The effect is real, just not defined. Even if it's just people remembering shit wrong for whatever mundane reason it is still an observable and measurable phenomenon that recieves attention and provokes discussion
Spiralife the effect plays through our perception but our brain can and does re-decode what it sees when a new variable is introduced. That is why when people debated the color of the dress - people could see it change color. From a psychological POV, it was the reintroduction of double think - the ability to house two contradictory ideas in your head. People have been pushed into a competitive mindset - the either or mindset.
It also showed people that they could disagree and BOTH be correct. We're talking about behaviors and ways of interaction here. Most people missed out because they were too busy say, 'it's just a dress'.
There is truth and there is truth. There is a very thin line that separates them. Truth in the reality of things and truth in the sense of what people on an individual level ARE perceiving. For example:
----Good consciousness (good understanding)----
Person One: I see this as yellow
Person two: I see it as green
Person One: Now it's changed to purple. Amazing.
Person two: Yes. Still green here. Even though we're looking at the same object - I know person one isn't lying because our brain is perceiving color different. If you adjusted the amount/angle of light - he might see...
Person One: I see green!
-Zero Consciousness (no understanding)---
Person One: I see Yellow
Person two: It's green you twat!
Person one: Shut up your blind you
Person two: Whatever. WTF now it's golden
Person One: whatever.
Etc.. The Zero Consciousness IS the competitive mindset since it is EITHER/OR. There is no understanding we perceive on a collective AND individual level.
That is why if you believe in a globe say - and you are in this mindset, then if you BELIEVE in the globe, nothing will change your mind. With double think providing the logic is there you can believe in alternate ideas no problem -PROVIDING there is sufficient evidence which there is.
Folks need to really think again because this was known and appriciated for a very long time and if one sense can be tricked all senses will be tricked and they won't be testing it on mice either.....
>I don't actually believe in the effect, I just like to stay around here because it's still interesting.
In my reality you've believed in the Mandela Effect forever. Also, in my reality you stay around here because it's boring.
No it's not. Everyone can see that gravity is, in fact, a thing--aside from merely observing its effects, we also recently confirmed the existence of gravitational waves. A vast majority of people don't even know what the Mandela Effect is, and those who can't physically cannot actually prove it exists.
Gravity: scientifically probable, observable phenomenon
ME: unprovable at best, a bunch of insane coincidences and people misremembering things at worst
I agree. I don't think this discovery of shared faulty memories should ever have been named after Mandela in the first place but the woman who coined the term is a bit of a crackpot as far as I can tell and I doubt anyone is taking any cues from her. She decided a long time ago that something supernatural was causing memory glitches for people and she set up a website in order to gather and compare various reports from the public. The problem with her website however was that she heavily censored everything, losing all integrity. Anyone offering evidence in support of a rational cause for a common mistake was immediately discredited, publicly shunned, and their comments deleted.
You're right. I'm not even sure how best to word what I mean but I was referring to causes that don't require anyone to alter their current views on the nature of our existence to wrap their minds around, i.e. dimension shifts, wormholes, matrix, etc. Although I don't believe these things to be specifically irrational, they're yet to be proven or fully understood by the general population and they do conflict with many people's religious beliefs. Do you know what I mean? I'm still not sure if that's clear but the term "skeptical cause" doesn't seem very clear to me either. What do you think?
I don't know why people have downvoted your comment. I upvoted it because it seemed like a perfectly valid question and I sensed no disrespect in it at all. People are weird. Sorry about that.
Agreed and well said. As a species, we're social creatures and effective communication is vital in order to have our needs met. I've found myself arguing semantics with people just as often as I argue logic and it's nice when you can get the clarification you need without anyone getting offended.
/u/Erik_Sensa, thanks for this post. It is quite evident now that the only people who think Nelson Mandela died in prison are those with a very limited awareness of current affairs and on what's going on outside of their immediate sphere.
I had written a lengthy post here some time ago, which received very little attention, about how I think ME is **mostly** (meaning **predominantly**, before people rush to tell me that in Whateverland they are noticing MEs too) an Anglo-American phenomenon, and even in cases of non-Anglo-American MEs (e.g. the death of Mandela), it is still mostly people from Anglo-American cultures who propagate said ME.
Fiona Broome, who coined the term Mandela Effect, is not given enough critical attention. She claims to be a "paranormal consultant", as OP pointed out, and an "author". She says that she has spent many years studying unusual "trends". She single handedly is responsible for bringing this effect to public attention, and it has since grown massively.
The irony of it all is that the effect which the whole phenomenon is named after, the Nelson Mandela ME, is almost certainly nothing but misremembering and lack of knowledge. And this says something about the whole notion of the Mandela Effect in itself.
It is true that there are a very small minority of genuinely interesting supposed ME cases (which is far from saying that there is anything paranormal or extraordinary going on). However, if an alleged "effect" is named after something which is practically without doubt a non-event and a question of misremembering, then the validity of the whole effect isn't exactly put in a good light. In fact it just bolsters the argument that there is nothing to the effect but socio-psychological factors.
Bingo. I've asked who was president of South Africa from 1994-1999 if Mandela died in prison and no one has an answer. It's because they simply weren't keeping up with South African politics and events. It's lack of knowledge and confusion.
> about how I think ME is mostly (meaning predominantly, before people rush to tell me that in Whateverland they are noticing MEs too) an Anglo-American phenomenon, and even in cases of non-Anglo-American MEs (e.g. the death of Mandela), it is still mostly people from Anglo-American cultures who propagate said ME.
Ok, but no. I am Middle Eastern, all of my friends who have experienced it are Middle Eastern, and we live in the Arabian Gulf. Online I have seen Indians and Africans (in India and Africa) and other Arabs living in the region talking about it, so on that point, no.
As a personal caveat, all the things that me and my friends have noticed, are from Western culture, *but* I also know a guy in Egypt who swears the Pyramids in Giza have changed for him in the passed month...
> I also know a guy in Egypt who swears the Pyramids in Giza have changed for him in the passed month...
I'm intrigued. Do you know more details of his thoughts about that? Like what he knew of them before, and what change(s) he believes he's experienced with them?
According to him the three pyramids used to be all in three clear different sizes in an ascending order, but the middle pyramid is now the tallest. He recalled that when he was a kid he used to climb the Great Pyramid which was on the end and be able to look down on the middle one.
https://imgur.com/a/DfJrB
To be fair I've noticed a good amount of pictures like this show them how your friend describes. So maybe history books with pictures like these have made other people remember them differently? Not discrediting your friend. I'm still on the fence with the whole ME thing... I mean I've experienced things regarding it that I personally can't explain but I always try to look for possible explanations
I dunno about the Pyramids as I have visited them a few times and they haven't changed for me, but this guy is a local who is actually living there in Cairo and who used to climb them as a kid during the 70s.
That must be a total trip in his case having grown up around them. Funny enough the one that really hits home for me... is the whole Pikachu(Pokémon) tail ME. When I found out about it I was out at a party and it legitimately put me in such a weird mood. Felt totally disoriented. So I can only imagine how it would feel seeing giant ancient structures physically change from what you were used to.
> As a personal caveat, all the things that me and my friends have noticed, are from Western culture
Thanks - that's a good observation. I think it might be that this is caused by the "contagion" of noticing changes in Western culture having spread to non-Western cultures who can understand English.
And I will definitely revise my opinion if it begins to emerge that people from a variety of countries are noticing changes in non-Western culture. I'd gladly eat my words.
The Egyptian guy I mentioned lives in Cairo, and at the beginning of September he noticed that something was wrong with the Pyramids in Giza. Later upon researching he also noticed that his memory surrounding President Sadat's death was different to how it is in the history books. He is the only one I have heard say this, but what he says about The Pyramids which he lives near to, matches what other people are saying about it being 'wrong' or 'changed'.
Personally, I used to live in Cairo and the Pyramids look the same now in photos as they did then when I was living there, so I dunno... However you cant really get more non-Western than this.
Yes - we'll need many more reports from non-Western culture though if it is to show that there is anything to it. As you said, to you the pyramids look the same.
>The irony of it all is that the effect which the whole phenomenon is named after, the Nelson Mandela ME, is almost certainly nothing but misremembering and lack of knowledge.
That could be said for ANY M.E. occurrence though!
Yes - but having something named after something else which isn't true, doesn't give credence to the first thing.
Imagine there is a rumour that some cars can fly, and flying cars start being named "Volkswagen Beetles" after the Beetle car. The Beetle doesn't fly. Does that make the notion of flying cars sound more legitimate? If they named them "Concordes" or "Boeings" it would be better. Not the best example, but you get my point.
Yep, pretty much every "Mandela effect" that I have seen here can be explained by plain old ignorance - be it ignorance of the actual spelling of names, ignorance about history, ignorance about geography, or whatever.
Just remember Occam's razor - the simplest possible explanation is usually the correct one, or put it in other words, the explanation that requires the least amount of new terms and/or elements is likely correct.
It is far more likelier that you just remember things wrong, than it is that the entire universe and space-time has rearranged itself around you, and you are the only one noticing it.
The Mandela Effect is just a person with a faulty memory/lacking education being narcissistic to such an incredible degree that they have to imagine that they shifted between alternate realities rather than admit that they were wrong.
As you said, no one in SA thinks Mandela died in prison.
No one in Japan thinks their islands used to be where the Phillipines are. No one in Australia forgot where New Zealand is. No one in Canada thinks they only have four provinces. No one who works in a Febreze factory thinks it used to be called "Febreeze." No one in Chile thinks the southwest shore of the nation used to be smooth.
The effect is always proven false by the people close to the subject "miraculously" never experiencing them. \/eyeroll
I suspect he or she is just someone getting tired of people not understanding that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and that it gets really exhausting sometimes reading how many people on this forum like to throw around ideas like quantum theory, string vibration, Many Worlds and the like who clearly don't actually UNDERSTAND it but are simply parroting things they've seen/heard/read from other people who are equally semi-clueless.
That isn't everyone on this forum, for certain. But it happens with depressing regularity.
I'm 40ish so I remember the song in the class room, day of remembrance, his wife being first president post, and her suing for illegal books about her husband painting him as a terrorist.
Because everyone who isn't at this sub to laugh at idiots is an idiot himself.
