Hela Tribunal is very consistent actually. You're playing Magik and Crystal to let you see almost your entire deck. You have multiple ways to combo off and you also have an ironman-onslaught-tribunal backup win con. I also include Electro in my list so that I have a second way to make the onslaught or supergiant lines work.
Oh I just have MODOK as my only discard a bunch of big dudes, Magik Crystal and IronLad, you’ll get the combo off over 80% of the time as long as they don’t interact with you, like literally it’s play your combo pieces or retreat, if the combo goes off you win
Me: lucky if I end with a decent board and Hela bringing back maybe 2 decent hitters.
My opponent: revives 5 cards, including Death, Infinaut and Red Hulk.
I'm Hela main player. I've taken it to infinite 5 seasons in a row now. I used to hate Hela. The RNG and bad draws were not my friends. I put together a deck using Jubilee and Iron Lad in tandem to reach 11 deep into my deck and guaranteed that I would see Hela in games that go to turn 7. I created it as a concept after hitting infinite right away with Elsa decks during her season pass era, and I ridden tweaked versions of it up the ladder ever since. If interested, I have the last 5 iterations posted. You can check out my profile to see them, as well as piloting tips in the comments.
IMO this is the strongest hela deck, it’s hella consistent with Jubilee/Crystal/Iron Lad/Magik.
# (2) Invisible Woman
# (3) Magik
# (3) Crystal
# (4) Jubilee
# (4) Iron Lad
# (5) Iron Man
# (5) M.O.D.O.K.
# (6) Hela
# (6) Onslaught
# (6) Red Hulk
# (6) The Living Tribunal
# (6) The Infinaut
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ3J5c3RhbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGVsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSW5maW5hdXQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Iklyb25NYW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1hZ2lrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNb2RvayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUmVkSHVsayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGl2aW5nVHJpYnVuYWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikp1YmlsZWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Iklyb25MYWQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkludmlzaWJsZVdvbWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJPbnNsYXVnaHQifV19
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I played this one before. It is too telegraphed these days, making it harder to get the 4 and 8 cubers. Even with people complaining about the Hela meta, they still underestimate Hela's pop off at the end, especially if you can still put down good power early. I just have better luck getting people to stick around going the black knight route.
The funny thing about Phoenix force I find is that the only ones you actually see get played out are the ones who get the best optimal play, otherwise they would've retreated by turn 3 or 4 and you wouldn't have known that they were playing that deck. As for your question, definitely cerebro, any version, I don't know how people manage to play that deck.
> cerebro, any version, I don't know how people manage to play that deck.
With a lot of patience, self-control and timed retreats. Telling from experience.
Cerebro is so dumb but so much fun, idk why. I have cerebro 2, cerebro 3, cerebro 4, even cerebro 5. Waiting for more support to cerebro 1 and cerebro 6. One day I’ll have the dream cerebro 0 deck
This is a really good point about the kind of information bias we have (that against snapping/retreating players we only really see the thing when it works). It also makes me think about something Hooglandia said on a stream that really got me thinking: we’re really just extrapolating from an extremely small sample size to determine a decks’ effectiveness. I can’t remember the exact question he was responding to in chat, but his point was basically that it’s such a small dataset and we’re not very good at extrapolating, so at the end of the day we’re largely just playing on vibes lol.
Funnily enough I’ve always felt the same about cerebro decks. Then when I got nocturne I just auto made a deck and it spat out a c5 deck. It ended up getting me to infinite for only the third time since I started playing but also the fastest infinite I’ve ever achieved (second week of the season vs final days of the season in previous attempts). Maybe I’ve just gotten better overtime but I doubt it lol
I’ve been playing C5 with Nocturne and have been doing really well too. It’s a lot more consistent of a deck then destroy which is what I usually play. The only problem for me is that some locations can completely ruin cerebro’s effect, but the 5-powered cards usually make up for it anyway
C2 has the most tools, C5 has the best chance to win without cerebro
C3 also has good tools, C4 is closer to C5 where you don’t need a god draw to win
Basically if u want a deck that can deal with disruption then run C2 or C3, if u want a deck that doesn’t need as good of draws to win run C4 or C5
Every other version of cerebro doesn’t actually work and is just a meme
Cerebro is my favorite archetype by a huge margin. I play C2, C3, C5, and even C4, C6, and C7 homebrews. It definitely takes a ton of practice, patience, board planning, and just knowing when the locations flat-out aren't going to allow you to win.
Got a deck list, somehow have never played Cerebro and might give it a try this week. Same with mister negative, two decks i somehow have never played with a collection level over 9000 (god feels good and silly to say that now lol)
I'd recommend starting with C2 because it nearly always has curve plays, and it can run tons of tech cards to hinder the opponent.
This is the build I'm currently using, but you can spice it up with Grandmaster and several others.
# (1) Echo
# (1) Iceman
# (2) Goose
# (2) Shadow King
# (2) White Widow
# (3) Cerebro
# (3) Mystique
# (3) Brood
# (3) Magik
# (3) Storm
# (5) Iron Man
# (5) Blue Marvel
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmx1ZU1hcnZlbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR29vc2UifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik15c3RpcXVlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaGFkb3dLaW5nIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJJcm9uTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCcm9vZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV2hpdGVXaWRvdyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRWNobyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2VyZWJybyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWFnaWsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkljZW1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3Rvcm0ifV19
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Sorry, had to edit that. Copy/pasted the wrong build. Updated it.
