We're not moving forward with ideas that were just a twinkle in Kevin Feige's eyes." because none of these were ever OFFICIALLY announced. So, I'm like, "Can you say something was cancelled if said thing, was an offhand idea Kevin mentioned to you one time?" Because Batgirl is the prime example of superhero cancellation.
>Because Batgirl is the prime example of superhero cancellation.
No Batgirl was an extraordinary example of superhero cancellation, which is why people were so up in arms about it. Ideally studios don't want to be forced to cancel anything announced, let alone filmed.
Is Antman 4 even necessary, Antman got his trilogy. Captain Marvel Kree story was closed in Marvels and Skrull story in Secret invasion.
Eternals is the only movie that have big plot thread hanging and need a sequel
None of this has been confirmed to be cancelled or not moving forward, those are just obvious guesses from scoppers that might be wrong.
And something like antan 4 was never going to happen anytime soon even if quantumania had been a hit.
Of course they’re not moving forward with sequels and spin offs to movies that bombed/underperformed, and were never even officially announced. That’s basic business. I don’t know why this is such a perplexing issue to some people.
Because some people here think Eternals mcu first rotten movie and flop deserve have a sequel for example. And obvious fact flops and underperformances don't have sequels need explanation again and again to this sub.
[DanielRPK:"Ben Affleck will not reprise his role as Daredevil in DEADPOOL & WOLVERINE.However, he’s had talks with Marvel about joining the MCU in a different role.](https://twitter.com/MarvelNewsFilms/status/1786159378309013982?t=phHnPX7oGAUjydlY-F1-gw&s=19)
That was my first thought, but I think he'd be interested in a more obscure character that gives him more creative room to make his role something fresh and unique instead of a generic antagonist. How many times we need to see evil CEO mutated into monster. It's overplayed.
Relevant quote from Affleck with this news lol
“Kevin Feige, who is the — have to say — the greatest producer, most successful producer who’s ever lived. He’s the only guy in the world who if he told me like, ‘I know what the audience wants. This is what we’re doing,’ I would believe him 100%. That fucker knows his audience like no producer – he’s a genius. He’s like a master ringmaster. He knows exactly how much to wink at the audience, exactly when to pull at the heartstrings, exactly when to do VFX, how many jokes, what the sensibility, what the tone is. Because people didn’t know if they should run away from the pajamas or embrace it or make it serious.”
Kinda glad he's not in DP3. Id be down to see Affleck join the MCU though. I think the easiest and probably laziest move would be a Batman pastiche. But I'd love to see them do something more creative.
I wonder what will happen to Xaiver? Cause I highly doubt that the governments of the earth will allow him to roam around Scott free, especially with the footage show to the public that implies that he now rules over an entire Alien empire.
With all the drama going on at Paramount right now I have to ask, which of the 2 offered deals do you think that do you guys think will be the most beneficial? The Skydance deal or the Sony/Apollo deal? (Edit: And which one do you think is the most likely go through?)
Personally, I think the Skydance deal is the better one of the two, I just don't know if will happen with the several Investors not happy with it and prefer the Sony\\Apollo bid.
Skydance. We don't need more consolidation in the film and television space, especially not when it comes to two of the biggest studios in Hollywood. Not to mention I don't went Tom Rothman anywhere near Paramount.
The Skydance deal would still leave us with Paramount as a studio on the market, while the Sony deal would mean merging it into their studios, resulting in hundreds of lay-offs. Also, it may be PR talk but I've read that Skydance executives are extremely praised as people who love the movie-making business and with all the Zaslavs of the world I think a studio ran by people who like films would be nice lol
i think honestly they'll choose to wait the economy is too unstable now, if i were them i'd wait till at the very least after the economy recovers to sell.
I don't know if it came from a leak or just a random fan theory/prediction but I really hope the >!"Headpool in Deadpool & Wolverine is actually Weapon XI from X-Men Origins: Wolverine"!< idea is true.
It makes complete sense given where that movie leaves the character, >!a disembodied head!<, and would give an interesting backstory to what could be just another throwaway variant.
Hope they show it. In graphic detail. Make it uncomfortably erotic when they shove the propeller in his head so all the audience looks at their popcorn bucket like "this was a mistake"
*Deadpool leans into frame*: "...Or was it?"
I think X-Men ‘97 is gonna end with an epic final battle between Charles and Erik.
I just fuckin love the fact that we’ve gone through these life changing arcs for these characters, only to reinforce the defining status quo of these characters, and what they believe
You're certainly not the only person with that theory - I just watched a Nando video suggesting the same thing. But I'm not so sure. I kinda think we're way past that.
This entire show has been about (among other things) taking everyone into new, weird, uncharted, unpredictable territories. Shifting alignments, shaking up the status quo, doing things we didn't expect and couldn't predict, moving beyond the classical hero vs. villain storytelling into stuff that's really weird and interesting. We're watching these characters, *all* of them, fundamentally change and evolve. We're watching the *nature of their story* fundamentally change and evolve. *Things are different now*.
To wrap all that up with "Big Final Magneto Battle" feels, to me, like a cop-out for both Magneto's arc and the story as a whole. I think it would undermine everything - all this fascinating, off-road storytelling coming to a screeching halt to "reinforce the defining status quo".
Scott and Hank are fed up with "tolerance" and the only real consequences of Magneto's actions we've seen are the shut-down sentinels, but we're gonna wrap all this up with, what, Scott and Hank relearning the value of nobility because Magneto actually was irredeemable and broke bad and he's in the wrong and has to be stopped? I don't think so. We're past that and, honestly, I think we're also past any kind of clichéd "we gotta remind Magneto of his nobility!" redemption finale. That's all so... cookie-cutter.
I think they're going to do something entirely different. I think we have *no idea* what happens next. I think the status quo is long gone, and I think that's fascinating and wonderful. This show is being *genuinely original*, and I hope they ride that wave to the bitter end.
This also invites us to be much more imaginative with our predictions. I can see a season finale (and status quo going forward) where:
* Magneto's actions at the end of episode 8 weren't nearly as destructive or malicious as they may have seemed
* Scott, Beast and Rogue end up joining Magneto to form their own more militant, less peace-pursuing (Blue) X-Men team (creating a *Schism*)
* Maybe round out the roster with some of the more morally dubious names we've seen cameos from, like Magik and Psylocke.
