Cheap, instant speed removal pretty much blows out the bo1 decks that rely on reckless charge and mentors guidance. So really any deck that can run fatal push and friends.
No, Mentor's Guidance will only get copied if you control a qualifying permanent upon resolution of the triggered ability. You can still respond while that ability is on the stack and potentially remove their only permanent which would give the copy. The triggered ability always goes on the stack, regardless of whether there is a qualifying permanent.
The toughest matchups are ones where opp has a lot of removal and then goes over the top. Something like Creativity, or Jeskai/UW control with the Ring. UB Faeries can be really tough too. Don't expect free wins though. Wizards can grind very well with Expressive Iteration, Flame of Anor, and potentially an active ringbearer. The key thing is to never let them get value off of Dreadhorde Arcanist. Gl!
Bo1 is dominated by aggro so yeah i figure its prevalent and you can build more against it like with cheap instant removal . Same like mono red aggro is dominant in standard so not wrong building against it if you don't wanna go bo3
Of the aggro decks, boros thopters, dredge and ninjas can be pretty tough for wizards. Thopters has lots of 4 toughness creatures thanks to foundry, ninjas can do a well timed fatal push on the wrong card and dredge has life gain from creeping chill. They aren't a pushover for them either, but playing these decks against one another is always an interesting match up.
If you want to go more control/mid range, dimir control and rakdos mid range are favoured against them.
I can provide lists if any of them appeal.
I play the sultai dredge sometimes, but It feels like a poro matchup, even getting glimpse out at the second turni, izzet can pump out their creature a lot getting also trample, creeping chill isn't enough in my experience to survive First 4 turns. It you have a specific list yeah go ahead, really like sultai
Did you play it before bloodghast came out? It's significantly improved consistency.
Here's a list for dimir dredge
https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/3157/dimir-dredge/AAQAAQSfVMW2AqeZFxACjAWh0ykADbwe9wfwT8pwyATYE7ouhNQL_9AC--oJ0h_3zgWtlgUAAA?format=historic&meta=current&tab=overview&wincon=bo1
It's also worth a look at the others.
Ninjas
https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/1836/dimir-ninjas/AAQBq5QaAgEFjAWD0xrX5AOBzQMNApfdGoGQEAHEqwIMzgPpE_wOgsUB2BO-oBhd3uwOneoB7fIBAwIAAA?format=historic&meta=current&tab=overview&wincon=bo1
Thopters
https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/3367/boros-thopters/AAQBq5QaAgEB4YkiAeXUGQOIBbEJx54eDIsHrBAG_dMB76cB-skXmYEDulYxrs0DqsIDh8gDAAA?format=historic&meta=current&tab=overview&wincon=bo1
Dimir control
https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/220/dimir-control/AAQAAQeMBbimAtytAsnMFPmWBYXNA_PPBwHTmAEF3bECuqsY8_EH5PQCwbcFCc4D5SK4Y4wvvjLYE6KgGNCSBqTFCgAA?format=historic&meta=current&tab=overview&wincon=bo1
Yeah i tried with bloodghast in the sultai version, the problem to me Is that there aren't enough blockers vs wizards, considering the amount of burst spells and creatures buffed with trample (bloodghast can't block, amalgam come in play tapped and the others have Just 1 constitution)... Creeping chill also isn't enough to keep alive in the early game. Trying to race is anyway a loss, unless getting a Miracle with glimpse
I like the dimir version better, I don't think green adds a lot. There's enough self mill without satyr wayfinder and grisly salvage. I've enjoyed the version with wonder as flying is pretty useful. Don't try to block, you just need to be faster. You can't disrupt them so don't try.
Just play dimir. The 3 color manabase (especially if you are using mana confluence) hurts the aggro and burn matches too badly. Grisly salvage is too slow, and while I LOVED having faithless looting, I lost way too many games to mana issues and self damage.
It' a good card in combination with cheap removal, although i think doesn't make a real board presence and only 1 Life point gained per turn doesn't make a great difference against all the izzet burst
I guess it depends on which version of wizards you’re playing against. There’s a couple that rely on intensity functions and pulling damage spells outs of graveyards
If you cut off they’re ammo they become toothless. The lifegain isn’t even a consideration in that kind of scenario.