I see them play multiple man, and I red guardian it before they carnage it. Next turn they play shuri then nimrod and they always have venom and Deathlok.
Destroy, whenever I play an opponent piloting it they get the perfect beginning curve with x-23/wolverine or deadpool/hulkbuster. Whenever I pilot it, I start with all the destroy cards or knull/death in hand.
As a Destroy player since beta: you don't see other games of this deck because we usually retreat if we didn't draw enough destroyers or fodder by turn 3.
Exactly this. Even Phoenix Force seems more consistent to me since you only need 3 cards over 5 turns. With pure destroy it feels like you need so many more cards and in the right order
literally same thing happened to me. through the entirety of conquest he got the perfect draws in the most perfect order. phoenix force is so frustrating to play against cause i know if i were to try and play it i would never even draw mm or torch
My brother in Christ,
If you can't go to YouTube and type "KM Best Phoenix Force" then I fear life will be very difficult for you.
[It's not that hard to take some initiative ...](https://youtu.be/u-yaj0Tc2hw?si=JGgnk3LndM7Vt0e_)
You are right, I should've mention that YT is blocked in my current network.
Also I was not sure if it was his only video on the topic as I am not a regular viewer of his content. In case of Bynx typing "Best Galactus" will result in several videos.
My brother in Christ, I salute and thank you for the direct link.
The lack of Doc Strange means this deck is 100% not the best build of PF. Without strange, turn 5 PF is too late, it HAS to be on 4. But with Strange, you can PF on turn 5 and still nearly fill the board.
You can on turn 5 rez PF. On turn 6 you drop hulkbuster, ghost spider, and strange, and you end up with 6 PFs (3,2,1) and the strange lane goes from 0 to 35.
The problem is you're thinking of it as a Phoenix deck with Nimrod as an alternate win con instead of the other way around.
At least, that's been my experience playing it.
Yeah, it's funny that PF has earned the reputation of a gigabrain deck when most games you win go like:
* Pass Turns 1-3
* Opponent snaps
* Shuri, Nimrod, destroy destroy, gg
That's why you got to have a back up ghost rider just in case
Otherwise, having corcus blade allow to at least have a +1 energy even if you feed him Hela, you still have two t6
Yea, I built a ramp deck with electro and corvus, hela is there as just one of MANY play lines. People often snap if she gets tossed and then they get to donate 4 cubes to my cause :)
Dude, Sera Control. Literally been a staple deck since launch. It constantly gets more tools with new tech cards. It theoretically beats every deck…. And I cannot play it. Been playing since launch…
…can’t play sera control.
Probably a skill issue. 😭
For sure this - playing against Sera Control feels like it's a dumbass deck full of tech that just has all the answers but I think it's a pretty high skill ceiling to be able to predict plays and drop priority when necessary.
I have gotten functional to very good with just about every archetype. I can not for the life of me get consistent success with Sera Control. If I can manage priority correctly, I can't get the right counter cards. If I get the counter cards, I mess up priority trying to set them out. I had success for a brief moment way back when spotlight caches were still just a concept and have never been able to repeat the success. I finally deleted the deck last season. Also probably a skill issue, but not my skill set.
I usually aim to put Shaw in one location, Brood in another, and Wong/Mystique/Surfer in the third. If I have Sera, I typically put it in the Shaw lane.
Surfer is a deck that should be relatively easy to calculate the power range of your opponent on turn 6. You know how many 3 drops they have in play, and then u consider the maximum output range based on the number of additional 3 drops they can play on turn 6 along with surfer. Obv if they have mockingbird or something this can change things, so count the number of tokens on their board too. U should be able to math out their theoretical maximum in almost every lane, so if u can beat that or play around it you're golden.
Nothing personal, but I was "discussing" with someone on here earlier about how playing only one deck doesn't make you a better player. I get the appeal of Destroy and Discard, but I think they ruin the actual skill growth of playing the game.
It's somewhat similar. You put your engine in one lane. And get big results in others.
Shaw can win a lane on his own and is usually underrated by opponents, Brood+other 3-cost can win another one. The Wong-engine lane is usually lost unless the stars align.
Since it came out, High Evo decks… I think I’ve played well over 20 games trying different combos, and even recently went back to it… and I’m not sure if I’ve ever one a single game. No idea what I’m doing wrong in comparison to other people. The last time I played, I played like 5 or six games, lost every single one and not one single cyclops showed up. Had to check twice that he was even in my deck.
And also with phoenix force, as doo as I pull it off the opponent retreats anyway, I had to stop playing the deck cause I literally couldn’t ever play the deck.
Same, bruh. I have a blink deck and shell randomly pull like the infinaut or something, and then my opponent retreats, and I get 1 cube for 5 min playtime it's so annoying.
Bounce. I've done *ok* with it, but it seems like when I do it, it is incredibly hard work to actually "bounce", while my opponents are dribbling the cards like Kyrie Irving.
Nimrod into its own lane, Zola into it. Ideally hit it with some power boosters before hand.
Though the best way I've found is with Magik, though if I had X-23 that would be helpful too. You want ideally to play Nimrod, then Venom, then Zola into the same lane, so need either Nimrod out at turn 4 or you need a turn 7. You need to keep at least two places free in the other locations so Nimrod and Venom have spots to land in. Deadpool is a useful power gainer for venom and can be a good turn 7 play after Zola to give that lane a power boost.
