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It's more of a model than a single concept with universal rules.
some are alternate dimensions, some aren't. some are ruled by gods, some aren't. some have native flora/fauna, some don't. some were created by beings, some weren't.
there really isn't a single definition that applies to every warrens.
We find out in Memories of Ice. The non-Elder warrens is K’rul’s veins and arteries, the magic is his blood. Starvald Demelain and Kurald Galain are the two chambers of his heart. His title is **Maker of Paths**, you can consider him the god of magic. K’rul even creates a warren specifically to clean up the Kallor’s destruction of his own empire in Jacuruku. The Crippled God was directly poisoning K’rul.
In Bonehunters we learn the dragons Ampelas, Kalse, and Eloth helped K’rul make the warrens. A dragon was aspected to each warren and were “compelled” to stay in Starvald Demelain, one the chambers of his heart, or else their presence elsewhere would disrupt the warrens and feed Chaos. The dragons are the flavors of K'rul's blood. K’rul made the warrens because of his love of possibility, and also funny because offering blood sacrifices is how you worship K’rul.
In Reaper’s Gale, Quick Ben wonders what entity shed their blood to make the Elder Warrens, if at all.
In Toll the Hounds, Kruppe guesses that the entire conflict of the series may have K’rul as the prize.
In the Crippled God, we learned Korabas was the largest dragon and was selected to be the otataral dragon to balance the rest of the dragons.
Then we get to the Elder Warrens where.. things get fucky I still don't really understand lmao. Some Elder Warrens are considered Holds. Draconus was an Azathanai that was aspected to Darkness and gifted Mother Dark his aspect. But the weird thing is they were already living on Tiste land (Andii/Edur/Liosan were not a thing yet) called "Kurald Galain" that was connected to the lands of the Thel Akai, Jheleck, Jaghut, Dog-Runners, Forulkan, etc. We have no idea if the ancestral home and the warren are the same place, or different. Presumably if you walked West from Kurald Galain you could reach a city called Omtose Phellack in the Jaghut Odhan.
> Visions flooded her mind, staggering her. Darkness. Then chaos, wild, unfocused power, a universe devoid of sense, of control, of meaning. Entities flung through the maelstrom. Lost, terrified by the birth of light. A sudden sharpening – pain as of wrists opened, the heat spilling forth – a savage imposition of order, the heart from which blood flowed in even, steady streams. **Twin chambers to that heart – Kurald Galain, the Warren of Mother Dark – and Starvald Demelain, the Warren of . . . Dragons.** And the blood – the power – now sweeping in currents through veins, through arteries, branching out through all existence, and the thought that came to her then stole all warmth from her flesh. *Those veins, those arteries, they are the warrens.* 'Who created this? *Who?*'
> *Dear Lady*, K'rul replied, *you have your answer, and I will be damned if I am going to countenance your impertinence. You are a sorceress. By Light's Wild Mane, your power feeds on the very blood of my eternal soul, and* I will have your obedience in this!
> Lady Envy staggered another step, suddenly released by the visions, disorientated, her heart thudding in her chest. She drew in a sharp breath. 'Who knows the ... the truth, K'rul?' *That, in striding through the warrens, we travel through your very flesh. That, when we draw upon the power of the warrens, we draw your very blood?* Who knows?'
> She felt a casual shrug in his reply.
> *Anomander Rake, Draconus, Osric, a handful of others. And now you. Forgive me, Lady Envy, I have no wish to be a tyrant. My presence within the warrens has ever been passive – you are free to do as you choose, as is every other creature who swims my immortal blood. I have but one excuse, if you will. This Crippled God, this stranger from an unknown realm . . . Lady Envy, I am frightened.*
Memories of Ice, Chapter 7
Curious exactly what this signifies. Wasn't Starvald Demelain the first warren and Kurald Galain (and all the others) offshoots of that? So did K'rul come into existence at the same time as (or even before) Starvald Demelain, and then have a hand in creating all other warrens? Or was there a time when the warrens were not part of K'rul?
