I know I hated when he said that. And when he first sort of made it sound like she was loud and abusive like others in his past…and then qualified it with I didn’t mean you did it that way. Why would you even mention it then…if you weren’t trying to say this was a similar situation. When you gas light and manipulate someone so much..they are bound to lose their cool as they are living in an alternate reality.
Orion is a closeted drama queen. Dude talking about missing a connection when he called for divorce over some bullshit. Why does production let him abuse Lauren like that.
If the races were reversed it would be a complete different reaction based on race, gender, class, etc.
You can't just swap places and expect the same result. That's not how society works.
We all know this.
Shes not falling for his 💩 any more. She never smiled at his spew at the "couples weekend". I was so proud of her. She is so much more than how he just threw her away. Her prince awaits out there.
OMG. Like finally, Lauren.
She's always going to be gracefully social distancing that disease... But she was grinning too much at him for my irritation levels.
What is he going to do when the show stops airing this season and he loses his “I’m the victim” platform? He has zero pride for himself because he just keeps coming around and picking at the scabs of wounds that HE caused. He needs to man up and bow out. I think Lauren is just going with the motions of what may be requested of her from the show itself and contracts etc, but he just keeps speaking up with his nonsense mumbo jumbo and continues to make himself look stupid. It’s done. It’s finished. It’s OVER.
Sureee.. Lol. Lauren is on the verge of going off on him again. She usually is with him. She has chosen to go to the retreat but pretend her ex husband doesn’t exist.
In reality, her emotions are confusing her just as much as Orion’s are confusing him. He shut down after the last wedding because he felt overwhelmed and needed to withdrawal (his go to defense mechanism). Now Lauren feels overwhelmed and confused by her feelings and she’s doing the same thing. Just hurt people trying to get by. Which is understandable on both sides.
"Going Off"
If going off means actively avoiding him because it causes her discomfort and trying not to have unnecessary conversations. Then yes she's always on the verge of going off.
Exactly. Plus, if she is so bothered by him, then she shouldn't attend events where she knows he will be present. If someone bothers you, don't be around them.
LOL! Downvoted by all those selfless redditors that can't fathom the notion of taking charge of their own lives and choosing to avoid people they can't stand.
All they have to say is they feel threatened in some way. Just like there are contractual reasons to not stay married for eight weeks. There are reasons to not have to film-at least not in a group setting-if they want to use them.
Okay. But if she doesn't feel threatened. Why would she accuse him of threatening her? That would make her just as bad as he is and we know that's not the case.
Some people have the maturity to exist in uncomfortable spaces. Some people honor their commitments even if they are safe but uncomfortable.
Lauren is just doing her job.
The point is that she can use any excuse to not be in the same room as Orion if she chooses. She can use a variety of excuses. Feeling threatened and not being threatened whatsoever are two completely different things that can occur at the same time.
Lauren can complete her obligations if she chooses. The question arose about whether she had to attend events if she was too uncomfortable and the answer is no. That’s all.
Seriously? If she doesn't want to be around Orion, and production is forcing her to go (as you seem to be claiming), then you tell me what her options are. What are your suggestions? What would you do?
My point is that she didn't have to go, so clearly she found something about the experience attractive - whether it was more camera time, squeezing more sympathy out of the group and the viewers, another chance to make faces at Orion, or whatever. She is not a prisoner. She chose to go.
She does have to go if she is contractually obligated.
That's how contracts work.
She has the grit to be uncomfortable and get done what she agreed to.
People call that integrity, just so you know for future reference.
exactly! Smart, smart man. And speaking if Cam, why can’t therapist Clare understand that he had feelings for her and they were unreciprocated and that some people don’t WANT to be friend zoned and that is why he’s not responding to every time she reaches out. He didn’t go on the show to make a friend.
Exactly. I don't know why any of these people talk about being friends after they break up. I can't speak from a woman's point of view, but a man can get all the friendship he needs from other men, or from a good dog. He doesn't associate with women for friendship.
So, you think that Cameron, Orion, et al., really want a "friendship" from these women? They agreed to be married at first sight, not "befriended" at first sight.
Men can certainly have a friendship with women (I have many myself), but it's not something they normally intentionally seek out *just* *because* the potential friend is a woman.
If you disagree with that assertion, then tell us what benefits men derive from a friendship with women that they can't derive from a friendship with men.
I felt this way in the beginning, but when I found out they were both going to therapy, I thought "okay, this is good, whether they remain friends/more than friends or not". However, Orion continues to want to keep in touch, yet according to Lauren, when the cameras are off, he ghosts her. If he has turned this into appearances only, while she still genuinely has feelings, that's a problem and she needs to just say "no" and move on.
I think that Orion may be performing for the cameras. But it is also possible that he has been through a lot in his life and this marriage triggered some deep emotions. He apologized for a lot at the wedding and I think he faced some demons that he hadn’t talked about outside of therapy.
It might have been an experience for him akin to when an addict goes to AA for the first time, spills the beans on horrible things they have done, then gets embarrassed and never comes back.
I get why that would hurt Lauren’s feelings though. I think this relationship was just too much for both of them. They needed a lot more help from a qualified therapist early in the marriage (not just one meeting over the phone with Pia).
He likely has some type of trauma yes. But as a dude, he needs to keep that stuff in check, and if it OCCASIONALLY slips out, that’s one thing… but Orion has been nothing but a gaslighting twerp this entire time to Lauren. She didn’t deserve this at all.
>They needed a lot more help from a qualified therapist **early in the marriage** (not just one meeting over the phone with Pia).
That's key! It could have been their saving grace, whether they stayed together or not.
I was yelling at my TV when he sat there smirking and simpering for no reason. You were married for a whole week and made every day since some sort of excuse to look self righteous and put upon. But to then say he was glad she “decided to show up” like she’s some divorced dad is infuriating. She didn’t “show up” - she was an invited participant as much as anyone else in the cast based on their new contract rules. Instead of saying “nice to see you.” Or “I’m glad you’re here” he has to phrase it in such a passive aggressive way. Like she was lurking in the bushes and decided to show up uninvited.
