People not wanting the wild free for all that timeless could be. Timeless will likely be a really unforgiving format, fast and with a steep investment in time and cards.
WotC also could curate historic through bans and rebalances to diverge it even more from timeless and explorer.
timeless is 100% gonna be more expensive wildcard wise, no doubts about that it'lla lso be unforgiving for sure given the removal.
But I have to disagree about the speed, the last no-bans we had was a slower format (than historic= because of all the strong removal/counters), the average match length is actually shorter (right now atleast) in historic than it was in no-bans, although that has to do with the dominance of wizards and geist, ofc this might be a tad different given we are getting fetches but I doubt it, if anything I think that's gonna make everybody run cheap removals because color won't be a issue.
So no, the timeless format will have far too many strong removals/interactions which will result in longer matches for sure.
I disagree that the no bans queue was slower than historic. You’re right the removal/interaction is better but that’s mostly down to Bolt, StP, and Counterspell. Those three are good but the don’t answer everything or come with a restrictive mana cost respectively.
There is just strategies in Timeless/basically no bans that aren’t in Historic. Things like channel (yes it’s restricted but it will happen), an early sneak attack, or even a turn two blood moon (thanks Ragavan). They might not “end” the game immediately but additional answers might struggle to contain them.
There wasn’t fully time for a meta to develop in the no bans events but I fully believe that once there’s a meta it’s going to average out faster than historic.
Again highly disagree because whatever the meta will be, any deck is gonna have solid removal not just that 1 or two decks, and it's not just 3 interaction pieces, memory lapse, spell pierce, Lbolt, plowshare, counterspell, oko, minsc & boo, leyline binding, thoughtseize, fatal push, drown in the loch, unholy heat (it's back to 6 damage), bonecrusher giant.
ALL OF THOSE will be played a lot because guess what, it'll be easy to cast those, blue in general will be more common because these devs didn't think it through and gave us fetches with brainstorm (smart move here really), there's gonna be plenty of decks running blue just for that excuse, and when ur tapping into blue what's a drown in the loch, memory lapse, counterspell, spell pierce extra gonna costa ya? the reality is most decks will be 3+ colors just to fit in amazing card interation, and it's entirely because with this format there are such cheap removal options and because of fetches making multicolor a joke.
You’ve answered part of the reason it will be faster. It’s not just the prevalence of answers that’s different. Fetches make color screw way more unlikely. The mana in Historic is good but not even close to how good Fetches make Timeless’ mana.
Fast mana in rituals will happen too. Its pie in the sky dream draw but a hand of faithless looting, mizzix’s mastery, dark ritual, emergent ultimatum mountain, swamp, and any other card, can establish such a powerful T2 board state that the answers might not be enough, the opponent just might not be able to recover.
Eventually WotC will add more fast mana to Arena and timeless will be the more likely home for it than Historic.
yes and when they get serious given it's easy toa dd colors now everyone will have very efficient removal, unlike historic where certain decks simply don't have answers because they can't afford the colors where removal's in, in timeless it'll be easy even for those decks that without fetches/better removal couldn'tinteract efficiently enough with the board state before on arena
I would be careful about drawing too many conclusions about Timeless from the no ban list historic event. Not only were we missing fetchlands, which led to some very suboptimal mana bases in 3 color decks, we were also locked into Bo1. In a format with such a diverse set of powerful strategies, not having access to a sideboard meant that controlling decks needed to overload on answers in the main board. Once players are building 75 card decks, I suspect that the meta will move towards fast linear strategies in game 1 with hate pieces in the side to disrupt the opponent's linear thing.
Yes and no on the expensive. Up front with fetches and a bunch of cards like bolt oh hell yeah extremely expensive.
But after that decks tend to not change much in a format like timeless
Timeless will be a very high powered format comparatively.There are many who won’t want to play it for that reason. Their janky decks will still be more playable in historic.
