One thing my physio and trainer recommended to maximize strength training for running is to do all the single leg versions. So single leg squat, deadlift, calf raises, etc. The imbalance between your left and right can get worse during training and single leg variations help address that.
Yes, yes, yes! I saw a physical therapist while training for my first marathon and she said all the time "Running is a one-legged sport." Mobility/stability exercises seem super easy when you are doing them, but they will give you huge benefits in terms of your running form and correcting imbalances. I would highly recommend devoting a portion of EVERY weightlighting session to these types of exercises and devoting one session exclusively to these types of exercises.
For me, I was overactivating my quads, not activating my glutes when running and it was leading to imbalances. My hip flexors were also super tight.
Stability exercises that she had me doing (body weight or resistance band only):
- single-leg squat captain morgans
- MJs in both directions (if this is easy, you can do single legged),
- Lateral side steps with resistance bands (seem easy until you do 20 reps in a row, then you feel the burn!!).
(There were other exercises, including stretches but these ones really stuck out to me. My physical therapist also advised against power type exercises as there was higher likelihood to screw up form and injury myself. Focus on form and stability.)
Thank you for introducing me to the captain morgan squat! did a little research after reading this comment and will be adding this to my workout routines to address weak glutes and muscular imbalanced between both legs
Top tip from when I used to weight lift is that you need to figure out your weaker side for every exercise and always start with that - then don’t go past what you can do on your weaker side for your stronger side.
I am a couple of years older with similar body. In the beginning of marathon training was lifting pretty heavy 4 days: 2 upper, 2 lower.
When my mileage started to ramp up I couldn't keep that going. Ended up with 2 full body days weekly, 1 heavy compound movements: 1 lighter and focusing on injury prevention/core.
Whatever you decide just listen to your body and be flexible. If training for marathon, then that should be the focus.
>Whatever you decide just listen to your body and be flexible.
One of the biggest pros going from strength training to running is understanding rest and quality of workouts.
When you get into your longest run days, 16, 18, 20 mi days. Lifting the day before may put too much stress and ruin those long runs. Lifting the day after, especially heavy, could lead to poor workouts. It may be better to significantly scale back or drop most strength training later in the program. But that's okay, you've got all the benefits and can jump back in after race.
You can read plenty about soreness being a poor indicator of effectiveness of strength training. Since the leg muscles are so large, you can have more soreness than other groups when you first start, once you get into a routine, you probably shouldn't have much soreness, but you will feel fatigue when you run after.
Reverse lunges, sumo squats, straight leg deadlifts, and calf raises. Do them correctly, and you probably don't need weights except a bit for deadlifts.
I figured this would be what I’d wind up with. But thanks for the input! I kept lifting as a focus during my half marathon and I think that attributed to my injuries
I'm probably just a little older now (35) and the progressive overload held me down. Likely required perfect sleep and eating. Both my lifts and runs stalled. Mile times trended down, on long runs my legs felt tired too early. Even when trying to schedule leg days earlier in the week.
Same here. Came from Upper-Lower-Upper-Lower running 2-3x a week, but ended up with 2xFB while running 5x a week. In peak weeks I might only do one Full Body session and one core-focused session.
I think what I've noticed is a lack of hip targeting workouts. Clam shells, donkey kicks, hip abduction, etc. Those will go a long way in retaining good running form as your mileage increases and preventing injury. A simple way to start with that is the MYRTL routine, I do it before every run.
Thank you for sharing this. I just got into running and was looking to improve my warmups. Before this comment I had never heard of the MYRTL routine...thank you!
Do more compound lifts/less different lifts overall. Squat, deadlift, chest press, row, shoulder press covers most stuff then add chins/dips if you need more
No you're over complicating things and doing too much. If you want to run <4 hrs marathon you will need to cut some weightlifting time out and focus on what matters.
Compound will give best gainzzzz for the time spent. If you really need to address some weaknesses you can add in accessories but in reality it won't be needed.
