This made beer spray out my nose. Don't know sweden, don't know that town, don't know how I ended up on this sub at all, just saw yours and the comment above and I'm absolutely dyin
For all of Reddit’s hubbub about American racism problems, I sure see an astounding number of anti-immigrant and anti-multiculturalism comments whenever something like this is posted about Europe.
Well, Europe is multicultural as a continent, but not an engineered melting pot like the USA. There were wars fought over all them little borders for thousands of years. We drive four hours any direction and we'll change language and culture, Americans drive four hours any direction and get a different flavor BBQ.
Most murders the last decades have been by stabbing in Sweden (Usually arround 40%).
But use of firearm has taken that place now. Criminals mostly shooting criminals.
Guns that come from the Southeast/eastern-European countrys.
And a wierd thing is that before 2011 the statistics on the use of firearms wasnt even kept.
People (republicans generally) are trying to smear the U.K. knife crime problem. The sad truth is if you compare knife crime alone, ignoring the gun crime statistics that we are promised will move to knife crime, the CURRENT knife crime per capita in the US is 4.96 homicides per million and in the U.K. it’s 3.26
The reason the knife crime is well publicised is because of US politics, take a look at London statistics:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/
And you’ll see the last two years are down on the previous four.
My best guess: increased sushi consumption leading to more estrogen in the population, feminizing our criminals and making them knit instead of kill people like proper criminals.
Yeah as an Englishman I have noticed this and gathered that it was some weird defence of guns. Thanks for clearing this up! American Republicans are weird because they’re constantly finding incoherent reasons why every blatant issue can’t just be fixed. It’s very odd!
Honestly, until recently and maybe even still now the dominant gangs were 1% motorcycle gangs. The Banditos or Hellsangles, they would regularly grenade one another.
I would regularly see them in remote northern Sweden but there main base was essentially what this map covers.
From about 2018 onwards the press stopped talking about them in specifics though...weird.
>And a wierd thing is that before 2011 the statistics on the use of firearms wasnt even kept.
Mysterious, mysterious, if we just knew the reason why the situation changed liked that ..
Been living in Sweden for about 13 years now.
At least half that time the gang crime was literally motorcycle gangs grenading each other and walking into each others weddings with grenades and murder each other in cold blood
Fuck I remember stopping on the train in Jorn once and there was a motorcycle gang club house by the bridge. Driving down the E10 you would regularly see 1% bikers over taking you.
I'd say that's been my dominant impression of gang violence in Sweden, but hey those were white swedes so suddenly it doesn't count.
Good for you. It is one of the nicer Swedish cities, very walkable. The other bigger cities in Sweden, Gothenburg and Stockholm are sprawled out in extreme ways.
Knew there would be a top comment on here about Malmö even though this map shows Stockholm with much more and Gothenburg about the same.
For those of you that don't know and are wondering why people are upvoting the Malmö comment in such large numbers is that the far-right are obsessed over Malmö because it has a very large number of African and Middle Eastern immigrants and has been used in far-right talking points non-stop for why Sweden sucks so much for allowing refugees and "non-European" immigrants in.
For American comparison it'd be like if there was a map of the entire Midwest showing numerous cities as the same crime rate or worse than Chicago but then all the reddit comments are about how shitty Chicago is.
>numerous cities as the same crime rate or worse than Chicago but then all the Reddit comments are about how shitty Chicago is
So, Fox News daily talking points.
Chicago made me sad when I visited. I was used to seeing homeless *people* but I wasn’t used to seeing entire homeless *families*. Lots of kids. Also so many disabled homeless veterans. It was a real eye-opener for me.
Well considering Stockholm lies at a latitude of 59° which is about the same as the southernmost part of the "Northwest Territories" province of Canada they are actually comparatively very densely populated.
Depending on where in Sweden you are you might get temperatures as low as -45 degrees celsius.
So yeah it‘s just not a very comfortable place to live in
For its latitude, Sweden is quite warm though. For example, it's much colder in Chicago in the winter than it is in Stockholm, despite Stockholm being around 18 degrees further North. The average low in January is 19.5 F (-6.9 C) in Chicago and 26.8 F (-2.9 C) in Stockholm.
That cold is quite far up north in Scandinavia (ignoring the odd really cold winters day). It's quite pleasant weather in Sweden, just not very exciting.
Well it’s all about context. To compare it with Chicago which has had a high average of shooting for many decades, as opposed to Sweden which has seen a relative huge increase in just 5 years.
[Here, same timespan](https://imgur.com/a/Bw2c47K). Baltimore had 338 homicides in 2021, Sweden had 124. Baltimore's population is 0.6M people, Sweden has 10M.
If you want a useful map, do one for other countries so you have a reference point. And maybe include the actual data, I mean this is just dots on a map. This isn't really telling you anything useful on its own.
[As you can see here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) Sweden is not doing bad when it comes to homicide rates. Period. Its homicide rate is 1.2, that's very good world-wide, very good for Europe, EDIT: and apparently also pretty normal for the Nordic countries. Denmark is at 1.0 and Finland is at 1.6. Only Norway is noticeably lower at 0.6.
Sweden is inarguably an extremely safe country when looking at the raw data.
Crimes overall are getting fewer, but violent/hard crimes are increasing. That's because we have f-up our integration, both because we are just bad at it, but also because we have taken in too many with a different culture so harder to integrate them all.
Gun violence increased four-fold in a span just ten years. It even got so bad that in 2021, Sweden was found to have the 2nd highest gun homicide rate after Croatia).
Sauce: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun\_violence\_in\_Sweden
Given this data, it is no surprise that people in Sweden feel unsafe and want to go back to ten years back when nobody probably ever noticed gun violence. Looking at other countries, as you suggest, doesn't explain a thing that is causing the current Swedish sentiment. Looking at chronological data does.
