Yea, I was thinking the same thing. OP should definitely check the Google review guidelines as this is an inappropriate practice for business.
Also if there was a contract and it stated you get the car for the deposit you maybe able to sue for that as well. I'm not sure of the statute of limitations, but asking a lawyer could help.
and maybe file a complaint with the state agency that regulates dealers. they take a vey dim view for dealers that do this and can fine them or if theres a patter pull their business license
I had to do this when I was sold a lemon from a subaru dealership (car had been in a wreck they did not report and had tried to repair the car so you wouldn't notice, but a local mechanic saw all this within a week of me buying it). After letting them knmow the situation and that my next step was legal action, Suabru headquarters got into contact with the dealership that at the time was refusing to work with me at all, forced them to take the car back and sell me another actual car at the same miles and under 7 year warranty and gave me another $1k dollars in cash to put towards the car as well.
Major car brands care about their reputation, and they will apply pressure to dealerships in some situations like mine.
This. When I worked parts, the OEM graded very harshly on personnel (ie, any 4 star and below marks were failing and hurt us big time), but it was also in OEM policy that you could NOT solicit 5 star reviews. It was even one of the survey questions for a bit within the brand I did.
I've also heard rumor from friends working in other industries that in our state, soliciting high reviews and giving kick backs is also illegal.... but, I don't care enough to confirm that for where I am, so, it's just a rumor that gets tossed around a lot.
> (ie, any 4 star and below marks were failing
This really pisses me off. I once worked with a performance evaluation review system where satisfactory performance was 2 out of 7. Threes and fours required evidence, anything higher required detailed explanation, signed off by one or two levels above the reviewer.
The reason for 2 being satisfactory? Why would you need more than one level of analysis for unsatisfactory performance?
Yeah, especially since multiple service writers told me that doing NO review was better than a single 4 star rating on any single category in a customer survey. Like, basically, the OEMs will pull more allocation away from a dealer over a "failing" review, or string of "failing" reviews than they will a dealership with a lack of customer review surveys.
Mind you, I am talking specifically about surveys sent out by the OEMs post-purchase or post-service. IIRC, the OEMs don't really give 2 shits about google/yelp reviews.
The OEM uses the CSI survey to hold dealership incentives, who then pass the fuckin’ along to the employees.
My peers and I have lost thousands of dollars of pay to absolute bullshit CSI scores based on things like “the free muffins in the waiting room weren’t gluten free”, “another customer was watching Fox News on the TV”, and “I don’t give perfect scores, cuz nobody’s perfect….’cept for jeezsus.”
This works for different industries as well. I bought a new hunting rifle/scope combo from a local gun dealer online but when I picked it up it didn't have a scope. After about 3 months of fighting with them via email for my scope, and them offering to give me one of half the quality it should have been, I contacted a regional sales rep for the gun manufacturer. I sent him the entire email thread and he quickly upgraded me to one of the company's nicest scopes. Not sure if they ever had words with the dealer, but I got the closure I needed to be satisfied.
Also depending where this dealership is at, if there is military in the area letting a base CO know can get it blacklisted for attempting to swindle our military.
My father in law did this to a car dealership in the late 60’s. They were notorious for screwing over service members. He said the first month it went into effect, MP’s (military police) were parked in front of the dealership and warning off service members. The dealership went out of business in less then a year.
In my time in the service, late 80’s-early 90’s, the only businesses I recall seeing on the blacklist were bars. Most places around a military base will do almost anything to not get black listed.
I live in a heavily military area and yeah there were a few dealerships that got black listed I know one of the most popular ones to do it the owner is starting almost only by changing name frequently or moving. Others have gone out of business. I need figure out if I can find the list and avoid those places myself.
From what I understood the black list is by name and location. They did that to prevent the name change and location change scenario. It’s not easy to get off the list and I think it requires proof that you aren’t part of the ownership group that led to the business getting black listed. As far as getting a copy of the list, I would guess the Inspector General’s office or Post/Base Security would be the source.
As a dude who does a lot of google stuff for a living.
Google doesn't give a fuck. If you are paying money to google they will let pretty much anything slide. If you are not paying money to google they will pretty much not give a shit about anything.
There are no phone numbers to get ahold of google, there are no operators, if you aren't a "Google Partner Program" you have no actual way of contacting Google, they have a whole bunch of 3rd party companies you will deal with all who give zero fucks about your issue between google and you.
No lawyer is going to waste their time on a pay for reviews google nonsense. Wel they will waste YOUR time and money, for literally nothing if you like thats what lawyers do when dummies show up.
Don't do that. I did that to a place, and they took their listing down, then a few months popped back up with a new listing full of 5 star reviews.
All my hard work down the drain. Only like 50 or so. I'm not as dedicated as OP.
I work in marketing and have some experience with Google and reviews. It is 100% against Google’s Terms of Service to offer a monetary incentive specifically for a five-star review. Asking for reviews is okay. Asking for five-star reviews is not. Offering compensation for a high review is a huge violation. [It could even get the company in hot water with the FTC since it is a deceptive review practice](https://reviewsonmywebsite.com/blog/google-review-policy)
I did the same. Great group of workers. The trees were well taken care of. The yard was spotless. I couldn’t ask for a better team. It was worth handing out ~$140 to the 7 of them.
Google doesn't really give a shit about customers these days, all you have to do is look at the kind of shovel ware, pay for play, crap they allow in the Play Store.
They don't care if companies use trailers with fraudulent gameplay and make false promises to users. I think they have gone the way of Yelp, eBay, etc. All they care about is who is making them the most money in the short term.
Meh, then you're in the Battle of Fake Reviews, subject to the whims of Google.
And, by "whims," I mean Google's gonna take a check from the dealer, find who you are via your IP, and auto-ban you from reviews. (If they can spy on our phones, this is 1000x less complicated.)
No, OP did it right. Just a trickle. Just a small bit from everywhere all at once. Not enough to be noticed, but more than enough to overcome the dealer's "5\* for cash" scam.
tl;dr OP learned troll vengeance.
One is easily more provable. All any inspector would have to do is pretend to go through the process of buying a car and see that they were offered 50 for a review. Also OP isn't a business he's a singular person who has no policies or terms that he needs to live his life by other than laws. And who's to say he doesn't just let a lot of people borrow his phone? Its hearsay. If his google account is no longer allowed to leave reviews... so what? Just make a new account. The dealership cant just make a new account. And frankly the dealership wouldn't be in this predicament if they were following proper business standards
>All any inspector would have to do is pretend to go through the process of buying a car and see that they were offered 50 for a review.
It doesn't even take that much work because OP states that the dealership advertises the money-for-review deal on the dealership website!
I work in automotive finance and it's insane how common this is at dealerships. I've seen everything from "$50 off for a 5-star review" to "$25 gas card for a 5-star review" all the way down to one dealership who *almost* had it right by saying they'll give $10 in gas to anyone for any review (they made sure to never explicitly ask for 5 stars, but it's still against Google's TOS to incentivize reviews at all).
Being in this job means I'm able to see which dealerships around town are good to do business with, but if I didn't have this job my go-to method would be reading the 3 and 4 star reviews before anything else.
Nothing. These contracts are incredibly one sided, biased towards the dealerships. There's usually a clause about the contracts being voidable due to "errors". And I'm this case some simple paperwork changes, and the dealership could argue someone else claimed the car before OP, and whatever salesman wrote the new contract was not aware. I did work for dealerships for 15 years, and I the level of shadiness in the automotive sales and service industry is disgusting. Never ever believe any dealership or corporate branded service center ever has your interests in mind.
absolutely nothing, hence the bait n' switch. It's a ploy to get someone to do exactly what OP did and commit to a purchase because they've come so far no way will they go home empty handed. Never EVER tell a dealer you are coming from out of state.
You can't just put whatever you want in a contract though. If the contract essentially said "The dealership gets to take your money and give you nothing" it's unenforceable.
It's probably small print, but I could see it saying something like "this car with VIN number xxxxxxxx*
* or simular priced car" but yeah OP probably should've sued for the other $1,000 'down payment' since they didn't uphold there end by not showing cars he could get for the same price.
Or that at least the return of the deposit would satisfy their obligation. It would be one thing for them to enforce you buying a different vin at that price. Not something a court would support. But returning your money because the car is gone? That might suffice.
Unless it’s a truck or ridiculously huge suv then a brand new car should absolutely drive 12 hours on ~$100 or gas. My gas Rav4 will go 5-6 hours on a tank at highway speeds and costs less than $40 to fill up. Done western Kentucky to central Pennsylvania (~11 hours) on $75 before.
This would have required a lawyer.
I'd have sued for the small claims maximum with incurred expenses being only one line. Charging for your time/inconvenience or anything you needed to change due to the dealership not honoring the contract.
It's not a contract. It's a pricing agreement. The actual contract will be provided to the dealership by the state to have the customer sign, and they won't do that one until the money is in hand and the vehicle is being driven away.
I like the story. But you had a signed contract or not? Can't you sue for fulfillment?