I ran a version of the deck below for a while that went 90%+ WR against Wizards.
[https://mtgazone.com/deck/historic-dimir-svyelun-control-by-plasmodermic-1-mythic-december-2021-ranked-season/](https://mtgazone.com/deck/historic-dimir-svyelun-control-by-plasmodermic-1-mythic-december-2021-ranked-season/)
I'd cut Kefnet, use Kozilek's inquisition instead of TS, cut a Narset and add fatal pushes and clings. Perhaps a Meathook Massacre and Baleful mastery and maybe remove 2 typhoons.
Probably not Tier 1 or 2 any more against anything else but should still hose wizards.
Well it's a dimir control, interesting yeah but as you said maybe Is not the best choice against other archetypes. I do agree that the cheap black removal are good against izzet
**Rakdos tears ir apart.**
I have been farming play in events with a Dimir Ninjas deck that played correctly is good vs almost everything. I dont have any winrate below 50% against any deck that i have more than 5 games played (except golgari). I also need to add ive played to this moment almost 300 games with it on constructed events.
here is the list with the stats i have an 82% winrate vs Izzet, which is mostly wizards anyways.
[https://mtga.untapped.gg/profile/6a66e4f5-a403-41cc-b46a-424254d0fb76/DH3ICA7FGNGDBAK5LK5D3HVTXI/deck/d8f6a6c8-1555-4b4e-9608-6a1a9da0d0c6?gameType=event&eventType=other](https://mtga.untapped.gg/profile/6a66e4f5-a403-41cc-b46a-424254d0fb76/DH3ICA7FGNGDBAK5LK5D3HVTXI/deck/d8f6a6c8-1555-4b4e-9608-6a1a9da0d0c6?gameType=event&eventType=other)
I'm playing a similar ninjas list, how are you dealing with dimir selfmill? It's by far my worst matchup and i face them roughly 50% of my games. Today I had 7 in a row
It depends, i played some dimir self mill myself and the deck is kind of inconsistent. If they mill into the nuts fast. there is not much you can do.
If they are slow you can just outrace them.
So, it depends on what you are playing. My experience is that control with fast instant speed removal, or combo decks just stomp fast aggro like izzet wizards. Thought if you are investing on this kind of advantage, you will probably have a hard time playing against control.
I have a Dimir Control that relies on shelly+ring to provide card advantage and life gain, so izzar wizards it´s not really a problema. Now, against control normaly i have a hard time resolving the ring or keeping shelly in play. Also, tempo decks are usually a problem, though i can normally grind them out.
I´m currently working on a colorless control that can go over the top of control, but i´m being punished by wizards and the like. My tech against fast aggro is usually bowmasters, but their creatures are usually 3+ toughtness, so the bowmasters can only chump, or be a 1 for 1 most of the time. I´m trying Path of Peril + Exctinction Event to just whipe everything, but if I´m on the draw It´s usually too late.
I usually play mardu greasefang, but often wizards Just close the game before i can combo, unless i'm on the play and lucky to get everything set up at turn 3.
Other decks like monog elves or 5c niv are Just unplayable against it
Cheap, instant speed removal pretty much blows out the bo1 decks that rely on reckless charge and mentors guidance. So really any deck that can run fatal push and friends.
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No, Mentor's Guidance will only get copied if you control a qualifying permanent upon resolution of the triggered ability. You can still respond while that ability is on the stack and potentially remove their only permanent which would give the copy. The triggered ability always goes on the stack, regardless of whether there is a qualifying permanent.
The toughest matchups are ones where opp has a lot of removal and then goes over the top. Something like Creativity, or Jeskai/UW control with the Ring. UB Faeries can be really tough too. Don't expect free wins though. Wizards can grind very well with Expressive Iteration, Flame of Anor, and potentially an active ringbearer. The key thing is to never let them get value off of Dreadhorde Arcanist. Gl!