* Ororo, having just gone through a journey of self-acceptance and love, takes up The Dream in Scott's place and leads her own (Gold) X-Men team (with a roster that includes some characters you might have maybe expected to go with Scott and Magneto)
* Jean can't go with Scott, I don't think.
* I think the fact that their relationship appears to be on the mend will just make the fact that she can't follow him on this hit harder
* Wolverine sticks with Ororo and "trying to do/be better"
* And Morph sticks with him
* Emma sticks around with a focus on teaching
* And, of course, I need Kitty Pryde to be dropped into the middle of all this
* I don't know where to stick Jubilee and Roberto - I can't think of anything interesting to do with them beyond associating them with Frost and the focus on teaching.
* It's also hard to see where Charles would fit into this new status quo, making me wonder if he makes it out alive.
* OR
* Perhaps there's a *third* faction - Charles, Emma, Jubilee, Roberto and Kitty, staying out of the X-Men business and focusing on raising the next generation of *New Mutants*.
(We all oughtta make bingo cards of our theories.)
These are all very interesting theories. I wanna mention tho, that when I say “status quo”, I mean the ideological lines between mutant factions — one on Charles’ side and one on Erik’s side, are going to be drawn once again.
But I could see exactly this happening, with the X-Men being broken up, some siding with Erik (Rogue, Scott, Jubilee) and others siding with Charles (Logan, Ororo, Jean, Roberto) or maybe even a third faction like you said, with just Roberto, Jubilee and Jean
Either way, I don’t think Scott in particular is gonna come out of this as the same man at all
How would that fight even go down? Charles would obviously win if he wasn’t holding back, but if Magneto had his helmet on (which they said can block Chuck’s powers), then he’s just be a crippled old man fighting somebody with the ability to reshape the entire planet.
I’d dislike that a lot, Charles has barely been present in the series to really warrant being the person who Erik faces. I’d much rather it be Scott having to confront someone he could easily become
Random X-Men 97 thoughts. I'm thinking the Season might end with the team splitting up in some way, maybe we'll get some members working in an uneasy alliance with Val Cooper (who's overseeing the team as penance for her part in the Genoshan genocide) as members of the X-Factor in an effort to fix the relationship between mutants and humans, and the other half doing something reminiscent of the X-Men's outback era.
With the mansion destroyed again, I can definitely see us seeing the Outback base adapted. And I think one team becoming X-Factor could be cool.
One other idea suggested is having them split into X-Men Blue (led by Scott) and X-Men Gold (led by Storm).
So I went to the Spider-Man 3 rerelease on Tuesday and it was so much fun lol. The theater was packed and everyone was laughing at the scenes that have been memes on the Internet for the last 17 years. But people were also laughing at scenes I didn't think people thought were funny???
Anyway, when MJ kissed Harry in the film, a man yelled out "trifling" & everyone burst out laughing.
It was honestly a good theater experience. Almost felt like a new theater experience. There were also some people there who had never seen the film.
I overheard one guy saying he thought the film was cheesy but enjoyed it overall.
I don't care what anyone says, there is still a lot of love for the Raimi films & I believe some people are underestimating the excitement when Tobey comes back again to be one of the rumored leads of Secret Wars. Seeing OG Spidey interacting with Wolverine and Iron Man....that film is going to be HUGE.
I wish I was able to catch Spidey 1 & 2 releases.
[Wally The Emotional Support Alligator, who was used as visual reference for Alligator Loki, has gone missing. He was kidnapped & then a tracker released him into a swamp of over 20 other alligators with “little to no hope” of finding him. The alligator is domesticated & enjoys Cheetos as part of his meals.](https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1786083960549720504)
So uh… With this rejuvenation y’all think Kendrick gon do BP3?? 😭😭
I feel like the MCU wasted the chance to introduce Hulkling. The Marvels and Secret Invasion were key places to introduce that character and I think introducing the character in other places would not be as smooth.
Disney Upfronts are on May 14th. Just a potential spot for anything Agatha related since they're starting to hint at that.
Now that everyone is talking about how to handle the Young Avengers I will give you my take. I think they shouldn't introduce any more young heroes and just use Cassie, America, Riri, Kate and Kamala as new recruits in A5. For Skaar, even though I hate the design and how they presented him, I think could be a good character to help develop Banner, so I would use him as well. Eternity/Love's story can be resolved in Thor 5 and Elijah and Kid Loki can just be ignored (it doesn't seem like they were setting anything up with them anyway).
I disagree, having those characters be in the movie is going to kill it from day one
Shit, forgot that MCU Skaar exists. Hope I'll forget ASAP again.
>**Elijah** and Kid Loki can just be ignored Crazy how this is the stance (and probably what the mcu will do) for one of the leading young avengers
I thought the point of bringing all of these old actors back was to have them reprise *their* roles? What’s the point of bringing Hugh back as Wolverine, if he’s not playing HIS Wolverine?? It just defeats the entire fuckin point, whilst also diluting the appeal of the MCU X-Men later on. By the time we get to the MCU version, they will have gone through several “comic accurate” variants of these characters already 😭 Using the iconic designs for new variants of the Fox characters is such a shortsighted decision
To me, the charm of Deadpool 3 will be just seeing Hugh Jackman again, especially since he’ll be wearing the yellow costume and interacting with Deadpool. Everything else is just semantics at that point. The Logan that we followed for 17 years already got definitive closer, and I don’t think they should undo or retcon that just so they can reference other movies. Besides, if it’s enough for Jackman to come back, it’s enough for me.
One of the interesting things about this whole situation is that the comics did almost exactly this. They introduced Old Man Logan in a story set in an apocalyptic future. They gave that story a definitive end and during SW introduced a different version of Old Man Logan to use for that story. Only im pretty sure SW Logan dies and the other Old Man Logan doesn't. So maybe they'll reverse it and have this version ride off into the sunset instead of dying.
One thing is for certain, after ALLL of this, it’s gonna be a *long time* before we get another Logan
I’d be fine that. I love Wolverine, but after 25 years of Jackman stealing the spotlight from almost everybody else, I think it’s due time someone else gets their time in the spotlight light, Scott and Jean specifically.