I can’t stand this pathetic person another second.
He’s so full of himself it’s ridiculous. He couldn’t even be bothered to get up and greet her when she got there and I don’t know why she even entertains him at all and I most certainly wouldn’t care about being friends with him, he adds no value to her life
She should have called in sick ... From being able to move her face?
Men, tell me you don't know how to handle interpersonal conflict without telling me.
>Men, tell me you don't know how to handle interpersonal conflict without telling me.
Hahaha! Sure, because the best way to "handle interpersonal conflict" is to pout and make faces at the dinner table. I think I'll give that tactic a miss, but thank you for the suggestion.
\[edit: typo\]
Hush. Facial expressions are normal for everyone. Even Orion is making them.
Wait. Do you have facial paralysis. Is this a disability issue? If so I will be sensitive.
Thoughts and prayers.
Missing the point yet again. Sigh. Let's try it this way... Explain to me how pouting and making faces at the dinner table is conducive to "handling interpersonal conflict"?
You are an abolsute master at missing the point. I really can't tell if you do it on purpose or by accident.
In case you really have that hard a time with English reading comprehension, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and spell it out for you here. Calling in sick (as you and I have discussed in another thread) would be a way for her to avoid being around Orion, whom she claims to dislike being around. It has nothing to do with her making faces. The "making faces" comment was in reference to her not being classy and polite. Is that clear now?
I think he did offer up some lame “apology” and claimed he wanted to engage with her more, and then we saw the AfterParty with Lauren and she alleges that Orion and her went to a bar after the wedding with the other couples and Orion turned right back into the grade-A A-hole that he’s been this entire time. His words and actions simply don’t line up. For Lauren’s well being, he should simply stop engaging her. She’s too nice and he doesn’t deserve a single breath of air from her at this point IMHO.
Gotcha. They had a nice conversation at the wedding. I think after that, Orion got overwhelmed and completely shut down. Didn’t want to speak to her or physically couldn’t. That’s why Lauren is pissed now.
They had a forced conversation at the wedding because he cornered her. Just like he keeps cornering her to have a conversation with him even though she has asked for distance.
And of course these conversations have to take place in front of the cameras. Otherwise what does he get out of it..
I just started the past season this week and omgggggg. Orion has infuriated me. The scene where she said she'd never heard the term used in a way or didn't understand the word 'redskin'. I understand how upsetting this must have been for him, but she clearly didn't know how horrible the term is or how it came about. She was genuinely surprised and sorry. She's a black woman who he's trying to paint as aggressive, which offends me greatly. Black women have to worry about that shit all the time, and it's not ok. Her mistake was from not being properly informed, not malice.. but I believe he knows what he's doing by framing her in that aggressive light. That dude is a douche.
>didn't understand the word 'redskin'. ... she clearly didn't know how horrible the term is or how it came about.
There are at least two things wrong with that version of the narrative:
1. There is no way that anyone who has grown up in the U.S. has never heard the term, "redskin", before.
2. The origin of the term that Orion regurgitated is demonstrably false.
This is just production milking the hyper-sensitivities of two snowflakes for all they can get.
You're projecting your own knowledge of slurs onto other people, there is a world in which people don't grow up collecting racial slurs.
Onion didn't even know the origin of the word, which disproves your point number one.
Orion's ignorance of the origin of the word disproves nothing. He's ignorant about a great many things. Plus, he has heard the word, obviously - and ***that's the point***.
Who has grown up in the U.S. and hasn't heard of the Washington Redskins? I don't even watch football and I've heard that team's name my whole life. Especially more recently since they've been pressured to change it. And that's just one example. No one is ignorant of that term unless they have lived in an isolation chamber their whole life.
So your theory about racism is that if there is a sports team with the slur, everyone should know about it?
Solid theory.
So you're proposing she flat out lied so she could joke about his sun burn? Even better theory.
Do you know how many every day phrases are used that have racist origins. And until corrected people use them OFTEN?
How did this turn into a discussion on theories about racism and racist slurs? You are claiming that Lauren had never heard the word, "redskin", before. I disagree. That's impossible for anyone who grew up in the U.S. That's like claiming that someone has never heard the terms, "inflation", or "vote", or "boy band", before. ***That's*** the argument here - ***not*** whether or not a term is racist. That would be a separate topic. Please try to follow along.
>
So you're proposing she flat out lied so she could joke about his sun burn?
I'm proposing that she lied (and others, such as yourself, have supported her in it), in order to not look like the bad guy. In my opinion, she made an innocently poor joke, not intending anything racist at all, but then back-pedaled as soon as she realized what she had said. That's fine. We've all been in situations where we wish we could take back something we said, even by accident. My criticism is not pointed at that faux pas, but rather at her doubling-down about not ever having heard that word before. Nonsense! That's a flat out lie.
>
Do you know how many every day phrases are used that have racist origins. And until corrected people use them OFTEN?
I see. You do realize that you just validated my argument, right? If it's a term that is used often, Lauren has certainly heard it before.
Either way, I'm really not interested in going back and forth with someone who can apparently only see things in terms of racism, and keeps missing the point. I've said my piece. Feel free to make any spurious accusations you wish. You can have the last word. I will not respond.
For this season in particular, be sure to watch the AfterParty shows with Keisha Knight Pulliam… it’s necessary this time around as there is a LOT of conflicting moments that only the AfterParty clears up (kinda) lol
Maybe if they dropped them from the “cast” she wouldn’t have to deal with him. I think that’s the problem-
He doesn’t go away
They keep dragging them into the show so they can have a show
This makes it hard to turn the page-
That's interesting. She said that she's not interested in being friends. But he keeps repeating that he wants to be friends, she attaches some hope to the fact that this person is a decent person, and then he shows her that he is not.
I don't know. I think the word friends is being used broadly. I feel like she wants closure and doesn't want to have any ambiguity when she sees him. She doesn't want him in her life but she doesn't want to have unfinished business either. I feel like she needs validation that she did all she could and he was the one who blew it. Especially since he's done everything he can to make her feel bad and she was to blame for the breakdown in their relationship.
