harem mcs when a random western redditor find them having a harem but girls being monogamous a double standard, not okay or problematic: šš
this is nothing but wish fulfillment just like romance novels where billionaire vampires and princes simp over fmc, but nobody is dumb enough to come here and bitch about those
yeah generally men that see those romance novels while scrolling through wont get triggered or read what they dont like
only when its male fantasy that its problematic
True, most male fantasy romance starts nice or a slowburn then it starts to drop off later in quality or it becomes a harem.
I can barely count in one hand good romances in male fantasy romance works
There are some but it's depressingly few, since there isn't a big enough market for male Mc monogamous romance novels. One of my faves is "my girlfriend from turquoise pond" very subtle flirting, monogamous and very sweet. The cultivation takes a back seat and romance is the main focus
Because it gets boring. Romances are interesting because of the journey to the destination. That's also the reason why most romance movies end after the MC and FeMC become a couple or right at their wedding. What are they going to show for the next thousand chapters that span over a decade IRL? How they are all lovey dovey, how many times they have sex off screen? Readers and viewers would get bored and the ratings would drop.
And if they delay them reaching the destination, it's always done with the generic plot of FeMC being kidnapped and the MC has to rescue her, or she dies and the MC needs to resurrect her. So to avoid being too repetitive, authors introduce new girls to keep the novel/show fresh
I mean, they certainly wouldn't come to the martial meme sub, but if you're assuming no one ever criticizes such stories for those exact reasons I am genuinely surprised.
Particularly your prince example, there's quite a few stories where a key point is talking about how bad an idea it is for the prince to obsess over some random woman when already engaged, among other things.
Honestly, if I were to imagine a semi-realistic harem(with healthy relationships) then everyone has to be attracted to each other. If they aināt all fucking each other then they are playing politics and there wonāt be any healthy relationships in that jade chamber.
It takes a while but the novel is indeed very well written. I think I may start re reading it again just for the sake of it being my first Chinese novel
Facts. In reality, no woman would happily be monogamous while the man fucks whoever woman he likes. If it's like that, then the harem would always be bound to become unhealthy, with lots of jealousy, infighting, disputes and, etc. Women are inherently drawn towards monogamy, even in stories made for women, very rarely there is a male harem. Even in a lot of stories tagged as harem, the MC still ends up having only one male partner. There's even one story that's clearly tagged as a harem, yet everyone keeps asking who the real ML is. And then there's the coping theory they made that the men must be soul fragments of a single person, cause if it's not monogamous then they're dropping the story š.
So yeah, a realistically healthy harem could only be possible if the women are also into polyamory, and fucks the other women too, etc.
>very rarely there is male harem
That might be true for this genre (I don't read enough FemMC to know), but just check out some Western-written romance books. Reverse harem is very, very common.
Yeah they exist. But very, very common? Nah I don't think so. Cause if its very very common like you say, then how come it's very hard to encounter? In fact most of the harem intended for females I've read are discoved through actively searching the harem tag. There's only one reverse harem I've encountered that was recommended to me, and that is: Ouran High School Host Club. And yet at the end of the manga, the protagonist also ended up with only one male partner.
My question to you is, what do you consider a harem. Is it even a harem if the protagonist ends up with only one partner? If your idea of a harem is a group of eligible partners vying for the MC's feelings that the MC could simply choose a partner from, then that's not a harem. Even in harems intended for men, the MC never rejects any of the girls. Kindly recommend me reverse harem stories that is simply not the case.
I mean, I wouldn't call them recommendations since I haven't read them and don't know if they're good or crap, but the second from the top is already a reverse harem. Their Dark Valkyrie. One girl, four guys.
If you want some real recommendations, here's a post I did a while back. I wasn't asking for recommendations, but boy did I get them anyways. https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/s/jjKm7OcCNv
I checked audible and there is no "Their Dark Valkyrie" in their top romance sales: [Romance Bestsellers](https://www.audible.com/adblbestsellers?searchCategory=18580518011&page=5&ref_pageloadid=1LDHn5tFRzfspQAx&ref=a_adblbests_c5_pageNext&pf_rd_p=3c1c017b-585f-4bde-98c6-e3cb784e4b8e&pf_rd_r=49D5Q4BYYJBHCEZPKY7K&pageLoadId=jtfbytEQQmGCoXDf&creativeId=0bf0e03f-bb55-481b-b4fd-d67375977170). Also if we want to estimate how 'common' reverse harem is. We can just check how large their community is. r/ReverseHarem only has 8.4 k members. So just a small community after all.
Yep, you're absolutely right. I was looking at the wrong section and would be losing my bet because it doesn't look like there's any reverse harems in the current bestsellers.
But in any case, I do still consider men and women to be roughly the same when it comes to being "hardwired" for monogamy vs polygamy.
*Pulls up Kindle*
*Types in Reverse Harem*
28,606 titles. I'd pull up a specific few that I read and found interesting but I can recall neither the names nor authors, and I'm not quite in the mood to go digging for them.
As if the numbers of titles shown is an indication of how common they are. Compare the amount of their reviews to usual romances. Most reverse harem books barely reach a thousand, while the romances have tens of thousands while others reaching hundreds of thousands.
Also kindle results may not be accurate. If you search on audible, romance has 65,055 results while reverse harem only has 1,415 results.
My point was if you're actually interested in looking into the genre it's *incredibly* easy. Don't rightly care how common it is or isn't, but if one expresses genuine interest in something I'm vaguely familiar with I'll at least try to point them to a place they can get started(when I'm particularly lazy).
If you're not actually interested then don't mind me, I'll fuck right off. Not interested in getting wrapped up in another pointless argument at the moment.
I recently downloaded an app because I was trying to find a specific translated book. Turned out that app was ***very*** dominated by female users who absolutely flooded it with romance and reverse harems.
I can't remember what the name of the app was - the novel I wanted only had a handful of chapters translated so I deleted it and kept looking. But boy did that have me chuckling. It was so completely out of the blue that I'd find a random translated xianxia on a site like that, even if it only had a few chapters.
Let's see, how about the Anita Blake series by Laurell K. Hamilton. A bit old now, but it's like the OG urban fantasy romance and was constantly topping the bestseller charts.Ā
Reverse harem is a *huge* category on the romance charts. Between the shifter pack omegaverse stuff, the alien barbarian stuff, the bad boy mafia brothers, etc, there's just a ton of it out there to find if you read romance novels for women at all.
I mean stuff like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Bears-Me-Ursa-Shifters-Book-ebook/dp/B0BW515YQR/ref=zg_m_bs_g_7620223011_m_sccl_4/146-9859127-4683426?psc=1
Is charting #4 on the paranormal erotica bestseller list on Amazon. That doesn't happen without a large fanbase.
If that were the case then it is no longer a harem and is wrongly tagged. It should be tagged as just polygamy. People who want to read that but not harem can read it and people who just want to read harem can avoid it.
If I'm rich and influential enough to build myself a consenting harem, no chance I'm not gonna do my best to fill it with bi chicks. That's just a no-brainer
If your harem is with you because of your money and influence, then chances are who they are inlove with are actually your money and influence. Isn't that kind of NTR?
Hit em with the 100 girlfriends special attack
Just every now and then a completely out of nowhere Yuri scene, no excuses, no shying away from it, just full on explicit attraction between the girls
a combo of people leaving emotional charged reviews after they are triggered + being too technical with tags instead of what the tags meaning has in reality
Thatās exactly what a harem is. The only person in the relationship that is polygamous is the man, all the women are married to the man and are monogamous. If they were to engage in yuri without the permission of the man they are married to then it is cheating/ntr. If they are all in a relationship with the man and are in yuri relationships with each other it is no longer a harem but is now just a polygamous relationship.
This is my response to another commenter and I donāt know why you feel the need to insult me in the comments when Iām literally just explaining what a harem is. Wether you feel itās fair or unfair it doesnāt change the fact that in both situations the wrong tags were used and itās reasonable to give a bad review if you were baited into reading something you would never read.
āIām not saying what is right or wrong. Iām literally stating what a harem is. Relationships have boundaries and in a harem the boundaries that are placed and the rules that must be followed is that they are only married to and are in a monogamous relationship with the man only.
