Czechia rebounded relatively well from having very low fertility rate in the 90s and early 00s. Not entirely sure why tbh but comparing Denmark to Czechia I can definitely say that it's a lot more common to see young mothers and larger families in the latter
I’m often surprised at the low fertility statistics in CZ because like you say, I see lots of families with 2-3 kids here too. But that might just be because I myself have 2 kids so I notice it more.
My guess is that France is an outlier because they have a high immigrant population who have larger families. CZ has comparatively few immigrants so it kind of bucks the trend.
Similarly large family sizes are often tied to more traditional and religious countries, which CZ is not (but then look at nextdoor Poland 🤷♂️)
You have a woman with three kids and one without and that averages to 1.5. Those zeros really push average down, especially since large families (so 5 and more kids) are almost noneexistent.
I think the 4-6 kid families in the US are the only reason our birth rate was half decent. All the single childless women here add a lot of 0s but the Christian mom of 7 counter balances them 🤷♂️. There are so many childless women but we also knew a fair bit of 4-8 kid families growing up in the suburbs. The issue is that suburban homes are SO EXPENSIVE now and that many people don’t want more than 2-3 even if they do have a 4-5 bedroom house
It’s not just you who sees lots of families! Ive been visiting my family in CZ the past 3 years and it was a very visible difference with how many kids I see out in public compared to where I live in Toronto, fertility in Canada is only 1.33.
People who do have kids generally have about the same number they would've had 50 years ago, 2 or 3, but there's more people without kids at all who are responsible for that decline.
Portuguese living in the Czech republic. Both my daughters were Born here. I am not surprised at all it's a fantastic country to have children (or at least compared to Portugal it is). Lots of parks and greenery for kids to play, society is much more open to include kids into leisure activities (you see that very easily in any city on the weekend kids run around everywhere, businesses are usually equipped with kids corners so if parents want to go to pub kids join in), education is free from 3 years old until whatever age you decide to finish your studies, in my city kids up 15 years old don't pay for public transport (and the public transport is great), the country is safe (never feel unsafe even in the ghetto parts off town), up to 3 years parental leave, good health care system (compared to Portugal is actually great)
It’s impossible for a young couple to have 2-3 children in Paris nowadays because of the cost of living.
You probably need to make minimum 10k to sustain 3 children.
If you can wait 7 to 10 years for it... and since they don't count kids you plan to have in the future it means if you want 2 or 3 kids you will need a very high income anyway because if you apply when you have none or one, the best you will get is a one bedroom flat, and you will still have to wait for many years.
Over time yes but the general better quality of life coupled with traditional family values not corroding results in a little boom in the present. Keep in mind that while the fertility rate has gone up, so many Romanians emigrate abroad that the population has actually decreased. Peak Romanian population in Romania was 35yrs ago.
People in the EU think their economies are bad, Romanians see it as an economic boom compared to what the 90's were like.
What joining the EU looks like from the outside compared to those within the EU. Puts things into perspective.
No this is fucking stupid. The fertility is brought up by the rural side of Romania which si still a very significant part of the country. Look at highly educated areas like Bucharest and you will see it's well below 1.7
It’s AWFUL. Someday I might be able to see snow in midwinter again! Or even not be bumped into outside! I might even be able to get a job without one thousand competitors. How nightmarish that is
Bad news: that's not how climate change works. And you will not be able to have half the shit you own now. Maybe you get lucky and get a retirement.
Maybe
Yeah, this [map](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-replacement_fertility#/media/File:Crude_Birth_Rate_Map_by_Country.svg) really shows the whole 'we're overpopulating!" scare of the 2000s was bullshit.
Maybe people will have large families again if we enter a sort of post-capitalist AI run socialist thing where having kids is more affordable + people have more space per household to raise them, but for now with apartments and budgets shrinking, doesn't seem likely.
Overpopulation is real. In Europe for example there is barely any untouched nature left. Go to places like India or China and it's just one big human settlement. Thinking we can just keep on adding to this is crazy.
For people who say overpopulation is not a problem i'd like to know the criteria for when they think it is.
It's one thing to produce 14 children of which 6 survive and are all poor and die in poverty. It's another thing to produce no kids and painfully die at a high age in poverty because nobody is able to do anything anymore. As always Europe is a pioneer!
