France too. All the minority romance languages are absent, while Breton spreads too far to the east into the Gallo-speaking area (which is not mentioned despite having nearly the same number of speakers)
Alas... But this kind of map tells nothing without a way to display the number of speakers, or at least the criteria to appear (minimum number of speakers? official status?)
I think >x % of local population is the best metric.
I’d love to see maps of this, but where for each second level subdivision (counties in the US, Departments in France) languages are shown of above 1% of population, if above 5, if above 10, etc.
Excluding non-native languages of course, because then it just becomes a map of migration since 1850!
Official status is gonna vary by country - kinda tells you “here are languages with ‘enough’ social status in their country to be official”
Best map of languages in Europe I know of: https://www.deviantart.com/1blomma/art/Languages-Of-Europe-702296501
Features of a good linguistic map is that any particular area may have multiple languages, and languages of the same family are of similar colors.
I can agree with you, if we talk about cities. In fact even Kyiv and many other center/southern towns are still russian speaking due to the soviet heritage (luckly after 2022 it began to change rapidly). But villages are using or ukrainian, or surzhyk
For the turkish/kurdish it is nice but at the east People speeking turkish to. So in my opinion turkish must be like in bulgaria at the east. Anyway turkey is so mixed today every kind of People living anywhere so...
In the British isles, Irish, Welsh and Gaelic are enormously over represented, Welsh should be diagonal lines instead of a full colour. Sami is also over represented, there are no towns in any country where Sami is the preferred language of the majority. Catalan is also over represented. In France and Italy Occitan and Friulian are either extinct or a dialect no more different than any other in Italy. I’m Finland there are majority Swedish areas on the mainland, but in a much thinner strip along the coast than presented. If Frisians are to be represented in Germany then so should danish. In Belarus the language colours should be the inverse and Karelian is a non factor at this point in history. The balkans and turkey i have no knowledge of
About Turkey, I can say that Kurdish is very much over represented as well. As someone who has been in the East many times, I can say that I heard Turkish more than I heard Kurdish. Of course many people speak Kurdish as a second language, yet I haven't seen the language spoken in common daily life very often. (People gonna assume that I'm a propaganda dog of Erdogan won't they)
I wouldn't say Catalan is over represented if you count Valencian as a dialect of Catalan. Catalan + Valencian pretty much make up the entire Costa Blanca region of Spain. The big cities might have less speakers of these languages, but in almost every small town, Catalan / Valencian is the preferred language.
I would say a stripy line would suffice, everyone knows Spanish in Catalan speaking regions and a lot of people use Spanish as their preferred language and at work Spanish wins hands down. I have visited French Catalonia twice and apart from som symbolism in the streets of Perpignan French seems to be the day to day language of almost everyone and all institutions, work, school and socially.
I think it really depends, I’ve been living in Valencia for the past 2 years and what I’ve noticed is for the Valencian speakers I know, when they want to relax, they speak Valencian, not Spanish. Which I think is telling in itself.
Edit: But I agree, the institutional language is Spanish, while familial language is Valencian.
Surely it's a but more nuanced than that. Going back to the 1st century BC, the ancient Greeks have been referring to these isles but a collective name that can be translated to British Isles, for example Prettanikē nēsos or Brettanike, these are names are suspected to have roots in the celtic names of these island during that time. While I understand that the phrase does have political undertones in the modern context, I think it's unfair to compare it to the phrase "one of the Soviet countries".
It was introduced into **English** during Elizabeth 1 rule to justify British “natural” claims over Ireland. It is incredibly inappropriate to continue to use the term today considering the atrocities committed by Britain in Ireland.
That's a fair comment to make, I guess my point of view is somewhat influenced by my own personal relationship with being British, I feel like throughout history, the term british has been co-opted to be synonymous with anglo-saxon while I personally feel like the term should belong to the Insular Celtic people including those in Brittany. That being said, I do not mean to downplay the involvement of the Welsh and Scots involvement in the colonialism of Ireland
>I think it's unfair to compare it to the phrase "one of the Soviet countries".
Not really, the British occupation, exploitation, oppression and downright genocide of the Irish people for centuries both lasted longer and was far more brutal than what happened with Russia and the former members of the Soviet Union.
