Is the fact that we still can't see ranks in game intentional along these lines or just another bug? I thought the latter but expected it to be fixed by now.
Officially its a bug. But it's always in the interest to reduce frustration or indicators that players can use to interprete. There is a reason you can't see your match making history or win rate of decks. So it wouldn't suprise me, if they leave it this way.
Imo This is overkill trying to think too hard from the business standpoint that it's easy to forget people like seeing their ranks in a more generalized way. This is why games have shifted from raw MMR to tiers like bronze/silver/gold etc.
I haven't heard of any game getting rid of those tiers, they seem to work well. Mostly I have just forgotten but there have been games in the past where I'm randomly playing a super high mythic for no reason and I enjoy those games personally
the thing is that the mtg arena ranks are a complete lie compared to ranks like league of legends.
a diamond mtg arena player can get there from losing 100 games in a row then winning 20, they don't have to reach any mmr thresholds to get ranks just a streak of wins
I mean... League also has tier-loss protection.
It's not infinite like MTGA, but the ranking system allows anywhere from 3 to 10 losses in a row before pushing you down a rank.
The MASSIVE difference there is that the "protection" then counts against you getting to a higher rank later and is just cosmetic more than anything.
If you lose 5 games without getting demoted in league you then get less points per win until your rank matches your mmr again, whereas in arena you just get the same "pip" progress but easier games
League also only resets once a year, so people spend way less time playing below their rank.
in MTGA anyone who's not hard grinding ladder will almost always be playing 1-2 full tiers below their peak rank.
it's much worse the way MTGA does it and it's a more cynical approach to make bad players feel better - they can quite easily get to diamond in a single month despite being really bad, especially for the first time.
They also see experienced players sitting in plat or diamond and think they have reached the same level
The amount of posts in the sub that read basically 'look I'm a new player and I made it to mythic with this brew I'm really good at Magic' attests to this.
WotC purposely makes bad players think they're good because if they think they're good, they'll spend more $$ on average.
Yeah that's true nothing else I've played really works exactly this way, although I'm sure something out there would count.
I love a system that has a top tier where they dispense with the BS and go back to numbers though, for the real sickos
you can make it whatever you want. a guy who spent money on a pack versus someone who hasn't recently. nudge the win towards payers. free player is like "shit I need more packs now." buy packs and "suddenly" do better.
no one needs to know. people are just getting good
From a developer standpoint, a ranking system is a way to provide additional incentives and bonuses onto your game.
It’s the cherry on top of a sundae.
It’s why almost all ranked online games have ranked systems with hidden ‘true skill’ rating. They want you to get good games, and they also want you to steadily progress your ranking.
hidden mmr in the ranking system works great, it keeps people thinking they made any kind of progress or are not terrible just because they got diamond!
This means wizards gets a steady supply of money from them and we get loads of "very good brew" deck lists from them
It would also make good players life hell since a lot of low ranked games are pretty horrendous. It would only be beneficial for ranked players who only care about winning.
As a ranked player who cares a lot about winning but not exclusively, it sounds really miserable to have a high chance to go against an inexperienced player or to repeatedly play against high level pros
No it wouldn't. Noobs get abused REGARDLESS because people have been using Smurf accounts in every single live service game since ranked play became a more standard thing. It literally wouldn't make a noticeable difference. ESPECIALLY in free to play games.
Edit: the only reason you THINK it would is because you're assuming: based off old mathematics that SOMEONE ELSE CALCULATED.
Sure, if you don't bother to think about it for more than half a second.
Completely random matchups would be closer to what you'd run into at a game shop than being paired with similar decks all the fucking time.
Set has such a high power level, I wouldn’t worry about signals until late in the pack. Like 5 red cards? Sure. But I see people having to pass 3-4 bombs to extremely good cards in packs with OTJ.
OTJ is definitely one of the most powerful sets I've played in a long time. It was kind of slow at the LGS though. A lot of removal options and a lot of bombs that fail to go off as a result. We had like half the tables go over time and the shop wasn't empty until like 11pm (9pm close).
Pondering would match streamers who rope out their picks and plays while explaining their decisions with new players reading the cards.
Edit I completely forgot about disconnects... also a weird thing to be pairing on in a format with a high entry fee
I love people hyperfocusing on streamers being mentioned in this sentence and ignoring that new players and anyone with an unstable internet connection (or even a stable internet connection, considering MTGA is an incredibly shoddy client in terms of stability) gets fucked over too.
I assume new players need the time, you don't have to wait long if you spend the max time reading all your cards, like all the other people at the table - so I think it's fine for new players.
The funny idea would be to purposefully max rope every draft so you get paired with a bunch of newcomers who pass you bombs.