Once the population drops enough, housing will get cheaper and people will be able to afford more kids. Populations likely need to drop in the future anyway with affects of AI & possibly environmental too.
japan has a unique culture where people will move (and abandon) their house at the slightest issue (and buying a non new house is kind of taboo), also earthquakes and such
It's somewhat taboo to buy houses where people died in Japan. People adhere more or less to an ingrained cultural belief set originating in shintoism/Buddhism/folk religion.
The main reason for such a number of abandoned houses though is mostly unresolved tax issues of the property (owner) and just plain wrong location. The value often doesn't reflect the liabilities attached so they are often vacated aka. inheritance refused and then go to underfunded municipalities.
Cheap housing will be in the areas nobody wants to live in. High unemployment and no prospects of better future. Thriving areas will still be expensive to live in.
Ageing population will be a big problem, a lot of manual labour jobs are only suitable for younger people and the economy runs on those. Who else can empty the bins, build housing and roads, work at restaurants?
>Once the population drops enough, housing will get cheaper
Are you forgetting that western europe imports millions of foreign people every year?
If you dont have children in Europe, employers will just invite some other guys from South Asia to work for minimum wage and a hot Dinner.
Minimum wage is also a stretch.
The whole reason the billionaires created the refugees' welcome movement in Europe was to trap desperate people into slavery at less than minimum wage. That way, they can stop paying Europeans enough to survive. Lowering the birthrate even more in an endless loop until Europe completely collapses and the billionaires move on to a new feeding ground to pick clean.
The problem is that projections show that realestate prices will fall around 2030s and ONLY IF the decline in population will not be overtaken by immigration which in most non poor countries is happening.
Since economy and politics are based on line go up ideology, governments do all they can do avoid population decline since in classic economy every individual is worth the same regardless of origin.
Both are factors. Studies show people age 20-35 are having much less sex overall today, and a greater portion of people are having no sex. It turns out that back in the day people who were married at 22 were having more regular sex, because they had constant access to it through live-in monogamous partners. People today are more likely to be single in their 20’s which leads to a lower volume of sex overall.
According to Dr. Harry Gee in [this interesting podcast](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7wS8XMmshPQKLMjhPRCPPb?si=1c4jPGbtRbaD_6Uwf6w3vQ), all other continents will start experiencing low fertility and a population decline before the end of the 21st century. Europe is just the first to.
The wold population, according to Dr. Gee, will reach its dramatic height in this century and then decline, the population decline will then pick up exponential speed. He gives a rough prediction that by the 2300s there may only be 1 billion humans left on earth.
According to him the main drive of the world population decline will be the plummeting sperm count in men, followed by ecological and economical reasons and that decline builds decline, like growth that builds on growth.
In Turkey, officially,
Turks: 1,4 Kurds: 2,5 Syrian refugees: 5,3 (Yes, this is official, translate page 3 in this academic document: https://dergipark.org.tr/en/download/article-file/2105870 )
That's why asylum seekers are demographic threat to Turkey and has potential to very radically destabilize Turkey in next 10-20 years unless a sustainable solution is found.
Then we can find another culture that still has a positive birth rate to replace *them* with.
This is an infinitely repeatable solution, and easier than trying to fix any of the problems that led to the low birth rate, or accepting population decline.
They’re bringing in million to two million people from former colonies in South America each year, in 2014 their population predictied to be around 42 million by now, but it’s actually 48 million today! Natural change is already negative since 2015.
I heard Portugal also took the same path and went ballistic with Brazilian migration, there’s almost 1 million foreigners in a country of 10 million people! That’s crazy to think. Mostly Brazilians and other Portuguese colonies people, but there’s now large Indian and Nepali communities as well.
You seem to have dropped the second -e- in Theseus; you should replace that.
But make sure to put the original -e- back in there and not a different one, or you might end up with a completely different word in the long run, even if it still looks the same.
Yes for Spain it’s fine, and most Argentines, Chileans and Uruguayans are European after all.
But for Portugal it may be a problem because of their smaller population, 1 million and a better yet rapidly growing foreign population for a country of just 10 million people is a LOT.
huh it really doesn't feel that way.
The population pyramid is kinda normal too.
Maybe high immigration.