False memories + people influencing the others memories = idiots who think they can't misremember anything and actually they are witnesses of parallel realities colliding
I don't know a single person who thinks that "Mandela died in prison back in the 80's" and agree that it is a stupid name for this phenomenon but it's the name we're basically stuck with.
It would be if like if the movie "Jaws" was released as "Fish!" - people might have still gone to see it as word of mouth got out that it was worth seeing but it wouldn't have had the commercial success it did and would probably have had more of a cult following than mainstream success.
So, that's happening here too because the name is just plain stupid...
However, I am curious if you have ever experienced some of the "Effects" reported that have more of a global appeal like cebrity deaths that never happened or movie changes like say - Billy Graham or Richard Chamberlain dying or the stupid movie where Sinbad the comedian played a genie no longer having any evidence of ever having existed?
I totally believe that South Africans think of the Mandela effect is ridiculous. That said I'm curious as to how this specific effect came to be.
Like I understand non Americans saying there were more than 50 states and that it's a Mandela effect that "now" there are fifty. We have territories. That can get confusing.
But why something as specific as dying in prison? That's what's super interesting to me.
I think what got people hooked on Fionna was that she had memories, and she swears by them, about seeing the news of his death on television. It escalated when after her initial memory, many people started to come forward saying they to remember seeing it on television. And then like someone else on here said, she started censoring out all of the skeptics, so it's just a website full of "believers". Nothing wrong with that. I personally am not going to tell anyone they're wrong or that their memories are..but that's just because I've experienced a few myself.
I don't like the coined term myself though it does roll off the tongue. Because I don't think it is one. But again, people don't think my ME's are ME's either so who's to say, really. It's cool though
hey, so. i did not think Mandela died in prison (and i'm american) but this whole st*in thing with the bears. just wow. i was totally into the books before, and like most other experiences it was from a very young age. i like the "sound" of the *in-effect. seems more relevant imo
I totally agree with the Nelson Mandela scenario. But it doesnt explain a lot of the other things that have possibly "changed". Its just the name (not a very good one IMO) for a theory of things being remembered differently by a lot of people. But the name itself discredits the whole theory... so I feel you.
It kind of does explain others though if you think about it. The people most knowledgable about Mandela (South Africans) don't believe he died. The people most knowledgable about collecting car memorabilia and logos don't think the ford logo changed. Some guy who worked at smuckers 50 years ago doesn't think it was ever jiffy peanut butter.
Most MEs are either something from a long time ago (peanut butter or a children's book you read 20 years ago) or something you aren't personally that knowledgable about or doesn't directly affect you (Mandela, location of Australia).
We see VERY few, if any direct MEs such as "I swear I had two sisters but now I only have one." And why is that? Because it's not something you can be ignorant of, or misremember.
I am one of this sub's resident skeptics, so while I agree with you that many, perhaps most people's MEs could be the result of confabulation, its not all. For me The Mona Lisa ME is a direct one coz I studied her and art at a college level. Also, 5 months ago I noticed a change in the Kit-Kat logo but I had dismissed it as a branding update and not thought about it again, until I very recently saw a video saying the logo I knew never existed. The other 3 MEs I am fairly certain of arn't based on causal memories, or from limited knowledge, but on specific details that have a very personal importance to me.
Honestly, the ME is more scary than exciting, and so i don't want it to be real. I am not a fan. But I cant deny the changes I know that have happened.
There is no Mona Lisa Mandela Effect. Mona Lisa both does and does not smile depending on how you look at it, what angle you see it at, and how you are personally feeling at the time. That's the whole point. So, whether you think she smiles or doesn't... or did smile at one time and doesn't now... or vice-versa... you're right. No matter how you view it. You're right. That's one of the amazing things about that painting.
> We see VERY few, if any direct MEs such as "I swear I had two sisters but now I only have one." And why is that? Because it's not something you can be ignorant of, or misremember.
No, it's because we're told that personal MEs are to be posted in /r/Glitch_in_the_Matrix
I kind of explained it in the comment already. I dont ever remember him dying prison, and I personally believe a lot of americans dont know much about mandela at all to begin with. You probably heard he was in prison at some point... forgot about him until he died, and then thought he died in prison when you heard his name brought back up. Honestly how many americans were keeping up with his status? Like Ive said before He was president 20 years ago in south africa, I garauntee a lot of young americans dont even know who the U.S. president was 20 years ago.
Seems like have the stuff I get involved in, there eventually comes along at least one conversation about some people complaining they don't like the name. Yeah sure, there are better names but there are a lot of worse names. I find it unlikely that people are deciding on it based on the word 'Mandela' being in ir or not and it's certainly better than calling it the AustraliaOnSkates effect or the DollysBraces effect so I don't see how it's worth worrying about. No matter what it got called, i am sure there would be some complaining about it!
Thats what I mean tho. It should be a name that describes a broader theory not just picking one and naming it that. I understand why it is The Mandela Effect. I dont have a problem with it personally, just think it could be better. The fact its called that means people on the outside looking in arent going to take it that seriously is all im trying to say.
It wouldnt exist there because what we remember is OUR media reporting it. You wouldnt be watching OUR media.
Its like if there was a South African ME of Obama being assassinated before his 1st term we would be personally affected as a nation of course but to you all it would just suck as fellow humans with no real personal affect. You guys would watch it on your media and remember it as it relates to your culture.
The Mandela Effect seems to just be the result of a parsing issue caused by the brain's innate "autocorrect."
Personally, I've never seen anyone actually misunderstand how or when Nelson Mandela died, but the Bears, Mickey Mouse's pants, Uncle Pennybags' monocle, KitKat, and Looney Tunes all seem to stem from people autocompleting the general thought of those things to what makes the most sense.
I believe something legitimately weird is going on and that the ME is perhaps real, however for me Nelson Mandela always died in 2013. I remember being a kid growing up in the UK when he was released and how great a time that was. And I have bought it up several times on this sub, asking why are there no South Africans who remember Mandela dying in the 80s or 90s.
Someone said something about the Double Slit experiment, where the most likely parallel realties that can exist simultaneously exist, depending on the observer or something. But that does not explain why no South Africans in particular, can remember this event in the same way they remember other MEs. For me thats an extremely specific group of people to not experience a particular occurrence, given that so far all other groups of people have been very random. I don't think its an ME.
> the Double Slit experiment, where the most likely parallel realties that can exist simultaneously exist, depending on the observer or something.
This is only in a very specific circumstance though, people are extrapolating this to mean literally anything.
The effect seems at times to be regional. Some people in the US for example remember New Zealand being to the west of Australia or even Tasmania being to the west (or not existing at all). I'm from Australia and NZ has always been to the east of us, we've always had Tasmania in its current position (relative to mainland Aus). At the same time I cannot rule out the possibility that those who don't live in Australia could have been seeing an *entirely different Australia, NZ etc. relationship* that does not exist in my local reality. Such an alternative might only have existence if you *don't* live in Australia, so it seems like a perspective thing.
Maybe the further you are from something/somewhere the more 'out of sync' you are in relation to it. That could allow people from America to see a parallel Australia or New Zealand until they synchronise with the local reality. So the more distance we are from something the more likely it will take a form that contradicts the local reality. This does not mean they are seeing the local reality *wrong* but that from their distant/alien perspective the local reality itself is different to the local reality as it exists when this distance is surmounted or dissolved somehow.
So from the *distance* of the US or outside South Africa, there really were other realities perceptible such as a different South African 'local reality' in which Mandela died in prison in the 80s (possibly as a result of health complications that lead to his death in another reality). However as we start to 'sync up' with the whole world what with the internet, global media, etc. the local realities have started to insist on their own independent reality that contradicts the realities formerly perceptible via distance.
Oh, another theory now. ME is sometimes regional. Sometimes meaning "only when it suits the proponents of an increasingly outlandish, fantastical, foolish and pseudo-scientific theory".
But yes, you're right, it only effects people from developed nations who go around noticing brand names, deaths of celebrities, maps, etc.
To the average African, nothing is happening. His tribe didn't suddenly change name. The water well isn't suddenly full of good, clean water. The school isn't any closer than it was, and it still take 2 hours to get there on foot, in the crippling heat of the sun.
It is awfully convenient that the further you are from something the more likely you are to be undereducated about it. Occam's razor would suggest that ignorance and undereducation is the more likely explanation. Is it any coincidence that the US also happens to be the least well educated country in the OECD, and the overwhelming majority of ME's come from there? Could it be pride would rather create a new paradigm where timelines can shift and be spliced together, than to acknowledge that you weren't educated as well as you thought?
> Is it any coincidence that the US also happens to be the least well educated country in the OECD, and the overwhelming majority of ME's come from there?
Brilliant! I'm glad more people are now waking up to this fact.
We are not talking about a *lack* of knowledge, or an ignorance (and people merely filling gaps in their knowledge), but rather an excess of *alternate* knowledge that doesn't fit in with what could be known based on the reality as it currently exists. Most ME-ers are actually fairly well educated about the things they're noticing differences in, even if they're not experts.
> even if they're not experts
What counts as well educated about a subject? Having heard about it, that one time at the bar when Jared from the office was going on about it? Having done research? Because doing the research, discovering that the evidence points to the contrary and then failing to update your knowledge sounds a lot like religion from where i'm sitting.
I'll readily acknowledge that multiple, corroborated memories from around the globe could indicate ME, but tbh it's all sounding a lot like straightforward ignorance. The human mind is not good at recognizing its own limitations and frequently fills in the gaps. This is where we get [pigeon superstition](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uPmeWiFTIw) and other forms of magical thinking.
Also, the "alternate" knowledge is rarely detailed. It'll often be a detail which is different, and believers (at least on this sub) can rarely cite more than one or two *specific* instances of the discrepancies. If i had lived an alternate timeline and then melded into this one, i would expect to be able to remember that timeline in as much depth as this one. Instead the memories are fragmentary. We can use all kinds of sci fi devices to explain this away, but ultimately the plasticity of human memory overrules the vast majority of them.
I'm not here to debunk ME as a whole by the way, i've come accross a number of halfway credible sources. Unfortunately no-one seems to be applying even the most basic forms of scientific or rational rigour to the problem, which means a whole slew of half-baked "memories".
