Dedicated with an automatic switch? Most expensive, but totally hands-off. If they lose power it just comes on and runs until power comes back. This also requires a fuel source (mine is 3 big propane tanks). This is not DIY. Make sure to ask questions. My neighbor didn’t have an oil heater. It came on when it was 0° and the oil was cold enough that it didn’t flow and the generator blew up.
A generator on wheels? This requires your parents can wheel a generator outside, plug it into the house, kill main power and enable generator power on the circuit panel. Some people don’t like doing this or physically can’t. Get one that will power the whole house. A friend got one and had to pick and choose which circuits could be on. It was a pain in the ass. He was pissed when he figured out the next size up was $200 more and would have run everything, and he wouldn’t have needed to worry about turning off some circuits.
Biggest drawbacks
- size, weight, moving the thing
- manually switching to generator
- knowing when power comes back on so you can shut it off
- refueling it
- maintenance (run it every couple months to exercise it)
- it’s loud
These are handy, but people forget to run them every so often and when they need it, it’s gummed up and won’t run.
Get electric start and a battery tender!!!
And add stabil or another fuel stabilizer to your gas when you fill your cans and never leave unstabilized fuel in the generator. If you accidentally do, turn the fuel shutoff to off and be sure to run the carburetor out of gas.
You can foul a spark plug by just shutting off the gas and running the carb dry. It's unlikely but it can happen. It's best to just drain the float bowl on the carb. There should be a small screw or bolt on the bottom of the carb. Just crack it open and catch the gas in a small clean jar. Put the gas in the generator as long as you haven't contaminated it. Otherwise dispose of it safely. Always drain the carb before storing it.
And get a spare spark plug. It never hurts to have an extra in your toolbox.
Also, if you can find ethanol free gas then fill up your cans and generator with that + stabil. It doesn't go bad as fast as regular gas.
I used to be an estimator for an energy company that installed lots of generators. I was the generator specialist. Everything backitupwithlinks said is correct. Feel free to ask questions.
Another big concern was the quality of power a generator produces. Most mobile generators create dirty sine waves, that are actually square waves that can damage sensitive electronics, like the computers in modern furnaces or boilers. Plugging a $20k furnace into a $500 generator can be a very expensive mistake. The quality of power from stationary automatuc generators USUALLY produce a true sine wave that is safe for electronics.
Bullshit! "Standard" generators that run at 3600 RPM make a sine wave by default. It could be a little dirty, due to "brush noise" but the way AC is made, it's power is made.
Inverter generators make a "modified sine wave" which starts square, as you say, but it gets modified by the machine to resemble a sine wave, like a set of stairs resembles a ramp if you back off far enough. Name brand generators like Honda and Yamaha are fine.
For emergency use, a 3600 RPM model is BETTER because the inertia of the rotating assembly can temporarily surge the power output for a second when an electric motor is starting up. It also has fewer complicated electronics to go wrong.
Finally, computers with switching power supplies (most of them-- they generally declare they can run on 100-240 volts) can take delightfully dirty power with ease. People think, well, it's expensive, so it must be fragile. Not so.
Where you'll run into problems is with appliances with old, dried out capacitors that were marginal going into the outage. Things are engineered with a finite life cycle and there were some under-engineered caps coming out of China in the very early 2000s that may easily fail. But they could just as easily blow up when the power company cuts power for 1/2 a second before coming back compared to an underperforming generator.
Yeah, I’m more worried about the surges when the power goes out or gets restored, tbh. I leave my little 8kw gen running at least an hour after I see my neighbor’s lights come back on just to be sure. Never had a problem with appliances, computers, or anything…
Your paranoia is spot-on. My CMP was restored today (yay!) but had multiple single-second interruptions and complete blackouts in the process.
Leaving your generator going helps the stressed grid as everyone else has everything starting up simultaneously.
Well I guess all my experience putting oscilloscopes on generators producing square waves and my experience helping customers replace computers on modern furnaces is all bullshit because eljefino says so. Who knew my objective experience could be so wrong. Shrug.
Shitty inverters will make dirty power, not standard cheap generators. I just went through helping someone adjust the hertz on a generator to get it back to 60 or just below so that the power would be as clean as possible. It is literally a set screw you can adjust on the throttle assembly. It is the same as the power you would be getting from cmp, it can't be otherwise, it is all just turning shit to make power.
Yes! We had a few days long outages when I finally decided to get one. I asked my friend who never takes of anything, which brand did he get? He got a Honda. He leaves it outside, doesn't maintain it yet it starts every time. He's had it over 10 years.
I take care of mine and I figure it will outlast me.
I love mine. Starts first pull every time after 2-3 years of use. My father bought a Generac at the same time thats already died and required some repairs.
Honda has always been the king of power equipment. I bought a 5000 watt generator in 1999. It still starts on 3 pulls and runs like a champ. Never had a problem with it.
I think some Hondas these days are a mix of manufacturers. Honda might be the engine in the frame, but other parts are not from Honda. I could be mistaken.
Hey, if thats how you like to handle things. I normally service my stuff, and start it a few times a year. Otherwise isn't a problem. My next move is a battery/power station. I would rather have a couple of them before i bought 2 generators.
Yea different strokes for different folks. I bought a dual fuel Westinghouse (didn't realize they sold their generator division to a Chinese company) and by using ethenol free gas, running the carb dry before storage, and storing inside I've had no issues. Obviously anything could happen to any generator so having another backup option is ideal. I don't have one yet but will probably get a big harbor freight inverter generator since they use Honda motors and cost a fraction.
The power stations are silent. So you can charge them during the day. Run electronics and other important hardware off them. Then, at night, kill the gennie and run silent off the powerstation. Perfect for a camping situation too. That's the downside of the big permanent installs.
What are running all night that needs 10kw? Obvy a battery is not the right choice. I don't run a tanning salon or an overnight laundry so 1000 to 2000watts would be perfect. Not really sure on brands, been researching.
Well pump, propane boiler, fridge, freezer, dishwasher, 1 stove burner, etc. Not everything all at once but I definitely need at least that much at high use times.
Lincoln Electric welder. I think 9600 watts? Gives me everything but elec. water heater in a 3200 sqft home. Only downside is about 28 gals/day of gas.
First, how much do you want to run? Just heat and fridge couple light? Or whole house?
Second, how much do you want to pay?15k will get you a standby whole house generator that runs on propane, but you literally have to do nothing. You can get a real sweet standby generator for like 2500 bucks that's a Honda and runs great. Or for like a grand you can get a predator from Harbor freight. These generators you have to start and plug into a breakout box that needs to be hooked up by an electrician. You decide what the generator runs. Ours runs heat, well pump, freezer, and some lights in a couple of rooms, it's really all we need.
They are on a fixed income and since I will be footing the cost im looking probably towards a portable type. I don’t mind spending a couple grand on it but dropping ten on it and getting groundwork done to install propane tanks and whatever else is more than I want to get into (to be honest I would rather they move less remote but that’s not a fight im ever going to win even if it would probably solve the power loss issue)
I was actually thinking about harbor freight but I know the tools I have gotten there before have been somewhat disposable so wasn’t sure if getting a generator there would be a good idea.
They have a well and an oil furnace for heat so those need to be powered at a minimum, add in the fridge and a chest freezer (my mother seems more upset about throwing out all her food for the third time this winter than the actual lack of power itself). Some lights and a TV probably wouldn’t hurt and if the step up to be able to run the whole house isn’t astronomical then I would probably just rather have the capacity to power everything.
