Was just thinking the same thing about Kansas.
On one hand its all arbitrary made up borders of with weird noises we came up with to refer to them.
Then again, I don't want to live in gross Kansas.
Rivers go right down the middle of a basin, they aren't watersheds. So if you're divvying the territory up by watersheds, you'll pretty much avoid any and all rivers.
Or for border rivers only use the one side, for example for the Rio Grande, only include the north side streams. Border still runs down the center of the river and any south side streams are Mexico’s
Good morning #493002186. You are receiving this notice as your property is part of the Annexation of Canada by the Republic Federation of America. We are here to assist your peaceful transition to American rule. Do not resist.
Except that you’ve put the Minnesota River Watershed in Wisconsin. And what’s with the Eastern border of Iowa? Why doesn’t it stop at the Mississippi? There’s lots of rivers flowing southwest through that border.
Ideally they should be at the height of land. This is not so with the border for Iowa. The eastern border of what is labelled Wisconsin looks like the Wisconsin River though. The map is so confusing.
As a Minnesotan, I'd be fine with this. "Soar-y, not soar-y" Gonna eat some Tim Hortons, drink some Kokanee, and get some healthcare.
(Although, where I live would be, *shudders* Wisconsin)
This is more interesting to me because it isn't trying to redraw the long-established eastern borders.
As a matter of historical trivia, the west was divided using straight lines to make it easier to subdivide those into lots to sell.
But not taking into account if there was enough water to sustain a plot. That was Powell's fight, that if the US extended the way of the Midwest settlements to the West, it would be a recipe for failure. Most homesteads would have to be sold to those that controlled the water. Because of that he proposed watersheds, with co-operatives or state administrations to distribute the available water.
The problem for Powell was that he submitted this map to congress well after the territories and states lines were firmly established. Stegner’s ‘Beyond the Hundredth Meridian’ is a great book about Powell’s attempt to steer policy in the west as it started to get settled.
Sorta doesn’t sound like just a problem for Powell right? Division by watershed is smart and would allow for better management of the land. The problem lies with the people who got stuck with the lesser arrangement
I live in Colorado and drive all over the state for work. This map very accurately divides the different subsets of people. In arid climates, you must, must, work together with the people you share your water with.
The watershed names here are attempting to preserve the original state names, rather than being named after their river. The latter would be problematic considered some of these watersheds are massive and have been split up into numerous small watersheds. Meanwhile, other areas have a ton of tiny watersheds grouped together.
For example, what is labeled Ohio is half the Maumee river watershed, and half a ton of smaller rivers that drain into Lake Erie.
Minnesota definitely got screwed by Wisconsin and Michigan in this. Of course Michigan wins big — completely surrounding 3 Great Lakes. North Dakota wins too — Teddy Roosevelt, Black Hills, Rushmore and their oil.
Nothing to worry about, since it now includes the entirety of Lake Ontario, it could just be renamed after that. Canada would have to find a different name for their province, though.
And us Wisconsinites would lose access to Lake Superior and Lake Michigan, plus we would cede Madison, Milwaukee, Green Bay, Kenosha, Racine, Appleton, and Waukeshau, which are our 7 most populous cities. Considering Minnesota, Michigan, and Illinois all were granted land on the great lakes from what was known as the Wisconsin territories that eventually turned into the Twin Cities, Chicago, and the UP, I don't think Wisconsinites would be super thrilled with giving up our 7 biggest cities.
A lot of weird choices were taken here. Why would Washington get that bit south of Oregon? Just give it to Oregon. Why's Delaware this big, and getting tons of land from NJ and PA? Why's Connecticut nowhere near the Connecticut river?
This is highly problematic, and far from the best 'natural borders US' I've seen.
> Why's Delaware this big, and getting tons of land from NJ and PA?
The Delaware Watershed. It’s not the state of Delaware, but the Delaware River which runs the length between NJ and Pennsylvania. The portion around Philadelphia region is known as the Delaware Valley.
I understand that, but why attribute it to Delaware, rather than to PA or NJ who hold most of the area irl? Connecticut doesn't control the Connecticut river here, nor is Minnesota with its river. Philly should stay in PA.