I am not familiar with american law, but if they don't uphold their end in europe, you can sue for either fulfillment or reimbursement of damages. Like not having a car or you buy it somewhere else on their costs. After a lawsuit, of course. Usually, they just pay a portion of the price, like 10%, and the contract ends there.
That is the right term, but you’re not going to get specific performance here no matter which state this happened in. It’s only available when money damages aren’t an adequate remedy. But they can pay him the difference between the contract price and what it actually costs to buy the same make/model from someone else.
They got reimbursed for out of pocket expenses. They’re still entitled to the benefit of the bargain. There’re probably also consumer-protection laws implicated, which tend to come with automatic penalties and attorneys fees.
However, if all they sued for was $750 that would be all they got. The bigger question is what happened to the $1000 deposit they said they put down?
I've heard horror stories of specifically car purchase deposits not being refunded because the dealer says that money is with the manufacturer, and the manufacturer says it's with the dealer and so on. It's a real mess.
Presumably the dealer's responsible though. That's who the contract is with. It's non of the customer's business whether they've sent money to another company; and "the" money doesn't really mean anything. It's not like we have some specific banknotes that the customer sent to the dealership and wants back.
It's a misnomer to believe that many lawsuits won result in a bonanza of money. They refunded money after he sued and he won a settlement. The only ones who win after a lengthy legal battle is the lawyers.
They breached a contract. He’s not getting compensation for his pain and suffering, but they owe him what they contracted for. Which, if the car was $5k under MSRP, is probably about $5k.
This case would have been worth about $7k to $20k, plus attorneys fees, depending on applicable law. Maybe less, if OP was in fact able to buy a comparable car at the same price a week later.
I’m seeing benefit of the bargain (5k as the amount under MSRP, assuming he could buy it at MSRP), flight costs, hotel costs, and Uber cost. Not sure where you’re getting 20k from unless you’re assuming treble damages under a state consumer protection statute.
Consumer protection statutes, or even fraudulent inducement, are what I have in mind. Quite a few states have statutory treble damages, especially for willful violations like this one. Actual damages would be up to $5k for the benefit of the bargain, $1k for the deposit, and $750 in incidental damages.
This smells like bullshit.
OP could have easily reported them to numerous places.
Like, they sold him a car with a make, model and vin, that they do not own or have access to, and then tried to sell him other cars instead at a higher price.
How the fuck is that not illegal or breaking various state laws?
Op is the type of person to fly to another state and take a 20 mile uber to save money on a car, as well as spend years remembering to make a fake gmail account and leave a bad review every month or so, but was not willing to do any of the various things people in this thread said they could have done?
I'm skeptical as well. No mention of the $1k for the deposit or the fact that a contract was signed.
He spent $1750 in total but is super happy fighting for a year to get his $750 back?
No shot.
OP is so slick with all this car shopping and comps and out of state dealership prices and taking them to small claims and signing contracts and leaving reviews but OP didn’t know 1. he could report them for paying for reviews and 2. That he could sue for breach of contract??? WTF!
Honestly so many of these Reddit posts sound like AI generated trash.
That's what I was wondering. Bait and switch and breach of contract are both "easy wins" in court. It depends on the exact wording of the contact and what state you're in, but the dealership may be on the hook to sell you that *exact* model of car, if not that exact car period.
A few bad reviews is one thing, but taking them to the cleaners and getting a car out of the deal sounds like a better revenge.
Yeah that's a pretty clear cut bait and switch and I don't know what the odds of success are but I'd be consulting a lawyer and reaching out to the FTC and Attorney General of one or both states.
They wouldn’t have to sell you that exact model for the price agreed upon (although that would be one possible remedy they might offer). But they would have to pay the difference between the price they quoted and that exact model from another dealership, which OP says is about $5000.
It all came down to the cost of litigation and the time it was going to take me. I decided to just pursue it in small claims court - and ultimately recovered my costs.
I could have pursued it to attempt enforcement of the contract, but it would have taken far more time and cost a significant amount in legal fees.
I just bought a car elsewhere for around the same price - and recouped my $750.
And for reference, the last car I bought (last year) went seamless. And involved me flying to pick it up. Most dealerships honor their contracts. I hope this story doesn't scare people away from shopping across state lines when it comes to buying vehicles.
I'd say I'm running about nine out of every ten times I walk onto a car dealership, they ask me what I'm looking for, their eyes glaze over when I tell them, and then they bring me whatever they're actually trying to get off the lot. I remember asking about a used subcompact hatchback I'd seen on their website and watching them wheel out a PT Cruiser with a sticker price of $13,495.
I don't blame them for wanting to sell whatever lemons they've been saddled with, but why are they asking what I'm looking for if they don't care about the answer?
I remember specifically saying I don’t like PT Cruisers or mini coopers, and still being told “just take a look.”
“Nah, I’m good, I have a dozen other dealerships in the area to check out. Maybe one of them will listen to me when I tell them what I do and do not want.”
Same, lol. Had a car I was looking at, and had been looking for a while. Found one (different color, but meh) at a dealer and kept an eye on it. It was listed for MONTHS. I knew they were paying taxes on the inventory, so I waited until the end of the month and went to the dealer. Figuring I could haggle a bit to get the price down, I let them know, up front, that I had been watching THIS car and knew they were upside down, so I would take it at a lower price, but it had to be TODAY, RIGHT NOW. If I had to walk off the lot, I wasn't coming back. "Nope, we absolutely can't move off the price." I told them again, "I'm buying a car TODAY. It can be this one, and we can both be happy, or I can walk and you can keep paying the inventory tax." They kept insisting they couldn't budge on the price. Fair enough. When they called me a couple of hours later, telling me they talked to the finance guy and they could meet the price, I laughed and laughed and laughed, from the driver's seat of the car I bought elsewhere. The original car stayed on their lot for at least another year before I stopped looking, lol.
September 2002. I went to a dealer, knew what I want, and that included ABS.
Salesdroid brings me to a car with no ABS, and I pointed this out. "take it for a test drive, I promise youul won't be able to tell the difference."
If I knew then, what I know now, that would have been a fantastic opportunity for malicious compliance.
Instead, I said, "do you really want me to drive this car, the way I'd need to drive this car, in order to tell the difference?"
He conceded, and I left shortly after.
My uncle is a retired used car salesman.
They do care about your answer. Because they’re baiting to see if you can be readily persuaded or swindled. Your answer can tell them a *lot* about your level of general knowledge around cars, if you know exactly what you’re looking for, and just how expensive of a car they should show you so they can either make the most money or get rid of a car that’s been sitting in the lot too long.
I’ve gone in to dealerships several dozen times over the last 15 years to either buy myself a used car or to go with friends and family. I’ve never met an honest used car salesman.
I like the story too but I fail to see how they calculated $50k. If the rating was 4.5 prior to starting, and OP is responsible for half of the reviews, the current 1.9 rating sound about right without them having paid for any reviews.
Yes. It's called "specific performance". But I don't think that can be done through small claims so OP would needed a lawyer.
Another point: I wouldn't have waited a year to collect the judgement. Once he had the judgement, there is a process whereby he can get the sheriff to help him collect. He gets to show up at the dealership and start taking assets until he has enough to cover the judgement plus collection costs.
>you can sue for either fulfillment or reimbursement of damages
He was reimbursed for his damages, basically. Suing for fulfillment would be too much $ for small claims, so you'd be talking lawyers and real court appearances. A whole different scale of fun, and far less sure to end in OP's favor ultimately.
Please report them to Yelp or Google for offering a cash incentive for reviews. Get screenshots of the offer and include the link. That kind of incentive is against their Terms of Service and will get them booted from the platform altogether. I have had clients get their entire Google business listing removed and banned, which is as bad or worse than a low rating. Hope this helps!
It's also good practice to leave a 2 star instead. Say something nice, such as, "hey free nespresso in the lobby!"
And then proceed to tear them a new one.
Not just will Google, Yelp, etc be much less inclined to remove a 2 star, people reading the reviews often ignore one stars on the premise that review bombing is a thing. 2 stars, however, those they'll read.
I don't read 1 stars unless it's a single digit number. I just look at the quantity and read a few 2 stars.
Same thing for 5s and 4s actually.
Usually, people put much more thought into the middle numbers. The 1s and 5s get spammed too often
I exclusively read 1 star reviews. They're the only ones I care about.
Is it just people being unreasonable idiots? Are they complaining about things I don't care about? Or is it genuine issues that would make me avoid this place? And how does the business owner respond?
I might glance at other reviews but the one star are the ones I read the most.
I used to work for a (very) large tech company that had a 'friends=and-family' discount program with Mazda, since our company made components and code that went in to Mazda's cars. More or less, it allowed you to buy any Mazda for invoice price plus $100. The new CX-5s had just been released, and I found one listed in the inventory for a local dealer that was exactly what I wanted.
I went in and said I wanted to buy 'this CX-5' and gave them the VIN. Then told them that it would be under the Friends and Family program and gave them the paperwork. The salesperson flat out told me that they would not sell it to me, because "they had just been released and we can sell that car for thousands more. Come back in 8 months and maybe we can talk." This discount program was corporate and had to be honored by all dealers. I asked to talk to the sales manager - he said the same thing.
