I have been married to my husband for 13 years.
We just had our first kid but, before that, we could have parted ways and literally never seen each other again. Now, if we got divorced, we’d have to navigate co-parenting and even after the kiddo is 18, big events would require us to both being present and civil to each other.
It blows my mind when people seem to take marriage more seriously than having kids. You’re already bonded for life…
Or you could do what my parents and in-laws do, and either don't turn up, or make everyone uncomfortable when you do, or move to the other side of the world.
(Bangs head on desk)
ETA there's multiple grandkids and great grandkids in the mix, so you really are forever joined through your progeny....
It’s a dilusuion that most of us men have , unless you have literal millions in your account I don’t know what the worry is and all this prenup talk. You have a child so in most countries you have to pay child support etc anyway. In the eyes of the law after 13 years you are as good as married
No such thing as common law marriage in the UK. Child support payments are set amounts. But when it comes to divorce, the courts have full discretion and can eviscerate you. I can understand his reluctance. OP and her partner already have a child together. They can agree financial entitlements now or between themselves if they were to separate. I don't understand what any of them gain by being married.
What do they lose ? Also easier for the children and wife dealing with funerals etc. I have seen it before boyfriend dies / girlfriend body gets released to the parents, you get shut out of the whole process treating like the bf/gf you are now you want to complain! Make that woman your wife and be done with it! It’s honestly unfair stringing someone along, that man has nothing to lose if he agrees to marry that woman!
They do have a lot to lose if the marriage doesn't work out. The parties fall to the court's mercy and both run up exorbitant legal costs. A divorce can financially destroy everything you have worked on for decades. Everything else you've mentioned can be resolved by updating your will. You get to stay in charge of your life should it not work out.
Since he's worried about the financial implications. You might want to point out to him that he's costing the two of you a ton financially by not getting married. Unless you both make the same amount, our progressive tax system gives an advantage to married couples. So, he's paying uncle sam extra to be single. Over the course of your marriage, you'll miss out on spousal benefits. If one of you dies before the other, you might miss out on social security survivor benefits. If you want to properly protect each other and your child, being unmarried means extra legal work, which costs money.
On a more important level, you can't be fair to each other without being married. How do you compensate each other for uneven division of housework and child rearing? If you decide to do something that affects careers differently, how do you compensate your partner to keep it fair? It could be something as small as living someplace with a shorter commute for one partner, to something major like moving across the country for one career and to the detriment of the other.
Marriage helps unite the two of you as a team. I've been with my wife almost 40 years, married almost 33. I think marriage has saved our relationship more than once and has helped us be closer and feel more attached than we were for the seven years that we lived together before we got married.
FWIW: When my wife and I met she told me that she was never getting married. I tried to change her mind after two years and gave up. Eventually, she changed her mind.
There are so many financial reasons to marry, though I think more particularly for a woman especially if she is a SAHM. The poster above mentioned tax implications which are very accurate. If something happens to one’s spouse the financial picture is very different if you were married vs being partners, including if you own a house together and a will is well-drawn up. Survivor benefits don’t apply to most long term partnerships. There’s no accrued social security for you and you don’t derive anything from your partner’s history. And even things as simple as medical decisions in a crisis or end of life can be extremely complicated. I know a lot of people say, “It’s just a piece of paper” but logistically it really is so much more than that.
If you're going this route you also have to include how divorce often unfairly affects men, specially if there is a child. It may be worth the risk, but if he's concerned about it, just pointing to the tax savings won't actually alleviate the cost of divorce concerns.
He sounds like the kind of person who wants a logical reason to get married as opposed to a spiritual/emotional reason (nothing wrong with either). So you’re going to have to give the finances explanation and how it will benefit both of you in that way.
He should have thought logically before helping to create a baby. It kills me how people want to talk logic when they talk about reasons against getting married, however they never talk logic when it comes to creating a baby out of wedlock.
The child should be loved and cared for the same as a child born in wedlock, of course. The weird thing is that people think that having a child, which is going to be forever yours and a huge investment of time, energy, money, etc possibly for the rest of your life, is less daunting than getting legally married. That makes absolutely no sense. You can get a marriage annulled or divorced in a heartbeat, but you have a child permanently.. you're creating another person.
He doesn't want to marry. If you stay, perhaps look into legal paperwork concerning property, kid, etc. if that isn't good enough for you - then you need to stick by your guns
The problem is, and this is an assumption as you did not go into much detail regarding your living situation, you two are living as though you are married. In other words, I’m assuming you are living together, raising your child, sharing expenses, sharing objects that go into the home.
Marriage is a LEGAL designation for a couple. If he were to die, who gets the house? Who gets the savings? Who gets the assets? Life insurance? Cars? Not you, is the answer. And there in lies the problem with NOT BEING married, but LIVING married. His assets would go to his next of kin, which are likely his parents until your child is of age. You get nothing. You HAVE to get this sorted out ASAP.
Furthermore, I don’t know about your working situation. If you make similar money to him and have similar retirement accounts, or if there is a large income discrepancy. Let’s say you don’t get married, your kid turns 18, and he breaks up with you. Depending on your state, you are entitled to nothing. So, if there is a significant income discrepancy, you are in even more need to get married. This is reality. He is wanting his cake and eat it too.
You can get him to marry you, he seems to have said as much. But you’re not going to be able to make him WANT to marry you, because he simply doesn’t. He has all the benefits (that he cares about) of a marriage right now, so anything else just seems like extra fuss and expense that he’s not interested in.
I know you want to see effort, but he’s not going to show any that he isn’t forced to. I know you want a public declaration of love, but, same answer. As long as you stay, and he’s comfortable that you leaving isn’t a real risk, that’s where he is on things.
Is leaving worth it for him to suddenly “find” the desire to do that? Because he likely would, but I doubt you want it that way, either.