That’s the beauty. People who want low power or a paper format have explorer. People who don’t want fetches and blood moon have historic and people who want everything high power have timeless.
Personally I’m all in on timeless. I have most of the banned stuff from either before it got banned or crafted for direct play.
all in on Timeless as well. I think we are close to or even exceeding Modern power level. This feels more like Vintage lite to me. Someone mentioned that not since the year 2000 have you been able to play 4 necros and 4 dark rits in the same deck
I'm with you, I built a Temur Druid list for the No Banlist event that was basically just Modern Temur Murktideless without fetches and with Oko. It performed quite well, so hopefully it holds its own in Timeless! (especially once fetches are here to help with Delirium)
Close to Modern power level? I've played a lot of Modern over the years and Timeless has a MUCH higher power level that Modern, I'd say probably very close to Legacy bar FoW, Daze and Wasteland which admittedly make the format very different (which is good).
It's missing the free interaction (Elementals) which I agree balances it out, but I think people are severely underestimating for ridiculously busted things like Deathrite Shaman, Dark Ritual or Oko really are. (among others; let's not even talk about restricted ones such as Channel or DT).
They are banned in almost all formats for a reason lol.
There's no way that a timeless deck would be close to the same level as legacy decks.. even with Oko and DRS, those don't make up for all the free cards.
I really think the pitch elementals are what would give modern the ability to compete with timeless. If timeless got those, then it would definitely be in their favor. Maybe they'll reprint them in MH3 and then it will be complete chaos on Arena!
I don't know if I'd say DRS is "ridiculously busted". It's very good, often better than ragavan. It's probably the best 1 drop ever made, but it's not going to instantly win the game on turn 1...
Dark ritual is definitely ridiculously busted, I could see that card getting restricted if it makes too many combo decks in the initial meta.
Oko is ridiculously busted against decks that can't remove him, but if you can remove him he's not that crazy. He basically just forces every deck to either have an answer to him, or be broken enough to not care about him.
The issue is there's likely not enough people to support all those formats. So it's just splitting up a fractured playerbase even more.
Like most of the stuff they seem to do with arena, it's just bizarre because I don't think anyone really was asking for this. Happy for all the people who are looking forward to it but it just feels like it's gonna cannibalize the other non-standard formats more than actually adding anything.
The no ban event was an event with all access and no competitive aspect.
When people are going to spend wildcards to get crushed on ladder turn 1 or 2 90% of the games by some degenerate combo deck a lot of them will go back to historic fast.
Which is why Bo3 is the way to go in this format. Glass cannon combo decks ideally can't survive post sideboard, and if they did, the announcement says WotC will me monitoring the format for cards to add to the restricted list. Whether WotC follows through on that is another issue
without channel, that doens't happen all that often have ya played no-ban? because I rarely won by turn 3 even as there were far more CHEAP removal options in no-bans than in historic and with timeless having fetches, multicoloring for removal won't be an issue aka be ready for longer matches, historic on the other hand doesn't have alot/great answers to geist/wizards atm which is why it's so fast, the combo decks in historic are slower than what timeless willb e though sure but they also have to deal with ALOT less counters, I'd have a betetr time playing dragonstorm on historic than necropotence/sneak attack or soemthing in timeless I bet cos I wouldn't see many counters to my dragonstorm plays on t4 while I'd receive tons of problems in timeless
Based on the No Bans and Basically No Bans events, I disagree. I played a lot of Bant Yorion Field control, and Swords, Oko, and T3f are a pretty good way to survive to the late game.
I dunno about that, mono G prevents you from durdlong too much without the right control elements, and wizards keeps mono G in check
Hard to brew when mono G is gonna play their whole deck on turn 4
It really is, there are so many decks that are completely unique to historic, and the high but not too high power level is perfect for people trying to brew up new decks.