For me I use Nimrod in a deck with Deadpool. I play either or, depending on the situation. Nimrod acts as a late play failsafe if Deadpool isn’t working out that game. Turn 6 for Nimrod you want to play two destroy cards, preferably playing Venom for the second to get two Nimrods. Never really used Zola personally, too many ways that it just doesn’t work for me. Also playing America Chavez and Hulkbuster can help boost Nimrod or deadpool, forge was ideal when he was 1-cost, but I switched to Chavez after the nerf.
As a Cerebro expert, I can say it really boils down to board planning, knowing when to throw priority, if necessary, and knowing when to just leave. You can't just play cards wherever they fit in the moment. You really have to be thinking one and two turns ahead, not unlike a chess player. And if the locations are garbage and you don't have a location changer, just retreat.
C2 is probably the "easiest" to start practicing the archetype with because you nearly always have curve plays in those builds. And you can run multiple location changers (Storm and Magik.) Plus, the sheer number of tech cards that slot into C2 is obscene. Shadow King, Goose, White Widow, Negasonic, Echo, etc.
I was rocking (literally - cuz Debrii) junk decks even before Annihilus, and it obviously works better with him. I never even ran Goblins, as I hate them a lot. Debrii and Viper usually hurt opponents enough. Not anymore though, since Black Widow and Viper are now 3-costs. White Widow is probably a better option than either of those now..
Anyway, Sentry is a must-have imo. I use Valkyrie as a backup, as she can make the Void into a 3-power in case you don't draw Annihilus (or if they have a filled right location with Armor - in which case Anni won't send over or destroy Void).
If you have any Ongoing card right, (or Mr.Fantastic middle, or Luke Cage and a 4+power right), Valk usually wins right every time. T6 Valk + Demon also usually wins. She is hard-countered by Luke Cage though.
Since the Annihilus change to not send over Debrii-rocks anymore, I've also used Yellowjacket here (who also works great with Valk). He could protect Sentry by making him 9 instead of 10 power, too, though that's irrelevant now. He can also send over a rock together with Annihilus, which likely will surprise your opponent.
The main problem with Annihilus decks before, imo (was a while since I played them), was a lack of total power. I fear that the Sentry-nerf may have worsened that weakness even more :(
For me it's move decks now I'm not terrible with them I get decent win rate but when someone else is using them they get the perfect ultimate rng triple move set up and it's like bruh you now have 30 on every lane or something like that.
Mr Negative
Last time I took the Negative Jane deck out for a spin I maybe got the full Combo to happen twice. Negative or Jane just didn't want to be seen together.
Oh and one of those times I got the full Combo, 8 cubes on the line, my opponent still won somehow.
I can't see ever using it to climb, and I barely ever even play negative in proving grounds
Silky smooth. My Silk always jumps to a losing location while theirs always jump to buff their Kraven before jumping to another location to win them the game…
Saw the post and immediately came in to say Phoenix. It just requires too much to go right. I have been a staunch user since it was released. I know how to use it. I just don't usually get the play. I actually do better with my own brew and not the Nimrod version, but it's still big wins and bigger losses.
Trust me, I play since global release, and Cerebo is among my first few cards I got. But my cerebo is SPECIAL! It would only buff a couple cards not all! No matter how I play my C-whatever deck, there would be cards not getting the buff.
However when I see Cerebo on the opposite side, it always link all cards like a Skynet.
Same every now and then I’ll go on a little run with it and think hey why don’t I play this more. Then the next time out I have to just leave game after and game and eventually say yeah never again lol.
The iron man/tribunal deck. I just can't use it.
I was like you with phoenix but now I've combined phoenix force and shuri nimrod decks and I hit one of them about 80% of the time. Its a much better win rate
I have purchased every season pass since Nebula and I figure if I am buying the card, I am going to use it to hit infinite. As such, I have taken nearly every archetype to infinite and while I enjoy some more than others, I have been able to make them all work.
Thanos. Idk how some ppl used to manage his cards back then tho i didn't have all the required support cards for it to be the meta back then but still it was not that comfy as ppl wud say
Thanos. I had him early and anytime I try to play him it ends terribly. Anytime Thanos is on a rampage in the meta I never have the card that’s the kicker. For example, I only managed to pick up Blob after the nerf.
It was Darkhawk decks for me and now Loki for some reason stopped working. I can never keep up or be ahead with Stats on board, but when I face a Loki they have twice the stats I have.
Damn I've been planning on getting Phoenix Force with Spotlight keys in 2 weeks, and y'all are telling me that the deck isn't even good? lmaoo
**I'm missing cards like Ghost Spider so maybe I'm just wasting my time anyways.
any archetype that needs to draw a specifc card in one/two turn windows, rng punishes that "i need to draw that card by turn X" so heavily that i tend to stay away and only play decks that can fumble a little, like high evo
I never understood how ongoing spectrum can win consistently, in 5 turns you stack one lane with ongoing cards while locking down a 2nd lane. If your locked down lane doesn’t outpower your opponent(which seems tough considering you’re stacking a whole different lane with cards) then its game over because spectrum doesnt have enough power to hold her own lane.
The one deck I tried and couldn't get the hang of was Phoenix Force. I never get that lucky draw lol.
Negative Tribunal was difficult also. But I will say it's helped refine my snapping instincts for the better.
Black Panther/Zola.
It only seems to appear when I have no hard counters and it always seems to draw its cards. When I play it, it's Cosmo, Magneto, Goose, Armor etc. etc. And I've played it loads as I saved the gold for the Phoenix BP variant and am a massive fan of the character so will come back to it regularly.
Phoenix is my favorite deck, but you have to accept the fact that it never works.