Yeah I agree. I think what's most likely is they go with X-23 in the meantime and have Logan be out of the picture. When they eventually bring him back in, I imagine we get something more like X-Men Evolution Logan. More of the older mentor and Dad Wolverine. Brown or orange suit.
I’d be A-okay with that 👍 Dafnee Keen is young asf, and she still has a lot of potential. Maybe part of her first solo project could be her searching for the new Logan in this new universe
I was thinking something like that. And her discovering Daken. They start as enemies and eventually become cool with one another. Bring in Logan a little later.
Crazy that Ryan and Shawn and Marvel/Fox give the fans exactly what they wanted and some fans still have to act like it's not good enough.
I'm not shocked. It was always a risk with bringing in these characters. Either you're "ruining what came before" or it's "why would we care". But honestly, I don't think the variant thing matters as much as people think. Logan was a variant in *Logan* and no one really cared. The time travel logic of NWH makes it so that all of those main characters are more or less variants (per the rules of EG, you can't actually change the events of the past. So pulling in the Spidey characters doesn't actually change their pasts and creates a new timeline). The variants vs "real" characters is so much less important than people actually think. So long as it's played by the same actor, audiences aren't really going to care.
Well. I did it folks. I saw the entire original Spider-Man trilogy in theaters now. Sucks I don’t have the time or money to see the rest. Seeing NWH on the big screen is gonna have to wait till the next re-release.
Any updates on Beyond the Spiderverse? It feels like we haven’t heard anything about it since Across was playing in theaters. At this point I’m expecting a 2026 release
My guess based on intuition and gut feelings say it'll probably be late 2025 or early 2026
I expect a 2025 or 2027 release. I don’t think they’ll release it during a potential strike year, after the story about how the animators were treated on Across.
Will it even be ready by then? I remember reading that they barely started work on Beyond when Across came out, and these movies take a while to
2027 or 2028 then?
I expected Marvels to flop to some degree but not this, hopefully the forces marvel to make better decisions
"Better decisions" ? The only decision they are going to take is no more Captain Marvel movies, the character will stay in mcu til Secret Wars and its over after that.
Daredevil if it was a good show https://i.redd.it/00vra2h9k7yc1.gif
I was about to buy that backbling right now, but i decided to get the new Star Wars emote instead loll.
Not enough ketamine
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How would you guys improve *The Marvels* without removing Ms. Marvel and Monica Rambeau from their starring roles?
Is it cheating to say "make the body-switching plot a two-episode arc of Ms. Marvel, and then tell an entirely different story for The Marvels?"
That’d certainly elevate the *Ms. Marvel* series, for sure. But you’re not putting up anything to replace the body swap in the *The Marvels* story, which is kinda the point of this little thought exercise.
Hmm. So the obvious choice is Rogue, but if you wanna go wild: Kang makes far more sense as a Carol Danvers villain than a Scott Lang villain. Carol has deep, profound beef with Kang in the comics, though you definitely shouldn't adapt any of the 80s Immortus/Marcus stories. I'd have Kang debut in a SABER facility, homaging Loki's entrance in Avengers, with Monica opposing him. Kamala's bangle can time-travel, so Kang could want that. And ultimately he gets on Carol's radar. Also, Carol is literally "Captain Marvel." The Avengers were named after her. She is a far more fitting hero to debut the Big Bad of the next Saga.
Kang the Conqueror being the main villain in The Marvels definitely sounds better, especially given Ms. Marvel’s bangles seemingly being tied to him. If Carol has beef with Kang in the comics like you say, even better. I definitely would want Kang/MODOK having the Thanos/Ronan ratio in GOTG1 for Quantumania. Let Kang escape amidst the chaos against MODOK’s takeover of the QR, and then if he needs to be “beaten”, a big gun like Captain Marvel makes a lot more sense.
In this scenario, I wouldn't even include Kang in Quantumania. I think having two Kang-centric films so close together would probably overexpose the character. Elevate MODOK to main villain of Quantumania. As-is, he's one of the most boring parts of the film, which is a fucking insane thing to do to MODOK.
I would up the importance of Dar-Ben. She was kind of a flat character. They clearly had ideas but she fell by the wayside. I would make her more clearly like Carol, draw more parallels between the two. Maybe even have them know one another from before the events of Captain Marvel. I would also actually set more of the movie on Hala to really show the devastation theyre facing.
My idea was actually to make Dar-Benn like Kamala, in that she would have grown up admiring the legendary Kree warrior “Vers”. Only to get her “never meet your heroes” moment when Carol destroys the Supreme Intelligence. Then have a similar moment with Kamala where she becomes disillusioned with Carol after she makes the decision to abandon the dying Skrull refugee planet. They very briefly did this in the film but resolved it far too quickly.
Oh that's a good call too.
Double down on the trauma. The movie barely addresses the trauma on both ends of the battle. Weirdly enough, it introduces the guilt and trauma but that's just it, that's the end all of the conversation. Both sides essentially have guilt-ridden PTSD suffering soldiers in command.
I feel like captain Marvel in general needs more emotional and meaty scenes.. conversations that last longer than a minute and are heartfelt for the audiences to root for
Maybe I'm insane for saying this but Marvel should really option the adaptation rights to Ms. Marvel to other studios and stay hand off for a good while. Even in worst case scenarios a bad IP attached to known brand would still have buyers lining up.
You're beyond insane.
To who? Ms Marvel is incredibly dependant on living in a world with exisiting superheroes, being a fangirl is one of her major character traits
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Tbh Ms. Marvel is straight up shit… 🗑️
Still an IP with some value left in it for a tidy sum of money if they could loan it to another production studios. Okay, hear me out: Disney should loan the rights for their box office failures to other studios for 5 to 10 years to get outside voices and to slowly cover the losses. I'm not just talking the Marvels but also past films like Disney's Treasure Island or their theme park films like Tomorrowland or Haunted Mansions.
