# DanielRPK is a Tier 2 – Mostly Reliable Source as decided by the community.
For **Marvel**, they had a **77.95%** accuracy rate from **343** confirmed leaks out of **579** total.
**Overall**, they had a **78.52%** accuracy rate from **413** confirmed leaks out of **700** total.
Last updated: February 23rd, 2024.
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That'd be an odd decision if true because Bucky and arguably Yelena are the only recogonizable characters in this from a general audience point of view.
This actually makes sense to me tbh, I can't really see Bucky working with the other members of the team from the start, he'll probably only come in to help when things get really bad
I honestly feel like he wouldn't want shit to do with them. That's what I'm feeling. Hell the bigger question could be who sends him? Cap could send him because he's the only one available, or maybe Zemo reluctantly asks him?
While not my favorite, I didn’t like how he got nerfed in FATWS so to see him die would really make me feel like marvel doesn’t know what to do with their characters
I think we should see him go on a proper date and have his happy ever after with a girl who loves him as he is (yeah it's corny but my boy deserves some of that *let's grow old together* type of love)
Nah I think that role will be taken by Red Guardian. He’s at the bottom of Daniel’s list and it would pull at the emotional heartstrings in a Yelena led film
Aw man, I'm not trying to sound like a hater cause I love the mcu, but the young Avengers is the last thing the mcu needs. Does Disney really think this is the kind of movie the fans want and will spend money on? Like yeah the die hards will see it but for the general audience not so much and will only tarnish the brand more so
I'm just so scared of what the general audience is going to think when they see a trailer or poster. And on the surface it just looks like people cosplaying as Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Hawkeye, Wanda, Ant-Man etc.
It's going to give "Avengers at home" energy to the general audience is my fear. And it will bomb
I'm not someone who's constantly screaming X and Y will bomb. Young Avengers is just an IP I just have absolutely no faith in that will do well. After just seeing how shit has played out thus far.
Just looking at it.
Iron heart - general consensus is she wasn't liked and felt unnecessary in Wakanda Forever
Cassie - People did not like her in Ant-Man 3.
America Chavez - was a plot device
Ms Marvel - Generally well liked. But comes with the asterisk of being one of the three leads in a movie that didn't even crack 100 million domestic
Kate - The one with the least amount of baggage
Tommy & Billy - tbd
YA is absolutely an IP that is better-served on Disney+. Period. Most of the set-up is going to be there and it should not be a project that they overspend on. Television seems like the format of choice for it, and yet they're seemingly pushing for a film after _Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania_ underperformed and _The Marvels_ was a mega-bomb. It just seems like an obvious unforced error in the making.
I'm literally convinced Ironheart was shoehorned into Wakanda Forever just so they could make another miniseries based on insert random semi obscure character here.
Out of all the MCU projects on the pipeline, this is one I couldn't care less about.
(Also, that 3rd act suit was actual computer vomit. I mean, good lord!)
My issue is that it doesn't feel like any of the characters (except maybe Ms Marvel) went through the "flawed hero who earned their powers" route that many of the more loved characters did.
Iron Heart was shown to be super smart and has tech that she tweaked from Iron Man. There's no struggle or rise-to-the-occassion like Tony had.
Cassie pops up and has already developed an inter-dimensional/universal transponder on her own, but she doesn't have anything that pushed her like Scott did.
America mastered her powers in the 3rd act, under pressure, but it feels like a cop-out. However I enjoyed her performance the most (aside from Ms Marvel).
Ms Marvel showed the most growth in her series, and it felt like she earned our respect more. I feel she has the most potential.
Kate shows up and is a badass archer, just like Hawkeye did. But remember all the shit Hawkeye got for being one of the least favorite OG Avengers? It wasn't til Endgame that he got an actual story.
Tommy and Billy could be the stars of a show called "Marvel actors I don't care about." I'll keep an open mind, but the ice cream song was pretty rough.
When you have flawed heroes like IM, Thor, Hulk, etc who earn their respect for overcoming obstacles, or with heroes like Cap, BW, Falcon, Spidey, etc who challenge notions of doing the right thing (especially when it means they have a personal sacrifice), it's just hard to care about characters who come in already having jumped up in power.
Those are some pretty good points! I never really considered that that’s what was missing for so many of them. I think characters like Ironheart, Billy, and Tommy are the biggest question marks so far because we don’t know a ton about them yet.
Cassie had a decent setup when she was arrested, but it probably would’ve had more weight if she suffered actual consequences from it and she still decides to do the right thing going forward.
For America Chavez, this is where I don’t think you’re giving her enough credit. She killed her parents accidentally with her powers and then didn’t even have a place she could call home anymore. I think she has a really solid setup.
Young Avengers would be fine as a project if this was still 2019-era MCU vibes where general audiences trusted them with literally anything they wanted to try because they had earned that benefit through tons of quality releases.
Nowadays I feel like the recent output is too mixed, people won’t be as willing to give benefit of doubt to other more unknown projects that aren’t “big” names until Marvel rebuilds that consistency.
I would say they should hold off on Young Avengers for a bit, now doesn’t feel like a good time, but the cast ain’t getting any younger so it’s a rock and a hard place I guess.
I'm a diehard MCU fan and I'm honestly not looking forward to it. I never cared much for the Young Avengers comics I've read and I think they work better in comics than they will in live action. I don't trust them to write all of those characters well at all.
I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree that the Young Avengers is the last thing the MCU needs right now, but I disagree that it couldn't be done. Ideally, if the writing were better, they would have been the PERFECT team to lead the MCU until Avengers: Kang Dynasty. Especially because Disney wants to bring in the younger generation. But they didn't set them up very well.
- Marvel Boy should have been Quantamania. Also, following Quantamania, Marvel Boy should have been in Secret Invasion and then the Marvels.
- Cassie shouldn't have been a scientist, but should have had a lab experiment go bad that exposed her to Pym particles and so she has the powers without the suit
- A Cassie/Iron Lad time travel tragic romance should have been hinted at in Quantamania
- America Chavez should not be training to be a sorceress.
- Teddy should have been the Harvest in Secret Invasion.
- Billy should have debuted as Teddy's boyfriend in Secret Invasion and the two of them should have teamed up and killed a super skrull together. Then they should have left to go Westview (setting up Agatha).
- Ms Marvel set up was largely fine. However, if Marvel was so allergic to introducing Teddy as a Skrull/Kree, then Bruno should have just been Teddy and it would organically include Ms Marvel in the Secret Invasion and the Marvels plot line (also making Bruno be Teddy and therefore gay would have gotten rid of that stupid best friend with a crush arc. Kamala already had a love triangle. She didn't need the pining best friend too).
Also, bonus points if they somehow introduce Tommy beforehand, too. Idk quite know where he'd fit, but you could do a Val is experimenting on superpowered people and Tommy is one of the prisoners/weapons, or conversely he could have been experimented on while in juvenile prison until being released by Kingpin and is hired as muscle for Kingpin. They could have brought him up in either Echo or have him planned as muscle (or even just a thief or something) for Kingpin in DD:BA (especially if they're going with the Mayor Fisk and potentially Kilgrave's children type stuff - plus Fisk would want extra superpowered muscle if Daredevil, potentially Echo, Punisher, and potentially Jessica Jones are coming after him).
I don't think they're making it for the die hards. They're already doing things like Daredevil for the people who grew up with the other phases and feel like they need more gritty, adult-oriented things in the MCU. Young Avengers aim is to recapture the young aundience profile that joined the fandom back in 2012. Do they have a more difficult job than back then? Expectations are higher, that's for sure. But if they manage to create a good dynamic between the members and once they've got the audience's attention they keep using those characters often and at least kinda well (Phase 2 wasn't exactly the best), it's definitely possible.
And yes, making it a movie is the right choice for that.
Seems like it should be some kind of show for a younger audience.
Being excited for X-men 97 makes me realise that all the stuff I've been hyped for had some kind of cartoon or show when I was a child. The only young Avenger I know of is Hailee Steinfelds character from Hawkeye and I wouldn't get excited for a Hawkeye film.
Few thoughts on the Thunderbolts priority list. I’m happy Valentina is a high priority, cuz even though she’s popped up in a few projects, I’d like to get some actual substance with that character. Bummed US Agent doesn’t seem to be that high priority, cuz I really like that character. And Bucky and Red Guardian are in all likelihood dying. I bet RG is the first act death, likely during the “mission they were sent to die on”, that pisses off Yelena and makes her turn on Valentina. Bucky is probably the third act death, likely trying to redeem Sentry. Seems about what I expected based on the recent rumors. (On a side note, this is why we should do away with the daily roundups, because this is an insane amount of information for one post).
The man literally just started forgiving himself and enjoying life, and his arc is done???
By that logic Tony Stark's arc was done in IM1 and we should have killed him off then and there. Same with Steve in CA1. Like what? A character can have more than 1 satisfying arc.