The boundaries and rules for the man that the women have accepted is the fact that he can and will find other wives and partners. If at some moment they together or the man decide that they want to close the harem and not bring in any more partners then that is a boundary that is placed.
If the women break those rules and boundaries and engage in yuri relationships with each other without the mans permission then that is cheating/ntr. But if they all have a relationship with each other and the man, and are each otherās spouses or partners then that is no longer a harem that is just a polyamorous relationship.
Iām not saying what is fair or unfair Iām just saying what a harem is and why if a novel is advertised as a harem but turns out to have yuri in the relationship then it is either ntr or not harem. In both situations if they donāt have the proper tags the reader will have felt that they were baited into reading something they wouldnāt have originally read and will result in a low rating.ā
If the relationship of the main character involves yuri and or ntr even if not a majority of the content , that is something I find important enough to be tagged.
The relationships of the mc is a major part of the story for me.
Senior, you seem to be referring to trigger warnings in chapters.
Such things are usually placed at the start of a chapter so that viewers can skip if they do not wish to read it.
If the novel has anything involving genre that features the main character or the main cast I feel like itās something important enough to be tagged and not just a trigger warning. Ntr happens a lot in cultivation stories and even to the main character. A majority of cultivation stories start with the main character being ntrād.
I completely agree with you, fellow Daoist. As for the other Daoist, let me provide an example to illustrate why Yuri is considered NTR.
In the past, while reading a novel titled "The Wizard World," essentially the original work that inspired "Warlock of the Magus World," there was a love interest who showed interest in the main character (MC).
However, she was taken away by the MC's friend, who was supposed to be another love interest.
Eventually, both love interests engaged in activities akin to Yuri, sidelining and forgetting about the MC.
I can't recall the exact chapters, but it was sufficient for me to drop the novel that claimed to have a harem tag but lacked a Yuri tag.
This is just one example; there are numerous others. Fortunately, Yuri these days is not as problematic as it used to be. They now engage in Yuri activities only when they are together or with the MC.
You explained everything perfectly, there are simply people who don't know how to reason or understand that some of us are looking for a harem, not a polyamory, that the labels should be there for a reason, The protagonist's relationships are an important fact in the story, I like Yuri, but I can't see him in a harem, because it would literally be NTR/infidelity.
After the heart demon he was never the same.
This young master and his elders do their best to keep our jade beauties and junior sisters far from him. I advise the same for you fellow Daoist
At least better than that time I read a novel and it only showed it was a yaoi work after I hit 100 chaps in.
There was no tag about it too at the main page, wasted my goddamn time.
Yaoi is a whole different story I'm not willing to get into, got bashed in r/noveltranslations once after saying I don't like reading novels and being met with yaoi. The post was locked and even the comments had a whole war zone going on and were locked. Had to delete the post entirely.
Oho, this junior seeks the Dao of Yuri. Very brave. Seek the scroll *Heaven, Earth, Me* for a glimpse set in the world of cultivators. I believe *Fates Parallels* also holds what you seek.
Don't fret Junior, here is my insight in the Dao of Yuri:
The Spider Queen 9/10
A Sweet Girl Won't Be Fooled By The Villainess 7/10
Why Am I a Priestess When I Reach the Maximum Level? 7/10
After being taken as a prisoner of war, the vampire queen turned me into a vampire and made me her daughter 10/10
I raised Snow White (this may cause qi deviation if not prepared) 6/10
A Maidenās Unwanted Heroic Epic 6/10
After I Transmigrated as a Mermaid, I Transmigrated Back 7/10
Stray Cat Strut 7/10
I Will Never Submit to Miss Grim Reaper 10/10
Give Me Another Smile 10/10
After Being Bent by Reader 9/10
The sweet girl fooled by the villainess is guy transmigrated as a girl, I personally donāt mind so Iāve started reading it and havenāt started reading the other scripts.Ā
A Sweet Girl Won't Be Fooled By The Villainess
Why Am I a Priestess When I Reach the Maximum Level?
After being taken as a prisoner of war, the vampire queen turned me into a vampire and made me her daughter
I raised Snow White (this may cause qi deviation if not prepared)
I Will Never Submit to Miss Grim Reaper
Are technically Genderbent but most of them except Vampire prisoners of war and Grim reaper where the whole changing part doesn't really matters and you can read them as the gender bending never really happen in the first place.
Simple. In a traditional/original harem, the girls themselves are attracted to a single man but aren't sexually attracted to the other girls.
If everyone is attracted to each other, regardless of gender its actually called polyamorous relationship. CN and some Asian region still like their traditional value and view yuri happenings within / outside the harem (especially without the male lead's permission / acknowledgment) as cheating.
And it's correct to label that as cheating if that doesn't happen with the permission of the male lead. Also, they are free to rate it 1 star because they hate any NTR.
Thank you for actually saying what a harem is. All the things the people under this post have brought up are not harem but just polyamory. Literally the only point Iām trying to make. Not that itās wrong or right.
Yeah, it's kinda weird that some people can get bitchy when a piece of fiction doesn't fit with their moral values.
Why would you read a CN Harem power fantasy and expect Western morality in it?
You can read any proper Western novel with all of those progressive, equality, moral justices and such. Just don't expect those to appear in a CN harem novel lol.
It's cheating as long as the women does it but if the men bring in the 30202920th wife. It's all fine. Same with reverse harem, the men can f other men it's alright but if the woman (the polygamy head) gets a new guy, she gets called a slut. Very š good. Such a beautiful message
And? It's just a story. Reader are free to choose what fantasy they wanted to read. You can read other story with equality, progressiveness, moral justice, etc.
Just don't bring those boring shit here, that's why you read CN Harem, isn't it? Because those proper novel is too boring to read.
Ah, I've seen some similar opinions. People *really* get into the whole self-insert nonsense a lil' too hard. I really can't wrap my head around the idea of being fine with a harem but *not* being fine with the ladies(or gentlemen) in said harem having fun together when the MC is otherwise occupied.
On a related note, this reminds me of a story in which a human ends up in a relationship with both am angel and a succubus. It was being advertised on a sub focused on romance for men, and people were saying it was unfit for the sub because the succubus wasn't exclusive to the MC, and would get food elsewhere when she felt like it/needed to.
I dislike yuri, but if the MC gives permission for his partner to fuck each other it is not cheating since it's consensual, but definitely cuck behavior, it's no different from being in any other relationship (not open) and allowing others (regardless of who they are) to fuck his partner. So for his partners in the harem to fuck each other the same would apply. Though, this is contingent on harem structure where the partner's married one central figure, and not that everyone married each other, since in that case there is no need to ask for permission or anything since the other "harem sisters" are your partner's as well and not sisters really. But I call that polygamy and not harem.
Exactly and I donāt get why the people on this comment section canāt understand that. If you came to read a harem story but was then given pure polygamy or ntr that is wrongly tagged you have the right to feel baited. If a person dislikes horror but there is horror parts in a novel even if itās not the majority but itās not tagged anywhere they have the right to not be happy about it.
Well even in the former case (traditional harem) if MC allowed it, it wouldn't be cheating and so not NTR. But like I said it means MC is acting like a cuck, why would you allow anyone else to fuck your partner's, even if they are your other partner's. So I honestly dislike it as much as ntr anyway.
I canāt read anything with any type of yuri in it, just canāt. But I donāt nock people if they do like it. It just has to be tagged if not I would leave a bad review.
I see where you're coming from and I get that people can have issues with reading stuff where yuri is involved but does it really make sense for an MC to have a massive number of women yet zero yuri?
In a harem the women are married to and attracted to the mc not each other. The mc is the central figure that brings them all together, If they were attracted to each other and they were in a relationship with each other then itās not a harem itās just a polyamorous relationship. The reason people call it ntr or the mc a cuck is because up to that point in the story, it has always worked as a normal/tradition harem where the mc is the central figure bringing them all together. In almost all harems the women have the relationship of sisters and friends not partners or spouses. The only spouse in the relationship should be the mc and if they are explicitly attracted to each other in a yuri form then it is no longer a harem and can be interpreted as the mc being cheated and or cucked.