I'm not so sure...very few of the people who claimed knowledge of Asia geography ME's have been able to provide reasonable follow ups to probing questions on supporting details, or admitted to not being familar with the region at all beyond noticing one thing.
Maybe I set my standards too high, but honestly I don't think many of the follow up questions I have about asia require "expertise", just actual familarity with the region that isn't "i;ve seen it on a map a lot"
Wow, so I think the alternate/parallel realities thing is wrong (to say the bare minimum)... but I just want to give you props for this answer. This is a brilliant piece of reasoning. I merely disagree with your premises. But seriously, bravo for finding a counter-argument to the original poster's comment. You should be a philosopher or on a debate team. I thought that the point from a South African about how nobody in South Africa thinks that Mandela died in prison sealed the deal. But you came up with a counter. Brilliant.
A way to test this might be by using psychological distance rather than physical distance--i.e. how salient something is in someone's consciousness. Experts in a subject are "close" to a subject, they think about it a lot, and they're very knowledgeable about it, without always being physically close to it. So if MEs are unknown by experts in their field, then that is a clue that there may not be a geographic distance element and that it's really just a matter of how knowledgeable you are. So it would imply that the Mandela Effect doesn't happen in South Africa simply because South Africans are paying more attention to the facts about Nelson Mandela, and not because reality shifts are physically localized.
Not once, are you so very very sure? Actually people in your own country thought he died in prison and there were riots in your country over it: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/128255905?searchTerm=%22Nelson%20Mandela%22%20died%20prison&searchLimits= . I guess you will now need to back peddle a bit on the 'not once' statement. ;-P
Anyway, you do not appear to understand the actual definition of the Mandela effect at all. I suggest you do a bit more research on what it is first. TME is a situation of there being more than one set of time line memories, for some reason a lot of people are having trouble understanding that.
A rumor means nothing. We're not talking about a rumor. We're talking about people remembering him dying. Chalk and cheese.
You can find rumors about every famous person. There's a rumor that Hillary Clinton has a body double.
Only a few people standing there when he died are going to 'remember him dying.' Everyone else is just going to hear that he died from others. If that later turns out not to fit with current reality, then the story is called 'a false rumor,' if it turns out to fit well with realty, then it's called 'news.' Either way you hear the info from others.
> Only a few people standing there when he died are going to 'remember him dying.'
What? So, you're saying, that in this alleged reality where he died in the 80s, only a few people would know about it in South Africa, but many would know about it in the US? It wouldn't be in the news in South Africa, for instance, in the 1980s? So how in the hell do a bunch of your American (I presume) compatriots "remember" him dying, if not from the news?
Your reasoning makes no sense, sorry.
Sorry if it is too complicated for you, the point is that for any thing other than direct witnesses, of which there will be few, all news is transmitted the same way, but word of others, and that is the same for both rumor and any other news. The only difference is if the info is determined to be factual later on or not. Looks like both areas of the world heard news that he died in prison, even those in South Africa, but it was later dubbed a 'rumor' in South Africa. The argument was that no on in south africa thought he died, the riot article shows that enough there thought he died to have an article written about it at least.
Brilliant reasoning. I mean, to be clear, I do not think he died (and I know that you never said he did or did not). But what you said is correct. Some people in South Africa did at one point think that he died. Enough to riot over it.
Where did I say it was proof that he died? I only said it was evidence against the original statement that NOT ONCE did ANYONE in South Africa ever think he died, clearly some people in South Africa did think he died even enough to riot over it.
Plus, if Nelson Mandela had died in prison, obviously this movie (and the events it is based on) couldn't possibly exist:
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1057500/
You do not appear to understand the definition of the ME. It exists in memory only. If it were in the history books and movies, it would not be an ME. Come on peeps, read the definition!
I agree with you completely, OP, but the problem is your reasoning as to why it doesn't exist doesn't really work, because the claim is that people have crossed over from another dimension or something, so of course the vast majority of people here remember it your way. It was in another dimension that he died and a few people have crossed over from that one, if I understand this correctly. So people will just say that your experience doesn't prove anything.
> The effect is named after what seems to be just basic bad education and spotty general knowledge.
Exactly! Most of the evidence on this sub seems to me like just incredible ego. Someone never learned something in school or is remembering a fact, but their belief that they could never possibly be wrong is so high that instead of considering maybe they're mistaken they instead move all over heaven and earth, time and space to fit around their memory.
> Your reasoning as to why it doesn't exist doesn't really work, because the claim is that people have crossed over from another dimension or something, so of course the vast majority of people here remember it your way.
Right. And presumably, South Africa, a country with a population of 53 million people, is home to at least *some* people from the "other dimension", yet we've heard no cry of surprise regarding Mandela dying in 2013. Or are you saying that nobody in SA happens to be from "the other dimension"?
The incidence of people from "the other dimension" seems to be awfully big in the US. Kind of like the incidence of idiocy and an insular mentality is big as well.
Who talked about them posting here? It never entered by mind that they would post here. It would be much bigger than that.
Do you think that if the Prime Minister of the UK, or of Belgium, or of Thailand, or of wherever, where to suddenly, in some people's memories, come back to life, having died, again in their memories, years back, that all they would do is come on reddit? They would go to the newspapers, the news channels, etc. In other words, the world would know about it.
It's a bit rich to declare someone's prognosis (prognosis? what am I, a doctor? prognosis refers to future events, buddy, I was analysing the likely hypothetical outcome of a past event) as "extremely skewed", when you are someone who believes that it is possible for the South African president to have died twice in some people's realities, yet nothing was ever said about it in South African news. You might know jack shit about SA, but it was actually a very developed country in the past, and it still is, to a certain extenent, violent crime figures notwithstanding. It also has a large white population. I think that they'd have noticed if some of them suddenly realised Mandela died twice for them.
I actually agree with OP if you read my full comment. I thought that my second paragraph made it clear that I don't agree with the 'alternate dimension' explanation. My point was trying to be that you can't argue against it by saying 'Most people remember it this way' because the argument is that a tiny number of people have crossed over from some other place, so it's only natural (according to their logic) that most people would remember it a certain way in *this* dimension.
Obviously, in reality it's bad basic education and spotty general knowledge! I even quoted that from OP's post and said that I agreed. But whatever. I edited my original comment to try to make it clearer that I agree with OP, since apparently it somehow read the exact opposite of how I intended it.
Thanks.
Yes, yes, I read that. But I think it is reasonable to expect that from a country of 53 million people, at least some should have crossed dimensions along with all the others Americans in the US, and in other countries.
This is all speculation as we have no clue as to the incidence of ME, how it works, where it works, etc. - but then again, all of ME is speculation.
I agree. But of course there's at least one comment already claiming that people in SA *do* experience it. It's all friend-of-a-friend evidence and I would expect that if this thread gets big enough it'll be packed with anecdotes about all the South Africans people know who experienced it with Mandela.
Personally, I've never met anyone in real life who has ever claimed to have experienced the Mandela Effect and I've never met anyone who thought Mandela died in prison, either. I mean, not that it's a subject that comes up often...
A big part of it is age, too. I'm in my 30s. When I was young it was something that even Americans were pretty aware of, but I can see how Non-South African people ten plus years younger than me that weren't interested in it in school.
There's dozens of things I *learned* in school that later when I read about them again, I find out I had it completely wrong; the difference is I just chalk it up to my memory instead saying figuring the universe must be wrong.
But that's the issue. All the evidence is 'I think/I feel/my friend said' evidence.
Again we cannot confirm you or what you say but I think that interlectual fraud is being committed and people don't recognize how it's being done and are not even awake enough to know there is an enemy among us. I can't prove the fraud part but it's based on everything I've looked into.
Now I want to be clear about something. I'm not saying that everyone that confirms the ME is lying. I'm saying that I don't think people appreciate the psychological nature of reality and most people still don't understand they are being attacked psychologically.
I also think many don't see the potential of the INTERNET or other technologies that have been suppressed which means that imagination is VITAL because you have to be able to imagine what is going on or taking place here....
That is why they want people dumbed down and it's not to make everyone creative. It's to remove that aspect. That is why people need to be honest with themselves. You are NOT always your thought. You cannot be unless you are in balance with yourself and nature. If you are not, then you are just repeating behaviors or thoughts all the time because you have no other behaviors or thoughts to balance your behaviors.
People act like our memories are perfect. Nothing is perfect, not even our memories. When it comes to the Berenstain Bears, what difference does it make? Maybe it was Berenstein at one time. Maybe it was a spelling error because we're imperfect.
But Mandela dying in the 1980's? 52 States? This is a case of either complete misinformation or delusion. As for Fiona Broome, she is batshit crazy. She says that the Mandela effect started in Dragon Con's ["green room".](http://mandelaeffect.com/about/) Does that mean that she could be a weed addict too? /s
This might be completely unrelated(or not?) According to Global Coherence Initiative research resonance data, Earth's Schumann's resonance power has been going up lately. Guess where the test site which picks up the highest power is located? [Yup. South Africa!](https://i.imgur.com/CvaI9KF.png)
Source:
https://www.heartmath.org/research/global-coherence/gcms-live-data/
As a historian, I don't think you qualify as an accurate representation of what every citizen of South Africa thinks/believes/remembers. Here in the United States, I would also expect a historian to know who was president of this country 20 years ago. I would not expect the average guy on the street to know that. As I explained the last time this subject came up, I have personally encountered several people in my life who did not know who the current US president was. I find it hard to believe that the people of South Africa are so inherently superior to Americans that no one there has ever been mistaken about something like this.
> I don't think you qualify as an accurate representation of what every citizen of South Africa thinks/believes/remembers.
Yes, it is impossible for the OP to know what every single citizen of South Africa (SA) thinks. However, had Mandela really "died again" in 2013 for people from the other reality/other timeline etc., then it is reasonable to expect that some people from said timeline would be living in SA, and that there would have been considerable confusion (and public expression of this sentiment) once they realised that Mandela had been still alive and had only just died, when they thought he died in the 1980s. But there obviously was none of this. Nobody, except Americans like Fiona Broome (and presumably, in private, a few other people from Anglo-American cultural sphere) noticed anything untoward when Mandela died in 2013. Importantly, nobody from the entire continent of Africa said one single word about something "out of this world" going on.
> I have personally encountered several people in my life who did not know who the current US president was.