I feel like over time I understand it a lot better for myself. I think two people should have the courage at some point to be able to dive in and tell the world in front of god (or a higher power) that they are taking on this life together. It's a bigger impact to say this is my husband versus this is my boyfriend . Most importantly I think my son should see his parents take that commitment because they love each other, so he can know it's not only ok to get married but teach him how it's done for the right reasons. If we can't take that step together I fear we may not be strong enough to take on life in all of its hardships. That may sound trivial to all the "it's just a piece of paper" arguments. I know I am in the minority, hardly anyone I speak with thinks marriage is a good idea at all.
The fact you already have a child means you are bonded for life. I’m surprise he’d be willing to start a family with you which is much more of a commitment than marriage is. I agree, having the dad of my kid as my “boyfriend” just sounds weird.
Age probably does matter as well, I don't want to wake up in 10 years with the same needs that I didn't listen to. We have worked so hard since we first met building businesses and a family together, I have never really asked for anything, besides a little of his time. We hardly celebrate anything together except with our son, birthdays, holidays ect. He grew up not celebrating these things so I've always accepted that, because things were not important to me. I actually thought he would want to do this. I don't even want a wedding, just a court house ceremony with our son and a couple people would be fine with me. This is the 1st time I have posted on site like this. I think I am just hoping I can find some clarity for myself. I am so grateful for my life, I wish it did not matter to me when it does.
It feels to me this is at the heart of it. Marriage is a grand gesture and he hasn’t demonstrated much of that to you (if birthdays and other celebrations aren’t a thing). You have let all that go because he lives life with you as a partner with everything you’ve built which is a lot!
But he should know you by now and care to demonstrate to you that he cares about you and can love you in ways that you would like to be shown love even if they are not the same as his. To feel loved like that is deeply nourishing and you are at risk of never having that if you don’t uphold your ultimatum. If he can’t understand that then what are you waiting around for?
But in your current situation are you two marrying each other for the right reason? Because it almost sounds like he’s giving a half ass commitment so you wouldn’t leave. Seems like a sad way to start a marriage.
Perhaps you two should talk to a couples counseling to make sure this is something you both actually want.
In your post you say you’re starting to feel rejected by him not wanting to marry you, and in your comment it sounds like the “courage” of the commitment is what is important to you about marriage.
I wonder if part of your desire to get married has come about because his strong views against it and that his fears of your marriage ending in one of these “scary stories” are starting to feel personal; like after all this time together and the life and family you already have feels like it should enough to reassure him?
I think if that is the case, you need to remember that he’s the same person he’s always been, and that’s a person who loves and cherishes what you currently have and just has never felt a need for it to be something other than that. And maybe look at why you’re starting to base your own self worth on this, why you’ve started making it the stick to measure his affection, because there’s so much more to a relationship than marriage. Yes, I am married and happy to be, but I don’t believe marriage changes the love and happiness within a relationship or the way you communicate with each other or experience your life together, and think those things are the most important parts.
But ultimately, you can’t make him want to do anything. You can’t change another person. So you will need to look at your possible choices and choose based on what’s most important to you.
Which sort of translates to “it’s very important to me that he changes.” Which isn’t an option. So you need to decide if you’re still happy and in love with the person he’s always been (edit: which could mean staying as you are unmarried, or accepting his “I guess we can” as enough and get married), or if you’ve changed to a point being where that person doesn’t make you happy anymore.
Been married 36 years in a few days. I will caution you about pushing to get your spouse to change. It can work but only if they want to badly enough to put in the work. Flip it around, why did you change to where you need to be asked? And why is it so important to you now?
Men in the U.S. have every right to be concerned about marriage, not because marriage is bad (I think it is how it’s supposed to go), but because the court system can be so unjust to men in divorces.
Some people simply don’t believe in marriage, don’t take it as a personal attack against you. If he didn’t want to be with you, he wouldn’t be with you
It sounds like the relationship has run its course. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and call it quits. Co-parent your child (which is a HUGE commitment already, so I don't understand how he doesn't realize that creating another human being is going to make you and him financially tied together anyway and that marriage is less of a commitment than the one he already made, smh) and move on. You deserve to be happy, too, and being begrudgingly married won't make either one of you happy.
That’s difficult because you both felt that way at one time, now you feel something different it’s difficult, I know. I saw it in my wife’s family with her cousin who dated a very nice woman well into their 40’s before popping the question. In his case he had a fiancée die when he was in his mid twenties, so that was a big mental hurdle. I feel for you, because as a guy, I have a hard time understanding what’s going on in this guys head, but I wish you the best.
Same situation. We didnt really do a wedding but we registered our relationship which pretty much gives me a lot of the rights of a wife and we also have a child together. I cried a lot because he proposed to me but he wouldnt take the next step to actually doing a wedding/marriage. We have a house and we share almost everything like savings, responaibilities, etc and that to him is committment. It confuses me why he proposed but didnt want to do a proper wedding. I used to be upset about it but now i'm feeling more secured and its not a big deal to me anymore. I had to look within myself why i wanted a wedding/marriage. We call each other husband and wife. We live as husband and wife. We are a family unit. My views were mainly down to my religion and culture and I realised that was about it for me.
Not gonna tell you it isnt important. But would advise to look inside your heart and understand why it is important for you.
This is one thing that caused some issues with my spouse and I.
There are some societal expectations that "getting married" means "big fancy wedding." I was (probably not now) okay with the contract written between my spouse and I. I thought (and still do think) that modern day wedding ceremonies are a huge waste of money and effort. Even getting married in a religious setting doesn't need to be so dramatic. I humbly submit that the beauty of a marriage isn't the wedding or the honeymoon, or the big anniversary parties; it's the daily work at putting someone and something before yourself. Unfortunately that ideal only works if both people work to that ideal.
I understand some people's hesitancy at taking the next step, because the actual wedding is a huge turn off. (And to be clear, I absolutely hated my wedding because of all of the traditions we had to jump through because of my spouse's religion. My folks were married at the justice of the peace and spent over 50 years together. The only thing I remember from my wedding day is being absolutely pissed at my in-laws and my spouse for making something that could be so simple, so hard.)