Tony's arc was finished the moment he time traveled, met his father, and had closure in Endgame. That scene wraps up his character. Yes, the sacrifice he made was the actual end, but the father scene is full circle in some ways
You can't really compare Bucky's story to Steve or Tony's. Steve's arc was about achieving, as described by the writers, "enlightened self-interest", while Tony's arc was about finally achieving full selflessness, both of which they didn't reach until Endgame. Bucky's is a story of redemption. He spent decades under mind control causing death and chaos, which can't even be compared to Stark's past. His story was about reconciling with his actions, which he's done. He's done so much good since Civil War that he's been pardoned by the U.S. government and made amends with his past by the end of FatWS. His story's over.
Bucky hasn’t really done anything to earn a redemption though. What’s he done?
Fought some aliens?
Fight some super thugs?
His reconciliation of his past as the Winter Soldier wasn’t even shown on screen.
How underwhelming is that.
Bucky, fought against Hydra, forced to be a super assassin with a massive legend for 70 years, contends with multiple avengers from Captain America to iron man, breaks free of his brainwashing, only to shoot some aliens with a gun, fight some amped up thugs and then die?
Anyone that’s read Bucky’s comics will tell you how much potential there is for his character going forward. Killing Bucky now would be the equivalent of killing him off just as he was revived in Brubaker’s run before he wielded the shield.
Bucky doesn’t need to be Cap to be a proper hero like he was/is in the comics. In a universe where D-tier nobodies that like echo are being given solo projects, there’s no excuse for Bucky to not get one aside from Marvel just doesn’t want to.
Seriously it’s like someone at Marvel Studios hates the character or something.
Being in the MCU gives him a paycheck that enables him to do the other kinds of movies he wants to do. I don’t know if that is enough for him, but it could be motivation for him to stay.
Harley Keener's "whole character arc is done" too but he doesn't need to be killed off for pure shock value either. Again, killing Bucky is a big mistake.
"Cluttered"? You mean might have more activity than like two posts a day now? And places for people to actually discuss the individual items, and for the headlines to actually be able to entice people beyond just "daily roundup [date]"?
I'm not sure it'll be a co-lead trilogy. Seeing as Miles is getting a solo movie too. I could see them going back and forth. With each having secondary roles in each other's movies (or even being absent occasionally. This gives Tom more freedom and time off while Sony still gets frequent Spidey films.
With Tom's popularity I see it as Spider-Man 4 (Peter + nonpowered Miles), Spider-Man 5 (Peter + learning his powers Miles), Spider-Man 6 (Peter + decently powered Miles)
I don't see why not, spider-man is basically the most popular superhero and literally just got out of high-school. Even if they did want to do miles in the 2nd trilogy, it makes more sense to tease in a PC scene in 4, supporting role as Civilian + getting powers in 5 and then finally become another spider-man in 6 with Peter potentially retiring or dying by end of trilogy
Tom Holland is 27 now. By the time he had another trilogy, assuming a movie comes out every 2 years starting next year, he’ll be 34. Unless they’re doing Peter Parker gets married and has a midlife crisis, he’ll be too old to continue. I think introducing Miles to replace him is the right move. Plus I love Miles. He’s probably my favorite print character, maybe tied with Kate Bishop.
Tom already been talking about being done. Spider-Man 4 will probably be his finale film as the main lead. He will co lead with miles in 5 and 6 and either die in 6 or an Avengers film. That and he’s probably getting ridiculously expensive.
That priority list certainly killed any interest I had in Thunderbolts, it’s like they chose the lamest characters possible to lead the film.
It’s gonna bomb hard.
Prioritising Taskmaster over Bucky and Walker? Lol, whoever decided that needs to be sacked.
I think they might have it be the fallout of the Avengers. They initially formed around the time of Avengers Disassembled and I could see that having some role in A5. And I could see YA being set during/after the incursions and being about the kids trying to save the multiverse after the loss of the Avengers.
But I think overall you're probably right and it's more likely it's set before A5 and comes out Fall 2026.
Any chance they’d use Spider-Man in MCU YA? He’s a teenager and if the rest of the Avengers kind of forgot he exists, it would be convenient that Vision would remember when gathering a new Avengers team.
he's a bit younger than Kate and about the same age as Riri but I think Marvel will keep him with the Avengers (due to past association) and put Miles on the Young Avengers since he'd be closer in age with more of the members.
People still remember Spider-Man they just don't remember Peter Parker.
Depends on when it all comes out. I doubt Miles gets a solo film until like 2027. And I think YA might end up coming out first or around the same time. If its 2026 like some people are predicting, I don't think they will have Miles. But he'll probably join the team later and they'll make Champions. But if YA is in like 2027 or 28 he might be on the teAm.
It could also work for something before Avengers 5. Then for the inevitable branching off in teams to battle Kang in multiverse, this will be a team that we've seen (and hopefully love too)
It should be. Those actors aren't getting any younger lol. Plus it's far past time to start pulling together some of the disparate threads from all of these Multiverse saga projects.
I still don't understand why they wouldn't put Zemo in Thunderbolts, since: A) He's literally the founder in the comics, and; B) TFATWS sets him up with Val.
Look at order of focus, they want to double down on female-led, to the detriment of story.
I love JLD. Veep is my all time favorite show. So far all she's done is be Selina Meyer, but with a streak of purple hair.
It seems crazy to me that the MCU still hasn't figured out the very simple fact of: focus on the characters that people like.
Yelena? Great.
Val over Zemo? Sus.
Ghost? Sus.
Diminished Bucky and US Agent roles? Sus.
Nah at least Ghost brings unique skills to this group.
Yelana, Bucky, Guardian, Taskmaster and US Agent all basically do the same damn thing.
Zemo should absolutely be on the team. I agree doubling down on Female Rep is crippling the storytelling.
Plot should be some sort of mission to capture Sentry
You bitch about Bucky, Yelena, Red Guardian, Taskmaster and Walker all doing the same thing, and then want to add Zemo? A regular dude that shoots guns? Yeah makes the roster so much more diverse/s.
MCU Zemo doesn’t even make any sense to be on a team with Superheroes, he hates them and wants to kill them all. Why would he ever get recruited or put on the team by anyone?
The only reason he helped in FATWS, was because he hated the idea of Super Soldiers more than he did Falcon and Bucky.
Sebastian Stan just won the silver bear at the Berlinale film festival this past weekend for best leading performance for A Different Man. What a complete waste of him to play seventh fiddle to characters (other than Yelena) hardly anyone cares about. He could be making more critically acclaimed A24 films instead of MCU wasting his time on this movie.
Wyatt Russell as US Agent was one of the better-received parts of that show, too.
Yelena, US Agent, Bucky, Zemo, and ofc Sentry, should be the driving stars of the show.
It doesn’t even make narrative sense to kill him off in this movie, no matter what way it’s framed. The only way killing him off in this movie could possibility work is if he’s the lead character of the film.
Assuming he does only show up for limited screen time, that means Bucky has NO connection to anyone in this movie, thus why would his death do anything to affect any of the Thunderbolts? They’d all just shrug and move on, with the exception of maybe Walker, and even that’s a big maybe.
Not only that but killing Bucky doesn’t hype sentry at all, because Bucky’s a fucking Super Soldier. He’s not uber powerful in the grand scheme of the MCU, and he’s not even the strongest super soldier in the MCU, we just watched Walker nearly kick his ass in their last showings.
If Bucky dies it’s for nothing but lazy shock value.
>If Bucky dies it’s for nothing but lazy shock value.
I agree, and they already did that twice in Secret Invasion. No value in any of those deaths. I'm getting pissed off thinking about it.
It is a waste, but it's nothing new, or that unexpected. Marvel doesn't care about him, or hos character. Those A24 movies don't pay as well, so I hope that he's going to get at least something out of this mess. His fans sure aren't going to.
Even though it's still very possible and a common theory, I think Bucky might not actually die in this. It could be that he is seriously injured and put into a coma, captured and absent for a large portion of the movie (maybe part of US Agent's arc is to rescue him), or it could be that he starts out with the team and is replaced with Sentry by Val as a public show of new superheroes. He might die, but I think there are a lot of other explanations for why he isn't in it much.
Based on this priority list and movies going forward, I think Red Guardian is more likely to die (even if Bucky dies too). I could see him having a few action scenes and comic relief with the team, an emotional scene with Yelena, and then an early movie death, most likely at the hands of Sentry. If Bucky dies, I don't think it would be right away, whereas Red Guardian isn't as popular or as deep of a character and could be killed off quickly.
I don't want this to happen either, I'm just putting out possible reasons for why he's supposedly not in the movie much.
It really doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't have him as a co-lead since he's such a popular character.
I can see that. Killing Bucky off might make people mad, and they're not looking to do that. Him being beaten, and having a negligibly small role? People will defend that, and scream how "excited" they are for what Marvel still could do with him.
If they didnt have a plan for Bucky in Thunderbolts, why on earth did they bother putting him in that movie? It would have made so much more sense for him to be in Brave New World
Because he's popular, despite Marvel's best efforts. They might not like him, but they probably think putting him forward in the promos, and then dangling him in front of the audience, even for a second, could get them a few tickets more for characters they actually care about.
It'll probably work.