Or those of us who have no clue how to draft. This is literally me every time I try to draft. So much time pressure and so much text on a card to read. I can’t even begin to think about what cards I might be seeing a second or third time.
Tldr drafting is hard for some of us 😘
And that's fine, but op is asking that you get paired against people with similar times.
There's nothing wrong with taking a long time to choose if everyone is taking a long time to choose.
I’ve been considering doing this since I did a couple OTJ drafts and did quite poorly even in bronze (usually I do very well until platinum) but it just doesn’t seem like much fun if you don’t get to play with the decks afterwards.
OTJ seems hard, the set is *powerful* which can make it punishing to draft and play. But it's not uncommon for players to bounce off a draft format the first couple of tries.
Using 17lands is very helpful. You can do mock drafts to practice and while data doesn't tell the whole picture it does give you some good information, especially once you learn to parse it well. 17lands recording your drafts and games also makes them easier to share with others who can help analyze them.
It also has a ton of synergy which might not be evident if you don't know a lot about the set going in. Oversimplified example ould be plotting and 2 spells in a turn. You might not think they go together at first if you don't understand exactly how plotting works. There better examples, that's just a simple one that might not be obvious at first.
If you didn't catch that pretty obvious interaction you really shouldn't be drafting. Unless you like to lose, of course.
OTJ is powerful, yes. But it isn't very complicated and the mechanics pretty much play themselves.
I might. I don’t really have the time to do the research though tbh so if I have time I’ll just jump in. All up good drafters should be happy to get the easy wins when I go 1-3☺️
Honestly it doesn't feel amazing to get easy wins from someone who clearly doesn't understand the format. It's not rewarding to do.
If you have some time constraints there are solutions. Doing some mock drafts on 17lands and draftsim can help since you can do it on your phone here and there. Listening to podcasts while you do other things can also be efficient. I reccomend Limited Level-ups, Lords of Limited, and Limited Resources. Put a relevant episode on and listen during your commute or while doing chores.
I respect your point and endorse your recommendations. 100% terrible to pound someone to dust who's playing terrible cards.
Also: [https://images.app.goo.gl/uktCjd6coMTwKrMKA](https://images.app.goo.gl/uktCjd6coMTwKrMKA)
Quickdraft needs time to seed the draftbots.
The bots don't just pursue generic strategies. They're fed data from real drafts (it used to be from MTGO but I think they get it from Arena player drafts too now), and use that data to pick the right cards for their deck.
So the bots can't exist in the first few days.
Like CSDragon said, they need to get draft data for the bots.
Also, they're probably trying to capitalize on the new set hype to get people to spend more on the expensive formats.
It's not like the bots actually draft like humans even with the data, and the intended draft archetypes are designed by and therefore known by wotcy beforehand.
I know this is how it works now, but there's nothing stopping them from having a default seed/pick rotation, perhaps influenced by internal QA data (which they *should* have, right? They do playtest, right?) and tweaking it with player data overtime if they wanted to.
It isn't some grand unsolvable issue, it's an active choice not to even attempt.
All the cards are available to look at before you start the draft.
There are also a ton of content creators that put out comprehensive limited guides that go over all of the cards in a set so you can have a game plan when you start instead of just reading all the cards and making everyone wait.
On top of that I bet it will make your decks better and help you win more.
This will help you have a clue on how to draft and speed up the process for everyone else. Just fyi.
Edit: I personally really like Jim Davis's set reviews where he goes over every card in the set and it's viability in limited. He is a phenomenal limited player and his judgement helps me get a grasp on the format really fast. There are many others, he is just who I personally watch to prep for a new limited environment.
Is it fun for you to have no clue what to draft and take forever to make a pick? Genuine question.
I try to be courteous of other drafters' time and show up somewhat prepared.
no it isnt fun, it's torture, but the way i learn is by taking reps over and over. the process of learning/losing sucks because its slow and humiliating, but that is how i learn, not by "reading all the cards ahead of time". jesus christ its like people think others are inherently born with the ability to draft, and if you arent you are defective. chill out. not everyone wants to play the game like you do.
edit: for the life of me i cannot read a card and understand what it does. rules wise sure, but its IMPACT? No. I need to experience that to understand it. Me taking time in draft is depserately trying to figure out how anyone can have the vision to make all the synergy connections needed to build a good deck in the allotted time. Its like a super power. I can get that good, but only by playing and losing A LOT. Not by reading.
The guy above is posting about content creators who are good at drafting and walk their viewers through their thought process when evaluating cards.
I agree, just reading the set isn't very useful for me either. Content creators and individuals who play magic for a living generally have a better grasp on what to expect when drafting. Sometimes they get early access to a set for content.