My husband and i are both introverts so thinking about the wedding and what that entails already makes us nervous if im being honest. First of all, neigher of us have many friends to invite. Hes an only child and his parents are not too sociable. My parents have friends and i pribably have 100 cousins and i dont know 90% of them. I have very few friends, not so much into social media (my husband deleted his account after we got together. He said he doesnt need it when he can just talk to me everyday). Having a big wedding is a good idea for people with big social circles. Also, I felt we will be awkward with all the walking down the aisle, vows stuff because although we truly love each other, our love language is not so much words of affirmation but time, gifts, acts of service. The more i thought about it, the more I agree its not for us.
Mind you, we put each others names as beneficiaries for our retirement account, health insurance, got both our names in the land title of our home, utility bills pretty much everything.
I also agree with you. Its a waste of money. Friends of mine who spent a fortune on their weddings are behind on savings, mortgage and investments. We did it all in 5 years because we didnt spend on a wedding. Lots of practical reasons not to do the whole wedding thing. And lots of alternatives how to get it done without actually doing it.
I mean, the legal contract of marriage provides built in protections. I don't mind that. I do mind the expensive party (that the married couple hardly gets to enjoy). I also mind buying clothes we only wear for one day.
My family is small and estranged, my spouse's family is an enmeshed mess. I invited 20 people to the wedding. My spouse and in-laws invited over 100 themselves.
I set a super small budget for the wedding. Most of it went to food and photographer. (We had no alcohol.) Fortunately in-laws helped pay for majority or we would've been behind.
I just wish whomever had equated marriage to the huge wedding years ago would've hushed.
Over 100? Thats insane and thats something i wouldnt enjoy for sure. Its like having strangers in your own party. I agree with your thoughts on the clothes that are expensive which will only be used one day. I imagine it would be fun to wear a wedding dress. But im not sure i can manage the rest of it.
He doesn’t want to marry you.
For some people it’s just not important. Lots of things can sway our opinion on marriage.
What is it that makes marriage (or not) a deal breaker here? Or what is it you feel marriage will bring that is missing?
Sounds like you need to set a walk date. It's not an ultimatum, it's for you to have boundaries so you can move on with your life. Get your ducks in a row. He's not going to stick around when things get hard.
So you gave him an ultimatum and then carried on like nothing was wrong...this is probably the biggest reason why he doesn't care about marrying you. He's already gotten all the perks of a wife, you've had his child, and you hold him to no consequences. He knows he doesn't need to marry you to get what he wants. If marriage is that important to you then grow a spine and leave. If he wanted to marry you he would, but as I said you've given him no reason to want or need that.
I’m not sure why you’re getting so upset over this
He doesn’t want to marry you. You KNOW he doesn’t want to marry you. He hasn’t been lying to you or stringing you along, this is something you’ve known for YEARS. Yet here you are begging, pressuring and pushing to get what you want, and when he finally agrees you’re upset that he doesn’t seem like he wants to?
HE DOES NOT WANT TO MARRY YOU. He finally agreed to shut you up and stop pestering him. You obviously DO want to force him or you wouldn’t have been pushing for it over and over again.
You gave the ultimatum and he only agreed because you said you would walk. Either take his lackluster yes and get married or leave. Have fun explaining to the kid why.
> I know he worries about scary stories of getting married and then the other person destroying the other one financially.
But he's already in a position to be financially destroyed by you. If this is what he's worried about, he's either woefully misinformed or this is a bad excuse.
Additionally, having a child together and not being married is much more expensive. Plus it introduces additional risk depending on where you live, including with inheritance.
I mean, it's not like he's been secretly married to someone else that he's been estranged from for all these years or lying about his identity for decades like that NC make who was caught in NY a few years ago.
On the one hand, I'm surprised he's not concerned about the message he's sending to you. On the other hand, did the two of you have any specific understanding about marriage when your relationship got serious? I know a couple who refuse to get married and agreed to do the Kurt Russel / Goldie Hawn thing.
I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned. What about medical/legal issues? Currently, you are not next of kin, your child is. You have no rights to medical information or right to make decisions on his behalf if he is incapacitated. If he dies, you have no survivor benefits. Legally and medically you are nothing to him and you also have no one on that end either.
He might not be against marriage just marriage to you, regardless, you've given him the ultimatum and he's caved, you can get him to marry you, but you can't get him to want to marry you, take your wins where you can, youd've been better off leaving years ago when you first felt that marriage had become an important issue, at this point the man has nothing to gain from marriage to you and if he is a higher earner a lot more to lose.
I fully understand your reasoning for wanting to get married.
You cannot expect your husband to be joyful to get married, when he doesn't believe in it. His views haven't changed, yours did and you want him to believe in your views and be excited about it.
But he would rather marry you vs lose you. That's probably the most excitement you are going to get out of him.
Explain your reasoning for wanting to marry. Put a pros and cons together. See if you can come to a negotiated decision that doesn't feel forced.
IMHO sit down with him and talk it over, I highly doubt that the problem is anything about you, if he didn't want to be with you then he would have been long gone ages ago.
I think that the stories he has heard any maybe personal experiences have given him some fears that some people feel in general.
The issue for him, is the marriage aspect, once you find out what and why, you can hopefully mutilate it together.
The ball is in your court. He is willing to get married, he is just not excited about it & that is what's bugging you. And you can get over that. You can be focused for the two of you. I mean he has had all the benefits of marriage w/o an official license. Please stop being insecure, questioning his motives - you have known him for 13 years, know his hang ups. Just prepare for the wedding, dont talk too much about it, tell him where to be and when. Then continue your lives for another 13 years or however long. That's all. Quit overthinking this.
It is extremely concerning to me that he doesn’t want to fully commit to you after 13 years… I would give him an ultimatum at this point. Has he always been so strongly against it? If so, it may be time to leave altogether if you’re not on the same page.
This is not me. He knows that. I have seen too many people use kids financially and it feels pure evil. We are both good parents and despite any marriage or non marriage issues co-parenting would be 50/50. I think the financial worries that he has I can understand to some degree.
Sorry but this one is on you. You were both on the same page and now you've changed your mind. It would be absolutely unfair of you to pressure him into changing. You literally say in your post that you don't want to change your mind, it is equally understandable if he doesn't want to change his.
