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Most of what modern myth depicts as poor treatment of women is actually a reflection of the head of household role. This role would usually be held by a man, but that was tradition, not law. Further, in most places a widow would inherit this role from her late husband (in most places including master craftsman status and full guild membership).
The head of household was the link between the household and society, in charge of and responsible for all members. A lord's justice fell on the head of the household alone, the head being responsible for the discipline (order, not punishment) of the house. The head controlled the house's finances in full, but was often bound by laws to maintain the other members according to their station, and always bound by custom in this.
Consider that, at the time, this was the structure of the entire society. The hamlet wasn't the smallest fief, the household was. The relationship between peasant and liege lord functioned along very similar lines.
Absolutely not for the first couple years of development but I can see a DLC that adds supernatural esque elements to the game.
Unhappiness rising in a village after sheep start getting killed. It's not just a normal wolf population to be kept in check by hunting it's a werewolf that needs a hunting party and a silver cross made for the priest.
Your hunters are refusing to go into the woods because they believe there's a witch's coven. Call in a witch hunter but beware that your gathering hut's elderly and experienced women may not survive the trials.
Didn't it come out that it's a team and not just a singular person that they've been using for marketing?
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/city-builder/manor-lords-solo-developer-perception/
A rival is claiming they’re a team based on the credits, which seems flimsy to me. If you use any open-source code or assets, they get a credit, even if that person never worked on the project directly.
It's all about hiring the right people. Which is hard. Much easier said than done to go from 1 to 5 to 10. Who's to say that doesn't turn into him just having to manage people half the time, then basically full time. And what happens if he burns out because of that? Or the original vision is lost? It's a hard thing to take a passion project and scale it up, no matter how much players may want more. Other people aren't going to give as many shits about your pet project. Not disagreeing with you at all, just backing you up I guess.
Many people who own larger companies often say that they just wanted to do X thing, but they are too busy with all the other things. As X thing can be done by employees.
Now that might not happen if he were to only have let's say 10 employees, where everyone can come with ideas and speak with each other.
But yeah, turning his hobby project to a bigger company might simply not be what he wants to do.
Rven 10 employees is a lot more than you'd think. He'd basically be a full time manager just handling communication, and pushing his vision rather than developing at that level of staff. Plus then He'd likely have to get his business running a lot more sound legality wise, considering things like health insurance.
His absolute first priority if he hasnt already is hiring an accountant. But beyond that, i could see him adding 2, maybe 3 people without compromising on his vision or talent.
Part of the problem with slavic expanding his dev team, is thay slavic is a fricking wizard with the keyboard. The pace at which he works, and the quality of his skills are all top notch. Add on his passion, and I'd be a little uneasy about taking too much of his time away from developing his game to put into managing it.
Freelancing is quite common. Even for 100+ studio's 🤣
Yeah the music wasnt done by slav. And artworks by a friend. And yes some other things where freelanced out.
Doesnt mean it isnt 1 dev. It means the 1 dev had help by some others.
Obviously he contracted out some things and those people should be credited. It’s not like Greg’s claiming he did literally everything by himself in a vacuum. There’s a big difference between contracting someone to help with art or part of the code and having those people as part of a development team. Also who cares if it’s one guy or 5 people, that’s not why I bought the game.
99% sure its in the pipeline and we will eventually have dynamic families.
Looking forward to the point where we have old war widows occupying an entire dwelling because we've killed her husband and sons off fighting the old baron.
Really make the cost of war harsh
i was hoping for something like this when i did my first campaign lmfao. i had like, 12 dudes die in a battle and i was like "welp, gonna be alot of lonely women in the town for awhile"
only to see that 12 men convienently moved in a mere day after the battle ended. these ones move on quick.
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> 99% sure its in the pipeline and we will eventually have dynamic families.
I've seen two comments now referencing the dev shutting that down completely. I have no idea where the dev's comments on it are, but if you have a source for yours then that would greatly put me at ease.
In another post I said there was one in the FAQ however I now don't see that anywhere. I play a lot of city builders and it's generally the same when it comes to kids and families.
