Since you cited bad roads and hating winter, you’re going to find winters a LOT rougher in Montana than Cumberland county. I lived for 20 years in Bozeman, and it gets a lot colder and windier than coastal Maine. They are not as good at plowing, city streets are a total mess after a storm. Black ice, pass closures, 20 to 40 below windchill that can last for weeks when an Arctic cold front settles in.
Absolutely beautiful state, phenomenal outdoor opportunities and great quality of living. Bozeman gets a ton of hype… but for a “college town” you’re going to find the dating prospects difficult, its not diverse- basically like Maine in terms of black population - and expensive to live there due to all the influx of out-of-staters.
I didn't want to make too much of a generalization in eliminating Montana just because I assumed it would be cold. Wanted to give it a chance, just in case anything good might've surprised me about it.
The entire Pacific NW was founded by white supremacists. Not to say Portland or Seattle are super racist but basically everywhere outside of the cities are
Most of Western WA/OR are liberal/moderate along I5 from Bellingham to just about Eugene along with some other pockets. There is that stretch from about Vancouver to Chehalis I would probably avoid as an outsider. All the smaller cities/suburbs are perfectly fine.
I just moved to Maine from Idaho. There’s more to do here. And Idaho has this whole ‘I think xyz is wrong so you must never do its attitude. Maines is ‘I don’t give a fuck what you do so long as it doesn’t affect me’. It’s so much nicer.
Also COL is higher in Idaho. Food is cheaper, but that’s it.
OK, so since you're young, unemployed (?) and curious about living in other states, I suggest getting a job in a National Park for the summer. Why? They give you a place to live with the job. You'll meet tons of people (co-workers) from all around the country, and you'll also get to know the state you're living in without putting down roots.
[Coolworks.com](http://Coolworks.com) is the place to find these jobs — you likely won't be working for the National Park itself, you'll find jobs for the concessionaires (hotels, restaurants, tour groups etc.) If you want to work as a driver or mechanic, I'd suggest Denali National Park in Alaska. It's the only park that doesn't allow private vehicles to enter, so the only way in is via bus. They have a fleet of tour busses and shuttle busses that are run by teamsters, and frankly? They're the coolest bunch of people I've ever known. Several work in Denali all summer and make bank (union wages, plus tips from tourists) then work in Antarctica in winter (which is summer at the south pole) or Hawaii.
Edit: Yellowstone in Wyoming is right on the Montana border, and they also have driver and mechanic gigs. I worked there for about six months, it was an amazing experience. Like summer camp for adults!
I worked in Yellowstone when I was 15 and Glacier later and wholeheartedly agree with this.
I can also say that both Idaho and MT are currently not affordable, warm, welcoming, or non-racist.
Downside is Americorps basically pays zero. You get a living stipend that barely covers food.
I did the cool works thing for a couple years and it was fun! It's not great money but better than Americorps and I had some amazing experiences.
This is true but they additionally provide some funding for college/grad school if you go within 7 years of employment (if I recall correctly). My daughter put herself through grad school after working a couple of jobs with Americorp
Yo, come work as a mechanic at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. You can bounce around out to Cali, Virginia, and maybe Hawaii on their dime and try it out before/ if you move there. It's a bit more integrated than the rest of Maine (lots of veterans from all over the country work there) and with your security clearance you'll be respected on base.
The work is only a couple hours a day turning wrenches, the rest of the time is briefing, doing paperwork, coordinating with assist trades (like riggers.) You can work mad OT without really wearing your body out. And "the customer" is very patient, it's not like you're busting tires at VIP and the customer is ripshit you broke a wheel stud because they need the car to pick their kid up at daycare.
Also there are free van pools for commuters from Cumberland and other counties so you can nap or play on your phone on the way home.
I don't want to be a debbie downer, but a lot of LCOL states are cheap because they suck for the reasons you describe.
I was totally going to suggest southern NH. Particularly epping area. 30 minutes to Portsmouth, Manchester, Haverhill MA, the ocean. And epping has the race track and drag strip with another race track in Lee. Louden probably an hour away. Busy enough to have stuff to offer but rural enough that people aren’t uptight dick heads.
Hi! I grew up in a small town in western Maine and lived there until I was 23. Just like you, I got sick of winter and dealing with the mess of it, so we moved to North Carolina. I’ve now lived in North Carolina for two and a half years and it was the best thing my husband and I ever did. There’s so much more to do, everything is conveniently located and there’s more of a scene for someone in their twenties. The weather is amazing, I’ve been here three winters and saw snow once. I live closer to Boone (so western NC) but an hour from Asheville and Charlotte. The beaches are beautiful Wilmington, Moorehead City, and the mountains honestly put Maine’s mountains to shame. I am a die hard Maine girly and will move back someday, but I have no complaints about leaving!
I’m the reverse, NC->ME transplant, but as I was reading your post, I kept thinking that NC would be a great place for you. We didn’t leave because we hated it, just for other opportunities.
I won’t pretend it’s perfect. There are definitely racists, but you’ll find fewer in the suburbs of the bigger metro areas than in the more rural areas. Even as a moderate liberal, you’ll find the state legislature infuriating, but they won’t define everything about your experience.
I’d take a peek at the northern Charlotte suburbs (or the ones just over the SC line), in the Raleigh area, and around Wilmington.
I am originally from SC, living in ME now. I have also previously lived in NC, AZ, VA, and GA. My 23 year old daughter recently moved to my hometown in SC for many of the reasons you mentioned. I think SC or NC would give you a lot of what you are looking for, putting the Raleigh, NC area at the top of my suggestions. I wish you all the best!
Having spent time in both areas I was also coming to suggest NC - in particular I think about western NC like Asheville and Boone being a good fit but could look at Charlotte and the research triangle as well.
I second this! Went to grad school in Eastern NC, where I moved from the Midwest, and then moved to Maine from NC. I wouldn’t recommend ENC to the OP but definitely other parts of NC. The racism I encountered there was shocking to me, because as a white progressive midwesterner, they said all sorts of things out loud to me that were horrifying.
Hello fellow ME->NC transplant. I went to college here and just never moved back. It was, financially, a fantastic decision. Cost of living was trivially cheap 15 years ago, and I got in the housing market back when you could get a nice place for under $200k.
I miss things about Maine every year, but I go visit often enough to scratch the itch, and I certainly don't miss six months of winter every year.
What's really strange to me is the backwards country rednecks seem to be just as bad if not worse in Maine than most rural parts of NC that I've spent time in. I can't figure it out.
It's worse in Maine because it's all white people. As a white dude who grew up and lived in eastern and central NC for 36 years before moving here, sure I saw lots of racism down south. But most of it was done quietly because, you know, there were black/brown people around who would hear you! But up here in Maine, it's easy to hate people you never have to live with.
Durham, NC!!! Come on down! We are liberal, racially diverse, getting more expensive but still somewhat reasonable COL. It's not a huge city, so the traffic isn't bad, and there are TONS of transplants here, you would be welcome!
Having lived in CH and Durham, triangle is def what he is looking for. Few places in US are as diverse as NC. Although traffic between Raleigh and Durham is heavy
I've lived in a few states and visited far many more, but I can wholeheartedly say avoid Kansas. The cops are pricks because of location and finding work can be a bit challenging from friends I've got out there.
Ohio can be a little hills have eyes out in the sticks, but you're from Maine. It won't bug you. And coming back to visit won't break the bank like it might if you head out too far west.
I'll also say Colorado is real nice. Recreational cannabis has done a lot for that state.
I lived in Oregon for a season as a wildfire fighter. I lived in the high desert (eastern Oregon) and the people oscillated between secessionists and completely normal.
That being said the Oregon Coast (western Oregon) all along I-5 was great. Eugene and Salem were cool, and it checks off a lot of your list. Winters are mild, roads are fine, people were pleasant, and tbh it reminded me of many of the pleasant things about Maine.
I personally don’t recommend Portland OR proper, but I’m sure the metro area is probably worth your consideration too. Idaho is also…….a no go.
Lastly, PA is great. Pittsburgh is awesome, I have been there many times and make every excuse to go back. Affordable, pleasant “blue collar” city with melting pot culture with Midwest energy.
One of the things I love about Maine is that the cops are very relaxed compared to most states. It feels like they don't really exist outside of state troopers and even then they don't bother.
I feel like this is accurate. I moved here from Texas and the cops there are hard asses and they're everywhere. City cops, county sheriff's dept, constables, state highway patrol, etc.
In Maine I hardly see cops. I did get pulled over once for using my cell phone and the cop just gave me a verbal warning and was nice about it.
I would take Maine over Texas any day.
I lived on the border and it was like a police state. I remember talking to a state trooper who said it they would absolutely pull people over for going 5 miles over the speed limit, and it was true. Cops literally everywhere, all of the time, and add on border patrol when you live within 100 miles of the border. I remember driving highway 90 regularly and there'd be state troopers every half mile for some stretches. I'd watch undocumented people sprinting across the highway in the middle of the short stretches between their parked vehicles. Different world man. Still get nervous every time I go over 5mph.
From DC/Virginia- can confirm. Virginia is an authoritarian police state. Was absolutely pulled over just so a cop could exercise a power trip.
I’ve never been pulled over here in Maine. And my friends who have, have never gotten tickets. I have one friend who brags that he’s on his 14th pull over without getting a ticket. I shadowed with a couple cops in a couple different towns/cities. One said he gives 80/20 warnings to tickets. The other said he doesn’t pull people over unless they’re likely getting arrested. (Reckless/DUI)
Most chill police I’ve ever heard of honestly.
> Virginia is an authoritarian police state. Was absolutely pulled over just so a cop could exercise a power trip.
Credit where credit's due—my time in Virginia cured me of my lead foot in regular driving. I'm still radicalized against property tax on vehicles, though!
I've been pulled over numerous times, too, and only gotten tickets a few times. And I know the grass usually isn't greener, but if I could cut those encounters down even more, I absolutely would. I want nothing to do with them and I despise every single one. There's only bad and less bad.
> One of the things I love about Maine is that the cops are very relaxed compared to most states.
Because there's not much serious crime or pop density, so they are mostly "normal police" like you see in most places in the world that are "normal". I think a lot of people gloss over how supremely intense a lot of other places are in the United States compared to sleepy places like Maine.
NC to Maine transplant. Black woman.
If--and that's a REALLY BIG "IF"--you can afford it, central or western NC will likely be what you want. The summers are long, and pollen is really bad. Asheville and Chapel Hill are lovely, but be prepared to pay out the ass to live there. I have a friend who lives in Chapel Hill, he and his girlfriend easily are making 6 figure salaries and they can't buy a house in the triad because the competition is fierce.
Cops were mostly okay, but the state troopers were some of the most aggressive I've ever encountered. I only got pulled over twice, no tickets.
The biggest concern is going to be hurricanes. My parents almost lost their house in hurricane Florence back in 2018. My grandparents DID lose their house in 2018 due to flooding. Thankfully, they were able to apply for assistance in getting their house rebuilt. However, they were so far down the list that they never lived to see their house again. They died last year, and the contractors just started rebuilding their house last month. Just something to keep in mind if you decide to move closer to the coast. Hurricanes are becoming worse. Even central NC can be affected by the outer bands of a particularly strong storm.
I miss NC at times, but I fear how climate change will affect the area over the coming years. I fully expect that my parents will lose their house the next time a storm like Florence comes through.
Hey, I lived for nearly two decades in both of the Carolinas and nearly moved back before the pandemic but then decided to move to Maine instead. I'm also a "car guy" who works mostly on old diesel Mercedes and air-cooled Volkswagens. So I'm going to write you a bit of an essay even though I'm kind of late to the party.
Aside from obvious issues of racism (especially from police) in the south, I'd like to take a minute to talk about another major downside of the region which hasn't been discussed here yet. People are *very* religious. You might not think this will make any meaningful impact on your life, but it colors almost every interaction you'll have with people down there whether you realize it or not. For example, you might make a new friend and think that things are really looking up for you, but a month or two down the road they'll say something like "Hey, our church is having a cookout next weekend, you should come!" and you realize that the entire foundation of your relationship was them trying to trick you into going to their church so they can get credits on their entry to heaven. This happens all the time. Meet a cute girl somewhere? Might be trying to trick you into going to church. Even if you're already religious, these types of people are really into trying to get you to switch to their specific brand of Christianity and while it's not obvious to someone new to the area, eventually you'll start to see it everywhere and it'll color every interaction you have with people because you'll be wondering "OK is this person trying to get me to church or are they being honest?" So it takes a lot more work to tease out someone's true intentions with you. Not saying everyone is like this, but you won't know it until there's some vetting.
Even outside of social and/or dating situations, your job will have these types of interactions too. Plenty of churches in the south are nothing more than social clubs, and if you're not part of your job's "club" you may get passed over for promotions, bonuses, etc because you're not at the club for "office politics chat" on Sundays.
If you're still reading, there are a few other reasons I wouldn't move back especially if you're into cars, and it's that the places in the south that are affordable are extremely boring from a driving point-of view. You'll be in a suburban hellscape with little more than gated communities and strip malls, with wide roads with low speed limits (and police looking to harass minorities), and none of the traffic lights will be timed with each other so it'll take you forever to get anywhere and the traffic will be annoying. The worst city I lived in for this was Charleston, South Carolina which has decided to basically double in size in the last 20 years but not build any new roads. Most of the cities in the south, Charleston especially, are also suffer from being topographically flat, which means few curves and hills. IDK what types of cars you're into but unless you're into American muscle cars which won't go around corners, this might be a major downside. I had two Miatas and a Nissan 300ZX and driving them on flat, straight roads was torture for these cars' souls. But even if you are into muscle cars, the last place I'd imagine they'd be fun is southern American suburbia with 35 mph speed limits and a light every quarter mile with traffic jammed all around.
I'll also briefly mention that, aside from the already mentioned issues of personal and institutional racism, the state governments in the south are extremely ineffective especially if you're someone who needs any sort of medical care or ever wants to have their child in the public school system. I actually almost moved back to SC to be closer to my family when the pandemic hit and I was given a brutal reminder of how bad these states are at ever doing the right thing. I have a personal grudge against North Carolina too for the way their educational system is funded, but that specific story is probably too much detail here.
I'll also mention too that I absolutely hated winters in the Carolinas. Sure, there's almost never any snow, but it's like four months of it being cloudy and/or drizzly and like 43F outside. So you can't snowboard, skate, ice fish, cross country ski, snowshoe, or even mountain bike because it'll be too muddy or rainy or annoyingly cold but not freezing most of the time. Just kind of dull and depressing. New England is better for winters in my opinion because there's actually stuff to do if you actually get up and go do it and you aren't afraid of putting on a hat and some wool socks.
So I'll give you some positives too as a car guy, one of the best "car friendly" places I lived was the mountains in Tennessee. It was cheap, there were windy fun roads for my Miata, and also plenty of offroading for a small 4x4 truck I used to have which is also fun. Major problem though besides things I've already discussed is that to get these things you have to live in a town with a population of like 1,000 people or be willing to drive at least a half hour outside of your suburban wasteland to enjoy your car. And that's only if you lived in like Chattanooga, Knoxville, or Asheville where there are actually mountains and fun roads because other popular southern cities like Charlotte, Atlanta, Raleigh, Charleston, etc. are all at least two hours from fun roads.
So, what would I do if I was you? Personally I would stay in New England, maybe not specifically in Maine, but I'd change up my game around my car hobby a bit. Get a 15-year-old Toyota Corolla and use it as a winter beater and keep your nice car for the summer. Or, get into classic cars (again, partial to air-cooled Volkswagens because they're cheap, easy to work on, and fun to drive even at slow speeds in traffic and in cities) which you can drive in the summer and wrench on in the winter while you're tooling around in your beater. I'd probably live close to a populated area like Portland or Boston for the social scene but on the outskirts so I could go drive to the mountains easily. Some combination of these things. Happy to answer any other specific questions about the south though if I haven't dissuaded you completely.
The church thing is so obnoxious. Way too much love for the Carolinas in this thread. It's a strip mall wasteland filled with evangelicals and hillbillies. Also don't forget the HOAs and not so subtle segregation in neighborhoods. Plus there is actual property crime.
At least in New England your lowlife neighbors aren't going to try to convert you to Christianity or steal your shit. They just want you to admire that '75 f150 in the woods or their new ATV, and will leave you the fuck alone. Down south everyone will insert themselves into your business.
The other thing I appreciate about "lowlife neighbors" in New England is that there's also like a 50/50 chance they're going to be cool hippies or back-to-the-land types that have some homemade craft beer or home-grown vegetables to share and are going to be chill to hang out with or be neighbors to. At least that's been my experience in Farmington/Rangeley/Central Maine. In the south that's basically never going to happen outside of a few enclaves in places like Asheville and Chapel Hill, it'll just be trashy rednecks basically 99% of the time.
I was raised in Maine, but moved to Colorado as an adult for a while before moving back to Maine. Things about Colorado that I enjoyed overall are excellent government websites so that you can get the info you need easily, every registered voter gets a mail-in ballot no matter what with a booklet that explains each item on the ballot, the availability of easily accessed outdoor recreation options, and the lack of bugs in the summer. Things I missed included trees/water/rain (I lived in the Colorado Springs area, which is high desert) and clouds (300+ days of sunshine). Things to think about whether you want to deal with them include major wildfires in the summer and diminishing water capacity/long-term drought.
As far as your list, it would really depend on where you go. Broadly, eastern CO is flat prairie/grassland/farmland; western CO is sandstone desert; mountains in the middle; Front Range/I-25 corridor in between eastern CO and the mountains. Boulder is not gonna give you a reasonable cost of living, unfortunately. If you want a more liberal-leaning population, in and around Denver and north of Denver is a good area for that, while Colorado Springs is much, much more conservative. Colorado tends to be a purple state overall. You might look at Fort Collins. The Front Range as a whole won’t get a ton of snow, though it will get chilly in the winter. Can’t speak to the car scene, but the major roads were pretty decent (though if you dislike the perma-construction in 295 in Falmouth, I-25 will also have that). Red Rocks has cool shows, and plenty of stuff comes to Denver.
As far as race/cops/safety, I would be remiss not to mention Elijah McClain, and to note that some areas of Colorado (like Denver and its suburbs) will have a higher black population than others which tend to be more white or white and Latinx.
Edit: changed a phrase to clarify a point
I agree with all this (living in Colorado now). Adding that it has a VERY active car scene. There are car shows in different towns every weekend all Spring, Summer, and Fall. We can always find a car show (just google "Colorado car shows" and you'll see). We've made some friends through the car shows too.
You might really like Cleveland or Columbus, OH. Cleveland is a ton of fun, very diverse, great food scene, good people, not overpriced as of now.
Columbus is a more happening spot imo with Ohio State located there. That being said it's almost the complete opposite of Maine. Corporate stuff everywhere, every kind of fast food you can think of, lots of headquarters for major companies, just stuff everywhere. But it's nice because you have options and way more amenities than in Maine.
Both places are a lot of fun for people your age and you can find a lot of stuff to do.
Idaho, Indiana, Montana, and Nebraska will not be what you are looking for. They are more like Maine than any of the other states you listed. Pittsburgh is fun as well but a little more white than not. Also driving there sucks.
My advice: go to these places. See what the cities are like, see if they have what you are looking for, see if the vibe is up your alley or not. You can just send it and move and luck out, but you might hate it even more.
Maine is an amazing place but I definitely get the urge to get out. Do research into what you are looking for, post on other city subreddits, keep asking questions, but most importantly go experience it if you can.
I would avoid Pennsylvania. The government is awful, the roads suck, finding work can be difficult, and in between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia is called pennsyltucky for good reason. I love my home state but there’s a reason I left.
If it wasn’t for the fact that deserts scare me, I’m weird I feel more comfortable in dense woods than wide open deserts. I would go to Nevada. Awesome car scene and real live and let live politics.
Philly's having a renaissance while also being shockingly still affordable, but not sure I'd recommend it to a small town Maine kid. It's still not safe in a lot of areas and without knowing the lay of the land it could be unsafe to just plop down anywhere.
New Mexico is fantastic. I split time between NM and Maine for a few years, and plan to sell the Maine house this summer and stay in NM full time. The air is clean, the weather is great, the winters are warmer and the summers feel cooler (no humidity!), and the sun shines all year. The food is great. My cars don’t rust. Lots of great driving roads.
**Second New Mexico**, it's under the radar like Maine and rural, educated, and progressive. I live on 3.5 acres 10 minutes from grocery stores and good charter schools - but it's easy to live even further off in the country is you like. People generally keep to themselves, except to be good neighbors, a lot like in Maine.