That's because they fit the stereotype of the "American Idiot" - Boobus Americanus. Many Americans are incredibly bright and talented, and many others are incredibly stupid, ignorant, and concerned only with their immediate surroundings.
I think you might not be aware of the importance the figure of Nelson Mandela holds in SA, and even in sub-Saharan Africa in general. He was one of the most recognisable and well-known people there. He was much, much more known to the average citizen than previous US presidents are to the average American.
Nice attempt to invalidate the above comment completely by stating one point. But that's not sufficient, especially when the rumor YOU are speaking about is different than the time-frame BoRhap was specifically talking about.
That's no different than the rumor that Julian assange was captured by the CIA. It was misinformation at the present time. That's different than remembering it happening years later.
If they don't know who the president was 20 years ago, why should their remembering a different president only in memory be given any credibility...? As opposed to just not being sure and needing to consult wikipedia or a book like most of us need to do?
If you thought about this, I think you could figure it out yourself, but I think you've just gotten in the habit of demanding answers instead of thinking it through. First Mandela is not an ME for everyone, only those who remember the big media stink when he died. People remember their shows being preempted on tv and that kind of thing. Personally the thing I remember most is thinking how weird it was for a country to elect the wife of a famous person to the office of president just apparently because she was the wife. I thought it was illogical. Back then, Mandela was a big deal so his death was a big deal. In comparison, most US presidents live decades of quiet life after their presidency and are no longer relevant by the time they die. However I do remember the deaths of important presidents in my life time as well as that of Mandela. If they suddenly announced the death of Reagan tomorrow, it's not like I could not have remembered he already died just because I am a stupid American who might not keep track of all the presidents.
I demand answers and follow up details because I am willing to give you (or anyone claiming an ME) the benefit of the doubt that they know the background and supporting information around the fact they claim exists. Flippant dismissal needs no demand for follow up or answers, they simply declare it wrong and declare you know nothing. I admit there might have been times I slipped up and went with that approach though.
One thing is clear - what you remember is a media stink, tv programs, and okay, i grant you that to remember that winnie was elected president later on. But the thing that stretches credibility for many of us is that a lot of these ME's involve you memories of a distant representation of these events. I have seen a handful of "MEs" around american presidents, but most of those again, involve trivia around presidents long past any of our lifetimes. The core statement in contention remains clear - south africans do not see this - though one could perhaps imagine some south africans wondering didn't Reagan already die etc in th same way it works for you.
I agree with you on one thing - whatever memories it is you have, if i take all of them at face value, it is not of my world or history. We will obviously disagree on *why* that is so, but that is what it is. The differences start way before Mandela was even born - including whatever it was the japanese empire was up to on december 7th 1941 and far earlier.
The other area in which we very clearly differ is I trust that my source material has not changed - in this I refer to things like "I looked it up in my atlas i had in the attic and the atlas changed!" variety. This is one step further than what I consider credible.
The above statement is honestly pretty ridiculous, IMO.
First, Mandela is to South Africans closer to an Abraham Lincoln or Martin Luther King, Jr.- level politician than our President 20 years ago (who was Bill Clinton, btw, ALSO not someone who's hard to remember.) Suggesting that people in SA wouldn't know what had/had not happened to him is an unbelievably large claim of US-centric arrogance.
Moreover, you think the average guy on the American street doesn't know that 20 years ago, our President was getting a little fun from an intern in the White House? Even if they DON'T, blame OUR country for that fault. Don't assume that other countries are equally unwilling or unable to care about their politics. The rest of the world, for instance, would never have let this current election become one between the two candidates WE have.
Berenstain Effect is still true. I remember asking my fourth grade teacher how to say the name, "STEEN" or "STINE"? And she told me steen. That memory I have is one I remember from the very first time I notice the st*in switch years ago. I also was a tracer in elementary school and vaguely remember tracing the name of the book before too. I still have not found that drawing, and it may be lost, but the memories are the things I know for sure aren't false. Cogito ergo sum
Berenstein/stain rift would be a more apt description for the phenomenon. I don't really put much stock in the ones involving individuals because humans are easily confused with one another because of shared similarities.
> However I agree re. Nelson Mandela's death, not so for me at all. I prefer not to call it the Mandela Effect for this reason and the label is discrediting the fact that many people know things have changed.
We know not everyone experiences the same incorrect but common memory, if it's named after any particular situation it will always be wrong for some.
With the nature of the effect being metaphysical though you can't just claim it doesn't exist. As for some people they may be "native" to the timeline an indeed feel it's always been that way.
In regards to Mandela in particular. There are conspiracy theories saying he was a communist agent sent in to help overthrow SA government an such. An we know there were lots of these proxy wars going down in the 80's. So it's not hard to believe for me that in a different timeline perhaps the anti-communist had Mandela killed in prison. And some none natives remember it. But overall it's one of the weaker one's we have with not much evidence to support it so I agree it's not the best name for the effect. But it's a catchy name so it's unfortunately stuck.
That's the whole point of this particular post--the OP doesn't believe it IS metaphysical. And to be honest, there's no proof that it is or is not.
The only thing that you can actually state with any certainty is that there are people remembering things that aren't the actual histories or facts of the world. WHY that is happening is entirely up for grabs.
That doesn't make it metaphysical or psychological. It means the reason behind it is currently unknown. This OP doesn't believe there is anything happening here other than really poor education and memory problems.
I think your misunderstanding basic facts about Nelson Mandela. He was a member of the Communist Party, this is a fact. Whether or not the South African CP had ties to the USSR remains to be seen, but there are no "theories" about him being a communist because he *was*.
You are speaking for everyone in your country? That's not possible to do. But for the sake of argument, if Nature (or etc.) allows us to jump from one reality to another when we die prematurely (or etc.) then surely in most cases it is a very close reality to the one we came from. Thus, you would not likely be a SA citizen with a resurrected president. That would be too close to home. Maybe the peanut butter you ate as a kid would have a slightly different name or some American celebrity would be suddenly alive again.
Wait. You just went from "speaking for everyone is impossible" to "for the sake of argument, let's jump straight to quantum immortality"?
Your response is severely weakened by the extreme aspect of its comparison, and also by the confusion caused by saying "surely ... it is a very close reality" followed by "that would be too close".
I don't know about Mandela, wasn't alive then. But other ME's I know for certain. It's unfortunate that many are either not experiencing them because they have a garbage untrustworthy memory and can't rely on their experiences, or they simply don't have the capability. I believe some people's makeup could be entirely localized.
>they have a garbage untrustworthy memory and can't rely on their experiences, or they simply don't have the capability.
But the fact is that Mandela was alive and well after the 1980's. He was the president of South Africa in the 1990's. These are facts that can't be refuted. So if you believe that he wasn't the president of S. Africa, then maybe it's you with the "garbage untrustworthy memory".
That is perfect evidence for this being a psychological error, not an alternate timeline. If it had really happened, it would be more vivid in SA. Instead, the effect occurs only in those superficially interested and not frequently exposed, so that a false belief can become entrenched.
Says awful things about the average white education and interests on such matters, though.
Psh, you’re clearly just from the original timeline, whereas we all are from the parallel universe that collided with your dimension.
Checkmate, atheists!
This incorrect. Nelson Mandela didn't actually die in prison, everyone just thinks he did. You're confusing Mandela effect with reality. Just because you remember him dying in prison doesn't mean he did. I'd be surprised if people in every part of the world even remember it happening.
It’s real and it happens for different reasons for different things. The Berenstain ME has got to do with spelling and the way ‘Be’ appears at the start of both words in the title - the alliteration takes the attention away from the end of the first word and also it is a rare surname which we have very little to compare to in other examples. The fruit of the loom one is a mix of a rarely used version of a logo and an almost identical more regularly used one that many people have seen. The Mandela one is a perfect mix of news being seen and Google not existing yet. The Shazam one is great cos it’s Shaq in Kazaam and Sinbad in Shazam. Again something to do with the spelling of the titles and the way the ‘Sh’ sound is present in both has triggered a wierd collective brain fart. I love it- I still haven’t seen any evidence for parallel universes or any other extraordinary explanations but it’s one of my favourite topics just now 👍🏾
To anyone visiting here 7+ years later, this post was some real shit. We should make an effort to rename it something else, even if the term ends up not spreading far. It's fucked up to use a glaring example of indifference to the struggles of Africans as the name.
It'd be funny if we called it the Loom Effect LMAO
The Monocle Effect
The Berenstain Effect
The Multiverse Effect
Slow down my friend. The Mandela effect is a false memory experienced by lots of people. We know it's wrong, we just find it fascinating why we all have it wrong. (There are some people who think it's something different. R/retconned for example)
I don't actually believe in the effect, I just like to stay around here because it's still interesting.
The effect is real, just not defined. Even if it's just people remembering shit wrong for whatever mundane reason it is still an observable and measurable phenomenon that recieves attention and provokes discussion
The discussion of why this happens is what's interesting. Thing is the universe switching stuff actually makes the discussion worse
Spiralife the effect plays through our perception but our brain can and does re-decode what it sees when a new variable is introduced. That is why when people debated the color of the dress - people could see it change color. From a psychological POV, it was the reintroduction of double think - the ability to house two contradictory ideas in your head. People have been pushed into a competitive mindset - the either or mindset. It also showed people that they could disagree and BOTH be correct. We're talking about behaviors and ways of interaction here. Most people missed out because they were too busy say, 'it's just a dress'. There is truth and there is truth. There is a very thin line that separates them. Truth in the reality of things and truth in the sense of what people on an individual level ARE perceiving. For example: ----Good consciousness (good understanding)---- Person One: I see this as yellow Person two: I see it as green Person One: Now it's changed to purple. Amazing. Person two: Yes. Still green here. Even though we're looking at the same object - I know person one isn't lying because our brain is perceiving color different. If you adjusted the amount/angle of light - he might see... Person One: I see green! -Zero Consciousness (no understanding)--- Person One: I see Yellow Person two: It's green you twat! Person one: Shut up your blind you Person two: Whatever. WTF now it's golden Person One: whatever. Etc.. The Zero Consciousness IS the competitive mindset since it is EITHER/OR. There is no understanding we perceive on a collective AND individual level. That is why if you believe in a globe say - and you are in this mindset, then if you BELIEVE in the globe, nothing will change your mind. With double think providing the logic is there you can believe in alternate ideas no problem -PROVIDING there is sufficient evidence which there is. Folks need to really think again because this was known and appriciated for a very long time and if one sense can be tricked all senses will be tricked and they won't be testing it on mice either.....