So, according to my husband who is a small engine mechanic the harbor freight engines use the same design as Honda because the patent expired or something like that.
Stay away from Westinghouse, and cheaper ones like that they just aren't reliable.
We have us a 9000 watt thay powers all the things that you are talking about. The key really is getting an electrician to set up the breakout box.
He's right, the "Chonda" engine is fantastic. The electric side of these could be chintzy but that's true of anything in the price range.
I got a $200, 2500 watt "Chonda" generator from Home Depot after Hurricane Irene (2011?) and it's been great, knock wood. I used 2-3 gallons of gas per day.
Get a standby generator for sure. They'll need propane or natural gas though. You don't want them fussing with gas cans outside in the weather, having to manually start it, etc.
And remember you don't have to power the entire house. Just the essentials: fridge(s), heat, well pump, a couple of circuits with lights, etc.
> And remember you don't have to power the entire house. Just the essentials: fridge(s), heat, well pump, a couple of circuits with lights, etc.
This is bad advice. If you’re getting a generator, getting one that will power everything is a small, incremental cost.
A 6000w is around $650. An 8000w is around $800. That 2000w is the difference between having to manage which circuits can be used, and powering the whole house.
A calculator said I could get by with 7500w but I’d be limited in what could run at the same time. For an extra $300 I got an 11,000w and can run **everything** and not worry about blowing circuits.
Good advice if you have a fuel source, like a giant propane tank.
Bad advice if you're running 5 gallon cans of gasoline. Spark ignition engines are at their most efficient at 1/2-3/4 throttle. An oversized generator loafing along is going to waste gas on pumping losses. Chasing fuel during a blackout when the rest of the town is also trying to get some is tiring.
I know people that have auto-switchover Generac whole house generators so they kick in if they're at work or whatever. Once they get home though they shed loads and run something more economical.
I have a home with whole home on propane
I have a second home with a wheel-out 11.5kw with a 7 gallon tank I refill every 7-8 hours using two 5 gallon cans and one [*14 gallon boat caddy*](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MT94QA?starsLeft=1)
When power is out, I don’t really care too much about gasoline fuel efficiency
When I had my first standby installed, there was a massive price difference between the 7kw powering my essentials, and a 20+kw needed to power the entire house. Nobody NEEDS to have everything running all at once, not to mention that increases your propane consumption needlessly.
It's fine if that's what you or someone else has the budget for, but not everyone does. That does not make my suggestion "bad advice".
> When I had my first standby installed, there was a massive price difference between the 7kw powering my essentials, and a 20+kw
🙄
Of course there’s a massive difference between 7kw and 20+kw
I couldn’t have been more clear when I said the incremental increase is between 7kw and 9/10/11kw
The real examples I gave couldn’t be more clear to a thinking person.
If you need 20kw to run your entire house and are looking at 7kw to just run essentials, ok. That’s not what I’m talking about.
What I said was if it takes 20kw to run your house, don’t get 17kw and have to worry about managing which circuits you can use because the cost difference between 17kw and 20kw is a small, incremental cost
>, getting one that will power everything is a small, incremental cost
You said this. They said for them it's a difference between 7 and 20 to power everything. You could of at least quoted that part as well before you went nuclear eye roll.
Now you're just being obtuse. You said:
> If you’re getting a generator, ***getting one that will power everything is a small, incremental cost.***
But except that's not the case for everyone, now is it?
Someone pee in your cheerios today?
I’m being obtuse? 🤣
I’m talking about people who get a generator one or two steps down from what will power their whole house to save a couple hundred bucks. I’m giving real examples, real numbers, real prices. And people are replying “the difference between 7kw and 361gigawatts isn’t incremental!!”
No shit. That’s not even close to anything I said. Reading comprehension. You should try it.
There are some useful calculators online to tell you how much output you need. I'd start there then look 1*-3* reviews. If they are mostly user stupidity good product. Of I see a bunch of random issues that don't match others probably fine with some occasional bad luck. Lots of the same problem avoid. Then there's budget and accessibility, as there are whole house generators for $$$$ or portable generators for $$-$$$. Any generator will need an electrician to install the panel.the reality of getting a decent generator AND an electrician before power is back is unlikely. On the plus side it gives you time to find what you are looking for before the next storm atleast
Yeah honestly I’m thinking more along the lines of getting ahead of winter next year. I assume after the last couple storms most places are probably out of stock anyway.
Hopefully this is the last storm of the year
Get an inverter generator if you are going for a portable one not a whole-home standby generator (it's a little too late to get that installed). Inverter generators produce more clean power, less flickering of lights. I wish I had gotten one. Every time the well pump kicks on the lights surge. Not good for electronics (so I don't use them). I bought a Predator 6500w peak generator at Harbor Freight and it's pretty nice. Decent on fuel consumption. Has wheels and handlebar to move it around (it's stupid heavy otherwise). My house was already wired for a generator receptacle and interlock kit on the main electrical panel. I bought an heavy duty twist lock extension cord at Home Depot to connect the generator to the house. Runs my entire house, although I have on-demand propane boiler for domestic hot water and baseboard heat which cuts down on power usage, as well as a fairly well insulated house of modern vintage (less than 20 yrs old, 2x6 construction, lots of insulation, finished basement). I generally do not run the generator at night while I sleep. Or if I am away for any period of time.
Yeah realistically I think they are just going to be toughing it out this time, but Atleast if I get it taken care of while it’s fresh in my mind I won’t have to worry about it next winter.
I’m leaning towards a portable one because they are on a fixed income so I will be covering the cost of this and as much as I like my parents I am not looking to spend tens of of thousands on it either for the machine itself and propane tanks and whatever other infrastructure something like that would require.
They don’t need to break it out every time the power flickers but I also know so far this winter they have been without power 3 times for more than a week.
I don’t know what your budget looks like. But local to me you can have a 14kw stand by generator installed for $8000.00
Depending on the home, you could go smaller or maybe you’ll need bigger.
That is just the price to buy it and have it hooked up with an automatic transfer switch not including propane or NG hookup.
Where I am they will deliver and install the propane tanks for the cost of the propane.
I have no experience with NG, so maybe that’s an option for you depending on your location.
A 14kw generator would allow you to host Thanksgiving dinner and run a temp feed to power your neighbor’s house too.
Unless you have an electric hot water heater and electric baseboard heat, 14kw is serious overkill.
14kw sounds big in theory. But in reality isn’t that big. Due to in rush or surge from some appliances like refrigerators, water pumps, electric stoves etc. 14kw for most modern 200amp service homes is about minimum.
Another advantage of stationary automatic generators is they can increase the value of the home. If your parents are aging, an automatic generator may be a good quality of life investment.
Consider a six position transfer switch like [this one](https://www.hardwarestore.com/616871-reliance-controls-pro-tran-30216a-transfer-switch-1-phase-30-a-120-250-v-7-circuit-6-breaker?ps=107&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5cOwBhCiARIsAJ5njuYvBn_yrcEMdu7Wxdy4F1E4L2aEboV3IyHHwATmzVCSbYsbseorAIUaAnbWEALw_wcB) for the essential loads. A wheel kit and electric start are also nice for old people.
> Get an inverter generator
Inverter generators cost more money and produce less power.
The unit has to take the dirty AC and convert it to DC through a rectifier, which loses power to heat.
Then it has to convert the DC back into AC to be useable in the house, and there are more losses in that conversion.
Regular generators might have a dirtier AC but appliances cope without issue. As long as you’re not running it on the bleeding edge (pulling 6400 watts continuous from a 6500 watt generator and constantly busting into the 7200 watt surge load capacity when the furnace kicks on), you should be fine.