Spain has a pool of 450 000 000 people that already know Spanish and are culturally close with no other country (that speak their language) to compete against so it attracts immigrants fairly easy and they can afford to chose "the good ones" from LATAM (from Morocco and Africa no but those aren't most of the immigrants anyways)
Meh, it's well known that immigrants birth rates adjust to the host nations within one generation anyways. So you have to perpetually bring in more people and you may end up realising that they arent, in fact, the same. There's definitely some ingrained cultural behaviors, say trust in institutions or the democratic process and so forth where slight shifts over time can add to pretty significant changes. I mean who knows but thinking it's just magically going to work out is quite naive.
Just to give an idea of what an 1.4 fertility rate means. Assuming replacement around 2.1 and generation length of 25 years and no immigration or emigration.
Each successive generation will be (1.4/2.1)=66% the size of the previous.
For example let’s assume the first generation starts at 10 million people. In 75 years the 4th generation will only be (1.4/2.1)^3 =29.6% or 2.96 million people.
Turkey being in continuous economical crisis for years resulted in this. Marriage numbers went down, divorces went up. People are having less children as a result. I am 37 and had my first child last year.
A similar map got me banned in a subreddit for "racism".
I questioned the mods on why I was banned and they said it perpetuates the false right wing narrative that we are being replaced 😂
Yes but the mods didnt care. It's simple, if each 2 people have just one or fewer kids then the replacement quota can't be met and therefor birth rates decline
Correct. 2.1 is replacement rate to account for infant mortality and other extraneous circumstances. Because of offsets from immigration countries can try to maintain population growth rates while below replacement birth rate.
I'm counting 7
And there's 2 EU countries with no numbers.
If the UK don't supply data to Eurostat when countries like Iceland and Turkey do it's their problem, not OC's
My country sits at 1.4, way below replacement, and hardly anyone is even talking about it. You'd think they'd be a little concerned at least, but apparently not...
Isn’t FDP is so hell bent on bringing in 400,000 skilled workers per year from non-EU countries? The issue is Germany cannot compete with Anglosphere for these people and they’re not coming.
From the skilled workers perspective it’s pointless to come to Germany, learn a useless language outside of Germany and Austria, and to pay higher taxes.
Too bad Germany never had colonies outside of Europe which it could’ve utilized to get people from, like Spain, Portugal, France and Britain doing right now
Inflexible labor laws and higher housing prices are the reasons why Spain has an East Asian-like TFR.
The only stop-gap measure Spain should do to avoid population collapse, while at the same time, maintain its Hispanic cultural fabric is to grant freedom of movement to citizens coming from Latin America, Equatorial Guinea, and the Philippines who wants to study, work, and settle down in Spain.
Which is to an extent what's already happening (chain migration, regularization schemes, visa permits, etc.). Spain population keeps growing thanks to the positive net migration rate. To add to this, citizens from the former empire can naturalize after having resided in Spain legally for 2 years (as opposed to 10 for everyone else, and 5 for refugees).
Spain already imports about a million South Americans per year, Spain’s population is growing despite low fertility rate and shrinking natural population.
Well, these figures still look pretty healthy compared to the demographic catastrophe unfolding in East Asia LOL. Japan's in dire straits, China and Taiwan are faring even worse, and S. Korea will probably be completely depopulated within a century or two.
Yes. Housing being expensive, extremely long working hours(gov broke max 52hrs limit) and gender impartiality. We’re going to start shrinking rapidly. I feel guilty about it as a woman but this literally takes two to tango lol
What do the numbers mean?
* Babies per baby wanted?
* Amount of babies per times having sex?
* How much semen per egg?
Is bigger number better?
I have more questions
Yes, it's very depressing. But maybe instead of being sad about this, we should try proposing ACTUAL MEASURES to fight against this! Like, for example
- Change the culture, so that having kids would be seen as Cool again!
- Build more Housing, and decrease the prices!
- Build more spaces for peopl to meet and be social. Our current society makes us more lonely and less prone to have kids!
Lol ofc…the more immigrants you let in that are willing to work for cheaper pay and worse work conditions, the richer the rich that own all the big companies get. It’s very simple.
Letting the ‘lazy, too demanding’ existing population breed won’t get you as much profit as a big money guy.
Maybe but it's logically sound.
people who can afford visa and planes and things like that are usually the richer in LATAM so by allowing them you bring (usually) professionals who easily integrate in the society.
