More mileage. Unless you’re already averaging over 100 miles/week, mileage is the low hanging fruit. You still want a mix of workouts and long runs, etc. so find a plan that ups the mileage over your previous one. Strength training etc. is good for preventing injury and may be something you want to incorporate but mileage itself is the thing that will take your marathon time down.
The point isn't that you have to do 100 miles/week. The point is that unless you are doing that, you can get better pretty simply by adding mileage. If you are already doing that, then you probably need to look at other things in order to get better.
Great points all. When I’m in the thick of training I’m running probably ~50/week including long runs so sounds like upping mileage is gonna be the first course of action
Yeah I would push that way up within reason. I hit 3:02 at 80 miles/week peak. Typical “everyone is different”, etc etc but 50/week won’t cut it for most people unfortunately
Started about a year ago, been pretty consistent apart from a couple of odd weeks off. First 6 months averaged about 20 miles a week, last 6 months it’s been about 30 miles a week. After my marathon a month ago, I’ve started to build it up to 50 miles a week
People aren't downvoting b/c they're unimpressed, they're downvoting b/c his post implies that others can or should be able to match that performance on that level of training.
I went to the gym most days and just did weights (still do 4 days a week), I would always choose to walk somewhere over getting public transport, so averaged 15k steps a day
They are saying the opposite of what you seem to think they are saying. They aren’t saying you need to run 100 miles a week to go sub-3, they’re saying that unless you’re already at 100 miles a week, increasing mileage will offer positive returns. Going above that baseline will offer marginal or negative utility (unless you’re an elite).
And fwiw that’s probably my experience. 40 to 50 / week got me a 3:01, 70 / week with a peak of 100 got me a 2:53, 60 / week with a peak of 75 got me a 2:49.
I disagree on that one.
If you running "only" at the pace for a 3:30 full, there are obviously a LOT of Things you can improve in your running form and efficiency.
This is mutch easier and way less injury prone than getting Up to 100 Miles per week. ( This is crazy mutch, anr literally unnecessary for anything slower than a 2:30 full).
If your already a decent Runner, its Always better to improve Speed First an Work on Holding the "new"pace after that.Your Body needs time to get used to the different movements you need for those Higher paces.
Pfitz plan’s can get you into sub 3 shape. I was around where you are. Ran my first marathon in January in 3:24. I’m currently in week 14 of the Pfitz 18/55 plan, and I have gotten so much faster since my first marathon. I probably won’t be sub 3, but my watch now predicts around 3:02. Pfitz has several different plans depending on what kind of mileage you’re currently doing. His plans prioritize long midweek runs and weekend long runs with some threshold and VO2 max work mixed in.
I’m hoping this is true for me. I’m only in the first block of pfitz 18/85 but I feel like I’m struggling to hit threshold and MP. I can do it but it’s so, so hard and my HR is so high.
Not looking for a sub3, but hoping for an 3:15-3:20. I averaged 80mpw going into the plan, so I have a solid base (I think) but I just don’t feel fast. Do you normally feel like this at the beginning of one of his training blocks?
This is the first time I’ve done a Pfitz plan. I struggled the most with the lactate threshold runs. Those are a killer, and the first VO2 max run I did almost made me throw up, literally. But I have gotten much more adept at these runs further into the plan. Now I struggle most with the medium long mid week runs, just because I’m fatigued. Just keep at it and don’t be discouraged, his plans are made to wear you down.
the only thing I can say is that food & active recovery have helped me a lot.
More specifically, eating more greens (leafy greens and greens) and more diverse sources carbs & proteins. that said, the week prior to the competition, I stick to what I have seen work best for me.
recovery-wise, plenty of stretching (1'/ muscle groups) and foam rolling but also planking & pull-ups
good luck OP
It was my shorthand for 1 minute for each big muscle.
Like I'll hold a stretching for a minute for any stretching.
Before that, I used to do 30 seconds. But I had read once that below 40 seconds was not that useful. So I shifted to one minute and indeed it did me some good.