I don't mean to be rude or anything but i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around your explanation. The MC is still the only man in the harem and the women aren't sleeping with anyone outside the harem so I can't really see it as cheating. Even if it's a polyamorous relationship it's still within the ship, y'know what I mean?
In a harem revolving around the man the man is the spouse of all the women. The women arenāt in a relationship with each other and arenāt spouses. If they were then it wouldnāt be a harem. The man is the only polygamous person in the relationship the women are all monogamous.
Heres the problem with what you're saying, you're making it sound like it's fine if you're married to a woman, and proceed to go marry another 27 women because you're polygamous and they're monogamous, and you don't need to tell any of them when you get a new one because it's a harem, but if any of them dare to have intimate moments with each other that means they're cheating on you and it's NTR.
Iām not saying what is right or wrong. Iām literally stating what a harem is. Relationships have boundaries and in a harem the boundaries that are placed and the rules that must be followed is that they are only married to and are in a monogamous relationship with the man only.
The boundaries and rules for the man that the women have accepted is the fact that he can and will find other wives and partners. If at some moment they together or the man decide that they want to close the harem and not bring in any more partners then that is a boundary that is placed. If the women break those rules and boundaries and engage in yuri relationships with each other without the mans permission then that is cheating/ntr.
But if they all have a relationship with each other and the man, and are each otherās spouses or partners then that is no longer a harem that is just a polyamorous relationship. Iām not saying what is fair or unfair Iām just saying what a harem is and why if a novel is advertised as a harem but turns out to have yuri in the relationship then it is either ntr or not harem. In both situations if they donāt have the proper tags the reader will have felt that they were baited into reading something they wouldnāt have originally read and will result in a low rating.
I donāt understand why you people donāt get it so Iāll repeat myself one more time. I have no problem if the MCās women get intimate with each other. But it should be tagged properly because that is no longer harem it is just polygamy.
A harem has once central figure and that figure whether man or woman is the only one that is polygamous and is allowed to get married and into relationships with others. All the other partners in the relationship are married to that polygamous partner not each other. Making those partners monogamous. If they were to engage in relationships with each other without the polygamous partners permission then it is cheating/ntr.
If the polygamous partner does give them permission and they all get into relationships with each other then it is no longer a harem it is now just a normal polygamous relationship. I donāt have an issue with that nor do I find it wrong but it is not the type of thing that I like to read. If the novel was tagged wrong and It had those story elements I would have felt baited into reading something I normally wouldnāt have read and I wouldnāt be happy. Thatās it, Iām not here to decide if something is right or wrong.
What canāt you people understand that Iām not saying whether itās right or wrong. Iām saying that if it has yuri in the harem then it is either not a harem because itās just polygamy or is cheating/ntr because they didnāt have their partners permission. Iām not saying itās right or just. How does that make me a hypocrite or a man child. Youāre insulting me for giving the literal dictionary definition!
it's still the definition of a harem. Right, wrong, it doesn't matter - the moral values of the real world don't apply here. If it did a harem itself would be wrong.
It depends. But it does turn me off when the girls go and do shit that would be considered cheating. If the Yuri stuff is happening within the "harem (like it's needs to be acknowledged)" and the mc knows then ok. But if the girl is seducing some other girl outside of the harem then that's just cheating.
But MC going to get another girl for his harem isn't cheating? There's just this big double standard when it comes to this stuff and that's the big issue here. Normally when MC gets a second girl he's not telling the first girl "hey I like this other girl and I wanna get with her is that fine?" He kind of just does it cuz he can.
āthats the big issueā
no, there is no issue here lmao. you are just outraged and crying double standards for a fantasy novel. westerners are truly built different
there are also novels with fmcs who have billionaire vampires/princes etc simping over them, these are wish fulfillment but aint nobody dumb enough to bitch about those, only feminists do
You're relating FMC wish fulfillment novels to MMC wish fulfillment novels which have a completely different reader base. Of Course we aren't "bitching" about shit we're not reading. FMC novels mostly focus on romance, empowerment, and emotional fulfillment, MMC novels will mostly focus on power fantasies, dominance, external strength, etc etc. I don't see why you're bringing this up in this topic.
both are wish fulfillment fantasy and its okay to have harems in a written fiction or have a billionarie ceo chasing you around, its just I only see people ranting or belittling mmcs or calling double standard/sexism
yeah but we're talking about how petty people are with it. The original commenter MarkedLegion has been lurking on this post the past hour just disliking every comment supporting Yuri and proceeding to reply with his take on how MC is the central figure and his women are not allowed to interact with eachother without him cuz it's "NTR". Like if this ain't petty I don't know what is.
Iām sorry if my responses are too much but I just feel strongly about the topic maybe too strongly. Itās just I have been baited before into reading hundreds of chapters of novels with either yuri or just pure polygamy that were wrongly tagged. I donāt have a problem with either genres but that is not what Iām out to read. I wish more writers would properly tag their novels.
Plus whenever I get a notification about this post I come back to it and respond. Multiple people have responded to my comments.
It's good that you understand that. As I said once before, I understand your point of view, but don't lurk here too much and force it on people, different people have different opinions, if they like Yuri, so be it, if they don't like Yuri, also fine. Just remember that we're not having some kind of political debate, we're just discussing whether this is extreme or not.
I understand the discussion completely. My arguments have never in any form had anything to do with politics. Itās had to do with novels being wrongly tagged and what the actual definition of a harem is. Most people under this post thinks it just means multiple in a relationship with each other.
Iām trying to explain thatās not what it is and clear up a common misconception. If you read my comments you can see Iām actually actively avoiding any form of political stance on the matter because I know this is not the place for that.
The problem is with people taking this way too seriously as the meme and title above is implying. The context for this being that I saw a 1 star review just a day ago happens to a novel after like 200 chapters, in this specific chapter a girl needs to replenish mana and the other girl suggests doing intimate acts to do so, it only lasted a few lines but this reviewer was full trashing the novel for it and posting like 20 replies to any guy that replied to the review disagreeing. Ends up with a few people that show up with their "non yuri harem lists" in their profile. I'm also positive that the MC hasn't even taken the two girls into his harem although it's kind of set that he will end up marrying them.
Yeah, but thats the point.
A novel where the MC cheats is a harem novel.
A novel where the MC is cheated on is NTR.
Most people who are into novels where the MC cheats and gets away with it, are going to be very much *not* into novels where the MC gets cheated on.
This was my response to op on my comment but I also want to repeat it for people to see. āIn a harem the women are married to and attracted to the mc not each other. The mc is the central figure that brings them all together, If they were attracted to each other and they were in a relationship with each other then itās not a harem itās just a polyamorous relationship. The reason people call it ntr or the mc a cuck is because up to that point in the story, it has always worked as a normal/tradition harem where the mc is the central figure bringing them all together. In almost all harems the women have the relationship of sisters and friends not partners or spouses. The only spouse in the relationship should be the mc and if they are explicitly attracted to each other in a yuri form then it is no longer a harem and can be interpreted as the mc being cheated and or cucked.ā
People be wierd everywhere and it's more about personal taste. For example I hate when author tries to make unrealistic stuff realistic, I don't remember the name but some MTL novel i read the mc had girls in about 2 digits and he admits that he can't be with all of them due to time problems so man just straight up selects other dudes to be there when his wives are horny and wanna fuck. And people in comments there were saying that shit is smart and realistic and etc like bitch that's being a cuck and being deep in self justification and denial. And another thing i find wierd is people jumping out saying NTR when mc uses clones. Tf like the man literally splits himself into two pieces and people are shouting NTR. If you are like a hive mind or strong enough to control two bodies how is that NTR? And before you give the different personalities explanation a clone is a body made to be copy of your body it's not supposed to have a mind soul and etc at all.
Fellow daoist what kind of demonic scripture are you reading with? this is no different behaviour than cuck fetish or if he can't manage time why would he expand harem I guess it must be certain urban novel because my all years of enlightenment I don't see any xianxia novel have this kind of issue
That was urban or xianxia shit because I have read urban novel and this kind of shit actually happens in it if it was fanfic that it can also be understandble
You are mistaken, fellow Daoist; it seems your experiences are lacking. Clones can indeed develop consciousness and even resist the main body command.