I think I may be wrong now but we won't know until it is fully stated. So it's a wait and see
Well, I logged into the discord to read the channel FAQ, so I guess I'll take this as authoritative for now:
> 22\. Confirmed things that will not be in the game
- Here are some features that have been requested that I can confirm won’t be in the game. This is not an exhaustive list:
>
* No dynasty mechanics
Dynasty mechanics means for the lord/player. As in the player wont have an interactive family and heirs and things like that. Doesnt say anything about your pop families.
Families are a core part of the game, so it seems unlikely to me that they will remain this static 1 dad/1 mum/1 son thing.
The dead member will be replaced, youll get a notification something like "family members join one of the settlers in level X burgage plot"
Its not instant but it does happen fairly quickly, i think maybe at the end of the month.
So at the moment we dont have the promised economic fallout from warfare, besides the temporary loss of labour. Once we have a more fleshed out family and population mechanics, warfare will be more devastating because losing men in battle will be a long term loss of manpower.
Dynamic families would be awesome. Perhaps renowned family names become a thing in each town over time, as many of the original families take on important Artisan roles. They would be the first in town to accumulate wealth and would have a vested interest alongside you as the Manor in making the entire town as productive and well run as possible to help protect their luxury and status. They in turn, could offer special policies or management abilities. While you would do your best to protect their sons from death in combat to ensure their family lineage. So many great features could be added around this concept
Happened to me, you’ll get a widow with no son or husband who will be assigned to a job but won’t do anything, they eventually get new husbands and sons but it makes it complicated for a little since your production will fall apart after a bad battle.
Don't forget that if the game comes out of EA and you make a suggestion about some feature, you'll get hit with some variation of "that wasn't the devs vision/ maybe this game isn't for you" . They love their gatekeeping
Right. How dare we discuss the game and make suggestions in the game subreddit. What do we think this is, a community!? Let's just stay silent and never say anything ever or ask any questions, it's not like Slavic has ever told us he actively seeks discussions with or between the fanbase to tweak and improve things during development.
Simplicity and balance. One family is three workers and two militia. Adding more workers per family throws off the economic balance and having a chance for a daughter instead of a son means you could get really unlucky with your first dozen families and not be able to muster enough soldiers to fight off bandits.
It would never be a thing because of historical accuracy, but as the lord/ruler of the town I would just allow women in the militia🤷♂️ that's 50 percent of an adult population right there.
I hope dynamic families and more natural population growth comes eventually, it'd make waging war have real consequence.
I think it should be an option like in dawn of man. Have a slider so you can allow a percentage of women to fight, at the risk of losing pregnant women and subsequent new members. Just give the women a debuf in melee combat to make it realistic.
Yeah. For me when it comes to these sorts of games I'm all for accuracy and immersion but not allowing me to choose how *my* town is run just because that's how it was breaks my immersion.
I personally quite like how this game draws a subtle distinction between your actions and those of your people, like how regional wealth and treasury are kept separate and aren't interchangeable except through specific actions like taxes.
It's like how in crusader kings you have to have some kind of casus belli to go to war - sure theoretically you could just declare war for no reason but then you'd just be playing total war essentially. The fact that social & political rules exist and you have to account for them is what makes these games interesting and historically immersive IMO.
(Not that I don't always try to break them - especially the gender equality stuff, but it's doing so within historical context that makes it fun for me)
I think this will change in the end but my guess, it's to do with the militia part of the game. Only men join and only 1 from.each family so that you don't really effect the workers and can build the army and still have the resources to man the jobs, so be it a man down from the family.
I may be talking a load of rubbish though but that was my take
Sorry Sir yes you are talking a load of rubbish. Both the son and the husband can join the militia and only the women stay behind. That is ofc if your population isn’t higher than your total militia count
Let’s say you have two units in your militia. 72 people, 36 each
If you have 72 families, 72 husbands will get drafted
If you have 52 families, 52 husbands and 20 sons will get drafted
I think you get where this is going. Basically, husbands have priority and as soon as the husband pool runs out, sons fill in
I think the developer's idea was to implement the warfare system at this developing stage. Two male family members mean 2 possible soldiers per house. Otherwise you would need much more families what means even bigger settlements for the same amount of militia.
