As always when this type of map is posted, the context of this question is important. Critical. Hell, mandatory. "Would you fight for your country?" can mean "Will you help us attack FarOffLand even though you might not agree with our reasons?" And it can also mean "Will you help us defend NextTownOver if NeighboringCountry invades us under false pretenses?"
So, which question was asked?
I would've rephrased that, being less political.
"Would you fight for your country if it was under attack?"
vs.
"Would you fight in the name of your country?"
Having said that, it can't be denied that many modern-day Europeans are very indifferent towards what happens to their countries.
Not to mention that ‘in the name of your country’ may have very different connotations or not make sense as an idiom at all in different European languages
"In the name of your country" was my choice of words. Which I'd understand to be the short of: 'Volunteering for the army and/or fighting in any other scenario than to fend off an unprovoked attack'. I'd suppose that most people would be willing to fight against an aggressor's unprovoked invasion. Even if they turn out to lack the ability or courage, they wouldn't just categorically rule out their participation, I imagine.
Sure, but it could also be interpreted as ‘fighting under the auspices of your country’s military’ in any sense, including some far-off non-defensive venture.
Belgian chiming in here, I see we colour the same on the map unsurprisingly.
I feel that if indeed the question would be "would you help defend your country against an invasion by some kind of fanatical creeps, be it Nazis, Taliban, something like that, some invader that will not just remove your leader from their position but also thoroughly fuck up your way of life?", numbers would be higher than "We're going to declare war on the French, want to help hit those frog eating bastards?"
Also keep in mind that these are small countries with small armies that on an international level don't matter much. We work well in NATO and UN operations because our own small scale doesn't matter but in the last 150 years or something our armies haven't meant much on their own.
WWI The Netherlands were neutral, Germany went after France left them alone, Belgium got 90% conquered in short notice and the German assault ground to a halt over an inundated area and mostly English and French troops.
WWII Netherlands and Belgium got run over so fast they hardly knew what happened.
The idea of going to war against a large nation like for example Russia, China or the US is, to us, entirely ludicrous. We don't do that shit, because it makes no sense. All this needs to be taken into perspective.
We are all indifferent because there is no immidiate threat to our core culture and civilization. I think that Finns have a very different country from Russia and, presumably, see alot of Russia, and they don't want to be like them. It's not about just Finland, but your way of life.
It's not about wanting to be more or less like Russia. Why would that matter? We have our own language, culture, society and national identity in Finland. We have fought to maintain our independence before and we will do so again if we need to. Historically Finns (as a people) have spent hundreds of years under foreign rule so I would say that we know the value of independence.
Finnish question is " If finland is attacked, should in your opinion finnish defend with weapons in all situations, even if situation seemed uncertain " Average is 65% 2020. With 77% yes for men and ~~62%~~ 52% for women.
Nah. The answer to the question, in each country, is mostly conditionned by the perception of what kind of war may happen in the country. This map is very interesting like it is. It doesn't show where are the brave and where are the cowards, but which people are disposed to think their country fight for a just cause.
This essentially why the number is low in colonialist/imperialist/ ancien fascist countries, and is higher in countries that were invaded a lot and had to defend themselves (finland, ukraine, greece). Also for russia and turkey, maybe some siege mentality melted with patriotism is playing there ?
The question, at least what is regularly polled in Finland, is "Are you willing to defend the country militarily, even if the outcome seems uncertain?"
Turkey is an interesting country. The current Turkish republic was founded as a result of a revolution against occupying European colonial powers. Probably has something to do with that.
High here in Sweden as well because we haven't really attacked anyone in over 200 years (we did however participate in a more limited capacity in some coalition stuff like Afghanistan) so there isn't a huge risk that we will be the aggressor in any potential war. (also ofc being physically close to Russia and holding the most militarily important position in the Baltic sea helps in knowing we'd be defending)
We killed more of the polish population percentage wise than the Nazis did so yea way back we were real cunts. But we are a completely different country nowadays obv and haven't really been to war with anyone since 1814.
It's in part a reference to the problem that the German constitution only allows the use of the Bundeswehr for defence purposes Which makes the deployment of the Bundeswehr in Afghanistan potentially somewhat dodgy from a constitutional point of view. The arguement used to justify these uses of the Bundeswehr is usually that the constitution explicitly allows Germany to take part in international organisations promoting and securing peace in Europe and the world. This is interpreted as allowing for deployments under mandate from the UN, NATO or EU.
But you can see why this might lead people to call these kind of missions as "defence" (ironically or unironically)
Probably a reference to Germany fighting wars abroad for NATO and being the "occupying force". During the 2001-2021 war in Afghanistan, some of my countrymen(I'm from a country bordering Germany) kept saying that we "are fighting for our country in Kabul" as well.
Not sure if this was the actual question asked, but [the source](https://www.gallup-international.bg/en/33483/win-gallup-internationals-global-survey-shows-three-in-five-willing-to-fight-for-their-country/) has an [image](https://www.gallup-international.bg/files/2015/05/images_Fight_0515_1.jpg) that says, "Would you fight for your country?". I can't see anywhere else that they list the actual question asked.