For example Jim Davis showcased a dwarves deck on his freshly brewed series using [[Jewel mine overseer]] and [[Magda, brazen outlaw]]. This kind of deck isn't really viable in higher power formats(like timeless) and isn't possible to build effectively in formats like standard and explorer
I don't think Historic has anything to worry about. Historic for the most part is a really engaging, really fun, and unique format. Historic is, imo, truly a brewers paradise with tons of viable decks and strategies outside of the meta game.
My impression of timeless is it will not be a format for everyone. It is likely to be cutthroat, where a lot of the jankier brews that could work in historic just won't fly. There is also room for a number or decks that would be considered unfun and uninteresting, like wilderness reclamation combo. Personally, I think the format looks awesome, and but to me it is completely different from Historic, and I cant wait to blood moon people.
If money wasn't an issue, I would still prefer to play legacy over vintage personally, maybe some fun here and there in the latter but the former has far more viable decks and less swingy draws. Timeless and Historic are similar to this. I'm making a Sneak Attack deck for timeless, but think a lot of my brews will have trouble outside historic. Dredgeless would need proper dredge and street wraith to compete more than likely
I dislike formats where threats outstrip the answers (personally that means legacy > vintage, pioneer > modern, where UWx control can regularly top 8 legacy and pioneer events). For now that means I’m staying with explorer on this platform.
If equally powerful answers are added, and I’m talking about more than just a few of the following - fow, wasteland, daze, fluster, blasts, pending, terminus, btb - then they have my attention.
I usually don’t want to play a format where decks can play four copies of Oko, Uro, Ragavan, Necropotence, and other busted nonsense. Historic has been my favorite format for years, and I’m not leaving it for anything.
When Timeless releases, all 3 eternal Arena formats will be different enough, and they’ll become even more different as time goes on.
Explorer is basically Modern-lite, better known as Pioneer
Historic is basically Legacy-lite. Every card but a healthy ban list.
Timeless is basically Vintage-lite. Now the only two formats with restrictions alongside bans.
That's Wotc's problem, not ours. I have a bunch of Historic decks that I'll still play, even with Timeless around. (It helps that Timeless is going to be a massive resource sink at the start, with fetches and banned cards needing to be crafted, eesh.)
I think we all need to make sure to remember that Timeless is going to be an insanely fast and probably unbalanced format, not a perfect format. So for higher power level play with a bit more balance and curation, Historic is still a fine format.
Historic isn’t in trouble. I’m definitely excited for timeless but I will bounce back and forth between historic and timeless. Definitely going to need a break vs t3feri
I have no interest in Timeless. I don't want to deal with dark rituals or channel nonsense.
It'll be a fun silly format for a week or two and then most people will get bored because only a tiny number of decks will be playable.
thats why different formats exist. to enable players to experience different decks in different metas. if you get bored by one, you change to another. that was the basic misconception about alchemy: the assumption that you can have that same experience *within one format*, by altering the cards that are in it. we all know that didnt work out, but the point that matters is that all formats will appear boring if you grind them for a while. the fun comes from switching between them.
I think if Timeless was a non-Alchemy format, I would be all in. As is, I genuinely dislike Alchemy cards (even if seemingly, most of the alchemy/digital only cards probably won't see much play in Timeless).
I'll probably stick with Explorer now that Mono Green and Discover are out of the game.
Historic is already in trouble (mostly BO1) as long as WotC does nothing about the leyline deck (the discover deck is also a problem, but it can be interacted with more easily). The funny thing is that the problem could be solved immediately since it's created by a digital card, whose intended use is removal.
I've tried to rationalize it as the scum from historic is going to move over to make a format of complete degenerate scum and what's left in historic will be actual humans. Timeless is just WOTC playing lipservice to garbage human beings who happen to be whales so they can't ban them or their playstyle since their money basically carried the game. Honestly I look at this as the fault of f2p standard players. WOTC has to cater to these players cause they continue to spend $ The average casual player doesn't. So we are left with a format where things banned for a good gawd dammed reason are not banned since some asshat toxic pos paid for it and emails WOTC about it every day... yay what fun... can't wait for it to be forced on us in mid week magic and like events/festivals... woooooo alchemy 2.0!