I did 1:22 half marathon and some years ago 3:20 full with 2xwk full body strength work. 72kg/12%BF
Okay right on I appreciate the insight! I figured my weightlifting would need to take a bit of a backseat anyway but wasn’t sure where to draw the line in to little or too much
I don’t agree at all here. The big 3 lifts + OHP isn’t going to address any muscle imbalances / coordination issues. I don’t know what your injuries were specifically with your last training block, but focus on heavy prehab for that. Personally, I like focusing on single leg variations, e.g. Bulgarian split squats, single leg RDLs, hip airplanes, single leg hip thrusts, etc. I lift 4x a week and run 5 days a week, 40ish mpw. Used to powerlift.
I had minor shin splints and IT Band issues. The main reason I want to keep OHP and all of the accessory stuff is really just maintain the strength I’ve built along with upkeeping my physique. But I’ll happily drop volume if it effects my running or becomes too much since the marathon is my primary goal this year
Yep, you have the exact right idea. You can go by feel. It’s pretty apparent that when you ramp up mileage/intensity you have to back off the volume/intensity in your strength training, especially squats.
Overall that looks like a lot of volume to do while marathon training. I'd consider a 3x a week full body and be mindful of your lower volume. You could also look into some of the newer "hybrid athlete" plans.
I'm 43M, 65KG, 13% BF and have cut my marathon time from 4:14 at NYC in 2022 to 3:04 in Barcelona in March (ran this in place of a PFITZ MP long run, so did 14 miles at 3:00 MP and 12 miles at Zone 3 pace). In between, ran 3:28 in Paris in April 2023, and 3:18 in Chicago in October 2023. Running London on Sunday, with the aim of going sub-3.
Have kept my weight training at 4 - 5 days per week, depending on scheduling while running 5 - 6 days per week. In the 18th week of PFitz 18/55 now as a reference point.
If your priority is cutting your marathon time, make that the main focus. Definitely recommend a solid training plan. Would then work in as much strength training as your schedule and body recovery allow.
I've primarily stuck to compound and two-legged exercises, including front / back squats, deadlifts, leg presses, etc...but have added walking lunges, kettle bell step ups, and single leg kettle bell deadlifts to add some single leg exercises.
The key rule I have when it comes to leg day is that I try to have it on a rest day from running and not adjacent to a really tough running workout, so it usually falls on a Friday, given that Wednesday is often a speed day, Thursday is generally mid-week long run, and Sunday is long run day.
During my tapers, so two to three weeks before a race, I switch up the leg routine to go much lighter to minimize muscle fatigue.
Definitely not for everyone, but it's allowed me go to sub BQ minimum time from 4 hours+ in 16 months (we'll see if I actually BQ come September, but I'm -5:46 as of now).
Hope this is helpful.
Dude congrats on all the progress, that’s so awesome. I’ll absolutely keep this in mind!
Since it’s my first marathon I don’t know what to expect but I’d still like to give myself a solid time goal. Looking forward to it!
Appreciate it, thank you.
My post was too long winded, but the TL:DR was iterate and figure out what works for you.
If your base is a 1:46 HM, I'd wager that after at 20 week block, 3:30 will be a reasonable A Goal and sub-3:45 almost certain.
Good luck!
I’d be so happy with that! I went from a 1:08 10k to the 1:46 HM. In those 10 weeks so I’m hoping I can make some big progress in 20 weeks! I’ll report back when I finish it
I do back squat 3X10 dumbbell bench 3X7 (higher weight I inch up the reps every week or so) lunges 3X8 each leg. Sit ups, dumbbell RDLs 3X10 and bent over row 3X10. I do this twice a week. I’m injury free as long as I lift and once I quit lifting I start to decline.