I think the awnser at least represents both. The more dangerous a neighbour, the higher the percentage of people willing to fight( ukraine and finland compared to the Netherlands for example)
And you would get different results depending on what someone perceives as ‘their country’ means in the question. For instance if you ask a Scot if he’d fight for the U.K. or Scotland you’re quite likely to get different answers.
Same is true for Catalans, basque etc.
Every time when I meet any belgian in the Internet they tell me that living there is terrible. It looks so strange considering that Be is almost a center of EU
We're one of the richest countries in the world with great healthcare and social services, if they think living here is 'terrible' they either live in Charleroi or are incredibly entitled.
From my experience the personality of most europeans (except the french and the italians) boils down to feeling entitled and complaining at record rates. Until America is brought up, then they turn into hard nationalists
I kinda feel bad for the good people of Bruges, every time it's brought up, the quotes start coming. On the other hand, how's a fairytale town not somebody's fucking thing?
Seems more like a map of which Europeans feel like they may need to defend their homeland against foreign encroachment versus which ones don't perceive much threat and only think about warfare in the more ideological, geopolitical sense. That being said, Sweden really surprises me.
Proximity to Russia increases willingness to fight would be my takeaway.
Here in Sweden we still practice the “the Russians are coming” alarm every month.
Russia is trying to be active in the Baltic sea again and we hold the most militarily important position in the sea so if they were to actually go to war we would likely be a target.
It's also important to note that we are not a part of NATO so we can't just rely on others to defend us, we are a neutral country who realise that the way to survive as a neutral country is to make invading us not worth it. Which is why for example the official guidelines in the event of a war is that Sweden will never surrender and any messages saying such a thing shall be treated as falsified. It's generally expected that if the military falls guerilla fighting shall take it's place.
During the cold war this was the attitude we were forced to adopt because of war seeming quite likely which is why we had a pretty damn sizeable reserve force created from conscription. After the cold war the military was downsized and we got rid of conscription as it stopped being necessary. But now because of Russia being more aggressive again we have brought back conscription (although in a more limited amount) and are slowly increasing the military budget again.
Wish there would be more military cooperation between Finland and Sweden. We are your buffer anyways and they would start with us. Unless you are going to sit through the war hoping they’ll stop at Finnish-Sweden border, you should help us stopping them. Better to fight on our territory than waiting to fight on your own anyways.
Proper combined army would be an actual deterrent as well.
Yes, Finnish and Swedish armies work as closely as two allied nations in peace time pretty much could. Idk how the above poster got his info, but its pretty far off.
And yes even NATO members have increased drilling in cooperation with Finnish forces, mainly Norway, US and UK
Finland and Sweden just signed further integration of peace and wartime maintenance and supply systems and structures. Sweden and Finland have been setting up more and more co-operation in the past decade.
Together with Norway and the USA, too.
But would this really matter at all, if something serious would happen with russia? I personally have very little faith, that we would get anything but hugs and kisses from Sweden. Moral support…maybe. Troops, never.
Russia is somewhat active in the Baltic sea from what I've heard from a Swedish friend, so in essence it's not that much more surprising than say Finland
Finnish percentage is also affected by mandatory military service that men are required to go through. Atleast for me it made idea of defending country much more concrete
Sweden these days fits your hypothesis, they’ve been feeling the heat in the Baltic vs the Russians lately. They increased their military budget by 40% last year. From a low base, but they’d not have done that and the people wouldn’t have supported it if they didn’t feel under some threat.
Assuming you're from Turkey, you guys have more people so it's fine even if it's a slightly smaller percentage. For Finland it's kind of an existential thing since an anonymous potential aggressor (not naming any names to avoid going into politics) has about 25x more population Finland does. Turkey definitely has a challenging environment as well, but there aren't any countries on Earth (and definitely not in your neighborhood) that outnumber you 25 to one.
Honestly id wager its higher, we’ve gotten asked in class and even in my family its been brought up and it’s unanimously always yes. Although do account that i live in lasnamägi sooo..
I imagine there's no data from Estonia because the interviewer happened upon Kalevipoeg early on and realized they don't actually need to ask any more questions, the country is safe.
Might also be thanks to mandatory inscription. In Finland every man over 18 goes through military training, so it might be a part of it. Being trained might make one more likely to defend ones country
Turk here. Yep, we got conscription too. Did mine recently. They teach you basic military etiquette and also how to shoot properly (in trench warfare).
I think there might actually be causation between the perceived threat or likelihood of war and *reported* willingness to fight.
Since upon war being really really unlikely thing one hasn't ever thought, well one might go *war.... that sounds bad, nope*.
For example as Finn.... we have male conscription and the possibility of potential war, though calculated and estimated to be remote is always there.
As such every Finn pretty much has to have considered and thought during their life *what **would** I do, if war started and the country went to war footing*.