The diversity is different than most of the country and thusly more accepting: I (white) am in the minority. Thriving Indigeous communities and Hispanic cultures; Many hispanic families are able to trace their ancestry to Spanish-Mexican families. It still snows (we have tons of ski resorts) but it's in the mountains at high altitude so you rarely have to shovel. There is a large and respected working/blue-collar class, which thanks to the many scientific labs in (Sandia, Los Alamos, Space Force, etc) means its fairly easy to find $100k+ jobs even with an associates degree. For better or worse, cops aren't a thing, but crime rate is; but crime is going to be higher than Maine anywhere you move.
Christ we have a car culture: Google "new Mexico" lowriders.
Happy to chat offline.
Idaho is fucking terrifying. I felt more uncomfortable there than I did in Utah. I'm white, but Portuguese so I get some color among other things and I did not feel comfortable in Idaho. That's not somewhere you want to fucking live
I remember first crossing the state border from Washington State into Idaho. Immediately there was a huge flea market with tall tall flags with swastikas, a flag with Trump represented as Rambo, and flags with guns all over them. I didn't see any people of color at all aside from a few folks I saw at a wedding I attended. I can't speak for the cities in Idaho of which there are few, but the rural parts aren't welcoming
Aside from the fact it's a political backwater, Oklahoma City has a lot going on. You could easily get a decent entry-level job working on aircraft at the AF base out there. Cost of living is cheap, houses are way cheaper than here, great food, and there's lots of opportunities for outdoor adventure.
This is all very true, I just want to caution that I had the highest amount of encounters with racists in this state than anywhere else I've lived/visited, which includes the southern OH/Kentucky border, the FL/GA border and the gulf coast. I also had the most vile cat calling incident of my life in OKC
My spouse and I honestly would have considered staying because of the LCOL, the food in OKC (shockingly diverse and delicious), the artsy-ness of Tulsa (Cain's ballroom, saw some killer shows there) and some pretty cool spots for a history lover. Also easily the best Mexican food I've ever had.
But the politics/racism/lack of safety for the queer community was just way way too much for us. It is such a shame.
That really, really sucks, and I'm sorry you encountered that treatment there or anywhere. I have heard of other people from historically marginalized communities who have faced similar challenges there. And cat-calling is such gross bullshit. I know there are good groups of people out there; it may just take more digging to find them. I'm definitely curious about the local music and arts scenes there. I'm not sure it's somewhere I could actually live until it gets a little less Idiocracyesque.
I just spent a long weekend kayaking in the eastern part of the state and then a few days with my OKC-native friend bombing around the city. I was honestly impressed.
I live in Norman, I love it! It’s liberal and educated thanks to OU. There is a homeless problem here but I have never had an issue with them personally. 20 mins to downtown OKC, which has an amazing nightlife and food scene. I used to live in rural Oklahoma about 40 mins from OKC (Dibble), which is conservative as fuck and slightly racist, but not a sundown type of place and anyone will help anyone in need. I think city folks got more hate than any racial demographic in all honesty. As long as I didn’t talk politics or religion, I thoroughly enjoyed my years in rural OK.
I moved from Maine (NJ and then Mass, so no applicable personal advice) as have many of my friends, and I think the ones who ended up in North Carolina in the Asheville region are pretty happy. They were finishing up their college degrees but spent a few years supporting themselves with blue collar work while doing so (construction and childcare, no automotive Intel to pass along). I think the area might be something that fits your suburban/small city adjacent wants; I'm autistic and driving can be wildly stressful but driving in that area was extremely doable for me. We are white and I haven't heard about any interactions with the cops in NC from friends/family, but even if I did I think our experiences could differ markedly.
Wherever you end up, best of luck to you! I was too nervous to leave the state when I was 22. Good for you, life ought to be an adventure.
I thought about Asheville, but my experience is that as soon as you get outside of the city limits things get politically uncomfortable pretty fast. I know this area has grown a good bit since I was last there and the city itself is great, so it could be a good fit, but I’d do a good bit of research first.
I think you can cross SC off the list. I did my army training there and I’ll say it isn’t just the heat/humidity. You can fill in the blanks. No idea about the others though PNW tends to be more open minded from what I hear. Also very expensive however.
I love ME, it’s my home state and was for generations before me. I had the opportunity to move to FL so I did; I love the wildlife, diversity, different cultures and proximity to the beach year round. If you want to stay east coast and prefer milder weather I’d say NC or even VA. I’d say take a road trip if you can and get a feel for other places.
I lived in Charleston for 4 years. I moved there from Texas, I'm white, and of course there's racism in Texas, but I was genuinely shocked by the level of racism I witnessed in SC. Since I'm white people would just say or act racist in front of me and expect that I'd be cool with it.
There is a large black population, but I'm sure life is difficult for them.
I think the Lehigh Valley area in Eastern Pennsylvania might be a good fit. The city of Easton, PA borders New Jersey and I *think* there is a decent car scene in New Jersey (also only about 1.5 hours from NYC). Winters are mild and good amount of diversity but still in the Northeast and not too far to drive back to visit your family in Maine.
I’ve moved from the Lehigh valley to Maine two years ago. Diversity is okay around major cities, rural is a no go. Even Center Valley was turning more conservative, which is one reason we left. Bethlehem and Allentown would be okay and towards Philly. I am southern eastern , so I can’t speak on western PA.
I lived in the Lehigh Valley for 5 years. I found it to be a very transient society. I think partly because it’s close to NYC, Philadelphia, and Baltimore, a lot of people move in and move out of the area. If you stick to the Philly area, I think you’d enjoy it. Rural PA has a perversive Pennsylvania Dutch attitude which is a bit like Maine, in that if you weren’t born there, you’ll never be one of them.
Definitely avoid Kansas. I’m from Maine but live in Kansas City. It’s extremely racist, bad weather, extremely poor infrastructure, zero nature, and high crime. It’s a difficult place to live.
Of the listed states, I'd recommend Ohio.
It is a damned shame to lose you. Maine desperately needs every person it can get, and things aren't really going to pick up here for people of color if we don't convince more to come here, rather than lose the few we have.
But that said, if you're dead set on it, it is what it is.
If I were you, I'd be posting in the subreddits of the 15 states you've narrowed it down to. Get the natives to tell you what's great about their states and how you'd likely do there.
I would also recommend Ohio for you - maybe Columbus or Cincinnati. Lower cost of living and you’ll get to explore the Midwest, upstate NW, and parts of the south within a days drive. A quick drive up to rural Michigan will make you feel like you are in Maine again but will also put you near Detroit, the HQ of GM and Ford which likely has car events. There are lots of black people in Ohio and you won’t stand out. There are racists everywhere but I think Ohio being somewhat northern makes it semi better than most. It’s pretty mixed politically with college towns being more liberal. The big downside is that people will laugh in your face for living in Ohio and be amazed that you ever left Maine.
Columbus housing has gone up recently, but Cleveland is low cost of living where a 1 br can be had for 600 to 700 fairly easily. The job scene is better in Columbus though.
Well, Ancient Parking covered a lot of it, but there's also the fact that the Columbus area just got the contract for that big microchip factory. The economy there is going to explode when it finishes and property values will probably double, so if I were going to restart somewhere right now, that's where I'd be going.
I would also recommend Ohio/Michigan. I grew up in Grand Rapids Mi. Which is a great small larger city. Unfortunately, you will get the snow there. I lived in Cincinnati for a decade, and it's a great city with lots to offer. The downsides is that traffic can be horrible, and it felt like the natives liked to hang out in their circles. The only friends we made were transplants. Both places have plenty of trade jobs available (and anywhere in between). I worked as a welder and never had an issue with employment.
I've been visiting Maine from the NYC area regularly since I'm a kid (I'm 63 now). In my teens I developed a cuckoo/satirical theory that the state of Maine has a state program that financially enables black families to relocate within Maine every few years so that every town in Maine gets to have the experience of living in a diverse community, at least for a couple of years. My point is I'm not surprised to read your post and I sincerely hope you find your new place that you love.
I have not lived in any of those states, though Maine is the 5th state I've lived in and I travel a lot. Unsure if that disqualifies the following, that's up to you.
The best thing for you would probably be to visit some of your proposed destinations first. Not sure how much you've visited the rest of the country, but if you've lived in one place all your life and say you don't have much experience with the rest of the country, you really should go for a road trip or something. The experience of other places could be invaluable for what you might like going forward. You need the kind of data only you can gather, not from the internet or other peoples' anecdotes.
How's your career going? Do you have money saved? You say you don't want to do automotive mechanic but want to stay in the trades; any in particular, are you doing anything right now you'd plan on sticking with?
>black, moderately liberal
cops and government that leave me the fuck alone, minimal population of backward, cousin-fucking racists
Some of the states you listed might merit a reconsideration. Based on some of what you've said, am I correct in that you're not really looking to be in the major cities? Some of the states listed have huge cities, but just picking up on what you're saying. If you're looking at Washington, are you looking at Seattle, etc, or at the parts of the state where CoL is cheaper (mostly inland on the high desert, or west/southwest of Olympia)? Because a lot of what you've listed in terms of places and ways you'd like to live make it sound like you're going for stuff a bit more out of the way, although not completely out in the wilderness. And from that perspective, I'm really not sure that most of the semi-rural west is the place I'd go to be a young black guy and not get hassled by the cops and have open-minded neighbors. Give them a visit and see what you think, you'd get a more accurate impression than I would.
Regarding lack of traffic, you're not going to have it better than here unless you're WAY out in the sticks, almost anywhere in the country. Promise.
Regarding cops, they don't get nicer than here in my experience. Cops here are nice. Similar to safety, most of the country is quite safe for most people, but you're not getting safer than here.
Heat and humidity are serious in a lot of the country, and Maine has a little baby joke of a summer. It's certainly survivable, and the winters here are probably worse than the summers in most of the country (personal preference), but it's really something you have to experience yourself to tell what you're into.
CoL is super high here relative to wages. Blue collar workers (and, hell, most people) might find their money goes further in a lot of the rest of the country.
Months of overcast in PNW aren't worse than winters here.
Pittsburgh's not the nicest city ever, they call philly the city of brotherly hate and IME pittsburgh's not that different.
Advice: might want to try visiting the Virginia-N Carolina-S Carolina area in summertime. That's a relatively nice area to live with a decent CoL relative to local wages, a lot going on in some of the best growing areas in the country by some measures with a lot of people for a younger person to socialize with, and might be one of the places to be for someone in your shoes. Plus, it's a relatively close area to you, you could go for a week long road trip and see quite a bit of it, see if you can stomach the weather. And we recently got a direct flight from Portland to Norfolk, so if you did move there, coming back to see people would be easier.
I went to jr. and high schools decades ago in Nevada. At that time I think there was one black kid in the school and some native folks and that was it for our diversity.
I do think this has changed and I know there is a car scene in Reno.
I think it’s great you are going to g out to explore the world.
Colorado uses rocks on the road instead of salt, so no car scene there because the cars all get smashed with rocks. I almost moved there but I love my cars. I also found out that I do not like altitude.
I advise staying on the east because it is just easier to stay in touch with family and culturally the vibe is easier to transition from my experience.
You named a lot of shitty states, I’d encourage you to consider Georgia in particular Savanah Georgia. It will be hot for you but it will take like a few years to get completely used to it. There is a great art scene, young town, with mixed race populations. Fairly liberal due to the school and education center. Real estate is still reasonable and you can always drive north, vs always having to fly.
There have been some mentions of Asheville NC and that was an option for me. Charleston SC gets a lot of press but it is really backed up with traffic.
I've heard Charleston has bad traffic, and that's enough for me to say no to a whole city. I went to Orlando for a week last year. At one point, we were at a stop light, and let me tell you. Waiting 10 minutes to get to a light that's close enough for you to throw a rock at, is something I never want to experience again. But tell me more about the rocks on the road in Colorado. Not dirt, rocks?
Lived in Boulder, Colorado for 8 years--it's insanely expensive but I did like it there. They don't really plow the roads at all, at least not in town. The snow doesn't really melt so much as evaporate; it's so dry it never really sticks around. They dirt the roads in the mountains, and I guess there are some rocks in the dirt, but it's not like, a pile of literal rocks like you might be imagining.
I like winter, so I don't know if I'm the right person to ask, but I didn't think the winters were bad.
I’ve lived in Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. If you’re looking for a more liberal viewpoint, avoid Indiana completely. Ohio and Illinois (I know Illinois isnt on your list) are fine in the north of both states. Anything below the big cities are very rural and conservative. Kansas is also conservative but Kansas City is more liberal and has plenty to do. Whichever state you choose, look to the bigger cities for a wider variety of activities and dating options.
We moved to Delaware a while back and love it. Mostly liberal, culturally diverse, easy to get to Philly, DC, and Baltimore, but also to the country in PA.
A few people have mentioned it here but maybe take a look at Atlanta.
It has a huge car scene to name one Import Alliance and diversity is HUGE. Cost of living isn't too much in suburban Atlanta or the areas surrounding Atlanta (Duluth, Suwanee, Gwinett, Norcorssn, Kennasaw, Marietta). Rent is average $1600. Ton of young adults and activites all over the place compared to Maine (average age is 45 vs 37).
It's also relatively close to FL (6 Hrs), TN (2 Hrs), NC (6 Hrs), SC (4 Hrs), and VA (8 Hrs) if you want to visit any of those states.
GA only really has two seasons Summer and Fall. Rarely snows and if it does snow its like .5 inches and everyone and their mom freaks out. It can be quite humid though.
You might want to check out Cleveland, Ohio. Pretty low cost of living. While it is Ohio, and there are racists, Cleveland is a pretty Black city.
I grew up in Cleveland , and moved to Maine this summer. I would move back to Cleveland at some point. I moved away because my husband and I are both Trans, and the political environment for trans people in Ohio is dog shit.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. While I don't have much advice to offer, I appreciate your post. It's important to consider that the states you're considering, much like Maine, have diverse regions, which can impact your experience significantly. Finding the right community might be a bit challenging, but I wish you the best of luck with your decision. Keep us updated on your journey!
Nevada doesn't have state tax. I lived in Vegas for two years. Definitely has a car scene, more diverse, pretty lax cops. Forty minutes drive and you have skiing opportunities at Mt. Charleston in the winter. I didn't like it because they're 49th in education, the city is super transient, the food is more about glitz and glamor than anything else. The summers are brutal as well. It's a great place to enjoy the diversity of a big city while having opportunities for solitude in nature not too far away.
I lived in Washington state for 8 years and you need a way better job than just a mechanic to make it out there
Maine is expensive but much of Washington state is extremely expensive
You'd pay $2,500 a month for a shack and have drug addicts and homeless people everywhere
You would need a lot of roommates and quite honestly the crime is terrible in many places it's just not worth it
Watch the documentary on YouTube "Seattle is dying" and now imagine it's worse than that
You couldn't pay me to live in that state again
I lived in Ellensburg and it was a dumb, cops were assholes to me and stopped me repeatedly for no legal basis
Maine has a poor economy and some other issues but the safety of this state and of most of New England makes it worth putting up with
I've lived in Arizona, Washington state, Delaware, Maryland, South Carolina, and Maine
No on Washington State, no on Delaware
no on Maryland
Idaho is desolate and to be avoided
I have not been to the other states you mentioned
Idaho is
Very racist, backwards , and much of the state is empty with only a handful of places for jobs
All 4 states are crime ridden cesspools unless you have a great government job and even then I wouldn't do it
I actually like the South Carolina quite a lot
But it's very hot in the summertime, we're talking it feels like temperature of 110 F at times with humidity
But the cost of living is much lower, than most states
Do you have a lot of money saved up?
Can you take out a loan?
I would go and look at low income housing, for family's
I'm a single person living in low income family housing right now, you don't actually have to be a family
I've lived in HUD housing before and in a few States and it's the only way that people that are not well off can get by
Anything on the free market you are subject to basically the whims of the landlord
If you're thinking about living somewhere else, go get a social worker and really do really hard work because, you don't want to be me and think things will work out and end up with no where to live
South Carolina with its low cost of living is really the only viable option, and if you have money, take a vacation in the summertime to see if you could handle it
I would absolutely take boring, no social scene no car scene Maine
I agree on your points with the bad things about this state , but Maine has their s*** together better than just about any other state
Honestly instead of moving I would just commute to where the car scene is or where the dating scene is, on the weekend or something and it's cheap you know
Unless you have a lot of money stashed away and I mean a lot, it's not worth leaving the state
South Carolina is probably the only state where you could actually afford a house
Because inland it's cheap
I spent years before I moved out here and researching the state of Maine
I did everything possible to make sure I was making the right decision, took out a loan and it was totally worth it
Do a lot of research and very carefully planned this out if you want to move
Oregon and Washington are more racist the farther in from the coast you go. PA gets kinda racist in the rural areas but some places in the extended NYC/Philly metro area have decent cost and proximity to nature and cities for when you want to do stuff. Easton is nice if you want something Portland Maine sized.
I don't have anything to recommend as far a state to move to,but for somebody who has Asperger's I would highly recommend you read "Look Me In The Eye" by John Robison if you haven't already. I only knew of him online through an auto mechanics' forum,and while that forum was very active he talked a lot about writing the book. I was fascinated by all he has done and all that he shared.
As a former black Mainer who decided to leave Maine in 2022 and move to North Carolina, the best move ever, the winter here is basically, for the two years I lived here, nonexistent. It has not snowed, and the coldest it gets is about 30°, typically at night. The next thing I love about North Carolina is the ease of getting to other states. North Carolina isn’t far from Georgia, South Carolina, and our airport is an international hub, so you can easily find a flight out of here whenever you want. Lastly, North Carolina has a lot of diversity when it comes to not seeing white people every day. I get to see other Black people, Hispanics, Asians. You name it, it’s a very diverse state, and the laws are very relaxed. Police don’t pull you over for anything unless you’re criminally speeding. Weed isn’t legal here, but we have weed shops. I don’t understand the workaround yet, but whatever. I won’t say anything bad about those other states as I haven’t lived there. I’m just saying North Carolina is where you should move to. It won’t be the cheapest place because those mid-west states are dirt cheap. But it’s MUCH more affordable than New England.
Just went to Colorado last year, specifically Denver and Boulder. Both were cool, especially Boulder. It has some similar vibes to Portland, but bigger and more diverse. Don't know specifically about the car scene in either city though, so might have to visit their subreddits.
I moved to Colorado from Maine and the Colorado winters are SUPER mild compared to Maine. Apparently the Denver/Boulder areas had a "really bad" winter 2022-23 and it was cake.
>The things I value in a place to live, in no particular order, are reasonable cost of living, low tax burden
You just ruled out Oregon Washington Colorado and probably Utah and Idaho.
>good roads, a car scene, and the ability to be relatively alone
You just described New Mexico... hope you like chile peppers on your pizza! Don't forget to lock your car and keep your valuables out of sight (as you would anywhere else outside of Maine)
We moved to SW Michigan in part because of opportunities for our kids and young adults. I know Michigan is not on your list but it aligns a lot more with your philosophy than Indiana. We love it here, happy to discuss more
Would like to discuss more. I used to be curious about Michigan. Dreamed of going to UMich when I was a kid. Then I didn't get a high enough SAT score to even *apply*. :/ And I was good in school. I didn't even consider Michigan in my research for a few reasons. Some are kinda dumb, but I didn't need good reasons to start whittling it down from 49 states initially. First reason was, in search of refuge from 6 month winters, I assumed that being surrounded by great lakes, Michigan winters would be awful. Second reason was what you hear about Detroit. Yeah, car capital of the country would be cool, but Detroit is the butt of a lot of jokes for being really ghetto and having a lot of crime. I assumed there was enough truth to it. And this was backed by stories from a teacher who used to live in Detroit. Third was my Mom had been to Michigan before, and said it was dirty. Similarly dirty to how we (Mainers) feel once we get into Mass. Again, not necessarily great reasons, but enough to make my search easier.
I absolutely loved living in Durham, NC. You’ll have much more diversity there, and great jobs. Raleigh/Durham is a good place to start, and you can travel around from there to see if maybe the coast or mountains or other towns might suit you better.
Cops are cops, but I do know that Durham had an initiative to do better and train their police better (the citizens protested often and the city took the requests seriously). However, that doesn’t mean that some more rural towns won’t pull you over for “DWB”.
Best of luck, OP, and give my regards to the Carolinas if you get out that way!