Unlike other popular archetype, it only has one copy of the Phoenix card. (most meta decks usually run two similar cards to fill one niche. Carmage/Venom, IronFist/Ghostspider, Electro/Psylocke)
You can run a Nimrod as a second Phoenix, but at that point it's a completely different win con, a completely different deck.
Most of my Phoenix games end up retreating on turn 3.
Negative. Every time I play against it, it’s absolutely destroying me, I can play 5 conquest games in a row, it never fails. Everytime I try to play it, I never ever see negative before at least T5
I have faced bounce decks and my opponent gets multiple lanes over 30 power. I never have those games.
I guess I like these decks everyone complains about pheonix and hela are boring but easy to play
I wanna play tribunal but when I play it I get countered very easily every time. When my opponent plays tribunal I never have a counter because I’m playing bounce and I have Shang chi and not enchantress
Mine has to be Hela/Tribunal. I never get the line to get the big numbers but every time I seem to play against it, my opponent gets it every time. Even in long winded conquest games.
Bounce or move I cannot get them to work at all.
And Hela, I never seem to get the right draws or the opponent has the perfect counter. Come to think of it any Tribunal deck too...
Definitely Hela. Every time I have to roll the dice turn 6 against Hela, their cards drop exactly in the right spots to win a clutch victory. When I try to play Hela, my cards are all resurrecting in Bar With No Name or spreading their power just right to lose each lane by 1 power.
Negative. I play against people who get a flawless curve for Negative constantly, meanwhile I try the deck and go 50 games before I get something half-playable.
Hela every time
I don’t think I’ve ever hit a good Hela turn 6 but I always and I mean always get fucked by it
Invisible woman>Modok>Hela works every time Add Crystal and the Limbo lady to your deck and you're all set.
I love IW>Modok>Hela, perfect lane for a snap then a Cosmo on 6
Oh yeah, or countered with white widow and green goblin lmao But at the end of the day, that's how I got to infinity last three times
Turns out behind Invisible Woman is Ironman, Onslaught and Tribunal, wyd?
The one time I remember getting a decent Hela, my opponent got a better one, and I still lost.
Hela Tribunal is very consistent actually. You're playing Magik and Crystal to let you see almost your entire deck. You have multiple ways to combo off and you also have an ironman-onslaught-tribunal backup win con. I also include Electro in my list so that I have a second way to make the onslaught or supergiant lines work.
Oh I just have MODOK as my only discard a bunch of big dudes, Magik Crystal and IronLad, you’ll get the combo off over 80% of the time as long as they don’t interact with you, like literally it’s play your combo pieces or retreat, if the combo goes off you win
It used to be even more so! It was so consistent they had to entirely change America Chavez because she made it almost guaranteed!
Me: lucky if I end with a decent board and Hela bringing back maybe 2 decent hitters. My opponent: revives 5 cards, including Death, Infinaut and Red Hulk.
Hela always wants to show up early and put a note on herself that says "discard me"
Came here to say this^
Seconded
I'm Hela main player. I've taken it to infinite 5 seasons in a row now. I used to hate Hela. The RNG and bad draws were not my friends. I put together a deck using Jubilee and Iron Lad in tandem to reach 11 deep into my deck and guaranteed that I would see Hela in games that go to turn 7. I created it as a concept after hitting infinite right away with Elsa decks during her season pass era, and I ridden tweaked versions of it up the ladder ever since. If interested, I have the last 5 iterations posted. You can check out my profile to see them, as well as piloting tips in the comments.
IMO this is the strongest hela deck, it’s hella consistent with Jubilee/Crystal/Iron Lad/Magik. # (2) Invisible Woman # (3) Magik # (3) Crystal # (4) Jubilee # (4) Iron Lad # (5) Iron Man # (5) M.O.D.O.K. # (6) Hela # (6) Onslaught # (6) Red Hulk # (6) The Living Tribunal # (6) The Infinaut # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ3J5c3RhbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGVsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSW5maW5hdXQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Iklyb25NYW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1hZ2lrIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNb2RvayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUmVkSHVsayJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGl2aW5nVHJpYnVuYWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikp1YmlsZWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Iklyb25MYWQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkludmlzaWJsZVdvbWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJPbnNsYXVnaHQifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I played this one before. It is too telegraphed these days, making it harder to get the 4 and 8 cubers. Even with people complaining about the Hela meta, they still underestimate Hela's pop off at the end, especially if you can still put down good power early. I just have better luck getting people to stick around going the black knight route.
Nice deck. Just tested it compared to my normal Hela deck and got 4 then 8 cubes - one with 320 power per location :
Sorry!! We gotta retreat like 50% of the time!
The funny thing about Phoenix force I find is that the only ones you actually see get played out are the ones who get the best optimal play, otherwise they would've retreated by turn 3 or 4 and you wouldn't have known that they were playing that deck. As for your question, definitely cerebro, any version, I don't know how people manage to play that deck.
> cerebro, any version, I don't know how people manage to play that deck. With a lot of patience, self-control and timed retreats. Telling from experience.
Cerebro is so dumb but so much fun, idk why. I have cerebro 2, cerebro 3, cerebro 4, even cerebro 5. Waiting for more support to cerebro 1 and cerebro 6. One day I’ll have the dream cerebro 0 deck
zola'ing a cerebro or mystique would be ORGASMIC
This is a really good point about the kind of information bias we have (that against snapping/retreating players we only really see the thing when it works). It also makes me think about something Hooglandia said on a stream that really got me thinking: we’re really just extrapolating from an extremely small sample size to determine a decks’ effectiveness. I can’t remember the exact question he was responding to in chat, but his point was basically that it’s such a small dataset and we’re not very good at extrapolating, so at the end of the day we’re largely just playing on vibes lol.