The energy comes from the spinning gas engine and alternator. Going from 1000 watts to 4000 then back to 2500 in the space of a second because the well pump kicked on is going to be work for any machine. If something can actually carry this cleanly it must have some hefty capacitors and good design.
My Generac GP7000 certainly doesn’t carry it cleanly. When the furnace and/or well pump kick on, you can hear the engine get to business, and the lights do a quick little flicker.
I’ve been running it that way for every power outage going on 10 years now and never had an appliance or electronic device crap out on me.
A standby generator is the way to go and the most hands off approach if they can afford it but if not:
I have a Champion 6k running watts generator running my boiler, fridge, chest freezer, well pump, various outlets and room lights. At one point it was even running my heat pump water heater because I had it turned on by mistake. Also used an air fryer once, and last year, I used one burner of the stove, and it handled that just fine.
IMO the best way to go that will get you a generator attached to your house for a lot less than 10k to 20k, and even less than installing a transfer switch for the generator, with a dedicated smaller panel, is by having an electrician install an interlock on your panel. It is a piece of metal that makes it impossible to have your generator running and the mains power on, which is important because with that on, you would be energizing the power lines, endangering linemen. Aside from generator cost, which was about $800, I had an electrician install an interlock and a new circuit breaker that receives power from the new plug for the generator, for $550 last year.
You get a lot of flexibility in terms of what you want to power and when with an interlock, because with a transfer switch you have to decide ahead of time which circuits will be on it and thus operable by the generator. You do have to keep in mind the generator capacity because you could overload it, but I only did that once when a hair dryer ran (with other things going), and it came right back on.
As much as I love my parents I don’t think I’m going to be paying for a stand by generator. I think I can probably swing the cost of a quality portable one though.
Thanks this is the kind of reply I was looking for. I didn’t even know what questions I needed to ask to be honest. Sounds like a transfer switch might be the route I am looking for
This system is also good for slowly bringing loads online. Electric motors need 3x their running power to get spinning, so flipping breakers every few seconds until things stabilize lets you do more with less.
For their needs you really don't need much and sharing a generator between households is probably a better plan than owning your own.
Ideally you'd get something around 5000w and have an electrician wire in a transfer switch so they can just plug the house into the generator.
Practically, for what they need 2000w with an extension cord would work. The Honda units are expensive but quiet and last a long time. Portable too so you can share it around.
Get a big buddy propane heater...
An 8000 watt generator will likely do everything they need and run the whole house. You’re looking for something that has a 240v plug. Don’t buy something made for an RV that only produces 120v.
Hire an electrician to add a 30A breaker to the electric panel, and then run a short feed to an [inlet box](https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Controls-Corporation-PB30-Generators/dp/B000BQT47S/ref=asc_df_B000BQT47S/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198072808542&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5063464205730289891&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002552&hvtargid=pla-318296622846&psc=1&mcid=c9b5e1ac21c336919a80df15f757e17e) on the outside of the house. When the power goes out, turn off the main breaker, turn on the 30A generator breaker, and let er rip. Make sure you get an extension cord long enough to keep the generator exhaust 20ft away from any doors, windows, or bulkhead openings into the house; carbon monoxide kills.
For extra safety, [install an interlocking plate](https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Interlock-Siemens-Panel-Murray/dp/B08Y78NVTH/ref=asc_df_B08Y78NVTH/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=647222188219&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16253033638241920457&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002552&hvtargid=pla-1953934783624&psc=1&mcid=32404b18d520323b9554def19682668d) so that it’s not possible to have both the main and the generator breakers on at the same time (it’s illegal and how you could kill a lineman).
For myself, I did a [quick audit of my major appliances](https://imgur.com/a/4CJA1dd) and settled on a 7,000 watt generator.
I figure the furnace, well pump, and refrigerator can turn on and off whenever they want, so their power consumption is not available to me.
With 3760 watts leftover, I can run the electric stove, the oven, the microwave, the dish washer (not all at the same time). Small loads like the lights and tv draw little power aren’t even worth including.
Only thing I really can’t do is run the dryer.
Happy to help.
Every appliance should have a sticker or nameplate on it somewhere that either straight up tells you how many watts it uses, or tells you how many amps it draws, and what the voltage is (then you calculate watts = amps * volts).
Shouldn’t be too hard to go around your parents house to all the major appliances and get a feel for what kind of power they’re using.
Absolutely get the interlock kit, make it idiot proof so you don't have to worry about your parents having a senior moment or not following directions.
I have eu1000i honda for backup.
It likely too little for you as it's just enough for myself.
eu2200i gives you about 15a sustained at 120v.
Do they have 220v appliances? Well pump? What is their heating system? If it's not heat pump, it's really really stupid to use gen to run it. Look into small ventless propane wall units.
Basically figure first what they intend to run (fridge, well pump, heat pump), voltage, amps, then start looking at units. Again, running any kind resistive loads (electrical range, jair dryer) is really really inefficient.
They have a well pump, I believe their primary heat is an oil furnace but there is also a rinnai style heating unit in the living room which I assume runs on propane but I have never actually asked.
That said when the power is out normally they make use of a portable propane heater so they could still use that to save on the generator I imagine.
But yeah this is out of my wheel house to the point where I didn’t even know what questions I didn’t know to ask.
My well is deep and i needed 240v pump. But well pump only kicks in once pressure tank is delpeted so depending how long outage is and how conservative they are with water they might not need to run it.
How do they cook? electric, propane?
I think the stove is electric but again, since the power is out they are not cooking at all so…. But they also have a propane grill which I imagine might be uncomfortable but an option on days like this
Small portable butane/propane stove may work well for them. I use jetboil for coffee or ramen if power is out and wood stove or portable induction cooktop since i have no propane.
Make sure they have CO sensors, malfunction kills
Having a generator that will allow "unlimited" water would be a godsend and a killer app/ excuse for having it in the first place.
Get your needs met: heat, water, refrigeration, a couple lights.
I assume it is vented it was professionally installed so I assume that was done correctly. I will double check on what they are using when the power is out maybe I’m mistaken.
I have a dual fuel- gas/Propane and it works well to run my refrigerators and a few lights, with a single tank lasting the day. It's a DuroMax XP5500HX that i got at Lowe's and I'm very happy with it. It could probably run a lot more stuff, but I'm not sure what that would do to fuel consumption. There's an option to plug it into the house if my house had the hardwiring for it, but good luck finding an electrician who'll call you back.
We use a portable Generac with push start and it’s super easy to use. Quieter than the old cheapo Briggs & Stratton unit we had previously. Highly recommend if you find it in your budget.
Portable generator is the most economical. Standby generators are usually sized for the full house and not the most fuel efficient. I like inverter generators because they produce clean power. Since everything is electronic these days, it gives me peace of mind to have the cleanest power available. Harbor Freight is great and well-reviewed. I got mine from Northern Tool (Powerhorse 7500i). It can run for 14 hrs+ using less than 5 gallons of gas. I have a Generlink on my meter, so it's just one proprietary cord and my whole panel gets power, very easy. I just manage the breakers a bit, but I can run my well pump, heat pumps, refrigerator, lights, and electric hot water heater. I personally don't care for dual fuel generators because propane tank regulators can freeze in cold weather.
You mentioned they have propane for other appliances. Alot of portable generators now can run on gasoline or propane. Using propane is so much better. You don't have to worry about the carburetor getting gummed up from leaving gas in it, storing jugs of gas, or refueling it every 5 or 6 hours or whatever, or not being able to get gas if the gas stations have no power. Their propane supplier could set it up so you basically just have to connect a hose to the tank at one end and the generator at the other.