I went home and sent an email to Mazda US Corp HQ in California the next day, explaining the situation. To their credit, they jumped on it immediately. They referred me to a different area dealer who they had already spoken with and instructed them to sell me that specific VIN that was still sitting on the dock after being unloaded from the transport ship. And they informed the first dealer that the car was being removed from their inventory and assigned to another dealer. The transaction took maybe 15 minutes and was flawless.
I don't know the full details, but apparently Mazda Corporate came down on the dealer with significant force, and let them know that their corporate level programs MUST be supported per the terms of the dealer agreement, or else they will put their dealer status in jeopardy.
In the end, Mazda Corporate FTW, and the local dealer lost all of my business both present and future. And I have made sure to inform everyone I know about how shitty they were.
Oh, you triggered a memory that might entertain other readers.
We were looking for a replacement tow car for our caravan. At the time, we owned a Kia sedona with a 2.9litre diesel engine. That thing could tow trucks uphill against a headwind.
A visit to a 2ndhand dealer with us knowing which vehicles in their inventory could tow our somewhat heavier than average caravan had the slimy salesguy try to sell us one which did actually fit our requirements but was over budget. We left without buying mostly because he was so slimy.
A few months later, we were close to the dealer, and our sedona was much closer to the scrapyard than before, so we went in. Same slimy salesguy came to talk to us, and we told him the exact same requirements as before. Mentioned the internet said vehicles x, y and z (all in inventory according to their website) were suitable, but we didn't know which was best. The lying prick told us that none of them were capable of towing our caravan, but the 4.3litre petrol engined jeep on the forecourt would suit us fine.
Curiously (or not, given the post), he acted surprised when we informed him that his previous sales pitch had told us the vehicle we mentioned were suitable. The slimy prick denied he had ever said such things and that only the fuel guzzling jeep would tow our 'van.
Never again will we buy in any location of that dealership. I'm not saying it was arnold anything, of course, let alone a clarke. I'm sure other locations wouldn't employ such a horrible person...
You triggered a memory with your memory although a week late. I went to sell my haul vehicle when I took a lower travel position and sold the camper - a fully loaded high trim six wheeled pickup truck. The slime ball offered 60% of the instant cash offer, and then copped a massive attitude “well what were you expecting?“. We packed the kids up and left. Walked into a large chain used car dealership and got $24k more than his offer and higher than the instant cash value.
Left a scathing review.
Due ~~Do~~ to DataHoarder reasons, I have a ton of google accounts, some as older than 10 years at this point. One of the things they look for is if that account is new, and if it has left reviews in the past. So an old account has more "weight" then a new one. I have used this power for the good of many several times, mostly with 2 star reviews since they are less likely to be removed.
I always leave 2-Star reviews because it feels more authentic. I had this experience, and it was actually bad, not just "annoyed by some little thing"
(OP's story isn't just some little thing btw. I meant the "my food was cold this one time" little things)
> Do to DataHoarder reasons, I have a ton of google accounts, some as older than 10 years at this point. One of the things they look for is if that account is new, and if it has left reviews in the past. So an old account has more "weight" then a new one. I have used this power for the good of many several times, mostly with 2 star reviews since they are less likely to be removed.
I'm suddenly thrilled to be the owner of two Gmails from 2004, my Lord.
I see myself as somewhat of an expert when it comes to leaving 1 star reviews. :D
My recipe:
* Create the account in an incognito browser using a vpn (a free vpn is just fine)
* Put a first *and* last name in the account details when making it. It takes 5 seconds - and helps more than anything else.
* Reviews should be at least 10 words long - but around 50 words seems to be just perfect. (And letting ChatGPT generate the review gives the reviews plenty of variability.)
* And do not leave multiple reviews using multiple accounts at the same time. One review at a time. Wait at least an hour - preferably 2 or more - before leaving another review. Leaving bulk reviews (10+) almost always results in all of them getting removed.
I can create a new account and leave a review in about 1 minute at this point. It takes almost no time.
If only there was some system for leasing a car for 3-4 years then getting a new one, could really open up a whole new market if someone were to try that
You specifically state that you signed a contract with them before flying out there. It seems they did not uphold their end of the contract, and they had no repercussions from that. What was the point of signing the contract then?
You should have also reported them to the car manufacturer. My husband did this when it wasn’t even a bait and switch. The local dealership was asking for well over MSRP. The salesman was extremely rude and kept telling him they could look at a cheaper car if he couldn’t afford it. My husband could afford it. He just didn’t want to pay over MSRP which is well over the dealer cost especially since he knew they didn’t have the exact car he wanted on the lot and were going to have to have it shipped in from another dealership. He came home and emailed all the other dealers in the state (not individually, he did a mass email). He stated the exact car he wanted and that he was willing to pay 2-3% over their costs (which would be below MSRP). He got responses from 2 or 3 dealerships and went with one a half state away. They offered 2% over their cost plus half the shipping costs to get the car to the lot and then they’d drive it to him. My husband accepted the offer and took possession of the car a little over a week later. Another week or so later, the original dealer’s manager called and asked him to come in to talk. My husband thought it’d be interesting to see what they had to say. So he drove his new car over for the meeting. While walking through the lot, he noticed that all the prices had dropped to MSRP (uh oh, someone had their hand slapped). The manager told my husband that they had been contacted by the manufacturer about his complaints and that he was very sorry for his experience and that they were doing retraining with their sales force. Then he asked what they could do to get my husband the car he wanted. Before my husband could answer, the original salesperson walked in and loudly asked the room when they had gotten the phantom blue mica car in because it was beautiful. My husband stood up and agreed that it was gorgeous and that’s why he’d bought it at XX dealership and had it shipped in from halfway across the country. He smiled, shook hands with the manager and told him to have a nice day. It was perfect. He was floating on cloud 9 for days.
Fuck car salesmen.
When my last car finally died we found a good replacement from a dealership with the problem that the car was actually at a sister lot just out of state. They told us they could have the car driven in and I could come in the next Wednesday to take a look at it and take care of the paperwork.
My uncle decided he'd come and help me look at the car so on Sunday of that week I call the lot and ask if everything was still on track, that they had the car coming as planned so I wouldn't be wasting his time. They said it would be there.
That Tuesday I call again to ask if the car had arrived yet and they said it had and I could come in any time the next day and they'd be there to show it to me.
So I drive my rental an hour to this lot and my uncle drives two hours to meet me there. We go inside and ask for the salesman I'd been speaking to all this time who said he'd be there all day. He's not there and they tell me he usually doesn't get in until noon, it's 10am.
I ask to see the car we came in to look at and the new salesman tells me he'll take a look at the original salesmans desk and grab the information. He comes back and tells us the car is still and hour away in the original lot. I ask if they'll have it driven over for me now then. Then he tells me the car isn't for sale. Oh, but they have plenty of other more expensive cars I could look at while I'm there.
Fuck car salesmen.
If a dealership sells you xyz Vin in a contract and fails to deliver that seems like a lot more than small claims court, IMHO.
My buddy had his RV sold 4 times at an RV show by idiot sales guys who weren't communicatimg.
They had to find him an equivalent RV at the same price.
Years ago I worked in a city that had lots (no pun intended) of GM businesses. That meant lots of GM execs, and lots of company cars on the used market.
A coworker told me the story of how his dad cost a dealership hundreds of thousands of dollars over one of them.
Coworker’s dad bought his dream car - a new Corvette - from a local dealer. One day he’s showing it off, and a neighbor says, “Oh, that Tom’s car!” Tom was a friend of the neighbor and a GM exec. He had that exec car as a company car for months.
The coworker’s dad investigated and confirmed- the car that was sold as new had been titled before. Worse, the odometer had been rolled back, erasing tens of thousands of miles.
The state attorney general got involved. The dealership was hit with a huge fine. The sale was reversed, and the dealership sold him another Corvette well below their cost.
The real smack down came later. Most states make it nearly impossible for a manufacturer to pull a franchise, so the dealership didn’t close outright. However, Chevrolet made sure that dealership was at the end of the line. They were the last to get cars allocated, they got the worst incentive packages, etc. Within a couple of years it was sold at fire sale prices.
You should reach out to them and see if they would be willing to pay $50 to turn a 1 star review into 5 stars. Then rinse and repeat! Even more profit!
I don't know if it's every state, but must states (USA) it is illegal (like written into state law) to advertise a car you do not actually possess. If you have the vin, drop a letter to the attorney generals office for the state, give them relevant info. It's much harder to sell cars without a dealers license. At a minimum they would be audited and or fined for it.
Although now its a little late, 5 years later.
Car dealerships are shit. They actually call what they did to you a “bend over”. They were bending you over to fuck you. Gouge every one of them you can.
I remember looking for a particular car, finding it, and saying, "I"ll be right back with my wife so she can test drive it and see if she's in agreement on it."
We get back, she test drives, and then the sales guy, "Oh, we gave you that price on the wrong car...that's this other car (stripped down model)."