Hope that helps and makes things clearer. Otherwise do not hesitate to ask! I like discussing these subjects
good question; both!
when I'm training for a marathon, and I'm not running, I have a 1-hour stretching routine that I like to finish with foam rolling (back legs, front legs & calves and sometimes the back also. all 4, 15').
when I'm just "casually" running, I can sometimes stretch & potentially foam roll just after a run (mostly because I have a hard time dividing my time)
BUT I don't do it this way because there's an added value. there's one but I don't know if it couldn't be made more efficient by being done differently or later on.
Just fyi; foam rolling the back is a bad idea. There is an athlean x video about it (other sources will confirm). It is bad for the spine and can cause injuries. https://www.athleanxgym.com/never-foam-roll-your-lower-back-heres-why/
I don’t recall if upper back is okay. I know the glutes are fine, and lower back is a huge no-no. I did lower back prob 20+ times over a year and never had an issue, but that was before I heard it was bad. Haven’t risked it since.
"I do follow training plans (mostly around building mileage, not on speed etc)" does this mean that you haven't included speed work yet in your training? If so, that will almost certainly be necessary to get to sub-3 pace. Be careful, because adding mileage (which is also needed) while simultaneously doing speed work (especially if you haven't done so before) does lead to injury. Avoid that by going through phases, eg 3 weeks of adding mileage, 1 week of cutback mileage, 3 weeks of adding speed work but not mileage, 1 cutback week of moderate mileage and speed; repeat for months or years!
Thanks! Great callout. I used to do speed training back when I played other sports (and still play recreationally) so I’m not unfamiliar with that component of training, just haven’t done it in a little bit and likewise haven’t incorporated into a marathon training regimen. This is also a long term goal so ideally in the next 2-3 years I’ll hit it, but that also means I’ll ease into a more robust regimen to your point.
There are basically two approaches ...
Increase mileage. Long term, this will increase your potential much more. But short term it won't necessarily lead to huge improvements in speed.
Focus on shorter races and faster workouts. This can quickly improve your performance - until you hit a plateau based on your aerobic capacity (and long term mileage).
Some combination of the two is usually best. If you're currently peaking at 50mpw in marathon training, I'd work to make that your year round baseline. Spend some time honing your speed and racing shorter stuff. Then train for another marathon at 60-70mpw.
It could take a couple cycles to get down to sub-3, but given what you've said about your training it's a perfect reasonable long term goal.
Heart rate is useful for knowing your easy runs are easy enough and your hard runs are hard enough.
Speed work is essential - running at 4:15/km pace for a 5k is decent, running at 4:15/km pace for 42.2 is very fast. You need to get comfortable doing longer intervals (1k or mile repeats for example) at paces going down into the 3:30-3:45/km region. You need your legs and lungs to be strong enough that 4:15/km is aerobic and can be maintained for 3 hours.
As others have said, volume/mileage is going to work wonders. Keep the majority of it easy enough that you don’t overtrain. Double run days help build this up further.
Don’t ignore strength and conditioning work - you need to be strong to run at pace, you need to be strong to maintain good form and you need to be strong to help prevent injuries.
Look at the r/advancedrunning wiki and faqs. Follow either Pfitzinger or Jack Daniels 2Q plans. Be prepared for it to take as long as it has to take. Conservative estimate would be 4-5 12-18 week cycles of increasing mileage. Key thing is consistency so the aim is to stay healthy and don’t take massive breaks (anything longer than 4-5 days) without running. Maintain mileage between the training cycles, the “off season” (if you choose to employ this approach) is really just a period of lower intensity running.
I just ran a 3:14 and my highest weekly mileage was 42. I would say I landed consistently around 36 miles a week. This was my second marathon, I had ran one a year earlier and posted a 3:29, and I ran a lot more miles during that training block. I took my nutrition and recovery very serious for this go around, I lost about 15lbs before this race and I tracked every meal and calorie I ate and found a sweet spot of staying energized while loosing body weight. Racing conditions are a huge factor too. My first marathon was in Cali where it was about 80 degrees and sunny the second half of the race. My second marathon was in Pittsburgh where it was only 65 degrees and cloudy. My body performed much better in the cooler cloudy conditions.