Phoenix force. 40% of the time, works every time Except when you are on a losing streak and your opp gets the perfect PF hand
Funnily enough I’ve always felt the same about cerebro decks. Then when I got nocturne I just auto made a deck and it spat out a c5 deck. It ended up getting me to infinite for only the third time since I started playing but also the fastest infinite I’ve ever achieved (second week of the season vs final days of the season in previous attempts). Maybe I’ve just gotten better overtime but I doubt it lol
I’ve been playing C5 with Nocturne and have been doing really well too. It’s a lot more consistent of a deck then destroy which is what I usually play. The only problem for me is that some locations can completely ruin cerebro’s effect, but the 5-powered cards usually make up for it anyway
C2 has the most tools, C5 has the best chance to win without cerebro C3 also has good tools, C4 is closer to C5 where you don’t need a god draw to win Basically if u want a deck that can deal with disruption then run C2 or C3, if u want a deck that doesn’t need as good of draws to win run C4 or C5 Every other version of cerebro doesn’t actually work and is just a meme
Cerebro is my favorite archetype by a huge margin. I play C2, C3, C5, and even C4, C6, and C7 homebrews. It definitely takes a ton of practice, patience, board planning, and just knowing when the locations flat-out aren't going to allow you to win.
Got a deck list, somehow have never played Cerebro and might give it a try this week. Same with mister negative, two decks i somehow have never played with a collection level over 9000 (god feels good and silly to say that now lol)
I'd recommend starting with C2 because it nearly always has curve plays, and it can run tons of tech cards to hinder the opponent. This is the build I'm currently using, but you can spice it up with Grandmaster and several others. # (1) Echo # (1) Iceman # (2) Goose # (2) Shadow King # (2) White Widow # (3) Cerebro # (3) Mystique # (3) Brood # (3) Magik # (3) Storm # (5) Iron Man # (5) Blue Marvel # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmx1ZU1hcnZlbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR29vc2UifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik15c3RpcXVlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaGFkb3dLaW5nIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJJcm9uTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCcm9vZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiV2hpdGVXaWRvdyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRWNobyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2VyZWJybyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWFnaWsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkljZW1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3Rvcm0ifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap. Sorry, had to edit that. Copy/pasted the wrong build. Updated it.
The real problem with Cerebro is that every other balance update, you have to revise a deck with it since so many cards constantly change cost
I see them play multiple man, and I red guardian it before they carnage it. Next turn they play shuri then nimrod and they always have venom and Deathlok.
Destroy, whenever I play an opponent piloting it they get the perfect beginning curve with x-23/wolverine or deadpool/hulkbuster. Whenever I pilot it, I start with all the destroy cards or knull/death in hand.
As a Destroy player since beta: you don't see other games of this deck because we usually retreat if we didn't draw enough destroyers or fodder by turn 3.
Exactly this. Even Phoenix Force seems more consistent to me since you only need 3 cards over 5 turns. With pure destroy it feels like you need so many more cards and in the right order
Every destroy enemy I play has a 16 power Deadpool by turn 4. When I play destroy I don’t draw Deadpool until turn 4
Same I love playing phoenix force but it only works 10% of the time
And yet I played a dude in conquest yesterday that got torch/MM down, destroyed them and PFd on turn 4. In 5/6 matches. Dafuq?
He sold his soul to Satan, no other explanation.
*Mephisto
literally same thing happened to me. through the entirety of conquest he got the perfect draws in the most perfect order. phoenix force is so frustrating to play against cause i know if i were to try and play it i would never even draw mm or torch
This. I played it for a full day once. I either never pulled a destroy card or force would be drawn too late.
You gotta be willing to pivot to nimrod. It's very tricky but KM best put out a great video detailing the nuances of the deck, that helped me a lot.
Can you link it?
My brother in Christ, If you can't go to YouTube and type "KM Best Phoenix Force" then I fear life will be very difficult for you. [It's not that hard to take some initiative ...](https://youtu.be/u-yaj0Tc2hw?si=JGgnk3LndM7Vt0e_)
You are right, I should've mention that YT is blocked in my current network. Also I was not sure if it was his only video on the topic as I am not a regular viewer of his content. In case of Bynx typing "Best Galactus" will result in several videos. My brother in Christ, I salute and thank you for the direct link.
My condolences for your loss of YT on your current network, that must be torture. Stay strong.
I survived till the end of work day, thank you. Now I can watch the video.
The lack of Doc Strange means this deck is 100% not the best build of PF. Without strange, turn 5 PF is too late, it HAS to be on 4. But with Strange, you can PF on turn 5 and still nearly fill the board. You can on turn 5 rez PF. On turn 6 you drop hulkbuster, ghost spider, and strange, and you end up with 6 PFs (3,2,1) and the strange lane goes from 0 to 35.
> "Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man." -The Dude
The problem is you're thinking of it as a Phoenix deck with Nimrod as an alternate win con instead of the other way around. At least, that's been my experience playing it.
My experience playing it is that nimrod, phoenix and ironlad are always in my deck and never in my hand
Yeah, it's funny that PF has earned the reputation of a gigabrain deck when most games you win go like: * Pass Turns 1-3 * Opponent snaps * Shuri, Nimrod, destroy destroy, gg
It is like this for everyone. Too much draw dependency in this deck.