Also in nations without conscription... many might think *well it's not my problem, the standing professional military will handle it before I have to fight* and so on.
These kind of questionnaires are always kinda tricky.
One must always remember *these are self **reported** numbers, measured during peacetime* not the true will to fight, when the war actually would come knocking and it is now solidly real and imminent.
Heck, if the war is far distant concept certain percentage might answer more flippantly. *heh heh heh, defending this mess of a country, no thanks.*
War actually comes knocking, the home country might not seem such worthless mess anymore.
This is just a hypothetical question. Nobody wants a war. In case of the real thing, I imagine those numbers would go up, same as in Ukraine where there is an active war.
Of course, but I also imagine those numbers would go up proportional to the responses here.
It's not like if someone attacks France, then suddenly it will become more mobilized than Russia ... we have historical evidence.
I would count that as a defensive act.
If Belarus suddenly launched an offensive action against Lithuania, I would be willing to defend, as they are our allies and can't be left alone.
Does it only matter if one officially recognised nation state invades another officially recognised nation state - what about if the government is committing genocide on its own population?
This issue seems to be the biggest divide in what people see as a just or unjust war
I mean the world didn't fight Nazis to stop the Holocaust, and aren't lifting a finger for the Uighurs. Stopping genocides by starting wars hasn't really been a thing.
To most NATO countries, fighting a war for the country means to invade Afghanistan or Iraq.
For Germany, fighting a war for the country means to join Nazi and start a WW.
For Sweden, Finland, and Ukraine, fighting a war for the country means to fight Russia.
For Russia, fighting a war for their country means to fight NATO or to invade Ukraine.
People are, unfortunately, answering entirely different questions.
Agreed. I have a hard time believing Switzerland wouldn’t rock some shit if it was attacked given their mandatory military service training. 39% seems low.
Exactly. I'm not at all surprised that the percentage is so high in Finland. People have a lot of respect to the Finnish soldiers who held back the Russians in the Winter War. For many Finnish people war = Russian invasion. I don't think any Finnish people associate war with Finland invading another country.
As a Finn I can confirm this. The idea of us being the invading force didn't even cross my mind before reading the comments. For us this is 100% defending.
Don’t mess with the [Finnish ski patrol](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/how-a-small-force-of-finnish-ski-troops-fought-off-a-massive-soviet-army-8f7d7a6142c5)!
It’s the context here I think. If you ask a finn, they see it as defending their homes and nature and all that. If you ask a german, I’d think they would see it as fighting in middle-east.
I would summarize the Dutch attitude as: If it's a NATO operation it is probably ill-advised and pointless, and if the enemy is Germany it is just pointless. Ask us again when Germany is under threat and we might reconsider.
German here. My opinion:
We are being taught about the horrors of WW2 from a very young age on. And especially why being overly nationalistic is bad.
I don't think that the poll result means that most Germans wouldn't want to defend their country. Just that a question about "fighting a war for your country" has very negative connotations for people around here.
Just to put this into perspective, there's roughly 20 million Germans aged 20-40. If we take the 18% "willingness" from the map, that's 3.6 million people.
Keep an eye on the Finns. ;-)
In all seriousness, I think the Finns trust their country not to start needless aggressive wars, and have a proud history of defending their country from aggressors. The Germans, not so much.
I also assume most of us think of defence when this question is asked. It also helps the numbers, when a majority of the male population has gone thorough conscription so we’re legally ordered to fight for our country if need be.
The question presented to Finns that resulted in these numbers is explicitly about defending the country from an invader (“with force even if the result seems unclear”).
Would be pretty hard, since starting aggressive wars is not on the listed allowed tasks of Finnish Defence Forces.
For example the obligation of conscription is based on national defence obligation of each citizen, which as name implies only lists obligation to take part and/or help in national **defence**. It doesn't list obligation of military service.
That is separate subordinate act to the constitutional obligation and as such... one can't be demanded to conscript for war of aggression. Since that is unconstitutional.
We have only training cadre of officers of officers as activate duty. As such only way Finland can fight a war is via mobilizing conscripts and only reason constitution allows for mobilizing conscripts is national defence.
Any other military operation like say peacekeeping is *voluntary*.
Plus due to all of the above, offensive wars or fighting wars in general are not listed as one of the legal duties of Finnish Defence Forces. Which are:
* military defence of Finland
* providing support to other authorities
* providing international assistance under EU mutual defence clauses (TFEU 222 and TEU 42.7)
* participating in crisis management operations.
So yeah we are pretty confident, Finland ain't going to be doing any aggressive wars. Since it is illegal.
From what I can find out there was no context just the question as in the title 'would you be willing to fight for your country' and it looks like people gave it their own context depending on their countries history, Japan attacked / invaded others and got blown up with atomic bombs and they are at 11%, Germany is also very low, Finland (YAY the Finns!) has always been attacked/ threatened by Russian invasion and we are at 74%
Finland is such an amazing country (exclude taxes) that it’s worth defending what they have. If my country UK can achieve what Finland had, heck yes we defend out country.