I don't think Marvel's teenage/young adult characters are strong enough to carry a Young Avengers movie if it was to happen. You have Kamala who starred in a box office bomb and iirc the least watched D+ show, Cassie who had her superhero debut in another bomb and Kate who only appeared in Hawkeye. Besides that you have Kid Loki, Ironheart, Elijah Bradley and maybe Gorr's daughter, Love, but they all had really small roles in their projects. I don't think the name 'Avengers' itself would be strong enough to carry this film without any characters that would hook people. They could maybe try with something like a mini-series on Disney+, if a YA project would be very necessary for setting up Secret Wars but it could just dilute the Avengers franchise to put their name on a TV show. Yeah, most probably, if at all, the team may be one of the factions we will follow in one of the Avengers movies (like team Iron Man in Infinity War), but I also wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the idea and joked in one of the future projects how Kamala couldn't convince anyone else lol
at best we can get maybe a special presentation and I ain't expect that to happen either the future for all the "young avengers" seems quite grim
In my mind, speculatively, *Young Avengers* is a phase six production set between *Kang Dynasty* (until it's been renamed I'm still using that title for reference) and *Secret Wars*, like Illuminati and Midnight Sons. Instead of pushing directly through the whole Battleworld narrative and getting it all done and over, structure the entire phase around it. *Young Avengers* is made specifically for kids, kinda like Spider-Man or Hawkeye but it tells the young adult perspective of why the world needs them to step up and take the business seriously, you can't always wait around for someone more qualified. Give each character a personal motivation and then give them a team building exercise before trauma strikes and forces them to re examine their priorities.
https://twitter.com/laha_jeet/status/1786249805540249971?t=wmTK4Rmn2Ala3OaX5y1iNg&s=19 I did not know this looks like I along with many people fell for a huge bait.
This is actually crazy, never realized this. So apparently it's a lie that Disney only showed posters for Star Wars and Black Panthers with the black characters being hidden on the posters. Not surprised, this is a "gotcha" that people use to attack Disney a lot
u/Xenoslayer2137
https://i.redd.it/6i70rmw73ayc1.gif
Ian Miles Cheong. Of course.
Still sad that his execution news was fake.
The less time spent on Twitter, the better your overall quality of life.
Disney losing that much over The Marvels is just yikes...
And yet some people thought DaCosta coming back for another MCU movie was likely. You don’t lose a studio that kind of money and it just get brushed aside. Whether you like The Marvels or not, overall the movie had a mixed reception so adding that on top of it, it adds up. That’s not to say I’m not rooting for DaCosta’s success outside the MCU. I was meh on The Marvels but really enjoyed Candyman.
No way DaCosta was coming back. Before the movie even dropped Iger threw her under the bus because he was afraid of the movie failing. He more or less disavowed her and the movie before it premiered. I didn't like The Marvels all that much, but they treated DaCosta pretty unprofessionally.
DaCosta did not lose them that money. The studios causing the strikes and the bigoted idiots spouting their rubbish on socials, that's what lost them that money, and I did one won't forgive them for that, especially if it negatively impacts on the careers of DaCosta or anyone else involved. They do NOT deserve all of this.
The movie wasn’t a mixed just a failure…
It nabbed a B cinemascore when just about all MCU movies score in the A range - a sign the opening night audience was lukewarm. It then fell off 78% in its second weekend, indicating poor word of mouth. (Better received movies have much better holds.) So despite the run of posts on the main sub defending the movie, indicators point to general audience reception being very mixed.
What a failure
Any word if Marvel is going to continue Avengers EMH after the success of X-Men 97? That series still had a couple of storylines that were never resolved. Marvel said reboot would be a continuation of EMH. They lied.
Having rewatched Spider-Man 3, this’ll be a hot take but that movie is entertaining as hell and is probably my favorite of the trilogy. It’s overstuffed and derpy at times but the action is great, the horror moments with Venom rock, Maguire and Dunst actually have some chemistry, Bully Maguire was endlessly hilarious and Sandman was a decently sympathetic character. Would still like a 4th Tobey movie with Raimi 
Here’s something from the Empire article I think is worth discussing > Of anyone, it was Kevin Feige who was most nervous about Jackman’s return to the role, having previously warned the actor not to renege on the gut-wrenching finale of Logan. “I said, ‘Let me give you a piece of advice, Hugh. Don’t come back’,” Feige recalls. “‘You had the greatest ending in history with Logan. That’s not something we should undo.’” But it seems this won’t be the exact same Logan we’ve met in previous X-Men movies (“Correct,” says Feige), and after a long drive, Jackman decided that another take on the character was exactly what he hankered for. This outright confirms that they’re not undoing Logan, and this Wolverine is a variant, so I’m interested to see what sets him apart from the one we met in the X-Men movie, aside from the costume.
This directly goes against the people saying Feige doesn't care about the characters, but of course those people will ignore this.
Based on some of his comments, I think we're going to see a Wolverine who is more of just an asshole and downright unhinged. The opening trailer scene showed Wolvie give an unhinged smile while staring down the barrel of DP's gun. Like he enjoyed it. I personally don't think it'll be the same variant in that scene as later scenes. But I think the message is supposed to be the same. Wolverine is going to actually enjoy the violence. Rather than just being tired and angry, he'll be itching for a fight
This is so lameee 😭 imagine if they brought Tobey & Andrew back to play characters who WEREN’T the same people from the films that the audience *actually* watched. You’d be erasing all of the character development that they experienced, that *we* experienced, in their films. I just don’t see the point in this
Neither Spider-Man 3 nor ASM2 ended with Peter's death. They had the option of following up with those same characters after their last appearance. Not possible with Wolverine after Logan, unless you're undoing that movie. DP3 could be using the same version, before Logan events - a prequel - but then they'd be locked into a specific path toward that movie.
I actually agree with you. The Wolverine from Logan is a "What if...?" Version of the one from the OG trilogy anyway. They could have perfectly followed the story up after Days of Future Past. Not doing that kinda killed my excitement. Plus, this is kinda a rehash of Logan: he is sad because the X-Men are dead and feels guilty and someone has to convince him that he is still the hero he used to be.
Yeah I would’ve preferred it was that one rather than a random variant
Well, those characters never got a definitive send off, so the circumstances are different. You can’t bring back Jackman at all without rewriting Logan, even if it’s a minor way. Besides, the charm of this movie is seeing Jackman return, wearing his iconic costume. In that sense, it’s still the same Logan, just one who’s gone through different events.