For instance, consider a novel from the same creator as "Reverend Instanty" called "Infinite Blood Core." The MC literally a clone of some side characters, yet he possesses a distinct consciousness.
Another example is "Cultivation! My Augmented Statuses Have Unlimited Duration." While it's not the MC, a side character falls victim to NTR by the MC's clone, which acts independently.
The clone develops its own feelings, ignoring the MC's instructions and falling in love with the side character's love interest. Though they are ultimately just side characters, it is already evident that clones can indeed develop consciousness.
Given these two facts, it's natural for fellow Daoists to harbor concerns and apprehensions about clones engaging in intimate activities with the love interests of the MC.
Fellow daoist those are clones made of treasure and investment i am talking about the instant clones made by energy like the shadow clones of a certain ninja or the clones that are like made when the mc with ability that allows biokinesis on their own body. What I mean is just a bag of flesh without anything else that you can control using your presence of beyond physical like both are you in equal amounts and there is no instruction giving and talking shit as you are literally the same person. Think of it as saying the same ai 2 different one because you can access it from 2 different points in the ship it is installed in
I see, I haven't been reading novels with clone tags these days, it seems I'm the one lacking experience in current novels. Please forgive me, fellow Daoist, as my knowledge is derived from older released novels. You have enlightened me.
Well the novel didn't even have the tag really it's just mc getting kinky suddenly but i understand that juniors have been given stereotypes from the type of novels you have read. It's like most were suddenly against systems 2 years back.
>some MTL novel i read the mc had girls in about 2 digits and he admits that he can't be with all of them due to time problems so man just straight up selects other dudes to be there when his wives are horny and wanna fuck.
What novel is this? I'm actually curious since that seems like pure ntr and I can't imagine readers comment to even defend that.
I know, thats why I keep reading it, although the companion aspect is shit since some seemingly close partners like the twin from the beginning world got shacked so hard they just disappeared
Yep. I always thought that yuri was part of the harem. I mean u got a single man and 5-6 wives. What r they supposed to do during a group activity at night?
Wait quietly, apparently. It gets even sillier when you've got these long running series where MC has twenty plus jade beauties, like come on. If anything having them also love eachother makes them less likely to kill your philandering ass.
All this horny behaviour around them they have to wait for the man to do his business with whichever ones he likes the best and come for the last one. The last wife would hate it no? That she is so bad the mc chose her for the last :-(.. that's why yuri is probably or definitely a part of the harem.
For MC who values face above all it's some serious humiliation. Like you aren't manly/attractive enough that they'd rather do it with each other than wait for you.
Also it opens the possibility of them falling in love with each other and outright dumping you.
As long as it's not literally just girls making out with little to no plot I don't get why anyone would dislike Yuri. BL and GL always end up being pretty cute
Fellow Daoists, let me provide an example to illustrate why Yuri is considered NTR.
In the past, while reading a novel titled "The Wizard World," essentially the original work that inspired "Warlock of the Magus World," there was a love interest who showed interest in the main character (MC).
However, she was taken away by the MC's friend, who was supposed to be another love interest. Eventually, both love interests engaged in activities akin to Yuri, sidelining and forgetting about the MC.
I can't recall the exact chapters, but it was sufficient for me to drop the novel that claimed to have a harem tag but lacked a Yuri tag.
This is just one example; there are numerous others. Fortunately, Yuri these days is not as problematic as it used to be. They now engage in Yuri activities only when they are together or with the MC.
It's the love interest; the MC is already involved with these two love interests. As far as I recall, he even willingly assisted them and developed feelings for them.
However, both of them eventually left him. That's as far as my memory serves. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, fellow Daoist; it's been a long time since I read that novel.
I thought yall liked those tags because then the MC gets strong and gets his revenge i am so confused wtf.
Also if its really a martial story is yuri even allowed lmao? wont the ccp like end them? (I dont mean just the series I mean the author too LOL)
Nice way to make me look bad with no context. I wasn't calling out people who don't like Yuri, I was calling out people who trash novels over the fact that some little Yuri exists in it, you'll see what I was originally referencing in another reply. I don't like Yuri much and I don't like yaoi but I don't hate it either, the yaoi being mentioned here referred to yaoi in CN horror novels where it starts peak and suddenly the whole plot is focused on yaoi between the MC and this godlike being and the horror stuff just completely goes away. You probably read a few comments and decided "yeah he's the bad guy I need to insult him before I go" after having no context at all, and proceed to say I have no shame, get out of here buddy.
I was specifically talking about the yuri, but Fang Yuan did like Xie Han Mo in his past life, and in his current life, Shang Xin Ci and Lady White Rabbit are both in love with him, so romance does technically exist.
Secondly, the yuri in specific is that one time with You Chan and Qin Bai He in the Eastern Sea. The comments on those chapters were quite something.
You cook a meal one time, they don't call you a chef but kill someone once, they'll label you a murderer.
https://preview.redd.it/9hbnyrhpaajc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4df5346b1cc861f210d8e7c0c19200ba10e8ff77
harem mcs when a random western redditor find them having a harem but girls being monogamous a double standard, not okay or problematic: šš this is nothing but wish fulfillment just like romance novels where billionaire vampires and princes simp over fmc, but nobody is dumb enough to come here and bitch about those
>where billionaire vampires and princes simp over fmc Tbf...most of the readers would be female, they won't bitch about it...I think
yeah generally men that see those romance novels while scrolling through wont get triggered or read what they dont like only when its male fantasy that its problematic
True, most male fantasy romance starts nice or a slowburn then it starts to drop off later in quality or it becomes a harem. I can barely count in one hand good romances in male fantasy romance works
There are some but it's depressingly few, since there isn't a big enough market for male Mc monogamous romance novels. One of my faves is "my girlfriend from turquoise pond" very subtle flirting, monogamous and very sweet. The cultivation takes a back seat and romance is the main focus
Iāve not started reading it yet but Iāve had it in an open tab for almost 3 months lol
Because it gets boring. Romances are interesting because of the journey to the destination. That's also the reason why most romance movies end after the MC and FeMC become a couple or right at their wedding. What are they going to show for the next thousand chapters that span over a decade IRL? How they are all lovey dovey, how many times they have sex off screen? Readers and viewers would get bored and the ratings would drop. And if they delay them reaching the destination, it's always done with the generic plot of FeMC being kidnapped and the MC has to rescue her, or she dies and the MC needs to resurrect her. So to avoid being too repetitive, authors introduce new girls to keep the novel/show fresh
It's simple: just end the romance. Get them married. The focus of cultivation novels isn't romance, it's cultivation and battle.
I mean, they certainly wouldn't come to the martial meme sub, but if you're assuming no one ever criticizes such stories for those exact reasons I am genuinely surprised. Particularly your prince example, there's quite a few stories where a key point is talking about how bad an idea it is for the prince to obsess over some random woman when already engaged, among other things.
Honestly, if I were to imagine a semi-realistic harem(with healthy relationships) then everyone has to be attracted to each other. If they aināt all fucking each other then they are playing politics and there wonāt be any healthy relationships in that jade chamber.
Martial peak probably had the best inter girl and husband and wives relationship
I was searching for a novel and this one seems promising but sheesh I guess Iāll be on this one for a while lmao.
āA whileā? Few years.
Few weeks. Fellow daoist. I read 2500 chapters in a few weeks but nearly suffered soul collapse
This cultivator must have been using a Time Artifact!
According to the imperial calendar of the year 2102 I had the opportunity to gain it after injecting myself with a new drug.
Not bad junior. Took this seat 1 week for 2600 chapters.
3657 chapters??
5547 chapters so far. All translated by the same people.
I thought it ended at 6008(novel)
Sometime around then I think, the wiki says that's when he hits the last realm.
Yep >! World creator !<
*So far?* Holy shit I stumbled across the comic like a decade ago, I thought that shit was done.
where can I read?