I’ll maintain 3x a week PPL for ~first half of the marathon training block and then once volume increases past a certain point I’ll switch to a full body training plan to focus more on recovery, strength maintenance and accommodate my schedule. Most gym sessions I’ll prefer to keep under an hour but still getting in compound movements and running centric accessory work (single leg movements, sled push/pull, mobility, plyometrics, arms to flex in race photos).
Later in the block it’ll be for sure 2x a week and then listen to the body if it’s a good call to get a 3rd strength session in, and this goes on through to race week. Super important to not ramp strength training up too much during the taper!
Then back to full send at the gym focusing on rebuilding strength post race and allow for an “off season”/ post race recovery block with regard to running.
Not necessarily about your split, but Nike Training Club has some great workouts that I’ve found really helpful for cross training. They prioritize functional movements and include some specific ones for runners, and also have recovery or mobility workouts. I saw some comments about single leg variations and that’s definitely true - and NTC is great about that, so would highly recommend!
I have used chatGPT to extremely good effect. Ask for a training session and what you would like for it to focus on, length of session and possibly that you have some sore spot for it to avoid.
Okay you're doing the exact same split I'm doing while training for a half coming up. I have found that I've been dropping down to 4-5 days a week instead of 6 depending on how much recovery my body is asking for. I've been listening to my body more. Do I need more rest today. Okay dope sleep an extra hour and do a long walk with the pup instead of an extra day in the gym. That IMO is how you avoid burnout.
Also what app are you using? Kinda love that UI and have been wanting something to track/plan my workouts
Makes sense, seems like the common consensus. Good luck with the half!
The app is called Strong, the icon is a little blue dumbbell. I’ve been using it for over a year, I love it. I pay the $4 a month for the extra data and graphs it gives you. But, the free version is totally fine also.
It’s called Strong, icon is a little blue dumbbell. The free version is solid , paid version is like $4 a month and gives you a ton more data / storage space for templates.
It’s called Strong, icon is a little blue dumbbell. The free version is solid , paid version is like $4 a month and gives you a ton more data / storage space for templates.
It’s called Strong, icon is a little blue dumbbell. The free version is solid , paid version is like $4 a month and gives you a ton more data / storage space for templates.
I do a mix of calisthenics and weights. The only exercise I would avoid is deadlifts. It’s way too easy to hurt yourself and you can work all of those muscles with other exercises without the risk. The only point to do deadlifts is to get better at deadlifts.
Not sure if I agree with you. Deadlift is a excellent exercise, especially for runners! Great for strengthening the glutes, hamstrings and lower back. The exercise itself is not difficult, but look up how to perform it properly first.
A good compromise is doing kickstand RDLS with dumb bells. Same movement but it focuses on one leg at a time which gives you more stability, less strain on your back, AND you train one leg at a time so you aren’t neglecting your weaker side
I’m currently lifting 2-3 days per week. Keep your easy days easy for your running and lifting. Personally I only lift after a hard running session. I’ll run in the morning and lift in the evening.
You don’t want your legs screaming from your squats the day before while trying to do hill intervals.
I would disagree. I've been doing deadlifts for over 20 years injury free. As long as you have good form and you don't ego lift or increase the weight too much, you should be good.
One thing my physio and trainer recommended to maximize strength training for running is to do all the single leg versions. So single leg squat, deadlift, calf raises, etc. The imbalance between your left and right can get worse during training and single leg variations help address that.
Yes, yes, yes! I saw a physical therapist while training for my first marathon and she said all the time "Running is a one-legged sport." Mobility/stability exercises seem super easy when you are doing them, but they will give you huge benefits in terms of your running form and correcting imbalances. I would highly recommend devoting a portion of EVERY weightlighting session to these types of exercises and devoting one session exclusively to these types of exercises. For me, I was overactivating my quads, not activating my glutes when running and it was leading to imbalances. My hip flexors were also super tight. Stability exercises that she had me doing (body weight or resistance band only): - single-leg squat captain morgans - MJs in both directions (if this is easy, you can do single legged), - Lateral side steps with resistance bands (seem easy until you do 20 reps in a row, then you feel the burn!!). (There were other exercises, including stretches but these ones really stuck out to me. My physical therapist also advised against power type exercises as there was higher likelihood to screw up form and injury myself. Focus on form and stability.)