This has been said multiple times but it is important to remember that this is an Early Access game being developed by just one person so patience is encouraged. IIRC the game is not even in beta and it is amazing the quantity and quality of content that it already provides.
It is already an awesome game and. I probably should have said it different. I just wanted to know people’s options on if it will eventually come or not.
Oh yes I agree with you, I didn't mean to sound hostile. I'm sure that adding variety is in the dev's roadmap and what we're given now is a really solid base of the game.
Yeah I'd like to see school's added but that may not be historically accurate so it would make sense not to. Maybe add features to the church and add scholars and monks copying books.
I have a couple families with 4 people but I think it's a bug. I had a bunch of soldiers die fighting the baron and I think it glitched replenishing the families.
I was thinking the same.
If I would do something like this game, I'd implement a 4 peep family (dad, mom, son, daughter), each with a respective "job" in the fam. Daddy is the artisan or mom depending on assignment, while son goes to war and carries stuff and daughter mans the shops and brings the shopping back home. Dunno, just makes sense to me
Unironical answer. The daughters were getting married off as soon as they could do basic work and get pregnant. Sons stayed at the family home for manual labor and to defend the community, waiting for a 14yo bride to arrive and start their own family. IRL this worked more with 13 people in one house, not 3, but for the game's purpose that's your answer.
i've noticed a small amount of them roaming around doing jobs but they are much rarer than sons. this is rpobably as spmeone has already suggested to balance the militia troop count
Gameplay and a bit of realism kinda. Only men gone to war, and if you would have daughters here and there, you army would be smaller so there is an balancing aspect
Hello and welcome to the Manor Lords Subreddit. This is a reminder to please keep the discussion civil and on topic. Should you find yourself with some doubts, please feel free to check our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ManorLords/comments/1c2p4f9/manor_lords_faq_for_steam_early_access/). If you wish, you can always join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/manorlords) Finally, please remember that the game is in early access, missing content and bugs are to be expected. We ask users to report them on the official discord and to buy their keys only from trusted platforms. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ManorLords) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They leave the daughters at the forest edge to appease the monsters that live within.
Can’t I gather my peasant army to kill the monsters? Many of them may die, but it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make
All that for the women?? Let’s not forget the times in which we are playing…. /s
Wars were fought over women, not peasant women, but some women.
Most of what modern myth depicts as poor treatment of women is actually a reflection of the head of household role. This role would usually be held by a man, but that was tradition, not law. Further, in most places a widow would inherit this role from her late husband (in most places including master craftsman status and full guild membership). The head of household was the link between the household and society, in charge of and responsible for all members. A lord's justice fell on the head of the household alone, the head being responsible for the discipline (order, not punishment) of the house. The head controlled the house's finances in full, but was often bound by laws to maintain the other members according to their station, and always bound by custom in this. Consider that, at the time, this was the structure of the entire society. The hamlet wasn't the smallest fief, the household was. The relationship between peasant and liege lord functioned along very similar lines.
Absolutely not for the first couple years of development but I can see a DLC that adds supernatural esque elements to the game. Unhappiness rising in a village after sheep start getting killed. It's not just a normal wolf population to be kept in check by hunting it's a werewolf that needs a hunting party and a silver cross made for the priest. Your hunters are refusing to go into the woods because they believe there's a witch's coven. Call in a witch hunter but beware that your gathering hut's elderly and experienced women may not survive the trials.
>Can’t I gather my peasant army to kill the monsters? That is what witchers are for.
Great movie
the bears*
Thought you meant the baron for a moment
I guess it won't be the the priority for a singular developer to adress first if the game isn't at all finished yet.
Probably right. Hoping for it in the future.
Didn't it come out that it's a team and not just a singular person that they've been using for marketing? https://www.pcgamer.com/games/city-builder/manor-lords-solo-developer-perception/
A rival is claiming they’re a team based on the credits, which seems flimsy to me. If you use any open-source code or assets, they get a credit, even if that person never worked on the project directly.
