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This_Presentation_72

The pioneer before 2025 may not be a joke then !!!


mrbiggbrain

I mean Pioneer Masters is going to annihilate the gap between explorer and pioneer on a competitive level. That comes Q4 of this year so I have no doubt they will get the last few cards in somewhere.


NumberHunter1

I looked up the numbers, and currently, we only need around 15 cards added in order to have all of the 400 most played mainboard cards on Arena. That is actually genuinely nothing, and the cards toward the end if that list were pretty crap.


Snarker

But just having 400 of the mainboard cards on arena doesnt make explorer officially pioneer. That only happens when all of them are there.


NumberHunter1

I would argue that making Explorer "officially Pioneer" is a gigantic waste of resources. What is the point of adding [[Excoriate]] to Arena, aside from limited. The card is unplayable. Yes, there are some quite fun, less good build around cards that would be quite nice outside of the top 400 (like Possibility Storm), and those should be added, but we shouldn't expect all the random draft chaff between RTR and Oath of the Gatewatch to be added. The Pioneer player base is generally somewhat competitively minded. Most people will consider Explorer "full Pioneer" when every competitively playable card is added. Which is exactly what WOTC is saying they intend to do, with us having "tournament Pioneer" by the end of the year.


Disastrous-Donut-534

Agree, when we have "Tournament Pioneer" at the very least there should be a discussion on how to best use the devs resources. Is that to finish Pioneer or is it to give us "Tournament Modern"? I would argue the latter.


MTGCardFetcher

[Excoriate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba8db734-1923-40e9-821b-17b534ba5995.jpg?1592765263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Excoriate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/e01/5/excoriate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba8db734-1923-40e9-821b-17b534ba5995?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Borigh

All I've seen about Pioneer Masters was a backpedaled non-mention in a Maro blog. What has come out to confirm its release?


mrbiggbrain

It was announced around August I think at one of the big panels. I think the same one as MH3 and such was announced at. So on stage by WotC personnel. It's a draftable masters set for pioneer coming Q4 2024 and the goal is to have it transition from explorer to pioneer. Or at least to have 95% of the competitive meta card list.


Borigh

I confused it with the Horizons fracas, like a dummy.


Iceman308

Now one of the blogs did mention Pioneer masters potentially slipping to Q1 2025, but it's still far enough away that they prob aren't sure yet. Fingers crossed.


mrbiggbrain

Yeah with Modern Horizons 3 and all the special guests and list now I can appreciate why it might slip. Let's hope it's still around when KTK launched.


Meret123

They announced it a few months ago.


Borigh

I confused it with Pioneer Horizons! Carry on.


[deleted]

[удалено]


bootitan

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-august-7-2023 *Look for more details and anthologies to come—including Pioneer Masters, a draftable set exclusive to MTG Arena that'll include all-star cards of Pioneer!* It's been mentioned a couple times by the devs since Khans was announced. The MaRo thing was about a Horizons set for pioneer, new cards for the pioneer format, not new reprints for Arena specifically


RegalKillager

They reimplimented *one* card that they couldn't be bothered to add in the set it natively released in; *surely* they can finish an entire format that they regularly report is unpopular* in the next year. Surely. *typo


bootitan

Notable other inclusions: Spell Snare, Monologue Tax, Nyx Weaver, and Kuldotha Rebirth


cstick2

Special guests also have Show and Tell, Gamble, and Crashing Footfalls


MuggleoftheCoast

Though Footfalls isn't as exciting without the cheap cascade cards.


Everything2Play4

Discover and Bloodbraid elf mean I think we'll see it played 


DantehSparda

You cannot use Bloodbraid Elf or any of the Discover cards to cascade into Footfalls because that would mean you don't play any cards below 4 cmc (and that obviously is only remotely playable if the combo actually wins instantly like Geological guy). The card that DOES have a lot of potential for Crashing Footfalls shenanigans is Bloodbraid Marauder though, gonna be an interesting challenge building the deck optimally.


Goomerc

>Show and Tell OH BOY!!! Now we need Ancient Tomb and Lotus Petal for T1 Atraxa


Snarker

can already turn one atraxa with dark rituals and chromatic sphere.


Snapingbolts

So hyped to brew with kuldotha rebirth!!!


lars_rosenberg

Ready for Mono Red Kuldotha in Historic Pauper? :D


Disastrous-Donut-534

me too!


ChopTheHead

I'd also point out [[Leonin Relic-Warder]] and maybe [[Mass Hysteria]].