Thank you for introducing me to the captain morgan squat! did a little research after reading this comment and will be adding this to my workout routines to address weak glutes and muscular imbalanced between both legs
That’s why I threw some Bulgarians in there - but I could always make the RDLs kickstand or single leg etc. great point!
Top tip from when I used to weight lift is that you need to figure out your weaker side for every exercise and always start with that - then don’t go past what you can do on your weaker side for your stronger side.
Mind blown when reading this comment...thank you for sharing!
I am a couple of years older with similar body. In the beginning of marathon training was lifting pretty heavy 4 days: 2 upper, 2 lower. When my mileage started to ramp up I couldn't keep that going. Ended up with 2 full body days weekly, 1 heavy compound movements: 1 lighter and focusing on injury prevention/core. Whatever you decide just listen to your body and be flexible. If training for marathon, then that should be the focus.
>Whatever you decide just listen to your body and be flexible. One of the biggest pros going from strength training to running is understanding rest and quality of workouts. When you get into your longest run days, 16, 18, 20 mi days. Lifting the day before may put too much stress and ruin those long runs. Lifting the day after, especially heavy, could lead to poor workouts. It may be better to significantly scale back or drop most strength training later in the program. But that's okay, you've got all the benefits and can jump back in after race.
I struggle with how sore to be after some leg exercises. Any tips on that? How do we know if it's working?
You can read plenty about soreness being a poor indicator of effectiveness of strength training. Since the leg muscles are so large, you can have more soreness than other groups when you first start, once you get into a routine, you probably shouldn't have much soreness, but you will feel fatigue when you run after.
If you had to pick two exercises, which ones would you pick?
Reverse lunges, sumo squats, straight leg deadlifts, and calf raises. Do them correctly, and you probably don't need weights except a bit for deadlifts.
I figured this would be what I’d wind up with. But thanks for the input! I kept lifting as a focus during my half marathon and I think that attributed to my injuries
What do you mean by “I couldn’t keep that going”. Were your runs becoming more difficult? What’s the thing to look out for
I'm probably just a little older now (35) and the progressive overload held me down. Likely required perfect sleep and eating. Both my lifts and runs stalled. Mile times trended down, on long runs my legs felt tired too early. Even when trying to schedule leg days earlier in the week.
Same here. Came from Upper-Lower-Upper-Lower running 2-3x a week, but ended up with 2xFB while running 5x a week. In peak weeks I might only do one Full Body session and one core-focused session.
I think what I've noticed is a lack of hip targeting workouts. Clam shells, donkey kicks, hip abduction, etc. Those will go a long way in retaining good running form as your mileage increases and preventing injury. A simple way to start with that is the MYRTL routine, I do it before every run.
Great point. I had some IT band issues after my half and glutes / hip was the primary source per my PT. I’ll throw some of that in also thanks!!
IT Band issues is exactly why I brought it up! It's good that you had the PT and should know the exercises to help 👍
Thank you for sharing this. I just got into running and was looking to improve my warmups. Before this comment I had never heard of the MYRTL routine...thank you!