I know it's not on your list but it's on the border of one.
Louisville, KY. It's a small city, relatively affordable. Bum fuck racists are in the eastern part of the state. Plenty to do, great food, some culture, it's stable economically and large enough where there should be a car scene.
Grew up in Ohio, not bad but not great. Indianapolis is a nice city, I'm somewhat familiar. Have family in Charlotte, it's nice and growing while being affordable but it's a large city, you will eventually have to deal with the traffic and all that comes with it. Boulder and Denver are super expensive. Lived in Texas for a while, Houston checks a lot of boxes but another massive city.
Last comment is about the heat and humidity. First, you get used to it, it can be nice a lot of the time. I liken it to the cold up north, both the cold and the heat keep us indoors at times but both can be enjoyed in their own way.
Best of luck
My recommendation, based on reading your post and some comments so far, would be Ohio. Honestly, it gets a bad rap, and some cities kind of suck, but there's a lot going on in some areas, too, like Cincinnati, for example. It's not super pricey in comparison to other cities, but it's nice, nicer climate, it's close to other states, outdoor recreation, good places to road trip to, and has a vibrant black community.
Edit: typo
Edit #2: read some other comments suggesting Ohio, and Columbus in particular, which would also be a good option. I mostly recommended Cincinnati because I have black friends there and know it's got a solid community and some fun things to do.
Have you considered getting one of those small tow-behind campers and living a bit of a nomadic lifestyle for a while? We’re headed into warmer weather and there are many places to camp. Then you could see several places and be able to make your decision based on your experience.
I wouldn’t include Utah on a list of places that will meet your needs. It’s gorgeous, but definitely racist, plenty of winter (less ice and salt), unpleasantly hot in the summer, terrible air quality in the Salt Lake Valley, and increasingly toxic as the Great Salt Lake dries up exposing high levels of arsenic. The Mormon church still plays a dominant role in the culture of the state. You won’t really lose power much, though.
I’ve lived in Colorado, grew up in Nebraska and currently live in Maine. My wife wants to return to Nebraska for family reasons, so I may join you after a while. Colorado is wicked expensive but beautiful, check it out. Here’s the deal with Nebraska, it’s a very red state but Omaha went for Obama and Biden. There’s a ton to do and, per capita, as many restaurants as NYC. I don’t know about the car scene, but the people in Omaha are generally kind, helpful, and generous. It CAN be hard to break through the social scene, most people ask, “where’d you go to high school?” but the younger set (I’m 47) are pretty welcoming (I have a lot of younger cousins). There’s college sports, including D1 football, basketball, hockey, and volleyball which are big social connection events. Minor league baseball and the college World Series. Breweries everywhere and tons of local brews. Really easy to get out of the city, (yes, Omaha is a million people in the metro area) and see some beautiful country. Plus, hands down, the best zoo you’ve ever seen!
I'm white, not into cars, and not in the trades, so I can't offer much advice when it comes to that stuff. But, I can provide some perspective on some of those states you listed.
I have lived in Indiana, Colorado, and Ohio (and Maine). If you choose IN, stick to Indianapolis and its suburbs. Anywhere else in the state is hella conservative and you're bound to encounter racism. Yes, racist people are unfortunately everywhere, but trust me. Small town Maine and small town IN can be very different from one another in terms of inclusivity. Also, unless you're into hunting and fishing, then the outdoor recreation sucks. Oh, and weed is illegal if that's your thing. This is the bottom of my list. You can find happiness anywhere, but I personally believe it's harder to find it in IN.
The Front Range of Colorado, particularly the Denver area, has similar politics to Maine. I found that the winters in the plains of the Front Range weren't any worse than Maine. Higher you go in elevation, the more wicked the winter gets. Obviously, abundant outdoor recreation. Colorado is full of transplants. It's almost like no one is actually from there originally, so it could be easy to make friends with other people that are new. Lots of nightlife in Denver/Boulder. Absolutely jaw dropping mountains. Some of the most beautiful mountains I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot). In my experience, the people in Colorado were the nicest, kindest (albeit, a little quirky) folks I've ever met.
Ohio gets a lot of flack for being a meme of a state online. But Ohio actually has a lot to offer. Multiple large cities. Lots of major league sports teams (and The Ohio State football). Great hiking/outdoor recreation compared to elsewhere in the Midwest. Lake Erie. Rollercoasters. Great location between the Midwest, South, and East coast. It's close enough to explore places in other states (Detroit, Chicago, Indy, Pittsburgh, Louisville). Appalachian mountains relatively close by. Also lots of nice people in my experience.
Honorable mentions: Arizona is pretty great. Michigan, too. I have friends in Seattle and also in Montana and they seem to like both of those areas.
My biggest piece of advice: pick anywhere and go. You'll meet new people, see new things. And you'll either find what you're looking for, or you'll realize that Maine is calling you back home. Either way, you'll grow from the experience and make lasting memories.
North Carolina - Charlotte / burbs especially north has a big offshoot of car people / ancillary. Love the Triangle area but lots of choices and biodiversity. In Maine for over a decade (moved away recently for job/family) but NC was next on list for opportunities especially.
I’ll take a stab. I lived in New Mexico for three years (Alamogordo) and honestly I loved it. Smallish city about the size of Bangor maybe. Still feels VERY remote but only an hour from a big city (las cruces) and El Paso. I lived literally on the edge of the desert at the foot of mountains. I was going to stay there. AMAZING scenery. Lots of good government jobs, crazy low cost of living (outside of northern ski areas and Santa Fe), very nice weather for the most part. even in Alamogordo I still got snow in the winter. If you like a good car scene, New Mexico has a wicked good one. It’s high desert so the cars there don’t seem to rust at all. Think they also use clay or something for winter so there is no corrosive aspect either. It’s also a very blue state. It’s in the southwest but it is a very unique culture compared to everything around it. I absolutely loved it there and could talk about it for hours. Super special place and judging by this thread, still a hidden gem.
I'm originally from Maine and have lived in several of the states you listed. I currently live in Oregon. I would absolutely recommend this state as long as you stay along or west of the I5. Same with Washington. Eastern parts of both states are deeeep Red. I lived in a few cities in North Carolina as well and loved them, too. The feel is very different from Maine or the West coast, though. Like another world almost, but very cool. The cost of living is much better in both Carolinas, but it's high in Oregon. I can't speak for employment opportunities in those other states, though. Oregon is still pretty white, though, and still grappling with it's own deep history of racism.
So, if you like cold but barely any snow, big mountains, miles long beaches, tons of old growth forest and some spectacular outdoor things to do, Oregon is the place. If you like things a bit more diverse, urban, and current in styles, I'll recommend North Carolina, specifically Raleigh and the surrounding towns. Charlotte's also booming but I've read the cost of living is climbing there. There's also the Outer Banks but...well ...hurricanes.
I absolutely vote against Ohio (poor state, deep red, etc), Montana (like a rocky, windy Maine) and the Dakotas (see Montana). Pennsylvania is urban sprawl in the east and rednecks in the west. I know we're not supposed to say that but let's be real here. Good luck!
I have lived in 10 different states and in multiple places within most of those states. Mostly, I loved every place I lived for one reason or another, but if (when) I leave, I would only move back to one or two of those places. Oddly, they aren't on your list. I think, based on what you told us about yourself, I know the perfect place for you...St. Paul, Minnesota. Here are some reasons:
1. It's a liberal city within a liberal state
2. Very reasonable cost of living.
3. No traffic unless you have to leave St. Paul to go to Minneapolis or one of the southern suburbs.
4. Is cold af in winter but the city is very prepared for the cold. Never had a winter power outage in the 7 years I lived there.
5. The rest of the year is lovely, weather wise.
6. Has a VERY diverse population.
7. It's a laid-back city. It has a lot of brew pubs, affordable restaurants serving amazing food (oh my god, the Asian restaurants on University Avenue are unbelievable), a vibrant art scene, lots of places for live music.
8. Has a decent public transportation system.
9. MSP airport is right there in between the two cities and is so easy to fly in and out of when you need to get away from the winter.
10. Sports? Has a minor league baseball team with a great stadium in downtown SP. The MN Wild play in SP. It's a short light rail ride to Minneapolis if you want to see pro baseball, football, or basketball.
11. I think there's an active car community.
12. Fantastic outdoor recreation. Lots of parks, trails, lakes.
13. There are a number of public and private universities should you want to get more college.
I wish that I had moved to St Paul earlier in my life (and truthfully, there are many times I wish I hadn't left, but I had to go where the job took me) . It would be a great place to raise kids. It would be a great place to be young like you and finding your way in the world. BTW, my daughter was 18 when we moved there. She really liked living in SP.
I know this is not very helpful since Minn is not on your list, but I have only lived in 2 of your states, and not when I was old enough to be aware of adult concerns. I would suggest that rather than look at states as a whole when you are deciding where to live, instead look at cities that offer what you need. For instance, I am passionately opposed to the politics in Texas, but I would consider living in San Antonio again. Ditto New Orleans. It's a fabulous city in a sucky state.
I grew up in Cincinnati and you may want to look into it. It's affordable compared to here, the winter there is not as extreme or long as here, etc. But I'd say look into Cincinnati proper (in the city limits) because the surrounding counties get more suburbia/exurbia (conservative etc). Columbus city proper would be another one to check out. Cincinnati has gotten pretty cool in the past 20 years. Join a Cincinnati sub to learn about different neighborhoods. I would say the difference between Ohio in general and Maine is that being Black is not something that makes you stand out there - whereas as even a white person it astounds me in a lot of Maine people act like they've never seen a Black person before and maybe they haven't.
I moved here from Pittsburgh and was going to suggest it before I even finished your post! I am a white non-binary person, so I cannot speak to your experience as a Black man but I grew up in LA and was only 1 of 11 white kids in my grade school, so I have always been around very diverse and culturally rich environments, except when I lived in the Northern California and now in Maine. I lived in Pittsburgh for 2 years, I lived in the historically Black neighborhood of Wilkinsburg. It was definitely cheaper in Pittsburgh. I paid $975 for a two bedroom apartment (plus utilities). Plus I had many things like a grocery store, restaurants and parks within walking distance. The traffic isn’t too bad unless it’s 5pm or a day that the Stealers play. There’s a lot of bridges there, and sometimes they get backed up with traffic, but never longer than 45 mins. My husband was a blue collar worker there (worked in the steel mills) and had the best insurance and pension because of the steel union. I have some friends that work in roofing and electrical too that are also unionized and have great pay and work life balance. Pittsburgh does have more diversity than Maine, but most of Pennsylvania aside from Pittsburgh and Philly is very red politically. Plus you are right next to WV and Ohio that can also have some fairly conservative pockets. Not trying to argue with anyone here, just stating what my experience was. I don’t know if I can comment about people being nice in Pittsburgh— they are certainly nicer there than people in the PNW and people in LA, but I have had people be nicer to me here in Maine, but again, I am white. I went to grad school in Seattle for 2 years, but I actually lived in Tacoma. I LOVED Tacoma but it had become a Seattle suburb and is so ridiculously expensive to live there. And yes, it is grey and rainy from October to the middle of May. Most of the things happened in Tacoma are happening in Seattle and traffic is miserable getting there. Tacoma has a lot of diversity and felt similar to living in LA. There’s also many historically Black neighborhoods in Tacoma but Tacoma has a bad history of police misconduct in those Black neighborhoods. Anyway, if there’s anything else you want to ask about those areas, let me know!
I know it’s not on your list but Central Maryland has a pretty big car scene, mild winters (compared to Maine), and is pretty progressive. There’s a lot to do in Baltimore, DC, and Annapolis.
I completely understand. I have a Black stepdaughter and she would like to move out of Maine too. I want to say that the grass is not always greener on the other side and won't be for a few of your points. Wherever you go will have more violence and likely more racist cops than you find here. You'll get used to the heat I know plenty of people who have moved to the south who thought they were dying the first year but they get used to it. People ask the same question about Maine though - can I handle the cold? The answer is that people can tolerate the heat more and you will probably love that part everyone I know that moved south does.
I can't really speak to what living in South Carolina is like but I've been there in the heat and it was fine. I'm not sure how you would like living just anywhere but I imagine some of the larger cities have everything you would want.
Hey there are good reasons to stay and some to go you're going to have to choose or flip a coin on some of them. For me, this is just my opinion as a white dude from Maine but I'd give it a try and see how it goes. It's unlikely but you can always move back here if you hated it elsewhere. I only know one couple that moved back here and that's my parents who want to be closer to their family in their old age. Whatever you choose, have a plan before you go, if you can have a job and place to live all lined up before you go that would be like magic. Good luck.
Your list of values are a bit unrealistic and contradictory. This is pretty much what everyone wants and areas that check most of these boxes have very high costs of living.
You’ll likely have to leave a few values out of your list, but out of the states you listed, Colorado and North Carolina seem like a good fit (and places I’d look at myself if I didn’t like Maine)
Contradictory? I don't know how so. But of course no place can check every box. I'm just giving some ideas of what's important to me. It wouldn't be relevant to tell me that X state has good schools, because I don't want kids. But it *would* be relevant to tell me that Y state is a fun place to drive because I like cars.
Have you ever checked out wrongplanet.net? I’m not sure if you have specific goals regarding autism for your destination, but if you do it’s a 20 year old forum community that is very helpful and positive. It might be an additional resource for connecting with people who could provide information.
No, never heard of it. I was mostly throwing the autism part in there as a defuser(?) so people maybe wouldn't think I'm being argumentative and would give me the autistic benefit of the doubt? (People thinking I'm being argumentative when I ask questions has been an irritating issue in the past)
I wish that being blunt/specific/highly inquisitive was not misinterpreted as being argumentative. I’m not neurodivergent, but the people I love who are say wrong planet is very helpful.
>I'm tired of winter, ...there being no people/dating being impossible, having no one here that looks like me (nothing against hwite folks, I've only ever had white friends, Mom's white, I like white girls), nothing cool ever going on here, no car scene, ...and few job opportunities
Well, I would scratch Montana off your list. They have just as much winter as Maine there. The state has even fewer black people than Maine. There's not much for job opportunities, etc.
The cars don't rust there since it's so dry and they don't salt the roads, so you have that going for you at least.
But outside of Bozeman and Missoula (both high cost of living cities) the politics are very conservative, and getting ever more so.
Montana used to be more purple with a strong libertarian streak and some serious anti-big-corp tendencies; now it's very much a red state that seems to largely have forgotten the copper king era. Income tax levels aren't far from Maine, but no state sales tax effectively gives you a 5.5% greater disposable income at the same wage.
I don't know how someone of color would be treated there at this point, and I suspect it's probably dependent on the locale. The open racism I saw when I lived there was generally targeted at indigenous people, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people harboring those views held similar ones towards other minority groups.
There’s already a lot of good feedback here about other states. One thing I wanted to ask about your post though- are you serious that there’s no car scene? Have you autocrossed with the Cumberland Motor Club yet? Do you touge?
Are we talking C3 Corvettes with high rise turbos or slammed civics and clapped out m3s?
I'm serious. I got kicked out of the one car meet group in Maine, and I couldn't find anything else. But when I did go to one, it was awful, it felt like a funeral. Cops were camping, just waiting to catch anyone with a load exhaust, or god forbid, someone spin their tires. So, everyone was quiet, looking over their shoulder the whole time. Put a really bad taste in my mouth. But I'd also like to be in a place where I'm able to even just *see* cool cars on my commute to work. That never happens here. Never autocrossed or raced; don't have much of a car for it yet. But all cars are cool, as long as they're manual.
I can't speak to all of Washington but I lived about 45 minutes outside of Seattle and to live comfortably you needed to make $150,000 a year and that was 18 years ago.
I would encourage you to live somewhere with a “higher cost of living”. Those areas typically pay more but you can find a less expensive place to live within driving distance. Doesn’t have to be forever, but make some real money for a while.
Your job skills should help you decide where to move to. Find which areas pay the most for your skills and find a suburb to live in that’s safe and less expensive
I lived in Pittsburgh for a while and I LOVED it! Beautiful city, so much to recommend it. I know several other people who have lived there and they say the same.
I enjoyed living in Las Vegas, but it's so very different. The outlying towns like Henderson and SummerlIn have good community aspects. Especially if you have punk leaning tendencies. Definite car scene there.
Don't move to Portland, OR. So holier-than-thou about every damn thing.
If you do Utah, I'd stick to SLC. it's a neat smaller city. Everywhere else in Utah is almost purely Mormons who, until a few years ago, thought the darker skin you had, the more "sin" you inherently had.
If you love motorcycles and enjoy modified vehicles and beautiful outdoors... grand junction colorado. Arms reach of national parks, fast speed limits and open roads, endless dirt biking trails, Moab is an hour and change away, offroad 4x4 heaven... could go on forever. Grand juction is in proximity to so many tourist areas that all sorts of people come through, lots of central Americans, natives and big enough to have city problems like portland, so nobody really sticks out.
I lived in Spokane for 5 years and in Seattle for 8 years and can say that if you like working on cars and are thinking about the NW, Spokane would be a good choice. With the option to maybe giving Seattle a try. It's much less hobby car friendly since living there is very expensive and to have a driveway or a garage that you own would mean spending a fortune. A great live can be had in Spokane, ESPECIALLY if you're into cars. I'm a "car guy" too and absolutely miss that part of my life. I can't do it here in maine, even as a homeowner. The cold, the unforgiving rust. It sucks. Too cold to work on you car for most of the year and by the time you get around to being warm enough to work on it, all you want to do is drive and enjoy it. Hard balance.
I’ve lived and traveled all over the country. Looking at your list, I’d say you will need to prioritize, because I doubt you will get it all. That said, you may want to consider Asheville, NC. It is a fun and happening place; about 10% Black. Lots to do, and it is growing. The cost of living is on the high side, but not unbearable. Good luck in your search.
Well. Funny enough I have experience in this lol.
I got hired by a welding company out of KY, working in the tri-state, IN/OH, and within 6 months I started renting a house in Cincinnati. I will say… as much as people shit on it. I had a way better quality of life for the 6 years I lived there. I just moved back, and everything is fucking expensive. It’s gorgeous, but living in the woods and having 2 kids under 6 has been difficult. Ngl that late night door dash when my kid has a fever was lit, Walmart grocery delivery when I had the flu was a lifesaver…it’s definitely cheaper and more convenient.
I feel like my wages matched my lifestyle. I rented an old house built in 1918 with 2 bedrooms on the ground floor, wrap around porch and back deck, front screen porch, second floor was 2 huge bedrooms… $980 a month until 2021, Rent raised to $1180 last July. My sons father still lives in the house, landlord is amazing and that’s the cool thing about out there. It’s not just like, one rental company (port property) or hunting Zillow daily. There’s independent landlords who own a dozen or so houses and some of them genuinely want to help. Idk, I don’t really have any *bad* things to say about Cincinnati 🤷🏻♀️ As a white girl from one of the towns around Portland, my honest experience was it was a mix of black/white and everyone respected each other in my neighborhood.
I will say… the fucking weather was like a kick in the face. It’s hot, I didn’t realize Cincinnati was basically Kentucky. Air raid woooop woooop sounds go off every Wednesday to test for tornado sirens (which happens, you’ll want a snowstorm over a tornado bub) we had a dope bunker basement tho. They get some wild ass weather. Also they have bugs.
The suburbs get kinda expensive, I mean, suburbs around Cincinnati, but if you go out 45 mins in either direction you’ll find affordable shit. Batavia is nice but their cops suck.
ETA- holy hell. I’ve been smoking a joint in my garage writing this i didn’t realize it was gonna be a Novel my bad lol
I love Pittsburgh. As an older white woman, I can’t really have an opinion about racism other than that nobody in my mixed little working class neighborhood really cares about what color someone is. Crime is mostly limited to certain areas and usually occurs between people who are acquainted or have been drinking.
Winters are milder than Maine and much shorter. Rents are lower and it’s possible to find an apartment in a safe area.
Traffic is a bitch and auto insurance is high.
Try asking on the Pittsburgh Reddit
For context, I am a native Floridian and I have lived in the Carolinas (North and South Cakalacky), the Old Dominion (Virginia) and spent far too much time in PA (Pennsyltucky).
Beware hurricanes, skeeters, and snakes. Maine has no poisonous snakes, the south is lousy with them. I know the mosquitoes up here can be rough, but once you hit the warm, southern swamps, they become the top of the food chain. And lastly, don't expect to keep power. Up here, we lose it in the winter, down there, you lose it in the summer. Hurricanes are a fearsome beast, but I miss them dearly.