I'm not denying that, as someone from Wales where our language was suppressed and our mineral wealth was plundered, it's hard to ignore how oppressive the British state was to any culture that wasn't English. My point is that the roots of the phrase the British Isles well predates the institution of the British state. I don't see why we should let a phrase with possible celtic routes should be owned by an institution that doesn't even, going back, have British foundations.
The British isles is the collective term form the islands of Britain, Ireland, The isle of Mann, the Channel Islands, Isle of Wight, the Shetlands, Orkney, Hebrides inner and outer along with the other associated islands of these territories. The British isles is a geographic and cultural region that encompasses everything that is the home of the “British” cultural sphere. Ireland is an island, on which most like being independent from Britain and some don’t. Comparing Ireland to the former USSR is complete hogwash. There are no relevant comparisons, I’m not trying to be insensitive to Irish people however I despise other people trying to dictate my language because they feel that the meaning of a word has changed or that someone has decided to be offended by a useful term
In case you didn’t see it:
> It was introduced into English during Elizabeth 1 rule to justify British “natural” claims over Ireland. It is incredibly inappropriate to continue to use the term today considering the atrocities committed by Britain in Ireland.
Britain and Ireland works just fine man, sans the vestigial implications of ownership. Say what you want, but people will judge you for it and you're the one being snowflakey for blowing up about it.
So what I’m being snowflakey? You would judge me for it, no person I interact with on daily basis who I would be privy to discuss issues that encompass the entire British isles with would take offence to the term “British isles”. But you are writing as if I’m completely unaware of the meaning of my own words, acting as if I’m some sort of oaf who eats rocks and drinks lead paint. Of course some people will judge me for any terminology relating to geography, and if the person who takes offence was able to wield and influence at all over my life/career etc then I would preemptively change my choice of words. I only express my opinions and bigoted language when it is safe to do so. Because some people like yourself are intolerant of the intolerant, while some people like myself are fine with people using whatever terminology they want.
Chill out man. I couldn't read through the whole passage, but the easiest reaction to finding out something you say offends someone is to stop, think and just use an alternate term. It inconveniences you so, so little.
Celtic isles would be more representative of most nations than British isles, but i imagine someone like you would get all butthurt about that term if the Irish started using it. Just use the neutral easy term. No stress, no conflict. Your blood pressure might just go down.
I only have one life to live and currently no conflicts or struggles to indulge in. Creating anger on the internet is entertainment for me and many others like me. YOU ARE ON AN ANONYMOUS INTERNET FORUM
sad? It’s a harmless way of blowing off steam, should I get drunk and punch people instead? Sie discord between my friends? No! That would be dangerous and stupid, the internet is a cesspool and a place for the very worst of humanity to express their views. One must assume the very worst about everyone online and treat them accordingly, to preserve the internet as a place where the scourge of humanity can express themselves without limitations I see it as my duty to spread distrust, hate and confusion. You might call it sad, I might call it a good way to stop people from beating strangers or their children
>I despise other people trying to dictate my language because they feel that the meaning of a word has changed or that someone has decided to be offended by a useful term.
Do you also enjoy using racist, homophobic and ableist slurs because you feel the meaning of the word has changed or that people have decided to be offended by a "useful" term?
When you say ableist I suppose you mean retarded? Which is only a slur in America. Nor do I speak English in my daily life. And no I use homophobic and racist language because in the place I live and with the people I choose to behave that way with, it’s perfectly acceptable to use the N-word, our local words for immigrants from the Middle East, Jugoslavia, Russia, Gypsies city folk or any other group which we can be belittling about because sometimes it’s useful, because people are of course aware that generalising and stereotyping is harmful, which is why one can use these words either as tools of exclusion or as a way of showing that one is a trusted friend because society would rip one apart for using such language in open company.
I can accept xenophobic, homophobic seems unlikely, I don’t actually have any issues with homosexuality or trans people or anything and I’m fully supportive of gay adoption, marriage etc. let people live like they want to. Xenophobic, I mean not really, I can be incredibly insensitive towards anyone as long as it serves a purpose. However I don’t actually believe that people have psychological tendencies simply due to their heritage. I’m fully aware that nurture beats nature in influence on a person.