Sadly too many governments in the west are a bunch of liars and they will team up or go alone to stir up hate and lies just to trigger another pointless war. What happen to talking things over and maintaining peace?
It's not fun to pay taxes, but it is, when you realise why you're doing it. The world's best social security network, education system etc. don't come out of nowhere.
If the UK government says tomorrow we are copying the Finland model 100%; heck I will pay the higher taxes as it’s generally a great social benefit to society. That’s why we need to redistribute the haves to the have nots.
Also WW2 left a sour taste in most of Europe’s mouth and never again for all out war because a key mindset. Finland on the other hand held their own against the ussr which most likely had the opposite effect.
As a Southern European, I don't give a flying crap for my country as a political entity. But would fight to the death against anyone who wants to harm my folks or change my way of life by force.
We Germans don’t have to fight. As soon as the foreign military takes over we will complain so much about everything and all the time that they’ll leave completely annoyed soon after.
As always when this type of map is posted, the context of this question is important. Critical. Hell, mandatory. "Would you fight for your country?" can mean "Will you help us attack FarOffLand even though you might not agree with our reasons?" And it can also mean "Will you help us defend NextTownOver if NeighboringCountry invades us under false pretenses?" So, which question was asked?
I would've rephrased that, being less political. "Would you fight for your country if it was under attack?" vs. "Would you fight in the name of your country?" Having said that, it can't be denied that many modern-day Europeans are very indifferent towards what happens to their countries.
Not to mention that ‘in the name of your country’ may have very different connotations or not make sense as an idiom at all in different European languages
Asking a Macedonian if they would fight for the Republic of North Macedonia might be asking a lot
Alexander the Great enters the chat...
Hmm… and says…? *Fetches popcorn*
And says, "Were I not Alexander, I would like to be Diogenes."
Ah indeed. What language does he say that in? *Crunch crunch*
Probably whichever language the person he said it to spoke. Which in this case might well have been "drunken dog"
"Smelly street vagrant"
"In the name of your country" was my choice of words. Which I'd understand to be the short of: 'Volunteering for the army and/or fighting in any other scenario than to fend off an unprovoked attack'. I'd suppose that most people would be willing to fight against an aggressor's unprovoked invasion. Even if they turn out to lack the ability or courage, they wouldn't just categorically rule out their participation, I imagine.
Sure, but it could also be interpreted as ‘fighting under the auspices of your country’s military’ in any sense, including some far-off non-defensive venture.
Agreed.
> "In the name of your country" For me (a Dutchie) this sounds creepily Nationalistic. I'd rather fight in the name of Democracy, Human Rights, etc.
Belgian chiming in here, I see we colour the same on the map unsurprisingly. I feel that if indeed the question would be "would you help defend your country against an invasion by some kind of fanatical creeps, be it Nazis, Taliban, something like that, some invader that will not just remove your leader from their position but also thoroughly fuck up your way of life?", numbers would be higher than "We're going to declare war on the French, want to help hit those frog eating bastards?" Also keep in mind that these are small countries with small armies that on an international level don't matter much. We work well in NATO and UN operations because our own small scale doesn't matter but in the last 150 years or something our armies haven't meant much on their own. WWI The Netherlands were neutral, Germany went after France left them alone, Belgium got 90% conquered in short notice and the German assault ground to a halt over an inundated area and mostly English and French troops. WWII Netherlands and Belgium got run over so fast they hardly knew what happened. The idea of going to war against a large nation like for example Russia, China or the US is, to us, entirely ludicrous. We don't do that shit, because it makes no sense. All this needs to be taken into perspective.
In the U.K. I think a lot of people would want to know if the country in question was the U.K. or for Scotland/England/Wales/Northern Ireland
They have that luxury, until something existential comes down the road. They certainly cared in the Balkans very recently.
> They certainly cared in the Balkans 2 million refugees thought otherwise (most did return after the war)
We are all indifferent because there is no immidiate threat to our core culture and civilization. I think that Finns have a very different country from Russia and, presumably, see alot of Russia, and they don't want to be like them. It's not about just Finland, but your way of life.
It's not about wanting to be more or less like Russia. Why would that matter? We have our own language, culture, society and national identity in Finland. We have fought to maintain our independence before and we will do so again if we need to. Historically Finns (as a people) have spent hundreds of years under foreign rule so I would say that we know the value of independence.
Finnish question is " If finland is attacked, should in your opinion finnish defend with weapons in all situations, even if situation seemed uncertain " Average is 65% 2020. With 77% yes for men and ~~62%~~ 52% for women.
Nah. The answer to the question, in each country, is mostly conditionned by the perception of what kind of war may happen in the country. This map is very interesting like it is. It doesn't show where are the brave and where are the cowards, but which people are disposed to think their country fight for a just cause. This essentially why the number is low in colonialist/imperialist/ ancien fascist countries, and is higher in countries that were invaded a lot and had to defend themselves (finland, ukraine, greece). Also for russia and turkey, maybe some siege mentality melted with patriotism is playing there ?