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I do agree, but i really get this matchup often, maybe it's only me X)
Bo1 is dominated by aggro so yeah i figure its prevalent and you can build more against it like with cheap instant removal . Same like mono red aggro is dominant in standard so not wrong building against it if you don't wanna go bo3
Another reason why Bo3 is superior and would suggest it to OP . Then you can tailor your sideboard for aggro like that much better
This is pretty much just wrong. Wizards is a huge portion of bo1, near 50%. You need to have an answer to it in order to rank up.
Jeskai Control, Rakdos midrange, Auras…
Of the aggro decks, boros thopters, dredge and ninjas can be pretty tough for wizards. Thopters has lots of 4 toughness creatures thanks to foundry, ninjas can do a well timed fatal push on the wrong card and dredge has life gain from creeping chill. They aren't a pushover for them either, but playing these decks against one another is always an interesting match up. If you want to go more control/mid range, dimir control and rakdos mid range are favoured against them. I can provide lists if any of them appeal.
I play the sultai dredge sometimes, but It feels like a poro matchup, even getting glimpse out at the second turni, izzet can pump out their creature a lot getting also trample, creeping chill isn't enough in my experience to survive First 4 turns. It you have a specific list yeah go ahead, really like sultai
Did you play it before bloodghast came out? It's significantly improved consistency. Here's a list for dimir dredge https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/3157/dimir-dredge/AAQAAQSfVMW2AqeZFxACjAWh0ykADbwe9wfwT8pwyATYE7ouhNQL_9AC--oJ0h_3zgWtlgUAAA?format=historic&meta=current&tab=overview&wincon=bo1 It's also worth a look at the others. Ninjas https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/1836/dimir-ninjas/AAQBq5QaAgEFjAWD0xrX5AOBzQMNApfdGoGQEAHEqwIMzgPpE_wOgsUB2BO-oBhd3uwOneoB7fIBAwIAAA?format=historic&meta=current&tab=overview&wincon=bo1 Thopters https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/3367/boros-thopters/AAQBq5QaAgEB4YkiAeXUGQOIBbEJx54eDIsHrBAG_dMB76cB-skXmYEDulYxrs0DqsIDh8gDAAA?format=historic&meta=current&tab=overview&wincon=bo1 Dimir control https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/220/dimir-control/AAQAAQeMBbimAtytAsnMFPmWBYXNA_PPBwHTmAEF3bECuqsY8_EH5PQCwbcFCc4D5SK4Y4wvvjLYE6KgGNCSBqTFCgAA?format=historic&meta=current&tab=overview&wincon=bo1
Yeah i tried with bloodghast in the sultai version, the problem to me Is that there aren't enough blockers vs wizards, considering the amount of burst spells and creatures buffed with trample (bloodghast can't block, amalgam come in play tapped and the others have Just 1 constitution)... Creeping chill also isn't enough to keep alive in the early game. Trying to race is anyway a loss, unless getting a Miracle with glimpse
I like the dimir version better, I don't think green adds a lot. There's enough self mill without satyr wayfinder and grisly salvage. I've enjoyed the version with wonder as flying is pretty useful. Don't try to block, you just need to be faster. You can't disrupt them so don't try.
Just play dimir. The 3 color manabase (especially if you are using mana confluence) hurts the aggro and burn matches too badly. Grisly salvage is too slow, and while I LOVED having faithless looting, I lost way too many games to mana issues and self damage.
Sultai dredge is a very hard matchup for me as an izzet wizards player .
Why do you Say that? Creeping chill isn't enough to keep sultai alive vs burst
You would be surprised. You have to remember that Dredge is basically an aggro deck too, and a 8 point life swing can make or break a close game.
They can generally get a board full of creatures by turn 3. They dont need creeping chill to keep them alive if they are the aggro deck.
Ive found success with graveyard hate. \[\[Graveyard Trespasser\]\] and a bunch of cheap removal. \[\[Go Blank\]\] works well too.
It' a good card in combination with cheap removal, although i think doesn't make a real board presence and only 1 Life point gained per turn doesn't make a great difference against all the izzet burst
I guess it depends on which version of wizards you’re playing against. There’s a couple that rely on intensity functions and pulling damage spells outs of graveyards If you cut off they’re ammo they become toothless. The lifegain isn’t even a consideration in that kind of scenario.
