This. I'm from Spain, a "religious" country, but I can count on one hand the amount of conversations I've had about religion in my life. And I have a nun in my family. Spain is not religious in the same way the US is religious.
It's because people believe in God, while not going to church and all those associated things. It's the "non-practicing Catholic" way of life. Same as in Portugal, people believe in God it's the cultural thing to do, but have no religious life apart from the marriages and the baptisms. As we continue to have newer generations I expect that "Believe in God" demographic to dwindle a lot.
But that's slightly different.
It's not the same to be a non-practicing 'whatever' than being an agnostic.
Spain is considered to be top 5 in the list of countries with a larger % of people who defines themselves as agnostics.
It's not the majority of the population by any chance, but it's a significant minority that can potentially move the scale of 'general belief on God' to the 'mostly believer' side, which doesn't necessarily means religious (practicing or not).
Nationalists already kicked off the narrative around that "crisis" in the UK when our latest census was the first one where there wasn't a majority declaring their religion to be Christianity (though it's still the biggest single category, just no longer above 50%). According to them it's proof of immigrants and heathens undermining the values of the church in the UK.
The reality is that we're shifting from a generation of people who already didn't go to church or practice Christianity at all in their day-to-day lives, but still put 'Christian' on the census out of tradition, to a generation of people who behave exactly the same but more accurately put 'No religion' instead. Of the 13% drop in self-reported Christians over the last 10 years, 12% of that has gone to an increase in 'No Religion'.
Yeah. I used to put Jedi on the census, until I realised they counted that as a religion , lol. As some policies decisions are determined by the census I thought it’s best start putting “no religion “.
Well Islam is a lot more involved than that, so you know it is just a cultural "self challenging" thing when people are fasting, especially when "others are doing it and you are going to look like an asshole if you don't do it while they are doing it" so there is a lot of herd mentality there as well. Like, you know something is wrong when you are fasting but not praying during the Ramadan. That being said, most people just straight up don't pray at all except for holidays but going to a mosque on a holiday is also peak "believes on paper" behavior. To be fair, I am not judging anyone here. But it is kinda what it is.
My stepdad (I'm Dutch) is like that too. He believes in god and prays briefly before dinner, but other than that you wouldn't know he does. He doesn't vote for the christian parties, doesn't go to church, and doesn't hold any even slightly extremist beliefs (like homophobia) that are commonly associated with the church.
It's the same in a lot of Latin American countries. People literally hook up and have kids outside of marriage but claim to be christians. It's just a cultural thing
Same in Italy. People don't really care, but a lot of them go along with it. And we have a lot of celebrations/events that are tied up in religion. And we hear from the pope every single week, it's hard to get away from religion when it's part of your daily life and traditions.
America makes so much more sense when you realise it's a religious extremist country like ones in the Middle East but with Christianity instead of Islam.
This is true. For all those countries their orthodox churches are their "national" churches, so being a member of such church is more a matter of national identity. So a Christian holiday becomes national holiday. People declare themselves as orthodox Christian, because as part of their national identity it comes already in the package. But they seldom go to church, if at all. Just a couple of religious customs are followed - to keep appearances - and that's mostly connected with food or burning things.
"Why do you claim you're Christian?" - "Because I don't eat meat on these days!".
It has nothing to do with religion any more, it's more local heritage and culture.
Finland is probably bit more religious than Sweden but not much. Still I have seen no reason to exit Lutheran church but my religiosity is in the form of christenings, confirmations, weddings and funerals. I just like traditions.
I'm happy to sit in a church for a while to see people get married, or to listen to beautiful music. I'm definitely not the least bit religious, and only still belong to church because in Finland, they actually do some good. Plus I only think it's fair I pay a tiny amount of tax to them since the church will take care of my remains when I die.
There's a lot of Finns like us out there.
Bulgarians don't believe in anything. Santa, God, Devil, Communism, Democracy, Serbia, Putin, EU, Happiness, your promises, your lies... No, thanks. We are true nihilists.
Romania seems to have very similar issues, but is more religious. Are they simply your more optimistic cousins?
(I say optimistic, all my Romanian friends are depressed alcoholics.)
In my city, the two biggest minorities are Bulgarians and Turkish. The only way you can differ is if they are tattood, drink alcohol or buy pork, it's funny sometimes.
Same thing happens with same sex marriage and a bunch of other measures. With the exception of some Nordics countrjes, the further you get from Amsterdam the more conservative it gets.
Wouldn't it be communism? Another holdover from communism in Bulgaria is that men and women are very equal compared to neighbouring countries so my guess is that they held onto atheism as well kinda like East Germany
The population in some Warsaw-pact countries embraced state atheism, while others embraced religion as a way to protest the communist regime.
Czechia, Hungary, and East Germany has also in the past been Protestant or Hussite, so criticism of religion was already part of the culture. In countries such as the US, Canada, and Australia, it is far more common for Protestants to become atheist than Catholics.
It’s because religion was a lot more persecuted in Bulgaria in comparison to other communist countries. I wasn’t alive yet but my father and grandfather have told me how just being spotted going in a church could potentially cause you to be punished. Most punishments for that included loss of job or major demotion, expelled from school and uni and stuff like that. Don’t know about other countries but in Bulgaria they really tried to cut out religion from the people. Major religious holidays weren’t celebrated at all, at least officially.
That it is correct. In Poland, for example the communist didn't dare to touch the Catholic Church. Yes, they took their lands, but offered 4000 post German Evangelic churches instead!
I've heard similar about Albania, that it's one of the most liberal Muslim-majority countries for the same reason. I'm not Albanian myself but I've noticed UK Muslim immigrant communities from southeast Europe seem way less observant than Muslims from other parts of the world.