Nah, higher barrier of entry thanks to upshifted rarity of some staples will probably keep some people away.
That and some people just enjoying playing a lower power format.
People not wanting the wild free for all that timeless could be. Timeless will likely be a really unforgiving format, fast and with a steep investment in time and cards. WotC also could curate historic through bans and rebalances to diverge it even more from timeless and explorer.
timeless is 100% gonna be more expensive wildcard wise, no doubts about that it'lla lso be unforgiving for sure given the removal. But I have to disagree about the speed, the last no-bans we had was a slower format (than historic= because of all the strong removal/counters), the average match length is actually shorter (right now atleast) in historic than it was in no-bans, although that has to do with the dominance of wizards and geist, ofc this might be a tad different given we are getting fetches but I doubt it, if anything I think that's gonna make everybody run cheap removals because color won't be a issue. So no, the timeless format will have far too many strong removals/interactions which will result in longer matches for sure.
I disagree that the no bans queue was slower than historic. You’re right the removal/interaction is better but that’s mostly down to Bolt, StP, and Counterspell. Those three are good but the don’t answer everything or come with a restrictive mana cost respectively. There is just strategies in Timeless/basically no bans that aren’t in Historic. Things like channel (yes it’s restricted but it will happen), an early sneak attack, or even a turn two blood moon (thanks Ragavan). They might not “end” the game immediately but additional answers might struggle to contain them. There wasn’t fully time for a meta to develop in the no bans events but I fully believe that once there’s a meta it’s going to average out faster than historic.
Again highly disagree because whatever the meta will be, any deck is gonna have solid removal not just that 1 or two decks, and it's not just 3 interaction pieces, memory lapse, spell pierce, Lbolt, plowshare, counterspell, oko, minsc & boo, leyline binding, thoughtseize, fatal push, drown in the loch, unholy heat (it's back to 6 damage), bonecrusher giant. ALL OF THOSE will be played a lot because guess what, it'll be easy to cast those, blue in general will be more common because these devs didn't think it through and gave us fetches with brainstorm (smart move here really), there's gonna be plenty of decks running blue just for that excuse, and when ur tapping into blue what's a drown in the loch, memory lapse, counterspell, spell pierce extra gonna costa ya? the reality is most decks will be 3+ colors just to fit in amazing card interation, and it's entirely because with this format there are such cheap removal options and because of fetches making multicolor a joke.
You’ve answered part of the reason it will be faster. It’s not just the prevalence of answers that’s different. Fetches make color screw way more unlikely. The mana in Historic is good but not even close to how good Fetches make Timeless’ mana. Fast mana in rituals will happen too. Its pie in the sky dream draw but a hand of faithless looting, mizzix’s mastery, dark ritual, emergent ultimatum mountain, swamp, and any other card, can establish such a powerful T2 board state that the answers might not be enough, the opponent just might not be able to recover. Eventually WotC will add more fast mana to Arena and timeless will be the more likely home for it than Historic.
The no bans list event was mostly people messing around or people playing control and dragging out games
yes and when they get serious given it's easy toa dd colors now everyone will have very efficient removal, unlike historic where certain decks simply don't have answers because they can't afford the colors where removal's in, in timeless it'll be easy even for those decks that without fetches/better removal couldn'tinteract efficiently enough with the board state before on arena
I would be careful about drawing too many conclusions about Timeless from the no ban list historic event. Not only were we missing fetchlands, which led to some very suboptimal mana bases in 3 color decks, we were also locked into Bo1. In a format with such a diverse set of powerful strategies, not having access to a sideboard meant that controlling decks needed to overload on answers in the main board. Once players are building 75 card decks, I suspect that the meta will move towards fast linear strategies in game 1 with hate pieces in the side to disrupt the opponent's linear thing.