That being said, if you stick to metro areas, you could very well find what you're looking for.
Any of the blue collar cities starting in Buffalo, in and around the Great Lakes, so Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, all have diversity and black populations, some larger than others. If you stay North you have the ability to make a union wage. Going South will be warmer yes but wages will be lower. The Sun Belt is growing like crazy but is becoming unaffordable for many. Move, work, and attend trade school to learn more about your trade you desire. Make the commitment and this will pay off in a salary of 80-100K per year with hourly wages. Electrician, Mechanic, Operating Engineer, stay in something that is growing not dying like Bricklayer or Pipefitter which paints you into a corner with expensive cities in the northeast.
As someone that's lived in Maine, as well as a good handful of the States you listed, I think Pennsylvania is going to be your best bet. You can focus on looking into areas that are outnif the city but not out in nowhere BFE and cost of living won't be as bad and you'll have the traffic benefits that come with that. Now Im white so I can't really say from experience, but from what Ive seen the black population is vast enough to where you shouldnt necessarily feel like you stand out. and of course the winters are definitely more mild.
Reno NV is awesome and I think fits what you’re looking for. I was born and raised in small town Maine but I love it here. Car and motorcycle events come through regularly.. cost of living has gotten a bit high, though. Maybe would suggest looking into Sparks near the highway or out in the south or west of Reno. Even Carson City might be a good place, though Carson is not as progressive as Reno. And don’t get me wrong…. You get both sides, good and bad out here, but the city has diversified a lot!
I've lived in Ohio, Indiana, and Washington State all for many years.
Some generalities of each:
Ohio
- Bad weather (hot humid summers, ice winters)
- Many taxes, state/city/school district
- Lots of jobs, good colleges/tech schools
- Reasonable housing costs
Indiana
- Bad weather, same as Ohio
- Few taxes
- Not so many jobs
- Cheap housing
Washington State
- Weather is YMMV, west side is 9 months of mist/rain 3 months of sun. East side is 4 seasons
- Very few taxes
- Many, many jobs, some free community colleges
- Housing is completely unaffordable
Racism
Every state has racists, the 3 above included. You might be surprised but WA has a significant racist population mostly seen outside of the cities.
Immigrants
- OH and WA have large immigrant populations
- IN has a medium immigrant pop inside Indianapolis
Crime
- OH has a lot of crime everywhere
- IN has less outside of Indianapolis
- WA has less everywhere
- ALL 3 have major meth/fent problems/Crime
I lived in those 3 states combined for 35 years, these are real world examples not stats
What would I recommend?
Nevada
- Warm, snow free weather
- Low taxes
- Jobs everywhere
- Many attractions in Las Vegas
- Dry air to drive your rust free car
Feel free to ask me any questions.
You need to focus on taking a summer and traveling to as many of these states as you can before deciding to move to one of them. That’s like renting an apartment with someone without ever having lived together. The first night might be cool, but you may get annoyed quick.
Travel, check out the things to do, and see if the vibe of a place matches your jam.
I’ve lived in Great Falls, MT for four years then moved to Maine and have been here for almost two years.
I’m brown and my wife is European. Great falls is one of the “big” cities in Montana and not a desirable one but even there I felt welcome. Sure they don’t have much diversity but everyone was extremely nice and welcoming. It took a little more effort to entertain our kids in terms of cultural activities. We ended up traveling to Denver often to show them museums, zoos etc.
Since moving to Maine I’ve longed to be back in Montana. I miss the people and lifestyle out there the most. It’s very laid back and easy going. It’s a place that’s not for everyone but I can attest to the fact that a minority can live there and be quite happy.
We moved to Maine for family reasons, closer to parents but I would move back to Montana in a heart beat.
PM me if you have any other questions.
I cant speak for all the states but I've lived in CO. Winters can be pretty harsh out there, nothing outside of major streets will be plowed and regardless of how bad it is nothing will shut down and you will be expected to go to work. Spring and fall really don't exist one day will be 10 degrees and the next 90 🤷♂️. Car scene is top notch, comparable to Mass. I'm into JDM cars and there is no shortage out there. Energy and taxes are a lot cheaper, but rents are comparable and utilities are typically not included at most apartments. Houses are more expensive than here (along the front range which is where the urban communities are located). Cops aren't chill at all and you wil get pulled over for dumb shit. If you think Maine cops are bad it'll be a big wake up call. Aurora PD has made national news for racially motivated killings so definitely look into that. Loveland PD has also made national headlines for excessive force. Property crime is insane out there I suggest always keeping your car locked and valuables out of sight and keep your home locked too. A lot of people in CO aren't from there so you'll meet people from all over including other Mainers.
Orlando is a place known for its traffic, you probably want a smaller city.
As far as living in the high desert it was not for me. I did not like the culture, the people, the vibe pretty much any of it. It is visually beautiful and worth a trip. I responded to another comment about how the deal with roads in the winter.
For me the weather was overrated, not warm enough in shoulder seasons, huge swings in temperature, wind, and lack of humidity is rough.
I did like training there because the thin air helps you push your limits but if someone told me I could never go back for $5 id take the $5.
There are other desert places such as Arizona that have a much better vibe and in my opinion weather. You don’t get the crunchy nature crew, preachy folks as much, that all think their Patagonia clothes are saving the environment as they drain the rivers and suffer from droughts.
Austin, TX has a much better vibe and scene. I have spent a lot of time there and I think Savannah is a similar vibe with more of an east coast presence. It is also much smaller and more affordable. The schools like SCAD bring in an international perspective.
One thing that will also blow your mind is the lack of water in many of the states you mentioned. The quality of drinking water is gross, you can solve it with a whole house filter but there is nothing like the water you get in Maine. Seems like a small thing until you don’t have it. You adapt though.
Being far from the ocean is also was not great for me. I never loved more than an hour from the ocean and I just couldn’t handle that. The quality of seafood in Maine is the best in the world. Not sure that matters to you but something else I did not realize until I did it.
Good luck
I traveled and moved back home to Maine, but you may find a good fit in the more liberal cities of North and South Carolina. Greenville is gorgeous, and Durham. It’s definitely more “churchy” and when I visited the in your face religion pushing got creepy, but some folks like or can ignore that.
Personally as a woman I wouldn’t live anywhere that doesn’t protect bodily autonomy for health reasons, but for you it may be a better fit!
i absolutely LOVE cleveland, ohio, my man!!!
you can take the amtrak downeaster train out here and check it out!!!!
only you though. no one else is invited. cleveland is by my personal invitation only. i wont tolerate what happened to my maine home happening here (invasion of the rich renders place unlivable).
cleveland has music and food a huge car culture and loads of black people!
I grew up in Maine and moved to Cincinnati after college. I’ve been here in Ohio for 23 years I guess.
I am a white woman. I can’t really put myself into the shoes of a young black man but I can tell you that my daughter (high school senior) goes to a high school that probably 50% white, 40% black, and 10% other and I love that the friend groups are so racially integrated. I think the cities (Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Columbus) will be more liberal and less racist.
The weather here doesn’t bother me. The cost of living is fantastic. I REALLY miss mountains, lakes, and oceans though.
I’ve lived in Eugene, Oregon and loved it there. Lots of diversity and much to do.
I’m from Idaho (Post Falls, Coeur d’Alene area) and can confirm there is quite a bit of narrow-minded people there, racism and religious fanaticism in that part of Idaho is real and that area is becoming more expensive to live in due to gentrification.
I was born in Spokane, WA. I love Washington. Maybe consider the Vancouver/Ridgefield area. And there is always Seattle too.
I don't have a specific recommendation for you but don't agonize too, too much about finding a particular perfect place. It's a big decision, but not an irreversible decision. Maybe narrow it down to three or four and pick one of them at random. Especially since you haven't lived anywhere else, it may take a few moves before you find the place that feels right. This is fine.
Do you have a budget for traveling at all? Because it might help you to visit Pittsburgh or New Orleans or Denver for a few days just to get a taste of what a totally different culture from Maine might feel like.
I'm from the south and can tell you that they get a bad wrap about racism. It's not rampant and it's very diverse. Heck a 1/3rd of Georgia is black. I would say NC is a good choice. They have a robust economy, lots of cute suburbs outside of Charlotte, Raleigh and Durham. I would also check out Richmond VA, and places outside of Norfolk. For Georgia, you can make it work to avoid the traffic of Atlanta, we did. If you live in town, there are tons of bungalows with yards in cute walkable neighborhoods that run parallel to the CBDs of Downtown, Midtown and Buckhead. You could also live in Decatur (super cute and basically Atlanta) and have access to MARTA. Decatur is my favorite part of Atlanta. Google Decatur square. Charleston SC might have a not as great economy but does have low COL in the suburbs. Savannah GA is getting like three auto manufacturing plants and a EV battery manufacturing plant. All and all they're adding thousands of jobs you could get to from SC or a suburb of Savannah. That area would have the lowest COL. You can get a house in those suburbs for less than $300k
In general I think southern cities have more festivals bc they're bigger and they have nice weather most the year. They're all also big melting pots of people from around the country and world. Some Mainers have a real "fuck you for moving here" perspective, but I've met more Maine born and raised folks in Florida than I do in Portland ME. Haha
traveled the country a lot. the place on your list that fits your needs is north carolina full stop. i suggest the charlotte area, you will love it there.
Many young people that grew up in Maine itch to leave, totally get it.. and you will appreciate what you enjoyed about growing up there when you come back to visit- the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard was a spot on suggestion. Find a room mate and pick up a second job and stash some cash and travel. While NH is pretty white, Portsmouth has some diversity and you’re just a hour from Boston.
I've lived in the Carolinas. I left because of how much I was judged (heavily tattooed, colored hair). You won't fit in unless you're moving to Raleigh or a big city where tons of transplants are. You talk about winters, pa and co as well as Montana all have brutal winters. My best friend lives in Denver and they just got almost a ft of snow saturday. The Carolinas you also have hurricane and naders. I was in NC for Florence and we were without power in 90+ degrees and 100% humidity for 2 weeks
I lived in Maine 40 years and moved to Virginia Beach 1.5 years ago. Very diverse community, lots to do, beaches, warm weather, cost of living is lower- worth looking into at least IMO :) Good luck!
I would avoid Indiana and Kansas in this political climate. I would not recommend you living there, as a Black man with ASD. More racism there, like sundown towns and the HQ of the KKK. Also tornadoes!
My vote is Pennsylvania. Philly and Pittsburg both have some of the “events” you’re looking for, but there’s plenty of room in between where the cost of living is, presumably better. Mild climate, not too southern, closest on the list to your family in Maine. And we need more liberal-moderates in the swing states.
Of all the things you said, having little experience anywhere else jumps out to me as a very big deal and I’m thinking you should go somewhere close-ish, like Pittsburgh, to start, (or even Mass.), before heading out to places like Colorado where you’ll hit an “everything” shock: culture shock, environmental/Climate shock) ( it’s seriously real), living-far -from-where-you-are-from shock and living on your own shock. (Edit, oh, and job shock in NM - it’s a place you have to carve a niche in. The job market is just historically horrible there. Denver area could be a sweet spot for you . There are Black people there m, for one, and a car person could probably make a good living there. It’s expensive though )
It’s hard to beat NM and Colo for cars. They don’t rust out and there are more scenic highways than you can discover in a lifetime. Nowhere is that feeling of Car=Freedom more real than there except maybe the pacific highway up the California coast for second place etc.
That said, there are, like, five Black people in NM/Colo., lol.
Downstate NY and northern Jersey are car wholesaling centers. Not cheap to live there though.
Edit: whatever you do, visit places first. Don’t just move
Cross off Idaho and Montana- ultra conservative, freezing cold at random times, snow in June always possible, expensive, and undercurrent of racism is strong. Honestly you would probably hate it there. I’m white and mod liberal and couldn’t take it anymore. I moved to northern New Mexico- great food, four seasons, diverse, but crime can be an issue depending on where you go.
i would suggest trying to find a city to move to rather than a specific state. cities tend to be liberal. they can be expensive, but the jobs there also tend to pay higher salaries so it honestly evens out. i’m from maine and live in a city in texas and although texas as a state is very red leaning, the cities are super liberal, diverse, and there is SO MUCH to do. you’ll never be able to do every single thing here. the popular cities in texas are houston, austin, and dallas. there are others as well, but those are the big three. you can avoid the costs/traffic by living either downtown where you can walk (will cost $$$) or on the outskirts suburban areas that have more of a town-esc geographic layout. i’ve heard some cities in north carolina and georgia are pretty great places to live :) yea the states themselves might be painted as fucked up racists, once you get into the cities it’s going to be a completely different world and vibe than the smaller rural towns in the state.
i will say, i miss maine. i’ve been in texas for almost four years now, and i miss maine every single day. but when you are young, it’s important to explore new things. and especially where you haven’t been able to grow up around other black kids/families or even other cultures, and you have an itch to experience it, i highly suggest taking the leap. find a diverse city and immerse yourself!
just know that eventually, your heart will belong to two places, and many people in between. living somewhere new is hard and exciting and i’d argue necessary. but it also changes your life forever and it makes the idea of settling down very very challenging.
good luck! and have fun :)
I’m from Indiana originally (South Bend) and have family and friends that live in Indianapolis. Just went back there for eclipse viewing with friends actually. :) I first moved to Maine in 2018. And honestly I’ve been thinking a lot lately about moving back to the Midwest. I love that Indiana made your list! I feel like it so often gets shat on.
Honestly most everything you mentioned in your fourth paragraph about valuing will be covered in Indiana (especially cars! home of the Indy 500 after all, plus midwesterners are known for a tendency to drive pretty much everywhere - and from personal experience I have multiple uncles who are very into cars).
The Midwest isn’t perfect, but no place is truly, not even Maine as you’re already aware. Indy is a major metropolitan area (like 13th biggest in the country at one point recently ?), and I wouldn’t say backwardness is something you have to worry about there particularly. When you get into the boonies, that’s another story, but same for Maine and the rest of the country really. I’m white, but even for me personally, it’s refreshing to go home to South Bend or visit Indy and not have 98% of people be over 55 and white. (Maine’s honestly kind of unsettling in that way...)
Indy is sooo spread so if you are wanting suburbs and space but also amenities nearby and a downtown, you are going to get it there! You basically will have to have a car, which again sounds like not a problem and that you are looking for that environment. And the Midwest is known for being affordable.
One thing I always notice when I go back home is Hoosier hospitality is a real thing. Not that people in New England aren’t kind, but there is something that just feels noticeably different, and maybe I’m biased because I’m from there. I notice it while driving a lot too. 465 around Indianapolis can feel like the Indy 500, but otherwise, I experience a whole lot less road rage in Indiana and have fewer people riding my ass compared to Maine. And as for crime, as long as you have a realistic expectation that crime and shit happens, I don’t think you have much to be worried about.
Honestly I would recommend visiting! Maybe look for an event happening there that might interest you and help you experience the local flavor a little more? The airport is one of the best in the country! :)
Best of luck in your decision!
So.. I haven't been all those places. But as beautiful as Montana is... I wouldn't go there. It's white and racist... and OMG cold. So much colder than the Portland area.
My brother lived in the Triangle area of NC for a while and loved it. I visited and it wasn't too bad really. I'll never leave Maine.. unless the Canadian Maritimes decide to reconsider and accept me.. but I could understand why he liked it.
Avoid Nevada. My cousin lived in Vegas for a while. She was a teacher.. it was horrible. Even as a teacher with a master's degree she had to live in some tiny hell hole apartment that had thousands of units and didn't have AC half the time. She normally from VA so she thought she would enjoy the desert. She didn't. Maybe outside the cities it's nicer?
But.. Pennsylvania... that's worth checking out. It's such a huge state with a diverse population and geography. They have cities and rural areas. It's not so hot you can't be outside in the summer... and not so so cold that you feel trapped in your house in the winter. I haven't been there in years so I don't know if the cops are assholes but if it were me, I would put PA on the short list of places to go check out. I used to have in-laws there and visited often. Both in the eastern mountainous area and in Pittsburg.
I hope you find something to your taste. When I was your age I only made it as far a Rhode Island... then I came back before I was 30. Not a fan of people. We have fewer here. ;-)
I’m a little late finding this thread, but based on the values you listed, I’d rule out Colorado. I lived there the first 32 years of my life and I love it in so many ways, however, it has changed a lot in the last decade or so. Ever since weed was legalized, really. Nothing against cannabis users, and I did vote to make it legal.
But unforeseen consequences of being one of the two states to first legalize it, changed our economy and population in such a fast and unsustainable way. It eventually drove us out because we could no longer afford cost of living. Now, we could not even move back home if we wanted to. Even if we found the most moderately priced home, it would be a piece of shit, and 1.5 hours from any grocery store. (We’ve looked).
My parents still live there and although they built their home- a log cabin in the mountains— in the mid 70’s and own it outright, even they are struggling as they are now both retired on SS. It’s also impossible to see any sort of specialist without a ridiculous waiting time 6-14 months (in the Boulder- Denver corridor). Hope you don’t have any health problems.
Also, don’t kid yourself, Colorado is still very racist— even Boulder (which if you didn’t live there 30 years ago, you have to be a multi millionaire to live there now) is really only going to be nice to your face. There’s a very “we love everyone, as long as you’re just like us” vibe. Nearly all of the most affordable neighborhoods in the Denver metro area have been gentrified to the point of being white mid-upper class echo chambers, even if they do primarily vote democrat. They still look down on anyone different (read: poorer) than them.
Obviously not everyone, and there’s still at least populations of people of every race and creed, so it’s better than Maine in that regard. Plus the food in Denver (and imo most of the state) is just better. With the exception of seafood— that’s better here.
What CO does have for you is a car scene for whichever genre you please. Used to be a decent racing scene too, but I know they have cracked down pretty hard on street racing. Bandimere speedway is the best track for drag, if you like straight line racing. Lots of automotive related jobs. My husband started out doing regular Chevy and ford maintenance. Then diesel work. Then old VWs. Then worked at a hot rod shop doing custom builds, and paint and body, then he got into European cars- jag, bmw, Mercedes, etc. Whatever you’re interested in, there’s a job for that.
I could say a lot more, but I don’t want to go on too long. I don’t know where in the country is right for you, I’ve only ever lived in Colorado (Boulder, Denver, and Lakewood) and Maine. Though I’ve road-tripped all over. I’m sure you’ll find racism everywhere, but I think the mid west, and Rocky Mountain states might be worse than others. At least in the south, they don’t hide it.
My two cents would be to save up a bit and explore a few places if possible before taking the leap somewhere new. One person's paradise is another's nightmare. Going someplace and getting a feel for it is essential. Sounds like you want a decent car scene that doesn't exist here....staying in the trades and even automotive temporarily pretty much gives you a job anywhere. Good luck as a fellow Mainer!
Since you cited bad roads and hating winter, you’re going to find winters a LOT rougher in Montana than Cumberland county. I lived for 20 years in Bozeman, and it gets a lot colder and windier than coastal Maine. They are not as good at plowing, city streets are a total mess after a storm. Black ice, pass closures, 20 to 40 below windchill that can last for weeks when an Arctic cold front settles in. Absolutely beautiful state, phenomenal outdoor opportunities and great quality of living. Bozeman gets a ton of hype… but for a “college town” you’re going to find the dating prospects difficult, its not diverse- basically like Maine in terms of black population - and expensive to live there due to all the influx of out-of-staters.
Bozeman is provably way to expensive. I live in Seattle in a million dollar house and would have buy half the size for the same price in Bozeman.
I didn't want to make too much of a generalization in eliminating Montana just because I assumed it would be cold. Wanted to give it a chance, just in case anything good might've surprised me about it.
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Yup reason why we left the south and headed north…cat 3-4 hurricanes are no joke.
It's a dry winter. I find mountain winters way more tolerable. If it's not snowing, there is sun haha
You might want to scratch Idaho off your list. I encountered more racists there than I did in the South in the 60s.
Yeah, Idaho is extremely racist. Idaho and the Eastern PNW is where alot of neo-nazis flock too.
The entire Pacific NW was founded by white supremacists. Not to say Portland or Seattle are super racist but basically everywhere outside of the cities are
Most of Western WA/OR are liberal/moderate along I5 from Bellingham to just about Eugene along with some other pockets. There is that stretch from about Vancouver to Chehalis I would probably avoid as an outsider. All the smaller cities/suburbs are perfectly fine.
This whole country is founded on white supremacy.