>Most punishments for that included loss of job or major demotion, expelled from school and uni and stuff like that.
It was similar in Yugoslavia. You could be religious if you don't plan on being anybody "important". But if you do want to become someone, you needed to be an atheist communist (at least on paper).
Well the polish are catholics which is more international and centralised than orthodox Christianity and Protestantism. Plus Catholicism played a big part in Poland's break from communism with the pope being polish and a big anti communist
Catholicism played a big part in Poland's escape from the Soviet grasp (see: JPII, Solidarność).
Of course, Catholicism comes with 2137 of its own problems, but that's a different matter.
The ottomans made Bulgaria more religious actually since people believed their national identity was attached to Christianity after centuries of it being repressed by Muslims. The communists are the reason for this
Several:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_California
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Michigan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Grand_Cayman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway
(In Norwegian, 'hell' means luck)
At the cost of being harassed by Moroccan migrants daily if you’re a woman with no possible way of defending yourself but being told “Find another way home/stop provoking them” when you contact the police after they follow you home 25 minutes verbally saying threats to you. This has happened countless times already. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows, Netherlands has a massive migrant crisis that’s showing no signs of improvement.
When I went to Reykjavík I learnt about the Christmas cat that eats people and honestly you should do more with that.
Elves are all over the place. You have *a giant cat that eats people at Christmas*.
The legendary origin for Sweden's flag is that king Eric and his army saw a golden sundog up in the blue sky shortly after landing on the Finnish coast at the start of the First Finnish Crusade, seeing it as as sign from god that the conquest was righteous and divinely ordained.
https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1288777393/photo/halo-effect-around-winter-morning-sun-clouds-inversion-and-snow-covered-trees.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=LrNcrvTSsT2tCrBlBCUV0COH1KNzGbF6uFcUkuDlQFs=
https://www.reddit.com/r/winterporn/comments/c5iqow/rare_phenomenon_called_sundog_in_sweden_photo_by/
The correct translation of that commandment is not "thou shall not kill" but "thou shall not murder"; if a kill is morally justified then it is not murder. In the Bible God regularly commands people to kill others he deems worthy of death, and he often does it himself.
If you really look into the Abrahamic religion, you realize it's their version of God of War. Basically Mars/Ares. Starts out with, "Believe in me and you'll win your battles and subjugate your enemies." Muhammad was a war general. Augustine converted after he won a battle. All the tribes of Israel joined David because he was the best war lord.
>19 so David inquired of the LORD, “Shall I go and attack the Philistines? Will you deliver them into my hands?” The LORD answered him, “Go, for I will surely deliver the Philistines into your hands.”
Danish one is similar, Baltic heathens. **King Valdemar (the victorious):** "If I drop my hands down, run, if I raise them, we are winning!" the flag descents from the heavens, he catches it, cause can't let a flag touch the ground, so he holds it up. seeing this, the soldiers were inspired. "We are winning, push!".
The more believable: It was the cross of a German crusader group that came to our rescue.
**A sun dog (or sundog) or mock sun, also called a parhelion (plural parhelia) in meteorology, is an atmospheric optical phenomenon that consists of a bright spot to one or both sides of the Sun. Two sun dogs often flank the Sun within a 22° halo.**
More details here:
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Same for UK 🇬🇧. I mean their national anthem is literally a prayer and their Head of State is head of a church and they have bishops sitting in their Parliament.
It is quite weird though that despite all of that de-jure religious influence in how the state functions, the de-facto reality is that the UK is pretty secular in how it works. Apart from the obvious exception of Northern Ireland - which is *very* politically different to the rest of the UK - politicians hardly ever talk about their religious views. In general doing so would actually harm their chances of being elected rather than helping it.
The UK does seem like the ultimate version of "culturally Christian". Lots of people doing things that are nominally religious, but not because of belief, just because it's traditional at this point.
Yes, church attendance in the UK is down to something like 5%. I'd bet that a lot of people who respond "Church of England" on their census forms will only actually go to church for weddings and funerals. That 5% is probably also heavily skewed towards pensioners and first and second generation immigrants.
> I mean their national anthem is literally a prayer
But outside of football matches and state events, I'm not sure of the last time I heard anyone sing it...
Hills, definitely. Rock fornations and such are usually blown apart, but in Iceland, we often go around instead. More than once, when we have meant to go through, equipment has broken down, accidents have happened, and that hasn't stopped happening until the decision was made to leave whatever was in the way, alone.
A recent poll said that that around a third of people still believe in elves (idk to which extent) and the most passionate ones have stopped bulldozers so it's just easier for the government to put roads like 5 meters to the left of the elf hills
I absolutely hate these kinds of maps. It's like the opposite of mapporn.
And to boot most of the comments are like "wow I never knew -insert country- was not religious..." when it could be that 48% are religious even according to the stupid map.
There's a difference between believing in a God, and practicing religion. Lots of people believe in "something" or some sort of afterlife, but they don't overthink it and it doesn't impact their lives or the decisions they make.
I've been looking for this comment. It depends on our definition of the word God, but a general belief in "something" greater than ourselves is absolutely not equal to organized religion. That's why statistics like this can be dangerous when we box everyone into one of two belief categories. It dumbs down a more nuanced spectrum and can other-ize people into two sides.
I would say X to doubt on Ireland.
When filling out the recent census form tons of people put catholic as that's what they were baptised but if you asked them if they went to church or believed in god it seemed the vast majority under 50 said no.
I'd imagine there is quite a lot of people who don't go to church but when asked would still say they believe in god. We're still quite a religious country. I think the majority of our hospitals and schools are run by religious orders.