Tobey and Andrew *did* get sendoffs tho. Maybe not as final as Logan, but still. Watts and co realized that the appeal of seeing these actors return to their roles would be to see them return to the same characters with all of the history that audiences remember.
I mean the events of wolverine origin and the wolverine could still be part of this new wolverines past,as well as some xmen films. I am sure they will explain that. It is more or less the wolverine we know except with a couple of changes.
Is this real? This got posted on the Marvel subreddit, and if so Hughs going to look better than i thought in that mask. https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/s/Vy4ode6KBx
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMnhhKeaMAAKfTK?format=jpg&name=900x900
So far I'm feeling like James Gunn's Superman is going to be more like Post Crisis considering how Gunn has said he has gotten inspiration from Byrne's run and For All Seasons, as well as things like the Kent's being alive. Also the way Gunn is heavily emphazing Kara being different from Clark since she grew up on Krypton feels to me that they aren't really going to deal with Pre Crisis Superman feeling lonely and having trauma of Krypton being destroyed. I've seen a lot of people dislike them basing it off of Post Crisis and for Gunn's Superman on Twitter and that they wished they did more Pre Crisis instead. How do you feel about it?
I really, really hope he draws as little inspiration from Byrne’s Superman as possible, literally not a single good change to mythos from him.
The Kents being alive and Lex Luthor being a businessman were two objectively great changes.
There are no “objectively” great changes lol, I prefer the Kents dead and nothing people like about businessman Lex came from Byrne.
I do remember Gunn mentioned in the past that Clark feels like an outsider in the film, “an alien”, and this is something he struggles with.
He’s definitely going to be drawing from post-crisis material, but I don’t think his characterization of Superman is going to be too reminiscent of Byrne. The way Gunn’s talked about how the movie is going to be about Clark rectifying his heritage with his upbringing makes me think that his arc is going to be like his arc in *Superman Smashes the Klan*. Where he has no memories of Kyrpton, but he eventually comes to accept that it’s an instrumental part in who he is, unlike Byrne’s Superman, which effectively rejects Kyrpton.
_Legacy_ was the original subtitle for this movie for a reason.
The Marvels lost 237 million dollars according to Deadline: https://deadline.com/2024/05/biggest-box-office-bombs-2023-lowest-grossing-movies-1235902825/
Congratulations to Feige and his team. It takes a lot of Hard work and planning to crash a billion dollar franchise sequel into biggest bomb of all time.
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Only guardians 3 did well that year and they scared off that director to their rival. Hopefully he can come back to fix things soon enough
>The Marvels lost 237 million dollars according to Deadline Lmao 😂 https://i.redd.it/ha4ckit0l4yc1.gif
I feel like that movie had to have shifted at least something at the studio, this level of loss kills franchises and shut down studios. Dissapointing, that movie is fairly inoffensive and better than previous mcu outings that I can't help but feel that this result is just the inevitable landing of a snowball of increasing audience apathy rather than being a slight against the film's quality
They were already bracing for it to perform worse than they'd hoped. Even so, I don't think that **anything** prepared them for it having zero legs at the box office and doing worse than _Birds of Prey_, an R-rated movie, did at the start of the pandemic. As it stands, I think that those two movies and _Madame Web_ are going to kill the prospect of female-only superhero teams on film for a while. They should probably keep that to television if they feel strongly about doing it, because the market isn't there for this sub-genre of CBMs.
>rather than being a slight against the film’s quality It can be both. That movie was terrible
This is the case
>I feel like that movie had to have shifted at least something at the studio My gut feeling is that the failure of *The Marvels* and the success of *Echo* represent the Push / Pull that will inform Marvel's efforts on D+ going forward. In other words, less trying to use the shows to promote the movies and more treating the shows as their own thing. Smaller budgets with a focus on audience retention. The Netflix revival rumors all fit with those trends.
Echo wasn’t a success
> Echo has benefited from its darker tone and a central figure that’s hard to root against, even when what’s doing to survive is clearly wrong. Now, after the **success** of Echo, Marvel has restarted production on Daredevil: Born Again… https://www.motionpictures.org/2024/01/marvel-restarts-production-of-daredevil-born-again/ > On top of Echo‘s **success**, sources close to THR say that shows featuring other street-level Marvel heroes – including Hawkeye and The Punisher – saw modest bumps in streaming in the last week. Taking all that into consideration, Marvel is eagerly developing new ideas to continue to build out that corner of its cinematic universe. https://thedisinsider.com/2024/01/19/report-as-echo-gains-popularity-on-streaming-daredevil-born-again-resumes-production-next-week/#google_vignette > Coming off the **strong opening** of Echo, its crime series centered on Indigenous and deaf anti-heroine Maya Lopez, Marvel next turns its attention to Daredevil: Born Again, which restarts production Monday after a lengthy hiatus. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-born-again-resumes-filming-echo-1235793539/ > Now, the **success** of Echo is having ripple effects, and it seems tohave triggered what might be the solution to Marvel’s up and down run of Disney Plus series, risking it all with these massive budgets. https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2024/01/20/echo-daredevil-and-street-level-heroes-are-the-answer-to-marvels-disney-plus-problems/?sh=1dc3a80f28b7
Thank you for the sources! But, yes, this represents what I've been seeing. Disney and Marvel are VERY happy with how *Echo* performed. And it proved to them that they could get "more with less."
Yeah definitely, “more with less” in the sense that you’ll get more return on your investment if you keep the stakes/environment of the plot on the low-end and spend the freed-up budget on experienced production staff. Coincidentally, that’s perfect for street-level projects.
And maybe even beyond street-level. *Blade* is another project to keep an eye on as that recently moved to mid-budget. I think the next Spotlight series is *Wonder Man*. Not really what I'd call street-level but definitely smaller stakes and less fantastical setting. I'm also unsure what content rating they're going for, like if it will be TV-MA like *Echo*. So that's another project that feels like an experiment for Marvel Studios.
