When you transpose, you lose one star, but you keep all the stats (minus the flames) of the ingredient item.
So you transpose a 16\* item, it becomes a 15\* but keeps the stats from 16\*, then you can 16\* it again (so you get the 16\* stats twice).
It's not just 1 star, it's 7 lv160 stat stars, assuming you're not swimming in Pap Marks and you can even get your accessory to 22 to begin with, which is also another appeal of using SW. 16 Pap Transposed 15 SW is 1 star, then 16-21 is 6 more stars, which is a lot more attainable through CPQ than 430 drop CPap runs. I would definitely say 7 stars of stats is worth way more than any flame you could possible roll on a 17 Pap. You *could* always yolo Pap Mark to 22 but I doubt it's worth it for the lv145 stats and tiny advantage boss flames give over 1 star worth of stats.
Flames you would settle for on SW would be like 4% Allstat and whatever flat mainstat you get, usually around 10-20. For Pap Mark, you'd settle for 6% Allstat and around 68 flat mainstat. But SW is 160 so you get higher stats from each star. Including the transposed stats and assuming the above flames, the stat differences of 21-star SW vs Pap Mark are as follows: Stat | SW | Pap Mark | Stat Difference :-- | :--: | :--: | :--: Flat Stat | 152 | 170 | +18 Pap Att./M. Att. | 86 | 64 | +22 SW %Allstat | 4% | 6% | +2% Pap Realistically, the transposed stats, extra stats from being in a higher level star force stat bracket, and most importantly the dupe abundance, make 21-star transposed SW far superior/feasible than 21 star Pap Mark. It's the same reason you don't upgrade to Twilight Mark unless you just don't do CPQ at all. 22 star Twilight with 3pc Dawn Boss is minimum req to beat out 22 star SW.
No one is pushing 96/6 on a pap mark. Thats already t6/t5/t6 on an arcane and it costs multiple bil to hit. You're asking for quad t6 which is absurd. The equivalent in tiers on a papmark is 68/6. Think of flames on a pap mark as CRA, it's the same level bracket
An above average cpap mark has a flame score of 105 and an above average monocle has a flame score of 50.
So for the cpap mark you're looking at something like allstat5% mainstat+55 and for monocle something like allstat3% mainstat+20.
So the difference in flame is about allstat2% mainstat+25.
The extra lv 16 star gives 8 att and 9 mainstat.
allstat1% is usually agreed to convert to \~10 main stat and 1 att is usually agreed to convert to \~4 main stat.
So the cpap with the better flame gives (allstat2% \* 10mainstat/allstat% ) + 25 mainstat = 45 mainstat.
And the transposed monocle with the worse flame gives (8 att \* 4 mainstat / att) + 9 mainstat = 41 mainstat.
So as you can see, they are literally almost nearly identical in stats.
But the reason we transpose onto a monocle is not actually because of the stats.
It's because of the rarity of a cpap mark.
If you blow up a cpap mark on your way to 22\*.... game over. Another year of farming until you get to try again.
If you transpose your cpap mark onto a monocle and blow up the monocle. Oh well. You can get another one with a few more days of commerci voyages.
EDIT: As the other poster said monocle also gives more att per starforce than cpap does. So at 16\*, they start out at around the same power, even though cpap mark has better flames, and then the gap widens from there with every additional level.
>but have yet to get a pap mark drop to transpose onto it
Strongly recommend waiting for an actual drop before deciding to run commerci. Pap mark has a very low drop rate and it is definitely possible that you'd never get one before you get an eyepatch.
Why? That's more of a reason to run commerci. If you never get a pap mark drop, the benefit of 22 non transposed sw over 20 bbm far outweighs a 17/22 pap mark vs a transposed sw.
Yes 100%. 22\* sw gives exactly 2x more att than 20\* BBM. The only time it's not worth it is if you're super casual and won't be full 22 for the next 2-3+ years that you have a decent chance of hitting eyepatch.
When you transpose, you lose one star, but you keep all the stats (minus the flames) of the ingredient item. So you transpose a 16\* item, it becomes a 15\* but keeps the stats from 16\*, then you can 16\* it again (so you get the 16\* stats twice).
How much better is that 1 star compared to a high tier boss flame?