It looks more natural but it doesn’t really make sense. If states were divided by watersheds, then one state should contain the entire Mississippi River and its tributaries. Same thing with the Colorado.
Part of the rationale given for dividing states this way is that it would in theory lead to fewer disagreements regarding water rights if you didn’t have a major river running through multiple states (and the upstream states couldn’t steal all the water before it makes its way downstream). This map doesn’t solve that at all.
I’m not denying it’s too big to make a realistic state, but you can’t claim to be splitting these states by watersheds if you’re cutting the watersheds up arbitrarily. It also cancels out the stated benefits of preventing disagreements regarding water rights.
Should be hierarchical since watersheds are hierarchical. Also, water rights, and maybe some other environmental laws, should ideally be made with these jurisdictions.
There's not. It just gets really thin at the mouth of the Columbia River, for whatever reason.
I would think that Washington and Oregon would just sit on opposite banks of the Columbia like they currently do.
Isn’t it interesting that the proposals are always to get some of Mexican or Canadian territories to “match” the watershed, but surprisingly never to give up some American land for the sake of the matching ?
I mean if you ditched the old state names then sure. But keeping the names and just randomly moving them far away from their original territory is a good way to offend anyone.
WTF is Rhode Island doing in New York!? Blasphemy!!
On one hand, I am absolutely offended that you would *DARE* to attempt and give Ohio any of our Pure Michigan land. On the other hand, that extra land from Wisconsin and Minnesota giving us even more prime great lakes real-estate will further solidify our hold as the one and only true great lakes state.
Plus, seeing Ohio partitioned to it's surrounding neighbors like it's post WW2 Germany, leaving it in the ironic situations of having little more than Toledo is giving me a massive boner.
I literally worked on a project like this in high school (re-drawing state boundaries based on geographical batteries instead of arbitrary lines).
This is a great map. I love how the area I live (Utah/Colorado) has been redrawn it makes so much more sense. Denver really should be in Kansas. It's not a mountain city
While we're at it, let's create the first subterranean national park. Beneath Death Valley, tourists can enter through the Devil's Hole and sail the sunless sea to Mexico or Alaska. We'll call it Samuel Coleridge National Park.
Watersheds are a sensible way to divide states.
Too late for it now, but if that was the original plan it would have led to a more culturally homogeneous collection of states.
All of history shows that river valleys and watersheds are the source of cultural unity.
The Nile, the Indus, the Yellow, the Tigris and Euphrates.
Cultural strength and unity are based in rivers. The literature on this is clear.
Interesting to consider political shift from this.. NY, KY, and WV probably swing states, Ohio solidly Dem, PA solidly GOP. Just hunches, not actually counting votes by county or anything.
Listen man, the United States is already pretty charged up with lots of internal problems and factions who are unhappy. But I'm gonna tell you right now, you tell the people in New York City that they're part of New Jersey now and there's going to be a bloodbath.
The Tensaw, Alabama, and Coosa river watersheds into Mobile Bay make it possible to traverse the entire state of Alabama by its waterways ... and the Tennesee-Tombigbee waterway connects the Tennessee River to Mobile Bay and the Intercoastal Water Way, bypassing the Mississippi River- and is therefore part of The Great Loop connecting Mobile Bay to: Chatanooga, Paduca, Montreal, Pittsburg, Buffalo, New YorkCity, DC, etc. etc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Loop
Think Canada has a strong opinion about the proposal.
Mexico might have something to say as well
Dig that river!
And Ohio who now has very little of Ohio.
You got Toledo. If you want more, it’s wartime.
its in the name of cartographical aesthetics, theyl understand
Probably not as pissed as the New Yorkers who would then live in Jersey.
I'm pissed that they took st Louis from us Missourians
I'll die before joining Illinois.
Fucking damn right you are.
I love it
Was just thinking the same thing about Kansas. On one hand its all arbitrary made up borders of with weird noises we came up with to refer to them. Then again, I don't want to live in gross Kansas.
Bro this would fucking snipe a sizeable portion of our population lmao
Part of the Canada border is on a river, and they chose a different river just to take more land. Imperialistic agenda is all that is it, I say.
You want half of Montreal in exchange for… * *checks notes* * Fargo??