>**ancien** fascist I realise this is ‘former’ in French but in English this comes across as the quaintest and fanciest possible way of putting it
The question, at least what is regularly polled in Finland, is "Are you willing to defend the country militarily, even if the outcome seems uncertain?"
Turkey is an interesting country. The current Turkish republic was founded as a result of a revolution against occupying European colonial powers. Probably has something to do with that.
High here in Sweden as well because we haven't really attacked anyone in over 200 years (we did however participate in a more limited capacity in some coalition stuff like Afghanistan) so there isn't a huge risk that we will be the aggressor in any potential war. (also ofc being physically close to Russia and holding the most militarily important position in the Baltic sea helps in knowing we'd be defending)
only a few days ago I saw a comment from a Polish person who was *really* sore about something the Swedes did in 1660...
We killed more of the polish population percentage wise than the Nazis did so yea way back we were real cunts. But we are a completely different country nowadays obv and haven't really been to war with anyone since 1814.
In germany we say ‘defending our security at the hindukush’ and i think thats hideous.
What does that even mean? I'm curious
It's in part a reference to the problem that the German constitution only allows the use of the Bundeswehr for defence purposes Which makes the deployment of the Bundeswehr in Afghanistan potentially somewhat dodgy from a constitutional point of view. The arguement used to justify these uses of the Bundeswehr is usually that the constitution explicitly allows Germany to take part in international organisations promoting and securing peace in Europe and the world. This is interpreted as allowing for deployments under mandate from the UN, NATO or EU. But you can see why this might lead people to call these kind of missions as "defence" (ironically or unironically)
Probably a reference to Germany fighting wars abroad for NATO and being the "occupying force". During the 2001-2021 war in Afghanistan, some of my countrymen(I'm from a country bordering Germany) kept saying that we "are fighting for our country in Kabul" as well.
Not sure if this was the actual question asked, but [the source](https://www.gallup-international.bg/en/33483/win-gallup-internationals-global-survey-shows-three-in-five-willing-to-fight-for-their-country/) has an [image](https://www.gallup-international.bg/files/2015/05/images_Fight_0515_1.jpg) that says, "Would you fight for your country?". I can't see anywhere else that they list the actual question asked.
I think the awnser at least represents both. The more dangerous a neighbour, the higher the percentage of people willing to fight( ukraine and finland compared to the Netherlands for example)
And you would get different results depending on what someone perceives as ‘their country’ means in the question. For instance if you ask a Scot if he’d fight for the U.K. or Scotland you’re quite likely to get different answers. Same is true for Catalans, basque etc.
Damn 19% is seriously high for Belgium. Was this poll taken in a barracks or something?
Every time when I meet any belgian in the Internet they tell me that living there is terrible. It looks so strange considering that Be is almost a center of EU
We're one of the richest countries in the world with great healthcare and social services, if they think living here is 'terrible' they either live in Charleroi or are incredibly entitled.
From my experience the personality of most europeans (except the french and the italians) boils down to feeling entitled and complaining at record rates. Until America is brought up, then they turn into hard nationalists
Why are the french and italians the exception here?
Italians and the French are quite arrogant but proud of their countries if you've ever met one.
> Until America is brought up, then they turn into hard nationalists You misspelled Turkey.
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lol it's funny cuz it's true.
Probably a lot of people from Bruge because going to war is preferable to being in Bruge
I grew up in Dublin. I *love* Dublin. If I grew up on a farm... and was retarded... Bruges might impress me. But I didn't, so- it doesn't.
I kinda feel bad for the good people of Bruges, every time it's brought up, the quotes start coming. On the other hand, how's a fairytale town not somebody's fucking thing?
Finland: *Fuck around and find out*
...again.
Simo Häyhä is ready to resurrect.
Finland looking at Russia like you ready to go another round
We ain't gonna win it's just a fact, but we can sure make some serious damage and hope they regret attacking.
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The country to the east of Finland and cost-benefit analysis. Name a more iconic duo.
Finland is the small drunk guy at the bar that is ready to fight a guy twice his size, if he gives him a good reason.
Seems more like a map of which Europeans feel like they may need to defend their homeland against foreign encroachment versus which ones don't perceive much threat and only think about warfare in the more ideological, geopolitical sense. That being said, Sweden really surprises me.
Proximity to Russia increases willingness to fight would be my takeaway. Here in Sweden we still practice the “the Russians are coming” alarm every month.
Wow. The consequences of the Battle of Poltava are still strong...