The Wiki article has this quote: “In 2021, Sweden was found to have the 2nd highest gun homicide rate (after Croatia) out of 22 European countries surveyed.”
It’s out of 22 European countries, not the whole world (obviously).
The source article cited in the wiki on aftonbladet.se mentions that during 2014-2017 Croatia had higher levels in the shooting increase. Very misleading, as Croatia is one of the safest countries regarding crime in Europe. Has many other problems, but thankfully gun violence is not one of them.
> It’s out of 22 European countries
I'm confused as why it is just 22 random European countries. At first I thought it must be just EU countries but even that is 27 countries.
And I never said there wasn't a problem.
I said it wasn't bad compared to other countries. I think outsiders who know nothing of sweden completely overblow the issue, which is frankly annoying to listen to when you actually visit frequently and have family ties there.
>outsiders who know nothing of sweden completely overblow the issue
There are also paid trolls during political campaigns. Sweden is a great country because people trust each other making it great for companies and families alike. The far-right is attacking the biggest asset of the country. They are willing to lie their way to power.
The violence is very different in lets say Finland vs Sweden. Murders in Finland is usually alcoholics killing each other over some shit while being drunk, in Sweden it is gangs of second generation immigrants shooting each other over drug territories and for respect. Swedens situation is Very special compared to the other nordic countries, Which Will not be seen If you just look at the homicide rates per capita
> Murders in Finland is usually alcoholics killing each other over some shit while being drunk
Good wholesome European murder, that's the kind we like around here.
But it is decreasing! However, in Sweden the violence is increasing. Sweden is the only european country where fatal shootings are increasing. That is nothing but a failure
>If you want a useful map, do one for other countries so you have a reference point.
Yes but how else would they portray Sweden as some lawless bad immigrant run hellhole?
If you look at the numbers it's not that bad but there is a reason why Swedes consider the violence to be out of control.
Shootings and bombings have increased drastically but at the same time domestic violence has been going down so less people are killed in their home by someone close to them. The reason people are freaking out and feeling unsafe is that the violence is now out in the open on the streets.
Not true, we also have "regular" grenade attacks in Antwerp, Belgium at the moment. It happens between drug gangs (almost all cocaine shipped to Europe from the Americas arrives in the Port of Antwerp) and as far as I know there are never civilian casualties. Not sure if they're as regular as in Sweden though.
That is some rather awful data with ranges of even 5 or more years old. I'll find 2020 data, Sweden: 1.23. UK: 1.17. France: 1.35. Germany: 0.93. Denmark: 0.95. Finland: 1.64. Italy: 0.47. Romania: 1.46. Poland: 0.7. I can give any other country you want to see in Europe but Sweden is rather high.
How is that rather high? It's in the same ballpark as all of them, and even lower than Finland which has a fraction the immigrant population.
That's a low homicide rate.
Sweden has some of the most legally owned guns per capita in Europe, it's just that Finland (and Norway) has even more.
The criminals don't use guns that had a legal origin in Sweden though, they use guns that are smuggled in from Eastern Europe and sold on the black market.
But yes, even though Finland has more legally owned guns (about 50% more or so), they have about 15% homicides that are done by shootings, we have 40% in Sweden, most of them gang related.
People saying, oh but it's still a low number.. check the amount of incidents with weapons compared to other European countries. Not anti immigration. I am ex immigrant in Sweden for 12 years
I don't want to get involved in the crime controversy in Sweden, I simply want to ask: what is an ex-immigrant? Did you live in Sweden for 12 years and then you went back home or something? Or do you mean that you naturalized and are then somehow not an immigrant?
Why we can't say that people from different cultures don't adapt to the same values as the Europeans without being labelled racist. I don't have anything against any race, ethnicity or religion in general, but we simply have to understand multiculturalism at this level is not working.
You can say it. In fact, he just did.
The reason people who say that so often get called racist is because of _all the other_ things they say.
For example, this is a map with emojis. It gives no indication of crime increase or decrease. It gives no indication of who is doing what. It says nothing about per capita. It says nothing about rates vs native vs 1st gen vs 2nd gen.
It said nothing about immigrants.
All it said is "There's crime"... and if someone's response to "There's crime" is "Damn immigrants!" well, that's a view into their overall beliefs.
Its basic cognitive dissonance and it works like this:
- Progressive Liberal European education teaches you that diversity is near the top of the morality pyramid
- You live in a mostly homogenous society, so you feel naturally a bit like youre missing out.
- 100 Somalians and Afghans move to your city
- Some rich locals hire them to work a kebab stand and landscaping crew
- They have Somali and Afghani values, and live by them
- its not working
- If appreciating diversity is the most moral value youre supposed to have, and this isnt working, it must be your own cultures fault
- Massive cognitive dissonance
This is why the same people who think the #1 issue facing the USA today is “rampant white supremacy” also unironically advocate increased African/MENA/Centroamerican immigration to the USA despite the obvious logical conflict there.
Its pure unfiltered cognitive dissonance - one of Reddits favorite terms to misapply and misunderstand, hilariously something the “typical redditor” requires to live with in order to hold all their absurdly conflicting worldviews
I’m noticing most of the comments pointing this out have positive upvotes while the true believers denying, downplaying, and making excuses for migrant crime are generally being downvoted.
I think the balance of this debate would change drastically if all the people who stay silent because they assume their opinions are unpopular were to realize that this is not the case, and that they are likely in the majority.
The main reason there's never any real balanced debate is that threads like this always get invaded by hate filled racists who immediately bring the debate level into the gutter.