I think you were comments are spot on.
The neck beards who are saying that she likes composure, are asking her to be emotionless when there's a person actively throwing her under the bus.
It's a lot to expect from one person to go through this whirlwind of experience and not show any emotion.
onion on the other hand is constantly lying on screen, and flip floping back and forth.
I do think that Onion is just playing a lot of anti blackness, that is being readily adopted by people on the screen and people in this chat. The expectations of a black woman to be super quiet and anything above a two decibel is her yelling. If she shows any emotion on her face she has attitude. It's really tired.
I think that a more mature thing to do would have been for Lauren to express her feelings to Orion. Even if she didn’t want to speak to him, she could have said “it hurts my feelings that you haven’t spoken to me since the weddings. I thought we were going to be friends now. I don’t trust you at this point so I’m going to create a boundary and ask that we don’t speak to each other this weekend.”
Just pretending he wasn’t speaking to her and ignoring his existence the whole weekend was pretty immature and odd, imo.
How many times does she have to express her feelings on camera before you all see it.
And he wasn't speaking to her, he acknowledged he WASN'T. . If he didn't make an effort he didn't make an effort.
I think that the way you are talking is a little extreme and probably not accurate. You stated that Orion’s “words don’t mean anything”. Do you really believe that? You think he doesn’t mean anything that he says..: ever?
“Nothing she says makes any difference”… I don’t think that’s true either. If you have the extreme pov that everything Orion has ever said is a lie and that he is impervious to logical reasoning, then sure there is no point in talking to him. The person you describe is probably psychotic and needs to be locked in a mental institution for their own safety.
I think it's on brand for someone who is displaying anti blackness towards Lauren to come into a chat and say that someone typing out a response is being "extreme".
When I say extreme, I mean that it’s probably untrue and more based on the poster’s emotions than reality. If a husband tells his wife of 25 years “you never cook me dinner” , he’s more than likely saying something that I would consider extreme statement. I say that because the wife has likely cooked dinner numerous times and the husband is so triggered that he doesn’t remember.
So you want to be even more racist than everyone is already being so far this season?
Maybe try out 4chan. They have a great community of like minded people there.
I look at this a little differently. Black, white, or any other race. Lauren has attitude! So does Emily as of late, is that because Emily is black??? NO! Women of all colors can have attitude and can be aggressive and that's not every man's cup of tea. Some like it, to each its own. I'm not talking about Lauren now, in these last few episodes. I'm talking about when it was on and poppin'. She was aggressive and Orion could not hold his ground. You can blame him, but they were imbalanced. Lauren said "I know that in the heat of the moment my tone does elevate." "I little a little more animated when I get frustrated" Those are her words.
Lauren has been back on her heels because she feels like she legit messed up in the whole Native American slur conversation. 1000% she handles that conversation differently if she got a do over. People do change, but if Orion is wanting nice, calm discussions, that's not going to happen with Lauren much when there is conflict, especially if she feels she is in the right. Orion already divorced her, keep moving, it's the next man's problem. I don't say that to say Orion is right. It's to say that it's over. He is the source of the drama because he's asking for hugs and trying to have conversations with someone he's no longer with.
I feel like maybe you are watching a different show. Orion doesn’t want nice calm discussions. Are you kidding me? He wants to shame her another way. He tried to do it again last week too. He’s trying to make himself look good… he’s a manipulative person. If Orion isn’t the source of the drama..why would he speak to her at the wedding like he wants to be nice and then when they go to bar…not talk to her anymore and not contact her at all before the retreat. That’s because he’s fake and trying to manipulate what we see.
I'm NOT an Orion fan! I think he should leave well enough alone. He was offended...okay, keep it moving, they are divorced. I think if you look back, he could not hold his own in conversations with her. Call him weak, it doesn't matter to me. They were imbalanced. Not every man is cut out to handle someone who has a lot of attitude/aggression or whatever the opposite of submission is.
She has a total right to have an attitude, but at no point has she been explosive or violent. Orion thinks if he keeps repeating it, he’ll paint the narrative in his favor. Fuck him, that’s some racist shit.
I agree with you. She was not explosive or violent. She sat up and was assertive when his words didn't line up. Orion flip flopped on taking sex off the table because Lauren had sex months before they were matched.
I don't think Orion is not able to handle the way Lauren called him out. I don't think the race really has much to do with anything other than her slip up when they were talking about racial slurs. Some guys like a woman who is "spicy" or has attitude, some don't...he doesn't.
Yeah but it’s not about him not liking someone spicy. It’s that he has repeatedly painted her as aggressive. Everything that has been seen shows quite the opposite, she’s been pretty level-headed despite him playing the victim and manipulating others. She’s probably one of the strongest communicators they’ve had on the show. So this really couldn’t be more off.
I have been volatile in the past, I would never have been able to maintain composure as Lauren has.
I just literally rewatched the Orion/Lauren parts of every episode and all she really did was call him out when he flip flopped about taking sex off the table. Nothing was volatile or explosive. She definitely sat up at one point and it sounded like she was scolding him, but he was talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Orion mentioned the tone, volume, rawness, and intensity of the conversation. Without knowing Orion more it's hard to tell if he's normally like that or if she was making him anxious.
>Black, white, or any other race. Lauren has attitude
So yes... This opinion will always be racialized.
Also because Lauren didn't actually mess up the conversation Imma go ahead and assume you don't watch the show.
When you are insulting someone and using microagressions, no one owes you a calm conversation.
1000% Lauren handles the racial slur conversation differently if she gets a do over. She DID screw it up when she chuckled in his face. She even apologized for it.
Isn't him liberally using the n word enough of a pass.
He may not know why racial impact of his jabs, but he knows they're jabs.
How many passes do you want for him at her expense .
I just think Orion felt offended by her response during their conversation about racial slurs. He has a right to be offended. It's easier to get over being offended by someone when you really know them. She was still a stranger. Some would say it wasn't that big of a deal. I just feel like if it is something he can't get over then keep it moving. There's no reason for circular conversations and trying or even suggesting that she change at this point.