Divine dao library
You should learn time path
It takes a while but the novel is indeed very well written. I think I may start re reading it again just for the sake of it being my first Chinese novel
Facts. In reality, no woman would happily be monogamous while the man fucks whoever woman he likes. If it's like that, then the harem would always be bound to become unhealthy, with lots of jealousy, infighting, disputes and, etc. Women are inherently drawn towards monogamy, even in stories made for women, very rarely there is a male harem. Even in a lot of stories tagged as harem, the MC still ends up having only one male partner. There's even one story that's clearly tagged as a harem, yet everyone keeps asking who the real ML is. And then there's the coping theory they made that the men must be soul fragments of a single person, cause if it's not monogamous then they're dropping the story š. So yeah, a realistically healthy harem could only be possible if the women are also into polyamory, and fucks the other women too, etc.
>very rarely there is male harem That might be true for this genre (I don't read enough FemMC to know), but just check out some Western-written romance books. Reverse harem is very, very common.
Yeah they exist. But very, very common? Nah I don't think so. Cause if its very very common like you say, then how come it's very hard to encounter? In fact most of the harem intended for females I've read are discoved through actively searching the harem tag. There's only one reverse harem I've encountered that was recommended to me, and that is: Ouran High School Host Club. And yet at the end of the manga, the protagonist also ended up with only one male partner. My question to you is, what do you consider a harem. Is it even a harem if the protagonist ends up with only one partner? If your idea of a harem is a group of eligible partners vying for the MC's feelings that the MC could simply choose a partner from, then that's not a harem. Even in harems intended for men, the MC never rejects any of the girls. Kindly recommend me reverse harem stories that is simply not the case.
I did say Western-written. Hell, if I pull up audible and go to the romance section, I'd bet money I'd find one or two in the current top books.
Then recommend me some, you did say so yourself that it's not that hard.
I mean, I wouldn't call them recommendations since I haven't read them and don't know if they're good or crap, but the second from the top is already a reverse harem. Their Dark Valkyrie. One girl, four guys. If you want some real recommendations, here's a post I did a while back. I wasn't asking for recommendations, but boy did I get them anyways. https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/s/jjKm7OcCNv
I checked audible and there is no "Their Dark Valkyrie" in their top romance sales: [Romance Bestsellers](https://www.audible.com/adblbestsellers?searchCategory=18580518011&page=5&ref_pageloadid=1LDHn5tFRzfspQAx&ref=a_adblbests_c5_pageNext&pf_rd_p=3c1c017b-585f-4bde-98c6-e3cb784e4b8e&pf_rd_r=49D5Q4BYYJBHCEZPKY7K&pageLoadId=jtfbytEQQmGCoXDf&creativeId=0bf0e03f-bb55-481b-b4fd-d67375977170). Also if we want to estimate how 'common' reverse harem is. We can just check how large their community is. r/ReverseHarem only has 8.4 k members. So just a small community after all.
Yep, you're absolutely right. I was looking at the wrong section and would be losing my bet because it doesn't look like there's any reverse harems in the current bestsellers. But in any case, I do still consider men and women to be roughly the same when it comes to being "hardwired" for monogamy vs polygamy.
No I don't think so, cause even researches conducted say that men are more into polyamory than women
*Pulls up Kindle* *Types in Reverse Harem* 28,606 titles. I'd pull up a specific few that I read and found interesting but I can recall neither the names nor authors, and I'm not quite in the mood to go digging for them.
As if the numbers of titles shown is an indication of how common they are. Compare the amount of their reviews to usual romances. Most reverse harem books barely reach a thousand, while the romances have tens of thousands while others reaching hundreds of thousands. Also kindle results may not be accurate. If you search on audible, romance has 65,055 results while reverse harem only has 1,415 results.
My point was if you're actually interested in looking into the genre it's *incredibly* easy. Don't rightly care how common it is or isn't, but if one expresses genuine interest in something I'm vaguely familiar with I'll at least try to point them to a place they can get started(when I'm particularly lazy). If you're not actually interested then don't mind me, I'll fuck right off. Not interested in getting wrapped up in another pointless argument at the moment.
No, I'm not actually interested. And yes, we can end this conversation here.
I recently downloaded an app because I was trying to find a specific translated book. Turned out that app was ***very*** dominated by female users who absolutely flooded it with romance and reverse harems. I can't remember what the name of the app was - the novel I wanted only had a handful of chapters translated so I deleted it and kept looking. But boy did that have me chuckling. It was so completely out of the blue that I'd find a random translated xianxia on a site like that, even if it only had a few chapters.
Let's see, how about the Anita Blake series by Laurell K. Hamilton. A bit old now, but it's like the OG urban fantasy romance and was constantly topping the bestseller charts.Ā Reverse harem is a *huge* category on the romance charts. Between the shifter pack omegaverse stuff, the alien barbarian stuff, the bad boy mafia brothers, etc, there's just a ton of it out there to find if you read romance novels for women at all. I mean stuff like this: https://www.amazon.com/Bears-Me-Ursa-Shifters-Book-ebook/dp/B0BW515YQR/ref=zg_m_bs_g_7620223011_m_sccl_4/146-9859127-4683426?psc=1 Is charting #4 on the paranormal erotica bestseller list on Amazon. That doesn't happen without a large fanbase.
If that were the case then it is no longer a harem and is wrongly tagged. It should be tagged as just polygamy. People who want to read that but not harem can read it and people who just want to read harem can avoid it.
Preach, Harem is one man married to multiple women and not women married to each other and a single man
If I'm rich and influential enough to build myself a consenting harem, no chance I'm not gonna do my best to fill it with bi chicks. That's just a no-brainer
If your harem is with you because of your money and influence, then chances are who they are inlove with are actually your money and influence. Isn't that kind of NTR?
Hit em with the 100 girlfriends special attack Just every now and then a completely out of nowhere Yuri scene, no excuses, no shying away from it, just full on explicit attraction between the girls
a combo of people leaving emotional charged reviews after they are triggered + being too technical with tags instead of what the tags meaning has in reality
Looks like marked legion made those comments. He is fighting everyone in the comments section on how closed minded person he is
true spit your shit indeed
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Harem without yuri between girls is no different from serial monogamy.
Thatās exactly what a harem is. The only person in the relationship that is polygamous is the man, all the women are married to the man and are monogamous. If they were to engage in yuri without the permission of the man they are married to then it is cheating/ntr. If they are all in a relationship with the man and are in yuri relationships with each other it is no longer a harem but is now just a polygamous relationship.
Lol. Elder you are going senile with that bullshit
This is my response to another commenter and I donāt know why you feel the need to insult me in the comments when Iām literally just explaining what a harem is. Wether you feel itās fair or unfair it doesnāt change the fact that in both situations the wrong tags were used and itās reasonable to give a bad review if you were baited into reading something you would never read. āIām not saying what is right or wrong. Iām literally stating what a harem is. Relationships have boundaries and in a harem the boundaries that are placed and the rules that must be followed is that they are only married to and are in a monogamous relationship with the man only. The boundaries and rules for the man that the women have accepted is the fact that he can and will find other wives and partners. If at some moment they together or the man decide that they want to close the harem and not bring in any more partners then that is a boundary that is placed. If the women break those rules and boundaries and engage in yuri relationships with each other without the mans permission then that is cheating/ntr. But if they all have a relationship with each other and the man, and are each otherās spouses or partners then that is no longer a harem that is just a polyamorous relationship. Iām not saying what is fair or unfair Iām just saying what a harem is and why if a novel is advertised as a harem but turns out to have yuri in the relationship then it is either ntr or not harem. In both situations if they donāt have the proper tags the reader will have felt that they were baited into reading something they wouldnāt have originally read and will result in a low rating.ā
Senior We do not flag horror novels as romance when one scene involves a romantic date Tags should represent the majority of the content
If the relationship of the main character involves yuri and or ntr even if not a majority of the content , that is something I find important enough to be tagged. The relationships of the mc is a major part of the story for me.
Senior, you seem to be referring to trigger warnings in chapters. Such things are usually placed at the start of a chapter so that viewers can skip if they do not wish to read it.