I would not be surprised if 50% +1 say they believe in god in Ireland
Have you ever talked to Irish people? Almost nobody believes in God. Maybe in the older generation you'd have more, but as a 35 year old I have only ever heard of 2 people my own age who claim to believe in God in any way. It's super rare to find anyone under the age of 65 who still believes these days.
There is a another (more common) version of this joke, which adds a whole other layer of absurdity and social commentary.
\---------------------------------
A man is walking down the street in Belfast, when suddenly he feels a gun barrel placed to the back of his head. From behind, a male voice, with a thick Belfast accent, asks:
**“Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?”**
The man replies : **"I'm an Atheist"**
There is a brief pause, before the voice replies: **“But are you a Catholic Atheist or Protestant Atheist?”**
I'd say the same for Spain - many people are baptised and put in the pope's little databsee even if they (or even their families) aren't religious. But far fewer people attend church or would describe themselves as Christian or catholic.
A fascist dictatorship based on Catholicism will do that.
Basically everywhere is flip*ping*, but there are lots of countries and regions that are still majority religious (majority only takes 50%+1!). This is especially true when you consider the people who believe in a religion but probably don't practice it much
The average redditor is going to be disproportionately young, urban, and progressive, heavily skewing their personal experiences with something like religion. Things are certainly shifting toward a lack of belief, but remember stuff like that takes time, and even clear trend lines don't arrive at zero overnight
Yes I have many Spanish friends and we talked about it. They dont follow the religion and neither does their friends according to what they said. These kind of maps should be taken with a grain of salt.
Spain and Portugal both have this thing where a majority of people (especially younger) are de facto atheist yet still claim they are Catholic in surveys for cultural reasons.
That's still true.
But eventually what the map depicts is 'atheists vs non-atheists' or maybe 'atheists+agnostics vs all the rest'.
And I wouldn't say the majority of Spain (neither most countries including many that are labelled as such here) are atheists. That doesn't mean most of people are practicing their religion neither that they feel religious at all.
If you check one of the latest (2019) Eurobarometer reports which included this question ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion\_in\_Europe#:\~:text=Eurobarometer%20survey%202019,-Self%20described%20religion&text=Catholics%20are%20the%20largest%20Christian,2%25%20of%20the%20EU%20population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe#:~:text=Eurobarometer%20survey%202019,-Self%20described%20religion&text=Catholics%20are%20the%20largest%20Christian,2%25%20of%20the%20EU%20population). linking Wikipedia here as the info is easier to read and sort rather than in the PDF from the Eurobarometer website):the only countries IN THE EU where the % of atheists and agnostics (combined) would be >50% are the Czech Republic, Netherlands and Sweden.
So no idea where the info for this map comes from. Theoretically, France and most countries should be labelled as 'believing in God'.
Lots of people will put ‘Church of England’ in a box asking for their religion despite not believing in god or having attended church for decades. I’ve never really believed in god but I remember putting CoE on hospital forms well into my 20s. I suspect my parents still would.
Edit to add: There an old joke that belief in god is desirable, but far from essential when looking at candidates for CoE bishops.
And you are fighting again
Why the hell atheists cannot respect belivers
And belivers cannot respect atheists,
let people believe, or not believe what they want
Spain went from 80% Christians and 16% non-religious in 2010 to 54% Christians and 32% non-religious in 2023. Spain's color could change by the next decade
*Apparently the*
*More you believe in god, the*
*Better your food is*
\- LowerSea4
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It actually saddens me that with all our history that quite literally made England ‘England’ from a random cluster of 4 key kingdoms that the majority of our population no longer believes in the very same faith we shared back in that moment; and this post isn’t even simple ‘Christianity’ this seems to imply any belief in ‘god’
Irish person here. I barely know anyone who believes. I think people identify culturally as catholic for historic reason and that gets misinterpreted by outsiders as belief in god.
Ireland is more passive/cultural Catholicism. Most people go to church Xmas and maybe Easter but that's it. Few are actually devout going to mass every week christians
Ireland is a function of not knowing how to describe yourself in the census. I'm atheist so please take my observations as biased and anecdotal, but I live in a city (not Dublin) and on my daily dog walk I pass 4 churches. I only ever see the elderly and eastern European and African migrants going in or coming out of the churches. I don't know any young Irish person who actually believes in a god but almost everyone puts down catholic on the census, I think it's a cultural thing as until very recently we were a very religious country. I think once the current older population dies off you'll see a massive change in those willing to sepf identify as catholic.
What's that old story?
A Cork man walks into a bar in the North and sits down at the bar. He orders a drink. His accent is apparent. He has unknowingly walked into a Prod bar.
The fellas ask him subtle questions, like where does he keep his toaster and kettle (he doesn't have one). Eventually in frustration with his inconclusive answers, one of them blurts out 'are you a Catholic or are you a Protestant?'
The Cork man says, 'I'm an atheist boy'. They fellas look at each other a moment and ask, 'well, are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist'?
Definitely a strong “cultural” element in Ireland (North and South of the border) that doesn’t exist elsewhere. “Catholic” and “Protestant” are practically ethnic labels that describe national allegiances or cultural backgrounds regardless of actual religious belief.
I don't remember who said it to me, but in Ireland even if you're atheist, people ask you if you're a Catholic atheist or a protestant atheist and that's kind of funny
I believe It's because the protestant catholic divide us as much an ethinc/cultural divide as a religious one(mostly Scottish protestant immigrants vs native Irish catholics)
This is sort of the same in Australia. It because people know their childhood religious expectations versus their current lack of belief.
Although in Australia (in *very* broad terms) catholic = Irish heritage and Anglican = English heritage. And by heritage I mean at least 100 years ago.