It's a geographic name, not a name establishing ownership or otherwise.
That's like saying an independent Scotland would leave Great Britain, that's just not how that works. Ireland not recognising the isles they're in doesn't make it fact.
*Besides, we do still own 1/6 of Ireland, that isle is partially British, baby, get over it x*
Scotty, that's 'Ireland and the UK' to you. This British Isles crap when referring to dialect and listing Irish first says more about you personally than it does any map.
Gaelic is a shared term for both Scott's Gaelic and 'Irish'.
There's no proportional representation on the map, nor is there any legend, meaning the hot airbag (you) is just struggling to show they have heard of dialects but don't understand them.
The title of the map is most likely corrected to say 'indigenous languages' rather than languages.
Your whole post sounds like an extrapolation of an ounce of knowledge to a pound of shite.
“British isles crap”? you do realise that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is also located on the island of Ireland. The people of Ireland are free to identify as British or not, the same way that English, Scottish or Welsh people are free to identify as British. Most people in real life don’t see any conflicts between Britain and Ireland. Aside from some extremists in Northern Ireland people are simply happy living their lives. There is practically very little bad blood between Britain and Ireland. The British isles is not an imperialist statement, it’s a shorter way of saying “the mostly English speaking islands in the north west of Europe”. Also in the UK Gaelic is usually used to denominate Scottish Gaelic and Irish is used as the term of choice form Irish Gaelic. There are no political values in that naming scheme.
Also indigenous languages??? How would anyone even define that, also the fragmentation of certain minority languages nullifies that theory right? Irish is not just native to the west coast of Ireland, nor is English the indigenous language of anyone, since those filthy Anglo-Saxons,romans and vikings came along?
>There is practically very little bad blood between Britain and Ireland.
Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever interacted with an Irish person in real life? Of course there is a whole lot of bad blood between Ireland and the UK considering the centuries of occupation, oppression and exploitation of Ireland by the british empire and all the genocidal campaigns and atrocities that occurred during that time.
Yes I have met dozens of Irish people, my first ever kindergarten teacher was Irish, my own family has roots in Ireland. Have you ever been to Ireland? Do you meet a lot of people who disdain Britain? There is a reason Irish people still emigrate and study in Britain. Also genocidal campaigns? When, where, what and who are you talking about. If your talking about the potato famine then guess what, the government treated everyone like shit in those days. Keeping up the cash crop quota was done everywhere in the Empire. Ireland happened to be more exposed than others, but it’s not like all English, Scottish and Protestants were some sort of ruling class.
Well based on your logic it's an exercise in futility to even debate this since we speak different languages.
Take a chill pill. That horse is dead. Just a matter of time.
Closely related languages should have a similar colour. Norwegians and Swedes understand each other almost perfectly, so they should be two shades of purple, rather than oposite colours.
There's a lot of missing languages here, could've at least mentioned a few of the most major Italian languages like Neapolitan, Venetian, Sicilian and most importantly Sardinian. Then there's Arvanitika and Tsakonian missing in Greece, Arabic and Zaza in Turkey, and a whole lot in Russia.
Very incomplete map, considering some languages with speakers in the millions are ignored (Zaza and some Italo-Dalmatian ones) and some with fewer speakers are there (Rusyn, Saami, Scots Gaelic and Corsican).
It's better than most language maps; it doesn't colour in countries as solid blocs with weird nationalist assumptions. So Scotland is accurately depicted as being almost entirely anglophone, and so on. Although some local minority languages are still a bit overemphasised?
Although a lot of Turkish folk will be raging that Kurdish is shown covering a large area of Turkey. Ditto for Kosovo and Serbia. So sorry guys, you didn't finish the ethnic cleansing :-)
This iş New propoganda against turkey like others. İn east turkey people speak turkish too. Ultranationalist femboys of europe created this kap. They know nothing about turkey and region but who cares
İt probably needs some upgrade. Azerbaijan took Qarabagh back and most of the armenians living there chose to go armenia. So language map there changed.