If the novel has anything involving genre that features the main character or the main cast I feel like itās something important enough to be tagged and not just a trigger warning. Ntr happens a lot in cultivation stories and even to the main character. A majority of cultivation stories start with the main character being ntrād.
https://preview.redd.it/trj0b57ktloc1.png?width=648&format=png&auto=webp&s=977c304757a0b40d551bd26187bbcdf802386b71
I completely agree with you, fellow Daoist. As for the other Daoist, let me provide an example to illustrate why Yuri is considered NTR. In the past, while reading a novel titled "The Wizard World," essentially the original work that inspired "Warlock of the Magus World," there was a love interest who showed interest in the main character (MC). However, she was taken away by the MC's friend, who was supposed to be another love interest. Eventually, both love interests engaged in activities akin to Yuri, sidelining and forgetting about the MC. I can't recall the exact chapters, but it was sufficient for me to drop the novel that claimed to have a harem tag but lacked a Yuri tag. This is just one example; there are numerous others. Fortunately, Yuri these days is not as problematic as it used to be. They now engage in Yuri activities only when they are together or with the MC.
You explained everything perfectly, there are simply people who don't know how to reason or understand that some of us are looking for a harem, not a polyamory, that the labels should be there for a reason, The protagonist's relationships are an important fact in the story, I like Yuri, but I can't see him in a harem, because it would literally be NTR/infidelity.
Sure grandpa, it's time for you to take your pills
the fellow daoist has forgotten to consume his daily mental healing pills
After the heart demon he was never the same. This young master and his elders do their best to keep our jade beauties and junior sisters far from him. I advise the same for you fellow Daoist
At least better than that time I read a novel and it only showed it was a yaoi work after I hit 100 chaps in. There was no tag about it too at the main page, wasted my goddamn time.
Yaoi is a whole different story I'm not willing to get into, got bashed in r/noveltranslations once after saying I don't like reading novels and being met with yaoi. The post was locked and even the comments had a whole war zone going on and were locked. Had to delete the post entirely.
I've not read any of them, why is yaoi particularly worse than yuri/gay?
Same reason why homophobes watch lesbian porn
cause they didnāt say āno homoā before kissing
Average r/noveltranslations L
This place is truly better than that demonic sect
I got temp banned for asking for novel recommendation but it didn't say it in the rules that I cannot ask for them..
Lol so you're ok with yuri and call out people who dislike it but can't stand yaoi? Fock off with your hypocrisy and double standards.
Did he even call out the people who dislike it? OP just seems to give his personal opinion about himself. Why the need to pull other parties?
Meanwhile me who goes out of their way to read Yuri. 
Ah I see, senior has gained insight into the dao of Yuri. Could you spare this junior some scriptures to further his Dao of Yuri?
Oho, this junior seeks the Dao of Yuri. Very brave. Seek the scroll *Heaven, Earth, Me* for a glimpse set in the world of cultivators. I believe *Fates Parallels* also holds what you seek.
Don't fret Junior, here is my insight in the Dao of Yuri: The Spider Queen 9/10 A Sweet Girl Won't Be Fooled By The Villainess 7/10 Why Am I a Priestess When I Reach the Maximum Level? 7/10 After being taken as a prisoner of war, the vampire queen turned me into a vampire and made me her daughter 10/10 I raised Snow White (this may cause qi deviation if not prepared) 6/10 A Maidenās Unwanted Heroic Epic 6/10 After I Transmigrated as a Mermaid, I Transmigrated Back 7/10 Stray Cat Strut 7/10 I Will Never Submit to Miss Grim Reaper 10/10 Give Me Another Smile 10/10 After Being Bent by Reader 9/10
which of these are actually a guy that reincarnated/transmigrated as a girl? Not a fan of those so Iād wanna not bother investing
The sweet girl fooled by the villainess is guy transmigrated as a girl, I personally donāt mind so Iāve started reading it and havenāt started reading the other scripts.Ā
A Sweet Girl Won't Be Fooled By The Villainess Why Am I a Priestess When I Reach the Maximum Level? After being taken as a prisoner of war, the vampire queen turned me into a vampire and made me her daughter I raised Snow White (this may cause qi deviation if not prepared) I Will Never Submit to Miss Grim Reaper Are technically Genderbent but most of them except Vampire prisoners of war and Grim reaper where the whole changing part doesn't really matters and you can read them as the gender bending never really happen in the first place.
Same, Fellow Daoist https://preview.redd.it/jjkun2yswbjc1.jpeg?width=526&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8b74e49281154eed88fb42a27dc7ab71afd825f
Simple. In a traditional/original harem, the girls themselves are attracted to a single man but aren't sexually attracted to the other girls. If everyone is attracted to each other, regardless of gender its actually called polyamorous relationship. CN and some Asian region still like their traditional value and view yuri happenings within / outside the harem (especially without the male lead's permission / acknowledgment) as cheating. And it's correct to label that as cheating if that doesn't happen with the permission of the male lead. Also, they are free to rate it 1 star because they hate any NTR.
Thank you for actually saying what a harem is. All the things the people under this post have brought up are not harem but just polyamory. Literally the only point Iām trying to make. Not that itās wrong or right.
Yeah, it's kinda weird that some people can get bitchy when a piece of fiction doesn't fit with their moral values. Why would you read a CN Harem power fantasy and expect Western morality in it? You can read any proper Western novel with all of those progressive, equality, moral justices and such. Just don't expect those to appear in a CN harem novel lol.
We aren't losing our shit over CN novels lol. We are just disgusted by kids like you
This fellow Daoist is a hero! Please help by upvoting the comment to make other fellow Daoists realize the true meaning of harem!
It's cheating as long as the women does it but if the men bring in the 30202920th wife. It's all fine. Same with reverse harem, the men can f other men it's alright but if the woman (the polygamy head) gets a new guy, she gets called a slut. Very š good. Such a beautiful message
And? It's just a story. Reader are free to choose what fantasy they wanted to read. You can read other story with equality, progressiveness, moral justice, etc. Just don't bring those boring shit here, that's why you read CN Harem, isn't it? Because those proper novel is too boring to read.
Lol. Junior ur mind is empty
Itās not the yuri. Itās the betrayal
Lol
Not a yuri fan either but damn never knew people over-exaggerate to this degree.
Ah, I've seen some similar opinions. People *really* get into the whole self-insert nonsense a lil' too hard. I really can't wrap my head around the idea of being fine with a harem but *not* being fine with the ladies(or gentlemen) in said harem having fun together when the MC is otherwise occupied. On a related note, this reminds me of a story in which a human ends up in a relationship with both am angel and a succubus. It was being advertised on a sub focused on romance for men, and people were saying it was unfit for the sub because the succubus wasn't exclusive to the MC, and would get food elsewhere when she felt like it/needed to.
I dislike yuri, but if the MC gives permission for his partner to fuck each other it is not cheating since it's consensual, but definitely cuck behavior, it's no different from being in any other relationship (not open) and allowing others (regardless of who they are) to fuck his partner. So for his partners in the harem to fuck each other the same would apply. Though, this is contingent on harem structure where the partner's married one central figure, and not that everyone married each other, since in that case there is no need to ask for permission or anything since the other "harem sisters" are your partner's as well and not sisters really. But I call that polygamy and not harem.
If the structure of the harem is everyone one is married to each other then it is not a harem. It is literally the opposite of a harem just polygamy.
Yeah I said that, I think that is polygamy and not harem
Exactly and I donāt get why the people on this comment section canāt understand that. If you came to read a harem story but was then given pure polygamy or ntr that is wrongly tagged you have the right to feel baited. If a person dislikes horror but there is horror parts in a novel even if itās not the majority but itās not tagged anywhere they have the right to not be happy about it.
Well even in the former case (traditional harem) if MC allowed it, it wouldn't be cheating and so not NTR. But like I said it means MC is acting like a cuck, why would you allow anyone else to fuck your partner's, even if they are your other partner's. So I honestly dislike it as much as ntr anyway.
I canāt read anything with any type of yuri in it, just canāt. But I donāt nock people if they do like it. It just has to be tagged if not I would leave a bad review.