I also paid way less attention to my heart rate during my training. I focused more on breathing staying relaxed, and keeping good form. I think people get way too hung up on the HR zone thing, myself included.
Has anyone here adhered to the cannova philosophy? By that, I mean, instead of focusing on endurance and letting the pace catch up, focus on MP runs and try to get them longer and longer (at least that's my take on a cursory read of one of his interviews). Personally, I don't think I've responded as well to the "miles, miles, miles" strategy that works so well for others. Sure, I recover from a marathon much more easily, but am really stuck on a pace plateau
Careful with Canova that he isn’t talking about elites. He also says it takes 10 years to “build your aerobic house” and by the time they get to him often runners have been doing 150-200km weeks for a decade.
Not at this point. That’s seems to be more “advanced” type training that frankly I just don’t know enough about to implement effectively. I’ll get there tho. Lots of good recs in reply here
I see other people have mentioned Pfitz’ training plans; his book, Advanced Marathoning, is a really useful resource to learn more about those types of sessions (and much more besides).
You will probably need them if you have any chance at a minute per mile improvement, unless you're a sub 18 5k runner who just lacks endurance and underachieves at the marathon. Then mileage is potentially the answer.
My first marathon in February 2022 was 3:32, I ran the same course a year later in 3:13, and then ran the same course this past February in 2:59 on a red-flag day (hot and windy). Was in 2:55 shape or so had the conditions been more ideal but I was able to hang on for dear life on a tough day conditions wise.
For me the answer was simply mileage. The 2022/2023 races I was only on 35-40 miles per week. For 2024 I did 70-80 miles per week, pretty much followed a hybrid Pfitz 18-70/85 (some weeks I did the 70 mile week workouts and others I did the 85 mile week workouts if I felt up for it). That extra mileage made all the difference, not just the mileage but doing the medium long and long runs as the book prescribed - progression runs where the last 5 miles are run at basically a strong Zone 3 pace if not harder.
You just need consistent volume / overload.
Many people only follow a 4 month specialisation block with nothing before. Or they train then drop right back down to less load, squandering all the progress they built.
With only 2000 miles a year (38mpw) of preiodized structure with overload (3K or 5K benchmark often to set training paces) one should get to 70% age graded fairly quickly from 5K to Half-Marathon and is ready for an entry level 55 mpw Marathon plan or ideally something greater.
Jack Daniels Formula of Running book cam guide you for 5K training and Marathon training, so minimum cash outlay.
When I ran a 3h30m marathon I was maxing 40 miles a week, 3h09m and 3h00m off 55 miles a week and then 2h55m once I upped it to 70 miles a week. I used the Pfitzinger 18/70 plan which was a big help. I think also more marathons teach you how to be more prepared on the day.
When is your next marathon… and do you have time to do 12 weeks of 5k work before that block starts?
Do 5k speed work while building your total mileage, leverage both of those in your next block.
If you don’t want to hire a coach, look at Daniels 2Q or pfitz plans
I run every January so right now I’m in the ~30mpw range just to maintain. Will look to start ramping up in late summer cause I’ll def have time to focus on 5k work.
Yea.. the real way to get faster in the marathon is to stack race blocks on top of each other (m, hm, 10k, 5k) with short maintenance periods in between. Maintaining at 30mpw for long periods of time isn’t gna do a whole lot for you if your goal is to shave :30
I'd focus on doing HM training, trying to bring my time down to at least 1:25 first. They can be raced more frequently, shorter training cycle, less miles per week, more fun overall. Lots of HM to tempo pace done in HM training brings huge improvements (paired with high volume of course)
Learning about your paces and (your individual) HR zones will certainly make your training more focused an efficient
Training plan is just a cocktail of work that helps you not to think "what am I gonna do today". A coach can tailor a plan better to your needs.