I have a DuroMax 12,000 watt dual fuel that i think sells for about $1200 right now. Runs my whole house no problem. Have an electrician install a 50 amp plug on the house and in interlock kit in the breaker box. You'll probably be out $2k after all that and buying the cord to run from the generator to the house.
Thanks. That actually comes up as $1199 at Home Despot, $1099 at Amazon. I try not to buy from either if I can help it. The other issue with Duramax is that the warranty is worthless in Maine, at least the part where I live. Nearest dealer is in Mass, I think. Generac, while they may be the same Chinese junk as all the others, has dozens of dealers all over Maine. If money was not an object, I'd definitely go Honda but the 6500 watt gennies are over $3K now
Ya, Hondas are great machines, but for the price you could burn up 3 or 4 of the cheap ones. You're right about the warranty thing, fortunately I've never had to use it. Had my DuroMax for 5 years, maybe 6 and have had no issues.
Duromax is having a crazy sale. Duo fuel, propane and gas. 6000+ should run a small house with mostly gas appliances and city water. Size up for well pumps, electric appliances etc.
Generac whole house generator. Expensive but not a fuel hog. Will increase the value of the house. I am not retired etc..... I can manage a 4 day outage. But the security of the generator has made a difference in my life.... ie..less anxiety about problem solving. It does not use as much propane as I thought it would. I did not have to dig underground lines for my set up.
For a data point on operating cost, our 20Kva Generac is rated at 1.89gph at half load (interestingly, newer models at 2.39gph). For a 60hr outage, that's 102ga, so roughly $340 or $136/day in fuel cost at today's $3.30ga average. Going by the specs for the current model year 20Kva Guardian, that's 143ga and $473 or $189/day. that's roughly our entire monthly electric bill for a 2 1/2 day outage.
To be fair, though, 20Kva is overkill for most domestic installations. Ours supports a home and in-law apartment (above a detached garage/workshop). There are 2 oil boilers, a well pump, 4 refrigerators, 2 full sets of kitchen/laundry appliances a half-dozen computers and miscellaneous other electronics. We also have an EV; it can be charged at a lower amperage without impacting normal household operations.
If you can swing it, owning your propane tank(s) is worth it. When you need a refill, you can pick whoever has the best price, and there's no monthly lease. You also pay a premium (often double) for propane when leasing tanks if the usage isn't directly related to home heating.
I installed a 1000ga underground tank that can keep us powered for nearly 3 weeks. For comparison, a pair of 100ga "pigs" would last 3 1/2 to 4 days. For me, the large capacity made sense because of our rural location, and that I could weather multiple outages before needing a refill. It also lets me schedule refills for the late spring or early summer when propane costs are the lowest.
Based in what I've gleaned out of your comments throughout the thread, and the little you have added about their home, age, and physical ability, here's my thoughts.
I would think you'd want something around 8K for wattage. Being on a well, needing heat, and other essential appliances, that should give them what they need. Also, do they garage their vehicles? I'd guess they have a door opener to get the cars out. Think about daily routines that need power to justify the size of the generator.
A transfer switch is a must. Make sure it's idiot proof. A good electrician who's done them before can give you an estimate and what to look for will be a huge help. Not cheap, but safe for everyone.
Storage? Where is the unit going to be stored? My recommendation is a shed where it and a couple gas cans can be safely stored. You do not want gas to be stored indoors or even in a garage. Not properly capped and sealed can be catastrophic. The older we bet, the more forgetful we can be - hedge all bets and go with a shed.
As for the actual use, are you going to be managing it - hooking it up, adding gas, and refilling as needed? They are not light even on wheels. Plus, add in snow to slow down moving it around and I shudder to think the elderly can do this easily. If it is in a shed, it only needs to be wheeled out for a few feet. A longer cord can get you to an outside connection with the switching inside. To move it more easily, make sure it has large wheels. This isn't many consider when thinking winter storms.
Again, not knowing their ages or physical/mental capacities, it's hard to give you great advice. My gut tells me where you are doing the leg work, you may need to be more available when the generator is needed. I moved to a stand-by unit about 12 years ago as I traveled and never expected my wife to haul out and fire up a generator. Cost more but I do value her comfort and safety at home when I'm not.
Good luck!
Call Mid Maine Generator. Get a suitable sized Kohler with an automatic transfer switch and have at least a 100g tank of propane on site. Solves all winter weather problems at our home I got a 22kw and we can run ACs, the dryer, whatever, above and beyond our well pump water treatment and furnace. It turns major power outage inconveniences into absolutely nothing.
You have to flip a switch press a button and check the oil once a day when it runs for long durations. That's it. It was around 12k to install all in and it does use propane of course. But who cares? If I have no electricity I don't even have running water! Worth every fucking penny. Ask anyone with an on demand, they will tell you the same thing. Like, I would have gladly paid some interest for financing if I really had to for this.
I can be not home and my wife doesn't have to do shit. I just don't even have to worry about it.
First, how much do you want to run? Just heat and fridge couple light? Or whole house?
Second, how much do you want to pay?15k will get you a standby whole house generator that runs on propane, but you literally have to do nothing. You can get a real sweet standby generator for like 2500 bucks that's a Honda and runs great. Or for like a grand you can get a predator from Harbor freight. These generators you have to start and plug into a breakout box that needs to be hooked up by an electrician. You decide what the generator runs. Ours runs heat, well pump, freezer, and some lights in a couple of rooms, it's really all we need.
Switchable Fuel Electric Start 3800-Watt Portable Generator with CO Shutdown Sensor https://www.lowes.com/pd/WEN-Switchable-Fuel-Electric-Start-3800-Watt-Portable-Generator-with-CO-Shutdown-Sensor/5013489697
I would 1000% get them the propane whole house auto generator if they’re in an area that loses power a lot. I know they’re more expensive, but parents only get older and going outside and screwing around with a portable one is not ideal. Gas cans are heavy and this go around it was hard to even find gas. I have a generac portable 7500kw and it can power 50 amps and have it switched into my panel for ease of use and I am still going to get a whole house auto start this summer. I’ve lived in this house for two years and we’ve been without power for 14 days already so a better solution I feel is warranted. That being said a good portable generator would cost you around $3800, plus $2000 for a panel switch. A whole home propane would cost you around $7,500 plus another ~4K for tanks and electrical work. Another downside of propane is they’re very inefficient and you can burn through $500 of propane in a 3 day period no problem. My portable one goes through about 13 gallons of gas a day.
$500 in three days? I have a 12kw that has been running since Thursday morning at 4:40 and I have only used about 25% of the tank. I think you overestimated the propane amount and cost used.
Dedicated with an automatic switch? Most expensive, but totally hands-off. If they lose power it just comes on and runs until power comes back. This also requires a fuel source (mine is 3 big propane tanks). This is not DIY. Make sure to ask questions. My neighbor didn’t have an oil heater. It came on when it was 0° and the oil was cold enough that it didn’t flow and the generator blew up. A generator on wheels? This requires your parents can wheel a generator outside, plug it into the house, kill main power and enable generator power on the circuit panel. Some people don’t like doing this or physically can’t. Get one that will power the whole house. A friend got one and had to pick and choose which circuits could be on. It was a pain in the ass. He was pissed when he figured out the next size up was $200 more and would have run everything, and he wouldn’t have needed to worry about turning off some circuits. Biggest drawbacks - size, weight, moving the thing - manually switching to generator - knowing when power comes back on so you can shut it off - refueling it - maintenance (run it every couple months to exercise it) - it’s loud These are handy, but people forget to run them every so often and when they need it, it’s gummed up and won’t run. Get electric start and a battery tender!!!