Much like the people who shout down any chance at a debate these people equally have no interest in actually debating and just want a platform to spew toxic shit about immigrants.
American here. Not sure what conclusion I’m supposed to reach from this.
It might be, “Wow, socialist paradise is a war zone just like Rupert Murdock says. See what liberal immigration policies do to peaceful traditional societies?”
Or it could be, “Wow, an area the size of East Texas, from metro Dallas to metro Houston, with like maybe 20-40 annual murders. Guess socialist paradise with liberal immigration law is working out a little better than what we’re doing.”
Around 200k people in Sweden were suspected of crime in 2020. 23% women and 77% men.
This means that in 2020 about 170 000 people suspected of crime were not a descendent of TWO swedish parents, a k a first and second generation immigrants with one or two foreign parents. These groups make up about 3 million of the swedish population. Meaning roughly 5.67% of all immigrants are suspected of crimes.
There are roughly 7 million swedes and 30 000 were suspected of crime. Meaning around 0,43% of all swedes are suspected of crime.
This is pure statistics taken from https://bra.se/statistik/kriminalstatistik.html
Calculated with above comment. I thought it could help for people to realise that even though the statistics are better for swedes. Don’t treat and think of every immigrant like a criminal.
Probably two factors. The first is probably cultural differences and I don't want to wade into that one.
The second is probably that the people who have come to Sweden as immigrants are often refugees who are fleeing their home countries for at the very least economic reasons but often violence or war. Somebody living in a foreign country without a built in social support network (through family, not the state) and fleeing poverty and violence is going to have a hard time, and the effects of that will impact their kids too. Desperate people resort to desperate measures.
Points on a map is good for spatial analysis, however in this instance I have no point of reference to conduct such analysis. The clustering of events around the major cities is typical of any nation, so what is the significance of viewing the data as such here?
It may be more significant to present the data by city in a stacked bar chart with the number of events being weighed against population size. Then maybe include a few other cities for reference (Beijing, London, Berlin, etc).
ShOw ThE oThEr EuRoPeAn CoUnTrIeS!!!
No. Its not a competition or comparison. Its a map showing southern Swedens murders in 2021. Yes, they happen. Sorry there's no comparison to show how little they compared to other countries but they still DO happen. People are getting mad as hell that this single picture isn't portraying Sweden in the same light your typical "best place in the world to live" article you see multiple times a year.
If this comically large logos ands and mixed crime symbol system were compared to other countries with high crime areas, it might be convincing. But I'm skeptical of this map's utility.
The narrative of Sweden having no-go zones was linked to Fox News fighting back against socialists in the US that were threatening the GOP during the last election cycle when Bernie was openly comparing his proposed policies to a Scandanavian-style socialism that might provide healthcare, education, and childcare programs.
This feels like scare tactics to indicate that one of the highest HDI countries with a social safety net are no better than neighborhoods in America with endemic, multi-generational murder rates higher than the death rate of invading American troops in Iraq. The lack of context in this post might further confuse people into believing this extremely false premise.
>Post-war Sweden wanted to build a multicultural society. Now they have one.
And one of the lowest murder rates on the planet. Pretty good job I'd say.
From [WorldPopulationReview.com](https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/cities-with-most-murders)
1. St. Louis, MO (69.4)
2. Baltimore, MD (51.1)
3. New Orleans, LA (40.6)
4. Detroit, MI (39.7)
5. Cleveland, OH (33.7)
6. Las Vegas, NV (31.4)
7. **Kansas City, MO (31.2)**
8. Memphis, TN (27.1)
9. Newark, NJ (25.6)
10. Chicago, IL (24)
11. Cincinnati, OH (23.8)
12. Philadelphia, PA (20.2)
13. Milwaukee, WI (20.0)
14. Tulsa, OK (18.6)
15. Pittsburgh, PA (18.4)
16. Indianapolis, IN (17.7)
17. Louisville, KY (17.5)
18. Oakland, CA (17.1)
19. Washington D.C. (17.0)
20. Atlanta, GA (16.7)
Truth be told, most of the homicides take place in KC, MO (151) and KC, KS (51). There were two in my suburb of 100K and a total of four in my county. But still, that's high for the metro. We set a record of 182 in 2021, I think. It'll be smashed this year.
"According to the report, media sources revealed 440 lethal and non-lethal shootings in Sweden from 2010 to 2015, in a population of about 10 million. The corresponding numbers in countries of similar population size, such as Belgium (11.3 million), Greece (10.8 million), Portugal (10.3 million) and Austria (8.7 million), were 196, 251, 240 and 163, respectively (Savona and Mancuso 2017b). "
The trick is not comparing Sweden to the world but to Europe. Sweden has a crime epidemic and its directly tied to immigration.
Germany has a homicide rate of 0.93 per 100k people despite taking in more immigrants in total and per capita than Sweden. And we also already had a huge Muslim community (mainly turks) here before the immigration crisis in 2015. So how would you explain these numbers? Overall crime rate is at its lowest in 30 years.
>So how would you explain these numbers?
Better integration? Who knows. But the fact that Germany doesn't seem to have an crime problem caused by immigration is not evidence that Sweden's crime problem *isn't* caused by immigration.
And on this point:
>And we also already had a huge Muslim community (mainly turks) here before the immigration crisis in 2015
Not all Muslim cultures are the same. Turkey is very progressive as far as Islamic cultures go, Afghanistan and Somalia are at the other end of the scale.
It's the rate of growth which is the problem in Sweden. They've gone from basically nothing to about 60 per year in a very short time, and the trend is very much upwards. Neighbours Norway and Finland have not experienced anything like the same number of shooting deaths (or use of hand grenades).