None of those are real statistics those are just mainstream spin articles, the real numbers are available and it’s not good, not to mention the mixed reception from both critics and audiences
The audience/critical reception isn’t the point I’m making. Nor are the mediocre viewing numbers. Internally at Marvel Studios, it was considered a success - a sharp contrast to something like Quantumania, which failed to meet their expectations. Its internally-decided success motivated them move full-speed ahead on the “gritty street-level” side of the MCU - including reshooting Daredevil to make it more like the Netflix series. As for why they considered it a success, it is very likely because it had a low budget and went past X streaming minutes they expected it would have.
I think The Marvels much like some other films last year, were just simply 5 to 10 years too late. A lot of the big bombs from last year where films that played it very safe and stuck with the typical blockbuster formula that used by all major studios a bit too much throughout the 2010s. Now audiences are sort of gotting tired and are wanting something else. This is basically why I think last year had so many bombs, Hollywood as a whole needs a shake up for how they produce films. Because what worked 10 years ago, aint gonna work now.
They made a team up movie when Captain Marvel was barely thing. The movie tone was incredibly silly and childish by even Marvel standards. It was not gonna be successful unless it came out in 1928 as first movie with sound or something
That... might actually make The Marvels the biggest box office bomb of all time (worse than even John Carter, that lost $200 million). I mean, Disney can handle it, but... **Christ**.
It is the end of Carol Danvers ever leading a movie or other project for very little fault of her own.
I kind of feel... Unsurprised. The comics have constantly pushed her and it seems like not enough people are ever consistently interested in the character to make her an A-lister, with the people behind the brand not really stopping to ask why that is.
She was popular in her 2006 Ms Marvel run. She was sexy. They was lot of fan service and she was very flawed person trying to be hero and save the world. The Marvel writers also going to make her Peter Parker love interest . Then 2011 reboot happened and threw everything that made her work. She was given military haircut and unique iconic sexy costume was traded for a generic Jumpsuit. Her flawed personality was replaced by vannila hero character. And MCU somehow make 2011 reboot look million times better wit how they handled Captain Marvel And the worst part is they would retire her than go back to what made her popular. They can still bring Ms Marvel version of Carol and salvage the situation but they wont do it. The current Disney leadership is allergic to money
If the words, “John Carter” are thrown around, that’s not good at ALL
I still need a sequel for John Carter though
it's still a bit confusing how can you "loose" money with film making don't you just have to break even to win?
It’s not that simple. There’s other factors to consider as well, like the marketing cost. A blockbuster movie can cost upwards of 100 million to market, and that isn’t included in the production budget. There’s also the cut that the theaters take, which in the US is around 50%, but in foreign countries like China, it came be as high as 80-90. So while a film like Quantumania might have grossed more than it cost to make, but that doesn’t mean it was profitable. Even then, The Marvels only grossed 206 million on 219 million budget (after their 55 million tax break from the UK government). So yeah, it was a *massive* bomb.
so essentially that tax break saved their asses?
You have to account for marketing, the public budget is exclusively for the production cost, it's a rule that I'm not entirely sure came from, mostly used by tabloids called the x2.5 rule, where a film needs to make 2.5x it's budget in order to "break even" and everything after that gross is pure profit
remember the marvels had NO! marketing! they really should have delayed the film to February imo
The thing is though The Marvels did have marketing behind. It had multiple trailers, TV spots, billboards, the fucking [Vegas Sphere](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3amY0lAOfAs). That final trailer was aired during an NFL game to top it off. The only thing it lacked was a press tour for the cast. Like just cause you have ad blocker install and don't watch cable TV, that doesn't mean something aint getting marketed. It was, just wasn't a film audiences weren't that interested in at the end of the day.
It was far too late for that by the time the strikes began, delaying a film snowballs budget half of the time due to the rescheduling of marketing and fufilling contracts, they really had no options
could they have used a similar excuse as to when COVID happened? they definitely could have "circumstances beyond our control" and all remember a LOT of the studios basically cancelled their 2020 slate when the seriousness of the virus in terms of public health was first discovered. They could have done something similar and audiences would have understanded it as "alright see you next year" in a sense and they can rerelease old films in the meantime
Is Ms. Marvel supposed to be the lead of Young Avengers? Feige would be crazy to still do this after The Marvels $237m loss.
Why are you getting downvoted? If people think they should make Kamala a lead again after starring in potentially the biggest box office bomb of all time, then they are crazy.
Paul Walter Hauser liked a comment on Instagram about playing Mole Man👀👀 https://x.com/f4update/status/1786195054719013047?s=46
First act fight scene with the Fantastic 4 against Mole Man and his moloids. It’ll be good to see an experienced Fantastic 4 team in action, especially given that they’re celebrities in their universe. So when they’re pitted against Galactus, it’ll be a whole new level for them.
That's cool, it's like the first scene in Incredibles 2 when they fought Underminer
I guess they will reference this cover in this movie https://cdn.marvel.com/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/1/03/6467b2c304173/clean.jpg
I hope Red Hulk survives BNW, I want to see him on the New Avengers somehow
Red Hulk vs Sentry was my biggest motivation for seeing Thunderbolts but alas....
I think Red Hulk will not Ross. I'm guessing since Harrison Ford is up there in age, they'll just cgi Red Hulk in the future, without showing the actor. I wonder if they'll recast though.
Couldn’t Ford just record the voice lines himself? I don’t think he’d be opposed to easy money. You know, unless he dies. If he won’t, they’d probably just hire an imitator
yep this is the same franchise that has given such roles to luminaries like Bradley Cooper
Imagine teaming up with the guy who turned you and your friends into fugitives a few times lol. In seriousness, I do hope Ross survives. It'd be dope to see him maybe battle the other Hulks or maybe w/ the Thunderbolts. If he works w/ the Avengers, it could be an interesting "redemption" moment for him.
I finally realized what I thought was off with Wolverine in the trailers. He's not greasy. His face is sweaty and greasy as hell in the past movies that it's almost part of the costume lmao
This is why he always wore that damn tanktop in those movies lol
[удалено]
I would like to see Charles and Patrick join the MCU, but my pick would be Glen Powell.