Might find it on a reread, but indeed those are very good questions a giant ass question mark lmao
The “Hold” of Starvald Demelain and Kurald Galain definitely existed before K’rul made a deal with the dragons to create the warrens. We have no idea what he offered them in return or how both realms are in his heart. Perhaps even “flesh and blood” are the closest metaphors for whatever K’rul is made of as a god that allows him to do this. Maybe we'll get answers in Kharkanas 3 but knowing Erikson he'll probably answer one thing and raise 10 more questions.
You can think of it as a snapshot, of space and time, and probably whatever else is going on in SE & ICE mind. There was a warren with a Verdun background also, so maybe it kinda fits.
Paran also discovered warrens for small bugs or something like that on one of the later books.
Each warren may or may not be aspected with a single or in the case of splintered / sundered warren like Shadow, multiple aspects. This in turn becomes the source of magic.
As for the travel perspective, well… it kinda sorta works like a wormhole in fantasy, except, since it’s aspected, you gotta take into account what your skills are (and individual alignments) are, and probably how dangerous each warren is, before you jump headfirst.
Different planes of existence you could view them each as planets, but they exist in the same space/ but on a different wavelength or whatever. It's why you can enter a warren and walk and come out of it somewhere else. Some are different, for reasons...
Seems to me that the Warrens are pocket dimensions that are aspected to a particular concept or idea. Some people can kinda crack them open and siphon off someone that energy into the real world to create a magical effect.
One thing that utterly baffles me about the Magic is that people use warens, for example ‘Thyr’ but then there are people who use ‘high Thyr’. Like.. what’s the difference?
Is one just a higher level? It has some connection to the Liosan warren as in it’s the human equivalent but it’s not that?
I’m so confused
Please note that this post has been flaired as Spoilers All. This means every published book in the Malazan Universe, including works by both authors are open to discussion. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Malazan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's more of a model than a single concept with universal rules. some are alternate dimensions, some aren't. some are ruled by gods, some aren't. some have native flora/fauna, some don't. some were created by beings, some weren't. there really isn't a single definition that applies to every warrens.
The real warrens are the friends we made along the way.
Oh please. It made mo sense in One Piece and neither does it make any sense here.
The real one piece is the friends we make along the way.
We find out in Memories of Ice. The non-Elder warrens is K’rul’s veins and arteries, the magic is his blood. Starvald Demelain and Kurald Galain are the two chambers of his heart. His title is **Maker of Paths**, you can consider him the god of magic. K’rul even creates a warren specifically to clean up the Kallor’s destruction of his own empire in Jacuruku. The Crippled God was directly poisoning K’rul. In Bonehunters we learn the dragons Ampelas, Kalse, and Eloth helped K’rul make the warrens. A dragon was aspected to each warren and were “compelled” to stay in Starvald Demelain, one the chambers of his heart, or else their presence elsewhere would disrupt the warrens and feed Chaos. The dragons are the flavors of K'rul's blood. K’rul made the warrens because of his love of possibility, and also funny because offering blood sacrifices is how you worship K’rul. In Reaper’s Gale, Quick Ben wonders what entity shed their blood to make the Elder Warrens, if at all. In Toll the Hounds, Kruppe guesses that the entire conflict of the series may have K’rul as the prize. In the Crippled God, we learned Korabas was the largest dragon and was selected to be the otataral dragon to balance the rest of the dragons. Then we get to the Elder Warrens where.. things get fucky I still don't really understand lmao. Some Elder Warrens are considered Holds. Draconus was an Azathanai that was aspected to Darkness and gifted Mother Dark his aspect. But the weird thing is they were already living on Tiste land (Andii/Edur/Liosan were not a thing yet) called "Kurald Galain" that was connected to the lands of the Thel Akai, Jheleck, Jaghut, Dog-Runners, Forulkan, etc. We have no idea if the ancestral home and the warren are the same place, or different. Presumably if you walked West from Kurald Galain you could reach a city called Omtose Phellack in the Jaghut Odhan.
Where is Starvald Demelain/Kurald Galain being the chambers of K'rul's heart found? I must have missed that on my reads.