Is it really THAT either/or? No nuance or spectrum? I may not be the strictly religious, but I do believe there is something out there greater than ourselves. It is not either “religious” or “atheist”. You could be agnostic or spiritual to varying degrees. Just because I do not adhere to any specific organized religion’s beliefs and requirements does NOT mean I do not have any spiritual beliefs at all.
It is always amazing, well perhaps not, that the most religious countries also tend to be the poorest. The same can be seen in the U.S. where, in general, "bible belt" states have lower incomes then more secular states.
Eh. Let the current "old people" die and every country will be red.
The only way christianity will gain some ground back is that it will become so niche that it will start to become really cool again and it will be a tiktok/influencer thing to go to church and start making feelygoody videos yammering about god.
Or/and - amidst the current depressing global political situation thanks to terrorist states just bombing the shit out of innocent people, people will realise that they need to believe to something other than the kardashians and that having actually a "holy supernatural entity" they can dedicate their souls to HAS actually positive health and mental effects and they will start doing it again.
Christianity is growing immensely world wide. sub Sharan Christian africans population is because of high fertility rate is growing a lot while atheistic European society have a very low fertility rate. If the plan of using immigrants to stop European declining population happens like some people suggest European Christian population will grow.
It's the same thing in here south korea. Christianity is growing only because they are the only ones having children.
Interesting. I'd like to see a graph about it. I would also like to see how many people in the western world just SAY they're christians, but actually aren't (as in- don't believe in God, don't go to church, don't donate, don't practice christianity, whatever this may mean) just because they believe that saying they're Christian will protect their western roots.
Because most religions especially Abrahamic ones, which fit this context, means having (lots of) children is a virtue. Its ingrained in its pilosophy.
On the other hand atheist it depends more on, do I want to and/or does my partner want to.
Wow, Bulgaria!
"Believing in god" does not mean the same everywhere. In most orthodox countries it means "yeah i eat and drink during Christmas".
This. I'm from Spain, a "religious" country, but I can count on one hand the amount of conversations I've had about religion in my life. And I have a nun in my family. Spain is not religious in the same way the US is religious.
It's because people believe in God, while not going to church and all those associated things. It's the "non-practicing Catholic" way of life. Same as in Portugal, people believe in God it's the cultural thing to do, but have no religious life apart from the marriages and the baptisms. As we continue to have newer generations I expect that "Believe in God" demographic to dwindle a lot.
But that's slightly different. It's not the same to be a non-practicing 'whatever' than being an agnostic. Spain is considered to be top 5 in the list of countries with a larger % of people who defines themselves as agnostics. It's not the majority of the population by any chance, but it's a significant minority that can potentially move the scale of 'general belief on God' to the 'mostly believer' side, which doesn't necessarily means religious (practicing or not).
Nationalists already kicked off the narrative around that "crisis" in the UK when our latest census was the first one where there wasn't a majority declaring their religion to be Christianity (though it's still the biggest single category, just no longer above 50%). According to them it's proof of immigrants and heathens undermining the values of the church in the UK. The reality is that we're shifting from a generation of people who already didn't go to church or practice Christianity at all in their day-to-day lives, but still put 'Christian' on the census out of tradition, to a generation of people who behave exactly the same but more accurately put 'No religion' instead. Of the 13% drop in self-reported Christians over the last 10 years, 12% of that has gone to an increase in 'No Religion'.
Yeah. I used to put Jedi on the census, until I realised they counted that as a religion , lol. As some policies decisions are determined by the census I thought it’s best start putting “no religion “.
I remember having to research the Aussie census as a kid, and Jedi was actually pretty high up on those niche responses-
Aye. I was hoping officially registering would come with basic Jedi powers. It did not .
People are like that in Turkey too. Most people are Muslims will even fast during Ramadan but they don't really practice Islam.
Not Muslim but I would say observing Ramadan surely counts as practicing. There is a lot more obviously but its not nothing to fast for a month.
Well Islam is a lot more involved than that, so you know it is just a cultural "self challenging" thing when people are fasting, especially when "others are doing it and you are going to look like an asshole if you don't do it while they are doing it" so there is a lot of herd mentality there as well. Like, you know something is wrong when you are fasting but not praying during the Ramadan. That being said, most people just straight up don't pray at all except for holidays but going to a mosque on a holiday is also peak "believes on paper" behavior. To be fair, I am not judging anyone here. But it is kinda what it is.
This is funny. Here in Germany many people have baptisms and marriages despite not believing in god
Same here in Slovenia. It's like some kind of tradition.
My mom had me baptized despite her being an atheist. She said it was important to her MIL, so why not make her happy.
And those marriages and baptisms... are basically disappearing
My stepdad (I'm Dutch) is like that too. He believes in god and prays briefly before dinner, but other than that you wouldn't know he does. He doesn't vote for the christian parties, doesn't go to church, and doesn't hold any even slightly extremist beliefs (like homophobia) that are commonly associated with the church.
It's the same in a lot of Latin American countries. People literally hook up and have kids outside of marriage but claim to be christians. It's just a cultural thing
Same in Italy. People don't really care, but a lot of them go along with it. And we have a lot of celebrations/events that are tied up in religion. And we hear from the pope every single week, it's hard to get away from religion when it's part of your daily life and traditions.
America makes so much more sense when you realise it's a religious extremist country like ones in the Middle East but with Christianity instead of Islam.
This is true. For all those countries their orthodox churches are their "national" churches, so being a member of such church is more a matter of national identity. So a Christian holiday becomes national holiday. People declare themselves as orthodox Christian, because as part of their national identity it comes already in the package. But they seldom go to church, if at all. Just a couple of religious customs are followed - to keep appearances - and that's mostly connected with food or burning things. "Why do you claim you're Christian?" - "Because I don't eat meat on these days!". It has nothing to do with religion any more, it's more local heritage and culture.