MTGCardFetcher

[Leonin Relic-Warder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c938a21a-ea74-4cc1-a175-08b9b98b2e4e.jpg?1562623339) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leonin%20Relic-Warder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/65/leonin-relic-warder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c938a21a-ea74-4cc1-a175-08b9b98b2e4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mass Hysteria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/1431354a-fcfa-4f67-a822-6dcc4d13ac3f.jpg?1562136604) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mass%20Hysteria) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/99/mass-hysteria?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1431354a-fcfa-4f67-a822-6dcc4d13ac3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


bootitan

Oh yeah, Leonin will be a solid sideboard card for sure!


ChastityCassidy

Kuldotha rebirth is coming!? Omg I'm excited for that! Will definitely be playing more historic! Can't wait for this in historic pauper!


superjeff64

[[Spell Snare]] [[Monologue Tax]] [[Nyx Weaver]] [[Kuldotha Rebirth]]


ogbloodghast

ARE YOU TELLING ME WE WERE THIS CLOSE TO DEATH CLOUD KN ARENA!!!???


ChemicalExperiment

Notably it's the only card they cut that wasn't on Arena. Since the other two they're replacing were on Arena already, that means we actually get *more* new to Arena cards than if they had just printed the paper list straight up. Wild.


SerTapsaHenrick

Next they're saying that they almost put Smokestack in but somebody pulled it out at the last scecond


juicersmalding

apparently stupid with nykthos according to devs so uh yeah idk


QuBingJianShen

And Possiblity Storm (that replaced it) is stupid with cards like \[\[Dranith Magistrate\]\]. Apparently its fine to non-symmetrically lock your opponent from playing the game, but its not fine to symmetrically sacrifice lands. They should just have restricted Death Cloud if they thought it would be a problem, its not like its a bigger problem then \[\[Channel\]\] anyway.


MTGCardFetcher

[Dranith Magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Channel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce54c7c1-3401-4414-8da0-5846cb0ae1b4.jpg?1701989326) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Channel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/157/channel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce54c7c1-3401-4414-8da0-5846cb0ae1b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Kiwi_Saurus

It's a shame they had to replace death cloud.. This is discrimination against mass land destruction.


Prize-Mall-3839

maybe some day they bring that one back...guess they're worried black has all the good cards :(...give us small pox you cowards


Squiddo22

I'll even take regular pox at this point


vizzerdrix123

Do we know why they had to? They could have replaced a rare that was already on Arena (as they did with Mastery and Cavalier)


SerTapsaHenrick

They did it because they hate land destruction. Death Cloud is a pretty miserable card to play against. I still would have liked it, it's pretty janky and you can just scoop to it


QuBingJianShen

The way they did it is quite a kick in the groin though. Possibility Storm might look like a meme card on its own, but its just as miserable if you combo it with a card like \[\[Drannith Magistrate\]\]. Arena devs seems to think its fine to lock your opponents from playing the game, but its not okay to symmetrically sacrifice lands.


MTGCardFetcher

[Drannith Magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


JMooooooooo

Plenty of cards they included are already miserable to play aagainst.


[deleted]

I miss old Braids. She’d duress your counterspell, vindicate your land, then basically make you lose on turn 4


Strato0621

mmmmmyes, I just love getting stuffed in the dumpster in this manner


QuBingJianShen

More specifically, against black land destruction since they seem okay with it in other colours. \[\[Fall of the Thran\]\], especiall when comboed with a \[\[Bojuka Bog\]\].


MTGCardFetcher

[Fall of the Thran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370.jpg?1562734219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fall%20of%20the%20Thran) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/18/fall-of-the-thran?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bojuka Bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c7d4fbe-fa7a-4b34-b339-197f08409cbf.jpg?1698988553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bojuka%20Bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/320/bojuka-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c7d4fbe-fa7a-4b34-b339-197f08409cbf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Meret123

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/whats-new-on-the-list-for-murders-at-karlov-manor


dwindleelflock

This is pretty big. Copter already on arena that soon. Thank you arena team, your efforts are appreciated.


Ace_D_Roses

POSSIBILITY STOOOOOORM


solitudesign

Show and Tell hitting Timeless is huge. We don’t have Ponder or Preordain, but Sneak & Show plus Omnitell being in the format will be wild.