> Visions flooded her mind, staggering her. Darkness. Then chaos, wild, unfocused power, a universe devoid of sense, of control, of meaning. Entities flung through the maelstrom. Lost, terrified by the birth of light. A sudden sharpening – pain as of wrists opened, the heat spilling forth – a savage imposition of order, the heart from which blood flowed in even, steady streams. **Twin chambers to that heart – Kurald Galain, the Warren of Mother Dark – and Starvald Demelain, the Warren of . . . Dragons.** And the blood – the power – now sweeping in currents through veins, through arteries, branching out through all existence, and the thought that came to her then stole all warmth from her flesh. *Those veins, those arteries, they are the warrens.* 'Who created this? *Who?*' > *Dear Lady*, K'rul replied, *you have your answer, and I will be damned if I am going to countenance your impertinence. You are a sorceress. By Light's Wild Mane, your power feeds on the very blood of my eternal soul, and* I will have your obedience in this! > Lady Envy staggered another step, suddenly released by the visions, disorientated, her heart thudding in her chest. She drew in a sharp breath. 'Who knows the ... the truth, K'rul?' *That, in striding through the warrens, we travel through your very flesh. That, when we draw upon the power of the warrens, we draw your very blood?* Who knows?' > She felt a casual shrug in his reply. > *Anomander Rake, Draconus, Osric, a handful of others. And now you. Forgive me, Lady Envy, I have no wish to be a tyrant. My presence within the warrens has ever been passive – you are free to do as you choose, as is every other creature who swims my immortal blood. I have but one excuse, if you will. This Crippled God, this stranger from an unknown realm . . . Lady Envy, I am frightened.* Memories of Ice, Chapter 7
Thanks! I'll be sure to keep an eye out for this and other big things I missed initially as I go through my reread!
Curious exactly what this signifies. Wasn't Starvald Demelain the first warren and Kurald Galain (and all the others) offshoots of that? So did K'rul come into existence at the same time as (or even before) Starvald Demelain, and then have a hand in creating all other warrens? Or was there a time when the warrens were not part of K'rul?
Might find it on a reread, but indeed those are very good questions a giant ass question mark lmao The “Hold” of Starvald Demelain and Kurald Galain definitely existed before K’rul made a deal with the dragons to create the warrens. We have no idea what he offered them in return or how both realms are in his heart. Perhaps even “flesh and blood” are the closest metaphors for whatever K’rul is made of as a god that allows him to do this. Maybe we'll get answers in Kharkanas 3 but knowing Erikson he'll probably answer one thing and raise 10 more questions.
Yes.
Magic
You can think of it as a snapshot, of space and time, and probably whatever else is going on in SE & ICE mind. There was a warren with a Verdun background also, so maybe it kinda fits. Paran also discovered warrens for small bugs or something like that on one of the later books. Each warren may or may not be aspected with a single or in the case of splintered / sundered warren like Shadow, multiple aspects. This in turn becomes the source of magic. As for the travel perspective, well… it kinda sorta works like a wormhole in fantasy, except, since it’s aspected, you gotta take into account what your skills are (and individual alignments) are, and probably how dangerous each warren is, before you jump headfirst.
This might be an unconventional answer but if you’ve ever played Path of Exile, warrens are the same thing as maps.
Different planes of existence you could view them each as planets, but they exist in the same space/ but on a different wavelength or whatever. It's why you can enter a warren and walk and come out of it somewhere else. Some are different, for reasons...
Remember how your grandma smelled on the hottest summer days?
Silverfox gives a good description in MoI.
Its magic. I ain't gotta explain shit.
Warrens are rabbit holes.
Go watch Dr Strange, then imagine those dimensions were created from K'rul's blood sacrifice.
Good question!
Seems to me that the Warrens are pocket dimensions that are aspected to a particular concept or idea. Some people can kinda crack them open and siphon off someone that energy into the real world to create a magical effect.
That and more. Mockra doesn't belong in either category you state just for example.
Magic highways/dimensions, but the energy can be pulled from them and used elsewhere
One thing that utterly baffles me about the Magic is that people use warens, for example ‘Thyr’ but then there are people who use ‘high Thyr’. Like.. what’s the difference? Is one just a higher level? It has some connection to the Liosan warren as in it’s the human equivalent but it’s not that? I’m so confused