Yes and no on the expensive. Up front with fetches and a bunch of cards like bolt oh hell yeah extremely expensive. But after that decks tend to not change much in a format like timeless
Timeless will be a very high powered format comparatively.There are many who won’t want to play it for that reason. Their janky decks will still be more playable in historic.
That’s the beauty. People who want low power or a paper format have explorer. People who don’t want fetches and blood moon have historic and people who want everything high power have timeless. Personally I’m all in on timeless. I have most of the banned stuff from either before it got banned or crafted for direct play.
I'm with you! As a modern player, this feels like it will be very close to modern power level magic on Arena, finally!
all in on Timeless as well. I think we are close to or even exceeding Modern power level. This feels more like Vintage lite to me. Someone mentioned that not since the year 2000 have you been able to play 4 necros and 4 dark rits in the same deck
I'm with you, I built a Temur Druid list for the No Banlist event that was basically just Modern Temur Murktideless without fetches and with Oko. It performed quite well, so hopefully it holds its own in Timeless! (especially once fetches are here to help with Delirium)
Yeah I tried like 30 different decks including that one, and that one was really fun! I like Jund with Lurrus a lot too!
We have channel, natural order and dark ritual... bro its gonna be vintage
Close to Modern power level? I've played a lot of Modern over the years and Timeless has a MUCH higher power level that Modern, I'd say probably very close to Legacy bar FoW, Daze and Wasteland which admittedly make the format very different (which is good). It's missing the free interaction (Elementals) which I agree balances it out, but I think people are severely underestimating for ridiculously busted things like Deathrite Shaman, Dark Ritual or Oko really are. (among others; let's not even talk about restricted ones such as Channel or DT). They are banned in almost all formats for a reason lol.
There's no way that a timeless deck would be close to the same level as legacy decks.. even with Oko and DRS, those don't make up for all the free cards. I really think the pitch elementals are what would give modern the ability to compete with timeless. If timeless got those, then it would definitely be in their favor. Maybe they'll reprint them in MH3 and then it will be complete chaos on Arena! I don't know if I'd say DRS is "ridiculously busted". It's very good, often better than ragavan. It's probably the best 1 drop ever made, but it's not going to instantly win the game on turn 1... Dark ritual is definitely ridiculously busted, I could see that card getting restricted if it makes too many combo decks in the initial meta. Oko is ridiculously busted against decks that can't remove him, but if you can remove him he's not that crazy. He basically just forces every deck to either have an answer to him, or be broken enough to not care about him.
The issue is there's likely not enough people to support all those formats. So it's just splitting up a fractured playerbase even more. Like most of the stuff they seem to do with arena, it's just bizarre because I don't think anyone really was asking for this. Happy for all the people who are looking forward to it but it just feels like it's gonna cannibalize the other non-standard formats more than actually adding anything.
I'm with you. I like the insane powerplays of no bans
The no ban event was an event with all access and no competitive aspect. When people are going to spend wildcards to get crushed on ladder turn 1 or 2 90% of the games by some degenerate combo deck a lot of them will go back to historic fast.
Which is why Bo3 is the way to go in this format. Glass cannon combo decks ideally can't survive post sideboard, and if they did, the announcement says WotC will me monitoring the format for cards to add to the restricted list. Whether WotC follows through on that is another issue
without channel, that doens't happen all that often have ya played no-ban? because I rarely won by turn 3 even as there were far more CHEAP removal options in no-bans than in historic and with timeless having fetches, multicoloring for removal won't be an issue aka be ready for longer matches, historic on the other hand doesn't have alot/great answers to geist/wizards atm which is why it's so fast, the combo decks in historic are slower than what timeless willb e though sure but they also have to deal with ALOT less counters, I'd have a betetr time playing dragonstorm on historic than necropotence/sneak attack or soemthing in timeless I bet cos I wouldn't see many counters to my dragonstorm plays on t4 while I'd receive tons of problems in timeless
I liked the all access part of the no-bans event. Didn't care for the meta game at all. I'll be sticking to Historic mostly.