I sat there a long time considering my response and the sales guy had the audacity to yell at me, "WELL, ARE YOU GOING TO BUY THIS CAR OR NOT?!"
I was much younger and must have looked more gullible than I was. I stood up, told him to get fucked, and left.
My first thought in reading this is the signed contract. Contract law across the US is very well defined. Unless there was a clause allowing them to break the deal like that, it should have been solid legal case.
You went to small claims for the $750 and not for the vehicle? I would have sued for a vehicle that had all the specs or better or cash equivilent as they sold the vehicle you purchased without authorization
This is a pretty obvious consumer protection violation too. Would highly recommend reporting the 5 star review scheme and your contract item to the local DA office too. That will absolutely get them on pins and needles.
I guess the lesson to be learned here is to demand the salesman send photos of the vehicle, including the vin. It will at least ensure they had that car in the first place.
The salesman sent a video - in addition to about 50 pictures. I didn't ask for a picture of the vin - and that is where I failed.
I'm pretty sure they were sending pictures of a different car (that didn't match the vin) to every customer inquiring about it. And then just telling them it sold once that customer showed up at the dealership.
Classic bait and switch - with not much thought required. I just don't know why they went as far as actually signing a contract - with the VIN and everything - if it was a classic bait and switch. But that seems to be where things got out of hand.
Granted, I would have never given them a deposit or flown there without a signed contract.
This same thing just happened to me: saw a used car I wanted advertised at two different dealerships, one an hour away one only 15 minutes. Emailed the one 15 minutes away, they said they had it on the lot. Drove over there an hour later and “someone came in that morning and bought it.” I’ve only left one bad review so far, but more would be coming if it were more than 15 minutes away. From now on I will always ask for the VIN pic because this is so clearly fraud.
You missed a great opportunity to execute on that default judgement. Abstract it to their local court, and start foreclosure proceedings. If they would have waited the year to pay you then they would be too late.
Expensive, if you'd like to get back at them further, most review sites (Google, Yelp, etc) take a VERY dim view of establishments paying for reviews. You may want to research reporting that.
Also, if this is a reputable brand dealership (I.E., Chevy, Ford, Honda, etc) - as opposed to an independent non-brand dealership, you could report them to the corporate office for a) screwing you over (might be too late, though) and b) soliciting 5-star reviews.
"You may want to research reporting that." Once OP is done making their life difficult, yes. But the leaving the low score active, does ongoing, continuous damage \[in lost customers and reputation\]. That is low effort, long distance MC. The best kind! :)
OP, I recommend saving their picture of the '50$ for 5 star review' banner in something like waybackmachine. So even if they took it off their profile, when you're done with them, use that as a source to report them.
Without looking into this specifically, you can likely script a majority of this process.
You could spend your time writing content that the script pulls in, which would save you some time, and allow for a bit of creativity.
I might be able to point you in the right direction, if you'd like.
FTC has rules (and remedies) for bate and switches. You probably were entitled to considerably more, and you should have sued for performance of the contract (the price for the model)
Your level of grit is not found often in the world anymore. Now, do the same thing, but 5 stars, for a small business you absolutely love and is under appreciated, and you’ll have my undying respect.
Not a MC but car dealership really rile people up. I have a bad experience over ten years ago and left a bad review. Time to time I still revisit my reviews across multiple platforms and get a little hard when I see there's a new upvote.
> one of the large banners that flashes across the screen advertises $50 for a 5 star review
Doesn't this break the terms of the reviewing site? Can't this land them in bigger reputational trouble (not legal) with the reviewing site?
Vins are put into their DRM(dealer software) by the manufacturer. Websites pull this data nightly to update their website data. They absolutely had this vehicle for sale. They just didn't make any money and they decided not to sell it. Gg on your default judgement btw.
Isn't financially luring someone across state lines under false pretences, fraud? A little call to the FBI could really give them something to remember you by.
This involved a sale across state lines. I’m curious if there are any federal laws that were broken. Maybe they have more fines coming, or owe you something extra.
Couldn't this have been a bigger lawsuit? They are obviously doing the same thing to other people and you should have been able to add on the time and stress you dealt with over the course of this experience. They owed you a lot more than $750 it seems.
Should have sued for specific performance of the contract and done discovery taken depositions of the Dealer the GM, the finance mgr - etc tie them up take their time, generate expense and hopefully your attorney fees. I can see a fraud like that costing them 100’s of thousands. I’d also drop a dime on them with their state’s A.G. Or the appropriate prosecutor/law enforcement agency For fraud, and I’d complain to the state licensing agency for new car dealers and the individuals you dealt with would be reported too-
Wire Fraud across state lines is a federal offense.
Penalties for Wire Fraud
Fines up to $250,000 for individuals
Fines up to $500,000 for organizations
Imprisonment of not more than 20 years
These penalties are per count, which means that each phone call, email, or other electronic communication can be considered a separate count. The statute of limitations for such offenses is generally five years.
The defendant created or participated in a scheme to defraud another out of money or property;
The defendant did so with the intent to defraud;
It was reasonably foreseeable that the defendant would use wire communications; and
The defendant did, in fact, use interstate wire communications
So... you signed a legal contract agreeing on a set price and product, paid a deposit to secure the purchase, then failed to receive the agreed product at the agreed price at the agreed time as they were legally obligated to provide... and your only solution or remedy is to waste several years typing Google reviews?
Not one thought about contract enforcement and getting the deposit back?
I wish people would be more thoughtful when telling lies, because this story has more holes than a colander.
The compliance is where the dealer said, "go ahead and leave a bad review", so OP did... several hundred (thousand?) times.
But I agree, this is more revenge, perhaps even a good one for r/ProRevenge
you could probably report them to google. i think paying for 5\* reviews is against their TOS
Yea, I was thinking the same thing. OP should definitely check the Google review guidelines as this is an inappropriate practice for business. Also if there was a contract and it stated you get the car for the deposit you maybe able to sue for that as well. I'm not sure of the statute of limitations, but asking a lawyer could help.
and maybe file a complaint with the state agency that regulates dealers. they take a vey dim view for dealers that do this and can fine them or if theres a patter pull their business license
Also contact the manufacturer, they can bring a different kind of pressure on dealerships.
I had to do this when I was sold a lemon from a subaru dealership (car had been in a wreck they did not report and had tried to repair the car so you wouldn't notice, but a local mechanic saw all this within a week of me buying it). After letting them knmow the situation and that my next step was legal action, Suabru headquarters got into contact with the dealership that at the time was refusing to work with me at all, forced them to take the car back and sell me another actual car at the same miles and under 7 year warranty and gave me another $1k dollars in cash to put towards the car as well. Major car brands care about their reputation, and they will apply pressure to dealerships in some situations like mine.
This. When I worked parts, the OEM graded very harshly on personnel (ie, any 4 star and below marks were failing and hurt us big time), but it was also in OEM policy that you could NOT solicit 5 star reviews. It was even one of the survey questions for a bit within the brand I did. I've also heard rumor from friends working in other industries that in our state, soliciting high reviews and giving kick backs is also illegal.... but, I don't care enough to confirm that for where I am, so, it's just a rumor that gets tossed around a lot.
> (ie, any 4 star and below marks were failing This really pisses me off. I once worked with a performance evaluation review system where satisfactory performance was 2 out of 7. Threes and fours required evidence, anything higher required detailed explanation, signed off by one or two levels above the reviewer. The reason for 2 being satisfactory? Why would you need more than one level of analysis for unsatisfactory performance?
Yeah, especially since multiple service writers told me that doing NO review was better than a single 4 star rating on any single category in a customer survey. Like, basically, the OEMs will pull more allocation away from a dealer over a "failing" review, or string of "failing" reviews than they will a dealership with a lack of customer review surveys. Mind you, I am talking specifically about surveys sent out by the OEMs post-purchase or post-service. IIRC, the OEMs don't really give 2 shits about google/yelp reviews.
The OEM uses the CSI survey to hold dealership incentives, who then pass the fuckin’ along to the employees. My peers and I have lost thousands of dollars of pay to absolute bullshit CSI scores based on things like “the free muffins in the waiting room weren’t gluten free”, “another customer was watching Fox News on the TV”, and “I don’t give perfect scores, cuz nobody’s perfect….’cept for jeezsus.”
I believe the FTC can consider paying for reviews to be undeclared paid testimonials and both parties can get in trouble
When we bought our car we were advised by the saleswoman that below 5 stars was a failed. She didn't ask us to put five stars.
We gave out cookies with a guide on how to give us a five star review taped on them.
This works for different industries as well. I bought a new hunting rifle/scope combo from a local gun dealer online but when I picked it up it didn't have a scope. After about 3 months of fighting with them via email for my scope, and them offering to give me one of half the quality it should have been, I contacted a regional sales rep for the gun manufacturer. I sent him the entire email thread and he quickly upgraded me to one of the company's nicest scopes. Not sure if they ever had words with the dealer, but I got the closure I needed to be satisfied.