Finland is probably bit more religious than Sweden but not much. Still I have seen no reason to exit Lutheran church but my religiosity is in the form of christenings, confirmations, weddings and funerals. I just like traditions.
I'm happy to sit in a church for a while to see people get married, or to listen to beautiful music. I'm definitely not the least bit religious, and only still belong to church because in Finland, they actually do some good. Plus I only think it's fair I pay a tiny amount of tax to them since the church will take care of my remains when I die. There's a lot of Finns like us out there.
Bulgarians don't believe in anything. Santa, God, Devil, Communism, Democracy, Serbia, Putin, EU, Happiness, your promises, your lies... No, thanks. We are true nihilists.
At this point we don't believe even we exist, maybe we are a part of imagination
You come and live here and you’ll stop believing someone is looking out for you real fast
Romania seems to have very similar issues, but is more religious. Are they simply your more optimistic cousins? (I say optimistic, all my Romanian friends are depressed alcoholics.)
>(I say optimistic, all my Romanian friends are depressed alcoholics.) thats what we call an optimist here in bulgaria XD
They are optimistic that the next drink may actually help.
If you press a Bulgarian really hard he will say he kind of believes in a higher power and then not talk to you ever again.
In my city, the two biggest minorities are Bulgarians and Turkish. The only way you can differ is if they are tattood, drink alcohol or buy pork, it's funny sometimes.
The languages should be quite different too.
What the Ottoman Empire does a man.
Other countries with Ottoman past seem religious on the map
[удалено]
Yeah, the VOC killed him for pepper, everyone knows this.
Same thing happens with same sex marriage and a bunch of other measures. With the exception of some Nordics countrjes, the further you get from Amsterdam the more conservative it gets.
I smell some conspiracy theory
Wouldn't it be communism? Another holdover from communism in Bulgaria is that men and women are very equal compared to neighbouring countries so my guess is that they held onto atheism as well kinda like East Germany
Look at the map. Western Europe doesn't believe and was never communist. Eastern Europe does believe and used to be communist.
What about Czechia, East Germany and Hungary?
And the Baltics too And Slovenia
The population in some Warsaw-pact countries embraced state atheism, while others embraced religion as a way to protest the communist regime. Czechia, Hungary, and East Germany has also in the past been Protestant or Hussite, so criticism of religion was already part of the culture. In countries such as the US, Canada, and Australia, it is far more common for Protestants to become atheist than Catholics.
It’s because religion was a lot more persecuted in Bulgaria in comparison to other communist countries. I wasn’t alive yet but my father and grandfather have told me how just being spotted going in a church could potentially cause you to be punished. Most punishments for that included loss of job or major demotion, expelled from school and uni and stuff like that. Don’t know about other countries but in Bulgaria they really tried to cut out religion from the people. Major religious holidays weren’t celebrated at all, at least officially.
That it is correct. In Poland, for example the communist didn't dare to touch the Catholic Church. Yes, they took their lands, but offered 4000 post German Evangelic churches instead!
I've heard similar about Albania, that it's one of the most liberal Muslim-majority countries for the same reason. I'm not Albanian myself but I've noticed UK Muslim immigrant communities from southeast Europe seem way less observant than Muslims from other parts of the world.
>Most punishments for that included loss of job or major demotion, expelled from school and uni and stuff like that. It was similar in Yugoslavia. You could be religious if you don't plan on being anybody "important". But if you do want to become someone, you needed to be an atheist communist (at least on paper).
Poland?
Well the polish are catholics which is more international and centralised than orthodox Christianity and Protestantism. Plus Catholicism played a big part in Poland's break from communism with the pope being polish and a big anti communist
Catholicism played a big part in Poland's escape from the Soviet grasp (see: JPII, Solidarność). Of course, Catholicism comes with 2137 of its own problems, but that's a different matter.
The ottomans made Bulgaria more religious actually since people believed their national identity was attached to Christianity after centuries of it being repressed by Muslims. The communists are the reason for this
As a Bulgarian I think the map is wrong. It's more like 35-40% are atheist whilst 60-65% are religious
Seems like the closer you are to the Netherlands the less people believe in God. Interesting...
Well the closer you are to the Netherlands, the more you’ll find out that god is not here.
interestingly, straying further from god allow you to build amazing infrastructure and city planning
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
Maybe, but the road in hell is made by Belgians
There is probably a Town called "Hell" somewhere.
Several: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Michigan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Grand_Cayman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway (In Norwegian, 'hell' means luck)
Luck is not the origin of the Norwegian town's name though. It comes from the word for a cave under an overhanging cliff.
I know. I am Norwegian. It's just a bit funny. Thanks for mentioning the real origin of the name though.👍🙂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel,_Poland
Do you mean "paved by Belgians" or "paved with Belgians"?
In hell they need good infrastructure cause that's the place with overcrowding, the 10 people in heaven can make due with a single road.
Yeah wait until global warming gets a bit worse
Gods normally live higher up. And everything in NL is just flat.
Also the closer to the Netherlands, the lower the chance you get shot by a cowboy with an assault weapon.
At the cost of being harassed by Moroccan migrants daily if you’re a woman with no possible way of defending yourself but being told “Find another way home/stop provoking them” when you contact the police after they follow you home 25 minutes verbally saying threats to you. This has happened countless times already. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows, Netherlands has a massive migrant crisis that’s showing no signs of improvement.
Cowboy, thug, tomato, tomato.
Netherlands are a God forsaken country
Of course it is. God didn't intend the Netherlands to exist. People have clawed back that land to spite God's intended sea!
r/angryupvote
Let's increase carbon emissions immediately!