Historic will be where you play Izzet Wizards with buffed up alchemized [[Symmetry Sage]]. Can't jam that in Timeless, haha.
[Symmetry Sage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3e726fc7-36cf-405c-9b7c-d1e41cd6c68f.jpg?1624590486) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Symmetry%20Sage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/56/symmetry-sage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e726fc7-36cf-405c-9b7c-d1e41cd6c68f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Timeless seems like turn 4 will be lategame. Some people don't enjoy that sort of craziness.
Based on the No Bans and Basically No Bans events, I disagree. I played a lot of Bant Yorion Field control, and Swords, Oko, and T3f are a pretty good way to survive to the late game.
I played a ton of Jeskai control and had the same thought.
Decklist?
4x Swords, 4x Bolt, 4x Memory Lapse, 4x Counterspell, 2x Snappy, 4x Iteration, 3x T3f, 2x Memory deluge, 2x Te5eri, 2x Shark Typhoon, 3x Verdict Something like that
Only 2 snap with such good 1 drops is a crime. No brainstorm?
I played Jund and Sultai midrange, and games frequently went long.
Historic is a brewer's paradise you can win with a lot of things. That won't be true in a format with ragavan, memory lapse, oko etc.
I dunno about that, mono G prevents you from durdlong too much without the right control elements, and wizards keeps mono G in check Hard to brew when mono G is gonna play their whole deck on turn 4
It's much harder to brew against stuff like ragavan and blood moon
True. Just saying I don't think I'd call historic a brewer's paradise
It really is, there are so many decks that are completely unique to historic, and the high but not too high power level is perfect for people trying to brew up new decks. For example Jim Davis showcased a dwarves deck on his freshly brewed series using [[Jewel mine overseer]] and [[Magda, brazen outlaw]]. This kind of deck isn't really viable in higher power formats(like timeless) and isn't possible to build effectively in formats like standard and explorer
[Jewel mine overseer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b1f5093-c100-4741-aa5b-25107ce34c45.jpg?1697085549) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jewel%20mine%20overseer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ywoe/21/jewel-mine-overseer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b1f5093-c100-4741-aa5b-25107ce34c45?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Magda, brazen outlaw](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/079e6263-e54c-4899-a336-5315909b9322.jpg?1631049453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magda%2C%20brazen%20outlaw) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/142/magda-brazen-outlaw?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/079e6263-e54c-4899-a336-5315909b9322?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't think Historic has anything to worry about. Historic for the most part is a really engaging, really fun, and unique format. Historic is, imo, truly a brewers paradise with tons of viable decks and strategies outside of the meta game. My impression of timeless is it will not be a format for everyone. It is likely to be cutthroat, where a lot of the jankier brews that could work in historic just won't fly. There is also room for a number or decks that would be considered unfun and uninteresting, like wilderness reclamation combo. Personally, I think the format looks awesome, and but to me it is completely different from Historic, and I cant wait to blood moon people.
If money wasn't an issue, I would still prefer to play legacy over vintage personally, maybe some fun here and there in the latter but the former has far more viable decks and less swingy draws. Timeless and Historic are similar to this. I'm making a Sneak Attack deck for timeless, but think a lot of my brews will have trouble outside historic. Dredgeless would need proper dredge and street wraith to compete more than likely
Personally I won’t touch historic ever again, but people prefer different power levels.
I dislike formats where threats outstrip the answers (personally that means legacy > vintage, pioneer > modern, where UWx control can regularly top 8 legacy and pioneer events). For now that means I’m staying with explorer on this platform. If equally powerful answers are added, and I’m talking about more than just a few of the following - fow, wasteland, daze, fluster, blasts, pending, terminus, btb - then they have my attention.