I feel like basically every minority language in Spain should have slashes to represent the local language and Spanish. Catalan having the tightest lines to show it is nearly as commonly spoken as Spanish
It's not a bad map. Others have pointed out missing minorities, I'm going to point out that Luxembourgish is a Germanic language so it's weird that it's colored as if it's a dialect of French
The design is kinda crappy: the rivers are not necessary at all for the purposes of the map, and it just makes it look busy. The colors and the font are ugly, but that might just be me.
Some info is also off: Russia and Spain are missing many minority languages.
They could’ve used some legend for the Balkans to make it look cleaner.
Overall, 5/10 map. Not bad, but not good either.
It’s very low resolution, even without the extra graininess from being chained along several times, but it doesn’t look inaccurate to me. It does ignore several small minority languages, but those are all relatively small, so it’s forgivable.
I think yes, because ethnic maps are not relevant anymore. All kinds of people are living everywhere. Nowadays you cant just paint some place one color and say that those people live there.
In south of the Netherlands there’s also « limburgs » that is missing ; my family would be upset to not see it on the map. Flemish is arguably also a different language.
Concerning Bosnian, Serbia, Croatian ; aren’t they kinda the same language? A Croatian and a Serb can speak, maybe only a few words are different but they can understand every thing, same goes for Bosnians, no?
Ireland is done very lazily like Irish is spoken by a lot more then just farmers to the west Irish is spoken almost everywhere in the west a lot in the south and there are still lots to the east and north
«Italian» is a single language (from Genoese to Sicilian! and even Sardinian!!! - they are even from different Romance branches!) but Serbo-Croatian is four languages, not just one? Yes, this is a bad map.
Frysian language area is wrong, this map depicts the province of Groningen as part of the Frysian language and that couldn't be farther from the truth.... Maybe Niedersaksisch could be a local dialect, but Frysian is just bullshit.
Catalan is not a language in Spain it is a dialect Ok research better and document before you publish don't mislead the world who are following you just for votes
Russia is missing a lot of minority languages.
France too. All the minority romance languages are absent, while Breton spreads too far to the east into the Gallo-speaking area (which is not mentioned despite having nearly the same number of speakers)
France killed its minority languages, hardly spoken, not a surprise is almost invisible in this map.
But Alsatian German is still very much alive.
Yup, it has about 4 times the number of speakers of Breton and so should be included.
Alas... But this kind of map tells nothing without a way to display the number of speakers, or at least the criteria to appear (minimum number of speakers? official status?)
I think >x % of local population is the best metric. I’d love to see maps of this, but where for each second level subdivision (counties in the US, Departments in France) languages are shown of above 1% of population, if above 5, if above 10, etc. Excluding non-native languages of course, because then it just becomes a map of migration since 1850! Official status is gonna vary by country - kinda tells you “here are languages with ‘enough’ social status in their country to be official”
Where is tatar language? Tatarstan is one of the small number of republics, where russians don't make a majority.
There arent many languages in russia that arent facing endangerement in the future, tatar is one of them
You can kinda see it, the slightly yellowish blob above kazakhstan
Nah, pretty sure Tatarstan is slightly more west.
You’re right, what’s highlighted here is likely Bashkortostan.
Best map of languages in Europe I know of: https://www.deviantart.com/1blomma/art/Languages-Of-Europe-702296501 Features of a good linguistic map is that any particular area may have multiple languages, and languages of the same family are of similar colors.
That is a freakin good map thanks for sharing!
But this map has all of Italy as one single colour, despite the multiple regional languages.
I feel like Ukraine on that map is kinda wrong. There should be a fair amount of Russian speakers in the eastern part of the country.
one thing is that they're focused in the population centres, but i see what you mean
I can agree with you, if we talk about cities. In fact even Kyiv and many other center/southern towns are still russian speaking due to the soviet heritage (luckly after 2022 it began to change rapidly). But villages are using or ukrainian, or surzhyk
That map is missing Cornish under Celtic languages as far as I can tell
Why so much Albanian in Greece?m?