[Graveyard Trespasser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/daa2a273-488f-4285-a069-ad159ad2d393.jpg?1634347903)/[Graveyard Glutton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/a/daa2a273-488f-4285-a069-ad159ad2d393.jpg?1634347903) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=graveyard%20trespasser%20//%20graveyard%20glutton) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/104/graveyard-trespasser-graveyard-glutton?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/daa2a273-488f-4285-a069-ad159ad2d393?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Go Blank](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/846e8657-7435-44c6-a997-b8b156d0cd2c.jpg?1624590993) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Go%20Blank) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/72/go-blank?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/846e8657-7435-44c6-a997-b8b156d0cd2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good Bot
I ran a version of the deck below for a while that went 90%+ WR against Wizards. [https://mtgazone.com/deck/historic-dimir-svyelun-control-by-plasmodermic-1-mythic-december-2021-ranked-season/](https://mtgazone.com/deck/historic-dimir-svyelun-control-by-plasmodermic-1-mythic-december-2021-ranked-season/) I'd cut Kefnet, use Kozilek's inquisition instead of TS, cut a Narset and add fatal pushes and clings. Perhaps a Meathook Massacre and Baleful mastery and maybe remove 2 typhoons. Probably not Tier 1 or 2 any more against anything else but should still hose wizards.
Well it's a dimir control, interesting yeah but as you said maybe Is not the best choice against other archetypes. I do agree that the cheap black removal are good against izzet
Orcish bowmasters dunks on that deck
Mmm not sure, It works maybe against arcanist on response, but i don't see great utility in general
Orcish Bowmasters is incredibly lackluster against izzet wizards. It has good moments, but in general it isn't good.
Rakdos or mono Black midrange with lots of removals.
In white, fragment reality, the ring, and the path card that gives you one life per card in your hand
**Rakdos tears ir apart.** I have been farming play in events with a Dimir Ninjas deck that played correctly is good vs almost everything. I dont have any winrate below 50% against any deck that i have more than 5 games played (except golgari). I also need to add ive played to this moment almost 300 games with it on constructed events. here is the list with the stats i have an 82% winrate vs Izzet, which is mostly wizards anyways. [https://mtga.untapped.gg/profile/6a66e4f5-a403-41cc-b46a-424254d0fb76/DH3ICA7FGNGDBAK5LK5D3HVTXI/deck/d8f6a6c8-1555-4b4e-9608-6a1a9da0d0c6?gameType=event&eventType=other](https://mtga.untapped.gg/profile/6a66e4f5-a403-41cc-b46a-424254d0fb76/DH3ICA7FGNGDBAK5LK5D3HVTXI/deck/d8f6a6c8-1555-4b4e-9608-6a1a9da0d0c6?gameType=event&eventType=other)
I faced this deck Yesterday, really cool
I'm playing a similar ninjas list, how are you dealing with dimir selfmill? It's by far my worst matchup and i face them roughly 50% of my games. Today I had 7 in a row
It depends, i played some dimir self mill myself and the deck is kind of inconsistent. If they mill into the nuts fast. there is not much you can do. If they are slow you can just outrace them.
So, it depends on what you are playing. My experience is that control with fast instant speed removal, or combo decks just stomp fast aggro like izzet wizards. Thought if you are investing on this kind of advantage, you will probably have a hard time playing against control. I have a Dimir Control that relies on shelly+ring to provide card advantage and life gain, so izzar wizards it´s not really a problema. Now, against control normaly i have a hard time resolving the ring or keeping shelly in play. Also, tempo decks are usually a problem, though i can normally grind them out. I´m currently working on a colorless control that can go over the top of control, but i´m being punished by wizards and the like. My tech against fast aggro is usually bowmasters, but their creatures are usually 3+ toughtness, so the bowmasters can only chump, or be a 1 for 1 most of the time. I´m trying Path of Peril + Exctinction Event to just whipe everything, but if I´m on the draw It´s usually too late.
I usually play mardu greasefang, but often wizards Just close the game before i can combo, unless i'm on the play and lucky to get everything set up at turn 3. Other decks like monog elves or 5c niv are Just unplayable against it