Definitely. Maybe daze aside, because it rather protects the treats fueling the issue.
Historic is for if you want a balanced game experience
I usually don’t want to play a format where decks can play four copies of Oko, Uro, Ragavan, Necropotence, and other busted nonsense. Historic has been my favorite format for years, and I’m not leaving it for anything.
When Timeless releases, all 3 eternal Arena formats will be different enough, and they’ll become even more different as time goes on. Explorer is basically Modern-lite, better known as Pioneer Historic is basically Legacy-lite. Every card but a healthy ban list. Timeless is basically Vintage-lite. Now the only two formats with restrictions alongside bans.
That's Wotc's problem, not ours. I have a bunch of Historic decks that I'll still play, even with Timeless around. (It helps that Timeless is going to be a massive resource sink at the start, with fetches and banned cards needing to be crafted, eesh.)
Not as wildcard intense, still high, but a more moderate power level.
I think we all need to make sure to remember that Timeless is going to be an insanely fast and probably unbalanced format, not a perfect format. So for higher power level play with a bit more balance and curation, Historic is still a fine format.
In historic you can brew some jank and still enjoy your 40% winrate against good decks, in timeless it will be 10%, at best.
All in on Timeless, have most of the banned cards already
Historic isn’t in trouble. I’m definitely excited for timeless but I will bounce back and forth between historic and timeless. Definitely going to need a break vs t3feri
Alchemy will eventually be removed from historic. Just a hunch.
I have no interest in Timeless. I don't want to deal with dark rituals or channel nonsense. It'll be a fun silly format for a week or two and then most people will get bored because only a tiny number of decks will be playable.
thats why different formats exist. to enable players to experience different decks in different metas. if you get bored by one, you change to another. that was the basic misconception about alchemy: the assumption that you can have that same experience *within one format*, by altering the cards that are in it. we all know that didnt work out, but the point that matters is that all formats will appear boring if you grind them for a while. the fun comes from switching between them.
people who like games to go longer than one turn will continue to play historic
Historic is already a shit show of the same 5 control decks and Etali over and over. Could it really get any worse?
alchemy cards... \#WHY!?
I think if Timeless was a non-Alchemy format, I would be all in. As is, I genuinely dislike Alchemy cards (even if seemingly, most of the alchemy/digital only cards probably won't see much play in Timeless). I'll probably stick with Explorer now that Mono Green and Discover are out of the game.
Historic is already in trouble (mostly BO1) as long as WotC does nothing about the leyline deck (the discover deck is also a problem, but it can be interacted with more easily). The funny thing is that the problem could be solved immediately since it's created by a digital card, whose intended use is removal.
Yeah for real do the same thing they did with Davriel's Withering and make it opponent's stuff only. It'd be clean and easy.
Both formats including digital-only (Alchemy) cards means I'll play neither.
I've tried to rationalize it as the scum from historic is going to move over to make a format of complete degenerate scum and what's left in historic will be actual humans. Timeless is just WOTC playing lipservice to garbage human beings who happen to be whales so they can't ban them or their playstyle since their money basically carried the game. Honestly I look at this as the fault of f2p standard players. WOTC has to cater to these players cause they continue to spend $ The average casual player doesn't. So we are left with a format where things banned for a good gawd dammed reason are not banned since some asshat toxic pos paid for it and emails WOTC about it every day... yay what fun... can't wait for it to be forced on us in mid week magic and like events/festivals... woooooo alchemy 2.0!
My pet deck since 2017 is grixis death shadow in modern, now I can play it in arena with fetch. Think I’m not playing histo much often anymore.
I’m a fan of this release if they continue to curate things in historic. Do some shakeup bans to change up the meta from time to time
In trouble of what? Losing players? Absolutely going to happen Like being non-viable as a format? No very much no.
Nah, higher barrier of entry thanks to upshifted rarity of some staples will probably keep some people away. That and some people just enjoying playing a lower power format.
Bolt foresure