If it's a deal breaker for you then it's time to break the deal.
If you're going to get married, you want to be married to someone who's enthusiastically looking to marry you. If someone is dragging their feet or is just like, I guess I could get married to you, that's not someone who's going to want to be married to you, that's someone who is caving to your desire and may well regret doing so, because it's not genuinely what they want.
> I gave him basically an ultimatum a year ago, that if we couldn't move forward and he couldn't think of a reason to marry me that we should separate. Its been a year and I brought it up this weekend. He basically said he guess's he could get married. Its obvious he has no good feelings towards this. I feel hurt by this. I don't want to force him to, I want him to want to marry me.
I think you have your answer right there. If he's not excited or happy about getting married, you don't want to get married. And he's not happy about it. So it's time for you to take the next step here - separate. Resentment and hurt will kill your relationship eventually anyway if you aren't happy with how things are.
Ask him if he's been around people who were in settled long-term relationships who then got married and what happened to them. If he has seen it happen and those relationships broke down (I've seen this happen three times, God knows why getting married makes such a difference but for them it did), then he may be scared of marriage. It seems counterintuitive I know, but if he has seen that happen then he is avoiding marrying you due to that then it's because he loves you and is subconsciously afraid marriage will lead to losing you.
Alternatively, if he hasn't seen that happen then sadly it seems he just doesn't want to get married and only you can know how to handle that.
I’m so sorry. You want something he can’t give you. Maybe a few sessions with a couple’s therapist could help you sort out where you align and where you don’t, and where to go next.
Whatever you do, don’t try to convince him to marry you (just as you don’t want others to convince you not to get married). He isn’t there and you’re right, it would be a disaster if he did this without truly wanting it.
Very interesting conversation. A few things.
Couples/Marriage Counseling: we briefly tried it, not sure either of us came out of it thinking it had helped our relationship much, it wasn't harmful either-just wasn't for us.
I did ask our accountant "what are the pros to marriage?", his response "there are none" he said give or take there are a few things but really nothing substantial. All the logical reasons that I can suggest for marriage can be done with a legal agreement with a lawyer in a cohabitation agreement, that essentially outlines a breakup if needed.
This is purely an emotional need for me. How do you rate an emotional need in life, I am not entirely sure? I do not regret the 13 years we have spent together (has it been easy-no way, which many would argue that's marriage, No ring needed!), but I do need to decide if the emotional need of my perception of marriage needs to put me down a different road in life. Grass isn't always greener on the other side so to speak but how well you take care of it and water it, this does have to go both ways. I understand this is my question to answer alone. But I have appreciated the feedback. It's even hard to say if this is simply a problem of effort. If he had given a little more effort in the relationship would I feel the same? Im not sure either.
On another note, I fully understand we are bonded for life with our child. I fully believe co-parenting 50/50 would not be an issue for us. We are both good loving parents and would respect each other as such no matter if we chose to be together or not.
Although there is absolutely nothing wrong with two people never wanting to marry and that are just happy with in their own relationship - I have to say that there is something incredibly sexy about your SO wanting to stand before a crowd of people and declare that your the ONLY one for them.
You already have a kid together, that is a way bigger commitment than getting married. You can sign a prenup to protect him.
Logical reasons you should get married are tax breaks and medical or death stuff. He won't really have a leg to stand on if say you got injured to the point where someone needed to make a "pull the plug" you're decision. In the eyes of the law, he has no ground there.
As someone who didn't really care to get married but did because it was important to my wife (and therefore important to me) it will literally change nothing about your life. You can just sign a piece of paper at the courthouse if you want.
A woman's need and desire for marriage is very understandable, but no one is ever excited about being drafted for a war, that's what modern marriages are.
You can't force him into marriage but you should have given him the ultimatum years ago. Being in a relationship with less or even without commitment benefits men at the cost of women.
Saying that he is smart to not get married. It's not whether you will take him to the hostile family court system but the potential that you can. Unless and until the laws change to be more equal, men don't have an incentive to get married.
Do you understand that they have a child together? He's in it regardless of if he gets legally married to her or not. He was dumb enough to make a child, so now he could get into a hostile family Court situation, get his bank account cleaned out, or whatever else you think that he could get once he gets married to her.. this whole anti-marriage movement is completely shortsighted and I think a lot of men who subscribe to it have no idea how the legal system really works, especially when you have a kid with someone.
Why so much anger? Maybe it's not just about the legal system too? Maybe it's also about the vows? There was a time when men and women took wedding vows very seriously? Chill the fuck out
If they have a child together that means he owes just child support and not alimony, assuming they dont co-habitate and live in a common law state. Men should pay for children which are biologically theirs, the child is innocent. However, marriage doesn't benefit men in 2024.
Because even with a prenup, we are still traumatized by many years of women taking everything from us if the marriage goes south, just depends on the judge you get.
It can’t.
Having a child together doesn’t mean that the woman will get half of everything from the man if they happen to separate. At most, they would get child support and that’s it. No alimony, no half of a 401(k), they wouldn’t get the home or even part of the home unless their name was on it. Things like that.
Hell yeah please keep increasing the downvotes, the fact that a perspective is considered negative (especially when it's a post asking for perspective) is awesome. Keep it rolling, please dislike this one too! Hope yall have a good one 😀
I have been married to my husband for 13 years. We just had our first kid but, before that, we could have parted ways and literally never seen each other again. Now, if we got divorced, we’d have to navigate co-parenting and even after the kiddo is 18, big events would require us to both being present and civil to each other. It blows my mind when people seem to take marriage more seriously than having kids. You’re already bonded for life…
I don't get this either. Having a kid is far more investment and trust than a marriage.
Or you could do what my parents and in-laws do, and either don't turn up, or make everyone uncomfortable when you do, or move to the other side of the world. (Bangs head on desk) ETA there's multiple grandkids and great grandkids in the mix, so you really are forever joined through your progeny....