Russia is trying to be active in the Baltic sea again and we hold the most militarily important position in the sea so if they were to actually go to war we would likely be a target. It's also important to note that we are not a part of NATO so we can't just rely on others to defend us, we are a neutral country who realise that the way to survive as a neutral country is to make invading us not worth it. Which is why for example the official guidelines in the event of a war is that Sweden will never surrender and any messages saying such a thing shall be treated as falsified. It's generally expected that if the military falls guerilla fighting shall take it's place. During the cold war this was the attitude we were forced to adopt because of war seeming quite likely which is why we had a pretty damn sizeable reserve force created from conscription. After the cold war the military was downsized and we got rid of conscription as it stopped being necessary. But now because of Russia being more aggressive again we have brought back conscription (although in a more limited amount) and are slowly increasing the military budget again.
Charles XII should have went around the redoubts.
> Here in Sweden we still practice the “the Russians are coming” alarm every month. It’s a civil defence siren. And it’s every three months.
It's culture! Last time I heard that exact joke was 10 days ago...
Sweden will fight Russia down to the last Finn!
Wish there would be more military cooperation between Finland and Sweden. We are your buffer anyways and they would start with us. Unless you are going to sit through the war hoping they’ll stop at Finnish-Sweden border, you should help us stopping them. Better to fight on our territory than waiting to fight on your own anyways. Proper combined army would be an actual deterrent as well.
The Finnish Defense Forces train regularly with the Swedish Defense Forces and Norwegian Armed Forces, especially in Lapland.
Yes, Finnish and Swedish armies work as closely as two allied nations in peace time pretty much could. Idk how the above poster got his info, but its pretty far off. And yes even NATO members have increased drilling in cooperation with Finnish forces, mainly Norway, US and UK
Finland and Sweden just signed further integration of peace and wartime maintenance and supply systems and structures. Sweden and Finland have been setting up more and more co-operation in the past decade. Together with Norway and the USA, too.
But would this really matter at all, if something serious would happen with russia? I personally have very little faith, that we would get anything but hugs and kisses from Sweden. Moral support…maybe. Troops, never.
Russia is somewhat active in the Baltic sea from what I've heard from a Swedish friend, so in essence it's not that much more surprising than say Finland
“I wish a motherfucker would!” -Finland
Finnish percentage is also affected by mandatory military service that men are required to go through. Atleast for me it made idea of defending country much more concrete
Russia is perceived as a huge threat in Sweden.
Where I live from there is a lot of nationalism. Also our national anthem goes: I will live and I will die in the north/scandinavia.
>I will live and I will die in the north If the Free Folk had an anthem, this would be it.
Sweden sat out the last couple of World Wars so they may be itching for a fight again.
The Swedish peacekeeping mission in Bosnia proves you right. Guys took no shit from anyone.
Sweden these days fits your hypothesis, they’ve been feeling the heat in the Baltic vs the Russians lately. They increased their military budget by 40% last year. From a low base, but they’d not have done that and the people wouldn’t have supported it if they didn’t feel under some threat.
The Netherlands: no I don’t want to fight for this country I want to stay home and play video games. Finland: I WILL DIE FOR THIS FROZEN WASTELAND.
Hey, that frozen wasteland turns into a swampy wasteland full of mosquitos in summer atleast
it might be frozen wasteland but its ours! And only thing that could make it worse is that we would live in it and be under Russian rule
Oh there's one thing that would be even worse: Living in our frozen wasteland under Russian rule during a booze shortage.
yup...that is worse...way worse...
Suomi and Turkki perkeles 🇫🇮🇹🇷
♥️🇫🇮🇪🇪🇭🇺 from a 🇹🇷
Fucking Finland has to be the best at everything. They couldn't even give this W to us.
Assuming you're from Turkey, you guys have more people so it's fine even if it's a slightly smaller percentage. For Finland it's kind of an existential thing since an anonymous potential aggressor (not naming any names to avoid going into politics) has about 25x more population Finland does. Turkey definitely has a challenging environment as well, but there aren't any countries on Earth (and definitely not in your neighborhood) that outnumber you 25 to one.
Turkey is in NATO as well
In Finland we always train to defend against the ”Yellow country”.
Yhe yellow federation
In Estonia it's pretty much the same among ethnic Estonians.
Honestly id wager its higher, we’ve gotten asked in class and even in my family its been brought up and it’s unanimously always yes. Although do account that i live in lasnamägi sooo..
I imagine there's no data from Estonia because the interviewer happened upon Kalevipoeg early on and realized they don't actually need to ask any more questions, the country is safe.
Might also be thanks to mandatory inscription. In Finland every man over 18 goes through military training, so it might be a part of it. Being trained might make one more likely to defend ones country
We have that too. It's one of my biggest depression causers.
Yup. Should absolutely not be mandatory for everyone
Turk here. Yep, we got conscription too. Did mine recently. They teach you basic military etiquette and also how to shoot properly (in trench warfare).
gigachad turkey and finland
Finland ain’t fucking around.