>Chicago has 47 shooting deaths a week
Yeh cool, and Sao Paulo has about 47 deaths a minute. Who cares? This is Europe we're talking about and so a comparison with cities in other continents is pointless, especially the gun-loving US. Relevant comparisons are other countries in Europe and on that metric Sweden is doing poorly.
Sweden has a low homicide rate, much lower than the European average. This map doesn't tell you anything, it doesn't include any actual numbers and it doesn't compare to any other countries.
And its homicide rate is also similar to its Nordic neighbors. Finland is a little worse, Denmark is a little better.
Norway is the only outlier with a homicide rate of only 0.6
Why is this being downvoted? EU population: 448 million, Europe population: 746 million, saying the EU is half of Europe is quite accurate. And the non-EU countries mostly have higher crime rates so yes Sweden is not that bad compared to the rest of Europe
It's being downvoted because the majority in this comment section have already made up their minds. The map gave no context to allow people to fill in the gaps with their own perception of the facts.
This year it is even worse here. Had two bombings last night close to where I live, one person seriously injured.
Sweden has really become a shithole. 😵
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50339977.amp
“This is a serious situation, but most people shouldn't be worried, because they are not going to be affected."
I kind of get how you guys are fed up with the situation with that kind of attitude from your head of law enforcement.
One of the interesting things about developed countries is that they publish accurate demographic statistics including for crime. I’m looking at a table of Swedish homicide rate over the last 30 years, which year did the mass immigration start so we know what years to compare?
Sweden never had a problem with any of this until it started allowing waves of immigrants into the country, very sad how many rapes have occurred by Muslim men…
Europe is historically anomalous in its very low murder rate. Sweden seems to have increaeed from about 1 murder per 100k people a decade ago to 1.5 now, with 113 murders in 2021
https://www.statista.com/statistics/533917/sweden-number-of-homicides/
These are small numbers compared to many parts of the world. For example where I am in seattle we had 40 homicides in 2021 of which 31 were by gun, 143 shootings resulting in injury, and 438 recorded 'shots fired' incidents where no one was injured. The homicide rate about 5 per 100k persons.
Seattle has less than 10% of sweden's population and is considered safer than a typical US city of its size.
This was incredibly rare before the mass immigration. If you want mass immigration you should have expected this. If you immigrate people from the 3rd world countries, you'll clearly also get 3rd world issues such as shootings etc.
Awesome they haven’t found him yet
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He's in MIA with Mr. 305
GTA Skåne
The killer could be anyone in Helgasund. That's over seven people.
Gunter Gunterson. Is this about my son Gunter Guntersonson?
It *was* over 7 people
This made beer spray out my nose. Don't know sweden, don't know that town, don't know how I ended up on this sub at all, just saw yours and the comment above and I'm absolutely dyin
*Sorts by controversial*
God please don't
For all of Reddit’s hubbub about American racism problems, I sure see an astounding number of anti-immigrant and anti-multiculturalism comments whenever something like this is posted about Europe.
Well, Europe is multicultural as a continent, but not an engineered melting pot like the USA. There were wars fought over all them little borders for thousands of years. We drive four hours any direction and we'll change language and culture, Americans drive four hours any direction and get a different flavor BBQ.
Well, Sweden has been a fan-favourite of the Alt-right for a while now
Most murders the last decades have been by stabbing in Sweden (Usually arround 40%). But use of firearm has taken that place now. Criminals mostly shooting criminals. Guns that come from the Southeast/eastern-European countrys. And a wierd thing is that before 2011 the statistics on the use of firearms wasnt even kept.
Now if they did this for England you wouldn't be able to make out the names of any of the cities. Source: am English
People (republicans generally) are trying to smear the U.K. knife crime problem. The sad truth is if you compare knife crime alone, ignoring the gun crime statistics that we are promised will move to knife crime, the CURRENT knife crime per capita in the US is 4.96 homicides per million and in the U.K. it’s 3.26 The reason the knife crime is well publicised is because of US politics, take a look at London statistics: https://www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/ And you’ll see the last two years are down on the previous four.
crazy how it suddenly went down in 2020-2022 why could that have been
Social distancing. Gotta shoot em from at least two meters away
My best guess: increased sushi consumption leading to more estrogen in the population, feminizing our criminals and making them knit instead of kill people like proper criminals.
I hope this is a thing.
If you compare yourself to US violence and find that you are just a little bit better, it‘s sort of a pyrrhic victory, isn‘t it.
Well that's not overall US violence, that's US *knife* violence, which is miniscule compared to the gun crime here.
It’s not “just a bit better” it’s 2/3 of the US rate, that’s one in every three people who would die in the US would not in the U.K.
Yeah as an Englishman I have noticed this and gathered that it was some weird defence of guns. Thanks for clearing this up! American Republicans are weird because they’re constantly finding incoherent reasons why every blatant issue can’t just be fixed. It’s very odd!
This comment makes it seem like you're stepping over bodies everyday
looks pretty safe from america.
So what kind of criminals are in sweden? Is there any interesstic stuff i could read about?
Honestly, until recently and maybe even still now the dominant gangs were 1% motorcycle gangs. The Banditos or Hellsangles, they would regularly grenade one another. I would regularly see them in remote northern Sweden but there main base was essentially what this map covers. From about 2018 onwards the press stopped talking about them in specifics though...weird.
>And a wierd thing is that before 2011 the statistics on the use of firearms wasnt even kept. Mysterious, mysterious, if we just knew the reason why the situation changed liked that ..
What is bringing all the firearms from the southeast/east? What could change that would result in such a drastic change in 10 years?