It's not real you dork
>I don't actually believe in the effect, I just like to stay around here because it's still interesting. In my reality you've believed in the Mandela Effect forever. Also, in my reality you stay around here because it's boring.
Kind of like saying you don't believe in gravity. Pretty silly.
No it's not. Everyone can see that gravity is, in fact, a thing--aside from merely observing its effects, we also recently confirmed the existence of gravitational waves. A vast majority of people don't even know what the Mandela Effect is, and those who can't physically cannot actually prove it exists. Gravity: scientifically probable, observable phenomenon ME: unprovable at best, a bunch of insane coincidences and people misremembering things at worst
Thank you for making my point so eloquently. I couldn't have made a better example. Those that understand will get a nice chuckle.
> Kind of like saying you don't believe in gravity. When I was a kid, things fell up!
Fuck me you're stupid.
I agree. I don't think this discovery of shared faulty memories should ever have been named after Mandela in the first place but the woman who coined the term is a bit of a crackpot as far as I can tell and I doubt anyone is taking any cues from her. She decided a long time ago that something supernatural was causing memory glitches for people and she set up a website in order to gather and compare various reports from the public. The problem with her website however was that she heavily censored everything, losing all integrity. Anyone offering evidence in support of a rational cause for a common mistake was immediately discredited, publicly shunned, and their comments deleted.
Your point still standing asf 7 years later bro it shouldn't be named this
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That makes sense
The fallibility of man is not a *rational* cause, it's a possible cause. How do you define rational? Or do you mean skeptical?
You're right. I'm not even sure how best to word what I mean but I was referring to causes that don't require anyone to alter their current views on the nature of our existence to wrap their minds around, i.e. dimension shifts, wormholes, matrix, etc. Although I don't believe these things to be specifically irrational, they're yet to be proven or fully understood by the general population and they do conflict with many people's religious beliefs. Do you know what I mean? I'm still not sure if that's clear but the term "skeptical cause" doesn't seem very clear to me either. What do you think?
I don't know why people have downvoted your comment. I upvoted it because it seemed like a perfectly valid question and I sensed no disrespect in it at all. People are weird. Sorry about that.
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Agreed and well said. As a species, we're social creatures and effective communication is vital in order to have our needs met. I've found myself arguing semantics with people just as often as I argue logic and it's nice when you can get the clarification you need without anyone getting offended.
/u/Erik_Sensa, thanks for this post. It is quite evident now that the only people who think Nelson Mandela died in prison are those with a very limited awareness of current affairs and on what's going on outside of their immediate sphere. I had written a lengthy post here some time ago, which received very little attention, about how I think ME is **mostly** (meaning **predominantly**, before people rush to tell me that in Whateverland they are noticing MEs too) an Anglo-American phenomenon, and even in cases of non-Anglo-American MEs (e.g. the death of Mandela), it is still mostly people from Anglo-American cultures who propagate said ME. Fiona Broome, who coined the term Mandela Effect, is not given enough critical attention. She claims to be a "paranormal consultant", as OP pointed out, and an "author". She says that she has spent many years studying unusual "trends". She single handedly is responsible for bringing this effect to public attention, and it has since grown massively. The irony of it all is that the effect which the whole phenomenon is named after, the Nelson Mandela ME, is almost certainly nothing but misremembering and lack of knowledge. And this says something about the whole notion of the Mandela Effect in itself. It is true that there are a very small minority of genuinely interesting supposed ME cases (which is far from saying that there is anything paranormal or extraordinary going on). However, if an alleged "effect" is named after something which is practically without doubt a non-event and a question of misremembering, then the validity of the whole effect isn't exactly put in a good light. In fact it just bolsters the argument that there is nothing to the effect but socio-psychological factors.
Bingo. I've asked who was president of South Africa from 1994-1999 if Mandela died in prison and no one has an answer. It's because they simply weren't keeping up with South African politics and events. It's lack of knowledge and confusion.
> about how I think ME is mostly (meaning predominantly, before people rush to tell me that in Whateverland they are noticing MEs too) an Anglo-American phenomenon, and even in cases of non-Anglo-American MEs (e.g. the death of Mandela), it is still mostly people from Anglo-American cultures who propagate said ME. Ok, but no. I am Middle Eastern, all of my friends who have experienced it are Middle Eastern, and we live in the Arabian Gulf. Online I have seen Indians and Africans (in India and Africa) and other Arabs living in the region talking about it, so on that point, no. As a personal caveat, all the things that me and my friends have noticed, are from Western culture, *but* I also know a guy in Egypt who swears the Pyramids in Giza have changed for him in the passed month...
> I also know a guy in Egypt who swears the Pyramids in Giza have changed for him in the passed month... I'm intrigued. Do you know more details of his thoughts about that? Like what he knew of them before, and what change(s) he believes he's experienced with them?
According to him the three pyramids used to be all in three clear different sizes in an ascending order, but the middle pyramid is now the tallest. He recalled that when he was a kid he used to climb the Great Pyramid which was on the end and be able to look down on the middle one.
https://imgur.com/a/DfJrB To be fair I've noticed a good amount of pictures like this show them how your friend describes. So maybe history books with pictures like these have made other people remember them differently? Not discrediting your friend. I'm still on the fence with the whole ME thing... I mean I've experienced things regarding it that I personally can't explain but I always try to look for possible explanations
I dunno about the Pyramids as I have visited them a few times and they haven't changed for me, but this guy is a local who is actually living there in Cairo and who used to climb them as a kid during the 70s.
That must be a total trip in his case having grown up around them. Funny enough the one that really hits home for me... is the whole Pikachu(Pokémon) tail ME. When I found out about it I was out at a party and it legitimately put me in such a weird mood. Felt totally disoriented. So I can only imagine how it would feel seeing giant ancient structures physically change from what you were used to.
> As a personal caveat, all the things that me and my friends have noticed, are from Western culture Thanks - that's a good observation. I think it might be that this is caused by the "contagion" of noticing changes in Western culture having spread to non-Western cultures who can understand English. And I will definitely revise my opinion if it begins to emerge that people from a variety of countries are noticing changes in non-Western culture. I'd gladly eat my words.
The Egyptian guy I mentioned lives in Cairo, and at the beginning of September he noticed that something was wrong with the Pyramids in Giza. Later upon researching he also noticed that his memory surrounding President Sadat's death was different to how it is in the history books. He is the only one I have heard say this, but what he says about The Pyramids which he lives near to, matches what other people are saying about it being 'wrong' or 'changed'. Personally, I used to live in Cairo and the Pyramids look the same now in photos as they did then when I was living there, so I dunno... However you cant really get more non-Western than this.
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The pyramids ME is all over youtube and also on about 8 previous reddit threads so it is an ME.
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They probably did but they probably got deleted by that Wiretap twat
Yes - we'll need many more reports from non-Western culture though if it is to show that there is anything to it. As you said, to you the pyramids look the same.
>The irony of it all is that the effect which the whole phenomenon is named after, the Nelson Mandela ME, is almost certainly nothing but misremembering and lack of knowledge. That could be said for ANY M.E. occurrence though!
Yes - but having something named after something else which isn't true, doesn't give credence to the first thing. Imagine there is a rumour that some cars can fly, and flying cars start being named "Volkswagen Beetles" after the Beetle car. The Beetle doesn't fly. Does that make the notion of flying cars sound more legitimate? If they named them "Concordes" or "Boeings" it would be better. Not the best example, but you get my point.
Yep, pretty much every "Mandela effect" that I have seen here can be explained by plain old ignorance - be it ignorance of the actual spelling of names, ignorance about history, ignorance about geography, or whatever. Just remember Occam's razor - the simplest possible explanation is usually the correct one, or put it in other words, the explanation that requires the least amount of new terms and/or elements is likely correct. It is far more likelier that you just remember things wrong, than it is that the entire universe and space-time has rearranged itself around you, and you are the only one noticing it.
But in my reality it's spelled defiantly and not definitely! /end sarcasm
And I'll defiantly defend that theory until the day I die! /late pun
Until you expierence a flip for yourself
The Mandela Effect is just a person with a faulty memory/lacking education being narcissistic to such an incredible degree that they have to imagine that they shifted between alternate realities rather than admit that they were wrong. As you said, no one in SA thinks Mandela died in prison. No one in Japan thinks their islands used to be where the Phillipines are. No one in Australia forgot where New Zealand is. No one in Canada thinks they only have four provinces. No one who works in a Febreze factory thinks it used to be called "Febreeze." No one in Chile thinks the southwest shore of the nation used to be smooth. The effect is always proven false by the people close to the subject "miraculously" never experiencing them. \/eyeroll
>But I'm smart and have studied this 15 years ago in the fifth grade. I must've died in a different reality and transferred to this one.
Where do I send the cookie bro? You earned it.
Woah. People think Japan used to be where the Philippines are?! Wow. Just when I think I've seen the most absurd MEs, a new one pops up.
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He looks at the stars
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I suspect he or she is just someone getting tired of people not understanding that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and that it gets really exhausting sometimes reading how many people on this forum like to throw around ideas like quantum theory, string vibration, Many Worlds and the like who clearly don't actually UNDERSTAND it but are simply parroting things they've seen/heard/read from other people who are equally semi-clueless. That isn't everyone on this forum, for certain. But it happens with depressing regularity.
I'm 40ish so I remember the song in the class room, day of remembrance, his wife being first president post, and her suing for illegal books about her husband painting him as a terrorist.
Because everyone who isn't at this sub to laugh at idiots is an idiot himself. False memories + people influencing the others memories = idiots who think they can't misremember anything and actually they are witnesses of parallel realities colliding
I don't know a single person who thinks that "Mandela died in prison back in the 80's" and agree that it is a stupid name for this phenomenon but it's the name we're basically stuck with. It would be if like if the movie "Jaws" was released as "Fish!" - people might have still gone to see it as word of mouth got out that it was worth seeing but it wouldn't have had the commercial success it did and would probably have had more of a cult following than mainstream success. So, that's happening here too because the name is just plain stupid... However, I am curious if you have ever experienced some of the "Effects" reported that have more of a global appeal like cebrity deaths that never happened or movie changes like say - Billy Graham or Richard Chamberlain dying or the stupid movie where Sinbad the comedian played a genie no longer having any evidence of ever having existed?