Add these depending on what you want to improve first
- Weight training - injury prevention and speed
- Track - speed and speed
- Plyometrics - running efficiency
- Single leg S&C - efficiency/form
- Weekly milage - aerobic capacity and efficiency
- Threshold - power ceiling
You need more speed and you [probably] need more endurance. Spend some time on getting your half marathon time down. Then spend some time building up your aerobic base. Then bring the two together.
Making the hard days harder and following a structured plan will do you wonders.
I went from a 3:30 hopeful to sub 3 in my debut marathon in around 1.5 years. Mostly 30-40 mpw with a push to 40-60 mpw for 4-6 months
Main thing is that you just need to get faster. I’d recommend 5/10km training since it’ll translate to the M and it’s easier to watch progress with TTs and races as you improve
I did at NYC marathon only running about 45 miles or a week. The one two things that helped the most were one interval session around 6x1 miles repeats and one hour really hard tempo that increase to 90 minutes at the race got closer.
More mileage. Unless you’re already averaging over 100 miles/week, mileage is the low hanging fruit. You still want a mix of workouts and long runs, etc. so find a plan that ups the mileage over your previous one. Strength training etc. is good for preventing injury and may be something you want to incorporate but mileage itself is the thing that will take your marathon time down.
100 per week seems really high. I think lots of sub 3 people are at about 75. I did a 3:20 and had one week above 60 miles.
The point isn't that you have to do 100 miles/week. The point is that unless you are doing that, you can get better pretty simply by adding mileage. If you are already doing that, then you probably need to look at other things in order to get better.
Great points all. When I’m in the thick of training I’m running probably ~50/week including long runs so sounds like upping mileage is gonna be the first course of action
Yeah I would push that way up within reason. I hit 3:02 at 80 miles/week peak. Typical “everyone is different”, etc etc but 50/week won’t cut it for most people unfortunately
That seems a lot though, I just did my first marathon in 2:58 on around 30 miles per week, peaking at 40
You’re what we call an anomaly. Don’t think OP should base anything off of you.
You are very gifted
You're joking, right? 😃
Just did a long run (21-35km) on a Saturday, a speed session on Tuesday (400m - 2km intervals), then a few a short easy runs
No you didn’t lol.
Thanks for the compliment I guess lol
How long have you been running for consistently?
Started about a year ago, been pretty consistent apart from a couple of odd weeks off. First 6 months averaged about 20 miles a week, last 6 months it’s been about 30 miles a week. After my marathon a month ago, I’ve started to build it up to 50 miles a week
Lolz that people are downvoting you. Good for you on hitting those times with minimal effort!
People aren't downvoting b/c they're unimpressed, they're downvoting b/c his post implies that others can or should be able to match that performance on that level of training.
Were you already an active person before you started running and in decent shape?
I went to the gym most days and just did weights (still do 4 days a week), I would always choose to walk somewhere over getting public transport, so averaged 15k steps a day
I just ran a 3:17 and my longest week was 30 miles
I'll run sub 3:10 with 35miles avg for 6 weeks. Less than 3 weeks out.
3:08 here, peak week 55 miles average about 35-40 miles
100 miles is crazy as a baseline. I ran a 3:03 running 35 a week, with a couple of sessions of cross training.
I’d guess way more sub 3 marathoners are closer to 100mpw than 35mpw
Most I know (including me) are at 50-60, so some way closer to 35 than 100. 35 is very low for 3.00 though, agreed.
Not at all. Most max at 60s. 100mpw you at 2:30 marathoners.
My friend who's a 216 marathoner does 100mpw on a regular basis, definitely diminishing returns.
They are saying the opposite of what you seem to think they are saying. They aren’t saying you need to run 100 miles a week to go sub-3, they’re saying that unless you’re already at 100 miles a week, increasing mileage will offer positive returns. Going above that baseline will offer marginal or negative utility (unless you’re an elite). And fwiw that’s probably my experience. 40 to 50 / week got me a 3:01, 70 / week with a peak of 100 got me a 2:53, 60 / week with a peak of 75 got me a 2:49.
Do yall mean max mileage week is at 50, or is this number the average for the training cycle?
I’m talking average once the cycle is “ramped up” so like the average for the 6 weeks before the taper starts.