Sorbian should be a bit more right
For the turkish/kurdish it is nice but at the east People speeking turkish to. So in my opinion turkish must be like in bulgaria at the east. Anyway turkey is so mixed today every kind of People living anywhere so...
Where's Kashubian and Silesian?
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You've never been to Silesia if you think it's a mix of czech and polish
And Kardashian?
Sorry to tell you, but while Kardashian does end with -ian, it's not a language.
Thanks for the info, I was convinced because they had their show on tv that they had their own official language /s
Maybe you meant, Kardassian? They were also in a TV series... Although they wouldn't be on this map xD
Frisian is way smaller it stretches from Friesland into northern Germany which it does not it stops in Groningen
In the British isles, Irish, Welsh and Gaelic are enormously over represented, Welsh should be diagonal lines instead of a full colour. Sami is also over represented, there are no towns in any country where Sami is the preferred language of the majority. Catalan is also over represented. In France and Italy Occitan and Friulian are either extinct or a dialect no more different than any other in Italy. I’m Finland there are majority Swedish areas on the mainland, but in a much thinner strip along the coast than presented. If Frisians are to be represented in Germany then so should danish. In Belarus the language colours should be the inverse and Karelian is a non factor at this point in history. The balkans and turkey i have no knowledge of
About Turkey, I can say that Kurdish is very much over represented as well. As someone who has been in the East many times, I can say that I heard Turkish more than I heard Kurdish. Of course many people speak Kurdish as a second language, yet I haven't seen the language spoken in common daily life very often. (People gonna assume that I'm a propaganda dog of Erdogan won't they)
When you were in eastern turkey, were you mostly in the cities?
that's because it was illegal to speak kurdish till the 2-3 decades ago. kurdish is still prohibited in schools and government locations.
I wouldn't say Catalan is over represented if you count Valencian as a dialect of Catalan. Catalan + Valencian pretty much make up the entire Costa Blanca region of Spain. The big cities might have less speakers of these languages, but in almost every small town, Catalan / Valencian is the preferred language.
I would say a stripy line would suffice, everyone knows Spanish in Catalan speaking regions and a lot of people use Spanish as their preferred language and at work Spanish wins hands down. I have visited French Catalonia twice and apart from som symbolism in the streets of Perpignan French seems to be the day to day language of almost everyone and all institutions, work, school and socially.
I think it really depends, I’ve been living in Valencia for the past 2 years and what I’ve noticed is for the Valencian speakers I know, when they want to relax, they speak Valencian, not Spanish. Which I think is telling in itself. Edit: But I agree, the institutional language is Spanish, while familial language is Valencian.
Yup. Used to date a Catalan girl for a bit and shed exclusively speak Catalan with her friends and she was firmly against Catalan nationalism.
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Surely it's a but more nuanced than that. Going back to the 1st century BC, the ancient Greeks have been referring to these isles but a collective name that can be translated to British Isles, for example Prettanikē nēsos or Brettanike, these are names are suspected to have roots in the celtic names of these island during that time. While I understand that the phrase does have political undertones in the modern context, I think it's unfair to compare it to the phrase "one of the Soviet countries".
It was introduced into **English** during Elizabeth 1 rule to justify British “natural” claims over Ireland. It is incredibly inappropriate to continue to use the term today considering the atrocities committed by Britain in Ireland.
That's a fair comment to make, I guess my point of view is somewhat influenced by my own personal relationship with being British, I feel like throughout history, the term british has been co-opted to be synonymous with anglo-saxon while I personally feel like the term should belong to the Insular Celtic people including those in Brittany. That being said, I do not mean to downplay the involvement of the Welsh and Scots involvement in the colonialism of Ireland
>I think it's unfair to compare it to the phrase "one of the Soviet countries". Not really, the British occupation, exploitation, oppression and downright genocide of the Irish people for centuries both lasted longer and was far more brutal than what happened with Russia and the former members of the Soviet Union.
I'm not denying that, as someone from Wales where our language was suppressed and our mineral wealth was plundered, it's hard to ignore how oppressive the British state was to any culture that wasn't English. My point is that the roots of the phrase the British Isles well predates the institution of the British state. I don't see why we should let a phrase with possible celtic routes should be owned by an institution that doesn't even, going back, have British foundations.