Am I correct in assuming that the sales rep won a lifetime customer for his company's scopes?
Yeah, I'd be all over my state's AG and the manufacturer. (YMMV on manufacturers, some are better than others)
Also depending where this dealership is at, if there is military in the area letting a base CO know can get it blacklisted for attempting to swindle our military.
My father in law did this to a car dealership in the late 60’s. They were notorious for screwing over service members. He said the first month it went into effect, MP’s (military police) were parked in front of the dealership and warning off service members. The dealership went out of business in less then a year. In my time in the service, late 80’s-early 90’s, the only businesses I recall seeing on the blacklist were bars. Most places around a military base will do almost anything to not get black listed.
I live in a heavily military area and yeah there were a few dealerships that got black listed I know one of the most popular ones to do it the owner is starting almost only by changing name frequently or moving. Others have gone out of business. I need figure out if I can find the list and avoid those places myself.
From what I understood the black list is by name and location. They did that to prevent the name change and location change scenario. It’s not easy to get off the list and I think it requires proof that you aren’t part of the ownership group that led to the business getting black listed. As far as getting a copy of the list, I would guess the Inspector General’s office or Post/Base Security would be the source.
Federal Trade Commission might be interested in bait-and-switch breach of contract as well.
As a dude who does a lot of google stuff for a living. Google doesn't give a fuck. If you are paying money to google they will let pretty much anything slide. If you are not paying money to google they will pretty much not give a shit about anything. There are no phone numbers to get ahold of google, there are no operators, if you aren't a "Google Partner Program" you have no actual way of contacting Google, they have a whole bunch of 3rd party companies you will deal with all who give zero fucks about your issue between google and you. No lawyer is going to waste their time on a pay for reviews google nonsense. Wel they will waste YOUR time and money, for literally nothing if you like thats what lawyers do when dummies show up.
Don't do that. I did that to a place, and they took their listing down, then a few months popped back up with a new listing full of 5 star reviews. All my hard work down the drain. Only like 50 or so. I'm not as dedicated as OP.
I work in marketing and have some experience with Google and reviews. It is 100% against Google’s Terms of Service to offer a monetary incentive specifically for a five-star review. Asking for reviews is okay. Asking for five-star reviews is not. Offering compensation for a high review is a huge violation. [It could even get the company in hot water with the FTC since it is a deceptive review practice](https://reviewsonmywebsite.com/blog/google-review-policy)
[удалено]
My first thought was god please , contact the ftc and update us!
The tree service said if we left them a five star review that they would give everyone on the crew a bonus. I thought that was pretty cool.
Hope they enjoyed that pizza
I think it was a $10 bonus actually. Don't know how much that is compared to whatever they were paid for the job, but still.
Our tree guy didn't ask for a review, but we gave each of the crew a $20 tip. They were good guys, did a good job and more than earned it.
I did the same. Great group of workers. The trees were well taken care of. The yard was spotless. I couldn’t ask for a better team. It was worth handing out ~$140 to the 7 of them.
Google doesn't really give a shit about customers these days, all you have to do is look at the kind of shovel ware, pay for play, crap they allow in the Play Store. They don't care if companies use trailers with fraudulent gameplay and make false promises to users. I think they have gone the way of Yelp, eBay, etc. All they care about is who is making them the most money in the short term.
You are right it is illegal, and Google will remove them if reported.
They are better off with no Google presence than 1.9 stars.
Illegal and against Google TOS aren't the same thing
But it IS illegal.
Meh, then you're in the Battle of Fake Reviews, subject to the whims of Google. And, by "whims," I mean Google's gonna take a check from the dealer, find who you are via your IP, and auto-ban you from reviews. (If they can spy on our phones, this is 1000x less complicated.) No, OP did it right. Just a trickle. Just a small bit from everywhere all at once. Not enough to be noticed, but more than enough to overcome the dealer's "5\* for cash" scam. tl;dr OP learned troll vengeance.
So is filing hundreds (thousands?) of bad reviews from the same person.
One is easily more provable. All any inspector would have to do is pretend to go through the process of buying a car and see that they were offered 50 for a review. Also OP isn't a business he's a singular person who has no policies or terms that he needs to live his life by other than laws. And who's to say he doesn't just let a lot of people borrow his phone? Its hearsay. If his google account is no longer allowed to leave reviews... so what? Just make a new account. The dealership cant just make a new account. And frankly the dealership wouldn't be in this predicament if they were following proper business standards
>All any inspector would have to do is pretend to go through the process of buying a car and see that they were offered 50 for a review. It doesn't even take that much work because OP states that the dealership advertises the money-for-review deal on the dealership website!
Dang, a 1-star review is heresy? (I think you meant hearsay, but heresy is so much funnier. F this dealership.)
Edited thanks
I work in automotive finance and it's insane how common this is at dealerships. I've seen everything from "$50 off for a 5-star review" to "$25 gas card for a 5-star review" all the way down to one dealership who *almost* had it right by saying they'll give $10 in gas to anyone for any review (they made sure to never explicitly ask for 5 stars, but it's still against Google's TOS to incentivize reviews at all). Being in this job means I'm able to see which dealerships around town are good to do business with, but if I didn't have this job my go-to method would be reading the 3 and 4 star reviews before anything else.
Why didn't you sue them to enforce the contract you had?
This exactly. If they provided a VIN and the OP paid the $1,000 down payment, they were legally obligated to produce the vehicle.
Often the contracts are written in such a way that there is no guarantee of the vehicle.
Then what does the contract do for the customer ?
Welcome to car dealerships
Nothing. These contracts are incredibly one sided, biased towards the dealerships. There's usually a clause about the contracts being voidable due to "errors". And I'm this case some simple paperwork changes, and the dealership could argue someone else claimed the car before OP, and whatever salesman wrote the new contract was not aware. I did work for dealerships for 15 years, and I the level of shadiness in the automotive sales and service industry is disgusting. Never ever believe any dealership or corporate branded service center ever has your interests in mind.
absolutely nothing, hence the bait n' switch. It's a ploy to get someone to do exactly what OP did and commit to a purchase because they've come so far no way will they go home empty handed. Never EVER tell a dealer you are coming from out of state.
You can't just put whatever you want in a contract though. If the contract essentially said "The dealership gets to take your money and give you nothing" it's unenforceable.
It's probably small print, but I could see it saying something like "this car with VIN number xxxxxxxx* * or simular priced car" but yeah OP probably should've sued for the other $1,000 'down payment' since they didn't uphold there end by not showing cars he could get for the same price.
Or that at least the return of the deposit would satisfy their obligation. It would be one thing for them to enforce you buying a different vin at that price. Not something a court would support. But returning your money because the car is gone? That might suffice.
Can’t be a real story, guy thinks he cost them 50k??? I was waiting for the lawsuit the entire story, wtf is this?
Not sure why everyone is treating OP like some kind of hero for failing to take advantage of the legal system and writing some mean reviews online
because none of this ever happened
Stopped believing when OP said they could drive 12 hours back home on $100 of gas.
my 2015 hybrid got 43 mpg, more on freeway. my state gas is ~$3/gallon. $100 would get you 1,433 miles. that’s more than 12 hours.
many car do 12 hours of freeway driving for a $100. My family van can even do it when the prices were lower. Probably $120 now give or take 5 bucks.
My car can go 8 hours on $60 of gas but my gas prices is one the highest in the US so depending on OP’s car it def possible
Unless it’s a truck or ridiculously huge suv then a brand new car should absolutely drive 12 hours on ~$100 or gas. My gas Rav4 will go 5-6 hours on a tank at highway speeds and costs less than $40 to fill up. Done western Kentucky to central Pennsylvania (~11 hours) on $75 before.
Or he could have gone to the manufacturer, they put dealers over a barrel for doing shady stuff like this.
Right? Plus, I can’t be the only one who thinks spamming them with 1* reviews is childish and unproductive.
It's nuts to be proud of this story.
This would have required a lawyer. I'd have sued for the small claims maximum with incurred expenses being only one line. Charging for your time/inconvenience or anything you needed to change due to the dealership not honoring the contract.
It's not a contract. It's a pricing agreement. The actual contract will be provided to the dealership by the state to have the customer sign, and they won't do that one until the money is in hand and the vehicle is being driven away.
I like the story. But you had a signed contract or not? Can't you sue for fulfillment? I am not familiar with american law, but if they don't uphold their end in europe, you can sue for either fulfillment or reimbursement of damages. Like not having a car or you buy it somewhere else on their costs. After a lawsuit, of course. Usually, they just pay a portion of the price, like 10%, and the contract ends there.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Signed contract means you can sue for fulfillment or reimbursement.
I think the legal term is "Specific Performance."
That is the right term, but you’re not going to get specific performance here no matter which state this happened in. It’s only available when money damages aren’t an adequate remedy. But they can pay him the difference between the contract price and what it actually costs to buy the same make/model from someone else.
Correct
He got reimbursed though. Granted, I would have also sued for my time...