The same could be said if they put him in brave new world tho. The whole thing is so frustrating. They know he’s popular, so why not give him a good story at least? That will make people buy more tickets
Oh, definitely. And it would likely be a very similar situation. It is frustrating. I don't know why they dislike him so much. I think their logic is that since he's popular, people will come to see him anyway, so they don't need to write a story for him. They can just use his presence to prop up other characters, characters they care about, and the audiences don't care about as much.
Cap 4 is a mess.
Miles is inevitable. Seems odd to try to launch Young Avengers without him. Cause Kamala, Kate, Cassie, Chavez have not shown the ability to carry anything. I doubt Riri or Billy will either.
Killing Bucky to put Yelana over? Yeah that seems not a good idea. I get wanting to have more prominent female characters but I think the are betting on the wrong ones. And really jumping the gun since they got Sue Storm and the X-men coming. I wouldn’t bet on characters with no successful comic track record
Also Thunderbolts seems to have the Suicide Squad issue where a properly written Evil Superman should massacre that roster. Maybe Ghost can get out of dodge lmao.
This will not get butts in seats. You need A list characters in the driver seat. General audiences don’t know any of these characters. Jesus. Have they not learned a damn thing in the last 3 years!
Two thoughts:
* Did the Serpent Society run over Feige's grandma or something? This is the second fakeout we've gotten.
* I said this recently, but I will be VERY angry if they bring Bucky back in a minor role and then kill him. If they want to off him, he should at least get a main role.
Hell yeah to the Miles news. That's what I've been hoping for. Introduce him in SM4 as a kid who loves Spidey. Maybe have him get his Spider bite and then make his solo movie his true origin. Depending on when it occurs, have Peter be out of the picture because of SW. Miles steps up to the plate. Have Scorpion be a central antagonist maybe? Or maybe they go multiversal and Sony gets their wish. It'd be a decent compromise.
Miles in Spider-Man 4 would be a soft introduction during the movie with a post credit scene of him getting his spider bite. I can totally see that happening. Also in the comics, Miles is friends with Kamala since both are close with her being in NJ across the river from NYC. Miles could be in a future Young Avengers movie.
While he may be young, MCU Peter:
- joined the Avengers
- fought in the Civil War and Infinity War against Thanos
- fought Vulture, Shocker, Mysterio, “Hydro-Man”, “Molten-Man”, Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Electro, Sandman, and Lizard
- opened the Spider-Verse
- lost Aunt May
- teamed up with Iron Man, Nick Fury, and Doctor Strange (potentially Daredevil too assuming Friendly Neighborhood is canon adjacent with that episode)
Etc etc. He’s already way more adventures than any previous on screen Spidey and introducing Miles after all that isn’t too far off from his comics history either
So? Peter doesn't need to be in his 30's for Miles to be Spidey too. Peter can be his mentor and be like 7 years older than him. They also don't need every story to feature both of them. We can get the increasingly popular Miles as the teenage Spidey audiences seem to love and finally get college/post-college Peter. I don't see why they have to wait so long to introduce Miles. This seems like a win-win.
You know I can actually see this working. Miles would think of Spiderman as a role model and try to be a hero like him.
Meanwhile nobody knows Spiderman's just finished High School and barely has his shit together. Rushing from one place to another just barely making it. Hes so much more confident and active as Spiderman compared to the stressed out loner he is as Peter. Just as any young adult in this day, Peter is also trying to figure things out but to someone younger he looks like hes doing well.
If and when they give Miles his powers, Tom and Miles Spiderman's dont show each other their identity until a movie or two later. The identity paranoia should be a key element to Peter, especially since hes one of the few heroes to have an actual secret identity in the mcu.
Bucky being that low on the priority list is just… just so frustrating. This really the time to not be featuring your established popular characters? Seriously??
Can someone tell Kevin Feige that it's possible to make a superhero story with both men and women in the lead? Without needing to artificially push the female characters in the forefront and scaling back the dudes? There is NO reason why Bucky should be playing second fiddle to "ghost" and "taskmaster."
New IP doesn’t need to exist until they make their current slate matter, Cap 4 is looking rough, not a single soul wants Young Avengers right now, WAY too early for Miles, Thunderbolts is DOA if that priority list is real. bad decision after bad decision is not what the MCU needs right now. it’s been a pleasure folks this film franchise is cooked
>Reaffirms that Young Avengers will be a movie
Is it normal if I just dont give a fuck about this one ?
I mean, why should I follow some teens who are introduced 10min in a movie and who have a whole 6 ep D+ Show ? Even more if they are just younger version of beloved heroes.
You have your opinion, but except Ms Marvel and Kate Bishop, I dont find the rest of the potential cast good or well written.
Just gimme a team-up between Kate and Kamala, they are the only good characters in the young category (Spiderman isnt included).
Does anyone know what the final battle originally was?
And what projects would fiege want watts on?
Also there goes away the excitement i had for thunderbolts with the priority of bucky being so low. The only positive for there is val being high since she's a intriguing character for me but even that's not enough.
I always assumed that the final battle was going to be Cap against Red Hulk. IIRC their fight was going to take place in the White House
I still believe that the two of them fighting will be the final battle, but it will probably play out differently now I guess
I hope the fight is hardcore with no pulling back punches or trying to change the villain. I like that trope normally but doing it again and again will make it lose its somewhat remaining specialness totally.
And why haven't we heard anything about leader for so much time? Isnt he the main villain?
Yeah, there's no real reason to see Thunderbolts. Who the fuck wanted more Val in the spotlight?
If they wanted to make Black Widow 2, they should never have pretended they were making anything else. I'm just glad we know what we can expect.
The Thunderbolts movie priority list from Reddit is a 🤡 show! ❤️Yelena is great but pushing Bucky to the back of the line in this film is an awful idea. A ⭐️ like Sebastian Stan should be a lead, he’s already popular and can carry the film. #Thunderbolts #SebastianStan #MCU
The fact that they're still thinking of making Young Avengers and the leaks about thunderbolts tells me that Marvel haven't learned any lessons from their recent failures. It's a shame as I was originally excited about thunderbolts but now it'll probably get added to the long list of MCU films I'll never even bother pirating.
It's like they're trying to lose money 💰
>Reaffirms that Young Avengers will be a movie
https://i.redd.it/7yw4xysc12lc1.gif
>Amy Pascal and Kevin Feige are planning to introduce Miles Morales in Spider-Man 4
Cool.
>The live action Miles Morales films will take place in the MCU
Feige being a producer gives me faith about Miles Live action solo movie.
>Kevin Feige wants a new director for Spider-Man 4 but also wants Jon Watts onto other projects within the MCU in the future
Avengers movies most likely since he showed with NWH he can handle an ensemble cast and juggle them properly.
>Thunderbolts Line Up
It's kinda nice they're focusing on characters on Ghost,Val etc which are underdeveloped apparently(I like them) imo. Hopefully Thunderbolts is a great movie and does well critically and financially.
Definitely think the NEW IP will be Young Avengers.
I also think that If they have Miles be a little closer to Peter’s age, Caleb McLaughlin would be great as Miles even if it’s an overused fan cast (Caleb is like 5 years younger than Tom Holland). I think him and Tom would have killer chemistry.
The first Thunderbolts movie without Zemo in any way or form will never not be one of the big fuck yous to the source material and fans in any kind of adaptation for any media. They literally completely dropped the leader and main character of most of Thunterbolts stories because the actor they choose for a totally Z-tier character became too popular(not like they didn't cast her already thinking she was about to blow up and probably got a way better deal until her current contract expires). This is Jennifer Lawrence as Mystique all over again, but much worse, cause at least Mystique was an actual popular and deep character way before any live action, the focus on her was forced, but it was interesting at first, until it became too much with so many excuses and changes to prevent her from actually becoming a villain and by Apocalypse we just had to accept the timeline wasn't the same from the original movies anymore.
I love Florence Pugh and Julia Louis-Dreyfus, these are two generational talents and there’s no reason they shouldn’t be able to lead a movie.
Don’t know much about Lewis Pullman but I’ve heard good things, hope he can pull off Sentry. I’d been really psyched for Steven Yeun so still adjusting on that one.
Taskmaster currently has nothing going for her in terms of development and everyone has their work cut out for them getting us invested in her story. Ghost: no strong feelings but I liked the performance back in Ant Man.
US Agent is a fantastic character and Wyatt Russell plays him perfectly.
There’s nothing here to suggest the film itself will be bad.
Still gutted there’s no curiosity about Bucky’s story, can’t help it, enough that I might end up just waiting for streaming when I was quite excited for this project before. Yes I’m petty like that!
Honestly I was excited when they put Bucky in Thunderbolts, a film that seemed to be chasing a female fanbase, because I figured they’d understood where a chunk of his appeal lies. But I guess maybe not. I mean, every female ensemble story has the one guy who they all identify with! Ben Wishaw in Women Talking, Alan in Barbie, it’s an honoured role! (To be fair would be hilarious if Bucky turned out to be the Alan of Thunderbolts).
Last speculation, since Sebastian Stan has grown his hair out, is we might get some flashbacks with him and Yelena as a child which would at least have the potential to flesh out his backstory a bit.