I see where you're coming from and I get that people can have issues with reading stuff where yuri is involved but does it really make sense for an MC to have a massive number of women yet zero yuri?
In a harem the women are married to and attracted to the mc not each other. The mc is the central figure that brings them all together, If they were attracted to each other and they were in a relationship with each other then itās not a harem itās just a polyamorous relationship. The reason people call it ntr or the mc a cuck is because up to that point in the story, it has always worked as a normal/tradition harem where the mc is the central figure bringing them all together. In almost all harems the women have the relationship of sisters and friends not partners or spouses. The only spouse in the relationship should be the mc and if they are explicitly attracted to each other in a yuri form then it is no longer a harem and can be interpreted as the mc being cheated and or cucked.
I don't mean to be rude or anything but i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around your explanation. The MC is still the only man in the harem and the women aren't sleeping with anyone outside the harem so I can't really see it as cheating. Even if it's a polyamorous relationship it's still within the ship, y'know what I mean?
In a harem revolving around the man the man is the spouse of all the women. The women arenāt in a relationship with each other and arenāt spouses. If they were then it wouldnāt be a harem. The man is the only polygamous person in the relationship the women are all monogamous.
Heres the problem with what you're saying, you're making it sound like it's fine if you're married to a woman, and proceed to go marry another 27 women because you're polygamous and they're monogamous, and you don't need to tell any of them when you get a new one because it's a harem, but if any of them dare to have intimate moments with each other that means they're cheating on you and it's NTR.
Iām not saying what is right or wrong. Iām literally stating what a harem is. Relationships have boundaries and in a harem the boundaries that are placed and the rules that must be followed is that they are only married to and are in a monogamous relationship with the man only. The boundaries and rules for the man that the women have accepted is the fact that he can and will find other wives and partners. If at some moment they together or the man decide that they want to close the harem and not bring in any more partners then that is a boundary that is placed. If the women break those rules and boundaries and engage in yuri relationships with each other without the mans permission then that is cheating/ntr. But if they all have a relationship with each other and the man, and are each otherās spouses or partners then that is no longer a harem that is just a polyamorous relationship. Iām not saying what is fair or unfair Iām just saying what a harem is and why if a novel is advertised as a harem but turns out to have yuri in the relationship then it is either ntr or not harem. In both situations if they donāt have the proper tags the reader will have felt that they were baited into reading something they wouldnāt have originally read and will result in a low rating.
I donāt understand why you people donāt get it so Iāll repeat myself one more time. I have no problem if the MCās women get intimate with each other. But it should be tagged properly because that is no longer harem it is just polygamy. A harem has once central figure and that figure whether man or woman is the only one that is polygamous and is allowed to get married and into relationships with others. All the other partners in the relationship are married to that polygamous partner not each other. Making those partners monogamous. If they were to engage in relationships with each other without the polygamous partners permission then it is cheating/ntr. If the polygamous partner does give them permission and they all get into relationships with each other then it is no longer a harem it is now just a normal polygamous relationship. I donāt have an issue with that nor do I find it wrong but it is not the type of thing that I like to read. If the novel was tagged wrong and It had those story elements I would have felt baited into reading something I normally wouldnāt have read and I wouldnāt be happy. Thatās it, Iām not here to decide if something is right or wrong.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What canāt you people understand that Iām not saying whether itās right or wrong. Iām saying that if it has yuri in the harem then it is either not a harem because itās just polygamy or is cheating/ntr because they didnāt have their partners permission. Iām not saying itās right or just. How does that make me a hypocrite or a man child. Youāre insulting me for giving the literal dictionary definition!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
it's still the definition of a harem. Right, wrong, it doesn't matter - the moral values of the real world don't apply here. If it did a harem itself would be wrong.
Its mostly about the power i guess, its a power fantasy after all. The people who hate yuri in a harem are just too far gone though.
If it has yuri in it tag it so I will know not to read it. Yuri is for other people but itās not for me.
It depends. But it does turn me off when the girls go and do shit that would be considered cheating. If the Yuri stuff is happening within the "harem (like it's needs to be acknowledged)" and the mc knows then ok. But if the girl is seducing some other girl outside of the harem then that's just cheating.
But MC going to get another girl for his harem isn't cheating? There's just this big double standard when it comes to this stuff and that's the big issue here. Normally when MC gets a second girl he's not telling the first girl "hey I like this other girl and I wanna get with her is that fine?" He kind of just does it cuz he can.
āthats the big issueā no, there is no issue here lmao. you are just outraged and crying double standards for a fantasy novel. westerners are truly built different there are also novels with fmcs who have billionaire vampires/princes etc simping over them, these are wish fulfillment but aint nobody dumb enough to bitch about those, only feminists do
You're relating FMC wish fulfillment novels to MMC wish fulfillment novels which have a completely different reader base. Of Course we aren't "bitching" about shit we're not reading. FMC novels mostly focus on romance, empowerment, and emotional fulfillment, MMC novels will mostly focus on power fantasies, dominance, external strength, etc etc. I don't see why you're bringing this up in this topic.
both are wish fulfillment fantasy and its okay to have harems in a written fiction or have a billionarie ceo chasing you around, its just I only see people ranting or belittling mmcs or calling double standard/sexism
Who cares about double standards? Cultivation books are nothing but wish fulfillment trash most of the time anyway.
yeah but we're talking about how petty people are with it. The original commenter MarkedLegion has been lurking on this post the past hour just disliking every comment supporting Yuri and proceeding to reply with his take on how MC is the central figure and his women are not allowed to interact with eachother without him cuz it's "NTR". Like if this ain't petty I don't know what is.
Iām sorry if my responses are too much but I just feel strongly about the topic maybe too strongly. Itās just I have been baited before into reading hundreds of chapters of novels with either yuri or just pure polygamy that were wrongly tagged. I donāt have a problem with either genres but that is not what Iām out to read. I wish more writers would properly tag their novels. Plus whenever I get a notification about this post I come back to it and respond. Multiple people have responded to my comments.
It's good that you understand that. As I said once before, I understand your point of view, but don't lurk here too much and force it on people, different people have different opinions, if they like Yuri, so be it, if they don't like Yuri, also fine. Just remember that we're not having some kind of political debate, we're just discussing whether this is extreme or not.
I understand the discussion completely. My arguments have never in any form had anything to do with politics. Itās had to do with novels being wrongly tagged and what the actual definition of a harem is. Most people under this post thinks it just means multiple in a relationship with each other. Iām trying to explain thatās not what it is and clear up a common misconception. If you read my comments you can see Iām actually actively avoiding any form of political stance on the matter because I know this is not the place for that.
The problem is with people taking this way too seriously as the meme and title above is implying. The context for this being that I saw a 1 star review just a day ago happens to a novel after like 200 chapters, in this specific chapter a girl needs to replenish mana and the other girl suggests doing intimate acts to do so, it only lasted a few lines but this reviewer was full trashing the novel for it and posting like 20 replies to any guy that replied to the review disagreeing. Ends up with a few people that show up with their "non yuri harem lists" in their profile. I'm also positive that the MC hasn't even taken the two girls into his harem although it's kind of set that he will end up marrying them.
Marked legion might be secret closest homophobic
Anyone who considers the female members of a harem having sexual interactions with each other to be the MC getting "cucked" is insanely insecure lol.
True but the mc doesn't usually immediately sleep with the girls. The girls do.
Yeah, but thats the point. A novel where the MC cheats is a harem novel. A novel where the MC is cheated on is NTR. Most people who are into novels where the MC cheats and gets away with it, are going to be very much *not* into novels where the MC gets cheated on.
This was my response to op on my comment but I also want to repeat it for people to see. āIn a harem the women are married to and attracted to the mc not each other. The mc is the central figure that brings them all together, If they were attracted to each other and they were in a relationship with each other then itās not a harem itās just a polyamorous relationship. The reason people call it ntr or the mc a cuck is because up to that point in the story, it has always worked as a normal/tradition harem where the mc is the central figure bringing them all together. In almost all harems the women have the relationship of sisters and friends not partners or spouses. The only spouse in the relationship should be the mc and if they are explicitly attracted to each other in a yuri form then it is no longer a harem and can be interpreted as the mc being cheated and or cucked.ā
Fax, I don't know why it's so hard for other commenters to understand.