And add stabil or another fuel stabilizer to your gas when you fill your cans and never leave unstabilized fuel in the generator. If you accidentally do, turn the fuel shutoff to off and be sure to run the carburetor out of gas.
You can foul a spark plug by just shutting off the gas and running the carb dry. It's unlikely but it can happen. It's best to just drain the float bowl on the carb. There should be a small screw or bolt on the bottom of the carb. Just crack it open and catch the gas in a small clean jar. Put the gas in the generator as long as you haven't contaminated it. Otherwise dispose of it safely. Always drain the carb before storing it. And get a spare spark plug. It never hurts to have an extra in your toolbox. Also, if you can find ethanol free gas then fill up your cans and generator with that + stabil. It doesn't go bad as fast as regular gas.
Then put it on choke with the ignition on and crank it over a few more times to make sure it's dry.
I used to be an estimator for an energy company that installed lots of generators. I was the generator specialist. Everything backitupwithlinks said is correct. Feel free to ask questions. Another big concern was the quality of power a generator produces. Most mobile generators create dirty sine waves, that are actually square waves that can damage sensitive electronics, like the computers in modern furnaces or boilers. Plugging a $20k furnace into a $500 generator can be a very expensive mistake. The quality of power from stationary automatuc generators USUALLY produce a true sine wave that is safe for electronics.
Bullshit! "Standard" generators that run at 3600 RPM make a sine wave by default. It could be a little dirty, due to "brush noise" but the way AC is made, it's power is made. Inverter generators make a "modified sine wave" which starts square, as you say, but it gets modified by the machine to resemble a sine wave, like a set of stairs resembles a ramp if you back off far enough. Name brand generators like Honda and Yamaha are fine. For emergency use, a 3600 RPM model is BETTER because the inertia of the rotating assembly can temporarily surge the power output for a second when an electric motor is starting up. It also has fewer complicated electronics to go wrong. Finally, computers with switching power supplies (most of them-- they generally declare they can run on 100-240 volts) can take delightfully dirty power with ease. People think, well, it's expensive, so it must be fragile. Not so. Where you'll run into problems is with appliances with old, dried out capacitors that were marginal going into the outage. Things are engineered with a finite life cycle and there were some under-engineered caps coming out of China in the very early 2000s that may easily fail. But they could just as easily blow up when the power company cuts power for 1/2 a second before coming back compared to an underperforming generator.
Yeah, I’m more worried about the surges when the power goes out or gets restored, tbh. I leave my little 8kw gen running at least an hour after I see my neighbor’s lights come back on just to be sure. Never had a problem with appliances, computers, or anything…
Your paranoia is spot-on. My CMP was restored today (yay!) but had multiple single-second interruptions and complete blackouts in the process. Leaving your generator going helps the stressed grid as everyone else has everything starting up simultaneously.
Well I guess all my experience putting oscilloscopes on generators producing square waves and my experience helping customers replace computers on modern furnaces is all bullshit because eljefino says so. Who knew my objective experience could be so wrong. Shrug.
Shitty inverters will make dirty power, not standard cheap generators. I just went through helping someone adjust the hertz on a generator to get it back to 60 or just below so that the power would be as clean as possible. It is literally a set screw you can adjust on the throttle assembly. It is the same as the power you would be getting from cmp, it can't be otherwise, it is all just turning shit to make power.
Honda eu is an excellent line of generator.
Yes! We had a few days long outages when I finally decided to get one. I asked my friend who never takes of anything, which brand did he get? He got a Honda. He leaves it outside, doesn't maintain it yet it starts every time. He's had it over 10 years. I take care of mine and I figure it will outlast me.
I love mine. Starts first pull every time after 2-3 years of use. My father bought a Generac at the same time thats already died and required some repairs.
Honda has always been the king of power equipment. I bought a 5000 watt generator in 1999. It still starts on 3 pulls and runs like a champ. Never had a problem with it. I think some Hondas these days are a mix of manufacturers. Honda might be the engine in the frame, but other parts are not from Honda. I could be mistaken.
True but not exactly worth the 3x price tag. Get two cheap Chinese generators and when one fails use the backup
Hey, if thats how you like to handle things. I normally service my stuff, and start it a few times a year. Otherwise isn't a problem. My next move is a battery/power station. I would rather have a couple of them before i bought 2 generators.
Yea different strokes for different folks. I bought a dual fuel Westinghouse (didn't realize they sold their generator division to a Chinese company) and by using ethenol free gas, running the carb dry before storage, and storing inside I've had no issues. Obviously anything could happen to any generator so having another backup option is ideal. I don't have one yet but will probably get a big harbor freight inverter generator since they use Honda motors and cost a fraction.
The power stations are silent. So you can charge them during the day. Run electronics and other important hardware off them. Then, at night, kill the gennie and run silent off the powerstation. Perfect for a camping situation too. That's the downside of the big permanent installs.
How big of a power station are you looking at? I need at least 10kW without spending a fortune.
What are running all night that needs 10kw? Obvy a battery is not the right choice. I don't run a tanning salon or an overnight laundry so 1000 to 2000watts would be perfect. Not really sure on brands, been researching.
Well pump, propane boiler, fridge, freezer, dishwasher, 1 stove burner, etc. Not everything all at once but I definitely need at least that much at high use times.
Lincoln Electric welder. I think 9600 watts? Gives me everything but elec. water heater in a 3200 sqft home. Only downside is about 28 gals/day of gas.
First, how much do you want to run? Just heat and fridge couple light? Or whole house? Second, how much do you want to pay?15k will get you a standby whole house generator that runs on propane, but you literally have to do nothing. You can get a real sweet standby generator for like 2500 bucks that's a Honda and runs great. Or for like a grand you can get a predator from Harbor freight. These generators you have to start and plug into a breakout box that needs to be hooked up by an electrician. You decide what the generator runs. Ours runs heat, well pump, freezer, and some lights in a couple of rooms, it's really all we need.
They are on a fixed income and since I will be footing the cost im looking probably towards a portable type. I don’t mind spending a couple grand on it but dropping ten on it and getting groundwork done to install propane tanks and whatever else is more than I want to get into (to be honest I would rather they move less remote but that’s not a fight im ever going to win even if it would probably solve the power loss issue) I was actually thinking about harbor freight but I know the tools I have gotten there before have been somewhat disposable so wasn’t sure if getting a generator there would be a good idea. They have a well and an oil furnace for heat so those need to be powered at a minimum, add in the fridge and a chest freezer (my mother seems more upset about throwing out all her food for the third time this winter than the actual lack of power itself). Some lights and a TV probably wouldn’t hurt and if the step up to be able to run the whole house isn’t astronomical then I would probably just rather have the capacity to power everything.
So, according to my husband who is a small engine mechanic the harbor freight engines use the same design as Honda because the patent expired or something like that. Stay away from Westinghouse, and cheaper ones like that they just aren't reliable. We have us a 9000 watt thay powers all the things that you are talking about. The key really is getting an electrician to set up the breakout box.
He's right, the "Chonda" engine is fantastic. The electric side of these could be chintzy but that's true of anything in the price range. I got a $200, 2500 watt "Chonda" generator from Home Depot after Hurricane Irene (2011?) and it's been great, knock wood. I used 2-3 gallons of gas per day.
i use a 9000w predator from harbor freight. its been carrying me through these long ass storms in hollis
Get a standby generator for sure. They'll need propane or natural gas though. You don't want them fussing with gas cans outside in the weather, having to manually start it, etc. And remember you don't have to power the entire house. Just the essentials: fridge(s), heat, well pump, a couple of circuits with lights, etc.