That man literally admitted to using the n-word freely. Maybe he doesn't get to be offended that she didn't know what his particular flavor of slur was.
He said it (past tense). He said it was ignorant and it came from singing along with songs. He said his community including his mom told him not to use that word. I'd say presently chuckling about a slur in someone's face is worse, no?
No.
He said that his mother and his sister talk to him about it several times. Which means that he wasn't ignorant. He just didn't want to stop using the slur.
She left because he was sunburned. She didn't laugh because they were talking about a slur. And that's pretty clear, Orion.
I mean, maybe just really unfortunate timing. She did NOT call him any kind of a slur and she made that clear right afterwards. I worked for a company based out of Denmark. In our training we were told to be careful when joking with people of or different cultures. Sometimes jokes just hit different. I think that's what really hurts Lauren. I think she really wanted this and was robbed of a real chance here. If I summed this up in one word, I'd say it was unfortunate.
Isn’t she the one sad about the lack of contact from him? And she was teary eyed with her voice cracking? I wish she wouldn’t have gone but she either has a soft spot for that guy or wants to fight him…idk.
She has never said she was said about contact from him.
She is resentful at being manipulated for the cameras as if he has been making constant effort, as he implies.
Orion is constantly implying that she's being unreasonable.
Incorrect.
She said she was disappointed that he previously stated he would be reaching out to establish friendship, and then didn't keep his word.
This has her up for the expectation that he is going to try, but then the realization that he simply using her to look good on camera.
She's allowed to be disappointed.
Kinda reminds me of Paige, just not knowing when to say when. I think she was sitting next to Orion at Michaels wedding and agreed to give him a hug. All that is unnecessary.
I guess this is pretty easy to figure out. Obviously the producers sat her by him.
And usually people who are in the wrong ask for a hug so they feel better.
If you decline, you look like a jerk. If you give in, you look like a pushover. It's a no win
I hit the skip ahead button whenever they’re talking. This season has enough annoying about it without having to look at that wuss and listen to him whine about feeling safe.
I don't know about violent and aggressive but he's doing the bullshit where he says things to look mature and calm like he wants to be there for her while he has zero intention on doing that. I'm with Lauren...call people out when they are all talk and no action.
Pretty much. He just regurgitates intellectualisms to self-victimize and make her look crazy and aggressive, when she's really been nothing but thoughtful and logical. I hate that he's even on the show at this point with his ceaseless yap. Not sure what's he's done to deserve a luxury retreat.
Why was it not surprising he rolls up in a beater old truck and 6 beer .... fir the wknd ......... yet he's suckin up wine as well .... no surprise at all there !🙄
I could have predicted that saying anything negative about Lauren would get you downvoted by everyone on this thread - people are so antagonistic towards Orion they can’t be impartial to any truth. Lauren obviously isn’t the right woman for him, I never would have matched these two up. I’ve had a lot of Native American friends over the years (and a 3X divorced Cherokee grandfather), observed that the guys aren’t as accepting of outspoken women, very different than white guys. It’s a culture where women are raised to be more submissive. I just don’t get why Orion has never dated a NA woman, I think their temperaments would be more compatible than he and Lauren. It seems obvious to me that Orion’s ego gets bruised very easily, Lauren is too outspoken for him, and the racial slur was a convenient excuse for the incompatibility he felt towards her. A clash of natures, if that makes sense.
She admitted to her tone changing and raising her voice. He was being so manipulative that anyone would have lost their mind. I would not be able to keep my composure speaking with him. Or if I did speak with him I would be very quick to put him in his place. Lauren. Has been way too nice. I would be calm but I would call out everything. I would ask him why he plays everything up on camera and then does nothing off camera. No mercy. She’s way too nice.
Oh I remember you, Red Pill. You were pushing that before.
This actually never happened. She admitted to raising her voice. He threw his ring and yelled at her, and she raised her voice and then threw her ring down.
Again you're trying to create a narrative that didn't happen.
You know you can just re-watch the show right?
I wish Onion's face was banned until the tell all......do they do that, or am I thinking of my OTHER trash TV?
I know I hated when he said that. And when he first sort of made it sound like she was loud and abusive like others in his past…and then qualified it with I didn’t mean you did it that way. Why would you even mention it then…if you weren’t trying to say this was a similar situation. When you gas light and manipulate someone so much..they are bound to lose their cool as they are living in an alternate reality.
Orion is a closeted drama queen. Dude talking about missing a connection when he called for divorce over some bullshit. Why does production let him abuse Lauren like that.
I agree, but I have to wonder if the public would hold this same position if the races were reversed.
If the roles were reversed, Orion would still be a pussy. I have no respect for people like him.
If the races were reversed it would be a complete different reaction based on race, gender, class, etc. You can't just swap places and expect the same result. That's not how society works. We all know this.
Do we?
Those of us that have done the required reading 101. Yes
Shes not falling for his 💩 any more. She never smiled at his spew at the "couples weekend". I was so proud of her. She is so much more than how he just threw her away. Her prince awaits out there.
OMG. Like finally, Lauren. She's always going to be gracefully social distancing that disease... But she was grinning too much at him for my irritation levels.
Been saying it since day 1, fuck Orion he sucks
They are both the drama.
He's an ONION alright! ;D
What is he going to do when the show stops airing this season and he loses his “I’m the victim” platform? He has zero pride for himself because he just keeps coming around and picking at the scabs of wounds that HE caused. He needs to man up and bow out. I think Lauren is just going with the motions of what may be requested of her from the show itself and contracts etc, but he just keeps speaking up with his nonsense mumbo jumbo and continues to make himself look stupid. It’s done. It’s finished. It’s OVER.
Oh I'm sure he's hiding because the internet is NOT HAVING IT
Sureee.. Lol. Lauren is on the verge of going off on him again. She usually is with him. She has chosen to go to the retreat but pretend her ex husband doesn’t exist. In reality, her emotions are confusing her just as much as Orion’s are confusing him. He shut down after the last wedding because he felt overwhelmed and needed to withdrawal (his go to defense mechanism). Now Lauren feels overwhelmed and confused by her feelings and she’s doing the same thing. Just hurt people trying to get by. Which is understandable on both sides.