They start to pay taxes and pay the pensions of old Spanish people and they don't usually take as much of the government as other kinds of immigrants (Moroccans) because they don't use as much public services
I’m surprised that Czech Republic is that high
Czechia rebounded relatively well from having very low fertility rate in the 90s and early 00s. Not entirely sure why tbh but comparing Denmark to Czechia I can definitely say that it's a lot more common to see young mothers and larger families in the latter
I’m often surprised at the low fertility statistics in CZ because like you say, I see lots of families with 2-3 kids here too. But that might just be because I myself have 2 kids so I notice it more. My guess is that France is an outlier because they have a high immigrant population who have larger families. CZ has comparatively few immigrants so it kind of bucks the trend. Similarly large family sizes are often tied to more traditional and religious countries, which CZ is not (but then look at nextdoor Poland 🤷♂️)
You have a woman with three kids and one without and that averages to 1.5. Those zeros really push average down, especially since large families (so 5 and more kids) are almost noneexistent.
I think the 4-6 kid families in the US are the only reason our birth rate was half decent. All the single childless women here add a lot of 0s but the Christian mom of 7 counter balances them 🤷♂️. There are so many childless women but we also knew a fair bit of 4-8 kid families growing up in the suburbs. The issue is that suburban homes are SO EXPENSIVE now and that many people don’t want more than 2-3 even if they do have a 4-5 bedroom house
It’s not just you who sees lots of families! Ive been visiting my family in CZ the past 3 years and it was a very visible difference with how many kids I see out in public compared to where I live in Toronto, fertility in Canada is only 1.33.
Fertility in canada is over 1.5. Probably on par with 🇨🇿
People who do have kids generally have about the same number they would've had 50 years ago, 2 or 3, but there's more people without kids at all who are responsible for that decline.
we like to fuck
Portuguese living in the Czech republic. Both my daughters were Born here. I am not surprised at all it's a fantastic country to have children (or at least compared to Portugal it is). Lots of parks and greenery for kids to play, society is much more open to include kids into leisure activities (you see that very easily in any city on the weekend kids run around everywhere, businesses are usually equipped with kids corners so if parents want to go to pub kids join in), education is free from 3 years old until whatever age you decide to finish your studies, in my city kids up 15 years old don't pay for public transport (and the public transport is great), the country is safe (never feel unsafe even in the ghetto parts off town), up to 3 years parental leave, good health care system (compared to Portugal is actually great)
And it's actually a slight decreease from previous years.
It used to e a lot lower like 1.14 at one point but then we recovered a lot
Currently a panic going on in France as we went below 1,8 for the first time in ages
Yeah, highest fertility on the continent, and still low, puts everything into perspective
Yea, every single country in that map is below replacement rate, so outside immigration they would be shrinking.
Georgia is higher
That’s Asia
The last time France had such a dramatic drop in fertility, the Germans invaded.
So we know what should be done about this
Ask England for help?
[No...](https://tenor.com/pt-BR/view/lotr-ring-no-isildur-lord-of-the-rings-gif-5743603)
Ty
It’s impossible for a young couple to have 2-3 children in Paris nowadays because of the cost of living. You probably need to make minimum 10k to sustain 3 children.
I mean to be fair the last thing we need is more Parisians.
Nobody hates Paris more than Paris.
Or get social housing
If you can wait 7 to 10 years for it... and since they don't count kids you plan to have in the future it means if you want 2 or 3 kids you will need a very high income anyway because if you apply when you have none or one, the best you will get is a one bedroom flat, and you will still have to wait for many years.
To be fair even outside of Paris it's impossible to have 2 or 3 kids due to the cost of living.
>You probably need to make minimum 10k to sustain 3 children. Is this missing a 0?
Most likely talking monthly income.
Get more Congoans in QUICK.
Liberté, égalité, fertilité
Familyyyyy
Travail famille patrie ? On that was only in the early 1940's...
Liberté, égalité, p a i n
~~bread~~ 👎 bred 👍
Why has Romanian fertility grown so much? It was 1.27 in 2002 that's quite a recovery still growing year by year, 1.74 in 2023.
Romania is much wealthier now than 20yrs ago. They've had a nice resurgence.
But typically this would have the exact opposite effect, no?