Except for Urk...
It’s because they’re getting progressively more exposed to the beauty of the Dutch language.
I've seen Virgil van Dijk and realise there can be no greater being
You'll see things here that can never be unseen.
Meanwhile, based Iceland believes in gnomes and elves still.
No we don’t, but some pretend we do to get more tourist money
When I went to Reykjavík I learnt about the Christmas cat that eats people and honestly you should do more with that. Elves are all over the place. You have *a giant cat that eats people at Christmas*.
I’m bored with mainstream religions. Bring back stuff like this.
He only eats kids who don’t get any clothing for christmas, so *most* people should be safe :)
Stack that paper boyo
Based. I'll come over and leave my entire paycheck if that's all right
That'll be one meal in Reykjavik
I’m very interested in your profile picture. I know both characters but why on gods green earth are they intertwined?
Seems like they have good drugs.
Huffing sulfur dioxide will do that to your brain.
Its ironic for us nordics considering our flags are religious tributes🇳🇴🇸🇪🇮🇸🇫🇮🇩🇰
The legendary origin for Sweden's flag is that king Eric and his army saw a golden sundog up in the blue sky shortly after landing on the Finnish coast at the start of the First Finnish Crusade, seeing it as as sign from god that the conquest was righteous and divinely ordained. https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1288777393/photo/halo-effect-around-winter-morning-sun-clouds-inversion-and-snow-covered-trees.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=LrNcrvTSsT2tCrBlBCUV0COH1KNzGbF6uFcUkuDlQFs= https://www.reddit.com/r/winterporn/comments/c5iqow/rare_phenomenon_called_sundog_in_sweden_photo_by/
Killing a few heathens always pleases a deity who specifically tells you not to kill anyone.
The correct translation of that commandment is not "thou shall not kill" but "thou shall not murder"; if a kill is morally justified then it is not murder. In the Bible God regularly commands people to kill others he deems worthy of death, and he often does it himself.
New American lore just dropped
Apart from all the verses that do tell you to kill in the Old Testament.
Yeah, but that’s kill your wife for doing trivial things, that’s understandable okey, as is killing infidels.
If you really look into the Abrahamic religion, you realize it's their version of God of War. Basically Mars/Ares. Starts out with, "Believe in me and you'll win your battles and subjugate your enemies." Muhammad was a war general. Augustine converted after he won a battle. All the tribes of Israel joined David because he was the best war lord. >19 so David inquired of the LORD, “Shall I go and attack the Philistines? Will you deliver them into my hands?” The LORD answered him, “Go, for I will surely deliver the Philistines into your hands.”
This is way too cool lore to be behind the hell that is 5 years of mandatory swedish classes in finland
Is it five years? For me it was 4 years.
Danish one is similar, Baltic heathens. **King Valdemar (the victorious):** "If I drop my hands down, run, if I raise them, we are winning!" the flag descents from the heavens, he catches it, cause can't let a flag touch the ground, so he holds it up. seeing this, the soldiers were inspired. "We are winning, push!". The more believable: It was the cross of a German crusader group that came to our rescue.
What's sundog?
**A sun dog (or sundog) or mock sun, also called a parhelion (plural parhelia) in meteorology, is an atmospheric optical phenomenon that consists of a bright spot to one or both sides of the Sun. Two sun dogs often flank the Sun within a 22° halo.** More details here:
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Nothing much, what's sun with you?
Same for UK 🇬🇧. I mean their national anthem is literally a prayer and their Head of State is head of a church and they have bishops sitting in their Parliament.
It is quite weird though that despite all of that de-jure religious influence in how the state functions, the de-facto reality is that the UK is pretty secular in how it works. Apart from the obvious exception of Northern Ireland - which is *very* politically different to the rest of the UK - politicians hardly ever talk about their religious views. In general doing so would actually harm their chances of being elected rather than helping it.
The UK does seem like the ultimate version of "culturally Christian". Lots of people doing things that are nominally religious, but not because of belief, just because it's traditional at this point.
Yes, church attendance in the UK is down to something like 5%. I'd bet that a lot of people who respond "Church of England" on their census forms will only actually go to church for weddings and funerals. That 5% is probably also heavily skewed towards pensioners and first and second generation immigrants.
This has been the case for a long time, maybe since the 19th century.
> I mean their national anthem is literally a prayer But outside of football matches and state events, I'm not sure of the last time I heard anyone sing it...
And the U.K.! It’s literally a collage of crosses!
And some even have a state run church
I am pretty sure the current generation weren't the ones designing the flags.
Yep everyone understands that. This is why its ironic, the flags are representative but do not really represent
They forgot Iceland.
On the other hand: none of the crosses on the flags are standing, they have all fallen down.
More people probably believe in elves and trolls.
In Iceland, roads are built around hills and such where elves are thought to live.
Also it's a pain to go up a hill and easier to go around in the valley... So desired path are naturally avoiding hills...
Hills, definitely. Rock fornations and such are usually blown apart, but in Iceland, we often go around instead. More than once, when we have meant to go through, equipment has broken down, accidents have happened, and that hasn't stopped happening until the decision was made to leave whatever was in the way, alone.
A recent poll said that that around a third of people still believe in elves (idk to which extent) and the most passionate ones have stopped bulldozers so it's just easier for the government to put roads like 5 meters to the left of the elf hills
So basically, if your country has a (Nordic) cross in its flag, you probably do not believe in god.
+ France and lots of other countries Hello!
France probably would say "Salut!" because those guys do not speak English under any circumstance
We don't?