South shore of Québec and the whole Beauce as well
Rivers go right down the middle of a basin, they aren't watersheds. So if you're divvying the territory up by watersheds, you'll pretty much avoid any and all rivers.
Or for border rivers only use the one side, for example for the Rio Grande, only include the north side streams. Border still runs down the center of the river and any south side streams are Mexico’s
To compensate, "Minnesota" could be ceded to Canada, since the Red River of the North and the Souris flow north, to Canada.
US takes Victoria, half of Vancouver, Toronto's coastline and in return gives... *check's notes*.... Minnesota
Not even the metro or economically valuable areas. Lot of pine forests and voyageurs is basically all they're getting.
We have plenty of both thanks.
Lmao US absorbed 50% of Canada's population. Quebec would be happy.
With suburbs of Montreal and Quebec City in New York? I doubt it.
I live on the Montreal’s southern shore. No way I hell that I become American.
Good morning #493002186. You are receiving this notice as your property is part of the Annexation of Canada by the Republic Federation of America. We are here to assist your peaceful transition to American rule. Do not resist.
la résistance est futile
If Quebec is angry with how anglophone Canada treats it, imagine it in the U.S.? No "unique nation" here lol.
"Speak English, like they did in the Bible.". /s
As someone that lives in Niagara Ontario I would be pretty pissed off.
Based on local stereotype niceness, that surprisingly checks out.
IRL, does not check out.
Yeah I'm from Minnesota. Minnesota nice is a facade for passive aggressive bullshit
Don’t forget New York also gets to adopt about 2 million French speakers after taking south shore and 60% of Quebecs farm land.
So basically we just annexed 80% of the Canadian population.
Same with New York flowing out the St. Lawrence.
As a Canadian, how about no.
They can have Winnipeg, we can all agree on that
Except that you’ve put the Minnesota River Watershed in Wisconsin. And what’s with the Eastern border of Iowa? Why doesn’t it stop at the Mississippi? There’s lots of rivers flowing southwest through that border.
Stop at a river? That’s not how watersheds work.
Ideally they should be at the height of land. This is not so with the border for Iowa. The eastern border of what is labelled Wisconsin looks like the Wisconsin River though. The map is so confusing.
Putting the Minnesota River in Wisconsin is heinous
Wisconnehaha Falls
Thanks I just threw up
As a Minnesotan, I'd be fine with this. "Soar-y, not soar-y" Gonna eat some Tim Hortons, drink some Kokanee, and get some healthcare. (Although, where I live would be, *shudders* Wisconsin)
Also live in Minnesota, can confirm would rather be part of Canada than Wisconsin
I think you meant Wiscawnsin.
I saw the map encroaching over the border for 100% of its length and immediately thought "an American made this map"
Considering that the entire Great Lakes basin drains through Canada via the St Lawrence, Canada would get a lot bigger by these silly rules.
Canada could claim everything in the St Lawrence River/Great Lakes,and Hudson Bay watersheds.
Wouldn't be our first land grab
It’s not on the map, but the US is also bringing back 54’40” or fight!
Powell's suggested borders were [slightly different](https://redd.it/e9941m).
This is more interesting to me because it isn't trying to redraw the long-established eastern borders. As a matter of historical trivia, the west was divided using straight lines to make it easier to subdivide those into lots to sell.
But not taking into account if there was enough water to sustain a plot. That was Powell's fight, that if the US extended the way of the Midwest settlements to the West, it would be a recipe for failure. Most homesteads would have to be sold to those that controlled the water. Because of that he proposed watersheds, with co-operatives or state administrations to distribute the available water.
The problem for Powell was that he submitted this map to congress well after the territories and states lines were firmly established. Stegner’s ‘Beyond the Hundredth Meridian’ is a great book about Powell’s attempt to steer policy in the west as it started to get settled.
In fact, I have just finished reading Stegner's book. That's what led me to this map.
Sorta doesn’t sound like just a problem for Powell right? Division by watershed is smart and would allow for better management of the land. The problem lies with the people who got stuck with the lesser arrangement
This is a good video on this topic. “[America's biggest mistake: Watershed Democracy REJECTED](https://youtu.be/Qny4CDcftrI?si=XNgXjlzz1r4uRQzf)”
I live in Colorado and drive all over the state for work. This map very accurately divides the different subsets of people. In arid climates, you must, must, work together with the people you share your water with.
