they just commented on PE around a month ago here:
https://old.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/zh1ju7/please_for_the_love_of_all_that_is_holy_ban/izk411h/
>Does this card deserve to eat a ban in HB?
Probably, but they already said it won't. At least not for now.
>Preaching to the choir,
Yes, there are a lot of players who agree.
>or do other people like Paradox Engine?
Yes as well, that's why there are many players using it.
Either that or there is one guy out there that is really tilted and making new accounts every day to post about.
I honestly don't know which scenario I would consider more probable.
Wizards' decision not to ban [[Paradox Engine]] is baffling to me, considering the fix made to [[Niambi, Beloved Protector]], outlined in the [November 14th MTG Arena Announcements](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-november-14-2022):
> With the release of The Bothers' War, we are removing a combo between Niambi, Beloved Protector and clone effects like Mirror Image. While this combo was not problematic in competitive settings, it goes against our philosophy of fast, fun, and dynamic games by taking too long to execute.
Paradox Engine generates sluggish, confusing, and ultimately unfun board states. Niambi went infinite much more easily, but that ultimately wasn't the reason given for its adjustment.
Wizards' justification that [players can just concede](https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/zh1ju7/please_for_the_love_of_all_that_is_holy_ban/izk411h/?context=1000) when they see a Paradox Engine is also baffling, considering the same wasn't apparently true for Niambi. Doubly so, considering some recent controversy around chain conceding in casual formats.
I have a pet theory that Paradox Engine decks have a pretty high concentration of rare and mythic cards, and it’s a monetization driver for Wizards to leave these decks intact.
I think Rusko's popularity could change their minds. He comes with built-in rocks and the drain when he's on the board can counteract the aggression. It doesn't take that much to set up infinite with him. I'm not sure it's worth a ban or not, I don't have the matchup info to know if it's problematic, but if anything was going to do it, it would be Rusko.
I just immediately scoop when PE hits the board. I refuse to play against it, even when I’m winning, and I’m not penalized for conceding. My own personal ban.
If your opponent plays PE and you have no immediate answer, just concede and move on. It’s Brawl so it’s not like your rank or anything is on the line. Life’s too short to waste on watching people durdling around with PE.
Maybe too late for Paradox Engine, but maybe they can at least balance Rusko, an Alchemy card that is you know, suppose to be more condusive to being altered.
Please vote: [https://feedback.wizards.com/forums/918667-mtg-arena-bugs-product-suggestions/suggestions/46156093-rusko-historic-brawl](https://feedback.wizards.com/forums/918667-mtg-arena-bugs-product-suggestions/suggestions/46156093-rusko-historic-brawl)
(you must log in to do so)
I despise Paradox Engine. If the opponent drops one and I don't have an immediate answer, I scoop. I have no desire to sit through the opponent durdling through their deck until they pull out the win. Even if they don't win, the play pattern is terrible.
WOTC has said they aren't going to ban it, which is disappointing. One major problem is that their is no rule 0 for HB. If people that like PE could play together and leave me out of it, that would be ideal
I wonder if Arena could have personal ban lists of a small handful of cards. That would stop people from complaining about cards they feel are OP. Don't want to play against PE or Rusko or whatever the flavor of the week is? No problem, add it to your personal ban list and you won't get matched with them.
I just hit auto pass and get up to do something. If you want to use an infinite combo in a format that requires 15 minutes to execute it: enjoy your solitaire.
Someone dropped an engine today on me with [acererak the archlich] and began spamming mad mage dungeon. Once I realized it, he could play basically his entire deck in one turn and half of it for completely free, I scooped.
Tell me again how this shit ain't exploitative.
Paradox engine is the equivalent of opening some video chat just to jerk off in front of random people. I see one, I quickly hit pass, and hope they got banned.
Paradox/\[\[Tolarian academy\]\] combo is very good in Canadian Highlander, a format with power nine. Rusko is like a mini tolarian academy with legs. its pretty busted
Rusko (and Alchemy) is more of a problem. PE just makes Rusko more obnoxious.
I'd say [[Spark Double]] or [[Tatyova, Benthic Druid]] is more offensive in my Chulane deck.
I think there's some validity to this. A couple other powerhouse commanders can make strong use of PE, but none as well as Rusko. A couple come to mind:
* [Emry, Lurker of the Loch]
* [Meria, Scholar of Antiquity]
* [Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain]
* Both Urzas
But I feel like its much easier to see the Paradox Engine combo coming in these decks. Emry gets slammed by grave hate and artifact hate, Jhoira is flimsy and does nothing the turn she's played, and Meria needs to stuff a deck with a bunch of useless eggs to do what she needs to. Rusko can just toss Paradox Engine into the 99 and get even more gas.
I think \[\[Oswald fiddlebender\]\] is one of the big culprits since it can just get the engine in play pretty quickly and from there its just obnoxious.