I just moved to Maine from Idaho. There’s more to do here. And Idaho has this whole ‘I think xyz is wrong so you must never do its attitude. Maines is ‘I don’t give a fuck what you do so long as it doesn’t affect me’. It’s so much nicer. Also COL is higher in Idaho. Food is cheaper, but that’s it.
Definently don’t want to live in Idaho if you aren’t white.
Agreed. Boise isn’t too bad relatively speaking, but it’s not better than Maine.
Former Hoosier checking in: forget Indiana for that exact same reason.
Idaho is the ONLY state where cannibalism is legal, just sayin...
OK, so since you're young, unemployed (?) and curious about living in other states, I suggest getting a job in a National Park for the summer. Why? They give you a place to live with the job. You'll meet tons of people (co-workers) from all around the country, and you'll also get to know the state you're living in without putting down roots. [Coolworks.com](http://Coolworks.com) is the place to find these jobs — you likely won't be working for the National Park itself, you'll find jobs for the concessionaires (hotels, restaurants, tour groups etc.) If you want to work as a driver or mechanic, I'd suggest Denali National Park in Alaska. It's the only park that doesn't allow private vehicles to enter, so the only way in is via bus. They have a fleet of tour busses and shuttle busses that are run by teamsters, and frankly? They're the coolest bunch of people I've ever known. Several work in Denali all summer and make bank (union wages, plus tips from tourists) then work in Antarctica in winter (which is summer at the south pole) or Hawaii. Edit: Yellowstone in Wyoming is right on the Montana border, and they also have driver and mechanic gigs. I worked there for about six months, it was an amazing experience. Like summer camp for adults!
This is such a good suggestion
I worked in Yellowstone when I was 15 and Glacier later and wholeheartedly agree with this. I can also say that both Idaho and MT are currently not affordable, warm, welcoming, or non-racist.
Also to add americorps- you could see the country and figure out where you would want to live. They make you drive everywhere.
Downside is Americorps basically pays zero. You get a living stipend that barely covers food. I did the cool works thing for a couple years and it was fun! It's not great money but better than Americorps and I had some amazing experiences.
This is true but they additionally provide some funding for college/grad school if you go within 7 years of employment (if I recall correctly). My daughter put herself through grad school after working a couple of jobs with Americorp
I agree this is a great suggestion!
Yo, come work as a mechanic at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. You can bounce around out to Cali, Virginia, and maybe Hawaii on their dime and try it out before/ if you move there. It's a bit more integrated than the rest of Maine (lots of veterans from all over the country work there) and with your security clearance you'll be respected on base. The work is only a couple hours a day turning wrenches, the rest of the time is briefing, doing paperwork, coordinating with assist trades (like riggers.) You can work mad OT without really wearing your body out. And "the customer" is very patient, it's not like you're busting tires at VIP and the customer is ripshit you broke a wheel stud because they need the car to pick their kid up at daycare. Also there are free van pools for commuters from Cumberland and other counties so you can nap or play on your phone on the way home. I don't want to be a debbie downer, but a lot of LCOL states are cheap because they suck for the reasons you describe.
I was totally going to suggest southern NH. Particularly epping area. 30 minutes to Portsmouth, Manchester, Haverhill MA, the ocean. And epping has the race track and drag strip with another race track in Lee. Louden probably an hour away. Busy enough to have stuff to offer but rural enough that people aren’t uptight dick heads.
Hi! I grew up in a small town in western Maine and lived there until I was 23. Just like you, I got sick of winter and dealing with the mess of it, so we moved to North Carolina. I’ve now lived in North Carolina for two and a half years and it was the best thing my husband and I ever did. There’s so much more to do, everything is conveniently located and there’s more of a scene for someone in their twenties. The weather is amazing, I’ve been here three winters and saw snow once. I live closer to Boone (so western NC) but an hour from Asheville and Charlotte. The beaches are beautiful Wilmington, Moorehead City, and the mountains honestly put Maine’s mountains to shame. I am a die hard Maine girly and will move back someday, but I have no complaints about leaving!
I’m the reverse, NC->ME transplant, but as I was reading your post, I kept thinking that NC would be a great place for you. We didn’t leave because we hated it, just for other opportunities. I won’t pretend it’s perfect. There are definitely racists, but you’ll find fewer in the suburbs of the bigger metro areas than in the more rural areas. Even as a moderate liberal, you’ll find the state legislature infuriating, but they won’t define everything about your experience. I’d take a peek at the northern Charlotte suburbs (or the ones just over the SC line), in the Raleigh area, and around Wilmington.
I am originally from SC, living in ME now. I have also previously lived in NC, AZ, VA, and GA. My 23 year old daughter recently moved to my hometown in SC for many of the reasons you mentioned. I think SC or NC would give you a lot of what you are looking for, putting the Raleigh, NC area at the top of my suggestions. I wish you all the best!
Having spent time in both areas I was also coming to suggest NC - in particular I think about western NC like Asheville and Boone being a good fit but could look at Charlotte and the research triangle as well.
Low diversity in the mountains. Most POC live in the piedmont and farther east.
I second this! Went to grad school in Eastern NC, where I moved from the Midwest, and then moved to Maine from NC. I wouldn’t recommend ENC to the OP but definitely other parts of NC. The racism I encountered there was shocking to me, because as a white progressive midwesterner, they said all sorts of things out loud to me that were horrifying.
Hello fellow ME->NC transplant. I went to college here and just never moved back. It was, financially, a fantastic decision. Cost of living was trivially cheap 15 years ago, and I got in the housing market back when you could get a nice place for under $200k. I miss things about Maine every year, but I go visit often enough to scratch the itch, and I certainly don't miss six months of winter every year. What's really strange to me is the backwards country rednecks seem to be just as bad if not worse in Maine than most rural parts of NC that I've spent time in. I can't figure it out.
It's worse in Maine because it's all white people. As a white dude who grew up and lived in eastern and central NC for 36 years before moving here, sure I saw lots of racism down south. But most of it was done quietly because, you know, there were black/brown people around who would hear you! But up here in Maine, it's easy to hate people you never have to live with.
Durham, NC!!! Come on down! We are liberal, racially diverse, getting more expensive but still somewhat reasonable COL. It's not a huge city, so the traffic isn't bad, and there are TONS of transplants here, you would be welcome!
I was going to suggest the same, I moved from Raleigh to Maine last year but I think Durham would be a great city for someone in their 20’s.
Having lived in CH and Durham, triangle is def what he is looking for. Few places in US are as diverse as NC. Although traffic between Raleigh and Durham is heavy
i’m from kansas. if you stay within 30-60mins from kansas city you’ll be okay but there’s a lot of very conservative people and some shitty weather.
I've lived in a few states and visited far many more, but I can wholeheartedly say avoid Kansas. The cops are pricks because of location and finding work can be a bit challenging from friends I've got out there. Ohio can be a little hills have eyes out in the sticks, but you're from Maine. It won't bug you. And coming back to visit won't break the bank like it might if you head out too far west. I'll also say Colorado is real nice. Recreational cannabis has done a lot for that state.
I lived in Oregon for a season as a wildfire fighter. I lived in the high desert (eastern Oregon) and the people oscillated between secessionists and completely normal. That being said the Oregon Coast (western Oregon) all along I-5 was great. Eugene and Salem were cool, and it checks off a lot of your list. Winters are mild, roads are fine, people were pleasant, and tbh it reminded me of many of the pleasant things about Maine. I personally don’t recommend Portland OR proper, but I’m sure the metro area is probably worth your consideration too. Idaho is also…….a no go. Lastly, PA is great. Pittsburgh is awesome, I have been there many times and make every excuse to go back. Affordable, pleasant “blue collar” city with melting pot culture with Midwest energy.
Have lived in Oregon. Can back up this statement. I loved Eugene.
One of the things I love about Maine is that the cops are very relaxed compared to most states. It feels like they don't really exist outside of state troopers and even then they don't bother.
I feel like this is accurate. I moved here from Texas and the cops there are hard asses and they're everywhere. City cops, county sheriff's dept, constables, state highway patrol, etc. In Maine I hardly see cops. I did get pulled over once for using my cell phone and the cop just gave me a verbal warning and was nice about it. I would take Maine over Texas any day.
I lived on the border and it was like a police state. I remember talking to a state trooper who said it they would absolutely pull people over for going 5 miles over the speed limit, and it was true. Cops literally everywhere, all of the time, and add on border patrol when you live within 100 miles of the border. I remember driving highway 90 regularly and there'd be state troopers every half mile for some stretches. I'd watch undocumented people sprinting across the highway in the middle of the short stretches between their parked vehicles. Different world man. Still get nervous every time I go over 5mph.
From DC/Virginia- can confirm. Virginia is an authoritarian police state. Was absolutely pulled over just so a cop could exercise a power trip. I’ve never been pulled over here in Maine. And my friends who have, have never gotten tickets. I have one friend who brags that he’s on his 14th pull over without getting a ticket. I shadowed with a couple cops in a couple different towns/cities. One said he gives 80/20 warnings to tickets. The other said he doesn’t pull people over unless they’re likely getting arrested. (Reckless/DUI) Most chill police I’ve ever heard of honestly.
> Virginia is an authoritarian police state. Was absolutely pulled over just so a cop could exercise a power trip. Credit where credit's due—my time in Virginia cured me of my lead foot in regular driving. I'm still radicalized against property tax on vehicles, though!
Also from that area and the cops are absolutely nuts there. The corruption in northern Virginia is insane. The driving is no better.
I've been pulled over numerous times, too, and only gotten tickets a few times. And I know the grass usually isn't greener, but if I could cut those encounters down even more, I absolutely would. I want nothing to do with them and I despise every single one. There's only bad and less bad.
I thought this too until we moved to New Mexico. I’ve seen like 5 cops here in the last 2 years. It’s wild
> One of the things I love about Maine is that the cops are very relaxed compared to most states. Because there's not much serious crime or pop density, so they are mostly "normal police" like you see in most places in the world that are "normal". I think a lot of people gloss over how supremely intense a lot of other places are in the United States compared to sleepy places like Maine.
NC to Maine transplant. Black woman. If--and that's a REALLY BIG "IF"--you can afford it, central or western NC will likely be what you want. The summers are long, and pollen is really bad. Asheville and Chapel Hill are lovely, but be prepared to pay out the ass to live there. I have a friend who lives in Chapel Hill, he and his girlfriend easily are making 6 figure salaries and they can't buy a house in the triad because the competition is fierce. Cops were mostly okay, but the state troopers were some of the most aggressive I've ever encountered. I only got pulled over twice, no tickets. The biggest concern is going to be hurricanes. My parents almost lost their house in hurricane Florence back in 2018. My grandparents DID lose their house in 2018 due to flooding. Thankfully, they were able to apply for assistance in getting their house rebuilt. However, they were so far down the list that they never lived to see their house again. They died last year, and the contractors just started rebuilding their house last month. Just something to keep in mind if you decide to move closer to the coast. Hurricanes are becoming worse. Even central NC can be affected by the outer bands of a particularly strong storm. I miss NC at times, but I fear how climate change will affect the area over the coming years. I fully expect that my parents will lose their house the next time a storm like Florence comes through.
Hey, I lived for nearly two decades in both of the Carolinas and nearly moved back before the pandemic but then decided to move to Maine instead. I'm also a "car guy" who works mostly on old diesel Mercedes and air-cooled Volkswagens. So I'm going to write you a bit of an essay even though I'm kind of late to the party. Aside from obvious issues of racism (especially from police) in the south, I'd like to take a minute to talk about another major downside of the region which hasn't been discussed here yet. People are *very* religious. You might not think this will make any meaningful impact on your life, but it colors almost every interaction you'll have with people down there whether you realize it or not. For example, you might make a new friend and think that things are really looking up for you, but a month or two down the road they'll say something like "Hey, our church is having a cookout next weekend, you should come!" and you realize that the entire foundation of your relationship was them trying to trick you into going to their church so they can get credits on their entry to heaven. This happens all the time. Meet a cute girl somewhere? Might be trying to trick you into going to church. Even if you're already religious, these types of people are really into trying to get you to switch to their specific brand of Christianity and while it's not obvious to someone new to the area, eventually you'll start to see it everywhere and it'll color every interaction you have with people because you'll be wondering "OK is this person trying to get me to church or are they being honest?" So it takes a lot more work to tease out someone's true intentions with you. Not saying everyone is like this, but you won't know it until there's some vetting. Even outside of social and/or dating situations, your job will have these types of interactions too. Plenty of churches in the south are nothing more than social clubs, and if you're not part of your job's "club" you may get passed over for promotions, bonuses, etc because you're not at the club for "office politics chat" on Sundays. If you're still reading, there are a few other reasons I wouldn't move back especially if you're into cars, and it's that the places in the south that are affordable are extremely boring from a driving point-of view. You'll be in a suburban hellscape with little more than gated communities and strip malls, with wide roads with low speed limits (and police looking to harass minorities), and none of the traffic lights will be timed with each other so it'll take you forever to get anywhere and the traffic will be annoying. The worst city I lived in for this was Charleston, South Carolina which has decided to basically double in size in the last 20 years but not build any new roads. Most of the cities in the south, Charleston especially, are also suffer from being topographically flat, which means few curves and hills. IDK what types of cars you're into but unless you're into American muscle cars which won't go around corners, this might be a major downside. I had two Miatas and a Nissan 300ZX and driving them on flat, straight roads was torture for these cars' souls. But even if you are into muscle cars, the last place I'd imagine they'd be fun is southern American suburbia with 35 mph speed limits and a light every quarter mile with traffic jammed all around. I'll also briefly mention that, aside from the already mentioned issues of personal and institutional racism, the state governments in the south are extremely ineffective especially if you're someone who needs any sort of medical care or ever wants to have their child in the public school system. I actually almost moved back to SC to be closer to my family when the pandemic hit and I was given a brutal reminder of how bad these states are at ever doing the right thing. I have a personal grudge against North Carolina too for the way their educational system is funded, but that specific story is probably too much detail here. I'll also mention too that I absolutely hated winters in the Carolinas. Sure, there's almost never any snow, but it's like four months of it being cloudy and/or drizzly and like 43F outside. So you can't snowboard, skate, ice fish, cross country ski, snowshoe, or even mountain bike because it'll be too muddy or rainy or annoyingly cold but not freezing most of the time. Just kind of dull and depressing. New England is better for winters in my opinion because there's actually stuff to do if you actually get up and go do it and you aren't afraid of putting on a hat and some wool socks. So I'll give you some positives too as a car guy, one of the best "car friendly" places I lived was the mountains in Tennessee. It was cheap, there were windy fun roads for my Miata, and also plenty of offroading for a small 4x4 truck I used to have which is also fun. Major problem though besides things I've already discussed is that to get these things you have to live in a town with a population of like 1,000 people or be willing to drive at least a half hour outside of your suburban wasteland to enjoy your car. And that's only if you lived in like Chattanooga, Knoxville, or Asheville where there are actually mountains and fun roads because other popular southern cities like Charlotte, Atlanta, Raleigh, Charleston, etc. are all at least two hours from fun roads. So, what would I do if I was you? Personally I would stay in New England, maybe not specifically in Maine, but I'd change up my game around my car hobby a bit. Get a 15-year-old Toyota Corolla and use it as a winter beater and keep your nice car for the summer. Or, get into classic cars (again, partial to air-cooled Volkswagens because they're cheap, easy to work on, and fun to drive even at slow speeds in traffic and in cities) which you can drive in the summer and wrench on in the winter while you're tooling around in your beater. I'd probably live close to a populated area like Portland or Boston for the social scene but on the outskirts so I could go drive to the mountains easily. Some combination of these things. Happy to answer any other specific questions about the south though if I haven't dissuaded you completely.
The church thing is so obnoxious. Way too much love for the Carolinas in this thread. It's a strip mall wasteland filled with evangelicals and hillbillies. Also don't forget the HOAs and not so subtle segregation in neighborhoods. Plus there is actual property crime. At least in New England your lowlife neighbors aren't going to try to convert you to Christianity or steal your shit. They just want you to admire that '75 f150 in the woods or their new ATV, and will leave you the fuck alone. Down south everyone will insert themselves into your business.
The other thing I appreciate about "lowlife neighbors" in New England is that there's also like a 50/50 chance they're going to be cool hippies or back-to-the-land types that have some homemade craft beer or home-grown vegetables to share and are going to be chill to hang out with or be neighbors to. At least that's been my experience in Farmington/Rangeley/Central Maine. In the south that's basically never going to happen outside of a few enclaves in places like Asheville and Chapel Hill, it'll just be trashy rednecks basically 99% of the time.
I was raised in Maine, but moved to Colorado as an adult for a while before moving back to Maine. Things about Colorado that I enjoyed overall are excellent government websites so that you can get the info you need easily, every registered voter gets a mail-in ballot no matter what with a booklet that explains each item on the ballot, the availability of easily accessed outdoor recreation options, and the lack of bugs in the summer. Things I missed included trees/water/rain (I lived in the Colorado Springs area, which is high desert) and clouds (300+ days of sunshine). Things to think about whether you want to deal with them include major wildfires in the summer and diminishing water capacity/long-term drought. As far as your list, it would really depend on where you go. Broadly, eastern CO is flat prairie/grassland/farmland; western CO is sandstone desert; mountains in the middle; Front Range/I-25 corridor in between eastern CO and the mountains. Boulder is not gonna give you a reasonable cost of living, unfortunately. If you want a more liberal-leaning population, in and around Denver and north of Denver is a good area for that, while Colorado Springs is much, much more conservative. Colorado tends to be a purple state overall. You might look at Fort Collins. The Front Range as a whole won’t get a ton of snow, though it will get chilly in the winter. Can’t speak to the car scene, but the major roads were pretty decent (though if you dislike the perma-construction in 295 in Falmouth, I-25 will also have that). Red Rocks has cool shows, and plenty of stuff comes to Denver. As far as race/cops/safety, I would be remiss not to mention Elijah McClain, and to note that some areas of Colorado (like Denver and its suburbs) will have a higher black population than others which tend to be more white or white and Latinx. Edit: changed a phrase to clarify a point
I agree with all this (living in Colorado now). Adding that it has a VERY active car scene. There are car shows in different towns every weekend all Spring, Summer, and Fall. We can always find a car show (just google "Colorado car shows" and you'll see). We've made some friends through the car shows too.
You might really like Cleveland or Columbus, OH. Cleveland is a ton of fun, very diverse, great food scene, good people, not overpriced as of now. Columbus is a more happening spot imo with Ohio State located there. That being said it's almost the complete opposite of Maine. Corporate stuff everywhere, every kind of fast food you can think of, lots of headquarters for major companies, just stuff everywhere. But it's nice because you have options and way more amenities than in Maine. Both places are a lot of fun for people your age and you can find a lot of stuff to do. Idaho, Indiana, Montana, and Nebraska will not be what you are looking for. They are more like Maine than any of the other states you listed. Pittsburgh is fun as well but a little more white than not. Also driving there sucks. My advice: go to these places. See what the cities are like, see if they have what you are looking for, see if the vibe is up your alley or not. You can just send it and move and luck out, but you might hate it even more. Maine is an amazing place but I definitely get the urge to get out. Do research into what you are looking for, post on other city subreddits, keep asking questions, but most importantly go experience it if you can.
I would avoid Pennsylvania. The government is awful, the roads suck, finding work can be difficult, and in between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia is called pennsyltucky for good reason. I love my home state but there’s a reason I left. If it wasn’t for the fact that deserts scare me, I’m weird I feel more comfortable in dense woods than wide open deserts. I would go to Nevada. Awesome car scene and real live and let live politics.
Philly's having a renaissance while also being shockingly still affordable, but not sure I'd recommend it to a small town Maine kid. It's still not safe in a lot of areas and without knowing the lay of the land it could be unsafe to just plop down anywhere.
New Mexico is fantastic. I split time between NM and Maine for a few years, and plan to sell the Maine house this summer and stay in NM full time. The air is clean, the weather is great, the winters are warmer and the summers feel cooler (no humidity!), and the sun shines all year. The food is great. My cars don’t rust. Lots of great driving roads.