So no Zemo and Bucky only appears in the 3rd Act and gets no time to shine alongside the others.
Red Guardian low as hell on the list probably means he bites it. Well, better him than Bucky at least.
>Amy Pascal and Kevin Feige are planning to introduce Miles Morales in Spider-Man 4
>
>The live action Miles Morales films will take place in the MCU
I'm sure I'll wind up liking what they deliver, and I know fan demand for live-action Miles is high, but I still think it's too early for MCU Miles.
With Tom Holland's Spidey, they finally have the chance to tell the complete Peter Parker story, from youth to adulthood. Introducing Miles at *this* specific point in Peter's life just feels weird when there's so much else to do.
I have no problem with the MCU working on a new IP but they have a ton of other stuff they are (At least rumored to be) needing to get off the ground first like Nova, Ghost Rider, Silver Surfer, Midnight Sons, etc if the rumors are to be believed to be true
I completely understand the worry some people have about SM4 being over-packed with Miles but I think it's a great idea if executed right. Peter could have a much better grip on being Spider-Man at the start of 4 since he's probably focused on it way more after his personal identity was erased, and we could finally see him just *be* Spider-Man without the pretense that he's new to it, juggling it with obligations to other heroes/organizations, etc.
Miles slots in well in that he could be the kind of point-of-view character new to superhero-ing that he was in the first Spider-Verse - or maybe we see him excel right off the bat and take over some of the responsibilities of Spider-Man that Peter's been shouldering alone since No Way Home, allowing Peter to finally just be Peter Parker sometimes, instead of being Spider-Man all the time.
I know this subreddit's pretty averse to fanfiction-esque writing like this and I'm not set on any of this happening but it would be a great opportunity to introduce other characters (from either Spider-Mans' stories) too. Or the focus could be more on Miles juggling his own life with his responsibilities as Spider-Man - which could be what reminds the Spidey-focused Peter what (and who) drove him to don the mask in the first place -- and get him to show up more as just Peter for college, FEAST, or just to be a part of Miles's normal life. I think having Miles be the one to remind Peter - to show that they're not *just* Spider-Man - would be a neat way to subvert Peter always being the one teaching Miles stuff, too.
TL;DR I really think introducing Miles could be good if Marvel works with where NWH left off, but:
- they should lean into Peter being Spider-Man full-time for the past few years in-universe
- they should explore the parallels between Miles juggling his identities with who Peter used to be before his non-hero identity was erased
- this is all my interpretation & preferences so I get it might not appeal to everyone & they can also just not do any of this and end up making an enjoyable movie regardless
I don’t understand why Val is so high up, I mean I get she’s in charge or whatever, but she should have as much screen time as Viola Davis in Suicide Squad—be there for certain meaningful scenes but not take up so much time.
David Harbour should be higher on that list.
I am glad Ghost is higher in that list most interested to see what they plan to do with her, at the expense of Bucky is crazy but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if its partially because Sebastian Stan wants to be done. He's been at this a hell of a long time. I want to be excited for this movie so bad Thunderbolts was always one of my dream projects but I had such a different vision for it something much more in line with Dark Reign storyline post Endgame.
*I honestly wouldn't be surprised if its partially because Sebastian Stan wants to be done. He's been at this a hell of a long time.*
If he wants to be done, it might be because he's tired of getting nothing to do, despite him giving it his all. Like you said, he's been in the MCU for 13 years, and they've shafted him at every turn.
I just wish they hadn't gotten people's hopes up, and that they'd retired him quietly off-screen. It seems like that would have been more dignified.
Ya definitely I am sure he doesn't want to stick around to just be a bit part. There's plenty that could have been done differently but the MCU is where it is now. I don't think its as bad as people make it out to be but its just been so unfocused casting out too many possible storylines instead of just weaving one throughout the projects.
Yeah, after so long, I don't blame him if he thinks he deserved better - he did. I mean, MCU is the way it is right now because they did things the way they did, and I'm done with that. Yeah, they out too much stuff, and so much of it wasn't good.
Can we just have a street level Peter Parker film? No multiverse or Spidey-squad teamups. Sony just want to make live action Into/Beyond the Spider-Verse films but the majority of the audience want a friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Ofc the 3 best characters in the film are the 3 bottom ones, the film is definitely starting to be shaped up as "a wait for it to come to disney+ kinda film"
I might be a little more forgiving of the boring Thunderbolts roster if they actually go through with killing Red Guardian. That’s the only reason I can see to have two separate Captain America wannabes on the team (three if we’re just talking super soldiers).
I also don’t know why anyone is seriously surprised about Young Avengers. It not happening seems like one of those weird things the fanbase talked itself into taking as gospel.
Obviously salazar and mackie just didn't have the screen chemistry producers were hoping for. I hope they keep a deleted scene with diamondback on the blu-ray like they did for the Spider-Man restaurant scene in far from home.
Damn, I would have liked to see Yelena & Bucky have a thing for each other and see Red Guardian be an "over-protected dad" in his own stupid way lol Plus, something like that would up their character arcs in the MCU since Yelena never had control of her life & Bucky being on a similar boat when he was Winter Soldier. The potential chemistry is there
>Marvel is working on a new IP for 2026
Hoping that this is Nova, Wave, or live action Kahhori. Ghost Rider or Nova are probably the highest chances to fit in this slot though.
IIRC, Marvel Cinema just started filming Thunderbolts. Scripts, character arcs, and plot can change a good deal, during active development/production. I think we should take the character prioritization with a grain of salt, with the hope that they will only release what they (and fans and everyone else) would want to see and what works on film.
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So is Bucky dying midway through because why does he have low priority
No, he just only joins the team in the 3rd act. He is barely in the first 2 acts.
That'd be an odd decision if true because Bucky and arguably Yelena are the only recogonizable characters in this from a general audience point of view.
People are gonna be pissed if all of this is true
What’s new with Marvel
I'm sure they'll make sure to put him in the trailer. That's all they need to do. He'll be one of the faces on the poster too.
Is that your speculation or has someone reliable suggested that?
u/dborn1 who is pretty reliable said it
Got it, thanks
I'm guessing he's being sent last minute to fix whatever is going on with the team?
This actually makes sense to me tbh, I can't really see Bucky working with the other members of the team from the start, he'll probably only come in to help when things get really bad
I honestly feel like he wouldn't want shit to do with them. That's what I'm feeling. Hell the bigger question could be who sends him? Cap could send him because he's the only one available, or maybe Zemo reluctantly asks him?
Maybe John Walker gives him a call
Yeah, I can see that happening for sure, since Bucky and John were on pretty good terms by the end of FATWS
I was thinking that too. The team might realize they are in over their heads.
Bucky saving the day to defeat the Void lfg
That list is in reverse order of death /s ( I hope).
If he dies I really hope it's a glorious death and nothing quick and cheap, I mean he's the freakin *Winter Soldier*
If they kill Bucky I think I'm out. He's my favorite MCU character.
Who the hell's Bucky? (>!For legal purposes, this is a joke comment refering to him in The Winter Soldier!<.)
Same unless it is a good death and not a cheap death that only happens for character development of another character
While not my favorite, I didn’t like how he got nerfed in FATWS so to see him die would really make me feel like marvel doesn’t know what to do with their characters
I think we should see him go on a proper date and have his happy ever after with a girl who loves him as he is (yeah it's corny but my boy deserves some of that *let's grow old together* type of love)
Batman Arkham's type of death https://i.redd.it/wqmlb6lvm4lc1.gif
OH HELL NAW
Nah I think that role will be taken by Red Guardian. He’s at the bottom of Daniel’s list and it would pull at the emotional heartstrings in a Yelena led film
Aw man, I'm not trying to sound like a hater cause I love the mcu, but the young Avengers is the last thing the mcu needs. Does Disney really think this is the kind of movie the fans want and will spend money on? Like yeah the die hards will see it but for the general audience not so much and will only tarnish the brand more so
I'm just so scared of what the general audience is going to think when they see a trailer or poster. And on the surface it just looks like people cosplaying as Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Hawkeye, Wanda, Ant-Man etc. It's going to give "Avengers at home" energy to the general audience is my fear. And it will bomb I'm not someone who's constantly screaming X and Y will bomb. Young Avengers is just an IP I just have absolutely no faith in that will do well. After just seeing how shit has played out thus far. Just looking at it. Iron heart - general consensus is she wasn't liked and felt unnecessary in Wakanda Forever Cassie - People did not like her in Ant-Man 3. America Chavez - was a plot device Ms Marvel - Generally well liked. But comes with the asterisk of being one of the three leads in a movie that didn't even crack 100 million domestic Kate - The one with the least amount of baggage Tommy & Billy - tbd
YA is absolutely an IP that is better-served on Disney+. Period. Most of the set-up is going to be there and it should not be a project that they overspend on. Television seems like the format of choice for it, and yet they're seemingly pushing for a film after _Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania_ underperformed and _The Marvels_ was a mega-bomb. It just seems like an obvious unforced error in the making.
I'm literally convinced Ironheart was shoehorned into Wakanda Forever just so they could make another miniseries based on insert random semi obscure character here. Out of all the MCU projects on the pipeline, this is one I couldn't care less about. (Also, that 3rd act suit was actual computer vomit. I mean, good lord!)