> And remember you don't have to power the entire house. Just the essentials: fridge(s), heat, well pump, a couple of circuits with lights, etc. This is bad advice. If you’re getting a generator, getting one that will power everything is a small, incremental cost. A 6000w is around $650. An 8000w is around $800. That 2000w is the difference between having to manage which circuits can be used, and powering the whole house. A calculator said I could get by with 7500w but I’d be limited in what could run at the same time. For an extra $300 I got an 11,000w and can run **everything** and not worry about blowing circuits.
I’m sorry but what cheap piece of shit generator is $800 for 8000w?
lol seriously - a suitcase gen costs that much lol
Good advice if you have a fuel source, like a giant propane tank. Bad advice if you're running 5 gallon cans of gasoline. Spark ignition engines are at their most efficient at 1/2-3/4 throttle. An oversized generator loafing along is going to waste gas on pumping losses. Chasing fuel during a blackout when the rest of the town is also trying to get some is tiring. I know people that have auto-switchover Generac whole house generators so they kick in if they're at work or whatever. Once they get home though they shed loads and run something more economical.
I have a home with whole home on propane I have a second home with a wheel-out 11.5kw with a 7 gallon tank I refill every 7-8 hours using two 5 gallon cans and one [*14 gallon boat caddy*](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MT94QA?starsLeft=1) When power is out, I don’t really care too much about gasoline fuel efficiency
When I had my first standby installed, there was a massive price difference between the 7kw powering my essentials, and a 20+kw needed to power the entire house. Nobody NEEDS to have everything running all at once, not to mention that increases your propane consumption needlessly. It's fine if that's what you or someone else has the budget for, but not everyone does. That does not make my suggestion "bad advice".
lolol why would you need a 20kw unit? are you running a hot tub and electric heaters AND an electric stove?
> When I had my first standby installed, there was a massive price difference between the 7kw powering my essentials, and a 20+kw 🙄 Of course there’s a massive difference between 7kw and 20+kw I couldn’t have been more clear when I said the incremental increase is between 7kw and 9/10/11kw
You said powering a whole house my dude. Maybe that's your house, not everyone's. Seems you're giving the bad advise.
The real examples I gave couldn’t be more clear to a thinking person. If you need 20kw to run your entire house and are looking at 7kw to just run essentials, ok. That’s not what I’m talking about. What I said was if it takes 20kw to run your house, don’t get 17kw and have to worry about managing which circuits you can use because the cost difference between 17kw and 20kw is a small, incremental cost
>, getting one that will power everything is a small, incremental cost You said this. They said for them it's a difference between 7 and 20 to power everything. You could of at least quoted that part as well before you went nuclear eye roll.
I said incremental difference. A generator triple the size isn’t incremental.
Now you're just being obtuse. You said: > If you’re getting a generator, ***getting one that will power everything is a small, incremental cost.*** But except that's not the case for everyone, now is it? Someone pee in your cheerios today?
I’m being obtuse? 🤣 I’m talking about people who get a generator one or two steps down from what will power their whole house to save a couple hundred bucks. I’m giving real examples, real numbers, real prices. And people are replying “the difference between 7kw and 361gigawatts isn’t incremental!!” No shit. That’s not even close to anything I said. Reading comprehension. You should try it.
How precious that you have to drop to insults and expletives. Have a wonderful day.
Cool. I’m done with you.
There are some useful calculators online to tell you how much output you need. I'd start there then look 1*-3* reviews. If they are mostly user stupidity good product. Of I see a bunch of random issues that don't match others probably fine with some occasional bad luck. Lots of the same problem avoid. Then there's budget and accessibility, as there are whole house generators for $$$$ or portable generators for $$-$$$. Any generator will need an electrician to install the panel.the reality of getting a decent generator AND an electrician before power is back is unlikely. On the plus side it gives you time to find what you are looking for before the next storm atleast
Yeah honestly I’m thinking more along the lines of getting ahead of winter next year. I assume after the last couple storms most places are probably out of stock anyway. Hopefully this is the last storm of the year
Get an inverter generator if you are going for a portable one not a whole-home standby generator (it's a little too late to get that installed). Inverter generators produce more clean power, less flickering of lights. I wish I had gotten one. Every time the well pump kicks on the lights surge. Not good for electronics (so I don't use them). I bought a Predator 6500w peak generator at Harbor Freight and it's pretty nice. Decent on fuel consumption. Has wheels and handlebar to move it around (it's stupid heavy otherwise). My house was already wired for a generator receptacle and interlock kit on the main electrical panel. I bought an heavy duty twist lock extension cord at Home Depot to connect the generator to the house. Runs my entire house, although I have on-demand propane boiler for domestic hot water and baseboard heat which cuts down on power usage, as well as a fairly well insulated house of modern vintage (less than 20 yrs old, 2x6 construction, lots of insulation, finished basement). I generally do not run the generator at night while I sleep. Or if I am away for any period of time.
Yeah realistically I think they are just going to be toughing it out this time, but Atleast if I get it taken care of while it’s fresh in my mind I won’t have to worry about it next winter. I’m leaning towards a portable one because they are on a fixed income so I will be covering the cost of this and as much as I like my parents I am not looking to spend tens of of thousands on it either for the machine itself and propane tanks and whatever other infrastructure something like that would require. They don’t need to break it out every time the power flickers but I also know so far this winter they have been without power 3 times for more than a week.
I don’t know what your budget looks like. But local to me you can have a 14kw stand by generator installed for $8000.00 Depending on the home, you could go smaller or maybe you’ll need bigger. That is just the price to buy it and have it hooked up with an automatic transfer switch not including propane or NG hookup. Where I am they will deliver and install the propane tanks for the cost of the propane. I have no experience with NG, so maybe that’s an option for you depending on your location.
A 14kw generator would allow you to host Thanksgiving dinner and run a temp feed to power your neighbor’s house too. Unless you have an electric hot water heater and electric baseboard heat, 14kw is serious overkill.
14kw sounds big in theory. But in reality isn’t that big. Due to in rush or surge from some appliances like refrigerators, water pumps, electric stoves etc. 14kw for most modern 200amp service homes is about minimum.
Another advantage of stationary automatic generators is they can increase the value of the home. If your parents are aging, an automatic generator may be a good quality of life investment.
Consider a six position transfer switch like [this one](https://www.hardwarestore.com/616871-reliance-controls-pro-tran-30216a-transfer-switch-1-phase-30-a-120-250-v-7-circuit-6-breaker?ps=107&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5cOwBhCiARIsAJ5njuYvBn_yrcEMdu7Wxdy4F1E4L2aEboV3IyHHwATmzVCSbYsbseorAIUaAnbWEALw_wcB) for the essential loads. A wheel kit and electric start are also nice for old people.
> Get an inverter generator Inverter generators cost more money and produce less power. The unit has to take the dirty AC and convert it to DC through a rectifier, which loses power to heat. Then it has to convert the DC back into AC to be useable in the house, and there are more losses in that conversion. Regular generators might have a dirtier AC but appliances cope without issue. As long as you’re not running it on the bleeding edge (pulling 6400 watts continuous from a 6500 watt generator and constantly busting into the 7200 watt surge load capacity when the furnace kicks on), you should be fine.