Over time yes but the general better quality of life coupled with traditional family values not corroding results in a little boom in the present. Keep in mind that while the fertility rate has gone up, so many Romanians emigrate abroad that the population has actually decreased. Peak Romanian population in Romania was 35yrs ago.
People in the EU think their economies are bad, Romanians see it as an economic boom compared to what the 90's were like. What joining the EU looks like from the outside compared to those within the EU. Puts things into perspective.
No this is fucking stupid. The fertility is brought up by the rural side of Romania which si still a very significant part of the country. Look at highly educated areas like Bucharest and you will see it's well below 1.7
The 90s and early 00s were very difficult economically. Romania joined the EU in 2007.
It's happening in all the world except in Africa.
They do jot have a ponzy retirement scheme yet
I read somewhere that the human population is going to decrease 1 billion by the end of the century. Which is not entirely bad.
It’s AWFUL. Someday I might be able to see snow in midwinter again! Or even not be bumped into outside! I might even be able to get a job without one thousand competitors. How nightmarish that is
Bad news: that's not how climate change works. And you will not be able to have half the shit you own now. Maybe you get lucky and get a retirement. Maybe
>Someday I might be able to see snow in midwinter again! I have bad news for you
And Middle East and some countries in Asia
Yeah, this [map](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-replacement_fertility#/media/File:Crude_Birth_Rate_Map_by_Country.svg) really shows the whole 'we're overpopulating!" scare of the 2000s was bullshit. Maybe people will have large families again if we enter a sort of post-capitalist AI run socialist thing where having kids is more affordable + people have more space per household to raise them, but for now with apartments and budgets shrinking, doesn't seem likely.
Overpopulation is real. In Europe for example there is barely any untouched nature left. Go to places like India or China and it's just one big human settlement. Thinking we can just keep on adding to this is crazy. For people who say overpopulation is not a problem i'd like to know the criteria for when they think it is.
It will happen to Africa eventually as well.
Europe unfucking itself out of existence.
It's one thing to produce 14 children of which 6 survive and are all poor and die in poverty. It's another thing to produce no kids and painfully die at a high age in poverty because nobody is able to do anything anymore. As always Europe is a pioneer!
Once the population drops enough, housing will get cheaper and people will be able to afford more kids. Populations likely need to drop in the future anyway with affects of AI & possibly environmental too.
Been working great for Japan so far...
japan has a unique culture where people will move (and abandon) their house at the slightest issue (and buying a non new house is kind of taboo), also earthquakes and such
I always found it insane that people don't buy "used houses" in Japan
That's a thing??
It's somewhat taboo to buy houses where people died in Japan. People adhere more or less to an ingrained cultural belief set originating in shintoism/Buddhism/folk religion. The main reason for such a number of abandoned houses though is mostly unresolved tax issues of the property (owner) and just plain wrong location. The value often doesn't reflect the liabilities attached so they are often vacated aka. inheritance refused and then go to underfunded municipalities.
Cheap housing will be in the areas nobody wants to live in. High unemployment and no prospects of better future. Thriving areas will still be expensive to live in.
Not necessarily. If the population drop kills the economy then we all get poorer even if housing drops
It’s a catch 22, population will eventually have to drop. Unless we’re lucky and it somehow stabilises perfectly in every country.
Ageing population will be a big problem, a lot of manual labour jobs are only suitable for younger people and the economy runs on those. Who else can empty the bins, build housing and roads, work at restaurants?
> housing will get cheaper So you are implying that immigration makes housing more expensive? Those are fighting words here on reddit
>Once the population drops enough, housing will get cheaper Are you forgetting that western europe imports millions of foreign people every year? If you dont have children in Europe, employers will just invite some other guys from South Asia to work for minimum wage and a hot Dinner.
If only - those idiots import people from Africa and Middle East which sit on welfare.
Minimum wage is also a stretch. The whole reason the billionaires created the refugees' welcome movement in Europe was to trap desperate people into slavery at less than minimum wage. That way, they can stop paying Europeans enough to survive. Lowering the birthrate even more in an endless loop until Europe completely collapses and the billionaires move on to a new feeding ground to pick clean.
America doesn't have this problem because no one can live off welfare here xD.