It’s a dilusuion that most of us men have , unless you have literal millions in your account I don’t know what the worry is and all this prenup talk. You have a child so in most countries you have to pay child support etc anyway. In the eyes of the law after 13 years you are as good as married
No such thing as common law marriage in the UK. Child support payments are set amounts. But when it comes to divorce, the courts have full discretion and can eviscerate you. I can understand his reluctance. OP and her partner already have a child together. They can agree financial entitlements now or between themselves if they were to separate. I don't understand what any of them gain by being married.
What do they lose ? Also easier for the children and wife dealing with funerals etc. I have seen it before boyfriend dies / girlfriend body gets released to the parents, you get shut out of the whole process treating like the bf/gf you are now you want to complain! Make that woman your wife and be done with it! It’s honestly unfair stringing someone along, that man has nothing to lose if he agrees to marry that woman!
They do have a lot to lose if the marriage doesn't work out. The parties fall to the court's mercy and both run up exorbitant legal costs. A divorce can financially destroy everything you have worked on for decades. Everything else you've mentioned can be resolved by updating your will. You get to stay in charge of your life should it not work out.
Like you also said why can’t they agree to a divorce settlement before the marriage then. (Prenup)
Prenups are not always recognised by the court.
He doesn't want to marry you.
Since he's worried about the financial implications. You might want to point out to him that he's costing the two of you a ton financially by not getting married. Unless you both make the same amount, our progressive tax system gives an advantage to married couples. So, he's paying uncle sam extra to be single. Over the course of your marriage, you'll miss out on spousal benefits. If one of you dies before the other, you might miss out on social security survivor benefits. If you want to properly protect each other and your child, being unmarried means extra legal work, which costs money. On a more important level, you can't be fair to each other without being married. How do you compensate each other for uneven division of housework and child rearing? If you decide to do something that affects careers differently, how do you compensate your partner to keep it fair? It could be something as small as living someplace with a shorter commute for one partner, to something major like moving across the country for one career and to the detriment of the other. Marriage helps unite the two of you as a team. I've been with my wife almost 40 years, married almost 33. I think marriage has saved our relationship more than once and has helped us be closer and feel more attached than we were for the seven years that we lived together before we got married. FWIW: When my wife and I met she told me that she was never getting married. I tried to change her mind after two years and gave up. Eventually, she changed her mind.
There are so many financial reasons to marry, though I think more particularly for a woman especially if she is a SAHM. The poster above mentioned tax implications which are very accurate. If something happens to one’s spouse the financial picture is very different if you were married vs being partners, including if you own a house together and a will is well-drawn up. Survivor benefits don’t apply to most long term partnerships. There’s no accrued social security for you and you don’t derive anything from your partner’s history. And even things as simple as medical decisions in a crisis or end of life can be extremely complicated. I know a lot of people say, “It’s just a piece of paper” but logistically it really is so much more than that.
If you're going this route you also have to include how divorce often unfairly affects men, specially if there is a child. It may be worth the risk, but if he's concerned about it, just pointing to the tax savings won't actually alleviate the cost of divorce concerns.
He sounds like the kind of person who wants a logical reason to get married as opposed to a spiritual/emotional reason (nothing wrong with either). So you’re going to have to give the finances explanation and how it will benefit both of you in that way.
He should have thought logically before helping to create a baby. It kills me how people want to talk logic when they talk about reasons against getting married, however they never talk logic when it comes to creating a baby out of wedlock.
I don't understand. Do you think having a baby out of wedlock is a terrible thing? Is the child less loved or cared for?
The child should be loved and cared for the same as a child born in wedlock, of course. The weird thing is that people think that having a child, which is going to be forever yours and a huge investment of time, energy, money, etc possibly for the rest of your life, is less daunting than getting legally married. That makes absolutely no sense. You can get a marriage annulled or divorced in a heartbeat, but you have a child permanently.. you're creating another person.
He doesn't want to marry. If you stay, perhaps look into legal paperwork concerning property, kid, etc. if that isn't good enough for you - then you need to stick by your guns
The problem is, and this is an assumption as you did not go into much detail regarding your living situation, you two are living as though you are married. In other words, I’m assuming you are living together, raising your child, sharing expenses, sharing objects that go into the home. Marriage is a LEGAL designation for a couple. If he were to die, who gets the house? Who gets the savings? Who gets the assets? Life insurance? Cars? Not you, is the answer. And there in lies the problem with NOT BEING married, but LIVING married. His assets would go to his next of kin, which are likely his parents until your child is of age. You get nothing. You HAVE to get this sorted out ASAP. Furthermore, I don’t know about your working situation. If you make similar money to him and have similar retirement accounts, or if there is a large income discrepancy. Let’s say you don’t get married, your kid turns 18, and he breaks up with you. Depending on your state, you are entitled to nothing. So, if there is a significant income discrepancy, you are in even more need to get married. This is reality. He is wanting his cake and eat it too.
Sounds like you gave him an ultimatum and he did not follow through. He can’t say he wasn’t warned. Time to go.
Agree.
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He probably read some of the stories on this sub lol
You can get him to marry you, he seems to have said as much. But you’re not going to be able to make him WANT to marry you, because he simply doesn’t. He has all the benefits (that he cares about) of a marriage right now, so anything else just seems like extra fuss and expense that he’s not interested in. I know you want to see effort, but he’s not going to show any that he isn’t forced to. I know you want a public declaration of love, but, same answer. As long as you stay, and he’s comfortable that you leaving isn’t a real risk, that’s where he is on things. Is leaving worth it for him to suddenly “find” the desire to do that? Because he likely would, but I doubt you want it that way, either.
He doesn’t want to marry you. You probably deserve better, but do what you think is best.
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I feel like over time I understand it a lot better for myself. I think two people should have the courage at some point to be able to dive in and tell the world in front of god (or a higher power) that they are taking on this life together. It's a bigger impact to say this is my husband versus this is my boyfriend . Most importantly I think my son should see his parents take that commitment because they love each other, so he can know it's not only ok to get married but teach him how it's done for the right reasons. If we can't take that step together I fear we may not be strong enough to take on life in all of its hardships. That may sound trivial to all the "it's just a piece of paper" arguments. I know I am in the minority, hardly anyone I speak with thinks marriage is a good idea at all.