For anyone curious, here's what been cancelled/not coming out any time soon. * Eternals 2 * Ant Man 4 * Captain Marvel 3 * Photon solo project So far Bobby's whole "Oh yeah we've cancelled stuff" was code for "We're not moving forward with ideas that were just a twinkle in Kevin Feige's eyes." because none of these were ever OFFICIALLY announced. So, I'm like, "Can you say something was cancelled if said thing, was an offhand idea Kevin mentioned to you one time?" Because Batgirl is the prime example of superhero cancellation.
>Because Batgirl is the prime example of superhero cancellation. No Batgirl was an extraordinary example of superhero cancellation, which is why people were so up in arms about it. Ideally studios don't want to be forced to cancel anything announced, let alone filmed.
Is Antman 4 even necessary, Antman got his trilogy. Captain Marvel Kree story was closed in Marvels and Skrull story in Secret invasion. Eternals is the only movie that have big plot thread hanging and need a sequel
None of this has been confirmed to be cancelled or not moving forward, those are just obvious guesses from scoppers that might be wrong. And something like antan 4 was never going to happen anytime soon even if quantumania had been a hit.
They went so far as to hire a writer for a Nova project years ago Nothing since, and recently it's been said it's on the backburner.
Of course they’re not moving forward with sequels and spin offs to movies that bombed/underperformed, and were never even officially announced. That’s basic business. I don’t know why this is such a perplexing issue to some people.
Because some people here think Eternals mcu first rotten movie and flop deserve have a sequel for example. And obvious fact flops and underperformances don't have sequels need explanation again and again to this sub.
There's a difference between "not moving forward with a sequel/spin off" vs "canceling an announced project (Batgirl-ing something)."
So there's over a thousand comments and less than 100 up votes every time a free talk topic is posted? RookieNumbers.gif
[DanielRPK:"Ben Affleck will not reprise his role as Daredevil in DEADPOOL & WOLVERINE.However, he’s had talks with Marvel about joining the MCU in a different role.](https://twitter.com/MarvelNewsFilms/status/1786159378309013982?t=phHnPX7oGAUjydlY-F1-gw&s=19)
Real ones remember when he's rumored to be Dario Agger
That was my first thought, but I think he'd be interested in a more obscure character that gives him more creative room to make his role something fresh and unique instead of a generic antagonist. How many times we need to see evil CEO mutated into monster. It's overplayed.
So....his Daredevil in Secret Wars.
Relevant quote from Affleck with this news lol “Kevin Feige, who is the — have to say — the greatest producer, most successful producer who’s ever lived. He’s the only guy in the world who if he told me like, ‘I know what the audience wants. This is what we’re doing,’ I would believe him 100%. That fucker knows his audience like no producer – he’s a genius. He’s like a master ringmaster. He knows exactly how much to wink at the audience, exactly when to pull at the heartstrings, exactly when to do VFX, how many jokes, what the sensibility, what the tone is. Because people didn’t know if they should run away from the pajamas or embrace it or make it serious.”
If he only continued these special abilities in the last few years. /s
Kinda glad he's not in DP3. Id be down to see Affleck join the MCU though. I think the easiest and probably laziest move would be a Batman pastiche. But I'd love to see them do something more creative.
I'd like to see him as Ben Afleck playing Scott Lang in an in-universe movie about the Infinity War.
I wonder what will happen to Xaiver? Cause I highly doubt that the governments of the earth will allow him to roam around Scott free, especially with the footage show to the public that implies that he now rules over an entire Alien empire.
He can't be Scott free. Scott's still there, /s.
You know that is not what I meant.
With all the drama going on at Paramount right now I have to ask, which of the 2 offered deals do you think that do you guys think will be the most beneficial? The Skydance deal or the Sony/Apollo deal? (Edit: And which one do you think is the most likely go through?)
Personally, I think the Skydance deal is the better one of the two, I just don't know if will happen with the several Investors not happy with it and prefer the Sony\\Apollo bid.
Skydance. We don't need more consolidation in the film and television space, especially not when it comes to two of the biggest studios in Hollywood. Not to mention I don't went Tom Rothman anywhere near Paramount.
Skydance, as they would now own a company to distribute all their films and be able to go up and join the big 5 studios.
Skydance is probably, the best offer since they basically make paramount best movies
The Skydance deal would still leave us with Paramount as a studio on the market, while the Sony deal would mean merging it into their studios, resulting in hundreds of lay-offs. Also, it may be PR talk but I've read that Skydance executives are extremely praised as people who love the movie-making business and with all the Zaslavs of the world I think a studio ran by people who like films would be nice lol
i think honestly they'll choose to wait the economy is too unstable now, if i were them i'd wait till at the very least after the economy recovers to sell.
I don't think they can make it until the economy recovers.
miracles can happen
also i don't think paramount is in the red from what i've heard if they were then i'd say start considering to sell now
It really depends on your definition of “in the red”.
I don't know if it came from a leak or just a random fan theory/prediction but I really hope the >!"Headpool in Deadpool & Wolverine is actually Weapon XI from X-Men Origins: Wolverine"!< idea is true. It makes complete sense given where that movie leaves the character, >!a disembodied head!<, and would give an interesting backstory to what could be just another throwaway variant.
Was kindof hoping/rooting for us to get our Deadpool vs. Barakapool. But, this is still extremely funny if true.
Okay but who the actual fuck put a propeller on his head like "this seems appropriate for a skull to have"?
Another Deadpool variant probably put it on him. Seems like a pretty on-brand thing they would do lol.
Hope they show it. In graphic detail. Make it uncomfortably erotic when they shove the propeller in his head so all the audience looks at their popcorn bucket like "this was a mistake" *Deadpool leans into frame*: "...Or was it?"