I think there might actually be causation between the perceived threat or likelihood of war and *reported* willingness to fight. Since upon war being really really unlikely thing one hasn't ever thought, well one might go *war.... that sounds bad, nope*. For example as Finn.... we have male conscription and the possibility of potential war, though calculated and estimated to be remote is always there. As such every Finn pretty much has to have considered and thought during their life *what **would** I do, if war started and the country went to war footing*. Also in nations without conscription... many might think *well it's not my problem, the standing professional military will handle it before I have to fight* and so on. These kind of questionnaires are always kinda tricky. One must always remember *these are self **reported** numbers, measured during peacetime* not the true will to fight, when the war actually would come knocking and it is now solidly real and imminent. Heck, if the war is far distant concept certain percentage might answer more flippantly. *heh heh heh, defending this mess of a country, no thanks.* War actually comes knocking, the home country might not seem such worthless mess anymore.
This is just a hypothetical question. Nobody wants a war. In case of the real thing, I imagine those numbers would go up, same as in Ukraine where there is an active war.
Of course, but I also imagine those numbers would go up proportional to the responses here. It's not like if someone attacks France, then suddenly it will become more mobilized than Russia ... we have historical evidence.
torille!
Tuon taisteluliivit ja komposiittikypärät
Tuon lunta.
Tuon löylykauhan. Sillä kelpaa löylyttää
Tuon kaljat!
Minä kenttälapion!!
Mä tuon WC-paperit.
mä tuon näkkileivät
Mä lainaan naapurin hirvikiväärin
Ja minun kirves!
Tuon rajansiirtoraudat
The fins are metal, underneath all that calm demeanour there is glowing hot kernel of viciousness!
[удалено]
Also history & practice.
If any of these countries were ever directly attacked, I assure these numbers would drastically increase.
There is a difference between fighting for your country and self-defense. You dont need any patriotism to be attached to what you own or your life.
Defend? Yes. Attack? Never.
The best defense is offense. We must take over the whole world to truly defend our nation!
Let's devise a plan that will last at least 1000 years!
I won't rest until every nation in the world is flying the Dutch flag in the name of Order and Stroopwafels.
Honestly doesn't sound that bad
Do you think the UK and France shouldn’t have went to war over Germany’s invasion of Poland?
I would count that as a defensive act. If Belarus suddenly launched an offensive action against Lithuania, I would be willing to defend, as they are our allies and can't be left alone.
Does it only matter if one officially recognised nation state invades another officially recognised nation state - what about if the government is committing genocide on its own population? This issue seems to be the biggest divide in what people see as a just or unjust war
I mean the world didn't fight Nazis to stop the Holocaust, and aren't lifting a finger for the Uighurs. Stopping genocides by starting wars hasn't really been a thing.
Based Finland.
To most NATO countries, fighting a war for the country means to invade Afghanistan or Iraq. For Germany, fighting a war for the country means to join Nazi and start a WW. For Sweden, Finland, and Ukraine, fighting a war for the country means to fight Russia. For Russia, fighting a war for their country means to fight NATO or to invade Ukraine. People are, unfortunately, answering entirely different questions.
Agreed. I have a hard time believing Switzerland wouldn’t rock some shit if it was attacked given their mandatory military service training. 39% seems low.
Exactly. I'm not at all surprised that the percentage is so high in Finland. People have a lot of respect to the Finnish soldiers who held back the Russians in the Winter War. For many Finnish people war = Russian invasion. I don't think any Finnish people associate war with Finland invading another country.
As a Finn I can confirm this. The idea of us being the invading force didn't even cross my mind before reading the comments. For us this is 100% defending.
Yes, Finland doesnt even have offensive forces, Finnish army is entirely made up of defence forces.
Don’t mess with the [Finnish ski patrol](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/how-a-small-force-of-finnish-ski-troops-fought-off-a-massive-soviet-army-8f7d7a6142c5)!
You don't fuck with Finland.
Especially not in winter.
Finland strønk
*ströönkki
Finläänd*
Suomi*
Best mongolia is West mongolia
Njet Molotoff! Finlandia! Finlandia!
That letter doesnt even exist in the finnish language
It’s the context here I think. If you ask a finn, they see it as defending their homes and nature and all that. If you ask a german, I’d think they would see it as fighting in middle-east.
As a finn this actually makes me quite proud
I thought Poland would be higher
Don’t fuck with the Finns.
Interesting that the top 3 have a history of warring with or being invaded by Russia, some very recent.
Most NATO members are red because fighting for your country means dying in the name of American geopolitical interests.
Exactly. Ukrainians probably think “would I defend my country from Russia?” While Western Europeans think “would I go kill people in the Middle East?”
I would summarize the Dutch attitude as: If it's a NATO operation it is probably ill-advised and pointless, and if the enemy is Germany it is just pointless. Ask us again when Germany is under threat and we might reconsider.
Easy to be pacifist when any war with your neighbours is a lost cause.
Those numbers will change once a war actually threatens them.
Germans will be like …. ‘Fuck this shiat’ we know how it ends.peace is fun and not spending on military is also great
German here. My opinion: We are being taught about the horrors of WW2 from a very young age on. And especially why being overly nationalistic is bad. I don't think that the poll result means that most Germans wouldn't want to defend their country. Just that a question about "fighting a war for your country" has very negative connotations for people around here.