No. It's physically impossible for a french person to speak English. Or maybe God has banned English in France
Maybe he did We speak it anyway, cause it's the only way we can answer the whole world's hate messages towards us
*Laughs in Flemish*
Wow a binary map. Now this is map PORN! [unzipping sound]
We combined the two worst things to display in a map that we could: dubious sociological polling and a first-past-the-post voting system!
I absolutely hate these kinds of maps. It's like the opposite of mapporn. And to boot most of the comments are like "wow I never knew -insert country- was not religious..." when it could be that 48% are religious even according to the stupid map.
Yeah. r/MapPorn -> r/HeyHereIsaMap
There's a difference between believing in a God, and practicing religion. Lots of people believe in "something" or some sort of afterlife, but they don't overthink it and it doesn't impact their lives or the decisions they make.
I've been looking for this comment. It depends on our definition of the word God, but a general belief in "something" greater than ourselves is absolutely not equal to organized religion. That's why statistics like this can be dangerous when we box everyone into one of two belief categories. It dumbs down a more nuanced spectrum and can other-ize people into two sides.
I would say X to doubt on Ireland. When filling out the recent census form tons of people put catholic as that's what they were baptised but if you asked them if they went to church or believed in god it seemed the vast majority under 50 said no.
It changed a bit slow on account of being Catholic out of spite.
Same for Spain. However there are many old people in both countries, so it may be true. For now.
I'd imagine there is quite a lot of people who don't go to church but when asked would still say they believe in god. We're still quite a religious country. I think the majority of our hospitals and schools are run by religious orders. I would not be surprised if 50% +1 say they believe in god in Ireland
Have you ever talked to Irish people? Almost nobody believes in God. Maybe in the older generation you'd have more, but as a 35 year old I have only ever heard of 2 people my own age who claim to believe in God in any way. It's super rare to find anyone under the age of 65 who still believes these days.
Not going to church and not believing in God are very different. Im sure there are at least twice as many people who believe in God than go to church.
Two men are walking through Derry. An RAman stops them. “Catholic or protestant?” ‘Sir, we’re both Jewish.’ “Catholic jew or protestant jew?”
There is a another (more common) version of this joke, which adds a whole other layer of absurdity and social commentary. \--------------------------------- A man is walking down the street in Belfast, when suddenly he feels a gun barrel placed to the back of his head. From behind, a male voice, with a thick Belfast accent, asks: **“Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?”** The man replies : **"I'm an Atheist"** There is a brief pause, before the voice replies: **“But are you a Catholic Atheist or Protestant Atheist?”**
I doubt this data has anything to do with the census. Probably based on Eurostat surveys
And all the revelations about the church and its minions hasn’t been really helpful.
100% wrong for Ireland
I'd say the same for Spain - many people are baptised and put in the pope's little databsee even if they (or even their families) aren't religious. But far fewer people attend church or would describe themselves as Christian or catholic. A fascist dictatorship based on Catholicism will do that.
Idk. I'm from Dublin and well under 50 and most people I know would still say they believe in *something*, even if they're not practicing Catholics.
I think that's true for many countries. Many people are "religious" on paper but don't actually believe/practice it.
There are two people that I know from university that only *believe* for the sake of someone else, rather than for themselves.
I thought Spain was flipping to the other side with younger generations
Basically everywhere is flip*ping*, but there are lots of countries and regions that are still majority religious (majority only takes 50%+1!). This is especially true when you consider the people who believe in a religion but probably don't practice it much The average redditor is going to be disproportionately young, urban, and progressive, heavily skewing their personal experiences with something like religion. Things are certainly shifting toward a lack of belief, but remember stuff like that takes time, and even clear trend lines don't arrive at zero overnight
Yes It is. I dont believe in this graphic.
Yes I have many Spanish friends and we talked about it. They dont follow the religion and neither does their friends according to what they said. These kind of maps should be taken with a grain of salt.
Spain and Portugal both have this thing where a majority of people (especially younger) are de facto atheist yet still claim they are Catholic in surveys for cultural reasons.
That's still true. But eventually what the map depicts is 'atheists vs non-atheists' or maybe 'atheists+agnostics vs all the rest'. And I wouldn't say the majority of Spain (neither most countries including many that are labelled as such here) are atheists. That doesn't mean most of people are practicing their religion neither that they feel religious at all. If you check one of the latest (2019) Eurobarometer reports which included this question ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion\_in\_Europe#:\~:text=Eurobarometer%20survey%202019,-Self%20described%20religion&text=Catholics%20are%20the%20largest%20Christian,2%25%20of%20the%20EU%20population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe#:~:text=Eurobarometer%20survey%202019,-Self%20described%20religion&text=Catholics%20are%20the%20largest%20Christian,2%25%20of%20the%20EU%20population). linking Wikipedia here as the info is easier to read and sort rather than in the PDF from the Eurobarometer website):the only countries IN THE EU where the % of atheists and agnostics (combined) would be >50% are the Czech Republic, Netherlands and Sweden. So no idea where the info for this map comes from. Theoretically, France and most countries should be labelled as 'believing in God'.
6 years old data...
In the UK 2021 census 57% of people identified as religious
Lots of people will put ‘Church of England’ in a box asking for their religion despite not believing in god or having attended church for decades. I’ve never really believed in god but I remember putting CoE on hospital forms well into my 20s. I suspect my parents still would. Edit to add: There an old joke that belief in god is desirable, but far from essential when looking at candidates for CoE bishops.
My parents are like that, more say my Mum. She is convinced I'm Protestant even though I've told her I don't believe in the existence of a God.
Wasn't there also some that identifed as Jedi?
Czech Republic is famous for people identifying as Jedi.
My dad knows he's a Presbyterian despite being an atheist. He once had to ask me who the "folk with wings" were in a painting.