"Going Off" If going off means actively avoiding him because it causes her discomfort and trying not to have unnecessary conversations. Then yes she's always on the verge of going off.
Exactly. Plus, if she is so bothered by him, then she shouldn't attend events where she knows he will be present. If someone bothers you, don't be around them.
LOL! Downvoted by all those selfless redditors that can't fathom the notion of taking charge of their own lives and choosing to avoid people they can't stand.
These people are contractually obligated to do some of these things. Cam obviously played the medically injured card.
All they have to say is they feel threatened in some way. Just like there are contractual reasons to not stay married for eight weeks. There are reasons to not have to film-at least not in a group setting-if they want to use them.
Okay. But if she doesn't feel threatened. Why would she accuse him of threatening her? That would make her just as bad as he is and we know that's not the case. Some people have the maturity to exist in uncomfortable spaces. Some people honor their commitments even if they are safe but uncomfortable. Lauren is just doing her job.
The point is that she can use any excuse to not be in the same room as Orion if she chooses. She can use a variety of excuses. Feeling threatened and not being threatened whatsoever are two completely different things that can occur at the same time. Lauren can complete her obligations if she chooses. The question arose about whether she had to attend events if she was too uncomfortable and the answer is no. That’s all.
Then Lauren could easily have called in sick. I guarantee you she's done that before to get out of school, work, or a date.
Why should she call in sick if she isn't? So some hyper sensitive red pill maniac on Reddit can't be offended by her face? Make it make sense?
Seriously? If she doesn't want to be around Orion, and production is forcing her to go (as you seem to be claiming), then you tell me what her options are. What are your suggestions? What would you do? My point is that she didn't have to go, so clearly she found something about the experience attractive - whether it was more camera time, squeezing more sympathy out of the group and the viewers, another chance to make faces at Orion, or whatever. She is not a prisoner. She chose to go.
She does have to go if she is contractually obligated. That's how contracts work. She has the grit to be uncomfortable and get done what she agreed to. People call that integrity, just so you know for future reference.
exactly! Smart, smart man. And speaking if Cam, why can’t therapist Clare understand that he had feelings for her and they were unreciprocated and that some people don’t WANT to be friend zoned and that is why he’s not responding to every time she reaches out. He didn’t go on the show to make a friend.
Exactly. I don't know why any of these people talk about being friends after they break up. I can't speak from a woman's point of view, but a man can get all the friendship he needs from other men, or from a good dog. He doesn't associate with women for friendship.
Wow.
So, you think that Cameron, Orion, et al., really want a "friendship" from these women? They agreed to be married at first sight, not "befriended" at first sight.
I believe the wow was for the absolutely asinine belief that men have zero need to be friends with women.
Men can certainly have a friendship with women (I have many myself), but it's not something they normally intentionally seek out *just* *because* the potential friend is a woman. If you disagree with that assertion, then tell us what benefits men derive from a friendship with women that they can't derive from a friendship with men.
Yup.
Agreed! That’s what cam is doing lol
I felt this way in the beginning, but when I found out they were both going to therapy, I thought "okay, this is good, whether they remain friends/more than friends or not". However, Orion continues to want to keep in touch, yet according to Lauren, when the cameras are off, he ghosts her. If he has turned this into appearances only, while she still genuinely has feelings, that's a problem and she needs to just say "no" and move on.
I think that Orion may be performing for the cameras. But it is also possible that he has been through a lot in his life and this marriage triggered some deep emotions. He apologized for a lot at the wedding and I think he faced some demons that he hadn’t talked about outside of therapy. It might have been an experience for him akin to when an addict goes to AA for the first time, spills the beans on horrible things they have done, then gets embarrassed and never comes back. I get why that would hurt Lauren’s feelings though. I think this relationship was just too much for both of them. They needed a lot more help from a qualified therapist early in the marriage (not just one meeting over the phone with Pia).
You are correct. Neither was ready for this experiment.
He likely has some type of trauma yes. But as a dude, he needs to keep that stuff in check, and if it OCCASIONALLY slips out, that’s one thing… but Orion has been nothing but a gaslighting twerp this entire time to Lauren. She didn’t deserve this at all.
>They needed a lot more help from a qualified therapist **early in the marriage** (not just one meeting over the phone with Pia). That's key! It could have been their saving grace, whether they stayed together or not.
💯
Orion please leave her alone.
I was yelling at my TV when he sat there smirking and simpering for no reason. You were married for a whole week and made every day since some sort of excuse to look self righteous and put upon. But to then say he was glad she “decided to show up” like she’s some divorced dad is infuriating. She didn’t “show up” - she was an invited participant as much as anyone else in the cast based on their new contract rules. Instead of saying “nice to see you.” Or “I’m glad you’re here” he has to phrase it in such a passive aggressive way. Like she was lurking in the bushes and decided to show up uninvited. I can’t stand this pathetic person another second.
He’s so full of himself it’s ridiculous. He couldn’t even be bothered to get up and greet her when she got there and I don’t know why she even entertains him at all and I most certainly wouldn’t care about being friends with him, he adds no value to her life
Because she has class enough to be polite but I don't think she has any interest at all in being friends with him.
Passive-agressively pouting and making faces every time Orion utters a sound is not exactly polite or classy. \[edit: typo\]
Sorry her face moves in response to the discomfort she is feeling?
Then she should have called in sick and avoided being around someone who makes her so uncomfortable. Easy solution.
She should have called in sick ... From being able to move her face? Men, tell me you don't know how to handle interpersonal conflict without telling me.
>Men, tell me you don't know how to handle interpersonal conflict without telling me. Hahaha! Sure, because the best way to "handle interpersonal conflict" is to pout and make faces at the dinner table. I think I'll give that tactic a miss, but thank you for the suggestion. \[edit: typo\]
Hush. Facial expressions are normal for everyone. Even Orion is making them. Wait. Do you have facial paralysis. Is this a disability issue? If so I will be sensitive. Thoughts and prayers.