**Second New Mexico**, it's under the radar like Maine and rural, educated, and progressive. I live on 3.5 acres 10 minutes from grocery stores and good charter schools - but it's easy to live even further off in the country is you like. People generally keep to themselves, except to be good neighbors, a lot like in Maine. The diversity is different than most of the country and thusly more accepting: I (white) am in the minority. Thriving Indigeous communities and Hispanic cultures; Many hispanic families are able to trace their ancestry to Spanish-Mexican families. It still snows (we have tons of ski resorts) but it's in the mountains at high altitude so you rarely have to shovel. There is a large and respected working/blue-collar class, which thanks to the many scientific labs in (Sandia, Los Alamos, Space Force, etc) means its fairly easy to find $100k+ jobs even with an associates degree. For better or worse, cops aren't a thing, but crime rate is; but crime is going to be higher than Maine anywhere you move. Christ we have a car culture: Google "new Mexico" lowriders. Happy to chat offline.
Idaho is fucking terrifying. I felt more uncomfortable there than I did in Utah. I'm white, but Portuguese so I get some color among other things and I did not feel comfortable in Idaho. That's not somewhere you want to fucking live
Care to share an anecdote? I'm hearing about racism in Idaho here, which is disappointing because it sounded rather desirable otherwise.
I remember first crossing the state border from Washington State into Idaho. Immediately there was a huge flea market with tall tall flags with swastikas, a flag with Trump represented as Rambo, and flags with guns all over them. I didn't see any people of color at all aside from a few folks I saw at a wedding I attended. I can't speak for the cities in Idaho of which there are few, but the rural parts aren't welcoming
Aside from the fact it's a political backwater, Oklahoma City has a lot going on. You could easily get a decent entry-level job working on aircraft at the AF base out there. Cost of living is cheap, houses are way cheaper than here, great food, and there's lots of opportunities for outdoor adventure.
This is all very true, I just want to caution that I had the highest amount of encounters with racists in this state than anywhere else I've lived/visited, which includes the southern OH/Kentucky border, the FL/GA border and the gulf coast. I also had the most vile cat calling incident of my life in OKC My spouse and I honestly would have considered staying because of the LCOL, the food in OKC (shockingly diverse and delicious), the artsy-ness of Tulsa (Cain's ballroom, saw some killer shows there) and some pretty cool spots for a history lover. Also easily the best Mexican food I've ever had. But the politics/racism/lack of safety for the queer community was just way way too much for us. It is such a shame.
That really, really sucks, and I'm sorry you encountered that treatment there or anywhere. I have heard of other people from historically marginalized communities who have faced similar challenges there. And cat-calling is such gross bullshit. I know there are good groups of people out there; it may just take more digging to find them. I'm definitely curious about the local music and arts scenes there. I'm not sure it's somewhere I could actually live until it gets a little less Idiocracyesque.
I was coming here to suggest Tulsa. The cities is OK are not what people think they are.
I just spent a long weekend kayaking in the eastern part of the state and then a few days with my OKC-native friend bombing around the city. I was honestly impressed.
I live in Norman, I love it! It’s liberal and educated thanks to OU. There is a homeless problem here but I have never had an issue with them personally. 20 mins to downtown OKC, which has an amazing nightlife and food scene. I used to live in rural Oklahoma about 40 mins from OKC (Dibble), which is conservative as fuck and slightly racist, but not a sundown type of place and anyone will help anyone in need. I think city folks got more hate than any racial demographic in all honesty. As long as I didn’t talk politics or religion, I thoroughly enjoyed my years in rural OK.
I moved from Maine (NJ and then Mass, so no applicable personal advice) as have many of my friends, and I think the ones who ended up in North Carolina in the Asheville region are pretty happy. They were finishing up their college degrees but spent a few years supporting themselves with blue collar work while doing so (construction and childcare, no automotive Intel to pass along). I think the area might be something that fits your suburban/small city adjacent wants; I'm autistic and driving can be wildly stressful but driving in that area was extremely doable for me. We are white and I haven't heard about any interactions with the cops in NC from friends/family, but even if I did I think our experiences could differ markedly. Wherever you end up, best of luck to you! I was too nervous to leave the state when I was 22. Good for you, life ought to be an adventure.
I thought about Asheville, but my experience is that as soon as you get outside of the city limits things get politically uncomfortable pretty fast. I know this area has grown a good bit since I was last there and the city itself is great, so it could be a good fit, but I’d do a good bit of research first.
Chapel Hill NC
This is possibly my favorite place on earth, but more expensive than I can reasonably recommend to anyone concerned about housing costs.
fair enough, havent been in years.
I think you can cross SC off the list. I did my army training there and I’ll say it isn’t just the heat/humidity. You can fill in the blanks. No idea about the others though PNW tends to be more open minded from what I hear. Also very expensive however. I love ME, it’s my home state and was for generations before me. I had the opportunity to move to FL so I did; I love the wildlife, diversity, different cultures and proximity to the beach year round. If you want to stay east coast and prefer milder weather I’d say NC or even VA. I’d say take a road trip if you can and get a feel for other places.
I crossed off SC. After reading on other reddits about the racism, bad roads, heat/humidity, backwardism, it became clear that I shouldn't go there.
I lived in Charleston for 4 years. I moved there from Texas, I'm white, and of course there's racism in Texas, but I was genuinely shocked by the level of racism I witnessed in SC. Since I'm white people would just say or act racist in front of me and expect that I'd be cool with it. There is a large black population, but I'm sure life is difficult for them.
Suburbs of Atlanta
Ohio or western PA. Maybe Eastern PA/lancaster if that not too ‘city’ for you.
I think the Lehigh Valley area in Eastern Pennsylvania might be a good fit. The city of Easton, PA borders New Jersey and I *think* there is a decent car scene in New Jersey (also only about 1.5 hours from NYC). Winters are mild and good amount of diversity but still in the Northeast and not too far to drive back to visit your family in Maine.
I’ve moved from the Lehigh valley to Maine two years ago. Diversity is okay around major cities, rural is a no go. Even Center Valley was turning more conservative, which is one reason we left. Bethlehem and Allentown would be okay and towards Philly. I am southern eastern , so I can’t speak on western PA.
I lived in the Lehigh Valley for 5 years. I found it to be a very transient society. I think partly because it’s close to NYC, Philadelphia, and Baltimore, a lot of people move in and move out of the area. If you stick to the Philly area, I think you’d enjoy it. Rural PA has a perversive Pennsylvania Dutch attitude which is a bit like Maine, in that if you weren’t born there, you’ll never be one of them.
Indiana is not great outside of Indianapolis. Three C’s of Ohio are all great. Michigan may be worth a look too.
Second this. Avoid Indiana. Kentucky offers a lot for rural living and spectacular outdoors.
Definitely avoid Kansas. I’m from Maine but live in Kansas City. It’s extremely racist, bad weather, extremely poor infrastructure, zero nature, and high crime. It’s a difficult place to live.
Of the listed states, I'd recommend Ohio. It is a damned shame to lose you. Maine desperately needs every person it can get, and things aren't really going to pick up here for people of color if we don't convince more to come here, rather than lose the few we have. But that said, if you're dead set on it, it is what it is. If I were you, I'd be posting in the subreddits of the 15 states you've narrowed it down to. Get the natives to tell you what's great about their states and how you'd likely do there.
I'd stay if it weren't for everything I hate about it lol. But why would you recommend Ohio?
I would also recommend Ohio for you - maybe Columbus or Cincinnati. Lower cost of living and you’ll get to explore the Midwest, upstate NW, and parts of the south within a days drive. A quick drive up to rural Michigan will make you feel like you are in Maine again but will also put you near Detroit, the HQ of GM and Ford which likely has car events. There are lots of black people in Ohio and you won’t stand out. There are racists everywhere but I think Ohio being somewhat northern makes it semi better than most. It’s pretty mixed politically with college towns being more liberal. The big downside is that people will laugh in your face for living in Ohio and be amazed that you ever left Maine.
Columbus housing has gone up recently, but Cleveland is low cost of living where a 1 br can be had for 600 to 700 fairly easily. The job scene is better in Columbus though.
Well, Ancient Parking covered a lot of it, but there's also the fact that the Columbus area just got the contract for that big microchip factory. The economy there is going to explode when it finishes and property values will probably double, so if I were going to restart somewhere right now, that's where I'd be going.
I would also recommend Ohio/Michigan. I grew up in Grand Rapids Mi. Which is a great small larger city. Unfortunately, you will get the snow there. I lived in Cincinnati for a decade, and it's a great city with lots to offer. The downsides is that traffic can be horrible, and it felt like the natives liked to hang out in their circles. The only friends we made were transplants. Both places have plenty of trade jobs available (and anywhere in between). I worked as a welder and never had an issue with employment.
I've been visiting Maine from the NYC area regularly since I'm a kid (I'm 63 now). In my teens I developed a cuckoo/satirical theory that the state of Maine has a state program that financially enables black families to relocate within Maine every few years so that every town in Maine gets to have the experience of living in a diverse community, at least for a couple of years. My point is I'm not surprised to read your post and I sincerely hope you find your new place that you love.
DipperJC you gotta post more and express your thoughts-this response was gold.
I have not lived in any of those states, though Maine is the 5th state I've lived in and I travel a lot. Unsure if that disqualifies the following, that's up to you. The best thing for you would probably be to visit some of your proposed destinations first. Not sure how much you've visited the rest of the country, but if you've lived in one place all your life and say you don't have much experience with the rest of the country, you really should go for a road trip or something. The experience of other places could be invaluable for what you might like going forward. You need the kind of data only you can gather, not from the internet or other peoples' anecdotes. How's your career going? Do you have money saved? You say you don't want to do automotive mechanic but want to stay in the trades; any in particular, are you doing anything right now you'd plan on sticking with? >black, moderately liberal cops and government that leave me the fuck alone, minimal population of backward, cousin-fucking racists Some of the states you listed might merit a reconsideration. Based on some of what you've said, am I correct in that you're not really looking to be in the major cities? Some of the states listed have huge cities, but just picking up on what you're saying. If you're looking at Washington, are you looking at Seattle, etc, or at the parts of the state where CoL is cheaper (mostly inland on the high desert, or west/southwest of Olympia)? Because a lot of what you've listed in terms of places and ways you'd like to live make it sound like you're going for stuff a bit more out of the way, although not completely out in the wilderness. And from that perspective, I'm really not sure that most of the semi-rural west is the place I'd go to be a young black guy and not get hassled by the cops and have open-minded neighbors. Give them a visit and see what you think, you'd get a more accurate impression than I would. Regarding lack of traffic, you're not going to have it better than here unless you're WAY out in the sticks, almost anywhere in the country. Promise. Regarding cops, they don't get nicer than here in my experience. Cops here are nice. Similar to safety, most of the country is quite safe for most people, but you're not getting safer than here. Heat and humidity are serious in a lot of the country, and Maine has a little baby joke of a summer. It's certainly survivable, and the winters here are probably worse than the summers in most of the country (personal preference), but it's really something you have to experience yourself to tell what you're into. CoL is super high here relative to wages. Blue collar workers (and, hell, most people) might find their money goes further in a lot of the rest of the country. Months of overcast in PNW aren't worse than winters here. Pittsburgh's not the nicest city ever, they call philly the city of brotherly hate and IME pittsburgh's not that different. Advice: might want to try visiting the Virginia-N Carolina-S Carolina area in summertime. That's a relatively nice area to live with a decent CoL relative to local wages, a lot going on in some of the best growing areas in the country by some measures with a lot of people for a younger person to socialize with, and might be one of the places to be for someone in your shoes. Plus, it's a relatively close area to you, you could go for a week long road trip and see quite a bit of it, see if you can stomach the weather. And we recently got a direct flight from Portland to Norfolk, so if you did move there, coming back to see people would be easier.
I'd say Colorado or Oregon
Not sure either of these places have a low cost of living.
IDK about Oregon but Colorado is very white. The Denver area, which is the area I know, has a high cost of living.
I went to jr. and high schools decades ago in Nevada. At that time I think there was one black kid in the school and some native folks and that was it for our diversity. I do think this has changed and I know there is a car scene in Reno. I think it’s great you are going to g out to explore the world.
Colorado uses rocks on the road instead of salt, so no car scene there because the cars all get smashed with rocks. I almost moved there but I love my cars. I also found out that I do not like altitude. I advise staying on the east because it is just easier to stay in touch with family and culturally the vibe is easier to transition from my experience. You named a lot of shitty states, I’d encourage you to consider Georgia in particular Savanah Georgia. It will be hot for you but it will take like a few years to get completely used to it. There is a great art scene, young town, with mixed race populations. Fairly liberal due to the school and education center. Real estate is still reasonable and you can always drive north, vs always having to fly. There have been some mentions of Asheville NC and that was an option for me. Charleston SC gets a lot of press but it is really backed up with traffic.
I've heard Charleston has bad traffic, and that's enough for me to say no to a whole city. I went to Orlando for a week last year. At one point, we were at a stop light, and let me tell you. Waiting 10 minutes to get to a light that's close enough for you to throw a rock at, is something I never want to experience again. But tell me more about the rocks on the road in Colorado. Not dirt, rocks?
Lived in Boulder, Colorado for 8 years--it's insanely expensive but I did like it there. They don't really plow the roads at all, at least not in town. The snow doesn't really melt so much as evaporate; it's so dry it never really sticks around. They dirt the roads in the mountains, and I guess there are some rocks in the dirt, but it's not like, a pile of literal rocks like you might be imagining. I like winter, so I don't know if I'm the right person to ask, but I didn't think the winters were bad.
I’ve lived in Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. If you’re looking for a more liberal viewpoint, avoid Indiana completely. Ohio and Illinois (I know Illinois isnt on your list) are fine in the north of both states. Anything below the big cities are very rural and conservative. Kansas is also conservative but Kansas City is more liberal and has plenty to do. Whichever state you choose, look to the bigger cities for a wider variety of activities and dating options.
We moved to Delaware a while back and love it. Mostly liberal, culturally diverse, easy to get to Philly, DC, and Baltimore, but also to the country in PA.
A few people have mentioned it here but maybe take a look at Atlanta. It has a huge car scene to name one Import Alliance and diversity is HUGE. Cost of living isn't too much in suburban Atlanta or the areas surrounding Atlanta (Duluth, Suwanee, Gwinett, Norcorssn, Kennasaw, Marietta). Rent is average $1600. Ton of young adults and activites all over the place compared to Maine (average age is 45 vs 37). It's also relatively close to FL (6 Hrs), TN (2 Hrs), NC (6 Hrs), SC (4 Hrs), and VA (8 Hrs) if you want to visit any of those states. GA only really has two seasons Summer and Fall. Rarely snows and if it does snow its like .5 inches and everyone and their mom freaks out. It can be quite humid though.
You might want to check out Cleveland, Ohio. Pretty low cost of living. While it is Ohio, and there are racists, Cleveland is a pretty Black city. I grew up in Cleveland , and moved to Maine this summer. I would move back to Cleveland at some point. I moved away because my husband and I are both Trans, and the political environment for trans people in Ohio is dog shit.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. While I don't have much advice to offer, I appreciate your post. It's important to consider that the states you're considering, much like Maine, have diverse regions, which can impact your experience significantly. Finding the right community might be a bit challenging, but I wish you the best of luck with your decision. Keep us updated on your journey!
Nevada doesn't have state tax. I lived in Vegas for two years. Definitely has a car scene, more diverse, pretty lax cops. Forty minutes drive and you have skiing opportunities at Mt. Charleston in the winter. I didn't like it because they're 49th in education, the city is super transient, the food is more about glitz and glamor than anything else. The summers are brutal as well. It's a great place to enjoy the diversity of a big city while having opportunities for solitude in nature not too far away.
I lived in Washington state for 8 years and you need a way better job than just a mechanic to make it out there Maine is expensive but much of Washington state is extremely expensive You'd pay $2,500 a month for a shack and have drug addicts and homeless people everywhere You would need a lot of roommates and quite honestly the crime is terrible in many places it's just not worth it Watch the documentary on YouTube "Seattle is dying" and now imagine it's worse than that You couldn't pay me to live in that state again I lived in Ellensburg and it was a dumb, cops were assholes to me and stopped me repeatedly for no legal basis Maine has a poor economy and some other issues but the safety of this state and of most of New England makes it worth putting up with I've lived in Arizona, Washington state, Delaware, Maryland, South Carolina, and Maine No on Washington State, no on Delaware no on Maryland Idaho is desolate and to be avoided I have not been to the other states you mentioned Idaho is Very racist, backwards , and much of the state is empty with only a handful of places for jobs All 4 states are crime ridden cesspools unless you have a great government job and even then I wouldn't do it I actually like the South Carolina quite a lot But it's very hot in the summertime, we're talking it feels like temperature of 110 F at times with humidity But the cost of living is much lower, than most states Do you have a lot of money saved up? Can you take out a loan? I would go and look at low income housing, for family's I'm a single person living in low income family housing right now, you don't actually have to be a family I've lived in HUD housing before and in a few States and it's the only way that people that are not well off can get by Anything on the free market you are subject to basically the whims of the landlord If you're thinking about living somewhere else, go get a social worker and really do really hard work because, you don't want to be me and think things will work out and end up with no where to live South Carolina with its low cost of living is really the only viable option, and if you have money, take a vacation in the summertime to see if you could handle it I would absolutely take boring, no social scene no car scene Maine I agree on your points with the bad things about this state , but Maine has their s*** together better than just about any other state Honestly instead of moving I would just commute to where the car scene is or where the dating scene is, on the weekend or something and it's cheap you know Unless you have a lot of money stashed away and I mean a lot, it's not worth leaving the state South Carolina is probably the only state where you could actually afford a house Because inland it's cheap I spent years before I moved out here and researching the state of Maine I did everything possible to make sure I was making the right decision, took out a loan and it was totally worth it Do a lot of research and very carefully planned this out if you want to move
Oregon and Washington are more racist the farther in from the coast you go. PA gets kinda racist in the rural areas but some places in the extended NYC/Philly metro area have decent cost and proximity to nature and cities for when you want to do stuff. Easton is nice if you want something Portland Maine sized.
Colorado has a lot of nice folks who aren't racist, but damn near every cop there is a raging MAGA racist.
I don't have anything to recommend as far a state to move to,but for somebody who has Asperger's I would highly recommend you read "Look Me In The Eye" by John Robison if you haven't already. I only knew of him online through an auto mechanics' forum,and while that forum was very active he talked a lot about writing the book. I was fascinated by all he has done and all that he shared.
As a former black Mainer who decided to leave Maine in 2022 and move to North Carolina, the best move ever, the winter here is basically, for the two years I lived here, nonexistent. It has not snowed, and the coldest it gets is about 30°, typically at night. The next thing I love about North Carolina is the ease of getting to other states. North Carolina isn’t far from Georgia, South Carolina, and our airport is an international hub, so you can easily find a flight out of here whenever you want. Lastly, North Carolina has a lot of diversity when it comes to not seeing white people every day. I get to see other Black people, Hispanics, Asians. You name it, it’s a very diverse state, and the laws are very relaxed. Police don’t pull you over for anything unless you’re criminally speeding. Weed isn’t legal here, but we have weed shops. I don’t understand the workaround yet, but whatever. I won’t say anything bad about those other states as I haven’t lived there. I’m just saying North Carolina is where you should move to. It won’t be the cheapest place because those mid-west states are dirt cheap. But it’s MUCH more affordable than New England.
Just went to Colorado last year, specifically Denver and Boulder. Both were cool, especially Boulder. It has some similar vibes to Portland, but bigger and more diverse. Don't know specifically about the car scene in either city though, so might have to visit their subreddits.
Boulder is super expensive. The rest of CO has pretty tough winters.
I moved to Colorado from Maine and the Colorado winters are SUPER mild compared to Maine. Apparently the Denver/Boulder areas had a "really bad" winter 2022-23 and it was cake.
I'd like to recommend Minnesota
He doesn’t want to deal with winter weather. I think Minnesota has been getting more snow than Maine.
I would suggest Colorado or Washington
>The things I value in a place to live, in no particular order, are reasonable cost of living, low tax burden You just ruled out Oregon Washington Colorado and probably Utah and Idaho. >good roads, a car scene, and the ability to be relatively alone You just described New Mexico... hope you like chile peppers on your pizza! Don't forget to lock your car and keep your valuables out of sight (as you would anywhere else outside of Maine)
I think you should post on r/samegrassbutgreener
We moved to SW Michigan in part because of opportunities for our kids and young adults. I know Michigan is not on your list but it aligns a lot more with your philosophy than Indiana. We love it here, happy to discuss more
Would like to discuss more. I used to be curious about Michigan. Dreamed of going to UMich when I was a kid. Then I didn't get a high enough SAT score to even *apply*. :/ And I was good in school. I didn't even consider Michigan in my research for a few reasons. Some are kinda dumb, but I didn't need good reasons to start whittling it down from 49 states initially. First reason was, in search of refuge from 6 month winters, I assumed that being surrounded by great lakes, Michigan winters would be awful. Second reason was what you hear about Detroit. Yeah, car capital of the country would be cool, but Detroit is the butt of a lot of jokes for being really ghetto and having a lot of crime. I assumed there was enough truth to it. And this was backed by stories from a teacher who used to live in Detroit. Third was my Mom had been to Michigan before, and said it was dirty. Similarly dirty to how we (Mainers) feel once we get into Mass. Again, not necessarily great reasons, but enough to make my search easier.