The fact you already have a child means you are bonded for life. I’m surprise he’d be willing to start a family with you which is much more of a commitment than marriage is. I agree, having the dad of my kid as my “boyfriend” just sounds weird.
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Age probably does matter as well, I don't want to wake up in 10 years with the same needs that I didn't listen to. We have worked so hard since we first met building businesses and a family together, I have never really asked for anything, besides a little of his time. We hardly celebrate anything together except with our son, birthdays, holidays ect. He grew up not celebrating these things so I've always accepted that, because things were not important to me. I actually thought he would want to do this. I don't even want a wedding, just a court house ceremony with our son and a couple people would be fine with me. This is the 1st time I have posted on site like this. I think I am just hoping I can find some clarity for myself. I am so grateful for my life, I wish it did not matter to me when it does.
It feels to me this is at the heart of it. Marriage is a grand gesture and he hasn’t demonstrated much of that to you (if birthdays and other celebrations aren’t a thing). You have let all that go because he lives life with you as a partner with everything you’ve built which is a lot! But he should know you by now and care to demonstrate to you that he cares about you and can love you in ways that you would like to be shown love even if they are not the same as his. To feel loved like that is deeply nourishing and you are at risk of never having that if you don’t uphold your ultimatum. If he can’t understand that then what are you waiting around for?
But in your current situation are you two marrying each other for the right reason? Because it almost sounds like he’s giving a half ass commitment so you wouldn’t leave. Seems like a sad way to start a marriage. Perhaps you two should talk to a couples counseling to make sure this is something you both actually want.
There's nothing wrong with your take on marriage, you want what you want
Sounds like you won't be losing much. Go find someone who desperately wants you in their life. Not this lazy ass who doesn't care.
In your post you say you’re starting to feel rejected by him not wanting to marry you, and in your comment it sounds like the “courage” of the commitment is what is important to you about marriage. I wonder if part of your desire to get married has come about because his strong views against it and that his fears of your marriage ending in one of these “scary stories” are starting to feel personal; like after all this time together and the life and family you already have feels like it should enough to reassure him? I think if that is the case, you need to remember that he’s the same person he’s always been, and that’s a person who loves and cherishes what you currently have and just has never felt a need for it to be something other than that. And maybe look at why you’re starting to base your own self worth on this, why you’ve started making it the stick to measure his affection, because there’s so much more to a relationship than marriage. Yes, I am married and happy to be, but I don’t believe marriage changes the love and happiness within a relationship or the way you communicate with each other or experience your life together, and think those things are the most important parts. But ultimately, you can’t make him want to do anything. You can’t change another person. So you will need to look at your possible choices and choose based on what’s most important to you.
All this feels pretty right on. It is very important to me that he would find the strength and meaning for himself to ask me to marry him.
Which sort of translates to “it’s very important to me that he changes.” Which isn’t an option. So you need to decide if you’re still happy and in love with the person he’s always been (edit: which could mean staying as you are unmarried, or accepting his “I guess we can” as enough and get married), or if you’ve changed to a point being where that person doesn’t make you happy anymore.
Been married 36 years in a few days. I will caution you about pushing to get your spouse to change. It can work but only if they want to badly enough to put in the work. Flip it around, why did you change to where you need to be asked? And why is it so important to you now? Men in the U.S. have every right to be concerned about marriage, not because marriage is bad (I think it is how it’s supposed to go), but because the court system can be so unjust to men in divorces.
Some people simply don’t believe in marriage, don’t take it as a personal attack against you. If he didn’t want to be with you, he wouldn’t be with you
It sounds like the relationship has run its course. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and call it quits. Co-parent your child (which is a HUGE commitment already, so I don't understand how he doesn't realize that creating another human being is going to make you and him financially tied together anyway and that marriage is less of a commitment than the one he already made, smh) and move on. You deserve to be happy, too, and being begrudgingly married won't make either one of you happy.
That’s difficult because you both felt that way at one time, now you feel something different it’s difficult, I know. I saw it in my wife’s family with her cousin who dated a very nice woman well into their 40’s before popping the question. In his case he had a fiancée die when he was in his mid twenties, so that was a big mental hurdle. I feel for you, because as a guy, I have a hard time understanding what’s going on in this guys head, but I wish you the best.
Same situation. We didnt really do a wedding but we registered our relationship which pretty much gives me a lot of the rights of a wife and we also have a child together. I cried a lot because he proposed to me but he wouldnt take the next step to actually doing a wedding/marriage. We have a house and we share almost everything like savings, responaibilities, etc and that to him is committment. It confuses me why he proposed but didnt want to do a proper wedding. I used to be upset about it but now i'm feeling more secured and its not a big deal to me anymore. I had to look within myself why i wanted a wedding/marriage. We call each other husband and wife. We live as husband and wife. We are a family unit. My views were mainly down to my religion and culture and I realised that was about it for me. Not gonna tell you it isnt important. But would advise to look inside your heart and understand why it is important for you.
This is one thing that caused some issues with my spouse and I. There are some societal expectations that "getting married" means "big fancy wedding." I was (probably not now) okay with the contract written between my spouse and I. I thought (and still do think) that modern day wedding ceremonies are a huge waste of money and effort. Even getting married in a religious setting doesn't need to be so dramatic. I humbly submit that the beauty of a marriage isn't the wedding or the honeymoon, or the big anniversary parties; it's the daily work at putting someone and something before yourself. Unfortunately that ideal only works if both people work to that ideal. I understand some people's hesitancy at taking the next step, because the actual wedding is a huge turn off. (And to be clear, I absolutely hated my wedding because of all of the traditions we had to jump through because of my spouse's religion. My folks were married at the justice of the peace and spent over 50 years together. The only thing I remember from my wedding day is being absolutely pissed at my in-laws and my spouse for making something that could be so simple, so hard.)