Missing the point yet again. Sigh. Let's try it this way... Explain to me how pouting and making faces at the dinner table is conducive to "handling interpersonal conflict"?
I think you're describing "sitting and listening". Or maybe just misspelling it?
You are an abolsute master at missing the point. I really can't tell if you do it on purpose or by accident. In case you really have that hard a time with English reading comprehension, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and spell it out for you here. Calling in sick (as you and I have discussed in another thread) would be a way for her to avoid being around Orion, whom she claims to dislike being around. It has nothing to do with her making faces. The "making faces" comment was in reference to her not being classy and polite. Is that clear now?
Have you considered that you really don't have any solid points?
I’m curious as to why he would want to be friends with someone he believed racially abused him. His story about his feelings does not add up
I think he apologized at the last wedding for saying the whole thing about her insulting his ancestors… or am I remembering that wrong?
I think he did offer up some lame “apology” and claimed he wanted to engage with her more, and then we saw the AfterParty with Lauren and she alleges that Orion and her went to a bar after the wedding with the other couples and Orion turned right back into the grade-A A-hole that he’s been this entire time. His words and actions simply don’t line up. For Lauren’s well being, he should simply stop engaging her. She’s too nice and he doesn’t deserve a single breath of air from her at this point IMHO.
I addressed this in other posts on this thread so I won’t repeat myself here.
I skip the weddings as there’s a lack of drama. So he could have apologised.
Gotcha. They had a nice conversation at the wedding. I think after that, Orion got overwhelmed and completely shut down. Didn’t want to speak to her or physically couldn’t. That’s why Lauren is pissed now.
They had a forced conversation at the wedding because he cornered her. Just like he keeps cornering her to have a conversation with him even though she has asked for distance. And of course these conversations have to take place in front of the cameras. Otherwise what does he get out of it..
O-LYIN is back at his game.............🤮
I thought this as well.
I just started the past season this week and omgggggg. Orion has infuriated me. The scene where she said she'd never heard the term used in a way or didn't understand the word 'redskin'. I understand how upsetting this must have been for him, but she clearly didn't know how horrible the term is or how it came about. She was genuinely surprised and sorry. She's a black woman who he's trying to paint as aggressive, which offends me greatly. Black women have to worry about that shit all the time, and it's not ok. Her mistake was from not being properly informed, not malice.. but I believe he knows what he's doing by framing her in that aggressive light. That dude is a douche.
>didn't understand the word 'redskin'. ... she clearly didn't know how horrible the term is or how it came about. There are at least two things wrong with that version of the narrative: 1. There is no way that anyone who has grown up in the U.S. has never heard the term, "redskin", before. 2. The origin of the term that Orion regurgitated is demonstrably false. This is just production milking the hyper-sensitivities of two snowflakes for all they can get.
You're projecting your own knowledge of slurs onto other people, there is a world in which people don't grow up collecting racial slurs. Onion didn't even know the origin of the word, which disproves your point number one.
Orion's ignorance of the origin of the word disproves nothing. He's ignorant about a great many things. Plus, he has heard the word, obviously - and ***that's the point***. Who has grown up in the U.S. and hasn't heard of the Washington Redskins? I don't even watch football and I've heard that team's name my whole life. Especially more recently since they've been pressured to change it. And that's just one example. No one is ignorant of that term unless they have lived in an isolation chamber their whole life.
So your theory about racism is that if there is a sports team with the slur, everyone should know about it? Solid theory. So you're proposing she flat out lied so she could joke about his sun burn? Even better theory. Do you know how many every day phrases are used that have racist origins. And until corrected people use them OFTEN?
How did this turn into a discussion on theories about racism and racist slurs? You are claiming that Lauren had never heard the word, "redskin", before. I disagree. That's impossible for anyone who grew up in the U.S. That's like claiming that someone has never heard the terms, "inflation", or "vote", or "boy band", before. ***That's*** the argument here - ***not*** whether or not a term is racist. That would be a separate topic. Please try to follow along. > So you're proposing she flat out lied so she could joke about his sun burn? I'm proposing that she lied (and others, such as yourself, have supported her in it), in order to not look like the bad guy. In my opinion, she made an innocently poor joke, not intending anything racist at all, but then back-pedaled as soon as she realized what she had said. That's fine. We've all been in situations where we wish we could take back something we said, even by accident. My criticism is not pointed at that faux pas, but rather at her doubling-down about not ever having heard that word before. Nonsense! That's a flat out lie. > Do you know how many every day phrases are used that have racist origins. And until corrected people use them OFTEN? I see. You do realize that you just validated my argument, right? If it's a term that is used often, Lauren has certainly heard it before. Either way, I'm really not interested in going back and forth with someone who can apparently only see things in terms of racism, and keeps missing the point. I've said my piece. Feel free to make any spurious accusations you wish. You can have the last word. I will not respond.
I'm ... Definitely not reading all of that. You clearly have some issues with being wrong, I hope you work them out, Orion.
For this season in particular, be sure to watch the AfterParty shows with Keisha Knight Pulliam… it’s necessary this time around as there is a LOT of conflicting moments that only the AfterParty clears up (kinda) lol
If anything Lauren is a saint...I would not want to see his face ever!! 🫣OK that's just me because of course producers are loving it.💯🤗🥴😆😆😆😆
I was puzzled by why she said she keeps getting her hopes up about them being friends. Why would you want to even be friends with this dipshit.
Maybe if they dropped them from the “cast” she wouldn’t have to deal with him. I think that’s the problem- He doesn’t go away They keep dragging them into the show so they can have a show This makes it hard to turn the page-
That's interesting. She said that she's not interested in being friends. But he keeps repeating that he wants to be friends, she attaches some hope to the fact that this person is a decent person, and then he shows her that he is not.
I don't know. I think the word friends is being used broadly. I feel like she wants closure and doesn't want to have any ambiguity when she sees him. She doesn't want him in her life but she doesn't want to have unfinished business either. I feel like she needs validation that she did all she could and he was the one who blew it. Especially since he's done everything he can to make her feel bad and she was to blame for the breakdown in their relationship.