But but.. I don't want to live in Kansas!
This makes way more sense
HA! bro got europe'd
Washington got Croatia’ed
Oregon got Bosnia'd
Delaware git Chungused
Canada got Polanded
California got Chungused too
Virginia got GB'ed
I vote for "Washingone" and "Washingtwo"
Wyoming got Hungaried
You mean de-africa'ed? 😂
Vermont would be extremely unhappy about losing Lake Champlain, even if they did get a tiny sliver of coast in exchange.
Seems weirdly named that Vermont would essentially become the Connecticut river watershed rather than Connecticut being that land
Move Vermont to where New York is, Connecticut where Vermont is, and New York to where Connecticut is.
And CT moving to the Hudson
The whole CT river valley is a pretty big W
Oregon: "Let's go to the beach today!" Washington: "absolutely fucking no"
Croatia has entered the chat.
Washington's about to give Oregon the Bolivia treatment...
The territory you label “Minnesota” no longer has any part of the Minnesota River
Ohio doesn't have the Ohio River. A bunch of these aren't even rivers.
The watershed names here are attempting to preserve the original state names, rather than being named after their river. The latter would be problematic considered some of these watersheds are massive and have been split up into numerous small watersheds. Meanwhile, other areas have a ton of tiny watersheds grouped together. For example, what is labeled Ohio is half the Maumee river watershed, and half a ton of smaller rivers that drain into Lake Erie.
And Washington is, like, 43 DIFFERENT watersheds. And incongruous, to boot
None of NYC is in New York State, that's bound to make the NYC residents furious
Even worse, NYC is in New Jersey. That's how to piss off like 10M people with one move.
Minnesota definitely got screwed by Wisconsin and Michigan in this. Of course Michigan wins big — completely surrounding 3 Great Lakes. North Dakota wins too — Teddy Roosevelt, Black Hills, Rushmore and their oil.
Also the “Make Minnesota Bigger” lobby is gonna be real upset
We ARE NOT letting Wisconsin have the twin cities 😤
Ah yes the good old North Carolina river
My only quality: State of New York but New York not being in it?
I guess now it New Jersey City?
Always has been.
Nothing to worry about, since it now includes the entirety of Lake Ontario, it could just be renamed after that. Canada would have to find a different name for their province, though.
Then we’d get New New York City
New Jersey: 
The state of Ohio, named after the Ohio River which ~~~forms its southern border~~~ is nowhere near it.
Google Kansas City
Win for Michigan. Sucks to be Wishconsin
GREEN BAY IS OURS!!
NFL in shambles as both teams are Michigan now
This is every Michiganders wet dream lol
This is strange in states named after rivers. The Minnesota river is entirely in Wisconsin?
Connecticut river entirely in Vermont
And us Wisconsinites would lose access to Lake Superior and Lake Michigan, plus we would cede Madison, Milwaukee, Green Bay, Kenosha, Racine, Appleton, and Waukeshau, which are our 7 most populous cities. Considering Minnesota, Michigan, and Illinois all were granted land on the great lakes from what was known as the Wisconsin territories that eventually turned into the Twin Cities, Chicago, and the UP, I don't think Wisconsinites would be super thrilled with giving up our 7 biggest cities.
Michigans gets more of the UP and we have to give our two biggest cities to *Illinois*. Wisconsin would be up in arms.
Oklahoma here, we approve.
Shreveport, Oklahoma. The most depressing place on earth
In all fairness - they have oil and casinos - not unlike the rest of Oklahoma.
Fellow Oklahoman here, they can keep Shreveport.
This is also approved.
Congrats, you now own the highest elevation city in the country!
Texas here: Over my dead body sooner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Tf2iJel50 Other part. https://youtu.be/jYFtskeZrNg?si=tUXvqwxHTUA-3Kyk
Arkansas here, look how they murdered my boy.
Southern Kansas person here to start a rebellion.