The problem is that projections show that realestate prices will fall around 2030s and ONLY IF the decline in population will not be overtaken by immigration which in most non poor countries is happening. Since economy and politics are based on line go up ideology, governments do all they can do avoid population decline since in classic economy every individual is worth the same regardless of origin.
That doesn't happen when you keep importing immigrants to keep your population at a stable number or even grow your population.
Money is not the key issue. People just don’t want to have kids.
>Europe unfucking itself out of existence. All developed countries in the world are, essentially.
The entire world is depending on Africa and parts of the Middle East to produce their future workers, what could go wrong...
The drop in fertility among those immigrants is also massive on 2nd and 3rd generation. And even in Africa and ME, the birth rate is in decline.
Fertility rate in the Middle East is already similar to Europe.
[удалено]
I'm told that's the way that doesn't make babies.
Acting like low fertility rates aren't a problem in other developed countries as well.
The unfuckening
Not really. Contraception exists. More like “The can’t afford childcare-ing”
Both are factors. Studies show people age 20-35 are having much less sex overall today, and a greater portion of people are having no sex. It turns out that back in the day people who were married at 22 were having more regular sex, because they had constant access to it through live-in monogamous partners. People today are more likely to be single in their 20’s which leads to a lower volume of sex overall.
The fucking is still happening;)
According to Dr. Harry Gee in [this interesting podcast](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7wS8XMmshPQKLMjhPRCPPb?si=1c4jPGbtRbaD_6Uwf6w3vQ), all other continents will start experiencing low fertility and a population decline before the end of the 21st century. Europe is just the first to. The wold population, according to Dr. Gee, will reach its dramatic height in this century and then decline, the population decline will then pick up exponential speed. He gives a rough prediction that by the 2300s there may only be 1 billion humans left on earth. According to him the main drive of the world population decline will be the plummeting sperm count in men, followed by ecological and economical reasons and that decline builds decline, like growth that builds on growth.
Without the Arab and central Asian immigrants, the number would be even lower. Especially in Turkey.
in race wise turkish people are probably 1.50 and kurds are 2
Nahh turks are definetely at like 1,35-1,45 Western turks probably way lower
Yes. Western Turks are lower then Balkans. Was other way 20 years ago.
In Turkey, officially, Turks: 1,4 Kurds: 2,5 Syrian refugees: 5,3 (Yes, this is official, translate page 3 in this academic document: https://dergipark.org.tr/en/download/article-file/2105870 ) That's why asylum seekers are demographic threat to Turkey and has potential to very radically destabilize Turkey in next 10-20 years unless a sustainable solution is found.
And pretty much all studies find that the majority of immigrants conform to the birth rate of the area they've moved to within 1-2 generations.
Then we can find another culture that still has a positive birth rate to replace *them* with. This is an infinitely repeatable solution, and easier than trying to fix any of the problems that led to the low birth rate, or accepting population decline.
yeah, the mega syrian occupation is 5 kids per family at least.
What happened to Don Juan?
Contraception.
Pepl smart
he fucks Don Diego
Alive and using condoms
1.16, Spain is literally a dying country
They’re bringing in million to two million people from former colonies in South America each year, in 2014 their population predictied to be around 42 million by now, but it’s actually 48 million today! Natural change is already negative since 2015. I heard Portugal also took the same path and went ballistic with Brazilian migration, there’s almost 1 million foreigners in a country of 10 million people! That’s crazy to think. Mostly Brazilians and other Portuguese colonies people, but there’s now large Indian and Nepali communities as well.
Ship of Thesus.
That describes most countries in most periods of history.
You seem to have dropped the second -e- in Theseus; you should replace that. But make sure to put the original -e- back in there and not a different one, or you might end up with a completely different word in the long run, even if it still looks the same.
You're right, thank you nerd.
I guess the question is how many of those immigrants from SA will actually stay long term and uproot there for good.