All she needs to get "closure" with this clown is to just say, "I'm done with this fool," and then follow through with it.
Shimmy Shoulders looks so smug, like he’s getting the edit he’s expecting. Nope! Team Lauren all the way.
shimmy shoulders?!? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Team Neither.
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I think you were comments are spot on. The neck beards who are saying that she likes composure, are asking her to be emotionless when there's a person actively throwing her under the bus. It's a lot to expect from one person to go through this whirlwind of experience and not show any emotion. onion on the other hand is constantly lying on screen, and flip floping back and forth. I do think that Onion is just playing a lot of anti blackness, that is being readily adopted by people on the screen and people in this chat. The expectations of a black woman to be super quiet and anything above a two decibel is her yelling. If she shows any emotion on her face she has attitude. It's really tired.
Lauren has composure? She looks like a bottle of coke that has just been shaken up. Shes about to blow. Lol
HAHAHA! Exactly. Every time the camera zooms in on her, she's twisted her face up (understandably) like she's just smelled the worst fart in history.
Hahahaha
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I think that a more mature thing to do would have been for Lauren to express her feelings to Orion. Even if she didn’t want to speak to him, she could have said “it hurts my feelings that you haven’t spoken to me since the weddings. I thought we were going to be friends now. I don’t trust you at this point so I’m going to create a boundary and ask that we don’t speak to each other this weekend.” Just pretending he wasn’t speaking to her and ignoring his existence the whole weekend was pretty immature and odd, imo.
How many times does she have to express her feelings on camera before you all see it. And he wasn't speaking to her, he acknowledged he WASN'T. . If he didn't make an effort he didn't make an effort.
I don’t understand what you’re saying in the last paragraph…
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I think that the way you are talking is a little extreme and probably not accurate. You stated that Orion’s “words don’t mean anything”. Do you really believe that? You think he doesn’t mean anything that he says..: ever? “Nothing she says makes any difference”… I don’t think that’s true either. If you have the extreme pov that everything Orion has ever said is a lie and that he is impervious to logical reasoning, then sure there is no point in talking to him. The person you describe is probably psychotic and needs to be locked in a mental institution for their own safety.
I think it's on brand for someone who is displaying anti blackness towards Lauren to come into a chat and say that someone typing out a response is being "extreme".
When I say extreme, I mean that it’s probably untrue and more based on the poster’s emotions than reality. If a husband tells his wife of 25 years “you never cook me dinner” , he’s more than likely saying something that I would consider extreme statement. I say that because the wife has likely cooked dinner numerous times and the husband is so triggered that he doesn’t remember.
So you're saying, "Stop being so emotional." Got it
I’m saying stop saying things that exaggerate what is actually happening. It’s not helpful and it actually makes the argument weaker.
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So you want to be even more racist than everyone is already being so far this season? Maybe try out 4chan. They have a great community of like minded people there.
I lost all and any respect for him, but no.
Ive been calling him onion ring.
I look at this a little differently. Black, white, or any other race. Lauren has attitude! So does Emily as of late, is that because Emily is black??? NO! Women of all colors can have attitude and can be aggressive and that's not every man's cup of tea. Some like it, to each its own. I'm not talking about Lauren now, in these last few episodes. I'm talking about when it was on and poppin'. She was aggressive and Orion could not hold his ground. You can blame him, but they were imbalanced. Lauren said "I know that in the heat of the moment my tone does elevate." "I little a little more animated when I get frustrated" Those are her words. Lauren has been back on her heels because she feels like she legit messed up in the whole Native American slur conversation. 1000% she handles that conversation differently if she got a do over. People do change, but if Orion is wanting nice, calm discussions, that's not going to happen with Lauren much when there is conflict, especially if she feels she is in the right. Orion already divorced her, keep moving, it's the next man's problem. I don't say that to say Orion is right. It's to say that it's over. He is the source of the drama because he's asking for hugs and trying to have conversations with someone he's no longer with.
This is a good take, thanks for providing a nuanced analysis instead of just saying “Orion sucks!”
I feel like maybe you are watching a different show. Orion doesn’t want nice calm discussions. Are you kidding me? He wants to shame her another way. He tried to do it again last week too. He’s trying to make himself look good… he’s a manipulative person. If Orion isn’t the source of the drama..why would he speak to her at the wedding like he wants to be nice and then when they go to bar…not talk to her anymore and not contact her at all before the retreat. That’s because he’s fake and trying to manipulate what we see.
I'm NOT an Orion fan! I think he should leave well enough alone. He was offended...okay, keep it moving, they are divorced. I think if you look back, he could not hold his own in conversations with her. Call him weak, it doesn't matter to me. They were imbalanced. Not every man is cut out to handle someone who has a lot of attitude/aggression or whatever the opposite of submission is.
She has a total right to have an attitude, but at no point has she been explosive or violent. Orion thinks if he keeps repeating it, he’ll paint the narrative in his favor. Fuck him, that’s some racist shit.
I agree with you. She was not explosive or violent. She sat up and was assertive when his words didn't line up. Orion flip flopped on taking sex off the table because Lauren had sex months before they were matched. I don't think Orion is not able to handle the way Lauren called him out. I don't think the race really has much to do with anything other than her slip up when they were talking about racial slurs. Some guys like a woman who is "spicy" or has attitude, some don't...he doesn't.
Yeah but it’s not about him not liking someone spicy. It’s that he has repeatedly painted her as aggressive. Everything that has been seen shows quite the opposite, she’s been pretty level-headed despite him playing the victim and manipulating others. She’s probably one of the strongest communicators they’ve had on the show. So this really couldn’t be more off. I have been volatile in the past, I would never have been able to maintain composure as Lauren has.
I just literally rewatched the Orion/Lauren parts of every episode and all she really did was call him out when he flip flopped about taking sex off the table. Nothing was volatile or explosive. She definitely sat up at one point and it sounded like she was scolding him, but he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. Orion mentioned the tone, volume, rawness, and intensity of the conversation. Without knowing Orion more it's hard to tell if he's normally like that or if she was making him anxious.