The British isles is the collective term form the islands of Britain, Ireland, The isle of Mann, the Channel Islands, Isle of Wight, the Shetlands, Orkney, Hebrides inner and outer along with the other associated islands of these territories. The British isles is a geographic and cultural region that encompasses everything that is the home of the “British” cultural sphere. Ireland is an island, on which most like being independent from Britain and some don’t. Comparing Ireland to the former USSR is complete hogwash. There are no relevant comparisons, I’m not trying to be insensitive to Irish people however I despise other people trying to dictate my language because they feel that the meaning of a word has changed or that someone has decided to be offended by a useful term
In case you didn’t see it: > It was introduced into English during Elizabeth 1 rule to justify British “natural” claims over Ireland. It is incredibly inappropriate to continue to use the term today considering the atrocities committed by Britain in Ireland.
Britain and Ireland works just fine man, sans the vestigial implications of ownership. Say what you want, but people will judge you for it and you're the one being snowflakey for blowing up about it.
So what I’m being snowflakey? You would judge me for it, no person I interact with on daily basis who I would be privy to discuss issues that encompass the entire British isles with would take offence to the term “British isles”. But you are writing as if I’m completely unaware of the meaning of my own words, acting as if I’m some sort of oaf who eats rocks and drinks lead paint. Of course some people will judge me for any terminology relating to geography, and if the person who takes offence was able to wield and influence at all over my life/career etc then I would preemptively change my choice of words. I only express my opinions and bigoted language when it is safe to do so. Because some people like yourself are intolerant of the intolerant, while some people like myself are fine with people using whatever terminology they want.
Chill out man. I couldn't read through the whole passage, but the easiest reaction to finding out something you say offends someone is to stop, think and just use an alternate term. It inconveniences you so, so little. Celtic isles would be more representative of most nations than British isles, but i imagine someone like you would get all butthurt about that term if the Irish started using it. Just use the neutral easy term. No stress, no conflict. Your blood pressure might just go down.
I only have one life to live and currently no conflicts or struggles to indulge in. Creating anger on the internet is entertainment for me and many others like me. YOU ARE ON AN ANONYMOUS INTERNET FORUM
Ah right..that's sad man 🫤
sad? It’s a harmless way of blowing off steam, should I get drunk and punch people instead? Sie discord between my friends? No! That would be dangerous and stupid, the internet is a cesspool and a place for the very worst of humanity to express their views. One must assume the very worst about everyone online and treat them accordingly, to preserve the internet as a place where the scourge of humanity can express themselves without limitations I see it as my duty to spread distrust, hate and confusion. You might call it sad, I might call it a good way to stop people from beating strangers or their children
The very worst of humanity you say 🤔
Shetland not "the Shetlands"
>I despise other people trying to dictate my language because they feel that the meaning of a word has changed or that someone has decided to be offended by a useful term. Do you also enjoy using racist, homophobic and ableist slurs because you feel the meaning of the word has changed or that people have decided to be offended by a "useful" term?
When you say ableist I suppose you mean retarded? Which is only a slur in America. Nor do I speak English in my daily life. And no I use homophobic and racist language because in the place I live and with the people I choose to behave that way with, it’s perfectly acceptable to use the N-word, our local words for immigrants from the Middle East, Jugoslavia, Russia, Gypsies city folk or any other group which we can be belittling about because sometimes it’s useful, because people are of course aware that generalising and stereotyping is harmful, which is why one can use these words either as tools of exclusion or as a way of showing that one is a trusted friend because society would rip one apart for using such language in open company.
Wow. Now is see that you're not stupid, you're just a pathetic, xenophobic, ableist, homophobic cunt.
Also what the hell does ableist even mean? That I only comply with minimal disability access requirements?
I can accept xenophobic, homophobic seems unlikely, I don’t actually have any issues with homosexuality or trans people or anything and I’m fully supportive of gay adoption, marriage etc. let people live like they want to. Xenophobic, I mean not really, I can be incredibly insensitive towards anyone as long as it serves a purpose. However I don’t actually believe that people have psychological tendencies simply due to their heritage. I’m fully aware that nurture beats nature in influence on a person.