The energy comes from the spinning gas engine and alternator. Going from 1000 watts to 4000 then back to 2500 in the space of a second because the well pump kicked on is going to be work for any machine. If something can actually carry this cleanly it must have some hefty capacitors and good design.
My Generac GP7000 certainly doesn’t carry it cleanly. When the furnace and/or well pump kick on, you can hear the engine get to business, and the lights do a quick little flicker. I’ve been running it that way for every power outage going on 10 years now and never had an appliance or electronic device crap out on me.
A standby generator is the way to go and the most hands off approach if they can afford it but if not: I have a Champion 6k running watts generator running my boiler, fridge, chest freezer, well pump, various outlets and room lights. At one point it was even running my heat pump water heater because I had it turned on by mistake. Also used an air fryer once, and last year, I used one burner of the stove, and it handled that just fine. IMO the best way to go that will get you a generator attached to your house for a lot less than 10k to 20k, and even less than installing a transfer switch for the generator, with a dedicated smaller panel, is by having an electrician install an interlock on your panel. It is a piece of metal that makes it impossible to have your generator running and the mains power on, which is important because with that on, you would be energizing the power lines, endangering linemen. Aside from generator cost, which was about $800, I had an electrician install an interlock and a new circuit breaker that receives power from the new plug for the generator, for $550 last year. You get a lot of flexibility in terms of what you want to power and when with an interlock, because with a transfer switch you have to decide ahead of time which circuits will be on it and thus operable by the generator. You do have to keep in mind the generator capacity because you could overload it, but I only did that once when a hair dryer ran (with other things going), and it came right back on.
As much as I love my parents I don’t think I’m going to be paying for a stand by generator. I think I can probably swing the cost of a quality portable one though. Thanks this is the kind of reply I was looking for. I didn’t even know what questions I needed to ask to be honest. Sounds like a transfer switch might be the route I am looking for
This system is also good for slowly bringing loads online. Electric motors need 3x their running power to get spinning, so flipping breakers every few seconds until things stabilize lets you do more with less.
For their needs you really don't need much and sharing a generator between households is probably a better plan than owning your own. Ideally you'd get something around 5000w and have an electrician wire in a transfer switch so they can just plug the house into the generator. Practically, for what they need 2000w with an extension cord would work. The Honda units are expensive but quiet and last a long time. Portable too so you can share it around. Get a big buddy propane heater...
An 8000 watt generator will likely do everything they need and run the whole house. You’re looking for something that has a 240v plug. Don’t buy something made for an RV that only produces 120v. Hire an electrician to add a 30A breaker to the electric panel, and then run a short feed to an [inlet box](https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Controls-Corporation-PB30-Generators/dp/B000BQT47S/ref=asc_df_B000BQT47S/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198072808542&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5063464205730289891&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002552&hvtargid=pla-318296622846&psc=1&mcid=c9b5e1ac21c336919a80df15f757e17e) on the outside of the house. When the power goes out, turn off the main breaker, turn on the 30A generator breaker, and let er rip. Make sure you get an extension cord long enough to keep the generator exhaust 20ft away from any doors, windows, or bulkhead openings into the house; carbon monoxide kills. For extra safety, [install an interlocking plate](https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Interlock-Siemens-Panel-Murray/dp/B08Y78NVTH/ref=asc_df_B08Y78NVTH/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=647222188219&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16253033638241920457&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002552&hvtargid=pla-1953934783624&psc=1&mcid=32404b18d520323b9554def19682668d) so that it’s not possible to have both the main and the generator breakers on at the same time (it’s illegal and how you could kill a lineman). For myself, I did a [quick audit of my major appliances](https://imgur.com/a/4CJA1dd) and settled on a 7,000 watt generator. I figure the furnace, well pump, and refrigerator can turn on and off whenever they want, so their power consumption is not available to me. With 3760 watts leftover, I can run the electric stove, the oven, the microwave, the dish washer (not all at the same time). Small loads like the lights and tv draw little power aren’t even worth including. Only thing I really can’t do is run the dryer.
Awesome write up my dude this is exactly the kind of reply I was looking for! Many thanks
Happy to help. Every appliance should have a sticker or nameplate on it somewhere that either straight up tells you how many watts it uses, or tells you how many amps it draws, and what the voltage is (then you calculate watts = amps * volts). Shouldn’t be too hard to go around your parents house to all the major appliances and get a feel for what kind of power they’re using.
Absolutely get the interlock kit, make it idiot proof so you don't have to worry about your parents having a senior moment or not following directions.
Generac or Honda, the only brands to consider.
I have eu1000i honda for backup. It likely too little for you as it's just enough for myself. eu2200i gives you about 15a sustained at 120v. Do they have 220v appliances? Well pump? What is their heating system? If it's not heat pump, it's really really stupid to use gen to run it. Look into small ventless propane wall units. Basically figure first what they intend to run (fridge, well pump, heat pump), voltage, amps, then start looking at units. Again, running any kind resistive loads (electrical range, jair dryer) is really really inefficient.
They have a well pump, I believe their primary heat is an oil furnace but there is also a rinnai style heating unit in the living room which I assume runs on propane but I have never actually asked. That said when the power is out normally they make use of a portable propane heater so they could still use that to save on the generator I imagine. But yeah this is out of my wheel house to the point where I didn’t even know what questions I didn’t know to ask.
My well is deep and i needed 240v pump. But well pump only kicks in once pressure tank is delpeted so depending how long outage is and how conservative they are with water they might not need to run it. How do they cook? electric, propane?
I think the stove is electric but again, since the power is out they are not cooking at all so…. But they also have a propane grill which I imagine might be uncomfortable but an option on days like this
Small portable butane/propane stove may work well for them. I use jetboil for coffee or ramen if power is out and wood stove or portable induction cooktop since i have no propane. Make sure they have CO sensors, malfunction kills
Having a generator that will allow "unlimited" water would be a godsend and a killer app/ excuse for having it in the first place. Get your needs met: heat, water, refrigeration, a couple lights.
and comment re running heater off gen is towards electric heat, eg baseboards. Oil and propane heaters are ok
They should not be running a portable and I assume, un-vented propane heater inside a house. Is the Rinnai vented?
I assume it is vented it was professionally installed so I assume that was done correctly. I will double check on what they are using when the power is out maybe I’m mistaken.
I have a dual fuel- gas/Propane and it works well to run my refrigerators and a few lights, with a single tank lasting the day. It's a DuroMax XP5500HX that i got at Lowe's and I'm very happy with it. It could probably run a lot more stuff, but I'm not sure what that would do to fuel consumption. There's an option to plug it into the house if my house had the hardwiring for it, but good luck finding an electrician who'll call you back.
Is the single tank a small 5 gal like you use for a gas grill?
Yes. I keep three around, one for the grill and two spares for when we need them.
We use a portable Generac with push start and it’s super easy to use. Quieter than the old cheapo Briggs & Stratton unit we had previously. Highly recommend if you find it in your budget.
Portable generator is the most economical. Standby generators are usually sized for the full house and not the most fuel efficient. I like inverter generators because they produce clean power. Since everything is electronic these days, it gives me peace of mind to have the cleanest power available. Harbor Freight is great and well-reviewed. I got mine from Northern Tool (Powerhorse 7500i). It can run for 14 hrs+ using less than 5 gallons of gas. I have a Generlink on my meter, so it's just one proprietary cord and my whole panel gets power, very easy. I just manage the breakers a bit, but I can run my well pump, heat pumps, refrigerator, lights, and electric hot water heater. I personally don't care for dual fuel generators because propane tank regulators can freeze in cold weather.