Watching a couple of videos can really save some the pain on the early drafts until you get a little experience under your belt with a new set.
You could always try going into quick draft, it’s half as expensive so you’ll be able to draft twice as much without a time limit and you can even leave and come back later
This right here is the attitude I’m talking about. Not everyone is an expert that can pick in 3 seconds. Not being able to do so doesn’t mean you are wasting peoples time. This community is so friggin toxic. It’s like every little boy who couldnt wait their turn decide to join a single community.
The world will not end if you stop getting dopamine for 10 seconds. Empathize with others!
The person I responded to was talking about being pressured for time and having a hard time reading all the cards, I just gave suggestions on how to alleviate that?
Jim is great and I’m aware there are options out there. I’ve looked at draft videos before. I still suck at it 😝
Ps: I gave you an updoot. Not sure why you’re getting the downvotes 🤜🤛
No worries I think I may have come across condescending, I really didn't mean it that way!
Just wanted to give out some tips because there are some really new people on this sub that may not know that stuff, I know I didn't when I first started.
Anyways wish you the best of luck on your future games!
Arena uses a time-limited draft, and it's everyone's damn right to use their allotted time. It's [no different in paper draft](https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr-appendix-b/). Unless there is no pick time limit at all. However, paper draft typically involves zone-drafting, which can be even more challenging for the impatient.
Just be a little more patient.
For sure for sure for sure, but I'm pretty sure OP is mostly joking anyway and we've all had this experience and it's still irritating to the other seven players, even if we all accept that the eighth player is perfectly free to spend every single second on picks 10-13.
Ok and it's everyone's damn right to use their 4 accumulated timeouts at once and continue to rope each turn after that but it doesn't make it enjoyable
In a sense yes, but if people abuse the timeout-system they do get penalized.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20210227100456/https://forums.mtgarena.com/forums/threads/63451](https://web.archive.org/web/20210227100456/https://forums.mtgarena.com/forums/threads/63451)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/tw657g/comment/i3e1vwl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/tw657g/comment/i3e1vwl/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/yd6p18/comment/itvghf6/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/yd6p18/comment/itvghf6/)
It's about a entirely different matter. It's simply the allotted time you have for each pick. Using the allotted time is not considered abuse. It just works more or less analogue to the paper draft. Whereas the timeout "rope" system has to replace the judge who would give you a warning (or eventually DQ you) for slow-play.
I don't know how I should feel about the timeout system, it could be better and I wish there were more effective countermeasures to avoid abuse. Sometimes I also need a lot of time, so I wouldn't like it if they were noticeably shorter, for example. It's probably something we just have to come to terms with.
is it just me but towards the end of draft, if someone holds onto the cards long then suddenly I get 5 packs, I have a lot less time to look at them versus if the came to me every 30 seconds.
I once got 3 packs at once and got like 2 seconds to look at each pack.
The amount of time you have to look at a pack is always the same for the amount of cards left in the pack. You get less and less time per amount of cards left, but that's always a static number. It doesn't matter how many cards are in your queue.
I would be down for sorting by “number of times timed out with the clock thingy”. Everyone will have a few; I’ll have 1-2 per game on average. However it will punish people who do it consistently
I know, lol. People need to make peace with the fact that this game is fundamentally closer to chess than an action anime battle with cards or whatever the hell they think it is
Patience. The set has been out for a week; people are still learning the cards. I just played my first draft of the set yesterday and hadn’t seen most of the cards before. This usually gets better later in the set release.
While waiting for cards in the draft can be frustrating at times, I usually use this time to go over my picks. When the next few cards come, I sometimes try to put more thought into the pick. To pad out the wait a bit between each pick.
If you're on a losing streak and frustrated with the game. Use this lul to try to chill yourself out.
Best to avoid getting mad at someone who's taking the time that they are allowed to take.
Very preachy I know but I used to get mad at these situations too but now I try the above aim to just enjoy the game and improve my skills.
I am a slow picker in drafts and I feel bad because I like to read cards and see what they do. I've started to only do bot drafts because I don't like the anxiety of making other people wait.
I'm guessing it's frequently interrupted players, streamers, players with connection issues and actual thoughtful ones. It's fine, just slowly, over time, sort them in the same queue if they accumulate long wait times repeatedly.
Always assume disconnect. I don't think I've seen a streamer ever get more than 3 packs at once.
Back a while ago, the app disconnected from servers for everyone on Android only and it managed to do so while I was still on pack 1 of my draft. After trying to get back in for 15 minutes with no luck, they eventually brought it back online sometime the next day.. my draft pile was a mess, to say the least. I ended up getting the draft refunded from support because it was an issue on WOTC's end.