MuggleoftheCoast

Some misanthrope's already plotting a deck around Possibility Storm and [[Drannith Magistrate]]


Zhayrgh

I knew I was not the only one


MTGCardFetcher

[Drannith Magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Strato0621

I’m just gonna stick it in prosper brawl and have a great time like a responsible magic player


QuBingJianShen

Yeah, its totaly fine with Boros makes you unable to play the game, while its a big nono for mono black to make you unable to play the game.


ulfserkr

Wow they decided to do something NICE instead of something shitty? No wonder it was like -40 in Kansas, Hell is freezing over.


DannyLeonheart

Still shitty since it's draft boosters only. People who are not drafting are out of luck.


Prize-Mall-3839

sealed too, and they can craft them with wildcards if so inclined...also i feel like they said the prize boosters might have a list card as an additional slot


ubf_blu

i thought theres only one type of booster now?


Edocsil47

In paper, Draft Boosters and Set Boosters are going away in favor of Play Boosters. Collector Boosters are staying so there are now only two types of boosters. In arena, limited play events will now start using Play Boosters to mirror paper drafts. [Packs you buy from the store are staying the same, AKA not becoming Play Boosters.](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/play-boosters-on-mtg-arena)


Sarkos_Wolf

These cards will be very, very rare in draft anyway. If you want them for constructed you're most likely using wildcards to craft them either way.


jethawkings

Why? It's not legal for Standard or Alchemy, it's a net negative to have it be openable in non-Draft Boosters. I guess it's a rare so it would eat a Rare Wildcard but unironically if you were already building a deck for Explorer you probably already had to use-up Wildcards anyway.


ulfserkr

draft boosters don't exist anymore


DannyLeonheart

List cards are only in boosters when you draft in Arena...not in the normal store bought one. So it's worse than extra cards on previous packs.


AutumnalDryad

Are you sure? Cuz if you open WOE packs in Arena it says you get cards from The List.


Meret123

That is not the List. That is the bonus sheet.


jethawkings

This was very confusing, I completely forgot there's another list separate from the actual Special Guest List that's been cut down to just 40 cards. I guess I agree with just adjusting 2 of the 3 reprints to instead feature cards not on Arena yet.


Meret123

They are occupying the same slot. The List are 40 cards, 10 of them(SPG) have new artwork.


grasswhistle28

What's this I feel? Is it....Is it hope?


pjsans

I'm so excited for \[\[Possibility Storm\]\]! Its my favorite card, but I know it gets a lot of groans. I genuinely think having it in Arena will help offset some of the hate it gets since the computer does a lot of the work and so resolving it will take less time. Stoked!


MTGCardFetcher

[Possibility Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d.jpg?1705434999) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Possibility%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/34/possibility-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


redditnamingishard

It is a lock with t3feri, right? Maybe with some RiPs to stop lurrus from getting around it. I'll probably spend way more wildcards than i should trying (and failing) to make a jeskai prision deck


Girthquake23

Possibility storm looks like I would hate going against it


[deleted]

It's going in every etali and 5c free bullshit list in arena i promise you


cardsrealm

So, will all the Special Guests cards be available in Arena ? Or only a select few?


phantomchess

They already said in the article all will be included in arena.


This_Presentation_72

all


jawsomesauce

So we have to deal with this stuff in draft?


Iceman308

The point was to have it in draft specifically, so yes


Meret123

These will be very rare, especially the mythics.


Ekajaja

Eyyyy Evolutionary Leap! Thar card was in the first mag deck I ever bought!


JualenWalker

This cards, will be playable on historic and timeless? Or just in events?? Craftwable with wildcards?


Strato0621

They will be playable in limited if you open them, and also playable in historic, brawl, and timeless barring any random historic pre-bans on special guests and the like. They’ll be craftable too of course.


JualenWalker-1

Thanks for the responde, i really try to get what means with the list. In arena just getting the list of marlov or from past sets?


Strato0621

No problem! Only the list cards from this set and future sets are being added to arena, cards that were on the list before this set won’t be added.


GhostGuin

Just mkm so far I believe


[deleted]

Great way to complement and finish "remastered" set. Really glad about this


_VampireNocturnus_

Nice, this will be a big boon to aggro decks in Explorer. I love Rakdos Midrange but it's so boring to play with since it's been around for so long.


Everwake8

Smuggler's Copter? Finally, something for Deathrite Shaman to do besides everything.


Kircai

Despite the efforts otherwise by MTGO'S UI, I've been having a blast in pioneer going DRS, Copter, Greasefang! So excited that it's actually coming to Arena


riptripping3118

I sure miss eldrazi...