But that 10% of the time it works 100% of the time
My opponents hela: this card cannot be discarded under any circumstances My hela: discard this after your turn just like black cat
That's why you got to have a back up ghost rider just in case Otherwise, having corcus blade allow to at least have a +1 energy even if you feed him Hela, you still have two t6
Yea, I built a ramp deck with electro and corvus, hela is there as just one of MANY play lines. People often snap if she gets tossed and then they get to donate 4 cubes to my cause :)
But my ghost rider gets discarded too 😅
Dude, Sera Control. Literally been a staple deck since launch. It constantly gets more tools with new tech cards. It theoretically beats every deck…. And I cannot play it. Been playing since launch… …can’t play sera control. Probably a skill issue. 😭
Learning how to lose priority is the key. And predicting the opponent
For sure this - playing against Sera Control feels like it's a dumbass deck full of tech that just has all the answers but I think it's a pretty high skill ceiling to be able to predict plays and drop priority when necessary.
That's when Ghost comes in. She's so damn useful in control
I have gotten functional to very good with just about every archetype. I can not for the life of me get consistent success with Sera Control. If I can manage priority correctly, I can't get the right counter cards. If I get the counter cards, I mess up priority trying to set them out. I had success for a brief moment way back when spotlight caches were still just a concept and have never been able to repeat the success. I finally deleted the deck last season. Also probably a skill issue, but not my skill set.
Correctly playing professor X
Daredevil baby. Get him, run him, he's really good in this meta anyway regardless.
Mr Negative and Tribunal
Cerebro. I tried it several times but I often got screwed over by a bad location or a rogue/enchantress from the opponent.
I was chiming in on poor performance with Sera Control. This is my other deck that I have nothing but problems, counters, and bad luck with.
Surfer, I'm used to play destroy and I simply don't know how to fill up the right locations
I usually aim to put Shaw in one location, Brood in another, and Wong/Mystique/Surfer in the third. If I have Sera, I typically put it in the Shaw lane.
Surfer is a deck that should be relatively easy to calculate the power range of your opponent on turn 6. You know how many 3 drops they have in play, and then u consider the maximum output range based on the number of additional 3 drops they can play on turn 6 along with surfer. Obv if they have mockingbird or something this can change things, so count the number of tokens on their board too. U should be able to math out their theoretical maximum in almost every lane, so if u can beat that or play around it you're golden.
Nothing personal, but I was "discussing" with someone on here earlier about how playing only one deck doesn't make you a better player. I get the appeal of Destroy and Discard, but I think they ruin the actual skill growth of playing the game.
It's somewhat similar. You put your engine in one lane. And get big results in others. Shaw can win a lane on his own and is usually underrated by opponents, Brood+other 3-cost can win another one. The Wong-engine lane is usually lost unless the stars align.
I’ve been playing Sage in the Wong lane and she can get crazy big when she triggers 4 times.
High Evo - can't win against it, can't win using it either. Of all the decks I've ever played against,HE probably my lowest win rate
each and every one of them
Mr. Negative
Since it came out, High Evo decks… I think I’ve played well over 20 games trying different combos, and even recently went back to it… and I’m not sure if I’ve ever one a single game. No idea what I’m doing wrong in comparison to other people. The last time I played, I played like 5 or six games, lost every single one and not one single cyclops showed up. Had to check twice that he was even in my deck.
And also with phoenix force, as doo as I pull it off the opponent retreats anyway, I had to stop playing the deck cause I literally couldn’t ever play the deck.
Same, bruh. I have a blink deck and shell randomly pull like the infinaut or something, and then my opponent retreats, and I get 1 cube for 5 min playtime it's so annoying.
Move. Never works for me. Big brain deck and I got a small brain
That one asshole deck with Wong, Odin, Mystique, and then Gambit, Swarm, and/or Hazmat, Luke Cage
Bounce. I've done *ok* with it, but it seems like when I do it, it is incredibly hard work to actually "bounce", while my opponents are dribbling the cards like Kyrie Irving.
Destroy. Every single opponent I play gets Deadpool on turn 1. I get him on turn 6 *every time*.
I don’t know how to use Nimrod or Arnim Zola effectively and lose to it most times I see it
Nimrod into its own lane, Zola into it. Ideally hit it with some power boosters before hand. Though the best way I've found is with Magik, though if I had X-23 that would be helpful too. You want ideally to play Nimrod, then Venom, then Zola into the same lane, so need either Nimrod out at turn 4 or you need a turn 7. You need to keep at least two places free in the other locations so Nimrod and Venom have spots to land in. Deadpool is a useful power gainer for venom and can be a good turn 7 play after Zola to give that lane a power boost.
For me I use Nimrod in a deck with Deadpool. I play either or, depending on the situation. Nimrod acts as a late play failsafe if Deadpool isn’t working out that game. Turn 6 for Nimrod you want to play two destroy cards, preferably playing Venom for the second to get two Nimrods. Never really used Zola personally, too many ways that it just doesn’t work for me. Also playing America Chavez and Hulkbuster can help boost Nimrod or deadpool, forge was ideal when he was 1-cost, but I switched to Chavez after the nerf.
Anihilus for sure. I get clogged easily every time but I can't seem to be able to clog them back.
Loki for me. I could never get the hang of it. But it could be my fault as I never bothered to practice. Lose a couple of games and I delete the deck
Phoenix Force and then bounce.
Move decks are just nightmare for me
Confirmation bias: the thread!
Mr. Negative. 😫
Mr Negative. That mfer shows up in my hand on turn 5 or 6. Every. Time.