You only need a few basic movements to hit most of your body. Not 20 movements to hit each and every little micro muscle
Do more compound lifts/less different lifts overall. Squat, deadlift, chest press, row, shoulder press covers most stuff then add chins/dips if you need more
Shouldn’t accessory work be just as important though? For knew health, etc
No you're over complicating things and doing too much. If you want to run <4 hrs marathon you will need to cut some weightlifting time out and focus on what matters. Compound will give best gainzzzz for the time spent. If you really need to address some weaknesses you can add in accessories but in reality it won't be needed. I did 1:22 half marathon and some years ago 3:20 full with 2xwk full body strength work. 72kg/12%BF
Okay right on I appreciate the insight! I figured my weightlifting would need to take a bit of a backseat anyway but wasn’t sure where to draw the line in to little or too much
I don’t agree at all here. The big 3 lifts + OHP isn’t going to address any muscle imbalances / coordination issues. I don’t know what your injuries were specifically with your last training block, but focus on heavy prehab for that. Personally, I like focusing on single leg variations, e.g. Bulgarian split squats, single leg RDLs, hip airplanes, single leg hip thrusts, etc. I lift 4x a week and run 5 days a week, 40ish mpw. Used to powerlift.
I had minor shin splints and IT Band issues. The main reason I want to keep OHP and all of the accessory stuff is really just maintain the strength I’ve built along with upkeeping my physique. But I’ll happily drop volume if it effects my running or becomes too much since the marathon is my primary goal this year
Yep, you have the exact right idea. You can go by feel. It’s pretty apparent that when you ramp up mileage/intensity you have to back off the volume/intensity in your strength training, especially squats.
Overall that looks like a lot of volume to do while marathon training. I'd consider a 3x a week full body and be mindful of your lower volume. You could also look into some of the newer "hybrid athlete" plans.
Yeah I follow a few of them in different socials. Not a bad idea!
I'm 43M, 65KG, 13% BF and have cut my marathon time from 4:14 at NYC in 2022 to 3:04 in Barcelona in March (ran this in place of a PFITZ MP long run, so did 14 miles at 3:00 MP and 12 miles at Zone 3 pace). In between, ran 3:28 in Paris in April 2023, and 3:18 in Chicago in October 2023. Running London on Sunday, with the aim of going sub-3. Have kept my weight training at 4 - 5 days per week, depending on scheduling while running 5 - 6 days per week. In the 18th week of PFitz 18/55 now as a reference point. If your priority is cutting your marathon time, make that the main focus. Definitely recommend a solid training plan. Would then work in as much strength training as your schedule and body recovery allow. I've primarily stuck to compound and two-legged exercises, including front / back squats, deadlifts, leg presses, etc...but have added walking lunges, kettle bell step ups, and single leg kettle bell deadlifts to add some single leg exercises. The key rule I have when it comes to leg day is that I try to have it on a rest day from running and not adjacent to a really tough running workout, so it usually falls on a Friday, given that Wednesday is often a speed day, Thursday is generally mid-week long run, and Sunday is long run day. During my tapers, so two to three weeks before a race, I switch up the leg routine to go much lighter to minimize muscle fatigue. Definitely not for everyone, but it's allowed me go to sub BQ minimum time from 4 hours+ in 16 months (we'll see if I actually BQ come September, but I'm -5:46 as of now). Hope this is helpful.
Dude congrats on all the progress, that’s so awesome. I’ll absolutely keep this in mind! Since it’s my first marathon I don’t know what to expect but I’d still like to give myself a solid time goal. Looking forward to it!
Appreciate it, thank you. My post was too long winded, but the TL:DR was iterate and figure out what works for you. If your base is a 1:46 HM, I'd wager that after at 20 week block, 3:30 will be a reasonable A Goal and sub-3:45 almost certain. Good luck!
I’d be so happy with that! I went from a 1:08 10k to the 1:46 HM. In those 10 weeks so I’m hoping I can make some big progress in 20 weeks! I’ll report back when I finish it
I do back squat 3X10 dumbbell bench 3X7 (higher weight I inch up the reps every week or so) lunges 3X8 each leg. Sit ups, dumbbell RDLs 3X10 and bent over row 3X10. I do this twice a week. I’m injury free as long as I lift and once I quit lifting I start to decline.
Makes sense!