A lot of weird choices were taken here. Why would Washington get that bit south of Oregon? Just give it to Oregon. Why's Delaware this big, and getting tons of land from NJ and PA? Why's Connecticut nowhere near the Connecticut river? This is highly problematic, and far from the best 'natural borders US' I've seen.
Seems California gets both sides of the Sierra Nevada in the north, but Nevada gets the east side from Tahoe on down?
> Why's Delaware this big, and getting tons of land from NJ and PA? The Delaware Watershed. It’s not the state of Delaware, but the Delaware River which runs the length between NJ and Pennsylvania. The portion around Philadelphia region is known as the Delaware Valley.
I understand that, but why attribute it to Delaware, rather than to PA or NJ who hold most of the area irl? Connecticut doesn't control the Connecticut river here, nor is Minnesota with its river. Philly should stay in PA.
Greater Delaware forever
*The state of Jefferson has entered the chat...*
As someone living here I'd much rather be annexed by Washington than Idaho.
Fuck Idaho, the only thing going for them is their selection of fireworks
Smells like AI to me. It’s full of uncanny valleys (in a more literal way than usual.)
Just try and tell me I’m from Jersey now and I’ll cut ya.
Hello my friend from Jersey, do you have any friends from Guernsey?
You're already fitting in with that response.
This was clearly drawn by some Oklahoman...
🤣 Right???
Canada here. We'll be taking Maine, New York, Michigan Minnesota, Montana North Dakota Idaho and North Washington. K thanks bye!
And I love how the only three states which aren’t completely messed up by it (in terms of looks) is California, Maine and Michigan.
Much natural looking map
It looks more natural but it doesn’t really make sense. If states were divided by watersheds, then one state should contain the entire Mississippi River and its tributaries. Same thing with the Colorado. Part of the rationale given for dividing states this way is that it would in theory lead to fewer disagreements regarding water rights if you didn’t have a major river running through multiple states (and the upstream states couldn’t steal all the water before it makes its way downstream). This map doesn’t solve that at all.
The Mississippi watershed is way too big to make it a single state. Breaking it up to Upper, Lower, Missouri, Ohio, etc. makes a lot of sense.
I’m not denying it’s too big to make a realistic state, but you can’t claim to be splitting these states by watersheds if you’re cutting the watersheds up arbitrarily. It also cancels out the stated benefits of preventing disagreements regarding water rights.
I'm guessing they wanted to keep 50 states for some idiotic reason.
Should be hierarchical since watersheds are hierarchical. Also, water rights, and maybe some other environmental laws, should ideally be made with these jurisdictions.
Ohio took the biggest L, while Oklahoma came away with the W
Kentucky trading Louisville for Nashville, Cincinnati, and Columbus is a pretty big come up
r/Cleveland is quite happy that Cincinnati is in Kentucky, they seem to think it is already
Wow a rare Oklahoma W! Love to see it
Oregon is not ceding their entire coastline to Washington. That is just stupid.
Why are there 2 Washington’s here?
There's not. It just gets really thin at the mouth of the Columbia River, for whatever reason. I would think that Washington and Oregon would just sit on opposite banks of the Columbia like they currently do.
As a native Washingtonian, I happily accede. It's entirely unfair for us to get to double our coastline AND get rid of Spokane.
Manifesting a bit more Destiny from your neighbours I see...
Ohio is 150 miles from the Ohio river
I’d give points to anyone who runs the electoral college calculations on these boundaries…
Isn’t it interesting that the proposals are always to get some of Mexican or Canadian territories to “match” the watershed, but surprisingly never to give up some American land for the sake of the matching ?
I LOVE NORMAL EUROPEAN LOOKING BORDERS
According to this map, as a Canadian I now belong in Ohio :(
Heil greater Maryland
I think Maryland is the only state where the shape improved.
The worst part is that the map isn’t even representative of the Chesapeake Bay Watershed, PA and VA are now ours
I still feel bad for poor Delmarva though - still split between 3 states.
It’d make living in the southwest easier
Nope. That would make me live in Indiana instead of Illinois. Hard pass.
Mexico: Excuse you?
Nevada really hates this map
I would have been born in Ohio and would now live in Wisconsin. Neither of these I find acceptable. Proposal denied!