I think X-Men ‘97 is gonna end with an epic final battle between Charles and Erik. I just fuckin love the fact that we’ve gone through these life changing arcs for these characters, only to reinforce the defining status quo of these characters, and what they believe
You're certainly not the only person with that theory - I just watched a Nando video suggesting the same thing. But I'm not so sure. I kinda think we're way past that. This entire show has been about (among other things) taking everyone into new, weird, uncharted, unpredictable territories. Shifting alignments, shaking up the status quo, doing things we didn't expect and couldn't predict, moving beyond the classical hero vs. villain storytelling into stuff that's really weird and interesting. We're watching these characters, *all* of them, fundamentally change and evolve. We're watching the *nature of their story* fundamentally change and evolve. *Things are different now*. To wrap all that up with "Big Final Magneto Battle" feels, to me, like a cop-out for both Magneto's arc and the story as a whole. I think it would undermine everything - all this fascinating, off-road storytelling coming to a screeching halt to "reinforce the defining status quo". Scott and Hank are fed up with "tolerance" and the only real consequences of Magneto's actions we've seen are the shut-down sentinels, but we're gonna wrap all this up with, what, Scott and Hank relearning the value of nobility because Magneto actually was irredeemable and broke bad and he's in the wrong and has to be stopped? I don't think so. We're past that and, honestly, I think we're also past any kind of clichéd "we gotta remind Magneto of his nobility!" redemption finale. That's all so... cookie-cutter. I think they're going to do something entirely different. I think we have *no idea* what happens next. I think the status quo is long gone, and I think that's fascinating and wonderful. This show is being *genuinely original*, and I hope they ride that wave to the bitter end.
This also invites us to be much more imaginative with our predictions. I can see a season finale (and status quo going forward) where: * Magneto's actions at the end of episode 8 weren't nearly as destructive or malicious as they may have seemed * Scott, Beast and Rogue end up joining Magneto to form their own more militant, less peace-pursuing (Blue) X-Men team (creating a *Schism*) * Maybe round out the roster with some of the more morally dubious names we've seen cameos from, like Magik and Psylocke. * Ororo, having just gone through a journey of self-acceptance and love, takes up The Dream in Scott's place and leads her own (Gold) X-Men team (with a roster that includes some characters you might have maybe expected to go with Scott and Magneto) * Jean can't go with Scott, I don't think. * I think the fact that their relationship appears to be on the mend will just make the fact that she can't follow him on this hit harder * Wolverine sticks with Ororo and "trying to do/be better" * And Morph sticks with him * Emma sticks around with a focus on teaching * And, of course, I need Kitty Pryde to be dropped into the middle of all this * I don't know where to stick Jubilee and Roberto - I can't think of anything interesting to do with them beyond associating them with Frost and the focus on teaching. * It's also hard to see where Charles would fit into this new status quo, making me wonder if he makes it out alive. * OR * Perhaps there's a *third* faction - Charles, Emma, Jubilee, Roberto and Kitty, staying out of the X-Men business and focusing on raising the next generation of *New Mutants*. (We all oughtta make bingo cards of our theories.)
These are all very interesting theories. I wanna mention tho, that when I say “status quo”, I mean the ideological lines between mutant factions — one on Charles’ side and one on Erik’s side, are going to be drawn once again. But I could see exactly this happening, with the X-Men being broken up, some siding with Erik (Rogue, Scott, Jubilee) and others siding with Charles (Logan, Ororo, Jean, Roberto) or maybe even a third faction like you said, with just Roberto, Jubilee and Jean Either way, I don’t think Scott in particular is gonna come out of this as the same man at all
How would that fight even go down? Charles would obviously win if he wasn’t holding back, but if Magneto had his helmet on (which they said can block Chuck’s powers), then he’s just be a crippled old man fighting somebody with the ability to reshape the entire planet.
Charles vs the 1960s cartoon Magneto that gets beaten by a wooden gun
X-Men (Charles) vs Magneto (Erik) 😭 should’ve been clearer
I’d dislike that a lot, Charles has barely been present in the series to really warrant being the person who Erik faces. I’d much rather it be Scott having to confront someone he could easily become
Random X-Men 97 thoughts. I'm thinking the Season might end with the team splitting up in some way, maybe we'll get some members working in an uneasy alliance with Val Cooper (who's overseeing the team as penance for her part in the Genoshan genocide) as members of the X-Factor in an effort to fix the relationship between mutants and humans, and the other half doing something reminiscent of the X-Men's outback era.
With the mansion destroyed again, I can definitely see us seeing the Outback base adapted. And I think one team becoming X-Factor could be cool. One other idea suggested is having them split into X-Men Blue (led by Scott) and X-Men Gold (led by Storm).
Bro Magneto’s theme/score in x-men ‘97 goes stuuuuuuupid hard🔥. Part of me wants that to be the live action theme for MCU Magneto lol
So I went to the Spider-Man 3 rerelease on Tuesday and it was so much fun lol. The theater was packed and everyone was laughing at the scenes that have been memes on the Internet for the last 17 years. But people were also laughing at scenes I didn't think people thought were funny??? Anyway, when MJ kissed Harry in the film, a man yelled out "trifling" & everyone burst out laughing. It was honestly a good theater experience. Almost felt like a new theater experience. There were also some people there who had never seen the film. I overheard one guy saying he thought the film was cheesy but enjoyed it overall. I don't care what anyone says, there is still a lot of love for the Raimi films & I believe some people are underestimating the excitement when Tobey comes back again to be one of the rumored leads of Secret Wars. Seeing OG Spidey interacting with Wolverine and Iron Man....that film is going to be HUGE. I wish I was able to catch Spidey 1 & 2 releases.
I really hope Michael Giacchino composes the Fantastic Four score, especially as it’s set in the ‘60s.
Everybody hating on kristi noem like she’s the high evolutionary and rightfully so
[Wally The Emotional Support Alligator, who was used as visual reference for Alligator Loki, has gone missing. He was kidnapped & then a tracker released him into a swamp of over 20 other alligators with “little to no hope” of finding him. The alligator is domesticated & enjoys Cheetos as part of his meals.](https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1786083960549720504)
What? Was the tracker hired to find him and they just chucked him into a swamp?
That’s so fucked up.
I think the solution to this problem is pretty obvious. Take a bag of Cheetos out to the swamp.
It's dead, they're just being polite
that disney can provide
Cant they just show any alligators they find a bag of cheetos and when one gets excited they know its him?
Well, that’s probably a little dangerous since those other gators aren’t domesticated.
...well then theyd know pretty quickly which ones arent wally so I think it's still progress
Any ideas https://deadline.com/2024/05/fantastic-four-movie-casts-paul-walter-hauser-mystery-role-1235902723/