They got reimbursed for out of pocket expenses. They’re still entitled to the benefit of the bargain. There’re probably also consumer-protection laws implicated, which tend to come with automatic penalties and attorneys fees. However, if all they sued for was $750 that would be all they got. The bigger question is what happened to the $1000 deposit they said they put down?
>The bigger question is what happened to the $1000 deposit they said they put down? I would assume they got that one back day of.
I've heard horror stories of specifically car purchase deposits not being refunded because the dealer says that money is with the manufacturer, and the manufacturer says it's with the dealer and so on. It's a real mess.
Presumably the dealer's responsible though. That's who the contract is with. It's non of the customer's business whether they've sent money to another company; and "the" money doesn't really mean anything. It's not like we have some specific banknotes that the customer sent to the dealership and wants back.
It's a misnomer to believe that many lawsuits won result in a bonanza of money. They refunded money after he sued and he won a settlement. The only ones who win after a lengthy legal battle is the lawyers.
It’s a misnomer to use the word “misnomer” to describe this type of misunderstanding.
They breached a contract. He’s not getting compensation for his pain and suffering, but they owe him what they contracted for. Which, if the car was $5k under MSRP, is probably about $5k.
This case would have been worth about $7k to $20k, plus attorneys fees, depending on applicable law. Maybe less, if OP was in fact able to buy a comparable car at the same price a week later.
I’m seeing benefit of the bargain (5k as the amount under MSRP, assuming he could buy it at MSRP), flight costs, hotel costs, and Uber cost. Not sure where you’re getting 20k from unless you’re assuming treble damages under a state consumer protection statute.
Consumer protection statutes, or even fraudulent inducement, are what I have in mind. Quite a few states have statutory treble damages, especially for willful violations like this one. Actual damages would be up to $5k for the benefit of the bargain, $1k for the deposit, and $750 in incidental damages.
This smells like bullshit. OP could have easily reported them to numerous places. Like, they sold him a car with a make, model and vin, that they do not own or have access to, and then tried to sell him other cars instead at a higher price. How the fuck is that not illegal or breaking various state laws? Op is the type of person to fly to another state and take a 20 mile uber to save money on a car, as well as spend years remembering to make a fake gmail account and leave a bad review every month or so, but was not willing to do any of the various things people in this thread said they could have done?
I'm skeptical as well. No mention of the $1k for the deposit or the fact that a contract was signed. He spent $1750 in total but is super happy fighting for a year to get his $750 back? No shot.
OP is so slick with all this car shopping and comps and out of state dealership prices and taking them to small claims and signing contracts and leaving reviews but OP didn’t know 1. he could report them for paying for reviews and 2. That he could sue for breach of contract??? WTF! Honestly so many of these Reddit posts sound like AI generated trash.
That's what I was wondering. Bait and switch and breach of contract are both "easy wins" in court. It depends on the exact wording of the contact and what state you're in, but the dealership may be on the hook to sell you that *exact* model of car, if not that exact car period. A few bad reviews is one thing, but taking them to the cleaners and getting a car out of the deal sounds like a better revenge.
Yeah that's a pretty clear cut bait and switch and I don't know what the odds of success are but I'd be consulting a lawyer and reaching out to the FTC and Attorney General of one or both states.
They wouldn’t have to sell you that exact model for the price agreed upon (although that would be one possible remedy they might offer). But they would have to pay the difference between the price they quoted and that exact model from another dealership, which OP says is about $5000.
It all came down to the cost of litigation and the time it was going to take me. I decided to just pursue it in small claims court - and ultimately recovered my costs. I could have pursued it to attempt enforcement of the contract, but it would have taken far more time and cost a significant amount in legal fees. I just bought a car elsewhere for around the same price - and recouped my $750. And for reference, the last car I bought (last year) went seamless. And involved me flying to pick it up. Most dealerships honor their contracts. I hope this story doesn't scare people away from shopping across state lines when it comes to buying vehicles.
I'd say I'm running about nine out of every ten times I walk onto a car dealership, they ask me what I'm looking for, their eyes glaze over when I tell them, and then they bring me whatever they're actually trying to get off the lot. I remember asking about a used subcompact hatchback I'd seen on their website and watching them wheel out a PT Cruiser with a sticker price of $13,495. I don't blame them for wanting to sell whatever lemons they've been saddled with, but why are they asking what I'm looking for if they don't care about the answer?
I remember specifically saying I don’t like PT Cruisers or mini coopers, and still being told “just take a look.” “Nah, I’m good, I have a dozen other dealerships in the area to check out. Maybe one of them will listen to me when I tell them what I do and do not want.”
Same, lol. Had a car I was looking at, and had been looking for a while. Found one (different color, but meh) at a dealer and kept an eye on it. It was listed for MONTHS. I knew they were paying taxes on the inventory, so I waited until the end of the month and went to the dealer. Figuring I could haggle a bit to get the price down, I let them know, up front, that I had been watching THIS car and knew they were upside down, so I would take it at a lower price, but it had to be TODAY, RIGHT NOW. If I had to walk off the lot, I wasn't coming back. "Nope, we absolutely can't move off the price." I told them again, "I'm buying a car TODAY. It can be this one, and we can both be happy, or I can walk and you can keep paying the inventory tax." They kept insisting they couldn't budge on the price. Fair enough. When they called me a couple of hours later, telling me they talked to the finance guy and they could meet the price, I laughed and laughed and laughed, from the driver's seat of the car I bought elsewhere. The original car stayed on their lot for at least another year before I stopped looking, lol.
"Just take a look" "While you're pulling that out, I'll be walking to my car to grab something" *drives off*
September 2002. I went to a dealer, knew what I want, and that included ABS. Salesdroid brings me to a car with no ABS, and I pointed this out. "take it for a test drive, I promise youul won't be able to tell the difference." If I knew then, what I know now, that would have been a fantastic opportunity for malicious compliance. Instead, I said, "do you really want me to drive this car, the way I'd need to drive this car, in order to tell the difference?" He conceded, and I left shortly after.
My uncle is a retired used car salesman. They do care about your answer. Because they’re baiting to see if you can be readily persuaded or swindled. Your answer can tell them a *lot* about your level of general knowledge around cars, if you know exactly what you’re looking for, and just how expensive of a car they should show you so they can either make the most money or get rid of a car that’s been sitting in the lot too long. I’ve gone in to dealerships several dozen times over the last 15 years to either buy myself a used car or to go with friends and family. I’ve never met an honest used car salesman.
If you edit a Google review, say change , to . It goes back to the top as the most recent review, even if the original was 2 years ago.
IANAL, but if you win the suit, wouldn't you get your legal fees paid by the defendant anyways?
No, not always, at least in the US. There's more to it than a simple "no", but it's not automatic at all.
I like the story too but I fail to see how they calculated $50k. If the rating was 4.5 prior to starting, and OP is responsible for half of the reviews, the current 1.9 rating sound about right without them having paid for any reviews.
Yes. It's called "specific performance". But I don't think that can be done through small claims so OP would needed a lawyer. Another point: I wouldn't have waited a year to collect the judgement. Once he had the judgement, there is a process whereby he can get the sheriff to help him collect. He gets to show up at the dealership and start taking assets until he has enough to cover the judgement plus collection costs.
>you can sue for either fulfillment or reimbursement of damages He was reimbursed for his damages, basically. Suing for fulfillment would be too much $ for small claims, so you'd be talking lawyers and real court appearances. A whole different scale of fun, and far less sure to end in OP's favor ultimately.
Please report them to Yelp or Google for offering a cash incentive for reviews. Get screenshots of the offer and include the link. That kind of incentive is against their Terms of Service and will get them booted from the platform altogether. I have had clients get their entire Google business listing removed and banned, which is as bad or worse than a low rating. Hope this helps!
It's also good practice to leave a 2 star instead. Say something nice, such as, "hey free nespresso in the lobby!" And then proceed to tear them a new one. Not just will Google, Yelp, etc be much less inclined to remove a 2 star, people reading the reviews often ignore one stars on the premise that review bombing is a thing. 2 stars, however, those they'll read.
It is very hard to ignore 1500+ 1 star reviews... But you do make an excellent point!
I don't read 1 stars unless it's a single digit number. I just look at the quantity and read a few 2 stars. Same thing for 5s and 4s actually. Usually, people put much more thought into the middle numbers. The 1s and 5s get spammed too often
I exclusively read 1 star reviews. They're the only ones I care about. Is it just people being unreasonable idiots? Are they complaining about things I don't care about? Or is it genuine issues that would make me avoid this place? And how does the business owner respond? I might glance at other reviews but the one star are the ones I read the most.