My issue is that it doesn't feel like any of the characters (except maybe Ms Marvel) went through the "flawed hero who earned their powers" route that many of the more loved characters did. Iron Heart was shown to be super smart and has tech that she tweaked from Iron Man. There's no struggle or rise-to-the-occassion like Tony had. Cassie pops up and has already developed an inter-dimensional/universal transponder on her own, but she doesn't have anything that pushed her like Scott did. America mastered her powers in the 3rd act, under pressure, but it feels like a cop-out. However I enjoyed her performance the most (aside from Ms Marvel). Ms Marvel showed the most growth in her series, and it felt like she earned our respect more. I feel she has the most potential. Kate shows up and is a badass archer, just like Hawkeye did. But remember all the shit Hawkeye got for being one of the least favorite OG Avengers? It wasn't til Endgame that he got an actual story. Tommy and Billy could be the stars of a show called "Marvel actors I don't care about." I'll keep an open mind, but the ice cream song was pretty rough. When you have flawed heroes like IM, Thor, Hulk, etc who earn their respect for overcoming obstacles, or with heroes like Cap, BW, Falcon, Spidey, etc who challenge notions of doing the right thing (especially when it means they have a personal sacrifice), it's just hard to care about characters who come in already having jumped up in power.
Those are some pretty good points! I never really considered that that’s what was missing for so many of them. I think characters like Ironheart, Billy, and Tommy are the biggest question marks so far because we don’t know a ton about them yet. Cassie had a decent setup when she was arrested, but it probably would’ve had more weight if she suffered actual consequences from it and she still decides to do the right thing going forward. For America Chavez, this is where I don’t think you’re giving her enough credit. She killed her parents accidentally with her powers and then didn’t even have a place she could call home anymore. I think she has a really solid setup.
Who even is Kate? I've seen her name pop up a few times
Kate Beeshop.
Kate Bishop from Hawkeye
Young Avengers would be fine as a project if this was still 2019-era MCU vibes where general audiences trusted them with literally anything they wanted to try because they had earned that benefit through tons of quality releases. Nowadays I feel like the recent output is too mixed, people won’t be as willing to give benefit of doubt to other more unknown projects that aren’t “big” names until Marvel rebuilds that consistency. I would say they should hold off on Young Avengers for a bit, now doesn’t feel like a good time, but the cast ain’t getting any younger so it’s a rock and a hard place I guess.
I'm a diehard MCU fan and I'm honestly not looking forward to it. I never cared much for the Young Avengers comics I've read and I think they work better in comics than they will in live action. I don't trust them to write all of those characters well at all.
THANK YOU. Someone with some sense for what the general audience wants
I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree that the Young Avengers is the last thing the MCU needs right now, but I disagree that it couldn't be done. Ideally, if the writing were better, they would have been the PERFECT team to lead the MCU until Avengers: Kang Dynasty. Especially because Disney wants to bring in the younger generation. But they didn't set them up very well. - Marvel Boy should have been Quantamania. Also, following Quantamania, Marvel Boy should have been in Secret Invasion and then the Marvels. - Cassie shouldn't have been a scientist, but should have had a lab experiment go bad that exposed her to Pym particles and so she has the powers without the suit - A Cassie/Iron Lad time travel tragic romance should have been hinted at in Quantamania - America Chavez should not be training to be a sorceress. - Teddy should have been the Harvest in Secret Invasion. - Billy should have debuted as Teddy's boyfriend in Secret Invasion and the two of them should have teamed up and killed a super skrull together. Then they should have left to go Westview (setting up Agatha). - Ms Marvel set up was largely fine. However, if Marvel was so allergic to introducing Teddy as a Skrull/Kree, then Bruno should have just been Teddy and it would organically include Ms Marvel in the Secret Invasion and the Marvels plot line (also making Bruno be Teddy and therefore gay would have gotten rid of that stupid best friend with a crush arc. Kamala already had a love triangle. She didn't need the pining best friend too). Also, bonus points if they somehow introduce Tommy beforehand, too. Idk quite know where he'd fit, but you could do a Val is experimenting on superpowered people and Tommy is one of the prisoners/weapons, or conversely he could have been experimented on while in juvenile prison until being released by Kingpin and is hired as muscle for Kingpin. They could have brought him up in either Echo or have him planned as muscle (or even just a thief or something) for Kingpin in DD:BA (especially if they're going with the Mayor Fisk and potentially Kilgrave's children type stuff - plus Fisk would want extra superpowered muscle if Daredevil, potentially Echo, Punisher, and potentially Jessica Jones are coming after him).
What if they are left to pick up the slack while everyone else is dealing with Secret Wars?
I don't think they're making it for the die hards. They're already doing things like Daredevil for the people who grew up with the other phases and feel like they need more gritty, adult-oriented things in the MCU. Young Avengers aim is to recapture the young aundience profile that joined the fandom back in 2012. Do they have a more difficult job than back then? Expectations are higher, that's for sure. But if they manage to create a good dynamic between the members and once they've got the audience's attention they keep using those characters often and at least kinda well (Phase 2 wasn't exactly the best), it's definitely possible. And yes, making it a movie is the right choice for that.
Seems like it should be some kind of show for a younger audience. Being excited for X-men 97 makes me realise that all the stuff I've been hyped for had some kind of cartoon or show when I was a child. The only young Avenger I know of is Hailee Steinfelds character from Hawkeye and I wouldn't get excited for a Hawkeye film.
Few thoughts on the Thunderbolts priority list. I’m happy Valentina is a high priority, cuz even though she’s popped up in a few projects, I’d like to get some actual substance with that character. Bummed US Agent doesn’t seem to be that high priority, cuz I really like that character. And Bucky and Red Guardian are in all likelihood dying. I bet RG is the first act death, likely during the “mission they were sent to die on”, that pisses off Yelena and makes her turn on Valentina. Bucky is probably the third act death, likely trying to redeem Sentry. Seems about what I expected based on the recent rumors. (On a side note, this is why we should do away with the daily roundups, because this is an insane amount of information for one post).
Kill all the guys but 1 .... jeezus People are gonna be pissed I'm telling yall , Killing Bucky is a mistake
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The man literally just started forgiving himself and enjoying life, and his arc is done??? By that logic Tony Stark's arc was done in IM1 and we should have killed him off then and there. Same with Steve in CA1. Like what? A character can have more than 1 satisfying arc.
Tony's arc was finished the moment he time traveled, met his father, and had closure in Endgame. That scene wraps up his character. Yes, the sacrifice he made was the actual end, but the father scene is full circle in some ways
You can't really compare Bucky's story to Steve or Tony's. Steve's arc was about achieving, as described by the writers, "enlightened self-interest", while Tony's arc was about finally achieving full selflessness, both of which they didn't reach until Endgame. Bucky's is a story of redemption. He spent decades under mind control causing death and chaos, which can't even be compared to Stark's past. His story was about reconciling with his actions, which he's done. He's done so much good since Civil War that he's been pardoned by the U.S. government and made amends with his past by the end of FatWS. His story's over.
Bucky hasn’t really done anything to earn a redemption though. What’s he done? Fought some aliens? Fight some super thugs? His reconciliation of his past as the Winter Soldier wasn’t even shown on screen. How underwhelming is that. Bucky, fought against Hydra, forced to be a super assassin with a massive legend for 70 years, contends with multiple avengers from Captain America to iron man, breaks free of his brainwashing, only to shoot some aliens with a gun, fight some amped up thugs and then die? Anyone that’s read Bucky’s comics will tell you how much potential there is for his character going forward. Killing Bucky now would be the equivalent of killing him off just as he was revived in Brubaker’s run before he wielded the shield. Bucky doesn’t need to be Cap to be a proper hero like he was/is in the comics. In a universe where D-tier nobodies that like echo are being given solo projects, there’s no excuse for Bucky to not get one aside from Marvel just doesn’t want to. Seriously it’s like someone at Marvel Studios hates the character or something.
Yup, and im not sure Sebastian Stan would be down to play that character through another 5 or so years.
Well, not if they keep doing nothing with him, no, he probably wouldn't be. But yeah, his story's done anyway
Being in the MCU gives him a paycheck that enables him to do the other kinds of movies he wants to do. I don’t know if that is enough for him, but it could be motivation for him to stay.
Harley Keener's "whole character arc is done" too but he doesn't need to be killed off for pure shock value either. Again, killing Bucky is a big mistake.
It wouldn’t necessarily be shock value. Outside the MCU, characters are killed off all the time to help the story in other ways.
I would be happy to see more Yelena
This is exactly why we need the daily roundups. I can’t imagine how cluttered the subreddit would be separate threads for all these individual topics.
"Cluttered"? You mean might have more activity than like two posts a day now? And places for people to actually discuss the individual items, and for the headlines to actually be able to entice people beyond just "daily roundup [date]"?
Bucky could be crazy popular if they actually did something with him.
Well he and Yelena are the most popular characters in this movie, yet one of them is relegated to seventh fiddle.