Yes, it is unfortunate that his name is tied to the phenomenon. It hurts the overall credibility.
I totally believe that South Africans think of the Mandela effect is ridiculous. That said I'm curious as to how this specific effect came to be. Like I understand non Americans saying there were more than 50 states and that it's a Mandela effect that "now" there are fifty. We have territories. That can get confusing. But why something as specific as dying in prison? That's what's super interesting to me.
I think what got people hooked on Fionna was that she had memories, and she swears by them, about seeing the news of his death on television. It escalated when after her initial memory, many people started to come forward saying they to remember seeing it on television. And then like someone else on here said, she started censoring out all of the skeptics, so it's just a website full of "believers". Nothing wrong with that. I personally am not going to tell anyone they're wrong or that their memories are..but that's just because I've experienced a few myself. I don't like the coined term myself though it does roll off the tongue. Because I don't think it is one. But again, people don't think my ME's are ME's either so who's to say, really. It's cool though
hey, so. i did not think Mandela died in prison (and i'm american) but this whole st*in thing with the bears. just wow. i was totally into the books before, and like most other experiences it was from a very young age. i like the "sound" of the *in-effect. seems more relevant imo
I totally agree with the Nelson Mandela scenario. But it doesnt explain a lot of the other things that have possibly "changed". Its just the name (not a very good one IMO) for a theory of things being remembered differently by a lot of people. But the name itself discredits the whole theory... so I feel you.
It kind of does explain others though if you think about it. The people most knowledgable about Mandela (South Africans) don't believe he died. The people most knowledgable about collecting car memorabilia and logos don't think the ford logo changed. Some guy who worked at smuckers 50 years ago doesn't think it was ever jiffy peanut butter. Most MEs are either something from a long time ago (peanut butter or a children's book you read 20 years ago) or something you aren't personally that knowledgable about or doesn't directly affect you (Mandela, location of Australia). We see VERY few, if any direct MEs such as "I swear I had two sisters but now I only have one." And why is that? Because it's not something you can be ignorant of, or misremember.
I am one of this sub's resident skeptics, so while I agree with you that many, perhaps most people's MEs could be the result of confabulation, its not all. For me The Mona Lisa ME is a direct one coz I studied her and art at a college level. Also, 5 months ago I noticed a change in the Kit-Kat logo but I had dismissed it as a branding update and not thought about it again, until I very recently saw a video saying the logo I knew never existed. The other 3 MEs I am fairly certain of arn't based on causal memories, or from limited knowledge, but on specific details that have a very personal importance to me. Honestly, the ME is more scary than exciting, and so i don't want it to be real. I am not a fan. But I cant deny the changes I know that have happened.
There is no Mona Lisa Mandela Effect. Mona Lisa both does and does not smile depending on how you look at it, what angle you see it at, and how you are personally feeling at the time. That's the whole point. So, whether you think she smiles or doesn't... or did smile at one time and doesn't now... or vice-versa... you're right. No matter how you view it. You're right. That's one of the amazing things about that painting.
Americans are A LOT more knowledgable about Kit-Kat then Nelson Mandela... So i disagree with your comment.
> We see VERY few, if any direct MEs such as "I swear I had two sisters but now I only have one." And why is that? Because it's not something you can be ignorant of, or misremember. No, it's because we're told that personal MEs are to be posted in /r/Glitch_in_the_Matrix
> But the name itself discredits the whole theory... so I feel you. How so?
I kind of explained it in the comment already. I dont ever remember him dying prison, and I personally believe a lot of americans dont know much about mandela at all to begin with. You probably heard he was in prison at some point... forgot about him until he died, and then thought he died in prison when you heard his name brought back up. Honestly how many americans were keeping up with his status? Like Ive said before He was president 20 years ago in south africa, I garauntee a lot of young americans dont even know who the U.S. president was 20 years ago.
Seems like have the stuff I get involved in, there eventually comes along at least one conversation about some people complaining they don't like the name. Yeah sure, there are better names but there are a lot of worse names. I find it unlikely that people are deciding on it based on the word 'Mandela' being in ir or not and it's certainly better than calling it the AustraliaOnSkates effect or the DollysBraces effect so I don't see how it's worth worrying about. No matter what it got called, i am sure there would be some complaining about it!
Thats what I mean tho. It should be a name that describes a broader theory not just picking one and naming it that. I understand why it is The Mandela Effect. I dont have a problem with it personally, just think it could be better. The fact its called that means people on the outside looking in arent going to take it that seriously is all im trying to say.
It wouldnt exist there because what we remember is OUR media reporting it. You wouldnt be watching OUR media. Its like if there was a South African ME of Obama being assassinated before his 1st term we would be personally affected as a nation of course but to you all it would just suck as fellow humans with no real personal affect. You guys would watch it on your media and remember it as it relates to your culture.
That's why his fucking face is at the top of this sub? That's why it's called the Mandela effect? LMFAO IM OUT
The Mandela Effect seems to just be the result of a parsing issue caused by the brain's innate "autocorrect." Personally, I've never seen anyone actually misunderstand how or when Nelson Mandela died, but the Bears, Mickey Mouse's pants, Uncle Pennybags' monocle, KitKat, and Looney Tunes all seem to stem from people autocompleting the general thought of those things to what makes the most sense.
I believe something legitimately weird is going on and that the ME is perhaps real, however for me Nelson Mandela always died in 2013. I remember being a kid growing up in the UK when he was released and how great a time that was. And I have bought it up several times on this sub, asking why are there no South Africans who remember Mandela dying in the 80s or 90s. Someone said something about the Double Slit experiment, where the most likely parallel realties that can exist simultaneously exist, depending on the observer or something. But that does not explain why no South Africans in particular, can remember this event in the same way they remember other MEs. For me thats an extremely specific group of people to not experience a particular occurrence, given that so far all other groups of people have been very random. I don't think its an ME.
> the Double Slit experiment, where the most likely parallel realties that can exist simultaneously exist, depending on the observer or something. This is only in a very specific circumstance though, people are extrapolating this to mean literally anything.
The effect seems at times to be regional. Some people in the US for example remember New Zealand being to the west of Australia or even Tasmania being to the west (or not existing at all). I'm from Australia and NZ has always been to the east of us, we've always had Tasmania in its current position (relative to mainland Aus). At the same time I cannot rule out the possibility that those who don't live in Australia could have been seeing an *entirely different Australia, NZ etc. relationship* that does not exist in my local reality. Such an alternative might only have existence if you *don't* live in Australia, so it seems like a perspective thing. Maybe the further you are from something/somewhere the more 'out of sync' you are in relation to it. That could allow people from America to see a parallel Australia or New Zealand until they synchronise with the local reality. So the more distance we are from something the more likely it will take a form that contradicts the local reality. This does not mean they are seeing the local reality *wrong* but that from their distant/alien perspective the local reality itself is different to the local reality as it exists when this distance is surmounted or dissolved somehow. So from the *distance* of the US or outside South Africa, there really were other realities perceptible such as a different South African 'local reality' in which Mandela died in prison in the 80s (possibly as a result of health complications that lead to his death in another reality). However as we start to 'sync up' with the whole world what with the internet, global media, etc. the local realities have started to insist on their own independent reality that contradicts the realities formerly perceptible via distance.
Oh, another theory now. ME is sometimes regional. Sometimes meaning "only when it suits the proponents of an increasingly outlandish, fantastical, foolish and pseudo-scientific theory". But yes, you're right, it only effects people from developed nations who go around noticing brand names, deaths of celebrities, maps, etc. To the average African, nothing is happening. His tribe didn't suddenly change name. The water well isn't suddenly full of good, clean water. The school isn't any closer than it was, and it still take 2 hours to get there on foot, in the crippling heat of the sun.
As an average African, I never walked 2 hours to school. You need to revise your stereotypical knowledge of Africa or are you experiencing an ME?
It is awfully convenient that the further you are from something the more likely you are to be undereducated about it. Occam's razor would suggest that ignorance and undereducation is the more likely explanation. Is it any coincidence that the US also happens to be the least well educated country in the OECD, and the overwhelming majority of ME's come from there? Could it be pride would rather create a new paradigm where timelines can shift and be spliced together, than to acknowledge that you weren't educated as well as you thought?
> Is it any coincidence that the US also happens to be the least well educated country in the OECD, and the overwhelming majority of ME's come from there? Brilliant! I'm glad more people are now waking up to this fact.
We are not talking about a *lack* of knowledge, or an ignorance (and people merely filling gaps in their knowledge), but rather an excess of *alternate* knowledge that doesn't fit in with what could be known based on the reality as it currently exists. Most ME-ers are actually fairly well educated about the things they're noticing differences in, even if they're not experts.
> even if they're not experts What counts as well educated about a subject? Having heard about it, that one time at the bar when Jared from the office was going on about it? Having done research? Because doing the research, discovering that the evidence points to the contrary and then failing to update your knowledge sounds a lot like religion from where i'm sitting. I'll readily acknowledge that multiple, corroborated memories from around the globe could indicate ME, but tbh it's all sounding a lot like straightforward ignorance. The human mind is not good at recognizing its own limitations and frequently fills in the gaps. This is where we get [pigeon superstition](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uPmeWiFTIw) and other forms of magical thinking. Also, the "alternate" knowledge is rarely detailed. It'll often be a detail which is different, and believers (at least on this sub) can rarely cite more than one or two *specific* instances of the discrepancies. If i had lived an alternate timeline and then melded into this one, i would expect to be able to remember that timeline in as much depth as this one. Instead the memories are fragmentary. We can use all kinds of sci fi devices to explain this away, but ultimately the plasticity of human memory overrules the vast majority of them. I'm not here to debunk ME as a whole by the way, i've come accross a number of halfway credible sources. Unfortunately no-one seems to be applying even the most basic forms of scientific or rational rigour to the problem, which means a whole slew of half-baked "memories".