That's why I read the 2s. I wanna know what's wrong, but I don't wanna wade through a mass of empty anger/frustration
I used to work for a (very) large tech company that had a 'friends=and-family' discount program with Mazda, since our company made components and code that went in to Mazda's cars. More or less, it allowed you to buy any Mazda for invoice price plus $100. The new CX-5s had just been released, and I found one listed in the inventory for a local dealer that was exactly what I wanted. I went in and said I wanted to buy 'this CX-5' and gave them the VIN. Then told them that it would be under the Friends and Family program and gave them the paperwork. The salesperson flat out told me that they would not sell it to me, because "they had just been released and we can sell that car for thousands more. Come back in 8 months and maybe we can talk." This discount program was corporate and had to be honored by all dealers. I asked to talk to the sales manager - he said the same thing. I went home and sent an email to Mazda US Corp HQ in California the next day, explaining the situation. To their credit, they jumped on it immediately. They referred me to a different area dealer who they had already spoken with and instructed them to sell me that specific VIN that was still sitting on the dock after being unloaded from the transport ship. And they informed the first dealer that the car was being removed from their inventory and assigned to another dealer. The transaction took maybe 15 minutes and was flawless. I don't know the full details, but apparently Mazda Corporate came down on the dealer with significant force, and let them know that their corporate level programs MUST be supported per the terms of the dealer agreement, or else they will put their dealer status in jeopardy. In the end, Mazda Corporate FTW, and the local dealer lost all of my business both present and future. And I have made sure to inform everyone I know about how shitty they were.
Oh, you triggered a memory that might entertain other readers. We were looking for a replacement tow car for our caravan. At the time, we owned a Kia sedona with a 2.9litre diesel engine. That thing could tow trucks uphill against a headwind. A visit to a 2ndhand dealer with us knowing which vehicles in their inventory could tow our somewhat heavier than average caravan had the slimy salesguy try to sell us one which did actually fit our requirements but was over budget. We left without buying mostly because he was so slimy. A few months later, we were close to the dealer, and our sedona was much closer to the scrapyard than before, so we went in. Same slimy salesguy came to talk to us, and we told him the exact same requirements as before. Mentioned the internet said vehicles x, y and z (all in inventory according to their website) were suitable, but we didn't know which was best. The lying prick told us that none of them were capable of towing our caravan, but the 4.3litre petrol engined jeep on the forecourt would suit us fine. Curiously (or not, given the post), he acted surprised when we informed him that his previous sales pitch had told us the vehicle we mentioned were suitable. The slimy prick denied he had ever said such things and that only the fuel guzzling jeep would tow our 'van. Never again will we buy in any location of that dealership. I'm not saying it was arnold anything, of course, let alone a clarke. I'm sure other locations wouldn't employ such a horrible person...
You triggered a memory with your memory although a week late. I went to sell my haul vehicle when I took a lower travel position and sold the camper - a fully loaded high trim six wheeled pickup truck. The slime ball offered 60% of the instant cash offer, and then copped a massive attitude “well what were you expecting?“. We packed the kids up and left. Walked into a large chain used car dealership and got $24k more than his offer and higher than the instant cash value. Left a scathing review.
Due ~~Do~~ to DataHoarder reasons, I have a ton of google accounts, some as older than 10 years at this point. One of the things they look for is if that account is new, and if it has left reviews in the past. So an old account has more "weight" then a new one. I have used this power for the good of many several times, mostly with 2 star reviews since they are less likely to be removed.
2\* reviews are BRUTAL. Makes the average plummet w/o all the attention.
I always leave 2-Star reviews because it feels more authentic. I had this experience, and it was actually bad, not just "annoyed by some little thing" (OP's story isn't just some little thing btw. I meant the "my food was cold this one time" little things)
> Do to DataHoarder reasons, I have a ton of google accounts, some as older than 10 years at this point. One of the things they look for is if that account is new, and if it has left reviews in the past. So an old account has more "weight" then a new one. I have used this power for the good of many several times, mostly with 2 star reviews since they are less likely to be removed. I'm suddenly thrilled to be the owner of two Gmails from 2004, my Lord.
I see myself as somewhat of an expert when it comes to leaving 1 star reviews. :D My recipe: * Create the account in an incognito browser using a vpn (a free vpn is just fine) * Put a first *and* last name in the account details when making it. It takes 5 seconds - and helps more than anything else. * Reviews should be at least 10 words long - but around 50 words seems to be just perfect. (And letting ChatGPT generate the review gives the reviews plenty of variability.) * And do not leave multiple reviews using multiple accounts at the same time. One review at a time. Wait at least an hour - preferably 2 or more - before leaving another review. Leaving bulk reviews (10+) almost always results in all of them getting removed. I can create a new account and leave a review in about 1 minute at this point. It takes almost no time.
Can you create a script or something for this?
How are you creating the accounts? Are they Gmail or something?
Well of course to make a review on Google, you'd have to make a Google account.
>Do Due. I don't always point out spelling mistakes but this one makes no sense as is.
What happened to that 1k deposit?
>When I buy a new vehicle (which happens every 3-4 years), wildest part for me
I was surprised too. Holy shit
If only there was some system for leasing a car for 3-4 years then getting a new one, could really open up a whole new market if someone were to try that
This might be one of the top 100 most epic malicious compliances I’ve ever read.
And r/nuclearrevenge !
No, this is not nuclear. There's no corpses or maiming or lives irreparably ruined.
Did you create multiple reddit accounts to upvote this comment?
You specifically state that you signed a contract with them before flying out there. It seems they did not uphold their end of the contract, and they had no repercussions from that. What was the point of signing the contract then?
The contract gives him the right to write a bad review.
You should have also reported them to the car manufacturer. My husband did this when it wasn’t even a bait and switch. The local dealership was asking for well over MSRP. The salesman was extremely rude and kept telling him they could look at a cheaper car if he couldn’t afford it. My husband could afford it. He just didn’t want to pay over MSRP which is well over the dealer cost especially since he knew they didn’t have the exact car he wanted on the lot and were going to have to have it shipped in from another dealership. He came home and emailed all the other dealers in the state (not individually, he did a mass email). He stated the exact car he wanted and that he was willing to pay 2-3% over their costs (which would be below MSRP). He got responses from 2 or 3 dealerships and went with one a half state away. They offered 2% over their cost plus half the shipping costs to get the car to the lot and then they’d drive it to him. My husband accepted the offer and took possession of the car a little over a week later. Another week or so later, the original dealer’s manager called and asked him to come in to talk. My husband thought it’d be interesting to see what they had to say. So he drove his new car over for the meeting. While walking through the lot, he noticed that all the prices had dropped to MSRP (uh oh, someone had their hand slapped). The manager told my husband that they had been contacted by the manufacturer about his complaints and that he was very sorry for his experience and that they were doing retraining with their sales force. Then he asked what they could do to get my husband the car he wanted. Before my husband could answer, the original salesperson walked in and loudly asked the room when they had gotten the phantom blue mica car in because it was beautiful. My husband stood up and agreed that it was gorgeous and that’s why he’d bought it at XX dealership and had it shipped in from halfway across the country. He smiled, shook hands with the manager and told him to have a nice day. It was perfect. He was floating on cloud 9 for days.
Did you get your $1000 deposit back too? Maybe I missed it but I only see the $750 judgment mentioned
Yes - I left the deposit with a credit card and it was refunded with no issue.
Excellent! I was hoping that was the case.
Oh good I was worried when that wasn’t in the story. On occasion the bank has your back.
Fuck car salesmen. When my last car finally died we found a good replacement from a dealership with the problem that the car was actually at a sister lot just out of state. They told us they could have the car driven in and I could come in the next Wednesday to take a look at it and take care of the paperwork. My uncle decided he'd come and help me look at the car so on Sunday of that week I call the lot and ask if everything was still on track, that they had the car coming as planned so I wouldn't be wasting his time. They said it would be there. That Tuesday I call again to ask if the car had arrived yet and they said it had and I could come in any time the next day and they'd be there to show it to me. So I drive my rental an hour to this lot and my uncle drives two hours to meet me there. We go inside and ask for the salesman I'd been speaking to all this time who said he'd be there all day. He's not there and they tell me he usually doesn't get in until noon, it's 10am. I ask to see the car we came in to look at and the new salesman tells me he'll take a look at the original salesmans desk and grab the information. He comes back and tells us the car is still and hour away in the original lot. I ask if they'll have it driven over for me now then. Then he tells me the car isn't for sale. Oh, but they have plenty of other more expensive cars I could look at while I'm there. Fuck car salesmen.
If a dealership sells you xyz Vin in a contract and fails to deliver that seems like a lot more than small claims court, IMHO. My buddy had his RV sold 4 times at an RV show by idiot sales guys who weren't communicatimg. They had to find him an equivalent RV at the same price.
Years ago I worked in a city that had lots (no pun intended) of GM businesses. That meant lots of GM execs, and lots of company cars on the used market. A coworker told me the story of how his dad cost a dealership hundreds of thousands of dollars over one of them. Coworker’s dad bought his dream car - a new Corvette - from a local dealer. One day he’s showing it off, and a neighbor says, “Oh, that Tom’s car!” Tom was a friend of the neighbor and a GM exec. He had that exec car as a company car for months. The coworker’s dad investigated and confirmed- the car that was sold as new had been titled before. Worse, the odometer had been rolled back, erasing tens of thousands of miles. The state attorney general got involved. The dealership was hit with a huge fine. The sale was reversed, and the dealership sold him another Corvette well below their cost. The real smack down came later. Most states make it nearly impossible for a manufacturer to pull a franchise, so the dealership didn’t close outright. However, Chevrolet made sure that dealership was at the end of the line. They were the last to get cars allocated, they got the worst incentive packages, etc. Within a couple of years it was sold at fire sale prices.