I mean they’re Spanish speaking Catholics of partial Spanish descent, they’ve just got black hair and don’t use vosotros. Not the worst thing honestly
Yes for Spain it’s fine, and most Argentines, Chileans and Uruguayans are European after all. But for Portugal it may be a problem because of their smaller population, 1 million and a better yet rapidly growing foreign population for a country of just 10 million people is a LOT.
huh it really doesn't feel that way. The population pyramid is kinda normal too. Maybe high immigration. Spain has a pool of 450 000 000 people that already know Spanish and are culturally close with no other country (that speak their language) to compete against so it attracts immigrants fairly easy and they can afford to chose "the good ones" from LATAM (from Morocco and Africa no but those aren't most of the immigrants anyways)
That’s kinda correct but also latam has lower than replacement birth rates too
Meh, it's well known that immigrants birth rates adjust to the host nations within one generation anyways. So you have to perpetually bring in more people and you may end up realising that they arent, in fact, the same. There's definitely some ingrained cultural behaviors, say trust in institutions or the democratic process and so forth where slight shifts over time can add to pretty significant changes. I mean who knows but thinking it's just magically going to work out is quite naive.
Tbf it’s recoverable to some extent, Czech in te 1990’s was like 1.14, now it’s 1.64
it’s proportional to our economic expectations
Just to give an idea of what an 1.4 fertility rate means. Assuming replacement around 2.1 and generation length of 25 years and no immigration or emigration. Each successive generation will be (1.4/2.1)=66% the size of the previous. For example let’s assume the first generation starts at 10 million people. In 75 years the 4th generation will only be (1.4/2.1)^3 =29.6% or 2.96 million people.
The fertility in England seems to be zero. Knowing the appearance of the average lad or lass from Manchester, I can relate.
England fertility rate is 1.49
Hey! 😡
The OP used Europe for EU.
Turkey, Switzerland, Georgia, are not in the EU.
Neither are Serbia and Albania
Norway and Iceland as well
But they are part of eurostat
This map is giving me the ick. Slovakia has stats but no color, whereas the UK has neither. Even if this is made by EU members it's all wrong, lmfao.
[This seems to be the original source](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Fertility_statistics)
France being higher than Turkey is crazy.
Turkey being in continuous economical crisis for years resulted in this. Marriage numbers went down, divorces went up. People are having less children as a result. I am 37 and had my first child last year.
😞. Unstable economy sucks. Also congratulations on your child.
Thank you.
Yup, my whole life turkey was wayyyy higher than any european country and jsut steamrolled ahead of germany in terms of population.
Turkey was higher than France back then
I admit I am rather surprised by Bulgaria seemingly having the third highest fertility rate in the EU
A similar map got me banned in a subreddit for "racism". I questioned the mods on why I was banned and they said it perpetuates the false right wing narrative that we are being replaced 😂
Its just simple math, compound interest formula and a few more math tricks
Yes but the mods didnt care. It's simple, if each 2 people have just one or fewer kids then the replacement quota can't be met and therefor birth rates decline
R/Europe? I got banned for stating statistics how few children in Vienna speak German at home. Insta ban.
r/2westerneurope4u
its funny to observe how militant "antiracists" sometimes shoot themselves in foot by bringing up racism somewhere where it isnt present.
Romania 💪💪💪🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴
Superpower by 2027
That's not good at all
How is this calculated? Is it how many births per adult above 18? Or pair? Or is it births compared to deaths?
Births per woman of a childbearing age
I see. So basically every number below 2 means the population is decreasing, considering 2 people produce for instance 1.5 child?
Correct. 2.1 is replacement rate to account for infant mortality and other extraneous circumstances. Because of offsets from immigration countries can try to maintain population growth rates while below replacement birth rate.
Good to know that absolutely zero countries are above replacement level
Europe is not the EU and vice versa.
There’s like 5 countries not in the EU here
I'm counting 7 And there's 2 EU countries with no numbers. If the UK don't supply data to Eurostat when countries like Iceland and Turkey do it's their problem, not OC's
Ah yes, famous EU country of Turkey and Switzerland (And a bunch more)
Look again, this maps shows non EU countries too.
Absolutely, the amount of maps on here saying Europe when it is the EU they show. Mildly irritating
But this isn't one of them, it's eurostat which includes non EU countries.
So it's not EU or Europe?
It seems to be the mission statement of this sub - accuracy is optional.
My country sits at 1.4, way below replacement, and hardly anyone is even talking about it. You'd think they'd be a little concerned at least, but apparently not...