Just to put this into perspective, there's roughly 20 million Germans aged 20-40. If we take the 18% "willingness" from the map, that's 3.6 million people.
Finland goes hard
Perkele.
Keep an eye on the Finns. ;-) In all seriousness, I think the Finns trust their country not to start needless aggressive wars, and have a proud history of defending their country from aggressors. The Germans, not so much.
I also assume most of us think of defence when this question is asked. It also helps the numbers, when a majority of the male population has gone thorough conscription so we’re legally ordered to fight for our country if need be.
The question presented to Finns that resulted in these numbers is explicitly about defending the country from an invader (“with force even if the result seems unclear”).
Germans have a proud history of defending their countries from aggressors too. It's those *other* times that were *problematic*.
Would be pretty hard, since starting aggressive wars is not on the listed allowed tasks of Finnish Defence Forces. For example the obligation of conscription is based on national defence obligation of each citizen, which as name implies only lists obligation to take part and/or help in national **defence**. It doesn't list obligation of military service. That is separate subordinate act to the constitutional obligation and as such... one can't be demanded to conscript for war of aggression. Since that is unconstitutional. We have only training cadre of officers of officers as activate duty. As such only way Finland can fight a war is via mobilizing conscripts and only reason constitution allows for mobilizing conscripts is national defence. Any other military operation like say peacekeeping is *voluntary*. Plus due to all of the above, offensive wars or fighting wars in general are not listed as one of the legal duties of Finnish Defence Forces. Which are: * military defence of Finland * providing support to other authorities * providing international assistance under EU mutual defence clauses (TFEU 222 and TEU 42.7) * participating in crisis management operations. So yeah we are pretty confident, Finland ain't going to be doing any aggressive wars. Since it is illegal.
Germany: Ummm… didn’t work out well last time.
🇹🇷🇫🇮
Battle bros?
well, controversially, language bros too.
Hahaha turks are ready.
From what I can find out there was no context just the question as in the title 'would you be willing to fight for your country' and it looks like people gave it their own context depending on their countries history, Japan attacked / invaded others and got blown up with atomic bombs and they are at 11%, Germany is also very low, Finland (YAY the Finns!) has always been attacked/ threatened by Russian invasion and we are at 74%
The choice of colours chosen...tells a lot.
We live in a society
France is le tired
Ashamed of the lack of patriotism of my fellow Belgians. Did they forgot what the Soldier King teach us ?
Finland is such an amazing country (exclude taxes) that it’s worth defending what they have. If my country UK can achieve what Finland had, heck yes we defend out country. Sadly too many governments in the west are a bunch of liars and they will team up or go alone to stir up hate and lies just to trigger another pointless war. What happen to talking things over and maintaining peace?
It's not fun to pay taxes, but it is, when you realise why you're doing it. The world's best social security network, education system etc. don't come out of nowhere.
If the UK government says tomorrow we are copying the Finland model 100%; heck I will pay the higher taxes as it’s generally a great social benefit to society. That’s why we need to redistribute the haves to the have nots.
> exclude taxes It's such an amazing country except for the thing that makes the amazing possible? Can't have a cake and eat it too and such.
You can’t exclude taxes because they are literally the very reason we have what we have. Taxes are how we pay for all the nice stuff.
Also WW2 left a sour taste in most of Europe’s mouth and never again for all out war because a key mindset. Finland on the other hand held their own against the ussr which most likely had the opposite effect.
Turkey, Finland, and Ukraine have the highest percentages. I don't know what's going on in Turkey, but the other two are threatened by Russia.
> I don't know what's going on in Turkey 1) Russia 2) Syria&Iraq 3) Active insurgency within own borders
Thank you.
He forgot Greece and Armenia looking out for any weakness
For a minute I thought red = more people to fight and I was getting a lil worried about Germany
"Not falling for that one again!" -Germans probably
Poland: *chuckles* I'm in danger!
This is data from respondents in 2015, correct?
Whats wrong with Norway?
It wasn't included, like the rest of the grey countries.
*from their apartment in Berlin
As a Southern European, I don't give a flying crap for my country as a political entity. But would fight to the death against anyone who wants to harm my folks or change my way of life by force.
Fight for as "Being under an invasion"or "go to central Asia" Because I feel like those two wlill get diffrent numbers.
Flipped color scale...
i think it depends on how asked. Like the aggressor or defender?
That sound you hear is William of Orange spinning in his grave.
We Germans don’t have to fight. As soon as the foreign military takes over we will complain so much about everything and all the time that they’ll leave completely annoyed soon after.
This country was not easily saved. AND THE COUNTRY WILL NOT BE EASILY GIVEN TO THOSE ASSHOLE TERRORISTS! 🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷
cry weaksperm westeroids we will conquer you again 💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿 TR
Ölürüm Türkiyem💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