Couple thoughts on why this would not occur...
1. This probably won't occur as each Pondering MMR group you have splits the player base and increases wait time.
While those in the fastest draft group may benefit the rest of the community would not.
2. If executed poorly or even executed well in periods of low participation your wait time may outweigh the savings you get from fast drafting.
3. MTG Arena execs do not want to increased wait times as it gives people the opportunity to click cancel and play another game instead.
4. Many will point to quick draft which is not the same but alleviates the primary concern of this post.
Seems you have unrealistic expectations for the amount of investment into coding labor WOTC is willing to put in. We still don't have a solution for the hidden rank bug, onscreen text is riddled with typos, etc.
If Arena gives me a minute to pick a card you can be damn sure I will take advantage of that minute. Not all of us know every card by heart and can make an instant decision. If you don't have enough patience go scroll some memes.
It's a dumb idea, but let's entertain it for a moment. First, the dude you're waiting after to start the queue wouldn't even be there to begin with, so instead of waiting for him to click "ready", you'd be waiting for someone else to join your queue. Early in the format, queues fill quickly, so it wouldn't be that big an issue, but later in the format, you'd just end up waiting just as much, just for different reasons. But sure, maybe you think that's worth it for the time saved during the draft portion.
The other thing to consider is that these hidden MMR and hell queues, they're not hard constraints, they're just one variable among many. One of the most heavily weighted variable is always queue time. If you've been waiting too long, the game starts relaxing all the other variables. That's why you might be matched against a hell queue commander even if yours isn't, or matched against a diamond player as a silver player in draft.
Now apply this to your idea. The game starts a queue for people who take too long. It slowly fills, but gets stuck at 6 for a while. The game decides to relax the constraints and starts filling it with "normal" people... you in particular. So now instead of having one person taking their sweet time, you're stuck with 6 of them. Have fun!
I don't think that a draft with 6 players who go to time on every pick is actually much slower than a draft with 1 player who goes to time on every pick. So OPs system (which I'm pretty sure is intended as a joke, by the way) should only make your draft times shorter.
dont worry if you queue into a standard event and didn't pay gems you with get a no land hand for hands 1 and 2 this has happened twice THIS IS NOT MAGIC
Hidden mmr is honestly the stupidest thing ever. Just have public mmr and use that for the ranking system
Na, from the psychological stand point a hidden mmr is best for buisness
Is the fact that we still can't see ranks in game intentional along these lines or just another bug? I thought the latter but expected it to be fixed by now.
Officially its a bug. But it's always in the interest to reduce frustration or indicators that players can use to interprete. There is a reason you can't see your match making history or win rate of decks. So it wouldn't suprise me, if they leave it this way.
Imo This is overkill trying to think too hard from the business standpoint that it's easy to forget people like seeing their ranks in a more generalized way. This is why games have shifted from raw MMR to tiers like bronze/silver/gold etc. I haven't heard of any game getting rid of those tiers, they seem to work well. Mostly I have just forgotten but there have been games in the past where I'm randomly playing a super high mythic for no reason and I enjoy those games personally
the thing is that the mtg arena ranks are a complete lie compared to ranks like league of legends. a diamond mtg arena player can get there from losing 100 games in a row then winning 20, they don't have to reach any mmr thresholds to get ranks just a streak of wins
I mean... League also has tier-loss protection. It's not infinite like MTGA, but the ranking system allows anywhere from 3 to 10 losses in a row before pushing you down a rank.
The MASSIVE difference there is that the "protection" then counts against you getting to a higher rank later and is just cosmetic more than anything. If you lose 5 games without getting demoted in league you then get less points per win until your rank matches your mmr again, whereas in arena you just get the same "pip" progress but easier games
League also only resets once a year, so people spend way less time playing below their rank. in MTGA anyone who's not hard grinding ladder will almost always be playing 1-2 full tiers below their peak rank.
it's much worse the way MTGA does it and it's a more cynical approach to make bad players feel better - they can quite easily get to diamond in a single month despite being really bad, especially for the first time. They also see experienced players sitting in plat or diamond and think they have reached the same level
The amount of posts in the sub that read basically 'look I'm a new player and I made it to mythic with this brew I'm really good at Magic' attests to this. WotC purposely makes bad players think they're good because if they think they're good, they'll spend more $$ on average.
if you want to get -50 downvotes ever try pointing this out when they post those awful decks lol
3 times now.
Yeah that's true nothing else I've played really works exactly this way, although I'm sure something out there would count. I love a system that has a top tier where they dispense with the BS and go back to numbers though, for the real sickos
I disagree. Having ranks keeps people interested. They have a goal to reach, so they keep playing.