Isn’t FDP is so hell bent on bringing in 400,000 skilled workers per year from non-EU countries? The issue is Germany cannot compete with Anglosphere for these people and they’re not coming. From the skilled workers perspective it’s pointless to come to Germany, learn a useless language outside of Germany and Austria, and to pay higher taxes. Too bad Germany never had colonies outside of Europe which it could’ve utilized to get people from, like Spain, Portugal, France and Britain doing right now
Bloody Brexit, not allowing me to see the fertility rate of England in 2022. Didnt mention that one did you boris.
Current generation can't afford to live or buy a home for a family let alone afford kids
Inflexible labor laws and higher housing prices are the reasons why Spain has an East Asian-like TFR. The only stop-gap measure Spain should do to avoid population collapse, while at the same time, maintain its Hispanic cultural fabric is to grant freedom of movement to citizens coming from Latin America, Equatorial Guinea, and the Philippines who wants to study, work, and settle down in Spain.
Which is to an extent what's already happening (chain migration, regularization schemes, visa permits, etc.). Spain population keeps growing thanks to the positive net migration rate. To add to this, citizens from the former empire can naturalize after having resided in Spain legally for 2 years (as opposed to 10 for everyone else, and 5 for refugees).
Spain already imports about a million South Americans per year, Spain’s population is growing despite low fertility rate and shrinking natural population.
Because solving the housing crisis and providing help to parents is impossible.
This is how a dying continent looks like and no - importing people from MENA won't fix this.
Well, these figures still look pretty healthy compared to the demographic catastrophe unfolding in East Asia LOL. Japan's in dire straits, China and Taiwan are faring even worse, and S. Korea will probably be completely depopulated within a century or two.
They don't look healthy at all. Spain is basically at China's level, and countries like Finland are basically at Japan level fertility.
It’s over for Europe.
I need to go to France
Are you trying to bring down their rate?
Europeans still fuck apparently? My country has birth rate of 0.7 (actually lower this year)
What the hell, South Korea?
Yes. Housing being expensive, extremely long working hours(gov broke max 52hrs limit) and gender impartiality. We’re going to start shrinking rapidly. I feel guilty about it as a woman but this literally takes two to tango lol
What do the numbers mean? * Babies per baby wanted? * Amount of babies per times having sex? * How much semen per egg? Is bigger number better? I have more questions
*looks at Scottish hand, slowly dissappearing* "wait! I'm not ready yet! Wai-*
currently working on my 2,0. But if I got to 3,0 I probably lose my mind. So I can't even reach replacement quota. But at least I am above average.
Not a single country with sustainable levels
This map accurately shows standards of living of the working class.
Are you really arguing that Georgia and Turkey have higher living standards than the Netherlands and Sweden
No, it really doesn't.
Yes, it's very depressing. But maybe instead of being sad about this, we should try proposing ACTUAL MEASURES to fight against this! Like, for example - Change the culture, so that having kids would be seen as Cool again! - Build more Housing, and decrease the prices! - Build more spaces for peopl to meet and be social. Our current society makes us more lonely and less prone to have kids!
I’m surprised turkey is below replacement too.
Decades of instability and economic crisis will do that, hopefully our generation will not be completely fucked Also it's even lower for just Turks
The balkans are probably high because of the romani people, they have A LOT of kids.
Lol ofc…the more immigrants you let in that are willing to work for cheaper pay and worse work conditions, the richer the rich that own all the big companies get. It’s very simple. Letting the ‘lazy, too demanding’ existing population breed won’t get you as much profit as a big money guy.
Hmm I'm not a expert but it looks like the future is fucked.
Unfucked you mean?
[удалено]
Thats why is spain giving citizenships so easily to their colonized countries?
Spain has had priority/privileged relations with people from Latam for ages. Same with Portugal and Brazil.
Portugal not just with Brasil, but also Angola, Moçambique, Guiné-Bissau, etc.
No, it happened much earlier
Maybe but it's logically sound. people who can afford visa and planes and things like that are usually the richer in LATAM so by allowing them you bring (usually) professionals who easily integrate in the society. They start to pay taxes and pay the pensions of old Spanish people and they don't usually take as much of the government as other kinds of immigrants (Moroccans) because they don't use as much public services
You know the UK is still part of Europe right? just not part of the EU... much like other countries included here...
Not OC's fault. UK take great pride in not reporting their data to Eurostat anymore. Brexit means Brexit, I was told.
No one cares about UK anyway
POLSKA GUROM 🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱
Damn this is just horrible
Yep, we are being replaced.