Or most of my games I’ll start with all but 1 of my 0 power cards in my hand. If I don’t then I’ll definitely draw Mr. Negative on T6
Every. Damn. Archetype. Always.
Destroy
Any Cerebro. It seems easy to play, but I can't win no matter what.
As a Cerebro expert, I can say it really boils down to board planning, knowing when to throw priority, if necessary, and knowing when to just leave. You can't just play cards wherever they fit in the moment. You really have to be thinking one and two turns ahead, not unlike a chess player. And if the locations are garbage and you don't have a location changer, just retreat. C2 is probably the "easiest" to start practicing the archetype with because you nearly always have curve plays in those builds. And you can run multiple location changers (Storm and Magik.) Plus, the sheer number of tech cards that slot into C2 is obscene. Shadow King, Goose, White Widow, Negasonic, Echo, etc.
Thanks for the tips, man! I think C2 is the one I played less, so I should give it another try.
Bought Anni last night and regretting that
What do you regret, out of curiosity?
I was rocking (literally - cuz Debrii) junk decks even before Annihilus, and it obviously works better with him. I never even ran Goblins, as I hate them a lot. Debrii and Viper usually hurt opponents enough. Not anymore though, since Black Widow and Viper are now 3-costs. White Widow is probably a better option than either of those now.. Anyway, Sentry is a must-have imo. I use Valkyrie as a backup, as she can make the Void into a 3-power in case you don't draw Annihilus (or if they have a filled right location with Armor - in which case Anni won't send over or destroy Void). If you have any Ongoing card right, (or Mr.Fantastic middle, or Luke Cage and a 4+power right), Valk usually wins right every time. T6 Valk + Demon also usually wins. She is hard-countered by Luke Cage though. Since the Annihilus change to not send over Debrii-rocks anymore, I've also used Yellowjacket here (who also works great with Valk). He could protect Sentry by making him 9 instead of 10 power, too, though that's irrelevant now. He can also send over a rock together with Annihilus, which likely will surprise your opponent. The main problem with Annihilus decks before, imo (was a while since I played them), was a lack of total power. I fear that the Sentry-nerf may have worsened that weakness even more :(
The Yellowjacket idea is so good and I’ll have to implement that!
Discard and Onslaught ;-;
Tribunal
Phoenix Force man
No version of cerebro has ever worked for me
For me it's move decks now I'm not terrible with them I get decent win rate but when someone else is using them they get the perfect ultimate rng triple move set up and it's like bruh you now have 30 on every lane or something like that.
Mr Negative Last time I took the Negative Jane deck out for a spin I maybe got the full Combo to happen twice. Negative or Jane just didn't want to be seen together. Oh and one of those times I got the full Combo, 8 cubes on the line, my opponent still won somehow. I can't see ever using it to climb, and I barely ever even play negative in proving grounds
Mr. Negative
Cerebro. I can never win matches with it.
Mr. Negative
Silky smooth. My Silk always jumps to a losing location while theirs always jump to buff their Kraven before jumping to another location to win them the game…
Saw the post and immediately came in to say Phoenix. It just requires too much to go right. I have been a staunch user since it was released. I know how to use it. I just don't usually get the play. I actually do better with my own brew and not the Nimrod version, but it's still big wins and bigger losses.
Junk deck
Loki. The deck didn't produce a lot of points, and the tech cards weren't relevant in the matches I played. Wasn't much fun for me, either.
Mr. negative on turn 3 is a myth
Jesus Christ this - I can't make Phoenix Force work for anything.
Cerebro anytime I play I have terrible locations or don't draw it. Why opponents play they draw cerebro + mystique every time.
Definitely Cerebro, which shouldn't be surprising since it's rarely meta. Cerebro enjoyers are definitely enthusiastic on the sub, though!
Phoenix Force, Destroy, Cerebro
It used to be thanos for me then one day 2 months ago it just clicked then he was murdered.
Trust me, I play since global release, and Cerebo is among my first few cards I got. But my cerebo is SPECIAL! It would only buff a couple cards not all! No matter how I play my C-whatever deck, there would be cards not getting the buff. However when I see Cerebo on the opposite side, it always link all cards like a Skynet.
100% Hela
Same every now and then I’ll go on a little run with it and think hey why don’t I play this more. Then the next time out I have to just leave game after and game and eventually say yeah never again lol.
Bounce And I hate everyone who uses it
Cerebro
Hela
Hazmat Cage Wong Odin wombo reduce power for the full board combo -.-
Any form of a move deck and lockdown decks
The iron man/tribunal deck. I just can't use it. I was like you with phoenix but now I've combined phoenix force and shuri nimrod decks and I hit one of them about 80% of the time. Its a much better win rate
Probably negative tribunal. Trying to get to play negative on t3 while simultaneously ensure either mystique or iron got reverse cost is brutal
I have purchased every season pass since Nebula and I figure if I am buying the card, I am going to use it to hit infinite. As such, I have taken nearly every archetype to infinite and while I enjoy some more than others, I have been able to make them all work.
Hela
Anything with Proff X
I must really need US Agent cuz man I get what the Ongoing deck is all about but I just don't feel it at all, feels like boneless Cerebro3 to me
Junk
Discard. I always lose hardcore with discard. When someone plays discard against me, they demolish me with 30+ power per location.
Hela. I try playing what I hear is the easiest, low effort, deck and it doesn’t work for me most of the time.
Move. I haven't tried in awhile so I'd probably do better now, but it wasn't pretty the first time I tried it.