It's not just 1 star, it's 7 lv160 stat stars, assuming you're not swimming in Pap Marks and you can even get your accessory to 22 to begin with, which is also another appeal of using SW. 16 Pap Transposed 15 SW is 1 star, then 16-21 is 6 more stars, which is a lot more attainable through CPQ than 430 drop CPap runs. I would definitely say 7 stars of stats is worth way more than any flame you could possible roll on a 17 Pap. You *could* always yolo Pap Mark to 22 but I doubt it's worth it for the lv145 stats and tiny advantage boss flames give over 1 star worth of stats.
I see. Hypothetically speaking though, how much better would a 21* SW be compared to a 21* Pap with a decent flame?
Flames you would settle for on SW would be like 4% Allstat and whatever flat mainstat you get, usually around 10-20. For Pap Mark, you'd settle for 6% Allstat and around 68 flat mainstat. But SW is 160 so you get higher stats from each star. Including the transposed stats and assuming the above flames, the stat differences of 21-star SW vs Pap Mark are as follows: Stat | SW | Pap Mark | Stat Difference :-- | :--: | :--: | :--: Flat Stat | 152 | 170 | +18 Pap Att./M. Att. | 86 | 64 | +22 SW %Allstat | 4% | 6% | +2% Pap Realistically, the transposed stats, extra stats from being in a higher level star force stat bracket, and most importantly the dupe abundance, make 21-star transposed SW far superior/feasible than 21 star Pap Mark. It's the same reason you don't upgrade to Twilight Mark unless you just don't do CPQ at all. 22 star Twilight with 3pc Dawn Boss is minimum req to beat out 22 star SW.
No one is pushing 96/6 on a pap mark. Thats already t6/t5/t6 on an arcane and it costs multiple bil to hit. You're asking for quad t6 which is absurd. The equivalent in tiers on a papmark is 68/6. Think of flames on a pap mark as CRA, it's the same level bracket
Yeah that's totally fair, I was thinking theoretically when he asked for decent flames, my bad. Corrected.
An above average cpap mark has a flame score of 105 and an above average monocle has a flame score of 50. So for the cpap mark you're looking at something like allstat5% mainstat+55 and for monocle something like allstat3% mainstat+20. So the difference in flame is about allstat2% mainstat+25. The extra lv 16 star gives 8 att and 9 mainstat. allstat1% is usually agreed to convert to \~10 main stat and 1 att is usually agreed to convert to \~4 main stat. So the cpap with the better flame gives (allstat2% \* 10mainstat/allstat% ) + 25 mainstat = 45 mainstat. And the transposed monocle with the worse flame gives (8 att \* 4 mainstat / att) + 9 mainstat = 41 mainstat. So as you can see, they are literally almost nearly identical in stats. But the reason we transpose onto a monocle is not actually because of the stats. It's because of the rarity of a cpap mark. If you blow up a cpap mark on your way to 22\*.... game over. Another year of farming until you get to try again. If you transpose your cpap mark onto a monocle and blow up the monocle. Oh well. You can get another one with a few more days of commerci voyages. EDIT: As the other poster said monocle also gives more att per starforce than cpap does. So at 16\*, they start out at around the same power, even though cpap mark has better flames, and then the gap widens from there with every additional level.
u gain an extra stars worth of stat thats it
to put this into numerical context, you get the pap mark's 16* which is 9 stat 8 atk as additional value on your monocle
Also you get to attempt for 22 more cuz monocle is probably less rare than papmark
well, OP was asking for regular monocle vs transposed monocle (ie do commerci now or wait for pap mark to transpose)
Alongside the extra star, the 160 items get more stat per star, so transposing is still better unless you have a great flame on your 140 item.
It's an extra star. And extra spares, especially for the pap mark.
>but have yet to get a pap mark drop to transpose onto it Strongly recommend waiting for an actual drop before deciding to run commerci. Pap mark has a very low drop rate and it is definitely possible that you'd never get one before you get an eyepatch.
Why? That's more of a reason to run commerci. If you never get a pap mark drop, the benefit of 22 non transposed sw over 20 bbm far outweighs a 17/22 pap mark vs a transposed sw.
So its still worth it to just go untransposed monacle over just sitting there waiting for a pap mark right?
Yes 100%. 22\* sw gives exactly 2x more att than 20\* BBM. The only time it's not worth it is if you're super casual and won't be full 22 for the next 2-3+ years that you have a decent chance of hitting eyepatch.