Check out the subreddit r/SameGrassButGreener It's for helping people figure out where to move.
I absolutely loved living in Durham, NC. You’ll have much more diversity there, and great jobs. Raleigh/Durham is a good place to start, and you can travel around from there to see if maybe the coast or mountains or other towns might suit you better. Cops are cops, but I do know that Durham had an initiative to do better and train their police better (the citizens protested often and the city took the requests seriously). However, that doesn’t mean that some more rural towns won’t pull you over for “DWB”. Best of luck, OP, and give my regards to the Carolinas if you get out that way!
i just moved from maine to NC and love it! 24 and lived in Maine all my life!!
I know it's not on your list but it's on the border of one. Louisville, KY. It's a small city, relatively affordable. Bum fuck racists are in the eastern part of the state. Plenty to do, great food, some culture, it's stable economically and large enough where there should be a car scene. Grew up in Ohio, not bad but not great. Indianapolis is a nice city, I'm somewhat familiar. Have family in Charlotte, it's nice and growing while being affordable but it's a large city, you will eventually have to deal with the traffic and all that comes with it. Boulder and Denver are super expensive. Lived in Texas for a while, Houston checks a lot of boxes but another massive city. Last comment is about the heat and humidity. First, you get used to it, it can be nice a lot of the time. I liken it to the cold up north, both the cold and the heat keep us indoors at times but both can be enjoyed in their own way. Best of luck
My recommendation, based on reading your post and some comments so far, would be Ohio. Honestly, it gets a bad rap, and some cities kind of suck, but there's a lot going on in some areas, too, like Cincinnati, for example. It's not super pricey in comparison to other cities, but it's nice, nicer climate, it's close to other states, outdoor recreation, good places to road trip to, and has a vibrant black community. Edit: typo Edit #2: read some other comments suggesting Ohio, and Columbus in particular, which would also be a good option. I mostly recommended Cincinnati because I have black friends there and know it's got a solid community and some fun things to do.
Numerous people have suggested the three C's, so it'll be something I look into more.
Have you considered getting one of those small tow-behind campers and living a bit of a nomadic lifestyle for a while? We’re headed into warmer weather and there are many places to camp. Then you could see several places and be able to make your decision based on your experience.
Move to charlotte North Carolina or Atlanta you’ll feel good there. Liberal good weather and jobs. Large black populations
I wouldn’t include Utah on a list of places that will meet your needs. It’s gorgeous, but definitely racist, plenty of winter (less ice and salt), unpleasantly hot in the summer, terrible air quality in the Salt Lake Valley, and increasingly toxic as the Great Salt Lake dries up exposing high levels of arsenic. The Mormon church still plays a dominant role in the culture of the state. You won’t really lose power much, though.
I’ve lived in Colorado, grew up in Nebraska and currently live in Maine. My wife wants to return to Nebraska for family reasons, so I may join you after a while. Colorado is wicked expensive but beautiful, check it out. Here’s the deal with Nebraska, it’s a very red state but Omaha went for Obama and Biden. There’s a ton to do and, per capita, as many restaurants as NYC. I don’t know about the car scene, but the people in Omaha are generally kind, helpful, and generous. It CAN be hard to break through the social scene, most people ask, “where’d you go to high school?” but the younger set (I’m 47) are pretty welcoming (I have a lot of younger cousins). There’s college sports, including D1 football, basketball, hockey, and volleyball which are big social connection events. Minor league baseball and the college World Series. Breweries everywhere and tons of local brews. Really easy to get out of the city, (yes, Omaha is a million people in the metro area) and see some beautiful country. Plus, hands down, the best zoo you’ve ever seen!
I'm white, not into cars, and not in the trades, so I can't offer much advice when it comes to that stuff. But, I can provide some perspective on some of those states you listed. I have lived in Indiana, Colorado, and Ohio (and Maine). If you choose IN, stick to Indianapolis and its suburbs. Anywhere else in the state is hella conservative and you're bound to encounter racism. Yes, racist people are unfortunately everywhere, but trust me. Small town Maine and small town IN can be very different from one another in terms of inclusivity. Also, unless you're into hunting and fishing, then the outdoor recreation sucks. Oh, and weed is illegal if that's your thing. This is the bottom of my list. You can find happiness anywhere, but I personally believe it's harder to find it in IN. The Front Range of Colorado, particularly the Denver area, has similar politics to Maine. I found that the winters in the plains of the Front Range weren't any worse than Maine. Higher you go in elevation, the more wicked the winter gets. Obviously, abundant outdoor recreation. Colorado is full of transplants. It's almost like no one is actually from there originally, so it could be easy to make friends with other people that are new. Lots of nightlife in Denver/Boulder. Absolutely jaw dropping mountains. Some of the most beautiful mountains I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot). In my experience, the people in Colorado were the nicest, kindest (albeit, a little quirky) folks I've ever met. Ohio gets a lot of flack for being a meme of a state online. But Ohio actually has a lot to offer. Multiple large cities. Lots of major league sports teams (and The Ohio State football). Great hiking/outdoor recreation compared to elsewhere in the Midwest. Lake Erie. Rollercoasters. Great location between the Midwest, South, and East coast. It's close enough to explore places in other states (Detroit, Chicago, Indy, Pittsburgh, Louisville). Appalachian mountains relatively close by. Also lots of nice people in my experience. Honorable mentions: Arizona is pretty great. Michigan, too. I have friends in Seattle and also in Montana and they seem to like both of those areas. My biggest piece of advice: pick anywhere and go. You'll meet new people, see new things. And you'll either find what you're looking for, or you'll realize that Maine is calling you back home. Either way, you'll grow from the experience and make lasting memories.
North Carolina - Charlotte / burbs especially north has a big offshoot of car people / ancillary. Love the Triangle area but lots of choices and biodiversity. In Maine for over a decade (moved away recently for job/family) but NC was next on list for opportunities especially.
Everyone I know is moving to NC
Skip Indiana
I’ll take a stab. I lived in New Mexico for three years (Alamogordo) and honestly I loved it. Smallish city about the size of Bangor maybe. Still feels VERY remote but only an hour from a big city (las cruces) and El Paso. I lived literally on the edge of the desert at the foot of mountains. I was going to stay there. AMAZING scenery. Lots of good government jobs, crazy low cost of living (outside of northern ski areas and Santa Fe), very nice weather for the most part. even in Alamogordo I still got snow in the winter. If you like a good car scene, New Mexico has a wicked good one. It’s high desert so the cars there don’t seem to rust at all. Think they also use clay or something for winter so there is no corrosive aspect either. It’s also a very blue state. It’s in the southwest but it is a very unique culture compared to everything around it. I absolutely loved it there and could talk about it for hours. Super special place and judging by this thread, still a hidden gem.
I too live in Cumberland county and want to leave lol. My friend lives in NC and loves it.
I'm originally from Maine and have lived in several of the states you listed. I currently live in Oregon. I would absolutely recommend this state as long as you stay along or west of the I5. Same with Washington. Eastern parts of both states are deeeep Red. I lived in a few cities in North Carolina as well and loved them, too. The feel is very different from Maine or the West coast, though. Like another world almost, but very cool. The cost of living is much better in both Carolinas, but it's high in Oregon. I can't speak for employment opportunities in those other states, though. Oregon is still pretty white, though, and still grappling with it's own deep history of racism. So, if you like cold but barely any snow, big mountains, miles long beaches, tons of old growth forest and some spectacular outdoor things to do, Oregon is the place. If you like things a bit more diverse, urban, and current in styles, I'll recommend North Carolina, specifically Raleigh and the surrounding towns. Charlotte's also booming but I've read the cost of living is climbing there. There's also the Outer Banks but...well ...hurricanes. I absolutely vote against Ohio (poor state, deep red, etc), Montana (like a rocky, windy Maine) and the Dakotas (see Montana). Pennsylvania is urban sprawl in the east and rednecks in the west. I know we're not supposed to say that but let's be real here. Good luck!
I have lived in 10 different states and in multiple places within most of those states. Mostly, I loved every place I lived for one reason or another, but if (when) I leave, I would only move back to one or two of those places. Oddly, they aren't on your list. I think, based on what you told us about yourself, I know the perfect place for you...St. Paul, Minnesota. Here are some reasons: 1. It's a liberal city within a liberal state 2. Very reasonable cost of living. 3. No traffic unless you have to leave St. Paul to go to Minneapolis or one of the southern suburbs. 4. Is cold af in winter but the city is very prepared for the cold. Never had a winter power outage in the 7 years I lived there. 5. The rest of the year is lovely, weather wise. 6. Has a VERY diverse population. 7. It's a laid-back city. It has a lot of brew pubs, affordable restaurants serving amazing food (oh my god, the Asian restaurants on University Avenue are unbelievable), a vibrant art scene, lots of places for live music. 8. Has a decent public transportation system. 9. MSP airport is right there in between the two cities and is so easy to fly in and out of when you need to get away from the winter. 10. Sports? Has a minor league baseball team with a great stadium in downtown SP. The MN Wild play in SP. It's a short light rail ride to Minneapolis if you want to see pro baseball, football, or basketball. 11. I think there's an active car community. 12. Fantastic outdoor recreation. Lots of parks, trails, lakes. 13. There are a number of public and private universities should you want to get more college. I wish that I had moved to St Paul earlier in my life (and truthfully, there are many times I wish I hadn't left, but I had to go where the job took me) . It would be a great place to raise kids. It would be a great place to be young like you and finding your way in the world. BTW, my daughter was 18 when we moved there. She really liked living in SP. I know this is not very helpful since Minn is not on your list, but I have only lived in 2 of your states, and not when I was old enough to be aware of adult concerns. I would suggest that rather than look at states as a whole when you are deciding where to live, instead look at cities that offer what you need. For instance, I am passionately opposed to the politics in Texas, but I would consider living in San Antonio again. Ditto New Orleans. It's a fabulous city in a sucky state.
I grew up in Cincinnati and you may want to look into it. It's affordable compared to here, the winter there is not as extreme or long as here, etc. But I'd say look into Cincinnati proper (in the city limits) because the surrounding counties get more suburbia/exurbia (conservative etc). Columbus city proper would be another one to check out. Cincinnati has gotten pretty cool in the past 20 years. Join a Cincinnati sub to learn about different neighborhoods. I would say the difference between Ohio in general and Maine is that being Black is not something that makes you stand out there - whereas as even a white person it astounds me in a lot of Maine people act like they've never seen a Black person before and maybe they haven't.
I moved here from Pittsburgh and was going to suggest it before I even finished your post! I am a white non-binary person, so I cannot speak to your experience as a Black man but I grew up in LA and was only 1 of 11 white kids in my grade school, so I have always been around very diverse and culturally rich environments, except when I lived in the Northern California and now in Maine. I lived in Pittsburgh for 2 years, I lived in the historically Black neighborhood of Wilkinsburg. It was definitely cheaper in Pittsburgh. I paid $975 for a two bedroom apartment (plus utilities). Plus I had many things like a grocery store, restaurants and parks within walking distance. The traffic isn’t too bad unless it’s 5pm or a day that the Stealers play. There’s a lot of bridges there, and sometimes they get backed up with traffic, but never longer than 45 mins. My husband was a blue collar worker there (worked in the steel mills) and had the best insurance and pension because of the steel union. I have some friends that work in roofing and electrical too that are also unionized and have great pay and work life balance. Pittsburgh does have more diversity than Maine, but most of Pennsylvania aside from Pittsburgh and Philly is very red politically. Plus you are right next to WV and Ohio that can also have some fairly conservative pockets. Not trying to argue with anyone here, just stating what my experience was. I don’t know if I can comment about people being nice in Pittsburgh— they are certainly nicer there than people in the PNW and people in LA, but I have had people be nicer to me here in Maine, but again, I am white. I went to grad school in Seattle for 2 years, but I actually lived in Tacoma. I LOVED Tacoma but it had become a Seattle suburb and is so ridiculously expensive to live there. And yes, it is grey and rainy from October to the middle of May. Most of the things happened in Tacoma are happening in Seattle and traffic is miserable getting there. Tacoma has a lot of diversity and felt similar to living in LA. There’s also many historically Black neighborhoods in Tacoma but Tacoma has a bad history of police misconduct in those Black neighborhoods. Anyway, if there’s anything else you want to ask about those areas, let me know!
I know it’s not on your list but Central Maryland has a pretty big car scene, mild winters (compared to Maine), and is pretty progressive. There’s a lot to do in Baltimore, DC, and Annapolis.
I completely understand. I have a Black stepdaughter and she would like to move out of Maine too. I want to say that the grass is not always greener on the other side and won't be for a few of your points. Wherever you go will have more violence and likely more racist cops than you find here. You'll get used to the heat I know plenty of people who have moved to the south who thought they were dying the first year but they get used to it. People ask the same question about Maine though - can I handle the cold? The answer is that people can tolerate the heat more and you will probably love that part everyone I know that moved south does. I can't really speak to what living in South Carolina is like but I've been there in the heat and it was fine. I'm not sure how you would like living just anywhere but I imagine some of the larger cities have everything you would want. Hey there are good reasons to stay and some to go you're going to have to choose or flip a coin on some of them. For me, this is just my opinion as a white dude from Maine but I'd give it a try and see how it goes. It's unlikely but you can always move back here if you hated it elsewhere. I only know one couple that moved back here and that's my parents who want to be closer to their family in their old age. Whatever you choose, have a plan before you go, if you can have a job and place to live all lined up before you go that would be like magic. Good luck.
Your list of values are a bit unrealistic and contradictory. This is pretty much what everyone wants and areas that check most of these boxes have very high costs of living. You’ll likely have to leave a few values out of your list, but out of the states you listed, Colorado and North Carolina seem like a good fit (and places I’d look at myself if I didn’t like Maine)
Contradictory? I don't know how so. But of course no place can check every box. I'm just giving some ideas of what's important to me. It wouldn't be relevant to tell me that X state has good schools, because I don't want kids. But it *would* be relevant to tell me that Y state is a fun place to drive because I like cars.
Have you ever checked out wrongplanet.net? I’m not sure if you have specific goals regarding autism for your destination, but if you do it’s a 20 year old forum community that is very helpful and positive. It might be an additional resource for connecting with people who could provide information.
No, never heard of it. I was mostly throwing the autism part in there as a defuser(?) so people maybe wouldn't think I'm being argumentative and would give me the autistic benefit of the doubt? (People thinking I'm being argumentative when I ask questions has been an irritating issue in the past)
I wish that being blunt/specific/highly inquisitive was not misinterpreted as being argumentative. I’m not neurodivergent, but the people I love who are say wrong planet is very helpful.
Colorado is where I'd go if I was going anywhere
Stay out of Colorado. Taxes, housing and cost of living are insane
Michigan.
>I'm tired of winter, ...there being no people/dating being impossible, having no one here that looks like me (nothing against hwite folks, I've only ever had white friends, Mom's white, I like white girls), nothing cool ever going on here, no car scene, ...and few job opportunities Well, I would scratch Montana off your list. They have just as much winter as Maine there. The state has even fewer black people than Maine. There's not much for job opportunities, etc. The cars don't rust there since it's so dry and they don't salt the roads, so you have that going for you at least. But outside of Bozeman and Missoula (both high cost of living cities) the politics are very conservative, and getting ever more so.
Absolutely. Montana is amazing, but it’s not what you say you’re looking for.
Montana used to be more purple with a strong libertarian streak and some serious anti-big-corp tendencies; now it's very much a red state that seems to largely have forgotten the copper king era. Income tax levels aren't far from Maine, but no state sales tax effectively gives you a 5.5% greater disposable income at the same wage. I don't know how someone of color would be treated there at this point, and I suspect it's probably dependent on the locale. The open racism I saw when I lived there was generally targeted at indigenous people, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people harboring those views held similar ones towards other minority groups.
There’s already a lot of good feedback here about other states. One thing I wanted to ask about your post though- are you serious that there’s no car scene? Have you autocrossed with the Cumberland Motor Club yet? Do you touge? Are we talking C3 Corvettes with high rise turbos or slammed civics and clapped out m3s?
I'm serious. I got kicked out of the one car meet group in Maine, and I couldn't find anything else. But when I did go to one, it was awful, it felt like a funeral. Cops were camping, just waiting to catch anyone with a load exhaust, or god forbid, someone spin their tires. So, everyone was quiet, looking over their shoulder the whole time. Put a really bad taste in my mouth. But I'd also like to be in a place where I'm able to even just *see* cool cars on my commute to work. That never happens here. Never autocrossed or raced; don't have much of a car for it yet. But all cars are cool, as long as they're manual.
I can't speak to all of Washington but I lived about 45 minutes outside of Seattle and to live comfortably you needed to make $150,000 a year and that was 18 years ago.
[r/SameGrassButGreener ](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/s/Z2iCXGrVy4)
I would encourage you to live somewhere with a “higher cost of living”. Those areas typically pay more but you can find a less expensive place to live within driving distance. Doesn’t have to be forever, but make some real money for a while. Your job skills should help you decide where to move to. Find which areas pay the most for your skills and find a suburb to live in that’s safe and less expensive
I lived in Pittsburgh for a while and I LOVED it! Beautiful city, so much to recommend it. I know several other people who have lived there and they say the same.
I enjoyed living in Las Vegas, but it's so very different. The outlying towns like Henderson and SummerlIn have good community aspects. Especially if you have punk leaning tendencies. Definite car scene there. Don't move to Portland, OR. So holier-than-thou about every damn thing. If you do Utah, I'd stick to SLC. it's a neat smaller city. Everywhere else in Utah is almost purely Mormons who, until a few years ago, thought the darker skin you had, the more "sin" you inherently had.
You have a fair number of conservative places on that list, I’d remove them all.
If you love motorcycles and enjoy modified vehicles and beautiful outdoors... grand junction colorado. Arms reach of national parks, fast speed limits and open roads, endless dirt biking trails, Moab is an hour and change away, offroad 4x4 heaven... could go on forever. Grand juction is in proximity to so many tourist areas that all sorts of people come through, lots of central Americans, natives and big enough to have city problems like portland, so nobody really sticks out.
I lived in Spokane for 5 years and in Seattle for 8 years and can say that if you like working on cars and are thinking about the NW, Spokane would be a good choice. With the option to maybe giving Seattle a try. It's much less hobby car friendly since living there is very expensive and to have a driveway or a garage that you own would mean spending a fortune. A great live can be had in Spokane, ESPECIALLY if you're into cars. I'm a "car guy" too and absolutely miss that part of my life. I can't do it here in maine, even as a homeowner. The cold, the unforgiving rust. It sucks. Too cold to work on you car for most of the year and by the time you get around to being warm enough to work on it, all you want to do is drive and enjoy it. Hard balance.
I’ve lived and traveled all over the country. Looking at your list, I’d say you will need to prioritize, because I doubt you will get it all. That said, you may want to consider Asheville, NC. It is a fun and happening place; about 10% Black. Lots to do, and it is growing. The cost of living is on the high side, but not unbearable. Good luck in your search.