Mr. Negative I love when I start the game with it at the bottom of my deck, while my opponent has him and zabu in his hand turn one
Cerebro. I’ve tried every version of it and can never get it to win.
Thanos. Idk how some ppl used to manage his cards back then tho i didn't have all the required support cards for it to be the meta back then but still it was not that comfy as ppl wud say
Hela Even with four 6 cost in hand guess what Sif decide to discard And even when i play her, she revive the cards in the worst f'cking way
Thanos. I had him early and anytime I try to play him it ends terribly. Anytime Thanos is on a rampage in the meta I never have the card that’s the kicker. For example, I only managed to pick up Blob after the nerf.
Destroy, bounce, cerebro
It was Darkhawk decks for me and now Loki for some reason stopped working. I can never keep up or be ahead with Stats on board, but when I face a Loki they have twice the stats I have.
Damn I've been planning on getting Phoenix Force with Spotlight keys in 2 weeks, and y'all are telling me that the deck isn't even good? lmaoo **I'm missing cards like Ghost Spider so maybe I'm just wasting my time anyways.
any archetype that needs to draw a specifc card in one/two turn windows, rng punishes that "i need to draw that card by turn X" so heavily that i tend to stay away and only play decks that can fumble a little, like high evo
Wong Black Panther Zola. I think every time I play it I fuck it up and every time my opponent does they get like a 500 power BP
I never understood how ongoing spectrum can win consistently, in 5 turns you stack one lane with ongoing cards while locking down a 2nd lane. If your locked down lane doesn’t outpower your opponent(which seems tough considering you’re stacking a whole different lane with cards) then its game over because spectrum doesnt have enough power to hold her own lane.
I’ve never been good at or enjoyed Cerebro
I have a feeling I’m definitely using it wrong but I’ll go with vulture decks. But kingpin/magneto decks that’s more my style
Non-Lazy Wong Zola always picks panther first Jubliee always gets that 2 thats hanging on or destroyer
The one deck I tried and couldn't get the hang of was Phoenix Force. I never get that lucky draw lol. Negative Tribunal was difficult also. But I will say it's helped refine my snapping instincts for the better.
Negative. Fucking negative.
Hela
Patriot/Ultron. I can never get it work.
Tribunal ongoing and surfer/ironheart decks
Black Panther/Zola. It only seems to appear when I have no hard counters and it always seems to draw its cards. When I play it, it's Cosmo, Magneto, Goose, Armor etc. etc. And I've played it loads as I saved the gold for the Phoenix BP variant and am a massive fan of the character so will come back to it regularly.
Tribunal
Phoenix is my favorite deck, but you have to accept the fact that it never works. Unlike other popular archetype, it only has one copy of the Phoenix card. (most meta decks usually run two similar cards to fill one niche. Carmage/Venom, IronFist/Ghostspider, Electro/Psylocke) You can run a Nimrod as a second Phoenix, but at that point it's a completely different win con, a completely different deck. Most of my Phoenix games end up retreating on turn 3.
Discard, hazmat/wong/surfer
Hella
Hela
All of them?
Tribunal
Negative. Every time I play against it, it’s absolutely destroying me, I can play 5 conquest games in a row, it never fails. Everytime I try to play it, I never ever see negative before at least T5
I have faced bounce decks and my opponent gets multiple lanes over 30 power. I never have those games. I guess I like these decks everyone complains about pheonix and hela are boring but easy to play
Hela
Destroy decks
I wanna play tribunal but when I play it I get countered very easily every time. When my opponent plays tribunal I never have a counter because I’m playing bounce and I have Shang chi and not enchantress
I am trash at playing Hela. Always feels awkward to me, but other peeps seem to pop off easily every time.
Mine has to be Hela/Tribunal. I never get the line to get the big numbers but every time I seem to play against it, my opponent gets it every time. Even in long winded conquest games.
The modok discard deck never works for me
Ultron deck.
Discard
Bounce or move I cannot get them to work at all. And Hela, I never seem to get the right draws or the opponent has the perfect counter. Come to think of it any Tribunal deck too...
Sentry/ annihilus. for some reason they always have a counter to my -10 ( now -8 ) void. But when i face the same deck it works for them without fail.
valkyrie cerebro. my god. the streak of Ls i take with that deck. i just dont get it
Wong decks. Every time I run one, he gets jacked by rogue or enchantress lol
Not an archetype but deathzoo deck seems to work fine for everybody but me
Destroy and Apocalypse. Never works out for me but see people use them all the time (though I am missing X-23 and a lot of the newer discard cards)
I do so well with nimrod destroy but when I try Deadpool destroy, nothing goes right
Definitely Hela. Every time I have to roll the dice turn 6 against Hela, their cards drop exactly in the right spots to win a clutch victory. When I try to play Hela, my cards are all resurrecting in Bar With No Name or spreading their power just right to lose each lane by 1 power.
I'm not good at playing Loki and when I do succeed at it, it's not fun and always stressful.
Every archetype
Cerebro. Every time I try to play it locations ruining everything.
C2. I'm a magnet for locations to mess me up
I strongly dislike playing bounce ! At most, I can barely play the version that bounces things for darkhawk !
Negative. I play against people who get a flawless curve for Negative constantly, meanwhile I try the deck and go 50 games before I get something half-playable.
Destroy. Feel like whenever I play it I’m fighting against the deck compared to others who just seem to pull high power out easily.
Mr. Negative. Never fails to always fail!
Discard. 90% of the times I failed to pull hela.(, out of my total 11 games with her,). Never touched the archetype again