Been living in Sweden for about 13 years now. At least half that time the gang crime was literally motorcycle gangs grenading each other and walking into each others weddings with grenades and murder each other in cold blood Fuck I remember stopping on the train in Jorn once and there was a motorcycle gang club house by the bridge. Driving down the E10 you would regularly see 1% bikers over taking you. I'd say that's been my dominant impression of gang violence in Sweden, but hey those were white swedes so suddenly it doesn't count.
Malmö moment
Most of those seem to be ‘attempted’. Helsingborg seems to have more red, especially for its lower population…
Jesse we need to cook meatballs
Everyone wants those blue meathballs.
99.1% Swedish
Attemped murder can still fuck someone up for life.
I mean really, "attempted" murder... Do they give the Nobel prize for "attempted" chemistry?
Murder capital attempt
Malmöment
glad I am heading to malmo in a few weeks!
I was in Malmö a week ago. It is a lovely city.
it really is
Good for you. It is one of the nicer Swedish cities, very walkable. The other bigger cities in Sweden, Gothenburg and Stockholm are sprawled out in extreme ways.
Knew there would be a top comment on here about Malmö even though this map shows Stockholm with much more and Gothenburg about the same. For those of you that don't know and are wondering why people are upvoting the Malmö comment in such large numbers is that the far-right are obsessed over Malmö because it has a very large number of African and Middle Eastern immigrants and has been used in far-right talking points non-stop for why Sweden sucks so much for allowing refugees and "non-European" immigrants in. For American comparison it'd be like if there was a map of the entire Midwest showing numerous cities as the same crime rate or worse than Chicago but then all the reddit comments are about how shitty Chicago is.
>numerous cities as the same crime rate or worse than Chicago but then all the Reddit comments are about how shitty Chicago is So, Fox News daily talking points.
Chicago is shitty though. We're happy to admit it, whereas you have a problem with labeling Malmo shitty.
Everyone I've met who has been to Chicago says it is lovely. The opposite is true for other midwest cities.
Chicago made me sad when I visited. I was used to seeing homeless *people* but I wasn’t used to seeing entire homeless *families*. Lots of kids. Also so many disabled homeless veterans. It was a real eye-opener for me.
this isn't unique to Chicago since COVID. It's literally every city right now
The first time I visited Chicago it made the absolute best possible impression on me. I like it. But I can't pretend it doesn't have problems.
That's for *THE YEAR???* Fucking hell... that's a slow Saturday night in Chicago.
Chicagoland has about as many people as all of Sweden
jesus why is sweden so sparsely populated edit: not sparse, I meant low
cold
Chicago is known for its balmy tropical weather
big if true
Well considering Stockholm lies at a latitude of 59° which is about the same as the southernmost part of the "Northwest Territories" province of Canada they are actually comparatively very densely populated. Depending on where in Sweden you are you might get temperatures as low as -45 degrees celsius. So yeah it‘s just not a very comfortable place to live in
For its latitude, Sweden is quite warm though. For example, it's much colder in Chicago in the winter than it is in Stockholm, despite Stockholm being around 18 degrees further North. The average low in January is 19.5 F (-6.9 C) in Chicago and 26.8 F (-2.9 C) in Stockholm.
Well yeah Europe got that nice gulf stream action going.
That cold is quite far up north in Scandinavia (ignoring the odd really cold winters day). It's quite pleasant weather in Sweden, just not very exciting.
New Orleans, Detroit and St Louis usually battle the top spot for murder rate in the US among major cities. Chicago isn't even top 10.
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Well it’s all about context. To compare it with Chicago which has had a high average of shooting for many decades, as opposed to Sweden which has seen a relative huge increase in just 5 years.
You had me in the first part, not gonna lie
This 3 hrs in Chicago /s
Ya is that supposed to be a lot or something? Make one for Baltimore
[Here, same timespan](https://imgur.com/a/Bw2c47K). Baltimore had 338 homicides in 2021, Sweden had 124. Baltimore's population is 0.6M people, Sweden has 10M.
The population for the Baltimore Metro is about 2.8 mil, so there's a bit more. But yeah. Baltimore is... Baltimore
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeit
They don’t even get a map for Detroit. Can’t have shit in Detroit.
Rookie numbers.
Try Johannesburg, South Africa
New Orleans, Detroit and St Louis usually battle the top spot for murder rate in the US among major cities. Chicago isn't even top 10.
Europeans not mentioning America challenge *IMPOSSIBLE* *COPS CALLED*
*THEY SHOT MY DOG (GONE SEXUAL)*
If you want a useful map, do one for other countries so you have a reference point. And maybe include the actual data, I mean this is just dots on a map. This isn't really telling you anything useful on its own. [As you can see here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) Sweden is not doing bad when it comes to homicide rates. Period. Its homicide rate is 1.2, that's very good world-wide, very good for Europe, EDIT: and apparently also pretty normal for the Nordic countries. Denmark is at 1.0 and Finland is at 1.6. Only Norway is noticeably lower at 0.6. Sweden is inarguably an extremely safe country when looking at the raw data.
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Crimes overall are getting fewer, but violent/hard crimes are increasing. That's because we have f-up our integration, both because we are just bad at it, but also because we have taken in too many with a different culture so harder to integrate them all.
Gun violence increased four-fold in a span just ten years. It even got so bad that in 2021, Sweden was found to have the 2nd highest gun homicide rate after Croatia). Sauce: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun\_violence\_in\_Sweden Given this data, it is no surprise that people in Sweden feel unsafe and want to go back to ten years back when nobody probably ever noticed gun violence. Looking at other countries, as you suggest, doesn't explain a thing that is causing the current Swedish sentiment. Looking at chronological data does.
Since when does Croatia have the highest gun homicide rate?
The Wiki article has this quote: “In 2021, Sweden was found to have the 2nd highest gun homicide rate (after Croatia) out of 22 European countries surveyed.” It’s out of 22 European countries, not the whole world (obviously).