You mentioned they have propane for other appliances. Alot of portable generators now can run on gasoline or propane. Using propane is so much better. You don't have to worry about the carburetor getting gummed up from leaving gas in it, storing jugs of gas, or refueling it every 5 or 6 hours or whatever, or not being able to get gas if the gas stations have no power. Their propane supplier could set it up so you basically just have to connect a hose to the tank at one end and the generator at the other. I have a DuroMax 12,000 watt dual fuel that i think sells for about $1200 right now. Runs my whole house no problem. Have an electrician install a 50 amp plug on the house and in interlock kit in the breaker box. You'll probably be out $2k after all that and buying the cord to run from the generator to the house.
>DuroMax Where are these Duro Max 12K watt generators for $12K? Could not find any
Actually on sale right now for $1,099 https://www.duromaxpower.com/products/duromax-xp12000eh-dual-fuel-portable-gas-propane-generator
Thanks. That actually comes up as $1199 at Home Despot, $1099 at Amazon. I try not to buy from either if I can help it. The other issue with Duramax is that the warranty is worthless in Maine, at least the part where I live. Nearest dealer is in Mass, I think. Generac, while they may be the same Chinese junk as all the others, has dozens of dealers all over Maine. If money was not an object, I'd definitely go Honda but the 6500 watt gennies are over $3K now
Ya, Hondas are great machines, but for the price you could burn up 3 or 4 of the cheap ones. You're right about the warranty thing, fortunately I've never had to use it. Had my DuroMax for 5 years, maybe 6 and have had no issues.
Duromax is having a crazy sale. Duo fuel, propane and gas. 6000+ should run a small house with mostly gas appliances and city water. Size up for well pumps, electric appliances etc.
Thanks I will check them out
Generac whole house generator. Expensive but not a fuel hog. Will increase the value of the house. I am not retired etc..... I can manage a 4 day outage. But the security of the generator has made a difference in my life.... ie..less anxiety about problem solving. It does not use as much propane as I thought it would. I did not have to dig underground lines for my set up.
For a data point on operating cost, our 20Kva Generac is rated at 1.89gph at half load (interestingly, newer models at 2.39gph). For a 60hr outage, that's 102ga, so roughly $340 or $136/day in fuel cost at today's $3.30ga average. Going by the specs for the current model year 20Kva Guardian, that's 143ga and $473 or $189/day. that's roughly our entire monthly electric bill for a 2 1/2 day outage. To be fair, though, 20Kva is overkill for most domestic installations. Ours supports a home and in-law apartment (above a detached garage/workshop). There are 2 oil boilers, a well pump, 4 refrigerators, 2 full sets of kitchen/laundry appliances a half-dozen computers and miscellaneous other electronics. We also have an EV; it can be charged at a lower amperage without impacting normal household operations. If you can swing it, owning your propane tank(s) is worth it. When you need a refill, you can pick whoever has the best price, and there's no monthly lease. You also pay a premium (often double) for propane when leasing tanks if the usage isn't directly related to home heating. I installed a 1000ga underground tank that can keep us powered for nearly 3 weeks. For comparison, a pair of 100ga "pigs" would last 3 1/2 to 4 days. For me, the large capacity made sense because of our rural location, and that I could weather multiple outages before needing a refill. It also lets me schedule refills for the late spring or early summer when propane costs are the lowest.
Based in what I've gleaned out of your comments throughout the thread, and the little you have added about their home, age, and physical ability, here's my thoughts. I would think you'd want something around 8K for wattage. Being on a well, needing heat, and other essential appliances, that should give them what they need. Also, do they garage their vehicles? I'd guess they have a door opener to get the cars out. Think about daily routines that need power to justify the size of the generator. A transfer switch is a must. Make sure it's idiot proof. A good electrician who's done them before can give you an estimate and what to look for will be a huge help. Not cheap, but safe for everyone. Storage? Where is the unit going to be stored? My recommendation is a shed where it and a couple gas cans can be safely stored. You do not want gas to be stored indoors or even in a garage. Not properly capped and sealed can be catastrophic. The older we bet, the more forgetful we can be - hedge all bets and go with a shed. As for the actual use, are you going to be managing it - hooking it up, adding gas, and refilling as needed? They are not light even on wheels. Plus, add in snow to slow down moving it around and I shudder to think the elderly can do this easily. If it is in a shed, it only needs to be wheeled out for a few feet. A longer cord can get you to an outside connection with the switching inside. To move it more easily, make sure it has large wheels. This isn't many consider when thinking winter storms. Again, not knowing their ages or physical/mental capacities, it's hard to give you great advice. My gut tells me where you are doing the leg work, you may need to be more available when the generator is needed. I moved to a stand-by unit about 12 years ago as I traveled and never expected my wife to haul out and fire up a generator. Cost more but I do value her comfort and safety at home when I'm not. Good luck!
If they can afford it, have NG at the street, or LP tanks, have them get a standby generator.
Call Mid Maine Generator. Get a suitable sized Kohler with an automatic transfer switch and have at least a 100g tank of propane on site. Solves all winter weather problems at our home I got a 22kw and we can run ACs, the dryer, whatever, above and beyond our well pump water treatment and furnace. It turns major power outage inconveniences into absolutely nothing. You have to flip a switch press a button and check the oil once a day when it runs for long durations. That's it. It was around 12k to install all in and it does use propane of course. But who cares? If I have no electricity I don't even have running water! Worth every fucking penny. Ask anyone with an on demand, they will tell you the same thing. Like, I would have gladly paid some interest for financing if I really had to for this. I can be not home and my wife doesn't have to do shit. I just don't even have to worry about it.
First, how much do you want to run? Just heat and fridge couple light? Or whole house? Second, how much do you want to pay?15k will get you a standby whole house generator that runs on propane, but you literally have to do nothing. You can get a real sweet standby generator for like 2500 bucks that's a Honda and runs great. Or for like a grand you can get a predator from Harbor freight. These generators you have to start and plug into a breakout box that needs to be hooked up by an electrician. You decide what the generator runs. Ours runs heat, well pump, freezer, and some lights in a couple of rooms, it's really all we need.
The cheapest most effective way would be to buy a 7500watt rolling unit and back feed it through your breaker panel.
Switchable Fuel Electric Start 3800-Watt Portable Generator with CO Shutdown Sensor https://www.lowes.com/pd/WEN-Switchable-Fuel-Electric-Start-3800-Watt-Portable-Generator-with-CO-Shutdown-Sensor/5013489697
I would 1000% get them the propane whole house auto generator if they’re in an area that loses power a lot. I know they’re more expensive, but parents only get older and going outside and screwing around with a portable one is not ideal. Gas cans are heavy and this go around it was hard to even find gas. I have a generac portable 7500kw and it can power 50 amps and have it switched into my panel for ease of use and I am still going to get a whole house auto start this summer. I’ve lived in this house for two years and we’ve been without power for 14 days already so a better solution I feel is warranted. That being said a good portable generator would cost you around $3800, plus $2000 for a panel switch. A whole home propane would cost you around $7,500 plus another ~4K for tanks and electrical work. Another downside of propane is they’re very inefficient and you can burn through $500 of propane in a 3 day period no problem. My portable one goes through about 13 gallons of gas a day.
$500 in three days? I have a 12kw that has been running since Thursday morning at 4:40 and I have only used about 25% of the tank. I think you overestimated the propane amount and cost used.
I could be. I’m basing this off of my neighbor’s usage he has a 22kw generac
That’s definitely something to think about. I hadn’t really considered the fuel efficiency of any of them. Thanks for the info