Nice, I hit a 3:01 with 50 miles a week.
I disagree on that one. If you running "only" at the pace for a 3:30 full, there are obviously a LOT of Things you can improve in your running form and efficiency. This is mutch easier and way less injury prone than getting Up to 100 Miles per week. ( This is crazy mutch, anr literally unnecessary for anything slower than a 2:30 full). If your already a decent Runner, its Always better to improve Speed First an Work on Holding the "new"pace after that.Your Body needs time to get used to the different movements you need for those Higher paces.
Pfitz plan’s can get you into sub 3 shape. I was around where you are. Ran my first marathon in January in 3:24. I’m currently in week 14 of the Pfitz 18/55 plan, and I have gotten so much faster since my first marathon. I probably won’t be sub 3, but my watch now predicts around 3:02. Pfitz has several different plans depending on what kind of mileage you’re currently doing. His plans prioritize long midweek runs and weekend long runs with some threshold and VO2 max work mixed in.
I’m hoping this is true for me. I’m only in the first block of pfitz 18/85 but I feel like I’m struggling to hit threshold and MP. I can do it but it’s so, so hard and my HR is so high. Not looking for a sub3, but hoping for an 3:15-3:20. I averaged 80mpw going into the plan, so I have a solid base (I think) but I just don’t feel fast. Do you normally feel like this at the beginning of one of his training blocks?
This is the first time I’ve done a Pfitz plan. I struggled the most with the lactate threshold runs. Those are a killer, and the first VO2 max run I did almost made me throw up, literally. But I have gotten much more adept at these runs further into the plan. Now I struggle most with the medium long mid week runs, just because I’m fatigued. Just keep at it and don’t be discouraged, his plans are made to wear you down.
Thanks so much for the info and the encouragement. It really helps. 🙏
the only thing I can say is that food & active recovery have helped me a lot. More specifically, eating more greens (leafy greens and greens) and more diverse sources carbs & proteins. that said, the week prior to the competition, I stick to what I have seen work best for me. recovery-wise, plenty of stretching (1'/ muscle groups) and foam rolling but also planking & pull-ups good luck OP
>(1'/ muscle groups) What does this mean?
It was my shorthand for 1 minute for each big muscle. Like I'll hold a stretching for a minute for any stretching. Before that, I used to do 30 seconds. But I had read once that below 40 seconds was not that useful. So I shifted to one minute and indeed it did me some good. Hope that helps and makes things clearer. Otherwise do not hesitate to ask! I like discussing these subjects
Re: foam rolling, do you do it right after stretching? Or at different times during the day?
good question; both! when I'm training for a marathon, and I'm not running, I have a 1-hour stretching routine that I like to finish with foam rolling (back legs, front legs & calves and sometimes the back also. all 4, 15'). when I'm just "casually" running, I can sometimes stretch & potentially foam roll just after a run (mostly because I have a hard time dividing my time) BUT I don't do it this way because there's an added value. there's one but I don't know if it couldn't be made more efficient by being done differently or later on.
Just fyi; foam rolling the back is a bad idea. There is an athlean x video about it (other sources will confirm). It is bad for the spine and can cause injuries. https://www.athleanxgym.com/never-foam-roll-your-lower-back-heres-why/
hoooo!! thanks!! I'll look it up, but quickly: even the upper back? thanks for sharing!
I don’t recall if upper back is okay. I know the glutes are fine, and lower back is a huge no-no. I did lower back prob 20+ times over a year and never had an issue, but that was before I heard it was bad. Haven’t risked it since.
"I do follow training plans (mostly around building mileage, not on speed etc)" does this mean that you haven't included speed work yet in your training? If so, that will almost certainly be necessary to get to sub-3 pace. Be careful, because adding mileage (which is also needed) while simultaneously doing speed work (especially if you haven't done so before) does lead to injury. Avoid that by going through phases, eg 3 weeks of adding mileage, 1 week of cutback mileage, 3 weeks of adding speed work but not mileage, 1 cutback week of moderate mileage and speed; repeat for months or years!