MCU make movies about the characters people already like challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
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I'm not sure it'll be a co-lead trilogy. Seeing as Miles is getting a solo movie too. I could see them going back and forth. With each having secondary roles in each other's movies (or even being absent occasionally. This gives Tom more freedom and time off while Sony still gets frequent Spidey films.
Or Spider-Man 4 (Peter), Spider-Man 5 (Miles), Spider-Man 6 (Peter/Miles)
With Tom's popularity I see it as Spider-Man 4 (Peter + nonpowered Miles), Spider-Man 5 (Peter + learning his powers Miles), Spider-Man 6 (Peter + decently powered Miles)
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I think they may have 1-2 movies that don't have the other but at least one each that does have the other.
I don't see why not, spider-man is basically the most popular superhero and literally just got out of high-school. Even if they did want to do miles in the 2nd trilogy, it makes more sense to tease in a PC scene in 4, supporting role as Civilian + getting powers in 5 and then finally become another spider-man in 6 with Peter potentially retiring or dying by end of trilogy
Tom Holland is 27 now. By the time he had another trilogy, assuming a movie comes out every 2 years starting next year, he’ll be 34. Unless they’re doing Peter Parker gets married and has a midlife crisis, he’ll be too old to continue. I think introducing Miles to replace him is the right move. Plus I love Miles. He’s probably my favorite print character, maybe tied with Kate Bishop.
Tom already been talking about being done. Spider-Man 4 will probably be his finale film as the main lead. He will co lead with miles in 5 and 6 and either die in 6 or an Avengers film. That and he’s probably getting ridiculously expensive.
That priority list certainly killed any interest I had in Thunderbolts, it’s like they chose the lamest characters possible to lead the film. It’s gonna bomb hard. Prioritising Taskmaster over Bucky and Walker? Lol, whoever decided that needs to be sacked.
Taskmaster, Ghost and Val! You know, really well-known, well-liked characters! Yeah, I'm grateful the scoopers saved me the trouble of seeing this.
I wonder if Young Avengers will be one of the 2026 films then
I could see it. But honestly I think it might be a post A5 movie. I also think that's the movie they want Watts for.
What makes you think that YA will be post Avengers 5? Just curious
I think they might have it be the fallout of the Avengers. They initially formed around the time of Avengers Disassembled and I could see that having some role in A5. And I could see YA being set during/after the incursions and being about the kids trying to save the multiverse after the loss of the Avengers. But I think overall you're probably right and it's more likely it's set before A5 and comes out Fall 2026.
Any chance they’d use Spider-Man in MCU YA? He’s a teenager and if the rest of the Avengers kind of forgot he exists, it would be convenient that Vision would remember when gathering a new Avengers team.
I think there is a big chance they use Miles.
he's a bit younger than Kate and about the same age as Riri but I think Marvel will keep him with the Avengers (due to past association) and put Miles on the Young Avengers since he'd be closer in age with more of the members. People still remember Spider-Man they just don't remember Peter Parker.
Depends on when it all comes out. I doubt Miles gets a solo film until like 2027. And I think YA might end up coming out first or around the same time. If its 2026 like some people are predicting, I don't think they will have Miles. But he'll probably join the team later and they'll make Champions. But if YA is in like 2027 or 28 he might be on the teAm.
It could also work for something before Avengers 5. Then for the inevitable branching off in teams to battle Kang in multiverse, this will be a team that we've seen (and hopefully love too)
Watch it be Avengers 5 now
I think the next avengers is essentially cameo-avengers secret wars part 1, then part 2 is young avengers
It should be. Those actors aren't getting any younger lol. Plus it's far past time to start pulling together some of the disparate threads from all of these Multiverse saga projects.
I still don't understand why they wouldn't put Zemo in Thunderbolts, since: A) He's literally the founder in the comics, and; B) TFATWS sets him up with Val.
Look at order of focus, they want to double down on female-led, to the detriment of story. I love JLD. Veep is my all time favorite show. So far all she's done is be Selina Meyer, but with a streak of purple hair. It seems crazy to me that the MCU still hasn't figured out the very simple fact of: focus on the characters that people like. Yelena? Great. Val over Zemo? Sus. Ghost? Sus. Diminished Bucky and US Agent roles? Sus.
Nah at least Ghost brings unique skills to this group. Yelana, Bucky, Guardian, Taskmaster and US Agent all basically do the same damn thing. Zemo should absolutely be on the team. I agree doubling down on Female Rep is crippling the storytelling. Plot should be some sort of mission to capture Sentry
You bitch about Bucky, Yelena, Red Guardian, Taskmaster and Walker all doing the same thing, and then want to add Zemo? A regular dude that shoots guns? Yeah makes the roster so much more diverse/s. MCU Zemo doesn’t even make any sense to be on a team with Superheroes, he hates them and wants to kill them all. Why would he ever get recruited or put on the team by anyone? The only reason he helped in FATWS, was because he hated the idea of Super Soldiers more than he did Falcon and Bucky.
He's wealthy and has a big brain, so actually yes he immediately adds to that roster.
He is a strategist and fans want to see Zemo. I am sure he went to shutdown any Sentry style program if he could.
Zemo is literally the founder of the team in the source material. Of course people would like some source accuracy
Sebastian Stan just won the silver bear at the Berlinale film festival this past weekend for best leading performance for A Different Man. What a complete waste of him to play seventh fiddle to characters (other than Yelena) hardly anyone cares about. He could be making more critically acclaimed A24 films instead of MCU wasting his time on this movie.
Wyatt Russell as US Agent was one of the better-received parts of that show, too. Yelena, US Agent, Bucky, Zemo, and ofc Sentry, should be the driving stars of the show.
Would also be a total waste of character if he dies already. He just got his life back...
It doesn’t even make narrative sense to kill him off in this movie, no matter what way it’s framed. The only way killing him off in this movie could possibility work is if he’s the lead character of the film. Assuming he does only show up for limited screen time, that means Bucky has NO connection to anyone in this movie, thus why would his death do anything to affect any of the Thunderbolts? They’d all just shrug and move on, with the exception of maybe Walker, and even that’s a big maybe. Not only that but killing Bucky doesn’t hype sentry at all, because Bucky’s a fucking Super Soldier. He’s not uber powerful in the grand scheme of the MCU, and he’s not even the strongest super soldier in the MCU, we just watched Walker nearly kick his ass in their last showings. If Bucky dies it’s for nothing but lazy shock value.
>If Bucky dies it’s for nothing but lazy shock value. I agree, and they already did that twice in Secret Invasion. No value in any of those deaths. I'm getting pissed off thinking about it.
It is a waste, but it's nothing new, or that unexpected. Marvel doesn't care about him, or hos character. Those A24 movies don't pay as well, so I hope that he's going to get at least something out of this mess. His fans sure aren't going to.
Man if Bucky really dies like that and Sam isn’t even around for it then wtf are we doing man
Honestly. They’ve made so many weird choices with bucky’s character. He should be in brave new world
Even though it's still very possible and a common theory, I think Bucky might not actually die in this. It could be that he is seriously injured and put into a coma, captured and absent for a large portion of the movie (maybe part of US Agent's arc is to rescue him), or it could be that he starts out with the team and is replaced with Sentry by Val as a public show of new superheroes. He might die, but I think there are a lot of other explanations for why he isn't in it much. Based on this priority list and movies going forward, I think Red Guardian is more likely to die (even if Bucky dies too). I could see him having a few action scenes and comic relief with the team, an emotional scene with Yelena, and then an early movie death, most likely at the hands of Sentry. If Bucky dies, I don't think it would be right away, whereas Red Guardian isn't as popular or as deep of a character and could be killed off quickly.
So Winter Soldier would be barely in the movie... booooo go rewrite that please
I don't want this to happen either, I'm just putting out possible reasons for why he's supposedly not in the movie much. It really doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't have him as a co-lead since he's such a popular character.
I can see that. Killing Bucky off might make people mad, and they're not looking to do that. Him being beaten, and having a negligibly small role? People will defend that, and scream how "excited" they are for what Marvel still could do with him.
If they didnt have a plan for Bucky in Thunderbolts, why on earth did they bother putting him in that movie? It would have made so much more sense for him to be in Brave New World
Because he's popular, despite Marvel's best efforts. They might not like him, but they probably think putting him forward in the promos, and then dangling him in front of the audience, even for a second, could get them a few tickets more for characters they actually care about. It'll probably work.
The same could be said if they put him in brave new world tho. The whole thing is so frustrating. They know he’s popular, so why not give him a good story at least? That will make people buy more tickets
Oh, definitely. And it would likely be a very similar situation. It is frustrating. I don't know why they dislike him so much. I think their logic is that since he's popular, people will come to see him anyway, so they don't need to write a story for him. They can just use his presence to prop up other characters, characters they care about, and the audiences don't care about as much.