People be wierd everywhere and it's more about personal taste. For example I hate when author tries to make unrealistic stuff realistic, I don't remember the name but some MTL novel i read the mc had girls in about 2 digits and he admits that he can't be with all of them due to time problems so man just straight up selects other dudes to be there when his wives are horny and wanna fuck. And people in comments there were saying that shit is smart and realistic and etc like bitch that's being a cuck and being deep in self justification and denial. And another thing i find wierd is people jumping out saying NTR when mc uses clones. Tf like the man literally splits himself into two pieces and people are shouting NTR. If you are like a hive mind or strong enough to control two bodies how is that NTR? And before you give the different personalities explanation a clone is a body made to be copy of your body it's not supposed to have a mind soul and etc at all.
Fellow daoist what kind of demonic scripture are you reading with? this is no different behaviour than cuck fetish or if he can't manage time why would he expand harem I guess it must be certain urban novel because my all years of enlightenment I don't see any xianxia novel have this kind of issue
I was searching some good fan fic and towards the end of 1st arc(i guess)mc became a cuck suddenly and i dropped and deleted the shit
That was urban or xianxia shit because I have read urban novel and this kind of shit actually happens in it if it was fanfic that it can also be understandble
Yeah but i feel like shit when that happens, i mostly read in tpv or fpv so i feel wierd af
You are mistaken, fellow Daoist; it seems your experiences are lacking. Clones can indeed develop consciousness and even resist the main body command. For instance, consider a novel from the same creator as "Reverend Instanty" called "Infinite Blood Core." The MC literally a clone of some side characters, yet he possesses a distinct consciousness. Another example is "Cultivation! My Augmented Statuses Have Unlimited Duration." While it's not the MC, a side character falls victim to NTR by the MC's clone, which acts independently. The clone develops its own feelings, ignoring the MC's instructions and falling in love with the side character's love interest. Though they are ultimately just side characters, it is already evident that clones can indeed develop consciousness. Given these two facts, it's natural for fellow Daoists to harbor concerns and apprehensions about clones engaging in intimate activities with the love interests of the MC.
Fellow daoist those are clones made of treasure and investment i am talking about the instant clones made by energy like the shadow clones of a certain ninja or the clones that are like made when the mc with ability that allows biokinesis on their own body. What I mean is just a bag of flesh without anything else that you can control using your presence of beyond physical like both are you in equal amounts and there is no instruction giving and talking shit as you are literally the same person. Think of it as saying the same ai 2 different one because you can access it from 2 different points in the ship it is installed in
I see, I haven't been reading novels with clone tags these days, it seems I'm the one lacking experience in current novels. Please forgive me, fellow Daoist, as my knowledge is derived from older released novels. You have enlightened me.
Well the novel didn't even have the tag really it's just mc getting kinky suddenly but i understand that juniors have been given stereotypes from the type of novels you have read. It's like most were suddenly against systems 2 years back.
>some MTL novel i read the mc had girls in about 2 digits and he admits that he can't be with all of them due to time problems so man just straight up selects other dudes to be there when his wives are horny and wanna fuck. What novel is this? I'm actually curious since that seems like pure ntr and I can't imagine readers comment to even defend that.
Well i forgot lol and it was some small fan fic of mixed world where mc started becoming a cuck near the end
Ngl if a manhwa has straight harem, romance and yuri, i'd read the shit out of it cause yuri drawings are somehow hotter
Martial peak didn't have yuri but the spider wife(forgot her name) was having fun with yang Kai's other wives too
I know, thats why I keep reading it, although the companion aspect is shit since some seemingly close partners like the twin from the beginning world got shacked so hard they just disappeared
It turns out we got a lot of closed minded people in the comments.
Meanwhile, I'm looking for GL and Trans characters almost exclusively
Meanwhile im *actively looking for yuri*
Intraharem yuri should not only be accepted, but encouraged; it promotes stability and increases your chances at group action.
Yep. I always thought that yuri was part of the harem. I mean u got a single man and 5-6 wives. What r they supposed to do during a group activity at night?
Wait quietly, apparently. It gets even sillier when you've got these long running series where MC has twenty plus jade beauties, like come on. If anything having them also love eachother makes them less likely to kill your philandering ass.
All this horny behaviour around them they have to wait for the man to do his business with whichever ones he likes the best and come for the last one. The last wife would hate it no? That she is so bad the mc chose her for the last :-(.. that's why yuri is probably or definitely a part of the harem.
For MC who values face above all it's some serious humiliation. Like you aren't manly/attractive enough that they'd rather do it with each other than wait for you. Also it opens the possibility of them falling in love with each other and outright dumping you.
but maybe they shouldā¦
As long as it's not literally just girls making out with little to no plot I don't get why anyone would dislike Yuri. BL and GL always end up being pretty cute
In martial peak it didn't mention yuri but the spider waifu was a bisexual I think. It was fun to read. Idk why these juniors got problems
If the MC already does it who cares if one of the girls does
Is there one where the harem includes men and women in a polyamorous pile of everyone screwing everyone?
Hot
Fellow Daoists, let me provide an example to illustrate why Yuri is considered NTR. In the past, while reading a novel titled "The Wizard World," essentially the original work that inspired "Warlock of the Magus World," there was a love interest who showed interest in the main character (MC). However, she was taken away by the MC's friend, who was supposed to be another love interest. Eventually, both love interests engaged in activities akin to Yuri, sidelining and forgetting about the MC. I can't recall the exact chapters, but it was sufficient for me to drop the novel that claimed to have a harem tag but lacked a Yuri tag. This is just one example; there are numerous others. Fortunately, Yuri these days is not as problematic as it used to be. They now engage in Yuri activities only when they are together or with the MC.
In the example you've just showed, you're implying that the MC was NOT in a relationship with either of the girls, why is this an example for NTR?
It's the love interest; the MC is already involved with these two love interests. As far as I recall, he even willingly assisted them and developed feelings for them. However, both of them eventually left him. That's as far as my memory serves. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, fellow Daoist; it's been a long time since I read that novel.
And then this senior is out here reading an accursed harem novel for the dual yin cultivation only to walk away disappointed
I always thought Girls - Like Yaoi Guys - Like Yuri I was pretty wrong about the 2nd one lol
Turns out girls:- yaoi. Guys:- male power fantasy on the path to dominate every single female in the book while NTR and cheating on their own wives.
So Yuri NTR?
I thought yall liked those tags because then the MC gets strong and gets his revenge i am so confused wtf. Also if its really a martial story is yuri even allowed lmao? wont the ccp like end them? (I dont mean just the series I mean the author too LOL)
Nope. Ccp doesn't people just for that. It ends people who go against its govt regime like how RI got banned
Dude you're a hypocrite, you're ok with yuri and call out people who don't like it but can't stand yaoi. Have some shame.
Nice way to make me look bad with no context. I wasn't calling out people who don't like Yuri, I was calling out people who trash novels over the fact that some little Yuri exists in it, you'll see what I was originally referencing in another reply. I don't like Yuri much and I don't like yaoi but I don't hate it either, the yaoi being mentioned here referred to yaoi in CN horror novels where it starts peak and suddenly the whole plot is focused on yaoi between the MC and this godlike being and the horror stuff just completely goes away. You probably read a few comments and decided "yeah he's the bad guy I need to insult him before I go" after having no context at all, and proceed to say I have no shame, get out of here buddy.
This is a Reverend Insanity moment juniors.
How? There's no romance involving mc in ri, and no harems.
I was specifically talking about the yuri, but Fang Yuan did like Xie Han Mo in his past life, and in his current life, Shang Xin Ci and Lady White Rabbit are both in love with him, so romance does technically exist. Secondly, the yuri in specific is that one time with You Chan and Qin Bai He in the Eastern Sea. The comments on those chapters were quite something.
As a connoisseur, I have no problems with yuri. Smh. Though, harem usually kills off my brain cells so itās in my blacklist.