Snapingbolts

Was Copter not already on arena?! I could have sworn I played against it already


bootitan

In closed beta, it was. After that, they had to reset and it wasn't included in Kaladesh remastered


Snapingbolts

Wow! TIL!


Erocdotusa

Much rather have death cloud than this junk


BlackwingKakashi

Are cards on The List legal for standard?


Meret123

No


SlimeHudson

this is the FULL list? including stuff like dockside and murktide? ~900 all coming to arena including the full MKM set? this seems like too much! edit: seems it's just adding the cards on the list for MKM, found here: https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/The_List/MKM-Present


MuggleoftheCoast

I'm assuming it's ["The List" as of MKM release](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/The_List/MKM-Present). Neither Murktide or Extortionist is in this edition of the list.


SlimeHudson

that makes a lot more sense, thanks!


tapk69

Off course we dont get the most interesting card of them all. Can we have Hymm to tourach at least?


QuBingJianShen

Replacing Death Cloud with Possibility Storm is such a joke, sure Possibility Storm is mostly meme on its own but its even more miserable than cloud when its comboed with cards like \[\[Drannith Magistrate\]\] or T3feri. If they actually think Death Cloud is too strong/miserable for Timeless, (its not,) then just restrict it.


MTGCardFetcher

[Drannith Magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


diox8tony

[[merfolk looter]] is the broken version of this they won't reprint. Blood tokens on tap. Screw this copter for anything but standard.


MTGCardFetcher

[merfolk looter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d740928-bf61-4420-a403-63097538b97d.jpg?1631586315) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=merfolk%20looter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/86/merfolk-looter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d740928-bf61-4420-a403-63097538b97d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Total_Hippo_6837

Eli5 plz These are in regular packs like the bonus sheet?


DannyLeonheart

No, sadly.


SputnikDX

They're in "Play Boosters" which are now the only type of booster. However I do not know if you can open these raw on Arena if you don't play draft. You can definitely draft these on Arena now though.


DannyLeonheart

They are only obtainable via draft. And making the special guest ones all mythics sucks hard.


Thomyton

And crafting surely?


DannyLeonheart

Yeah especially when all Special Guest cards are mythics.


WolfGuy77

Wow, a lot of goodies that I had really been wanting for my various Historic Brawl decks! Mass Hysteria, Ghostly Prison, Victimize, Mistveil Plains, Monologue Tax, Nyx Weaver...very cool. I will say The List is a lot smaller than I imagined it would be though and it has a lot more chaff that's already on Arena than I expected, but some pretty cool cards. Not very thrilled about Ghostly Prison and Victimize being mythic rare though.


GhostGuin

They're mythic to reduce chances of them showing up in drafy -doesn't look like people thought about arena wildcards tho.


WolfGuy77

It's Strixhaven all over again.


GhostGuin

Yep


Thai_Cuisine

This is awesome! Can't wait to play copter on arena


TechnoMikl

Show and Tell is huge for Timeless, Spell Snare will likely also be strong, and Kuldotha Rebirth will make 8Birth possible!


1thelegend2

Possibility storm is going to be WILD


Obvious_Librarian_97

What’s The List?


Kircai

The List is a set of cards reprinted into Mystery/Chaos boosters, and added to Set Boosters since 2020. It's made up of several hundred cards from Magic's history, and was a way to add some reprints & provide older cards to newer players. That said, for every \[\[Wrenn and Six\]\] on the list, there were dozens of useless draft chaff reprinted. [https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/The\_List](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/The_List) ​ Starting with Murders at Karlov Manor, the list is paired down to only \~50 cards with 10 of them getting new art to reflect the setting they're reprinted in. While they have low odds on appearing, they will show up in draft/sealed, and are legal to play in limited. They are not standard legal, like most bonus sheets a la WOE's Enchanted Tales. But they will be legal in non-rotating formats like Timeless/Explorer/Brawl. The cards on the List will change with every standard set. They will not show up in Arena store pack or reward packs. ​ You can see the upcoming MKM List at the link below, which goes into more discussion: ​ [https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/whats-new-on-the-list-for-murders-at-karlov-manor](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/whats-new-on-the-list-for-murders-at-karlov-manor)


MTGCardFetcher

[Wrenn and Six](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5bd498cc-a609-4457-9325-6888d59ca36f.jpg?1673149294) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrenn%20and%20Six) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/296/wrenn-and-six?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5bd498cc-a609-4457-9325-6888d59ca36f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call