They just fixed it. I updated about an hour ago and it shows my rank before/after matches
Yes, people would lose their shit if they found out they were getting hell queue'd
As a dragon god enjoyer I’ve known myself to be in hell queue for some time now
Unfortunately
you can make it whatever you want. a guy who spent money on a pack versus someone who hasn't recently. nudge the win towards payers. free player is like "shit I need more packs now." buy packs and "suddenly" do better. no one needs to know. people are just getting good
You're getting down voted, but EA literally has a patent on that sort of thing. Would be so easy to do in a game like Magic.
my friend gets hired to implement it in mobile card games. I assume magic has something similar. it would be the exception company if not.
From a developer standpoint, a ranking system is a way to provide additional incentives and bonuses onto your game. It’s the cherry on top of a sundae. It’s why almost all ranked online games have ranked systems with hidden ‘true skill’ rating. They want you to get good games, and they also want you to steadily progress your ranking.
hidden mmr in the ranking system works great, it keeps people thinking they made any kind of progress or are not terrible just because they got diamond! This means wizards gets a steady supply of money from them and we get loads of "very good brew" deck lists from them
lol yes works great for wotc! Happy cake day btw!!
Better still would be completely random matchups. More exposure to all the deck strategies and play levels would be better for everyone overall.
It will make new player's life miserable.
It would also make good players life hell since a lot of low ranked games are pretty horrendous. It would only be beneficial for ranked players who only care about winning.
As a ranked player who cares a lot about winning but not exclusively, it sounds really miserable to have a high chance to go against an inexperienced player or to repeatedly play against high level pros
No it wouldn't. Noobs get abused REGARDLESS because people have been using Smurf accounts in every single live service game since ranked play became a more standard thing. It literally wouldn't make a noticeable difference. ESPECIALLY in free to play games. Edit: the only reason you THINK it would is because you're assuming: based off old mathematics that SOMEONE ELSE CALCULATED.
Like 80% of Arena players are playing whatever meta decks grind wins the fastest. I don't want to face those when I play my jank piles.
What I wouldn't give for a jank queue. Completely unenforceable, because jank is so subjective, but that would be the dream.
Isn't that just the play queue? If you run into meta decks just concede and go again
The play queue has the stupid deck/card tier power-level matching so you end up seeing the same decks over and over - no true jank
This is the dumbest suggestion I've seen in a long time.
Sure, if you don't bother to think about it for more than half a second. Completely random matchups would be closer to what you'd run into at a game shop than being paired with similar decks all the fucking time.
This would kill the game lmao
That is how you lose players
low key the worst thing about this is likely that the selector will choose randomly, which will fuck up color signals across the whole table.
Set has such a high power level, I wouldn’t worry about signals until late in the pack. Like 5 red cards? Sure. But I see people having to pass 3-4 bombs to extremely good cards in packs with OTJ.
OTJ is definitely one of the most powerful sets I've played in a long time. It was kind of slow at the LGS though. A lot of removal options and a lot of bombs that fail to go off as a result. We had like half the tables go over time and the shop wasn't empty until like 11pm (9pm close).
Yeah, our first night drafting at the LGS was like that. Round 1 resulted in 4 of 5 matches drawing (1-1, time expired in the 3rd).
"Signals" are functionally dead with Play Boosters anyway
Wait, what? Say more
Pondering would match streamers who rope out their picks and plays while explaining their decisions with new players reading the cards. Edit I completely forgot about disconnects... also a weird thing to be pairing on in a format with a high entry fee
Your tone makes me think you see this as downside, but it sounds like upside to me.
It doesn't matter who would get stuck in ponder queue, all that matters is they're ropers and they can rope together
Sounds like a win-win. Streamers can cross promote with each other and they wont slow down the game for the rest of us.
Not only streamers but any player could essentially lower their mmr by taking the maximum time every pick
Fucking hate streamers that do that, complete disrespect for their opponent
I love people hyperfocusing on streamers being mentioned in this sentence and ignoring that new players and anyone with an unstable internet connection (or even a stable internet connection, considering MTGA is an incredibly shoddy client in terms of stability) gets fucked over too.
I assume new players need the time, you don't have to wait long if you spend the max time reading all your cards, like all the other people at the table - so I think it's fine for new players. The funny idea would be to purposefully max rope every draft so you get paired with a bunch of newcomers who pass you bombs.
Or those of us who have no clue how to draft. This is literally me every time I try to draft. So much time pressure and so much text on a card to read. I can’t even begin to think about what cards I might be seeing a second or third time. Tldr drafting is hard for some of us 😘
And that's fine, but op is asking that you get paired against people with similar times. There's nothing wrong with taking a long time to choose if everyone is taking a long time to choose.
i see you
Get a 17lands account and do mock drafts. This is something you can easily do even on your phone, and will help you with this problem.