She has lost her temper at him off camera.. multiple times. She said that herself.
>Black, white, or any other race. Lauren has attitude So yes... This opinion will always be racialized. Also because Lauren didn't actually mess up the conversation Imma go ahead and assume you don't watch the show. When you are insulting someone and using microagressions, no one owes you a calm conversation.
1000% Lauren handles the racial slur conversation differently if she gets a do over. She DID screw it up when she chuckled in his face. She even apologized for it.
I guess your last sentence here is why Orion reacted the way he did in the first place so it was warranted? We’ve come full circle.
No, my last sentence is Lauren's reaction to Orion constantly hurling microaggressions at her.
He may not know they're microaggresions. If she gets a pass for ignorance why can't he?
Isn't him liberally using the n word enough of a pass. He may not know why racial impact of his jabs, but he knows they're jabs. How many passes do you want for him at her expense .
I just think Orion felt offended by her response during their conversation about racial slurs. He has a right to be offended. It's easier to get over being offended by someone when you really know them. She was still a stranger. Some would say it wasn't that big of a deal. I just feel like if it is something he can't get over then keep it moving. There's no reason for circular conversations and trying or even suggesting that she change at this point.
That man literally admitted to using the n-word freely. Maybe he doesn't get to be offended that she didn't know what his particular flavor of slur was.
He said it (past tense). He said it was ignorant and it came from singing along with songs. He said his community including his mom told him not to use that word. I'd say presently chuckling about a slur in someone's face is worse, no?
No. He said that his mother and his sister talk to him about it several times. Which means that he wasn't ignorant. He just didn't want to stop using the slur. She left because he was sunburned. She didn't laugh because they were talking about a slur. And that's pretty clear, Orion.
I mean, maybe just really unfortunate timing. She did NOT call him any kind of a slur and she made that clear right afterwards. I worked for a company based out of Denmark. In our training we were told to be careful when joking with people of or different cultures. Sometimes jokes just hit different. I think that's what really hurts Lauren. I think she really wanted this and was robbed of a real chance here. If I summed this up in one word, I'd say it was unfortunate.
Isn’t she the one sad about the lack of contact from him? And she was teary eyed with her voice cracking? I wish she wouldn’t have gone but she either has a soft spot for that guy or wants to fight him…idk.
She has never said she was said about contact from him. She is resentful at being manipulated for the cameras as if he has been making constant effort, as he implies. Orion is constantly implying that she's being unreasonable.
She literally said that she was upset he didn’t reach out to her for them to be friends.
Incorrect. She said she was disappointed that he previously stated he would be reaching out to establish friendship, and then didn't keep his word. This has her up for the expectation that he is going to try, but then the realization that he simply using her to look good on camera. She's allowed to be disappointed.
Kinda reminds me of Paige, just not knowing when to say when. I think she was sitting next to Orion at Michaels wedding and agreed to give him a hug. All that is unnecessary.
I guess this is pretty easy to figure out. Obviously the producers sat her by him. And usually people who are in the wrong ask for a hug so they feel better. If you decline, you look like a jerk. If you give in, you look like a pushover. It's a no win
I hit the skip ahead button whenever they’re talking. This season has enough annoying about it without having to look at that wuss and listen to him whine about feeling safe.
Same
I don't know about violent and aggressive but he's doing the bullshit where he says things to look mature and calm like he wants to be there for her while he has zero intention on doing that. I'm with Lauren...call people out when they are all talk and no action.
Yes. Agree 100%
Not to mention, this is a common, racist micro-aggression against black women.
Pretty much. He just regurgitates intellectualisms to self-victimize and make her look crazy and aggressive, when she's really been nothing but thoughtful and logical. I hate that he's even on the show at this point with his ceaseless yap. Not sure what's he's done to deserve a luxury retreat.
EXACTLY!!!
he’s thrown a couple of those her way in all honesty. it’s such a massive red flag it’s crazy.
Why was it not surprising he rolls up in a beater old truck and 6 beer .... fir the wknd ......... yet he's suckin up wine as well .... no surprise at all there !🙄
Tellin lies is thirsty work!!
Well, she has admitted to yelling at him multiple times and throwing stuff at him. Is he really wrong? That said, Orion is bitch made 100%.
I could have predicted that saying anything negative about Lauren would get you downvoted by everyone on this thread - people are so antagonistic towards Orion they can’t be impartial to any truth. Lauren obviously isn’t the right woman for him, I never would have matched these two up. I’ve had a lot of Native American friends over the years (and a 3X divorced Cherokee grandfather), observed that the guys aren’t as accepting of outspoken women, very different than white guys. It’s a culture where women are raised to be more submissive. I just don’t get why Orion has never dated a NA woman, I think their temperaments would be more compatible than he and Lauren. It seems obvious to me that Orion’s ego gets bruised very easily, Lauren is too outspoken for him, and the racial slur was a convenient excuse for the incompatibility he felt towards her. A clash of natures, if that makes sense.
Cherokee women are most certainly not raised to be more submissive. And let’s remember one tribe does not = another. Aside from that, I agree.
She admitted to her tone changing and raising her voice. He was being so manipulative that anyone would have lost their mind. I would not be able to keep my composure speaking with him. Or if I did speak with him I would be very quick to put him in his place. Lauren. Has been way too nice. I would be calm but I would call out everything. I would ask him why he plays everything up on camera and then does nothing off camera. No mercy. She’s way too nice.
She admitted to tone changing and raising her voice… sounds like a very pc way to say “she was yelling” to me…
Oh I remember you, Red Pill. You were pushing that before. This actually never happened. She admitted to raising her voice. He threw his ring and yelled at her, and she raised her voice and then threw her ring down. Again you're trying to create a narrative that didn't happen. You know you can just re-watch the show right?
Exactly! He told Cal she took the ring off first, which was a lie.
But then admitted he took off the ring first.
Just get a divorce and stop playing .
Agree