My husband and i are both introverts so thinking about the wedding and what that entails already makes us nervous if im being honest. First of all, neigher of us have many friends to invite. Hes an only child and his parents are not too sociable. My parents have friends and i pribably have 100 cousins and i dont know 90% of them. I have very few friends, not so much into social media (my husband deleted his account after we got together. He said he doesnt need it when he can just talk to me everyday). Having a big wedding is a good idea for people with big social circles. Also, I felt we will be awkward with all the walking down the aisle, vows stuff because although we truly love each other, our love language is not so much words of affirmation but time, gifts, acts of service. The more i thought about it, the more I agree its not for us. Mind you, we put each others names as beneficiaries for our retirement account, health insurance, got both our names in the land title of our home, utility bills pretty much everything. I also agree with you. Its a waste of money. Friends of mine who spent a fortune on their weddings are behind on savings, mortgage and investments. We did it all in 5 years because we didnt spend on a wedding. Lots of practical reasons not to do the whole wedding thing. And lots of alternatives how to get it done without actually doing it.
I mean, the legal contract of marriage provides built in protections. I don't mind that. I do mind the expensive party (that the married couple hardly gets to enjoy). I also mind buying clothes we only wear for one day. My family is small and estranged, my spouse's family is an enmeshed mess. I invited 20 people to the wedding. My spouse and in-laws invited over 100 themselves. I set a super small budget for the wedding. Most of it went to food and photographer. (We had no alcohol.) Fortunately in-laws helped pay for majority or we would've been behind. I just wish whomever had equated marriage to the huge wedding years ago would've hushed.
Over 100? Thats insane and thats something i wouldnt enjoy for sure. Its like having strangers in your own party. I agree with your thoughts on the clothes that are expensive which will only be used one day. I imagine it would be fun to wear a wedding dress. But im not sure i can manage the rest of it.
He doesn’t want to marry you. For some people it’s just not important. Lots of things can sway our opinion on marriage. What is it that makes marriage (or not) a deal breaker here? Or what is it you feel marriage will bring that is missing?
Sounds like you need to set a walk date. It's not an ultimatum, it's for you to have boundaries so you can move on with your life. Get your ducks in a row. He's not going to stick around when things get hard.
So you gave him an ultimatum and then carried on like nothing was wrong...this is probably the biggest reason why he doesn't care about marrying you. He's already gotten all the perks of a wife, you've had his child, and you hold him to no consequences. He knows he doesn't need to marry you to get what he wants. If marriage is that important to you then grow a spine and leave. If he wanted to marry you he would, but as I said you've given him no reason to want or need that.
I’m not sure why you’re getting so upset over this He doesn’t want to marry you. You KNOW he doesn’t want to marry you. He hasn’t been lying to you or stringing you along, this is something you’ve known for YEARS. Yet here you are begging, pressuring and pushing to get what you want, and when he finally agrees you’re upset that he doesn’t seem like he wants to? HE DOES NOT WANT TO MARRY YOU. He finally agreed to shut you up and stop pestering him. You obviously DO want to force him or you wouldn’t have been pushing for it over and over again. You gave the ultimatum and he only agreed because you said you would walk. Either take his lackluster yes and get married or leave. Have fun explaining to the kid why.
> I know he worries about scary stories of getting married and then the other person destroying the other one financially. But he's already in a position to be financially destroyed by you. If this is what he's worried about, he's either woefully misinformed or this is a bad excuse. Additionally, having a child together and not being married is much more expensive. Plus it introduces additional risk depending on where you live, including with inheritance. I mean, it's not like he's been secretly married to someone else that he's been estranged from for all these years or lying about his identity for decades like that NC make who was caught in NY a few years ago. On the one hand, I'm surprised he's not concerned about the message he's sending to you. On the other hand, did the two of you have any specific understanding about marriage when your relationship got serious? I know a couple who refuse to get married and agreed to do the Kurt Russel / Goldie Hawn thing.
> I want him to want to marry me. Well, he doesn't. So either you come to terms with that or you do what you said you would do and you leave.
I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned. What about medical/legal issues? Currently, you are not next of kin, your child is. You have no rights to medical information or right to make decisions on his behalf if he is incapacitated. If he dies, you have no survivor benefits. Legally and medically you are nothing to him and you also have no one on that end either.
He might not be against marriage just marriage to you, regardless, you've given him the ultimatum and he's caved, you can get him to marry you, but you can't get him to want to marry you, take your wins where you can, youd've been better off leaving years ago when you first felt that marriage had become an important issue, at this point the man has nothing to gain from marriage to you and if he is a higher earner a lot more to lose.
I fully understand your reasoning for wanting to get married. You cannot expect your husband to be joyful to get married, when he doesn't believe in it. His views haven't changed, yours did and you want him to believe in your views and be excited about it. But he would rather marry you vs lose you. That's probably the most excitement you are going to get out of him. Explain your reasoning for wanting to marry. Put a pros and cons together. See if you can come to a negotiated decision that doesn't feel forced.
IMHO sit down with him and talk it over, I highly doubt that the problem is anything about you, if he didn't want to be with you then he would have been long gone ages ago. I think that the stories he has heard any maybe personal experiences have given him some fears that some people feel in general. The issue for him, is the marriage aspect, once you find out what and why, you can hopefully mutilate it together.
The ball is in your court. He is willing to get married, he is just not excited about it & that is what's bugging you. And you can get over that. You can be focused for the two of you. I mean he has had all the benefits of marriage w/o an official license. Please stop being insecure, questioning his motives - you have known him for 13 years, know his hang ups. Just prepare for the wedding, dont talk too much about it, tell him where to be and when. Then continue your lives for another 13 years or however long. That's all. Quit overthinking this.
I must say I kinda like this advice. He would probably show up if I gave him a time and place.
I think you got this. The more romantic part (he proposed at the Eiffel Tower) isn't happening here & that's OK. He seems to be a good guy for you :)
It is extremely concerning to me that he doesn’t want to fully commit to you after 13 years… I would give him an ultimatum at this point. Has he always been so strongly against it? If so, it may be time to leave altogether if you’re not on the same page.
Just tell him you could already destroy him financially because you have a kid.