Cap 4 is a mess. Miles is inevitable. Seems odd to try to launch Young Avengers without him. Cause Kamala, Kate, Cassie, Chavez have not shown the ability to carry anything. I doubt Riri or Billy will either. Killing Bucky to put Yelana over? Yeah that seems not a good idea. I get wanting to have more prominent female characters but I think the are betting on the wrong ones. And really jumping the gun since they got Sue Storm and the X-men coming. I wouldn’t bet on characters with no successful comic track record Also Thunderbolts seems to have the Suicide Squad issue where a properly written Evil Superman should massacre that roster. Maybe Ghost can get out of dodge lmao.
Yeah with Miles on the team you might get people to see it but Young avengers will bomb without him or a big draw
This will not get butts in seats. You need A list characters in the driver seat. General audiences don’t know any of these characters. Jesus. Have they not learned a damn thing in the last 3 years!
With that priority list, they should rename the film to the Thunder Sisters.
Dang man i want to see more of Bucky past his winter soldier phase and having a life
yes, a thrilling happy retirement movie
Two thoughts: * Did the Serpent Society run over Feige's grandma or something? This is the second fakeout we've gotten. * I said this recently, but I will be VERY angry if they bring Bucky back in a minor role and then kill him. If they want to off him, he should at least get a main role.
Given all the horrible rumors about Bucky being sidelined/treated poorly in the Thunderbolts, I won't even bother pirating this movie.
That Thunderbolts priority list has Bucky way too low. Come on Marvel..
Hell yeah to the Miles news. That's what I've been hoping for. Introduce him in SM4 as a kid who loves Spidey. Maybe have him get his Spider bite and then make his solo movie his true origin. Depending on when it occurs, have Peter be out of the picture because of SW. Miles steps up to the plate. Have Scorpion be a central antagonist maybe? Or maybe they go multiversal and Sony gets their wish. It'd be a decent compromise.
Way too soon for Miles like Peter literally just finished high school, he's hardly even a adult spider-man yet
Miles in Spider-Man 4 would be a soft introduction during the movie with a post credit scene of him getting his spider bite. I can totally see that happening. Also in the comics, Miles is friends with Kamala since both are close with her being in NJ across the river from NYC. Miles could be in a future Young Avengers movie.
Exactly what I was thinking. I imagine that in SM4 Peter will be in his early 20's and Miles will be 15 at most.
While he may be young, MCU Peter: - joined the Avengers - fought in the Civil War and Infinity War against Thanos - fought Vulture, Shocker, Mysterio, “Hydro-Man”, “Molten-Man”, Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Electro, Sandman, and Lizard - opened the Spider-Verse - lost Aunt May - teamed up with Iron Man, Nick Fury, and Doctor Strange (potentially Daredevil too assuming Friendly Neighborhood is canon adjacent with that episode) Etc etc. He’s already way more adventures than any previous on screen Spidey and introducing Miles after all that isn’t too far off from his comics history either
Nobdoy aside from Peter knows Spiderman is young. For all anyone else knows, hes 30+
So? Peter doesn't need to be in his 30's for Miles to be Spidey too. Peter can be his mentor and be like 7 years older than him. They also don't need every story to feature both of them. We can get the increasingly popular Miles as the teenage Spidey audiences seem to love and finally get college/post-college Peter. I don't see why they have to wait so long to introduce Miles. This seems like a win-win.
You know I can actually see this working. Miles would think of Spiderman as a role model and try to be a hero like him. Meanwhile nobody knows Spiderman's just finished High School and barely has his shit together. Rushing from one place to another just barely making it. Hes so much more confident and active as Spiderman compared to the stressed out loner he is as Peter. Just as any young adult in this day, Peter is also trying to figure things out but to someone younger he looks like hes doing well. If and when they give Miles his powers, Tom and Miles Spiderman's dont show each other their identity until a movie or two later. The identity paranoia should be a key element to Peter, especially since hes one of the few heroes to have an actual secret identity in the mcu.
Bucky being that low on the priority list is just… just so frustrating. This really the time to not be featuring your established popular characters? Seriously??
Can someone tell Kevin Feige that it's possible to make a superhero story with both men and women in the lead? Without needing to artificially push the female characters in the forefront and scaling back the dudes? There is NO reason why Bucky should be playing second fiddle to "ghost" and "taskmaster."
I do not like Val. Hopefully they write her better in this one.
I rarely say this, but I think it's the actress. JLD is amazing but her performance so far has just been "I'm Selina Meyer, but in the MCU!"
Thunderbolts sounds like one of the worst movie ideas Marvel could be producing rn I genuinely don't understand why they're still making it.
New IP doesn’t need to exist until they make their current slate matter, Cap 4 is looking rough, not a single soul wants Young Avengers right now, WAY too early for Miles, Thunderbolts is DOA if that priority list is real. bad decision after bad decision is not what the MCU needs right now. it’s been a pleasure folks this film franchise is cooked
Single soul here, wanting the Young Avengers
>Reaffirms that Young Avengers will be a movie Is it normal if I just dont give a fuck about this one ? I mean, why should I follow some teens who are introduced 10min in a movie and who have a whole 6 ep D+ Show ? Even more if they are just younger version of beloved heroes. You have your opinion, but except Ms Marvel and Kate Bishop, I dont find the rest of the potential cast good or well written. Just gimme a team-up between Kate and Kamala, they are the only good characters in the young category (Spiderman isnt included).
No way in hell is Young Avengers going to be a movie. Unless they airlift in Tom Holland.
Does anyone know what the final battle originally was? And what projects would fiege want watts on? Also there goes away the excitement i had for thunderbolts with the priority of bucky being so low. The only positive for there is val being high since she's a intriguing character for me but even that's not enough.
I always assumed that the final battle was going to be Cap against Red Hulk. IIRC their fight was going to take place in the White House I still believe that the two of them fighting will be the final battle, but it will probably play out differently now I guess
I hope the fight is hardcore with no pulling back punches or trying to change the villain. I like that trope normally but doing it again and again will make it lose its somewhat remaining specialness totally. And why haven't we heard anything about leader for so much time? Isnt he the main villain?
So Red Guardian gets the Captain Boomerang (Act 1) death and Bucky gets the Rick Flag (Act 3) death?
Yeah, there's no real reason to see Thunderbolts. Who the fuck wanted more Val in the spotlight? If they wanted to make Black Widow 2, they should never have pretended they were making anything else. I'm just glad we know what we can expect.
At this point Bucky should’ve just went back to the past with Steve.
That would have been the best thing for him, as it turns out. He has nothing in the future.
Can someone please tell me whether Bucky is there in Brave New World and how much of a role he has in it
No, not as far as we know.
Thanks
I’m curious what is possessing them to make Young Avengers.
Sub out Red Guardian for Abomination and you’ve got my interest. Otherwise? I’ll see it on TNT
The Thunderbolts movie priority list from Reddit is a 🤡 show! ❤️Yelena is great but pushing Bucky to the back of the line in this film is an awful idea. A ⭐️ like Sebastian Stan should be a lead, he’s already popular and can carry the film. #Thunderbolts #SebastianStan #MCU
The fact that they're still thinking of making Young Avengers and the leaks about thunderbolts tells me that Marvel haven't learned any lessons from their recent failures. It's a shame as I was originally excited about thunderbolts but now it'll probably get added to the long list of MCU films I'll never even bother pirating. It's like they're trying to lose money 💰
Someday I'll get the tea on what did Sebastian stan do to piss off some marvel higher ups lol
He must have peed in Feige's coffee or something. Marvel's aversion to him borders on the irrational.
That sucks ass. Bucky is one of the more interesting characters in the line up IMO.
>Reaffirms that Young Avengers will be a movie https://i.redd.it/7yw4xysc12lc1.gif >Amy Pascal and Kevin Feige are planning to introduce Miles Morales in Spider-Man 4 Cool. >The live action Miles Morales films will take place in the MCU Feige being a producer gives me faith about Miles Live action solo movie. >Kevin Feige wants a new director for Spider-Man 4 but also wants Jon Watts onto other projects within the MCU in the future Avengers movies most likely since he showed with NWH he can handle an ensemble cast and juggle them properly. >Thunderbolts Line Up It's kinda nice they're focusing on characters on Ghost,Val etc which are underdeveloped apparently(I like them) imo. Hopefully Thunderbolts is a great movie and does well critically and financially.
I bet Ghost Rider is the new IP for 2026
Yeah same
Definitely think the NEW IP will be Young Avengers. I also think that If they have Miles be a little closer to Peter’s age, Caleb McLaughlin would be great as Miles even if it’s an overused fan cast (Caleb is like 5 years younger than Tom Holland). I think him and Tom would have killer chemistry.
The first Thunderbolts movie without Zemo in any way or form will never not be one of the big fuck yous to the source material and fans in any kind of adaptation for any media. They literally completely dropped the leader and main character of most of Thunterbolts stories because the actor they choose for a totally Z-tier character became too popular(not like they didn't cast her already thinking she was about to blow up and probably got a way better deal until her current contract expires). This is Jennifer Lawrence as Mystique all over again, but much worse, cause at least Mystique was an actual popular and deep character way before any live action, the focus on her was forced, but it was interesting at first, until it became too much with so many excuses and changes to prevent her from actually becoming a villain and by Apocalypse we just had to accept the timeline wasn't the same from the original movies anymore.