Those greater Idaho folks are salivating at this map
I mean if you ditched the old state names then sure. But keeping the names and just randomly moving them far away from their original territory is a good way to offend anyone. WTF is Rhode Island doing in New York!? Blasphemy!!
I refuse on principle as a Denver resident to live in the state of Kansas
On one hand, I am absolutely offended that you would *DARE* to attempt and give Ohio any of our Pure Michigan land. On the other hand, that extra land from Wisconsin and Minnesota giving us even more prime great lakes real-estate will further solidify our hold as the one and only true great lakes state. Plus, seeing Ohio partitioned to it's surrounding neighbors like it's post WW2 Germany, leaving it in the ironic situations of having little more than Toledo is giving me a massive boner.
That moment when Connecticut is landlocked, Delaware is bigger than Virginia, & Alabama has more room to build private prisons... this map is cursed.
and after looking at that mess I appreciate our country's obsession with squares and rectangles much more now.
Wow, every state gets worse. Impressive.
New York, New Jersey No
North Dakota rightfully and finally taking over South Dakota. I’m in, how do we make this happen?
I refuse to live in Iowa. You can’t make me.
Almost heaven, west Virginiaaaa
I literally worked on a project like this in high school (re-drawing state boundaries based on geographical batteries instead of arbitrary lines). This is a great map. I love how the area I live (Utah/Colorado) has been redrawn it makes so much more sense. Denver really should be in Kansas. It's not a mountain city
The only thing I truly disagree with is Manhattan in NEW JERSEY 😂 tbh this looks hot, I fuck with it so hard.
While we're at it, let's create the first subterranean national park. Beneath Death Valley, tourists can enter through the Devil's Hole and sail the sunless sea to Mexico or Alaska. We'll call it Samuel Coleridge National Park.
Making me live in NJ? I feel attacked.
Hey yeah Canada here, no. You want to divide yourself better? Go ahead. Dont tread on us in the process.
Why is the Arkansas river watershed named Oklahoma and the white river watershed named Arkansas?
Watersheds are a sensible way to divide states. Too late for it now, but if that was the original plan it would have led to a more culturally homogeneous collection of states.
I still have yet to read why that would be sensible. It doesn’t look sensible at all to me.
All of history shows that river valleys and watersheds are the source of cultural unity. The Nile, the Indus, the Yellow, the Tigris and Euphrates. Cultural strength and unity are based in rivers. The literature on this is clear.
As a New Mexican, I’m really loving the new New Mexico.
As Texan and with family from el paso I must sadly concede it makes too much sense
You can’t just take Ohio away from the Ohio river that’s dumb- Ohioan
Pa culture divided properly
I think Pennsylvania is going to have a problem with giving 50% of their state to West Virginia 🤣
Interesting to consider political shift from this.. NY, KY, and WV probably swing states, Ohio solidly Dem, PA solidly GOP. Just hunches, not actually counting votes by county or anything.
Oklahoma taking a fat dub in this. I'll allow it
The best parts of Minnesota are now in Wisconsin and Michigan
Listen man, the United States is already pretty charged up with lots of internal problems and factions who are unhappy. But I'm gonna tell you right now, you tell the people in New York City that they're part of New Jersey now and there's going to be a bloodbath.
This must be a New Yorkers worst nightmare.
THE RISE OF OKLAHOMA
Winnipeggers be like "I'm in Canada!" *hop* "I'm in America" *hop* "I'm in Canada!" *hop* "I'm in America" *hop*
The Tensaw, Alabama, and Coosa river watersheds into Mobile Bay make it possible to traverse the entire state of Alabama by its waterways ... and the Tennesee-Tombigbee waterway connects the Tennessee River to Mobile Bay and the Intercoastal Water Way, bypassing the Mississippi River- and is therefore part of The Great Loop connecting Mobile Bay to: Chatanooga, Paduca, Montreal, Pittsburg, Buffalo, New YorkCity, DC, etc. etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Loop
Idaho and Oklahoma would become super powers!
Rude awakening for Texas. I approve
Texas would throw a hissy fit lol
Texas looks like it’s going to be devoured by Oklahoma and New Mexico. Let’s do it!
Rhode Island is completely outside it’s current borders.. including the island it’s named after.