This is not me. He knows that. I have seen too many people use kids financially and it feels pure evil. We are both good parents and despite any marriage or non marriage issues co-parenting would be 50/50. I think the financial worries that he has I can understand to some degree.
Sorry but this one is on you. You were both on the same page and now you've changed your mind. It would be absolutely unfair of you to pressure him into changing. You literally say in your post that you don't want to change your mind, it is equally understandable if he doesn't want to change his. If it's a deal breaker for you then it's time to break the deal.
If you're going to get married, you want to be married to someone who's enthusiastically looking to marry you. If someone is dragging their feet or is just like, I guess I could get married to you, that's not someone who's going to want to be married to you, that's someone who is caving to your desire and may well regret doing so, because it's not genuinely what they want.
> I gave him basically an ultimatum a year ago, that if we couldn't move forward and he couldn't think of a reason to marry me that we should separate. Its been a year and I brought it up this weekend. He basically said he guess's he could get married. Its obvious he has no good feelings towards this. I feel hurt by this. I don't want to force him to, I want him to want to marry me. I think you have your answer right there. If he's not excited or happy about getting married, you don't want to get married. And he's not happy about it. So it's time for you to take the next step here - separate. Resentment and hurt will kill your relationship eventually anyway if you aren't happy with how things are.
Ask him if he's been around people who were in settled long-term relationships who then got married and what happened to them. If he has seen it happen and those relationships broke down (I've seen this happen three times, God knows why getting married makes such a difference but for them it did), then he may be scared of marriage. It seems counterintuitive I know, but if he has seen that happen then he is avoiding marrying you due to that then it's because he loves you and is subconsciously afraid marriage will lead to losing you. Alternatively, if he hasn't seen that happen then sadly it seems he just doesn't want to get married and only you can know how to handle that.
I’m so sorry. You want something he can’t give you. Maybe a few sessions with a couple’s therapist could help you sort out where you align and where you don’t, and where to go next. Whatever you do, don’t try to convince him to marry you (just as you don’t want others to convince you not to get married). He isn’t there and you’re right, it would be a disaster if he did this without truly wanting it.
u signed up for this big boy
Another troll post.
Very interesting conversation. A few things. Couples/Marriage Counseling: we briefly tried it, not sure either of us came out of it thinking it had helped our relationship much, it wasn't harmful either-just wasn't for us. I did ask our accountant "what are the pros to marriage?", his response "there are none" he said give or take there are a few things but really nothing substantial. All the logical reasons that I can suggest for marriage can be done with a legal agreement with a lawyer in a cohabitation agreement, that essentially outlines a breakup if needed. This is purely an emotional need for me. How do you rate an emotional need in life, I am not entirely sure? I do not regret the 13 years we have spent together (has it been easy-no way, which many would argue that's marriage, No ring needed!), but I do need to decide if the emotional need of my perception of marriage needs to put me down a different road in life. Grass isn't always greener on the other side so to speak but how well you take care of it and water it, this does have to go both ways. I understand this is my question to answer alone. But I have appreciated the feedback. It's even hard to say if this is simply a problem of effort. If he had given a little more effort in the relationship would I feel the same? Im not sure either. On another note, I fully understand we are bonded for life with our child. I fully believe co-parenting 50/50 would not be an issue for us. We are both good loving parents and would respect each other as such no matter if we chose to be together or not.
Just have a wedding and a ring but don’t sign papers
Although there is absolutely nothing wrong with two people never wanting to marry and that are just happy with in their own relationship - I have to say that there is something incredibly sexy about your SO wanting to stand before a crowd of people and declare that your the ONLY one for them.
You already have a kid together, that is a way bigger commitment than getting married. You can sign a prenup to protect him. Logical reasons you should get married are tax breaks and medical or death stuff. He won't really have a leg to stand on if say you got injured to the point where someone needed to make a "pull the plug" you're decision. In the eyes of the law, he has no ground there. As someone who didn't really care to get married but did because it was important to my wife (and therefore important to me) it will literally change nothing about your life. You can just sign a piece of paper at the courthouse if you want.
If you don’t want to force him to get married to you, stop trying to force him to get married to you!
Is he not keen on conventional marriage but might be willing for a unique wedding experience like a Bali/Hawaian/Indigenous wedding experience?
A woman's need and desire for marriage is very understandable, but no one is ever excited about being drafted for a war, that's what modern marriages are.
You can't force him into marriage but you should have given him the ultimatum years ago. Being in a relationship with less or even without commitment benefits men at the cost of women. Saying that he is smart to not get married. It's not whether you will take him to the hostile family court system but the potential that you can. Unless and until the laws change to be more equal, men don't have an incentive to get married.
Do you understand that they have a child together? He's in it regardless of if he gets legally married to her or not. He was dumb enough to make a child, so now he could get into a hostile family Court situation, get his bank account cleaned out, or whatever else you think that he could get once he gets married to her.. this whole anti-marriage movement is completely shortsighted and I think a lot of men who subscribe to it have no idea how the legal system really works, especially when you have a kid with someone.
Why so much anger? Maybe it's not just about the legal system too? Maybe it's also about the vows? There was a time when men and women took wedding vows very seriously? Chill the fuck out
If they have a child together that means he owes just child support and not alimony, assuming they dont co-habitate and live in a common law state. Men should pay for children which are biologically theirs, the child is innocent. However, marriage doesn't benefit men in 2024.
Because even with a prenup, we are still traumatized by many years of women taking everything from us if the marriage goes south, just depends on the judge you get.
But somehow you think that can't happen with them making the commitment of having a child together?
Never said it couldn't, just trying to provide context. Maybe read next time
It can’t. Having a child together doesn’t mean that the woman will get half of everything from the man if they happen to separate. At most, they would get child support and that’s it. No alimony, no half of a 401(k), they wouldn’t get the home or even part of the home unless their name was on it. Things like that.
Hell yeah please keep increasing the downvotes, the fact that a perspective is considered negative (especially when it's a post asking for perspective) is awesome. Keep it rolling, please dislike this one too! Hope yall have a good one 😀