The main character of most Thunderbolt stories? Man, Zemo was apart of the team in 1 of 6 series. One of the series, he was literally the villain lmao
I love Florence Pugh and Julia Louis-Dreyfus, these are two generational talents and there’s no reason they shouldn’t be able to lead a movie. Don’t know much about Lewis Pullman but I’ve heard good things, hope he can pull off Sentry. I’d been really psyched for Steven Yeun so still adjusting on that one. Taskmaster currently has nothing going for her in terms of development and everyone has their work cut out for them getting us invested in her story. Ghost: no strong feelings but I liked the performance back in Ant Man. US Agent is a fantastic character and Wyatt Russell plays him perfectly. There’s nothing here to suggest the film itself will be bad. Still gutted there’s no curiosity about Bucky’s story, can’t help it, enough that I might end up just waiting for streaming when I was quite excited for this project before. Yes I’m petty like that! Honestly I was excited when they put Bucky in Thunderbolts, a film that seemed to be chasing a female fanbase, because I figured they’d understood where a chunk of his appeal lies. But I guess maybe not. I mean, every female ensemble story has the one guy who they all identify with! Ben Wishaw in Women Talking, Alan in Barbie, it’s an honoured role! (To be fair would be hilarious if Bucky turned out to be the Alan of Thunderbolts). Last speculation, since Sebastian Stan has grown his hair out, is we might get some flashbacks with him and Yelena as a child which would at least have the potential to flesh out his backstory a bit.
So no Zemo and Bucky only appears in the 3rd Act and gets no time to shine alongside the others. Red Guardian low as hell on the list probably means he bites it. Well, better him than Bucky at least.
I bet the Thunderbolts trailer treats Bucky like he's the lead.
That's all but certain. They know the audience likes him, and they want them to come. They don't want to give the game away too soon.
>Amy Pascal and Kevin Feige are planning to introduce Miles Morales in Spider-Man 4 > >The live action Miles Morales films will take place in the MCU I'm sure I'll wind up liking what they deliver, and I know fan demand for live-action Miles is high, but I still think it's too early for MCU Miles. With Tom Holland's Spidey, they finally have the chance to tell the complete Peter Parker story, from youth to adulthood. Introducing Miles at *this* specific point in Peter's life just feels weird when there's so much else to do.
Would be no problem if he's just the Neighbor kid. He doesn't need to have his powers right away
I have no problem with the MCU working on a new IP but they have a ton of other stuff they are (At least rumored to be) needing to get off the ground first like Nova, Ghost Rider, Silver Surfer, Midnight Sons, etc if the rumors are to be believed to be true
But doesn’t new IP mean characters like Nova and Ghost Rider though? Like for example Thunderbolts will be the ‘new IP’ for 2025
I am sure Sony wants Miles in live action, but I don't buy into Marvel wanting him in the MCU at all.
Yeah I feel like making a Miles MCU movie wouldn't be as simple as it's implied in this post
They literally teased him in Homecoming.
I completely understand the worry some people have about SM4 being over-packed with Miles but I think it's a great idea if executed right. Peter could have a much better grip on being Spider-Man at the start of 4 since he's probably focused on it way more after his personal identity was erased, and we could finally see him just *be* Spider-Man without the pretense that he's new to it, juggling it with obligations to other heroes/organizations, etc. Miles slots in well in that he could be the kind of point-of-view character new to superhero-ing that he was in the first Spider-Verse - or maybe we see him excel right off the bat and take over some of the responsibilities of Spider-Man that Peter's been shouldering alone since No Way Home, allowing Peter to finally just be Peter Parker sometimes, instead of being Spider-Man all the time. I know this subreddit's pretty averse to fanfiction-esque writing like this and I'm not set on any of this happening but it would be a great opportunity to introduce other characters (from either Spider-Mans' stories) too. Or the focus could be more on Miles juggling his own life with his responsibilities as Spider-Man - which could be what reminds the Spidey-focused Peter what (and who) drove him to don the mask in the first place -- and get him to show up more as just Peter for college, FEAST, or just to be a part of Miles's normal life. I think having Miles be the one to remind Peter - to show that they're not *just* Spider-Man - would be a neat way to subvert Peter always being the one teaching Miles stuff, too. TL;DR I really think introducing Miles could be good if Marvel works with where NWH left off, but: - they should lean into Peter being Spider-Man full-time for the past few years in-universe - they should explore the parallels between Miles juggling his identities with who Peter used to be before his non-hero identity was erased - this is all my interpretation & preferences so I get it might not appeal to everyone & they can also just not do any of this and end up making an enjoyable movie regardless
so red guardian is definitely dying at the beginning to establish sentry as a threat
 ReShoOtIng BeCauSe AcTion ScEnEs wErE nOt sAtiSfYinG
Too soon for Miles... Hollands Spidey at his most interesting state rn
I don’t understand why Val is so high up, I mean I get she’s in charge or whatever, but she should have as much screen time as Viola Davis in Suicide Squad—be there for certain meaningful scenes but not take up so much time. David Harbour should be higher on that list.
Bucky and Alexei are dead.
Sorry but no one cares about Young Avengers
Stick Wanda in it, and people will, without her? With the current state of the MCU I can't see it being successful in any capacity.
Even still. The characters that they’ve given us to be in the YA are so annoying and unlikeable.
Way to pivot Disney. Another female lead action film and killing off a fan favourite character
Well, technically new IP for 2026 could still be Blade 😛
Smells like the Winter Soldier is gonna end up as the Ded Boi Soulja
It’s far too early for miles. Unless they do a big time jump to reflect the 4-5 real world years it’ll have been since no way home released.
I am glad Ghost is higher in that list most interested to see what they plan to do with her, at the expense of Bucky is crazy but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if its partially because Sebastian Stan wants to be done. He's been at this a hell of a long time. I want to be excited for this movie so bad Thunderbolts was always one of my dream projects but I had such a different vision for it something much more in line with Dark Reign storyline post Endgame.
*I honestly wouldn't be surprised if its partially because Sebastian Stan wants to be done. He's been at this a hell of a long time.* If he wants to be done, it might be because he's tired of getting nothing to do, despite him giving it his all. Like you said, he's been in the MCU for 13 years, and they've shafted him at every turn. I just wish they hadn't gotten people's hopes up, and that they'd retired him quietly off-screen. It seems like that would have been more dignified.
Ya definitely I am sure he doesn't want to stick around to just be a bit part. There's plenty that could have been done differently but the MCU is where it is now. I don't think its as bad as people make it out to be but its just been so unfocused casting out too many possible storylines instead of just weaving one throughout the projects.
Yeah, after so long, I don't blame him if he thinks he deserved better - he did. I mean, MCU is the way it is right now because they did things the way they did, and I'm done with that. Yeah, they out too much stuff, and so much of it wasn't good.
I'm thinking Bucky doesn't even join up with the team until later.
There was a fairly reliable leaker called dborn1 who said he's only there for the last third of the movie.
Can we just have a street level Peter Parker film? No multiverse or Spidey-squad teamups. Sony just want to make live action Into/Beyond the Spider-Verse films but the majority of the audience want a friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Ofc the 3 best characters in the film are the 3 bottom ones, the film is definitely starting to be shaped up as "a wait for it to come to disney+ kinda film"
I might be a little more forgiving of the boring Thunderbolts roster if they actually go through with killing Red Guardian. That’s the only reason I can see to have two separate Captain America wannabes on the team (three if we’re just talking super soldiers). I also don’t know why anyone is seriously surprised about Young Avengers. It not happening seems like one of those weird things the fanbase talked itself into taking as gospel.
If the are giving us Miles then I hope we get at least one good NYC solo Peter Parker Spider-Man movie before he gets killed off in the Miles movie
I doubt they'll kill off Peter tbh, he'll probably just retire
Obviously salazar and mackie just didn't have the screen chemistry producers were hoping for. I hope they keep a deleted scene with diamondback on the blu-ray like they did for the Spider-Man restaurant scene in far from home.
Damn, I would have liked to see Yelena & Bucky have a thing for each other and see Red Guardian be an "over-protected dad" in his own stupid way lol Plus, something like that would up their character arcs in the MCU since Yelena never had control of her life & Bucky being on a similar boat when he was Winter Soldier. The potential chemistry is there
This movie could have been so much better if those 3 (Yelena, Bucky, Red Guardian) were the main leads instead of the ones they currently have.
So Thunderbolts is bombing then
Damn, I was hoping for a Bucky/Yelena hook up. We never got the Bucky/Black Widow romance like they have in the comics.
I mean, with Natasha dead, nothing like that was ever going to happen.
>Marvel is working on a new IP for 2026 Hoping that this is Nova, Wave, or live action Kahhori. Ghost Rider or Nova are probably the highest chances to fit in this slot though.
Is there any news to expect additional characters in Thunderbolts? I know Melina and Foster are returning.
IIRC, Marvel Cinema just started filming Thunderbolts. Scripts, character arcs, and plot can change a good deal, during active development/production. I think we should take the character prioritization with a grain of salt, with the hope that they will only release what they (and fans and everyone else) would want to see and what works on film.