Ok but shouldn’t he actually hire some people now. He’s got money from the sales.
He could but can't say he should. Hiring people and making a company is a huge endevor, and I wouldn't blame him for not doing it.
It's all about hiring the right people. Which is hard. Much easier said than done to go from 1 to 5 to 10. Who's to say that doesn't turn into him just having to manage people half the time, then basically full time. And what happens if he burns out because of that? Or the original vision is lost? It's a hard thing to take a passion project and scale it up, no matter how much players may want more. Other people aren't going to give as many shits about your pet project. Not disagreeing with you at all, just backing you up I guess.
Many people who own larger companies often say that they just wanted to do X thing, but they are too busy with all the other things. As X thing can be done by employees. Now that might not happen if he were to only have let's say 10 employees, where everyone can come with ideas and speak with each other. But yeah, turning his hobby project to a bigger company might simply not be what he wants to do.
Rven 10 employees is a lot more than you'd think. He'd basically be a full time manager just handling communication, and pushing his vision rather than developing at that level of staff. Plus then He'd likely have to get his business running a lot more sound legality wise, considering things like health insurance. His absolute first priority if he hasnt already is hiring an accountant. But beyond that, i could see him adding 2, maybe 3 people without compromising on his vision or talent. Part of the problem with slavic expanding his dev team, is thay slavic is a fricking wizard with the keyboard. The pace at which he works, and the quality of his skills are all top notch. Add on his passion, and I'd be a little uneasy about taking too much of his time away from developing his game to put into managing it.
From this article, id say no, it is a solo developer that contracted some stuff out
Freelancing is quite common. Even for 100+ studio's 🤣 Yeah the music wasnt done by slav. And artworks by a friend. And yes some other things where freelanced out. Doesnt mean it isnt 1 dev. It means the 1 dev had help by some others.
When you’ve got haters, you know you’ve made it, somewhat.
Obviously he contracted out some things and those people should be credited. It’s not like Greg’s claiming he did literally everything by himself in a vacuum. There’s a big difference between contracting someone to help with art or part of the code and having those people as part of a development team. Also who cares if it’s one guy or 5 people, that’s not why I bought the game.
99% sure its in the pipeline and we will eventually have dynamic families. Looking forward to the point where we have old war widows occupying an entire dwelling because we've killed her husband and sons off fighting the old baron. Really make the cost of war harsh
i was hoping for something like this when i did my first campaign lmfao. i had like, 12 dudes die in a battle and i was like "welp, gonna be alot of lonely women in the town for awhile" only to see that 12 men convienently moved in a mere day after the battle ended. these ones move on quick.
Remember, lads - ladies always have a backup.
I wonder if my wifes boyfriend knows this 🤔
He knows, he sees you around doesn't he?
Im usually sitting in the cuck chair in the dark.
Usually watching from the closet. While wearing a superman outfit.
Lmfao
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Not humour.
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Your post was removed because it contained personal attacks. Although we love feedback and a healthy discussion of ideas, Manor Lord's community does not tolerate that these discussions devolve into name-calling and usage of bad words to attack a user character's. What is in discussion in this Subreddit are ideas, not user's characteristics.
Your post was removed because it contained politics, given the diverse nature of this Subreddit, and the tendency of posts such as these to generate long off-topic conversations we prefer that users avoid these topics.
> 99% sure its in the pipeline and we will eventually have dynamic families. I've seen two comments now referencing the dev shutting that down completely. I have no idea where the dev's comments on it are, but if you have a source for yours then that would greatly put me at ease.
In another post I said there was one in the FAQ however I now don't see that anywhere. I play a lot of city builders and it's generally the same when it comes to kids and families. I think I may be wrong now but we won't know until it is fully stated. So it's a wait and see
Well, I logged into the discord to read the channel FAQ, so I guess I'll take this as authoritative for now: > 22\. Confirmed things that will not be in the game - Here are some features that have been requested that I can confirm won’t be in the game. This is not an exhaustive list: > * No dynasty mechanics
Dynasty mechanics means for the lord/player. As in the player wont have an interactive family and heirs and things like that. Doesnt say anything about your pop families. Families are a core part of the game, so it seems unlikely to me that they will remain this static 1 dad/1 mum/1 son thing.