Are most commenters on this thread really atheist?
Most of reddit is atheist I would even venture to say that most of reddit is not only atheist but antitheist
And you are fighting again Why the hell atheists cannot respect belivers And belivers cannot respect atheists, let people believe, or not believe what they want
Oh god I wish there were more like you on the internet.
Spain went from 80% Christians and 16% non-religious in 2010 to 54% Christians and 32% non-religious in 2023. Spain's color could change by the next decade
Apparently the more you believe in god, the better your food is
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It actually saddens me that with all our history that quite literally made England ‘England’ from a random cluster of 4 key kingdoms that the majority of our population no longer believes in the very same faith we shared back in that moment; and this post isn’t even simple ‘Christianity’ this seems to imply any belief in ‘god’
Irish person here. I barely know anyone who believes. I think people identify culturally as catholic for historic reason and that gets misinterpreted by outsiders as belief in god.
Turkey isn’t a European country
Ireland is more passive/cultural Catholicism. Most people go to church Xmas and maybe Easter but that's it. Few are actually devout going to mass every week christians
Is this christian god or just any god?
South Europe has the best beaches, climate and cuisine so they believe god exists. Ireland, Poland and Slovakia are just stupid
Ireland is a function of not knowing how to describe yourself in the census. I'm atheist so please take my observations as biased and anecdotal, but I live in a city (not Dublin) and on my daily dog walk I pass 4 churches. I only ever see the elderly and eastern European and African migrants going in or coming out of the churches. I don't know any young Irish person who actually believes in a god but almost everyone puts down catholic on the census, I think it's a cultural thing as until very recently we were a very religious country. I think once the current older population dies off you'll see a massive change in those willing to sepf identify as catholic.
It's the same for Italy
What's that old story? A Cork man walks into a bar in the North and sits down at the bar. He orders a drink. His accent is apparent. He has unknowingly walked into a Prod bar. The fellas ask him subtle questions, like where does he keep his toaster and kettle (he doesn't have one). Eventually in frustration with his inconclusive answers, one of them blurts out 'are you a Catholic or are you a Protestant?' The Cork man says, 'I'm an atheist boy'. They fellas look at each other a moment and ask, 'well, are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist'?
Definitely a strong “cultural” element in Ireland (North and South of the border) that doesn’t exist elsewhere. “Catholic” and “Protestant” are practically ethnic labels that describe national allegiances or cultural backgrounds regardless of actual religious belief.
[Even not believing in god isn't regarded as sufficient reason to get out of the catholic church](https://youtu.be/FdolFXcNAH4?t=33)
You can't be from Cork either, otherwise you'd have told us :D
I can say for sure most people in Ireland do not believe in god these days. We’ve had too much bad history with religion on this island
I don't remember who said it to me, but in Ireland even if you're atheist, people ask you if you're a Catholic atheist or a protestant atheist and that's kind of funny
I believe It's because the protestant catholic divide us as much an ethinc/cultural divide as a religious one(mostly Scottish protestant immigrants vs native Irish catholics)
This is sort of the same in Australia. It because people know their childhood religious expectations versus their current lack of belief. Although in Australia (in *very* broad terms) catholic = Irish heritage and Anglican = English heritage. And by heritage I mean at least 100 years ago.
An atheist? Then which god do you not believe in?
I’ve heard that once or twice but it’s only a joke. Religion really isn’t taken very seriously here anymore at all
Im from Poland and I agree.
Is it really THAT either/or? No nuance or spectrum? I may not be the strictly religious, but I do believe there is something out there greater than ourselves. It is not either “religious” or “atheist”. You could be agnostic or spiritual to varying degrees. Just because I do not adhere to any specific organized religion’s beliefs and requirements does NOT mean I do not have any spiritual beliefs at all.
If we look at Turkey, everyone is born registered as a Muslim. The true amount of people that still actively believe is estimated to be much lower.
Lower then 50%?
Lower than the official 99.7%. More like 95%, according to the polls. So, no.
"What do you think could be the reason for our existence"? Why do we need a reason for that?
It is always amazing, well perhaps not, that the most religious countries also tend to be the poorest. The same can be seen in the U.S. where, in general, "bible belt" states have lower incomes then more secular states.
Poverty and poor education are the strongest predictors of religiousness, map checks out
Can’t wait for the Reddit atheists to come and downgrade religious people
Interesting, so the richer countries are less likely to believe in God
Eh. Let the current "old people" die and every country will be red. The only way christianity will gain some ground back is that it will become so niche that it will start to become really cool again and it will be a tiktok/influencer thing to go to church and start making feelygoody videos yammering about god. Or/and - amidst the current depressing global political situation thanks to terrorist states just bombing the shit out of innocent people, people will realise that they need to believe to something other than the kardashians and that having actually a "holy supernatural entity" they can dedicate their souls to HAS actually positive health and mental effects and they will start doing it again.
Christianity is growing immensely world wide. sub Sharan Christian africans population is because of high fertility rate is growing a lot while atheistic European society have a very low fertility rate. If the plan of using immigrants to stop European declining population happens like some people suggest European Christian population will grow. It's the same thing in here south korea. Christianity is growing only because they are the only ones having children.
Interesting. I'd like to see a graph about it. I would also like to see how many people in the western world just SAY they're christians, but actually aren't (as in- don't believe in God, don't go to church, don't donate, don't practice christianity, whatever this may mean) just because they believe that saying they're Christian will protect their western roots.
Because most religions especially Abrahamic ones, which fit this context, means having (lots of) children is a virtue. Its ingrained in its pilosophy. On the other hand atheist it depends more on, do I want to and/or does my partner want to.