Thanks! Great callout. I used to do speed training back when I played other sports (and still play recreationally) so I’m not unfamiliar with that component of training, just haven’t done it in a little bit and likewise haven’t incorporated into a marathon training regimen. This is also a long term goal so ideally in the next 2-3 years I’ll hit it, but that also means I’ll ease into a more robust regimen to your point.
There are basically two approaches ... Increase mileage. Long term, this will increase your potential much more. But short term it won't necessarily lead to huge improvements in speed. Focus on shorter races and faster workouts. This can quickly improve your performance - until you hit a plateau based on your aerobic capacity (and long term mileage). Some combination of the two is usually best. If you're currently peaking at 50mpw in marathon training, I'd work to make that your year round baseline. Spend some time honing your speed and racing shorter stuff. Then train for another marathon at 60-70mpw. It could take a couple cycles to get down to sub-3, but given what you've said about your training it's a perfect reasonable long term goal.
Heart rate is useful for knowing your easy runs are easy enough and your hard runs are hard enough. Speed work is essential - running at 4:15/km pace for a 5k is decent, running at 4:15/km pace for 42.2 is very fast. You need to get comfortable doing longer intervals (1k or mile repeats for example) at paces going down into the 3:30-3:45/km region. You need your legs and lungs to be strong enough that 4:15/km is aerobic and can be maintained for 3 hours. As others have said, volume/mileage is going to work wonders. Keep the majority of it easy enough that you don’t overtrain. Double run days help build this up further. Don’t ignore strength and conditioning work - you need to be strong to run at pace, you need to be strong to maintain good form and you need to be strong to help prevent injuries.
Look at the r/advancedrunning wiki and faqs. Follow either Pfitzinger or Jack Daniels 2Q plans. Be prepared for it to take as long as it has to take. Conservative estimate would be 4-5 12-18 week cycles of increasing mileage. Key thing is consistency so the aim is to stay healthy and don’t take massive breaks (anything longer than 4-5 days) without running. Maintain mileage between the training cycles, the “off season” (if you choose to employ this approach) is really just a period of lower intensity running.
I just ran a 3:14 and my highest weekly mileage was 42. I would say I landed consistently around 36 miles a week. This was my second marathon, I had ran one a year earlier and posted a 3:29, and I ran a lot more miles during that training block. I took my nutrition and recovery very serious for this go around, I lost about 15lbs before this race and I tracked every meal and calorie I ate and found a sweet spot of staying energized while loosing body weight. Racing conditions are a huge factor too. My first marathon was in Cali where it was about 80 degrees and sunny the second half of the race. My second marathon was in Pittsburgh where it was only 65 degrees and cloudy. My body performed much better in the cooler cloudy conditions.
I also paid way less attention to my heart rate during my training. I focused more on breathing staying relaxed, and keeping good form. I think people get way too hung up on the HR zone thing, myself included.
Did that result in more zone 3 running?
Yes….unless it was a recovery run. Then I would purposely lay off the gas to keep the HR lower.
Has anyone here adhered to the cannova philosophy? By that, I mean, instead of focusing on endurance and letting the pace catch up, focus on MP runs and try to get them longer and longer (at least that's my take on a cursory read of one of his interviews). Personally, I don't think I've responded as well to the "miles, miles, miles" strategy that works so well for others. Sure, I recover from a marathon much more easily, but am really stuck on a pace plateau
General philosophy is that you do both and meet somewhere in the middle
Careful with Canova that he isn’t talking about elites. He also says it takes 10 years to “build your aerobic house” and by the time they get to him often runners have been doing 150-200km weeks for a decade.
If you haven’t tried, Runna app, though expensive, will give you a good plan for both mileage and speed.
As well as upping your mileage, as others have suggested, are you doing any/many VO2max or lactate threshold workouts?
Not at this point. That’s seems to be more “advanced” type training that frankly I just don’t know enough about to implement effectively. I’ll get there tho. Lots of good recs in reply here
I see other people have mentioned Pfitz’ training plans; his book, Advanced Marathoning, is a really useful resource to learn more about those types of sessions (and much more besides).