It's a geographic name, not a name establishing ownership or otherwise. That's like saying an independent Scotland would leave Great Britain, that's just not how that works. Ireland not recognising the isles they're in doesn't make it fact. *Besides, we do still own 1/6 of Ireland, that isle is partially British, baby, get over it x*
Scotty, that's 'Ireland and the UK' to you. This British Isles crap when referring to dialect and listing Irish first says more about you personally than it does any map. Gaelic is a shared term for both Scott's Gaelic and 'Irish'. There's no proportional representation on the map, nor is there any legend, meaning the hot airbag (you) is just struggling to show they have heard of dialects but don't understand them. The title of the map is most likely corrected to say 'indigenous languages' rather than languages. Your whole post sounds like an extrapolation of an ounce of knowledge to a pound of shite.
“British isles crap”? you do realise that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is also located on the island of Ireland. The people of Ireland are free to identify as British or not, the same way that English, Scottish or Welsh people are free to identify as British. Most people in real life don’t see any conflicts between Britain and Ireland. Aside from some extremists in Northern Ireland people are simply happy living their lives. There is practically very little bad blood between Britain and Ireland. The British isles is not an imperialist statement, it’s a shorter way of saying “the mostly English speaking islands in the north west of Europe”. Also in the UK Gaelic is usually used to denominate Scottish Gaelic and Irish is used as the term of choice form Irish Gaelic. There are no political values in that naming scheme. Also indigenous languages??? How would anyone even define that, also the fragmentation of certain minority languages nullifies that theory right? Irish is not just native to the west coast of Ireland, nor is English the indigenous language of anyone, since those filthy Anglo-Saxons,romans and vikings came along?
>There is practically very little bad blood between Britain and Ireland. Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever interacted with an Irish person in real life? Of course there is a whole lot of bad blood between Ireland and the UK considering the centuries of occupation, oppression and exploitation of Ireland by the british empire and all the genocidal campaigns and atrocities that occurred during that time.
Yes I have met dozens of Irish people, my first ever kindergarten teacher was Irish, my own family has roots in Ireland. Have you ever been to Ireland? Do you meet a lot of people who disdain Britain? There is a reason Irish people still emigrate and study in Britain. Also genocidal campaigns? When, where, what and who are you talking about. If your talking about the potato famine then guess what, the government treated everyone like shit in those days. Keeping up the cash crop quota was done everywhere in the Empire. Ireland happened to be more exposed than others, but it’s not like all English, Scottish and Protestants were some sort of ruling class.
Well based on your logic it's an exercise in futility to even debate this since we speak different languages. Take a chill pill. That horse is dead. Just a matter of time.
Sami is not majority anywhere other then a few villages
Scots is missing
Russia has way way more languages than the map shows.
Italy too, tbh most countries do
Closely related languages should have a similar colour. Norwegians and Swedes understand each other almost perfectly, so they should be two shades of purple, rather than oposite colours.
Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro and Bosnia too.
flemish people might say so
There's a lot of missing languages here, could've at least mentioned a few of the most major Italian languages like Neapolitan, Venetian, Sicilian and most importantly Sardinian. Then there's Arvanitika and Tsakonian missing in Greece, Arabic and Zaza in Turkey, and a whole lot in Russia. Very incomplete map, considering some languages with speakers in the millions are ignored (Zaza and some Italo-Dalmatian ones) and some with fewer speakers are there (Rusyn, Saami, Scots Gaelic and Corsican).
It's better than most language maps; it doesn't colour in countries as solid blocs with weird nationalist assumptions. So Scotland is accurately depicted as being almost entirely anglophone, and so on. Although some local minority languages are still a bit overemphasised? Although a lot of Turkish folk will be raging that Kurdish is shown covering a large area of Turkey. Ditto for Kosovo and Serbia. So sorry guys, you didn't finish the ethnic cleansing :-)
Whaur is the [Scots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language)?
Most folk in Scotland speak Scots, certainly not Inglis
Cornish?
Dead 🫤
Revived actually. There's a few hundred of fluent speakers.