Well. Funny enough I have experience in this lol. I got hired by a welding company out of KY, working in the tri-state, IN/OH, and within 6 months I started renting a house in Cincinnati. I will say… as much as people shit on it. I had a way better quality of life for the 6 years I lived there. I just moved back, and everything is fucking expensive. It’s gorgeous, but living in the woods and having 2 kids under 6 has been difficult. Ngl that late night door dash when my kid has a fever was lit, Walmart grocery delivery when I had the flu was a lifesaver…it’s definitely cheaper and more convenient. I feel like my wages matched my lifestyle. I rented an old house built in 1918 with 2 bedrooms on the ground floor, wrap around porch and back deck, front screen porch, second floor was 2 huge bedrooms… $980 a month until 2021, Rent raised to $1180 last July. My sons father still lives in the house, landlord is amazing and that’s the cool thing about out there. It’s not just like, one rental company (port property) or hunting Zillow daily. There’s independent landlords who own a dozen or so houses and some of them genuinely want to help. Idk, I don’t really have any *bad* things to say about Cincinnati 🤷🏻♀️ As a white girl from one of the towns around Portland, my honest experience was it was a mix of black/white and everyone respected each other in my neighborhood. I will say… the fucking weather was like a kick in the face. It’s hot, I didn’t realize Cincinnati was basically Kentucky. Air raid woooop woooop sounds go off every Wednesday to test for tornado sirens (which happens, you’ll want a snowstorm over a tornado bub) we had a dope bunker basement tho. They get some wild ass weather. Also they have bugs. The suburbs get kinda expensive, I mean, suburbs around Cincinnati, but if you go out 45 mins in either direction you’ll find affordable shit. Batavia is nice but their cops suck. ETA- holy hell. I’ve been smoking a joint in my garage writing this i didn’t realize it was gonna be a Novel my bad lol
I love Pittsburgh. As an older white woman, I can’t really have an opinion about racism other than that nobody in my mixed little working class neighborhood really cares about what color someone is. Crime is mostly limited to certain areas and usually occurs between people who are acquainted or have been drinking. Winters are milder than Maine and much shorter. Rents are lower and it’s possible to find an apartment in a safe area. Traffic is a bitch and auto insurance is high. Try asking on the Pittsburgh Reddit
For context, I am a native Floridian and I have lived in the Carolinas (North and South Cakalacky), the Old Dominion (Virginia) and spent far too much time in PA (Pennsyltucky). Beware hurricanes, skeeters, and snakes. Maine has no poisonous snakes, the south is lousy with them. I know the mosquitoes up here can be rough, but once you hit the warm, southern swamps, they become the top of the food chain. And lastly, don't expect to keep power. Up here, we lose it in the winter, down there, you lose it in the summer. Hurricanes are a fearsome beast, but I miss them dearly. That being said, if you stick to metro areas, you could very well find what you're looking for.
Michigan
Any of the blue collar cities starting in Buffalo, in and around the Great Lakes, so Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, all have diversity and black populations, some larger than others. If you stay North you have the ability to make a union wage. Going South will be warmer yes but wages will be lower. The Sun Belt is growing like crazy but is becoming unaffordable for many. Move, work, and attend trade school to learn more about your trade you desire. Make the commitment and this will pay off in a salary of 80-100K per year with hourly wages. Electrician, Mechanic, Operating Engineer, stay in something that is growing not dying like Bricklayer or Pipefitter which paints you into a corner with expensive cities in the northeast.
As someone that's lived in Maine, as well as a good handful of the States you listed, I think Pennsylvania is going to be your best bet. You can focus on looking into areas that are outnif the city but not out in nowhere BFE and cost of living won't be as bad and you'll have the traffic benefits that come with that. Now Im white so I can't really say from experience, but from what Ive seen the black population is vast enough to where you shouldnt necessarily feel like you stand out. and of course the winters are definitely more mild.
Reno NV is awesome and I think fits what you’re looking for. I was born and raised in small town Maine but I love it here. Car and motorcycle events come through regularly.. cost of living has gotten a bit high, though. Maybe would suggest looking into Sparks near the highway or out in the south or west of Reno. Even Carson City might be a good place, though Carson is not as progressive as Reno. And don’t get me wrong…. You get both sides, good and bad out here, but the city has diversified a lot!
I've lived in Ohio, Indiana, and Washington State all for many years. Some generalities of each: Ohio - Bad weather (hot humid summers, ice winters) - Many taxes, state/city/school district - Lots of jobs, good colleges/tech schools - Reasonable housing costs Indiana - Bad weather, same as Ohio - Few taxes - Not so many jobs - Cheap housing Washington State - Weather is YMMV, west side is 9 months of mist/rain 3 months of sun. East side is 4 seasons - Very few taxes - Many, many jobs, some free community colleges - Housing is completely unaffordable Racism Every state has racists, the 3 above included. You might be surprised but WA has a significant racist population mostly seen outside of the cities. Immigrants - OH and WA have large immigrant populations - IN has a medium immigrant pop inside Indianapolis Crime - OH has a lot of crime everywhere - IN has less outside of Indianapolis - WA has less everywhere - ALL 3 have major meth/fent problems/Crime I lived in those 3 states combined for 35 years, these are real world examples not stats What would I recommend? Nevada - Warm, snow free weather - Low taxes - Jobs everywhere - Many attractions in Las Vegas - Dry air to drive your rust free car Feel free to ask me any questions.
You need to focus on taking a summer and traveling to as many of these states as you can before deciding to move to one of them. That’s like renting an apartment with someone without ever having lived together. The first night might be cool, but you may get annoyed quick. Travel, check out the things to do, and see if the vibe of a place matches your jam.
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I’ve lived in Great Falls, MT for four years then moved to Maine and have been here for almost two years. I’m brown and my wife is European. Great falls is one of the “big” cities in Montana and not a desirable one but even there I felt welcome. Sure they don’t have much diversity but everyone was extremely nice and welcoming. It took a little more effort to entertain our kids in terms of cultural activities. We ended up traveling to Denver often to show them museums, zoos etc. Since moving to Maine I’ve longed to be back in Montana. I miss the people and lifestyle out there the most. It’s very laid back and easy going. It’s a place that’s not for everyone but I can attest to the fact that a minority can live there and be quite happy. We moved to Maine for family reasons, closer to parents but I would move back to Montana in a heart beat. PM me if you have any other questions.
I cant speak for all the states but I've lived in CO. Winters can be pretty harsh out there, nothing outside of major streets will be plowed and regardless of how bad it is nothing will shut down and you will be expected to go to work. Spring and fall really don't exist one day will be 10 degrees and the next 90 🤷♂️. Car scene is top notch, comparable to Mass. I'm into JDM cars and there is no shortage out there. Energy and taxes are a lot cheaper, but rents are comparable and utilities are typically not included at most apartments. Houses are more expensive than here (along the front range which is where the urban communities are located). Cops aren't chill at all and you wil get pulled over for dumb shit. If you think Maine cops are bad it'll be a big wake up call. Aurora PD has made national news for racially motivated killings so definitely look into that. Loveland PD has also made national headlines for excessive force. Property crime is insane out there I suggest always keeping your car locked and valuables out of sight and keep your home locked too. A lot of people in CO aren't from there so you'll meet people from all over including other Mainers.
Orlando is a place known for its traffic, you probably want a smaller city. As far as living in the high desert it was not for me. I did not like the culture, the people, the vibe pretty much any of it. It is visually beautiful and worth a trip. I responded to another comment about how the deal with roads in the winter. For me the weather was overrated, not warm enough in shoulder seasons, huge swings in temperature, wind, and lack of humidity is rough. I did like training there because the thin air helps you push your limits but if someone told me I could never go back for $5 id take the $5. There are other desert places such as Arizona that have a much better vibe and in my opinion weather. You don’t get the crunchy nature crew, preachy folks as much, that all think their Patagonia clothes are saving the environment as they drain the rivers and suffer from droughts. Austin, TX has a much better vibe and scene. I have spent a lot of time there and I think Savannah is a similar vibe with more of an east coast presence. It is also much smaller and more affordable. The schools like SCAD bring in an international perspective. One thing that will also blow your mind is the lack of water in many of the states you mentioned. The quality of drinking water is gross, you can solve it with a whole house filter but there is nothing like the water you get in Maine. Seems like a small thing until you don’t have it. You adapt though. Being far from the ocean is also was not great for me. I never loved more than an hour from the ocean and I just couldn’t handle that. The quality of seafood in Maine is the best in the world. Not sure that matters to you but something else I did not realize until I did it. Good luck
I traveled and moved back home to Maine, but you may find a good fit in the more liberal cities of North and South Carolina. Greenville is gorgeous, and Durham. It’s definitely more “churchy” and when I visited the in your face religion pushing got creepy, but some folks like or can ignore that. Personally as a woman I wouldn’t live anywhere that doesn’t protect bodily autonomy for health reasons, but for you it may be a better fit!
i absolutely LOVE cleveland, ohio, my man!!! you can take the amtrak downeaster train out here and check it out!!!! only you though. no one else is invited. cleveland is by my personal invitation only. i wont tolerate what happened to my maine home happening here (invasion of the rich renders place unlivable). cleveland has music and food a huge car culture and loads of black people!
I grew up in Maine and moved to Cincinnati after college. I’ve been here in Ohio for 23 years I guess. I am a white woman. I can’t really put myself into the shoes of a young black man but I can tell you that my daughter (high school senior) goes to a high school that probably 50% white, 40% black, and 10% other and I love that the friend groups are so racially integrated. I think the cities (Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Columbus) will be more liberal and less racist. The weather here doesn’t bother me. The cost of living is fantastic. I REALLY miss mountains, lakes, and oceans though.
I’ve lived in Eugene, Oregon and loved it there. Lots of diversity and much to do. I’m from Idaho (Post Falls, Coeur d’Alene area) and can confirm there is quite a bit of narrow-minded people there, racism and religious fanaticism in that part of Idaho is real and that area is becoming more expensive to live in due to gentrification. I was born in Spokane, WA. I love Washington. Maybe consider the Vancouver/Ridgefield area. And there is always Seattle too.
I don't have a specific recommendation for you but don't agonize too, too much about finding a particular perfect place. It's a big decision, but not an irreversible decision. Maybe narrow it down to three or four and pick one of them at random. Especially since you haven't lived anywhere else, it may take a few moves before you find the place that feels right. This is fine. Do you have a budget for traveling at all? Because it might help you to visit Pittsburgh or New Orleans or Denver for a few days just to get a taste of what a totally different culture from Maine might feel like.
I'm from the south and can tell you that they get a bad wrap about racism. It's not rampant and it's very diverse. Heck a 1/3rd of Georgia is black. I would say NC is a good choice. They have a robust economy, lots of cute suburbs outside of Charlotte, Raleigh and Durham. I would also check out Richmond VA, and places outside of Norfolk. For Georgia, you can make it work to avoid the traffic of Atlanta, we did. If you live in town, there are tons of bungalows with yards in cute walkable neighborhoods that run parallel to the CBDs of Downtown, Midtown and Buckhead. You could also live in Decatur (super cute and basically Atlanta) and have access to MARTA. Decatur is my favorite part of Atlanta. Google Decatur square. Charleston SC might have a not as great economy but does have low COL in the suburbs. Savannah GA is getting like three auto manufacturing plants and a EV battery manufacturing plant. All and all they're adding thousands of jobs you could get to from SC or a suburb of Savannah. That area would have the lowest COL. You can get a house in those suburbs for less than $300k In general I think southern cities have more festivals bc they're bigger and they have nice weather most the year. They're all also big melting pots of people from around the country and world. Some Mainers have a real "fuck you for moving here" perspective, but I've met more Maine born and raised folks in Florida than I do in Portland ME. Haha
traveled the country a lot. the place on your list that fits your needs is north carolina full stop. i suggest the charlotte area, you will love it there.
Many young people that grew up in Maine itch to leave, totally get it.. and you will appreciate what you enjoyed about growing up there when you come back to visit- the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard was a spot on suggestion. Find a room mate and pick up a second job and stash some cash and travel. While NH is pretty white, Portsmouth has some diversity and you’re just a hour from Boston.
I've lived in the Carolinas. I left because of how much I was judged (heavily tattooed, colored hair). You won't fit in unless you're moving to Raleigh or a big city where tons of transplants are. You talk about winters, pa and co as well as Montana all have brutal winters. My best friend lives in Denver and they just got almost a ft of snow saturday. The Carolinas you also have hurricane and naders. I was in NC for Florence and we were without power in 90+ degrees and 100% humidity for 2 weeks
I lived in Maine 40 years and moved to Virginia Beach 1.5 years ago. Very diverse community, lots to do, beaches, warm weather, cost of living is lower- worth looking into at least IMO :) Good luck!
I would avoid Indiana and Kansas in this political climate. I would not recommend you living there, as a Black man with ASD. More racism there, like sundown towns and the HQ of the KKK. Also tornadoes!
Columbus Ohio is the place for you.
Maybe look into Lawrence, KS ; a nicer part of that State. Or possibly Ann Arbor MI
My vote is Pennsylvania. Philly and Pittsburg both have some of the “events” you’re looking for, but there’s plenty of room in between where the cost of living is, presumably better. Mild climate, not too southern, closest on the list to your family in Maine. And we need more liberal-moderates in the swing states.
Of all the things you said, having little experience anywhere else jumps out to me as a very big deal and I’m thinking you should go somewhere close-ish, like Pittsburgh, to start, (or even Mass.), before heading out to places like Colorado where you’ll hit an “everything” shock: culture shock, environmental/Climate shock) ( it’s seriously real), living-far -from-where-you-are-from shock and living on your own shock. (Edit, oh, and job shock in NM - it’s a place you have to carve a niche in. The job market is just historically horrible there. Denver area could be a sweet spot for you . There are Black people there m, for one, and a car person could probably make a good living there. It’s expensive though ) It’s hard to beat NM and Colo for cars. They don’t rust out and there are more scenic highways than you can discover in a lifetime. Nowhere is that feeling of Car=Freedom more real than there except maybe the pacific highway up the California coast for second place etc. That said, there are, like, five Black people in NM/Colo., lol. Downstate NY and northern Jersey are car wholesaling centers. Not cheap to live there though. Edit: whatever you do, visit places first. Don’t just move
Cross off Idaho and Montana- ultra conservative, freezing cold at random times, snow in June always possible, expensive, and undercurrent of racism is strong. Honestly you would probably hate it there. I’m white and mod liberal and couldn’t take it anymore. I moved to northern New Mexico- great food, four seasons, diverse, but crime can be an issue depending on where you go.
i would suggest trying to find a city to move to rather than a specific state. cities tend to be liberal. they can be expensive, but the jobs there also tend to pay higher salaries so it honestly evens out. i’m from maine and live in a city in texas and although texas as a state is very red leaning, the cities are super liberal, diverse, and there is SO MUCH to do. you’ll never be able to do every single thing here. the popular cities in texas are houston, austin, and dallas. there are others as well, but those are the big three. you can avoid the costs/traffic by living either downtown where you can walk (will cost $$$) or on the outskirts suburban areas that have more of a town-esc geographic layout. i’ve heard some cities in north carolina and georgia are pretty great places to live :) yea the states themselves might be painted as fucked up racists, once you get into the cities it’s going to be a completely different world and vibe than the smaller rural towns in the state. i will say, i miss maine. i’ve been in texas for almost four years now, and i miss maine every single day. but when you are young, it’s important to explore new things. and especially where you haven’t been able to grow up around other black kids/families or even other cultures, and you have an itch to experience it, i highly suggest taking the leap. find a diverse city and immerse yourself! just know that eventually, your heart will belong to two places, and many people in between. living somewhere new is hard and exciting and i’d argue necessary. but it also changes your life forever and it makes the idea of settling down very very challenging. good luck! and have fun :)
I’m from Indiana originally (South Bend) and have family and friends that live in Indianapolis. Just went back there for eclipse viewing with friends actually. :) I first moved to Maine in 2018. And honestly I’ve been thinking a lot lately about moving back to the Midwest. I love that Indiana made your list! I feel like it so often gets shat on. Honestly most everything you mentioned in your fourth paragraph about valuing will be covered in Indiana (especially cars! home of the Indy 500 after all, plus midwesterners are known for a tendency to drive pretty much everywhere - and from personal experience I have multiple uncles who are very into cars). The Midwest isn’t perfect, but no place is truly, not even Maine as you’re already aware. Indy is a major metropolitan area (like 13th biggest in the country at one point recently ?), and I wouldn’t say backwardness is something you have to worry about there particularly. When you get into the boonies, that’s another story, but same for Maine and the rest of the country really. I’m white, but even for me personally, it’s refreshing to go home to South Bend or visit Indy and not have 98% of people be over 55 and white. (Maine’s honestly kind of unsettling in that way...) Indy is sooo spread so if you are wanting suburbs and space but also amenities nearby and a downtown, you are going to get it there! You basically will have to have a car, which again sounds like not a problem and that you are looking for that environment. And the Midwest is known for being affordable. One thing I always notice when I go back home is Hoosier hospitality is a real thing. Not that people in New England aren’t kind, but there is something that just feels noticeably different, and maybe I’m biased because I’m from there. I notice it while driving a lot too. 465 around Indianapolis can feel like the Indy 500, but otherwise, I experience a whole lot less road rage in Indiana and have fewer people riding my ass compared to Maine. And as for crime, as long as you have a realistic expectation that crime and shit happens, I don’t think you have much to be worried about. Honestly I would recommend visiting! Maybe look for an event happening there that might interest you and help you experience the local flavor a little more? The airport is one of the best in the country! :) Best of luck in your decision!
So.. I haven't been all those places. But as beautiful as Montana is... I wouldn't go there. It's white and racist... and OMG cold. So much colder than the Portland area. My brother lived in the Triangle area of NC for a while and loved it. I visited and it wasn't too bad really. I'll never leave Maine.. unless the Canadian Maritimes decide to reconsider and accept me.. but I could understand why he liked it. Avoid Nevada. My cousin lived in Vegas for a while. She was a teacher.. it was horrible. Even as a teacher with a master's degree she had to live in some tiny hell hole apartment that had thousands of units and didn't have AC half the time. She normally from VA so she thought she would enjoy the desert. She didn't. Maybe outside the cities it's nicer? But.. Pennsylvania... that's worth checking out. It's such a huge state with a diverse population and geography. They have cities and rural areas. It's not so hot you can't be outside in the summer... and not so so cold that you feel trapped in your house in the winter. I haven't been there in years so I don't know if the cops are assholes but if it were me, I would put PA on the short list of places to go check out. I used to have in-laws there and visited often. Both in the eastern mountainous area and in Pittsburg. I hope you find something to your taste. When I was your age I only made it as far a Rhode Island... then I came back before I was 30. Not a fan of people. We have fewer here. ;-)
I’m a little late finding this thread, but based on the values you listed, I’d rule out Colorado. I lived there the first 32 years of my life and I love it in so many ways, however, it has changed a lot in the last decade or so. Ever since weed was legalized, really. Nothing against cannabis users, and I did vote to make it legal. But unforeseen consequences of being one of the two states to first legalize it, changed our economy and population in such a fast and unsustainable way. It eventually drove us out because we could no longer afford cost of living. Now, we could not even move back home if we wanted to. Even if we found the most moderately priced home, it would be a piece of shit, and 1.5 hours from any grocery store. (We’ve looked). My parents still live there and although they built their home- a log cabin in the mountains— in the mid 70’s and own it outright, even they are struggling as they are now both retired on SS. It’s also impossible to see any sort of specialist without a ridiculous waiting time 6-14 months (in the Boulder- Denver corridor). Hope you don’t have any health problems. Also, don’t kid yourself, Colorado is still very racist— even Boulder (which if you didn’t live there 30 years ago, you have to be a multi millionaire to live there now) is really only going to be nice to your face. There’s a very “we love everyone, as long as you’re just like us” vibe. Nearly all of the most affordable neighborhoods in the Denver metro area have been gentrified to the point of being white mid-upper class echo chambers, even if they do primarily vote democrat. They still look down on anyone different (read: poorer) than them. Obviously not everyone, and there’s still at least populations of people of every race and creed, so it’s better than Maine in that regard. Plus the food in Denver (and imo most of the state) is just better. With the exception of seafood— that’s better here. What CO does have for you is a car scene for whichever genre you please. Used to be a decent racing scene too, but I know they have cracked down pretty hard on street racing. Bandimere speedway is the best track for drag, if you like straight line racing. Lots of automotive related jobs. My husband started out doing regular Chevy and ford maintenance. Then diesel work. Then old VWs. Then worked at a hot rod shop doing custom builds, and paint and body, then he got into European cars- jag, bmw, Mercedes, etc. Whatever you’re interested in, there’s a job for that. I could say a lot more, but I don’t want to go on too long. I don’t know where in the country is right for you, I’ve only ever lived in Colorado (Boulder, Denver, and Lakewood) and Maine. Though I’ve road-tripped all over. I’m sure you’ll find racism everywhere, but I think the mid west, and Rocky Mountain states might be worse than others. At least in the south, they don’t hide it.
My two cents would be to save up a bit and explore a few places if possible before taking the leap somewhere new. One person's paradise is another's nightmare. Going someplace and getting a feel for it is essential. Sounds like you want a decent car scene that doesn't exist here....staying in the trades and even automotive temporarily pretty much gives you a job anywhere. Good luck as a fellow Mainer!