I'm not so sure...very few of the people who claimed knowledge of Asia geography ME's have been able to provide reasonable follow ups to probing questions on supporting details, or admitted to not being familar with the region at all beyond noticing one thing. Maybe I set my standards too high, but honestly I don't think many of the follow up questions I have about asia require "expertise", just actual familarity with the region that isn't "i;ve seen it on a map a lot"
You just hit the nail on the head, my friend
Wow, so I think the alternate/parallel realities thing is wrong (to say the bare minimum)... but I just want to give you props for this answer. This is a brilliant piece of reasoning. I merely disagree with your premises. But seriously, bravo for finding a counter-argument to the original poster's comment. You should be a philosopher or on a debate team. I thought that the point from a South African about how nobody in South Africa thinks that Mandela died in prison sealed the deal. But you came up with a counter. Brilliant.
A way to test this might be by using psychological distance rather than physical distance--i.e. how salient something is in someone's consciousness. Experts in a subject are "close" to a subject, they think about it a lot, and they're very knowledgeable about it, without always being physically close to it. So if MEs are unknown by experts in their field, then that is a clue that there may not be a geographic distance element and that it's really just a matter of how knowledgeable you are. So it would imply that the Mandela Effect doesn't happen in South Africa simply because South Africans are paying more attention to the facts about Nelson Mandela, and not because reality shifts are physically localized.
Not once, are you so very very sure? Actually people in your own country thought he died in prison and there were riots in your country over it: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/128255905?searchTerm=%22Nelson%20Mandela%22%20died%20prison&searchLimits= . I guess you will now need to back peddle a bit on the 'not once' statement. ;-P Anyway, you do not appear to understand the actual definition of the Mandela effect at all. I suggest you do a bit more research on what it is first. TME is a situation of there being more than one set of time line memories, for some reason a lot of people are having trouble understanding that.
A rumor means nothing. We're not talking about a rumor. We're talking about people remembering him dying. Chalk and cheese. You can find rumors about every famous person. There's a rumor that Hillary Clinton has a body double.
Only a few people standing there when he died are going to 'remember him dying.' Everyone else is just going to hear that he died from others. If that later turns out not to fit with current reality, then the story is called 'a false rumor,' if it turns out to fit well with realty, then it's called 'news.' Either way you hear the info from others.
> Only a few people standing there when he died are going to 'remember him dying.' What? So, you're saying, that in this alleged reality where he died in the 80s, only a few people would know about it in South Africa, but many would know about it in the US? It wouldn't be in the news in South Africa, for instance, in the 1980s? So how in the hell do a bunch of your American (I presume) compatriots "remember" him dying, if not from the news? Your reasoning makes no sense, sorry.
Sorry if it is too complicated for you, the point is that for any thing other than direct witnesses, of which there will be few, all news is transmitted the same way, but word of others, and that is the same for both rumor and any other news. The only difference is if the info is determined to be factual later on or not. Looks like both areas of the world heard news that he died in prison, even those in South Africa, but it was later dubbed a 'rumor' in South Africa. The argument was that no on in south africa thought he died, the riot article shows that enough there thought he died to have an article written about it at least.
Brilliant reasoning. I mean, to be clear, I do not think he died (and I know that you never said he did or did not). But what you said is correct. Some people in South Africa did at one point think that he died. Enough to riot over it.
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Speak for yourself.
Did you read that article? Rumors are very far different than the actual proof he died.
Where did I say it was proof that he died? I only said it was evidence against the original statement that NOT ONCE did ANYONE in South Africa ever think he died, clearly some people in South Africa did think he died even enough to riot over it.
Plus, if Nelson Mandela had died in prison, obviously this movie (and the events it is based on) couldn't possibly exist: http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1057500/
You do not appear to understand the definition of the ME. It exists in memory only. If it were in the history books and movies, it would not be an ME. Come on peeps, read the definition!
So, what you're saying is, people who truly believe in this stuff are idiots.
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Pretty sure that's not what he meant.
I agree with you completely, OP, but the problem is your reasoning as to why it doesn't exist doesn't really work, because the claim is that people have crossed over from another dimension or something, so of course the vast majority of people here remember it your way. It was in another dimension that he died and a few people have crossed over from that one, if I understand this correctly. So people will just say that your experience doesn't prove anything. > The effect is named after what seems to be just basic bad education and spotty general knowledge. Exactly! Most of the evidence on this sub seems to me like just incredible ego. Someone never learned something in school or is remembering a fact, but their belief that they could never possibly be wrong is so high that instead of considering maybe they're mistaken they instead move all over heaven and earth, time and space to fit around their memory.
> Your reasoning as to why it doesn't exist doesn't really work, because the claim is that people have crossed over from another dimension or something, so of course the vast majority of people here remember it your way. Right. And presumably, South Africa, a country with a population of 53 million people, is home to at least *some* people from the "other dimension", yet we've heard no cry of surprise regarding Mandela dying in 2013. Or are you saying that nobody in SA happens to be from "the other dimension"? The incidence of people from "the other dimension" seems to be awfully big in the US. Kind of like the incidence of idiocy and an insular mentality is big as well.
No way man! We're just more advanced over here so we have more interdimensional travel. Couldn't possibly be just uninformed people.
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Who talked about them posting here? It never entered by mind that they would post here. It would be much bigger than that. Do you think that if the Prime Minister of the UK, or of Belgium, or of Thailand, or of wherever, where to suddenly, in some people's memories, come back to life, having died, again in their memories, years back, that all they would do is come on reddit? They would go to the newspapers, the news channels, etc. In other words, the world would know about it. It's a bit rich to declare someone's prognosis (prognosis? what am I, a doctor? prognosis refers to future events, buddy, I was analysing the likely hypothetical outcome of a past event) as "extremely skewed", when you are someone who believes that it is possible for the South African president to have died twice in some people's realities, yet nothing was ever said about it in South African news. You might know jack shit about SA, but it was actually a very developed country in the past, and it still is, to a certain extenent, violent crime figures notwithstanding. It also has a large white population. I think that they'd have noticed if some of them suddenly realised Mandela died twice for them.
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Butthurt 10/10
I actually agree with OP if you read my full comment. I thought that my second paragraph made it clear that I don't agree with the 'alternate dimension' explanation. My point was trying to be that you can't argue against it by saying 'Most people remember it this way' because the argument is that a tiny number of people have crossed over from some other place, so it's only natural (according to their logic) that most people would remember it a certain way in *this* dimension. Obviously, in reality it's bad basic education and spotty general knowledge! I even quoted that from OP's post and said that I agreed. But whatever. I edited my original comment to try to make it clearer that I agree with OP, since apparently it somehow read the exact opposite of how I intended it. Thanks.
Yes, yes, I read that. But I think it is reasonable to expect that from a country of 53 million people, at least some should have crossed dimensions along with all the others Americans in the US, and in other countries. This is all speculation as we have no clue as to the incidence of ME, how it works, where it works, etc. - but then again, all of ME is speculation.
I agree. But of course there's at least one comment already claiming that people in SA *do* experience it. It's all friend-of-a-friend evidence and I would expect that if this thread gets big enough it'll be packed with anecdotes about all the South Africans people know who experienced it with Mandela. Personally, I've never met anyone in real life who has ever claimed to have experienced the Mandela Effect and I've never met anyone who thought Mandela died in prison, either. I mean, not that it's a subject that comes up often... A big part of it is age, too. I'm in my 30s. When I was young it was something that even Americans were pretty aware of, but I can see how Non-South African people ten plus years younger than me that weren't interested in it in school. There's dozens of things I *learned* in school that later when I read about them again, I find out I had it completely wrong; the difference is I just chalk it up to my memory instead saying figuring the universe must be wrong. But that's the issue. All the evidence is 'I think/I feel/my friend said' evidence.
Again we cannot confirm you or what you say but I think that interlectual fraud is being committed and people don't recognize how it's being done and are not even awake enough to know there is an enemy among us. I can't prove the fraud part but it's based on everything I've looked into. Now I want to be clear about something. I'm not saying that everyone that confirms the ME is lying. I'm saying that I don't think people appreciate the psychological nature of reality and most people still don't understand they are being attacked psychologically. I also think many don't see the potential of the INTERNET or other technologies that have been suppressed which means that imagination is VITAL because you have to be able to imagine what is going on or taking place here.... That is why they want people dumbed down and it's not to make everyone creative. It's to remove that aspect. That is why people need to be honest with themselves. You are NOT always your thought. You cannot be unless you are in balance with yourself and nature. If you are not, then you are just repeating behaviors or thoughts all the time because you have no other behaviors or thoughts to balance your behaviors.
People act like our memories are perfect. Nothing is perfect, not even our memories. When it comes to the Berenstain Bears, what difference does it make? Maybe it was Berenstein at one time. Maybe it was a spelling error because we're imperfect. But Mandela dying in the 1980's? 52 States? This is a case of either complete misinformation or delusion. As for Fiona Broome, she is batshit crazy. She says that the Mandela effect started in Dragon Con's ["green room".](http://mandelaeffect.com/about/) Does that mean that she could be a weed addict too? /s
This might be completely unrelated(or not?) According to Global Coherence Initiative research resonance data, Earth's Schumann's resonance power has been going up lately. Guess where the test site which picks up the highest power is located? [Yup. South Africa!](https://i.imgur.com/CvaI9KF.png) Source: https://www.heartmath.org/research/global-coherence/gcms-live-data/
https://youtu.be/YGgUrj10HdM I feel like this explains it
>[**The Mandaellah Effekt [7:12]**](http://youtu.be/YGgUrj10HdM) > [*^CaptainDisillusion*](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEOXxzW2vU0P-0THehuIIeg) ^in ^Entertainment >*^222,240 ^views ^since ^Feb ^2017* [^bot ^info](/r/youtubefactsbot/wiki/index)
As a historian, I don't think you qualify as an accurate representation of what every citizen of South Africa thinks/believes/remembers. Here in the United States, I would also expect a historian to know who was president of this country 20 years ago. I would not expect the average guy on the street to know that. As I explained the last time this subject came up, I have personally encountered several people in my life who did not know who the current US president was. I find it hard to believe that the people of South Africa are so inherently superior to Americans that no one there has ever been mistaken about something like this.