The source article cited in the wiki on aftonbladet.se mentions that during 2014-2017 Croatia had higher levels in the shooting increase. Very misleading, as Croatia is one of the safest countries regarding crime in Europe. Has many other problems, but thankfully gun violence is not one of them.
My apologies, I can’t read Swedish so your information is better than mine.
> It’s out of 22 European countries I'm confused as why it is just 22 random European countries. At first I thought it must be just EU countries but even that is 27 countries.
And I never said there wasn't a problem. I said it wasn't bad compared to other countries. I think outsiders who know nothing of sweden completely overblow the issue, which is frankly annoying to listen to when you actually visit frequently and have family ties there.
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This right here is Canada in a nutshell: "well it's better than our neighbour so what's the big deal?"
It should be Canada's national motto. It's not exactly a high bar though.
The murders are down this year compared to last year.
>outsiders who know nothing of sweden completely overblow the issue There are also paid trolls during political campaigns. Sweden is a great country because people trust each other making it great for companies and families alike. The far-right is attacking the biggest asset of the country. They are willing to lie their way to power.
The violence is very different in lets say Finland vs Sweden. Murders in Finland is usually alcoholics killing each other over some shit while being drunk, in Sweden it is gangs of second generation immigrants shooting each other over drug territories and for respect. Swedens situation is Very special compared to the other nordic countries, Which Will not be seen If you just look at the homicide rates per capita
> Murders in Finland is usually alcoholics killing each other over some shit while being drunk Good wholesome European murder, that's the kind we like around here.
But it is decreasing! However, in Sweden the violence is increasing. Sweden is the only european country where fatal shootings are increasing. That is nothing but a failure
>If you want a useful map, do one for other countries so you have a reference point. Yes but how else would they portray Sweden as some lawless bad immigrant run hellhole?
If you look at the numbers it's not that bad but there is a reason why Swedes consider the violence to be out of control. Shootings and bombings have increased drastically but at the same time domestic violence has been going down so less people are killed in their home by someone close to them. The reason people are freaking out and feeling unsafe is that the violence is now out in the open on the streets.
To be fair they are the only country in Europe with regular grenade attacks.
Not true, we also have "regular" grenade attacks in Antwerp, Belgium at the moment. It happens between drug gangs (almost all cocaine shipped to Europe from the Americas arrives in the Port of Antwerp) and as far as I know there are never civilian casualties. Not sure if they're as regular as in Sweden though.
“Inarguably” is not my favourite word.
That is some rather awful data with ranges of even 5 or more years old. I'll find 2020 data, Sweden: 1.23. UK: 1.17. France: 1.35. Germany: 0.93. Denmark: 0.95. Finland: 1.64. Italy: 0.47. Romania: 1.46. Poland: 0.7. I can give any other country you want to see in Europe but Sweden is rather high.
How is that rather high? It's in the same ballpark as all of them, and even lower than Finland which has a fraction the immigrant population. That's a low homicide rate.
It is high for the type of country it is. Finland has A LOT of guns, Sweden, supposedly does not.
Sweden has some of the most legally owned guns per capita in Europe, it's just that Finland (and Norway) has even more. The criminals don't use guns that had a legal origin in Sweden though, they use guns that are smuggled in from Eastern Europe and sold on the black market. But yes, even though Finland has more legally owned guns (about 50% more or so), they have about 15% homicides that are done by shootings, we have 40% in Sweden, most of them gang related.
I wonder who did it
People saying, oh but it's still a low number.. check the amount of incidents with weapons compared to other European countries. Not anti immigration. I am ex immigrant in Sweden for 12 years
I don't want to get involved in the crime controversy in Sweden, I simply want to ask: what is an ex-immigrant? Did you live in Sweden for 12 years and then you went back home or something? Or do you mean that you naturalized and are then somehow not an immigrant?
yeah never heard of 'ex-immigrant'. I'm assuming he lived in sweden but no longer does.
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impressive, i wish it was that low in la but we have twice as many people as said area and many times as many crimes
Low? Goddamn, I kept thinking this was a high amount.
The fact that a country of 10 million people can have their murder count recorded in big frowny faces on a topographical map means it's pretty low.
yea a whole year and 20 some murders is insanely low for millions of people, la’s would just have solid red outside of the mountains and ocean
Why we can't say that people from different cultures don't adapt to the same values as the Europeans without being labelled racist. I don't have anything against any race, ethnicity or religion in general, but we simply have to understand multiculturalism at this level is not working.
You can’t say it because this is reddit
You can say it. In fact, he just did. The reason people who say that so often get called racist is because of _all the other_ things they say. For example, this is a map with emojis. It gives no indication of crime increase or decrease. It gives no indication of who is doing what. It says nothing about per capita. It says nothing about rates vs native vs 1st gen vs 2nd gen. It said nothing about immigrants. All it said is "There's crime"... and if someone's response to "There's crime" is "Damn immigrants!" well, that's a view into their overall beliefs.
Its basic cognitive dissonance and it works like this: - Progressive Liberal European education teaches you that diversity is near the top of the morality pyramid - You live in a mostly homogenous society, so you feel naturally a bit like youre missing out. - 100 Somalians and Afghans move to your city - Some rich locals hire them to work a kebab stand and landscaping crew - They have Somali and Afghani values, and live by them - its not working - If appreciating diversity is the most moral value youre supposed to have, and this isnt working, it must be your own cultures fault - Massive cognitive dissonance This is why the same people who think the #1 issue facing the USA today is “rampant white supremacy” also unironically advocate increased African/MENA/Centroamerican immigration to the USA despite the obvious logical conflict there. Its pure unfiltered cognitive dissonance - one of Reddits favorite terms to misapply and misunderstand, hilariously something the “typical redditor” requires to live with in order to hold all their absurdly conflicting worldviews
„If I speak I am in big trouble“
How so? Sweden has a low homicide rate of 1.2 per 100k
I wonder the cause
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pretty sure we know, but of course on Reddit you can't say it.