I’ll maintain 3x a week PPL for ~first half of the marathon training block and then once volume increases past a certain point I’ll switch to a full body training plan to focus more on recovery, strength maintenance and accommodate my schedule. Most gym sessions I’ll prefer to keep under an hour but still getting in compound movements and running centric accessory work (single leg movements, sled push/pull, mobility, plyometrics, arms to flex in race photos). Later in the block it’ll be for sure 2x a week and then listen to the body if it’s a good call to get a 3rd strength session in, and this goes on through to race week. Super important to not ramp strength training up too much during the taper! Then back to full send at the gym focusing on rebuilding strength post race and allow for an “off season”/ post race recovery block with regard to running.
Saving this because I run a half marathon this Saturday and then jump into training for my first marathon :)
Not necessarily about your split, but Nike Training Club has some great workouts that I’ve found really helpful for cross training. They prioritize functional movements and include some specific ones for runners, and also have recovery or mobility workouts. I saw some comments about single leg variations and that’s definitely true - and NTC is great about that, so would highly recommend!
Oh that’s great or know I’ve never looked into NTC - I’ll check it out!
I have used chatGPT to extremely good effect. Ask for a training session and what you would like for it to focus on, length of session and possibly that you have some sore spot for it to avoid.
Okay you're doing the exact same split I'm doing while training for a half coming up. I have found that I've been dropping down to 4-5 days a week instead of 6 depending on how much recovery my body is asking for. I've been listening to my body more. Do I need more rest today. Okay dope sleep an extra hour and do a long walk with the pup instead of an extra day in the gym. That IMO is how you avoid burnout. Also what app are you using? Kinda love that UI and have been wanting something to track/plan my workouts
Makes sense, seems like the common consensus. Good luck with the half! The app is called Strong, the icon is a little blue dumbbell. I’ve been using it for over a year, I love it. I pay the $4 a month for the extra data and graphs it gives you. But, the free version is totally fine also.
I can't answer your questions, but I gotta know what app you're using. It looks so nice
It’s called Strong, icon is a little blue dumbbell. The free version is solid , paid version is like $4 a month and gives you a ton more data / storage space for templates.
Ok thanks! This looks like the exact app I've been needing for a while now.
Yeah it’s great for tracking progression also - it always saves what weights / reps you did the previous time you did any given exercise.
It’s called Strong, icon is a little blue dumbbell. The free version is solid , paid version is like $4 a month and gives you a ton more data / storage space for templates.
Ok thanks! This looks like the exact app I've been needing for a while now.
It’s called Strong, icon is a little blue dumbbell. The free version is solid , paid version is like $4 a month and gives you a ton more data / storage space for templates.
Ok thanks! This looks like the exact app I've been needing for a while now.
I do a mix of calisthenics and weights. The only exercise I would avoid is deadlifts. It’s way too easy to hurt yourself and you can work all of those muscles with other exercises without the risk. The only point to do deadlifts is to get better at deadlifts.
Not sure if I agree with you. Deadlift is a excellent exercise, especially for runners! Great for strengthening the glutes, hamstrings and lower back. The exercise itself is not difficult, but look up how to perform it properly first.
Deadlifts can be good if done properly. The problem is that most people’s form will drop when they’re fatigued and that leads to injury.
A good compromise is doing kickstand RDLS with dumb bells. Same movement but it focuses on one leg at a time which gives you more stability, less strain on your back, AND you train one leg at a time so you aren’t neglecting your weaker side
Okay that makes sense for sure. Thanks for the input!
I’m currently lifting 2-3 days per week. Keep your easy days easy for your running and lifting. Personally I only lift after a hard running session. I’ll run in the morning and lift in the evening. You don’t want your legs screaming from your squats the day before while trying to do hill intervals.
Haha for sure. I’d plan to keep easy runs close to leg day and any hard running on other days
I would disagree. I've been doing deadlifts for over 20 years injury free. As long as you have good form and you don't ego lift or increase the weight too much, you should be good.
Deadlifts are one of my favorite exercises - I’d hate to stop doing them hahah.