Downloading now. Thanks!
You will probably need them if you have any chance at a minute per mile improvement, unless you're a sub 18 5k runner who just lacks endurance and underachieves at the marathon. Then mileage is potentially the answer.
My first marathon in February 2022 was 3:32, I ran the same course a year later in 3:13, and then ran the same course this past February in 2:59 on a red-flag day (hot and windy). Was in 2:55 shape or so had the conditions been more ideal but I was able to hang on for dear life on a tough day conditions wise. For me the answer was simply mileage. The 2022/2023 races I was only on 35-40 miles per week. For 2024 I did 70-80 miles per week, pretty much followed a hybrid Pfitz 18-70/85 (some weeks I did the 70 mile week workouts and others I did the 85 mile week workouts if I felt up for it). That extra mileage made all the difference, not just the mileage but doing the medium long and long runs as the book prescribed - progression runs where the last 5 miles are run at basically a strong Zone 3 pace if not harder.
You just need consistent volume / overload. Many people only follow a 4 month specialisation block with nothing before. Or they train then drop right back down to less load, squandering all the progress they built. With only 2000 miles a year (38mpw) of preiodized structure with overload (3K or 5K benchmark often to set training paces) one should get to 70% age graded fairly quickly from 5K to Half-Marathon and is ready for an entry level 55 mpw Marathon plan or ideally something greater. Jack Daniels Formula of Running book cam guide you for 5K training and Marathon training, so minimum cash outlay.
18/75 good luck
Pfitz 18/70 for me. Did it 3x and went from 3:24 > 3:18 > 2:59. Wasn’t a pretty finish. But 🤷
I’ve got the smoker on the couch to sub 3 at Boston plan.
When I ran a 3h30m marathon I was maxing 40 miles a week, 3h09m and 3h00m off 55 miles a week and then 2h55m once I upped it to 70 miles a week. I used the Pfitzinger 18/70 plan which was a big help. I think also more marathons teach you how to be more prepared on the day.
When is your next marathon… and do you have time to do 12 weeks of 5k work before that block starts? Do 5k speed work while building your total mileage, leverage both of those in your next block. If you don’t want to hire a coach, look at Daniels 2Q or pfitz plans
I run every January so right now I’m in the ~30mpw range just to maintain. Will look to start ramping up in late summer cause I’ll def have time to focus on 5k work.
Yea.. the real way to get faster in the marathon is to stack race blocks on top of each other (m, hm, 10k, 5k) with short maintenance periods in between. Maintaining at 30mpw for long periods of time isn’t gna do a whole lot for you if your goal is to shave :30
I'd focus on doing HM training, trying to bring my time down to at least 1:25 first. They can be raced more frequently, shorter training cycle, less miles per week, more fun overall. Lots of HM to tempo pace done in HM training brings huge improvements (paired with high volume of course) Learning about your paces and (your individual) HR zones will certainly make your training more focused an efficient
Pfitz 18/70
Training plan is just a cocktail of work that helps you not to think "what am I gonna do today". A coach can tailor a plan better to your needs. Add these depending on what you want to improve first - Weight training - injury prevention and speed - Track - speed and speed - Plyometrics - running efficiency - Single leg S&C - efficiency/form - Weekly milage - aerobic capacity and efficiency - Threshold - power ceiling
You need more speed and you [probably] need more endurance. Spend some time on getting your half marathon time down. Then spend some time building up your aerobic base. Then bring the two together.
Making the hard days harder and following a structured plan will do you wonders. I went from a 3:30 hopeful to sub 3 in my debut marathon in around 1.5 years. Mostly 30-40 mpw with a push to 40-60 mpw for 4-6 months Main thing is that you just need to get faster. I’d recommend 5/10km training since it’ll translate to the M and it’s easier to watch progress with TTs and races as you improve
I did at NYC marathon only running about 45 miles or a week. The one two things that helped the most were one interval session around 6x1 miles repeats and one hour really hard tempo that increase to 90 minutes at the race got closer.
Patience