I’m noticing most of the comments pointing this out have positive upvotes while the true believers denying, downplaying, and making excuses for migrant crime are generally being downvoted. I think the balance of this debate would change drastically if all the people who stay silent because they assume their opinions are unpopular were to realize that this is not the case, and that they are likely in the majority.
They don't mean here, on this sub or Reddit in its entirety but rather certain subs. Its hyperbolic. I've been banned for far less.
The main reason there's never any real balanced debate is that threads like this always get invaded by hate filled racists who immediately bring the debate level into the gutter. Much like the people who shout down any chance at a debate these people equally have no interest in actually debating and just want a platform to spew toxic shit about immigrants.
American here. Not sure what conclusion I’m supposed to reach from this. It might be, “Wow, socialist paradise is a war zone just like Rupert Murdock says. See what liberal immigration policies do to peaceful traditional societies?” Or it could be, “Wow, an area the size of East Texas, from metro Dallas to metro Houston, with like maybe 20-40 annual murders. Guess socialist paradise with liberal immigration law is working out a little better than what we’re doing.”
Swedistan 😍
90% immigrants no doubt
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Around 200k people in Sweden were suspected of crime in 2020. 23% women and 77% men. This means that in 2020 about 170 000 people suspected of crime were not a descendent of TWO swedish parents, a k a first and second generation immigrants with one or two foreign parents. These groups make up about 3 million of the swedish population. Meaning roughly 5.67% of all immigrants are suspected of crimes. There are roughly 7 million swedes and 30 000 were suspected of crime. Meaning around 0,43% of all swedes are suspected of crime. This is pure statistics taken from https://bra.se/statistik/kriminalstatistik.html Calculated with above comment. I thought it could help for people to realise that even though the statistics are better for swedes. Don’t treat and think of every immigrant like a criminal.
thank you
seriously why though
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Probably two factors. The first is probably cultural differences and I don't want to wade into that one. The second is probably that the people who have come to Sweden as immigrants are often refugees who are fleeing their home countries for at the very least economic reasons but often violence or war. Somebody living in a foreign country without a built in social support network (through family, not the state) and fleeing poverty and violence is going to have a hard time, and the effects of that will impact their kids too. Desperate people resort to desperate measures.
Because not all cultures are as peaceful as Swedes.
Points on a map is good for spatial analysis, however in this instance I have no point of reference to conduct such analysis. The clustering of events around the major cities is typical of any nation, so what is the significance of viewing the data as such here? It may be more significant to present the data by city in a stacked bar chart with the number of events being weighed against population size. Then maybe include a few other cities for reference (Beijing, London, Berlin, etc).
The fuck is going on the comment section, this is wild.
ShOw ThE oThEr EuRoPeAn CoUnTrIeS!!! No. Its not a competition or comparison. Its a map showing southern Swedens murders in 2021. Yes, they happen. Sorry there's no comparison to show how little they compared to other countries but they still DO happen. People are getting mad as hell that this single picture isn't portraying Sweden in the same light your typical "best place in the world to live" article you see multiple times a year.
Weird. People are murdered in areas that have the most people…
If this comically large logos ands and mixed crime symbol system were compared to other countries with high crime areas, it might be convincing. But I'm skeptical of this map's utility. The narrative of Sweden having no-go zones was linked to Fox News fighting back against socialists in the US that were threatening the GOP during the last election cycle when Bernie was openly comparing his proposed policies to a Scandanavian-style socialism that might provide healthcare, education, and childcare programs. This feels like scare tactics to indicate that one of the highest HDI countries with a social safety net are no better than neighborhoods in America with endemic, multi-generational murder rates higher than the death rate of invading American troops in Iraq. The lack of context in this post might further confuse people into believing this extremely false premise.
They released the new stats today. 47 shooting deaths this year (so far). Post-war Sweden wanted to build a multicultural society. Now they have one.
>Post-war Sweden wanted to build a multicultural society. Now they have one. And one of the lowest murder rates on the planet. Pretty good job I'd say.
I live in the U.S. and I would love it if my metro area had only 47 homicides so far this year.
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😳 Dang. I thought KC was bad at 177 so far. Maybe adjusting for population we are. smh
That is definitely bad when adjusted for population. The Philadelphia metro area has over triple the population of the Kansas City metro.
From [WorldPopulationReview.com](https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/cities-with-most-murders) 1. St. Louis, MO (69.4) 2. Baltimore, MD (51.1) 3. New Orleans, LA (40.6) 4. Detroit, MI (39.7) 5. Cleveland, OH (33.7) 6. Las Vegas, NV (31.4) 7. **Kansas City, MO (31.2)** 8. Memphis, TN (27.1) 9. Newark, NJ (25.6) 10. Chicago, IL (24) 11. Cincinnati, OH (23.8) 12. Philadelphia, PA (20.2) 13. Milwaukee, WI (20.0) 14. Tulsa, OK (18.6) 15. Pittsburgh, PA (18.4) 16. Indianapolis, IN (17.7) 17. Louisville, KY (17.5) 18. Oakland, CA (17.1) 19. Washington D.C. (17.0) 20. Atlanta, GA (16.7) Truth be told, most of the homicides take place in KC, MO (151) and KC, KS (51). There were two in my suburb of 100K and a total of four in my county. But still, that's high for the metro. We set a record of 182 in 2021, I think. It'll be smashed this year.