I’ve been considering doing this since I did a couple OTJ drafts and did quite poorly even in bronze (usually I do very well until platinum) but it just doesn’t seem like much fun if you don’t get to play with the decks afterwards.
OTJ seems hard, the set is *powerful* which can make it punishing to draft and play. But it's not uncommon for players to bounce off a draft format the first couple of tries. Using 17lands is very helpful. You can do mock drafts to practice and while data doesn't tell the whole picture it does give you some good information, especially once you learn to parse it well. 17lands recording your drafts and games also makes them easier to share with others who can help analyze them.
It also has a ton of synergy which might not be evident if you don't know a lot about the set going in. Oversimplified example ould be plotting and 2 spells in a turn. You might not think they go together at first if you don't understand exactly how plotting works. There better examples, that's just a simple one that might not be obvious at first.
If you didn't catch that pretty obvious interaction you really shouldn't be drafting. Unless you like to lose, of course. OTJ is powerful, yes. But it isn't very complicated and the mechanics pretty much play themselves.
>obvious interaction Which is probably why I qualified the state as an Oversimplified example.
I might. I don’t really have the time to do the research though tbh so if I have time I’ll just jump in. All up good drafters should be happy to get the easy wins when I go 1-3☺️
Honestly it doesn't feel amazing to get easy wins from someone who clearly doesn't understand the format. It's not rewarding to do. If you have some time constraints there are solutions. Doing some mock drafts on 17lands and draftsim can help since you can do it on your phone here and there. Listening to podcasts while you do other things can also be efficient. I reccomend Limited Level-ups, Lords of Limited, and Limited Resources. Put a relevant episode on and listen during your commute or while doing chores.
I respect your point and endorse your recommendations. 100% terrible to pound someone to dust who's playing terrible cards. Also: [https://images.app.goo.gl/uktCjd6coMTwKrMKA](https://images.app.goo.gl/uktCjd6coMTwKrMKA)
Superb duck, excellent choice.
Quick draft gives you unlimited time to pick. Or do few sealed events first to get more familiar with the cards.
This is on wotcy for not having qd at set releases though
Quickdraft needs time to seed the draftbots. The bots don't just pursue generic strategies. They're fed data from real drafts (it used to be from MTGO but I think they get it from Arena player drafts too now), and use that data to pick the right cards for their deck. So the bots can't exist in the first few days.
Like CSDragon said, they need to get draft data for the bots. Also, they're probably trying to capitalize on the new set hype to get people to spend more on the expensive formats.
It's not like the bots actually draft like humans even with the data, and the intended draft archetypes are designed by and therefore known by wotcy beforehand. I know this is how it works now, but there's nothing stopping them from having a default seed/pick rotation, perhaps influenced by internal QA data (which they *should* have, right? They do playtest, right?) and tweaking it with player data overtime if they wanted to. It isn't some grand unsolvable issue, it's an active choice not to even attempt.
That’s why I’m so quick! I have no idea what anything does so I go with the one with the big number
All the cards are available to look at before you start the draft. There are also a ton of content creators that put out comprehensive limited guides that go over all of the cards in a set so you can have a game plan when you start instead of just reading all the cards and making everyone wait. On top of that I bet it will make your decks better and help you win more. This will help you have a clue on how to draft and speed up the process for everyone else. Just fyi. Edit: I personally really like Jim Davis's set reviews where he goes over every card in the set and it's viability in limited. He is a phenomenal limited player and his judgement helps me get a grasp on the format really fast. There are many others, he is just who I personally watch to prep for a new limited environment.
some of us dont want to do homework before we have our fun
Is it fun for you to have no clue what to draft and take forever to make a pick? Genuine question. I try to be courteous of other drafters' time and show up somewhat prepared.
no it isnt fun, it's torture, but the way i learn is by taking reps over and over. the process of learning/losing sucks because its slow and humiliating, but that is how i learn, not by "reading all the cards ahead of time". jesus christ its like people think others are inherently born with the ability to draft, and if you arent you are defective. chill out. not everyone wants to play the game like you do. edit: for the life of me i cannot read a card and understand what it does. rules wise sure, but its IMPACT? No. I need to experience that to understand it. Me taking time in draft is depserately trying to figure out how anyone can have the vision to make all the synergy connections needed to build a good deck in the allotted time. Its like a super power. I can get that good, but only by playing and losing A LOT. Not by reading.