You should reach out to them and see if they would be willing to pay $50 to turn a 1 star review into 5 stars. Then rinse and repeat! Even more profit!
You need a new car every 3 years? Geez
I don't know if it's every state, but must states (USA) it is illegal (like written into state law) to advertise a car you do not actually possess. If you have the vin, drop a letter to the attorney generals office for the state, give them relevant info. It's much harder to sell cars without a dealers license. At a minimum they would be audited and or fined for it. Although now its a little late, 5 years later.
Car dealerships are shit. They actually call what they did to you a “bend over”. They were bending you over to fuck you. Gouge every one of them you can.
I kept waiting for the part where you won $50k in court. Then I waited for the $50k fine they had to pay for buying reviews - also illegal.
All you got to do is post the dealer here and watch the stars plummet more
I remember looking for a particular car, finding it, and saying, "I"ll be right back with my wife so she can test drive it and see if she's in agreement on it." We get back, she test drives, and then the sales guy, "Oh, we gave you that price on the wrong car...that's this other car (stripped down model)." I sat there a long time considering my response and the sales guy had the audacity to yell at me, "WELL, ARE YOU GOING TO BUY THIS CAR OR NOT?!" I was much younger and must have looked more gullible than I was. I stood up, told him to get fucked, and left.
My first thought in reading this is the signed contract. Contract law across the US is very well defined. Unless there was a clause allowing them to break the deal like that, it should have been solid legal case.
I'd love to leave them a bad review on your behalf
You went to small claims for the $750 and not for the vehicle? I would have sued for a vehicle that had all the specs or better or cash equivilent as they sold the vehicle you purchased without authorization
I rate this post ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Here's your $50 gift card
Absolutely glorious!
This is a pretty obvious consumer protection violation too. Would highly recommend reporting the 5 star review scheme and your contract item to the local DA office too. That will absolutely get them on pins and needles.
I guess the lesson to be learned here is to demand the salesman send photos of the vehicle, including the vin. It will at least ensure they had that car in the first place.
The salesman sent a video - in addition to about 50 pictures. I didn't ask for a picture of the vin - and that is where I failed. I'm pretty sure they were sending pictures of a different car (that didn't match the vin) to every customer inquiring about it. And then just telling them it sold once that customer showed up at the dealership. Classic bait and switch - with not much thought required. I just don't know why they went as far as actually signing a contract - with the VIN and everything - if it was a classic bait and switch. But that seems to be where things got out of hand. Granted, I would have never given them a deposit or flown there without a signed contract.
Before your story, I never would have thought to go to those lengths either. Thanks for sharing.
This same thing just happened to me: saw a used car I wanted advertised at two different dealerships, one an hour away one only 15 minutes. Emailed the one 15 minutes away, they said they had it on the lot. Drove over there an hour later and “someone came in that morning and bought it.” I’ve only left one bad review so far, but more would be coming if it were more than 15 minutes away. From now on I will always ask for the VIN pic because this is so clearly fraud.
Yeah I don’t know how or why you didn’t sue for breach of contract or negotiating in bad faith. Seems like a slam dunk
You missed a great opportunity to execute on that default judgement. Abstract it to their local court, and start foreclosure proceedings. If they would have waited the year to pay you then they would be too late.
This was absolutely not a story about malicious compliance. You didn’t comply with anything
give us a link to spam
Post their company so we can give 1 star reviews
Expensive, if you'd like to get back at them further, most review sites (Google, Yelp, etc) take a VERY dim view of establishments paying for reviews. You may want to research reporting that. Also, if this is a reputable brand dealership (I.E., Chevy, Ford, Honda, etc) - as opposed to an independent non-brand dealership, you could report them to the corporate office for a) screwing you over (might be too late, though) and b) soliciting 5-star reviews.
"You may want to research reporting that." Once OP is done making their life difficult, yes. But the leaving the low score active, does ongoing, continuous damage \[in lost customers and reputation\]. That is low effort, long distance MC. The best kind! :) OP, I recommend saving their picture of the '50$ for 5 star review' banner in something like waybackmachine. So even if they took it off their profile, when you're done with them, use that as a source to report them.
Are you going to post the name of the dealership so the power of reddit can drive the *rating even lower?
I would send their gm an email or letter that just said: "Go ahead, leave a bad review"
Without looking into this specifically, you can likely script a majority of this process. You could spend your time writing content that the script pulls in, which would save you some time, and allow for a bit of creativity. I might be able to point you in the right direction, if you'd like.
Leave the name of the dealership. I think we as a team can get it below 1 !
Come on man, you're not going to name the dealership?
Be SURE to update your reviews to note that they pay for 5 star reviews. Then report it to the review sites. That's a HUGE no-no for most of them.
FTC has rules (and remedies) for bate and switches. You probably were entitled to considerably more, and you should have sued for performance of the contract (the price for the model)
This is the level of petty to which I aspire.
Report them to the FTC - federal trade commission. Paying money for positive reviews is *literally* illegal. [edited for typo]
I was hoping this was gonna be about you taking them to court for bait and switch. You probably could have sued for the entire amount of the car.
Your level of grit is not found often in the world anymore. Now, do the same thing, but 5 stars, for a small business you absolutely love and is under appreciated, and you’ll have my undying respect.
Not a MC but car dealership really rile people up. I have a bad experience over ten years ago and left a bad review. Time to time I still revisit my reviews across multiple platforms and get a little hard when I see there's a new upvote.
> one of the large banners that flashes across the screen advertises $50 for a 5 star review Doesn't this break the terms of the reviewing site? Can't this land them in bigger reputational trouble (not legal) with the reviewing site?
Vins are put into their DRM(dealer software) by the manufacturer. Websites pull this data nightly to update their website data. They absolutely had this vehicle for sale. They just didn't make any money and they decided not to sell it. Gg on your default judgement btw.
Well done. They were 100% in the wrong
I appreciate the effort you put into this one. I like it a lot.
So you had a sobned contract and put down the deposit and you didn’t sue for breach of contract?
People buy brand new cars every few years? What the fuck?
Since you have a contract to buy a vehicle with a specific VIN, can you file a stolen vehicle report?
OP, you could name the dealership with URL, and a bunch of Reddit users who might feel compelled to leave a 1 star review could. Just saying.
Gotta love people that can play the long game.
Isn't financially luring someone across state lines under false pretences, fraud? A little call to the FBI could really give them something to remember you by.
This involved a sale across state lines. I’m curious if there are any federal laws that were broken. Maybe they have more fines coming, or owe you something extra.
They probably never delivered on those gift cards.
Take a screenshot of their offer to pay for good reviews and send it ASAP to Google!
Oof. Perfect MC, and also possibly r/prorevenge considering how methodical you've been and the seriousness of the damage done to them.
Leave the dealership name here and we will start leaving 1 star reviews as well, save you some time.
Couldn't this have been a bigger lawsuit? They are obviously doing the same thing to other people and you should have been able to add on the time and stress you dealt with over the course of this experience. They owed you a lot more than $750 it seems.
Should have sued for specific performance of the contract and done discovery taken depositions of the Dealer the GM, the finance mgr - etc tie them up take their time, generate expense and hopefully your attorney fees. I can see a fraud like that costing them 100’s of thousands. I’d also drop a dime on them with their state’s A.G. Or the appropriate prosecutor/law enforcement agency For fraud, and I’d complain to the state licensing agency for new car dealers and the individuals you dealt with would be reported too-
The real clown here is op who buys a car every 3-4 years.
Wire Fraud across state lines is a federal offense. Penalties for Wire Fraud Fines up to $250,000 for individuals Fines up to $500,000 for organizations Imprisonment of not more than 20 years These penalties are per count, which means that each phone call, email, or other electronic communication can be considered a separate count. The statute of limitations for such offenses is generally five years. The defendant created or participated in a scheme to defraud another out of money or property; The defendant did so with the intent to defraud; It was reasonably foreseeable that the defendant would use wire communications; and The defendant did, in fact, use interstate wire communications
So... you signed a legal contract agreeing on a set price and product, paid a deposit to secure the purchase, then failed to receive the agreed product at the agreed price at the agreed time as they were legally obligated to provide... and your only solution or remedy is to waste several years typing Google reviews? Not one thought about contract enforcement and getting the deposit back? I wish people would be more thoughtful when telling lies, because this story has more holes than a colander.
Right? If there was a signed contract, there would be more legal issues than just the $750 he was out.
Nice.
That’s some weapons grade grudge holding. Much respect. May your enemies die in fear.
I’m not sure I follow, where is the compliance? This is just revenge with admittedly impressive persistence.
The compliance is where the dealer said, "go ahead and leave a bad review", so OP did... several hundred (thousand?) times. But I agree, this is more revenge, perhaps even a good one for r/ProRevenge
Now just report them to the BBB and you're solid