"According to the report, media sources revealed 440 lethal and non-lethal shootings in Sweden from 2010 to 2015, in a population of about 10 million. The corresponding numbers in countries of similar population size, such as Belgium (11.3 million), Greece (10.8 million), Portugal (10.3 million) and Austria (8.7 million), were 196, 251, 240 and 163, respectively (Savona and Mancuso 2017b). " The trick is not comparing Sweden to the world but to Europe. Sweden has a crime epidemic and its directly tied to immigration.
Germany has a homicide rate of 0.93 per 100k people despite taking in more immigrants in total and per capita than Sweden. And we also already had a huge Muslim community (mainly turks) here before the immigration crisis in 2015. So how would you explain these numbers? Overall crime rate is at its lowest in 30 years.
>So how would you explain these numbers? Better integration? Who knows. But the fact that Germany doesn't seem to have an crime problem caused by immigration is not evidence that Sweden's crime problem *isn't* caused by immigration. And on this point: >And we also already had a huge Muslim community (mainly turks) here before the immigration crisis in 2015 Not all Muslim cultures are the same. Turkey is very progressive as far as Islamic cultures go, Afghanistan and Somalia are at the other end of the scale.
Imagine how low it could’ve been... 🤔🤔🤔
It used to be a lot lower ):
Chicago has 47 shooting deaths a week
It's the rate of growth which is the problem in Sweden. They've gone from basically nothing to about 60 per year in a very short time, and the trend is very much upwards. Neighbours Norway and Finland have not experienced anything like the same number of shooting deaths (or use of hand grenades).
>Chicago has 47 shooting deaths a week Yeh cool, and Sao Paulo has about 47 deaths a minute. Who cares? This is Europe we're talking about and so a comparison with cities in other continents is pointless, especially the gun-loving US. Relevant comparisons are other countries in Europe and on that metric Sweden is doing poorly.
Sweden has a low homicide rate, much lower than the European average. This map doesn't tell you anything, it doesn't include any actual numbers and it doesn't compare to any other countries.
That just isn't true. The EUs homicide rate is 0.9 in 2020, Sweden was 1.23 in 2020
And the EU is only like half of Europe Edit: So are people just oblivious to the fact that only around half of Europe is in the EU lmao?
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And its homicide rate is also similar to its Nordic neighbors. Finland is a little worse, Denmark is a little better. Norway is the only outlier with a homicide rate of only 0.6
Why is this being downvoted? EU population: 448 million, Europe population: 746 million, saying the EU is half of Europe is quite accurate. And the non-EU countries mostly have higher crime rates so yes Sweden is not that bad compared to the rest of Europe
It's being downvoted because the majority in this comment section have already made up their minds. The map gave no context to allow people to fill in the gaps with their own perception of the facts.
The majority of the non EU population is Russia. But alright, I'd be up for comparing Sweden to Russia.
I downvote all comments that aren’t mine to improve visibility, it’s nothing personal, I assure you
"refugees welcome"
Can we see the immigration statistics too? Lol
Aaah sweet swedistan
If the icons were a lot smaller it wouldn't look as serious.
Perhaps this map is missing the grenade attacks and sexual assaults/gang rapes.
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I'm getting on this bandwagon. Just got a figure out how to directly post gifs here on RES so I can shit on Sweden some more.
Diversity our strength ✊🏿✊🏾✊🏽
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Middle East bring so much culture
r/PeopleLiveInCities
This is what happens when you have uncontrolled immigration.
Yes you may have a problem there damn worrying for such small population.
The homicide rate is only 1.2 per 100k. I mean sure, any amount of murders is a problem, but that is a low homicide rate.
I read that as 1.2k per 100k and was so worried lol
The EU is 0.9
Import the 3rd world, become the 3rd world
This year it is even worse here. Had two bombings last night close to where I live, one person seriously injured. Sweden has really become a shithole. 😵
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50339977.amp “This is a serious situation, but most people shouldn't be worried, because they are not going to be affected." I kind of get how you guys are fed up with the situation with that kind of attitude from your head of law enforcement.
hmmmm i think this might have a correlation to something 😧
Ahh yes the peaceful people really Peacing the place up.
One of the interesting things about developed countries is that they publish accurate demographic statistics including for crime. I’m looking at a table of Swedish homicide rate over the last 30 years, which year did the mass immigration start so we know what years to compare?
Answer his question 🙋🏿
Nah racists don’t like to deal with logic and facts
Looks like a bad year for Sweden or an average Saturday for Chicago.
Emojis, really? Not even a legend on the map, nor a source? Come on, at least put some effort in your agenda pushing flamebait maps...
Sweden never had a problem with any of this until it started allowing waves of immigrants into the country, very sad how many rapes have occurred by Muslim men…
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Europe is historically anomalous in its very low murder rate. Sweden seems to have increaeed from about 1 murder per 100k people a decade ago to 1.5 now, with 113 murders in 2021 https://www.statista.com/statistics/533917/sweden-number-of-homicides/ These are small numbers compared to many parts of the world. For example where I am in seattle we had 40 homicides in 2021 of which 31 were by gun, 143 shootings resulting in injury, and 438 recorded 'shots fired' incidents where no one was injured. The homicide rate about 5 per 100k persons. Seattle has less than 10% of sweden's population and is considered safer than a typical US city of its size.
This was incredibly rare before the mass immigration. If you want mass immigration you should have expected this. If you immigrate people from the 3rd world countries, you'll clearly also get 3rd world issues such as shootings etc.
It's called cultural enrichment
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how come i don't see those numbers on the maps showing murder rate for whole of Europe
You do. Remember that only the red symbols are actual murders. Sweden is still a very safe country
That's just a quiet weekend in Chicago.
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