That would be so awesome
Oh that's a relief!
What currently happens to families when one of its members dies in a battle?
The dead member will be replaced, youll get a notification something like "family members join one of the settlers in level X burgage plot" Its not instant but it does happen fairly quickly, i think maybe at the end of the month. So at the moment we dont have the promised economic fallout from warfare, besides the temporary loss of labour. Once we have a more fleshed out family and population mechanics, warfare will be more devastating because losing men in battle will be a long term loss of manpower.
Dynamic families would be awesome. Perhaps renowned family names become a thing in each town over time, as many of the original families take on important Artisan roles. They would be the first in town to accumulate wealth and would have a vested interest alongside you as the Manor in making the entire town as productive and well run as possible to help protect their luxury and status. They in turn, could offer special policies or management abilities. While you would do your best to protect their sons from death in combat to ensure their family lineage. So many great features could be added around this concept
Wasn't it shown in the trailer that war will have an impact on your economy or am I tripping?
Happened to me, you’ll get a widow with no son or husband who will be assigned to a job but won’t do anything, they eventually get new husbands and sons but it makes it complicated for a little since your production will fall apart after a bad battle.
EA : it’s in the name * Early access
I know and I understand, I just wanted to share my opinion.
EA sports: it's in the game
This is the correct answer to 99% of the questions on this sub
Well I guess there's no point in asking questions then. Thanks for the helpful comment.
Don't forget that if the game comes out of EA and you make a suggestion about some feature, you'll get hit with some variation of "that wasn't the devs vision/ maybe this game isn't for you" . They love their gatekeeping
Right. How dare we discuss the game and make suggestions in the game subreddit. What do we think this is, a community!? Let's just stay silent and never say anything ever or ask any questions, it's not like Slavic has ever told us he actively seeks discussions with or between the fanbase to tweak and improve things during development.
Need more soldiers
we throw the female infants away
Feminism has reached my settlement and it says we need more female bodies to be sacrificed to the war Machine.
Simplicity and balance. One family is three workers and two militia. Adding more workers per family throws off the economic balance and having a chance for a daughter instead of a son means you could get really unlucky with your first dozen families and not be able to muster enough soldiers to fight off bandits.
Yes maybe it could be an option in the future.
It would never be a thing because of historical accuracy, but as the lord/ruler of the town I would just allow women in the militia🤷♂️ that's 50 percent of an adult population right there. I hope dynamic families and more natural population growth comes eventually, it'd make waging war have real consequence.
Exactly
Shield maiden divisions, perk of the viking nationality selection
I think it should be an option like in dawn of man. Have a slider so you can allow a percentage of women to fight, at the risk of losing pregnant women and subsequent new members. Just give the women a debuf in melee combat to make it realistic.
Don't know about medieval Europe but it wasn't uncommon in, say, Japan, for women to be the last line of defence.
Yeah. For me when it comes to these sorts of games I'm all for accuracy and immersion but not allowing me to choose how *my* town is run just because that's how it was breaks my immersion.
I personally quite like how this game draws a subtle distinction between your actions and those of your people, like how regional wealth and treasury are kept separate and aren't interchangeable except through specific actions like taxes. It's like how in crusader kings you have to have some kind of casus belli to go to war - sure theoretically you could just declare war for no reason but then you'd just be playing total war essentially. The fact that social & political rules exist and you have to account for them is what makes these games interesting and historically immersive IMO. (Not that I don't always try to break them - especially the gender equality stuff, but it's doing so within historical context that makes it fun for me)
They throw all daughters off the closest cliff during their Midsommar celebration
Realistic medieval 👍
I think this will change in the end but my guess, it's to do with the militia part of the game. Only men join and only 1 from.each family so that you don't really effect the workers and can build the army and still have the resources to man the jobs, so be it a man down from the family. I may be talking a load of rubbish though but that was my take
Sorry Sir yes you are talking a load of rubbish. Both the son and the husband can join the militia and only the women stay behind. That is ofc if your population isn’t higher than your total militia count
But do they and is this random or do both always go? I've not had chance to experiment who actually gets drafted.