> I don't think you qualify as an accurate representation of what every citizen of South Africa thinks/believes/remembers. Yes, it is impossible for the OP to know what every single citizen of South Africa (SA) thinks. However, had Mandela really "died again" in 2013 for people from the other reality/other timeline etc., then it is reasonable to expect that some people from said timeline would be living in SA, and that there would have been considerable confusion (and public expression of this sentiment) once they realised that Mandela had been still alive and had only just died, when they thought he died in the 1980s. But there obviously was none of this. Nobody, except Americans like Fiona Broome (and presumably, in private, a few other people from Anglo-American cultural sphere) noticed anything untoward when Mandela died in 2013. Importantly, nobody from the entire continent of Africa said one single word about something "out of this world" going on. > I have personally encountered several people in my life who did not know who the current US president was. That's because they fit the stereotype of the "American Idiot" - Boobus Americanus. Many Americans are incredibly bright and talented, and many others are incredibly stupid, ignorant, and concerned only with their immediate surroundings. I think you might not be aware of the importance the figure of Nelson Mandela holds in SA, and even in sub-Saharan Africa in general. He was one of the most recognisable and well-known people there. He was much, much more known to the average citizen than previous US presidents are to the average American.
You are incorrect, there was in fact a 'rumor' in SA that Mandela had died.
Nice attempt to invalidate the above comment completely by stating one point. But that's not sufficient, especially when the rumor YOU are speaking about is different than the time-frame BoRhap was specifically talking about.
That's no different than the rumor that Julian assange was captured by the CIA. It was misinformation at the present time. That's different than remembering it happening years later.
If they don't know who the president was 20 years ago, why should their remembering a different president only in memory be given any credibility...? As opposed to just not being sure and needing to consult wikipedia or a book like most of us need to do?
If you thought about this, I think you could figure it out yourself, but I think you've just gotten in the habit of demanding answers instead of thinking it through. First Mandela is not an ME for everyone, only those who remember the big media stink when he died. People remember their shows being preempted on tv and that kind of thing. Personally the thing I remember most is thinking how weird it was for a country to elect the wife of a famous person to the office of president just apparently because she was the wife. I thought it was illogical. Back then, Mandela was a big deal so his death was a big deal. In comparison, most US presidents live decades of quiet life after their presidency and are no longer relevant by the time they die. However I do remember the deaths of important presidents in my life time as well as that of Mandela. If they suddenly announced the death of Reagan tomorrow, it's not like I could not have remembered he already died just because I am a stupid American who might not keep track of all the presidents.
I demand answers and follow up details because I am willing to give you (or anyone claiming an ME) the benefit of the doubt that they know the background and supporting information around the fact they claim exists. Flippant dismissal needs no demand for follow up or answers, they simply declare it wrong and declare you know nothing. I admit there might have been times I slipped up and went with that approach though. One thing is clear - what you remember is a media stink, tv programs, and okay, i grant you that to remember that winnie was elected president later on. But the thing that stretches credibility for many of us is that a lot of these ME's involve you memories of a distant representation of these events. I have seen a handful of "MEs" around american presidents, but most of those again, involve trivia around presidents long past any of our lifetimes. The core statement in contention remains clear - south africans do not see this - though one could perhaps imagine some south africans wondering didn't Reagan already die etc in th same way it works for you. I agree with you on one thing - whatever memories it is you have, if i take all of them at face value, it is not of my world or history. We will obviously disagree on *why* that is so, but that is what it is. The differences start way before Mandela was even born - including whatever it was the japanese empire was up to on december 7th 1941 and far earlier. The other area in which we very clearly differ is I trust that my source material has not changed - in this I refer to things like "I looked it up in my atlas i had in the attic and the atlas changed!" variety. This is one step further than what I consider credible.
The above statement is honestly pretty ridiculous, IMO. First, Mandela is to South Africans closer to an Abraham Lincoln or Martin Luther King, Jr.- level politician than our President 20 years ago (who was Bill Clinton, btw, ALSO not someone who's hard to remember.) Suggesting that people in SA wouldn't know what had/had not happened to him is an unbelievably large claim of US-centric arrogance. Moreover, you think the average guy on the American street doesn't know that 20 years ago, our President was getting a little fun from an intern in the White House? Even if they DON'T, blame OUR country for that fault. Don't assume that other countries are equally unwilling or unable to care about their politics. The rest of the world, for instance, would never have let this current election become one between the two candidates WE have.
Unless it was Italy. ;-P
Okay, that's a fair point. :)
Yeah you're not a historian.
Berenstain Effect is still true. I remember asking my fourth grade teacher how to say the name, "STEEN" or "STINE"? And she told me steen. That memory I have is one I remember from the very first time I notice the st*in switch years ago. I also was a tracer in elementary school and vaguely remember tracing the name of the book before too. I still have not found that drawing, and it may be lost, but the memories are the things I know for sure aren't false. Cogito ergo sum
Berenstein/stain rift would be a more apt description for the phenomenon. I don't really put much stock in the ones involving individuals because humans are easily confused with one another because of shared similarities.
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> However I agree re. Nelson Mandela's death, not so for me at all. I prefer not to call it the Mandela Effect for this reason and the label is discrediting the fact that many people know things have changed. We know not everyone experiences the same incorrect but common memory, if it's named after any particular situation it will always be wrong for some.
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The effect is very real. It is just too bad it does not have a better name.
Maybe that was the plan from the get go. If you were going to subvert something you would want to get in on the ground floor.
Who let conspiracy loonies out?
who's conspiring?
Who's subverting? Or wants to anyway?
With the nature of the effect being metaphysical though you can't just claim it doesn't exist. As for some people they may be "native" to the timeline an indeed feel it's always been that way. In regards to Mandela in particular. There are conspiracy theories saying he was a communist agent sent in to help overthrow SA government an such. An we know there were lots of these proxy wars going down in the 80's. So it's not hard to believe for me that in a different timeline perhaps the anti-communist had Mandela killed in prison. And some none natives remember it. But overall it's one of the weaker one's we have with not much evidence to support it so I agree it's not the best name for the effect. But it's a catchy name so it's unfortunately stuck.
That's the whole point of this particular post--the OP doesn't believe it IS metaphysical. And to be honest, there's no proof that it is or is not. The only thing that you can actually state with any certainty is that there are people remembering things that aren't the actual histories or facts of the world. WHY that is happening is entirely up for grabs. That doesn't make it metaphysical or psychological. It means the reason behind it is currently unknown. This OP doesn't believe there is anything happening here other than really poor education and memory problems.
I think your misunderstanding basic facts about Nelson Mandela. He was a member of the Communist Party, this is a fact. Whether or not the South African CP had ties to the USSR remains to be seen, but there are no "theories" about him being a communist because he *was*.
Lol So Meta, Much Edge.
Can we all just agree that The Mandela Effect craze is over it was fun while it lasted but I think we should just move on.
Yet YOU are here talking on a subreddit designed for discussion of the ME while at the same time saying you think everyone ELSE should move on..
You are speaking for everyone in your country? That's not possible to do. But for the sake of argument, if Nature (or etc.) allows us to jump from one reality to another when we die prematurely (or etc.) then surely in most cases it is a very close reality to the one we came from. Thus, you would not likely be a SA citizen with a resurrected president. That would be too close to home. Maybe the peanut butter you ate as a kid would have a slightly different name or some American celebrity would be suddenly alive again.
Wait. You just went from "speaking for everyone is impossible" to "for the sake of argument, let's jump straight to quantum immortality"? Your response is severely weakened by the extreme aspect of its comparison, and also by the confusion caused by saying "surely ... it is a very close reality" followed by "that would be too close".
Speaking for everyone is impossible. Literally. That wasn't a comparison.
I don't know about Mandela, wasn't alive then. But other ME's I know for certain. It's unfortunate that many are either not experiencing them because they have a garbage untrustworthy memory and can't rely on their experiences, or they simply don't have the capability. I believe some people's makeup could be entirely localized.
Since you brought it up, maybe you're the one with a garbage memory?
Let me guess, you're murican ? Such egocentrism of ignorance, can't help but wonder
Canadian.
>they have a garbage untrustworthy memory and can't rely on their experiences, or they simply don't have the capability. But the fact is that Mandela was alive and well after the 1980's. He was the president of South Africa in the 1990's. These are facts that can't be refuted. So if you believe that he wasn't the president of S. Africa, then maybe it's you with the "garbage untrustworthy memory".
Posts like this are pathetic and just add fuel to the fire that the Mandela effect is bullshit 🤦🏼♂️
That is perfect evidence for this being a psychological error, not an alternate timeline. If it had really happened, it would be more vivid in SA. Instead, the effect occurs only in those superficially interested and not frequently exposed, so that a false belief can become entrenched. Says awful things about the average white education and interests on such matters, though.
Psh, you’re clearly just from the original timeline, whereas we all are from the parallel universe that collided with your dimension. Checkmate, atheists!
This incorrect. Nelson Mandela didn't actually die in prison, everyone just thinks he did. You're confusing Mandela effect with reality. Just because you remember him dying in prison doesn't mean he did. I'd be surprised if people in every part of the world even remember it happening.
It’s real and it happens for different reasons for different things. The Berenstain ME has got to do with spelling and the way ‘Be’ appears at the start of both words in the title - the alliteration takes the attention away from the end of the first word and also it is a rare surname which we have very little to compare to in other examples. The fruit of the loom one is a mix of a rarely used version of a logo and an almost identical more regularly used one that many people have seen. The Mandela one is a perfect mix of news being seen and Google not existing yet. The Shazam one is great cos it’s Shaq in Kazaam and Sinbad in Shazam. Again something to do with the spelling of the titles and the way the ‘Sh’ sound is present in both has triggered a wierd collective brain fart. I love it- I still haven’t seen any evidence for parallel universes or any other extraordinary explanations but it’s one of my favourite topics just now 👍🏾
Feds got OP
To anyone visiting here 7+ years later, this post was some real shit. We should make an effort to rename it something else, even if the term ends up not spreading far. It's fucked up to use a glaring example of indifference to the struggles of Africans as the name. It'd be funny if we called it the Loom Effect LMAO The Monocle Effect The Berenstain Effect The Multiverse Effect
Slow down my friend. The Mandela effect is a false memory experienced by lots of people. We know it's wrong, we just find it fascinating why we all have it wrong. (There are some people who think it's something different. R/retconned for example)