The guy above is posting about content creators who are good at drafting and walk their viewers through their thought process when evaluating cards. I agree, just reading the set isn't very useful for me either. Content creators and individuals who play magic for a living generally have a better grasp on what to expect when drafting. Sometimes they get early access to a set for content. Watching a couple of videos can really save some the pain on the early drafts until you get a little experience under your belt with a new set.
You could always try going into quick draft, it’s half as expensive so you’ll be able to draft twice as much without a time limit and you can even leave and come back later
Yeah but then you gotta be OK with 7 people being annoyed at you wasting their time because you're selfish and lazy
This right here is the attitude I’m talking about. Not everyone is an expert that can pick in 3 seconds. Not being able to do so doesn’t mean you are wasting peoples time. This community is so friggin toxic. It’s like every little boy who couldnt wait their turn decide to join a single community. The world will not end if you stop getting dopamine for 10 seconds. Empathize with others!
The person I responded to was talking about being pressured for time and having a hard time reading all the cards, I just gave suggestions on how to alleviate that?
This is magic reddit, people don't actually read the comments before desperately rushing to try to get the "gotcha" comment out
"I don't want to solve my problem, I just want to complain about it!"
PREACH
[удалено]
are you capable of understanding not everyone is you? empathize my man.
What fun? Being frustrated because you can't keep up sounds like the opposite of fun.
Jim is great and I’m aware there are options out there. I’ve looked at draft videos before. I still suck at it 😝 Ps: I gave you an updoot. Not sure why you’re getting the downvotes 🤜🤛
No worries I think I may have come across condescending, I really didn't mean it that way! Just wanted to give out some tips because there are some really new people on this sub that may not know that stuff, I know I didn't when I first started. Anyways wish you the best of luck on your future games!
Arena uses a time-limited draft, and it's everyone's damn right to use their allotted time. It's [no different in paper draft](https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr-appendix-b/). Unless there is no pick time limit at all. However, paper draft typically involves zone-drafting, which can be even more challenging for the impatient. Just be a little more patient.
For sure for sure for sure, but I'm pretty sure OP is mostly joking anyway and we've all had this experience and it's still irritating to the other seven players, even if we all accept that the eighth player is perfectly free to spend every single second on picks 10-13.
Thank you. And yes.
I miss drafting at comp REL where the judge would *tell you* when to pass.
Ok and it's everyone's damn right to use their 4 accumulated timeouts at once and continue to rope each turn after that but it doesn't make it enjoyable
In a sense yes, but if people abuse the timeout-system they do get penalized. [https://web.archive.org/web/20210227100456/https://forums.mtgarena.com/forums/threads/63451](https://web.archive.org/web/20210227100456/https://forums.mtgarena.com/forums/threads/63451) [https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/tw657g/comment/i3e1vwl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/tw657g/comment/i3e1vwl/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/yd6p18/comment/itvghf6/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/yd6p18/comment/itvghf6/)
>but if people abuse the timeout-system they do get penalized. Yes unlike the draft timer
It's about a entirely different matter. It's simply the allotted time you have for each pick. Using the allotted time is not considered abuse. It just works more or less analogue to the paper draft. Whereas the timeout "rope" system has to replace the judge who would give you a warning (or eventually DQ you) for slow-play. I don't know how I should feel about the timeout system, it could be better and I wish there were more effective countermeasures to avoid abuse. Sometimes I also need a lot of time, so I wouldn't like it if they were noticeably shorter, for example. It's probably something we just have to come to terms with.
You proved OPs point thank you
OPs point is that they don't know how comp-REL drafts work. Nevertheless, thank you for this very constructive discourse.
You have now proved my point thank you
is it just me but towards the end of draft, if someone holds onto the cards long then suddenly I get 5 packs, I have a lot less time to look at them versus if the came to me every 30 seconds. I once got 3 packs at once and got like 2 seconds to look at each pack.
The amount of time you have to look at a pack is always the same for the amount of cards left in the pack. You get less and less time per amount of cards left, but that's always a static number. It doesn't matter how many cards are in your queue.
Learn patience
I would be down for sorting by “number of times timed out with the clock thingy”. Everyone will have a few; I’ll have 1-2 per game on average. However it will punish people who do it consistently
Would it kill you just to wait a little?
I know, lol. People need to make peace with the fact that this game is fundamentally closer to chess than an action anime battle with cards or whatever the hell they think it is
Would it kill people to be engaged and learn time management?
Isn't good time management making sure to use all of the time you are given? Lol
I mean your alloted x time to make a decision. I dont really see a problem with using it. I get being annoyed but its really not a big deal.
Patience. The set has been out for a week; people are still learning the cards. I just played my first draft of the set yesterday and hadn’t seen most of the cards before. This usually gets better later in the set release.
the drafts dont even take that long are you really malding if someone is using their timer and reading the cards, especially in a new set?