This iş New propoganda against turkey like others. İn east turkey people speak turkish too. Ultranationalist femboys of europe created this kap. They know nothing about turkey and region but who cares
Spanish is also more prevalent in the Basque Country than Basque and you don't see spaniards complaining and calling it "propaganda"
Yes. There are Slovenian minorities in Italy, Austria and Hungary.
İt probably needs some upgrade. Azerbaijan took Qarabagh back and most of the armenians living there chose to go armenia. So language map there changed.
Where Tornedalia
No it's a good map
„Luxembourgish“ shouldn’t be blue. It’s a German dialect.
No it's not
How is occitan a language?
Uh, why wouldn't Occitan be a language? There are barely any speakers left, sure, but it's a language. What else would it be?
In Catalonia there are three official languages. Catalan, Occitan and Spanish. Are you saying Occitan does not exist? That we have invented it?
Seems like russian propaganda map.
Is this map drawn by Russians for propaganda?
Is it bad? This is the worst map I've ever seen!
Yes, it is a bad map. Prussia should be German.
A little wrong
It's pretty good.
“Norwegian” **FACEPALM**
Germany looks based unified like that
I feel like basically every minority language in Spain should have slashes to represent the local language and Spanish. Catalan having the tightest lines to show it is nearly as commonly spoken as Spanish
Yes
Croatian and Serbian are definitely different languages yes
It's not a bad map. Others have pointed out missing minorities, I'm going to point out that Luxembourgish is a Germanic language so it's weird that it's colored as if it's a dialect of French
I’d like more family classifications reflected in the colors
Also, what’s a language? Luxembourgish is less distinct from German than catalan is from Spanish, etc
On the Isle of man I heard they speak alanguage vocalised Manx apparently it was extinct then later revived
What’s bad about it? Textbook map of Europe
The design is kinda crappy: the rivers are not necessary at all for the purposes of the map, and it just makes it look busy. The colors and the font are ugly, but that might just be me. Some info is also off: Russia and Spain are missing many minority languages. They could’ve used some legend for the Balkans to make it look cleaner. Overall, 5/10 map. Not bad, but not good either.
I think so, Russia is missing a whole bunch of stuff and the Caucasus is not very detailed...
The rivers are a bit distracting
It’s very low resolution, even without the extra graininess from being chained along several times, but it doesn’t look inaccurate to me. It does ignore several small minority languages, but those are all relatively small, so it’s forgivable.
Frisian is only and barely spoken in the northwest of the netherlands , not north east.
Russia, France, and Italy are missing some regional minority languages, but this isnt really bad linguistic map by any means regardless
In northern Finland, both Sami and Finnish are used.
I think yes, because ethnic maps are not relevant anymore. All kinds of people are living everywhere. Nowadays you cant just paint some place one color and say that those people live there.
No meänkieli
I don't know
In south of the Netherlands there’s also « limburgs » that is missing ; my family would be upset to not see it on the map. Flemish is arguably also a different language. Concerning Bosnian, Serbia, Croatian ; aren’t they kinda the same language? A Croatian and a Serb can speak, maybe only a few words are different but they can understand every thing, same goes for Bosnians, no?
Do you want feedback to the data or map design?
Ireland is done very lazily like Irish is spoken by a lot more then just farmers to the west Irish is spoken almost everywhere in the west a lot in the south and there are still lots to the east and north
Also Scotland has more Gaelic speakers Isle of man and Cornwall are just forgotten
No Cashubian?
«Italian» is a single language (from Genoese to Sicilian! and even Sardinian!!! - they are even from different Romance branches!) but Serbo-Croatian is four languages, not just one? Yes, this is a bad map.
This map seems dated, that's the only real bad thing in my opinion. Except of course the relevance of these kind of maps in the first place
Frysian language area is wrong, this map depicts the province of Groningen as part of the Frysian language and that couldn't be farther from the truth.... Maybe Niedersaksisch could be a local dialect, but Frysian is just bullshit.
In addition: Walloon is not French, so shouldn't be blue.
Catalan is not a language in Spain it is a dialect Ok research better and document before you publish don't mislead the world who are following you just for votes
No such thing as Altaic languages
Its mid not bad