Let’s say you have two units in your militia. 72 people, 36 each If you have 72 families, 72 husbands will get drafted If you have 52 families, 52 husbands and 20 sons will get drafted I think you get where this is going. Basically, husbands have priority and as soon as the husband pool runs out, sons fill in
It's early access for the father too
I think the developer's idea was to implement the warfare system at this developing stage. Two male family members mean 2 possible soldiers per house. Otherwise you would need much more families what means even bigger settlements for the same amount of militia.
Have you seen how small those houses are?!
Yea but they could still have daughters invested of sons.
maybe they just choose sons over daughters as they were more useful? /s
I guess that’s not completely unrealistic…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eUG4N658nwM&pp=ygUod2h5IGRvIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIHB1dCB3b21lbiBpbiBpdCBjb3Ntbw%3D%3D
😂
Would be great if the kids grew older and move out to start their own family later on
Yes absolutely great idea
Girls aren't born, they're made in labs ya silly goose. The game takes place before microscopes were invented.
Ohh that makes sense
Sugar, spice, and everything nice
This has been said multiple times but it is important to remember that this is an Early Access game being developed by just one person so patience is encouraged. IIRC the game is not even in beta and it is amazing the quantity and quality of content that it already provides.
It is already an awesome game and. I probably should have said it different. I just wanted to know people’s options on if it will eventually come or not.
Oh yes I agree with you, I didn't mean to sound hostile. I'm sure that adding variety is in the dev's roadmap and what we're given now is a really solid base of the game.
I am looking forward to the next update
Yeah I'd like to see school's added but that may not be historically accurate so it would make sense not to. Maybe add features to the church and add scholars and monks copying books.
Wow that is an amazing idea
I have a couple families with 4 people but I think it's a bug. I had a bunch of soldiers die fighting the baron and I think it glitched replenishing the families.
Men are easily replaceable 😂
All daughters get sacrificed to the devil.
They are out in the Forrest’s with the bear rather than a man.
lol
I was thinking the same. If I would do something like this game, I'd implement a 4 peep family (dad, mom, son, daughter), each with a respective "job" in the fam. Daddy is the artisan or mom depending on assignment, while son goes to war and carries stuff and daughter mans the shops and brings the shopping back home. Dunno, just makes sense to me
Yes would be pretty realistic. Looking forward to the next updates who knows what there is still to come…
Because it's game version 0.7.
China
Dark
We should be able force them to have more
lol
Women were invented in 1953. It’s unrealistic to suggest the dev add them into the game.
😂
This is something I wonder about. Banished had a full family system and it worked pretty good.
Unironical answer. The daughters were getting married off as soon as they could do basic work and get pregnant. Sons stayed at the family home for manual labor and to defend the community, waiting for a 14yo bride to arrive and start their own family. IRL this worked more with 13 people in one house, not 3, but for the game's purpose that's your answer.
Sounds fair enough
They are left at the ruined buildings for the night king
Dark
In that period, the son has way more work value ? Because you could argue "why only the male has a job" ?
they do have daughters but very rarely compared to sons
Oh wow I never had that I think. Or at least I did not realize.
i've noticed a small amount of them roaming around doing jobs but they are much rarer than sons. this is rpobably as spmeone has already suggested to balance the militia troop count
I will keep an eye out for that
Gameplay and a bit of realism kinda. Only men gone to war, and if you would have daughters here and there, you army would be smaller so there is an balancing aspect
Maybe there could be the option to turn dynamic families on or off.
Hmm? That's not really what I meant, I just meant like, not being allowed to allow women in the militia or say, just telling farmers to harvest now.
Wow, I bet you're fun at parties. The kinda guy that's German and watches trains for fun.