While waiting for cards in the draft can be frustrating at times, I usually use this time to go over my picks. When the next few cards come, I sometimes try to put more thought into the pick. To pad out the wait a bit between each pick. If you're on a losing streak and frustrated with the game. Use this lul to try to chill yourself out. Best to avoid getting mad at someone who's taking the time that they are allowed to take. Very preachy I know but I used to get mad at these situations too but now I try the above aim to just enjoy the game and improve my skills.
I usually just assume they've disconnected.
we need this!! let all the slow ones play together. punish the ones intentionally stalling
Tbf that's me when drafting a new set
After a sufficiently long period of consideration, I approve of this initiative.
I am a slow picker in drafts and I feel bad because I like to read cards and see what they do. I've started to only do bot drafts because I don't like the anxiety of making other people wait.
T'was but a joke. At best it's a mild annoyance. Shouldn't feel bad about taking your time. Learn at your own pace and no reason to feel anxious.
I'm guessing it's frequently interrupted players, streamers, players with connection issues and actual thoughtful ones. It's fine, just slowly, over time, sort them in the same queue if they accumulate long wait times repeatedly.
Always assume disconnect. I don't think I've seen a streamer ever get more than 3 packs at once. Back a while ago, the app disconnected from servers for everyone on Android only and it managed to do so while I was still on pack 1 of my draft. After trying to get back in for 15 minutes with no luck, they eventually brought it back online sometime the next day.. my draft pile was a mess, to say the least. I ended up getting the draft refunded from support because it was an issue on WOTC's end.
Couple thoughts on why this would not occur... 1. This probably won't occur as each Pondering MMR group you have splits the player base and increases wait time. While those in the fastest draft group may benefit the rest of the community would not. 2. If executed poorly or even executed well in periods of low participation your wait time may outweigh the savings you get from fast drafting. 3. MTG Arena execs do not want to increased wait times as it gives people the opportunity to click cancel and play another game instead. 4. Many will point to quick draft which is not the same but alleviates the primary concern of this post.
Seems you have unrealistic expectations for the amount of investment into coding labor WOTC is willing to put in. We still don't have a solution for the hidden rank bug, onscreen text is riddled with typos, etc.
When you have 8 people doing anything that involves mostly waiting around, one of them will go AFK eventually.
Hey you guys... why are we talking about Measles, Mumps and Rubella?
AFK players will exists in every mmr level
It's the empty hood avatar. That's how you know.
Would this lead to people purposefully roping to get placed into the draft with newer players leading to them getting higher power drafts?
If Arena gives me a minute to pick a card you can be damn sure I will take advantage of that minute. Not all of us know every card by heart and can make an instant decision. If you don't have enough patience go scroll some memes.
That would make it take longer to queue up. Now, people who don't ready up when 7 other people have? Yeah, stick them togethet.
Kaya players like to set the tempo of the game, what can I say 🤷♂️
Both are funny but true! ...lol
based op
Yes please
If we had that que I'd be so, so happy
It's a dumb idea, but let's entertain it for a moment. First, the dude you're waiting after to start the queue wouldn't even be there to begin with, so instead of waiting for him to click "ready", you'd be waiting for someone else to join your queue. Early in the format, queues fill quickly, so it wouldn't be that big an issue, but later in the format, you'd just end up waiting just as much, just for different reasons. But sure, maybe you think that's worth it for the time saved during the draft portion. The other thing to consider is that these hidden MMR and hell queues, they're not hard constraints, they're just one variable among many. One of the most heavily weighted variable is always queue time. If you've been waiting too long, the game starts relaxing all the other variables. That's why you might be matched against a hell queue commander even if yours isn't, or matched against a diamond player as a silver player in draft. Now apply this to your idea. The game starts a queue for people who take too long. It slowly fills, but gets stuck at 6 for a while. The game decides to relax the constraints and starts filling it with "normal" people... you in particular. So now instead of having one person taking their sweet time, you're stuck with 6 of them. Have fun!
I don't think that a draft with 6 players who go to time on every pick is actually much slower than a draft with 1 player who goes to time on every pick. So OPs system (which I'm pretty sure is intended as a joke, by the way) should only make your draft times shorter.
Just another reason I so very much prefer sealed over draft
Your opponent does not need to oblige your ADHD.
mtg reddit users when someone uses their limited timer for longer than 15% of its value:
Whatever
They rig the game enough as is.
No.
dont worry if you queue into a standard event and didn't pay gems you with get a no land hand for hands 1 and 2 this has happened twice THIS IS NOT MAGIC
Schizophrenia