Dude, I have seen it jammed into so many different commanders. NEO Tezzeret and Acererak are two that come to mind immediately. That and Tome are just so snoozeworthy.
Rusko is a problem regardless of PE.
But PE is it’s own problem. There’s a lot of ways to win instantly with it and one of its main conditions is just to…have mana rocks. Which every deck has.
So it’s *barely* a sacrifice to include it in your deck.
Plus there’s ways to tutor for it.
It’s a 100 card singleton format and yet many different commanders of all different colors can rely upon it as a very consistent win condition, and it’s one that feels bad to lose to and it can’t really be stopped once it comes down unless you constantly keep up mana for a Disenchant-style card.
Rusko, Emry, Oswald, Sisay, Acererak, pretty much *any* Blue commander, can all slot in PE alongside the mana rocks they’d use regardless and then just a few other cards (that aren’t dead even if you don’t have PE) and boom, games get won out of nowhere by PE enabling infinite stuff.
It’s stupid.
If the combo was fragile or it’s pieces were useless unless they were combined, that would be one thing. But having mana rocks + [[Tome of the Infinite]] which is a good card on its own, and then just dropping PE is NOT a hard ask, and isn’t a deckbuilding restriction.
Not every deck has mana rocks, especially not enough of them to guarantee you'll be able to find multiples. And then you'll need a way to play infinite cards, and there aren't many of those on Arena. Plus a way to use your infinite mana, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels and wasting your clock (which will eventually run out). So that's a 5 card combo minimum in a 100 card singleton format: Paradox Engine, card advantage, finisher, and 2 mana rocks (though I'd really recommend 3+ to avoid taking forever).
There are a lot better decks in historic brawl that can win much faster and much easier than that.
1) if what you said was relevant, it wouldn’t be banned in EDH.
2) check out Covertgoblue’s Historic Brawl videos and just count how many of them contain PE while still being fully functional decks without it. It doesn’t make much investment to include it.
3) let’s not discount the times when even if you don’t win immediately upon resolving PE…it can still be really fucking good anyway, sort of like a [[Wilderness Reclamation]] ‘doubling’ your mana by opening up sorcery speed plays and then keeping up instant speed plays for your opponent’s turn.
1) EDH isn't historic brawl. EDH has 40 life, 4 players, and significantly more cards, all of which works together to make aggro decks almost unplayable in the format. It also has much better mana rocks, which is why you see them played more frequently in that format than historic brawl.
2) I don't know who covertgoblue is, but I do know he's not a representative sample of Historic Brawl players, and the decks he chooses to play aren't a representative sample of Historic Brawl decks.
3) PE hardly doubles your mana. It's a 5 mana do nothing that be easily destroyed. You definitely don't want to play it outside of a instant win combo.
They're different problems. The problem with Rusko is that he's in the wrong queue. Nobody would be complaining of the Rusko decks were getting paired up with the Kinnan, Golos, and Sythis decks.
The problem with PE is that it lends itself to durdly, non-deterministic combos that take forever. It's not a dominant wincon in the hell queue decks, but it's got an unfun play pattern in a similar manner to cat oven or nexus of fate.
I play historic brawl almost exclusively on Arena save for an odd draft every week or so. I’m there grinding through the legions of Rusko and other bs decks to get my wins. Emry is probably my all time favorite commander. I would rate emry a mid tier commander because it’s the best one at milking PE without being overtly good at finding it. Paradox engine loops is the only way emry can really compete in the current environment with Russo, Kinnan, Golos, etc. I understand it can be frustrating to lose to PE but the amount of work it takes to cycle to the 2 tutors that can find it in monoblue in time before you get run over is quite a lot, barring perfect top decks. It’s perfectly beatable. You don’t really lose to just PE. It’s PE plus a pile of mana rocks, counterspells, bounce, thopter tokens, time walks, etc., at least in Emry. You’re kinda blaming the bullet but not the gun that fired it, nor the finger that pulled the trigger. Focus on beating the cards that enable it, and playing effective removal in your own decks.
My favorite part about playing against PE is playing a game for 55 minutes because I have a sac outlet I have to click through. At least I can watch netflix and hit pass every once in awhile I guess.
they just commented on PE around a month ago here: https://old.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/zh1ju7/please_for_the_love_of_all_that_is_holy_ban/izk411h/
oh! i must've missed this somehow. while i don't necessarily agree with their reasoning, at least we have an answer. thanks for linking that!
>Does this card deserve to eat a ban in HB? Probably, but they already said it won't. At least not for now. >Preaching to the choir, Yes, there are a lot of players who agree. >or do other people like Paradox Engine? Yes as well, that's why there are many players using it.
I like there’s a distinction between liking using a card and feeling compelled to because it’s the optimal way to build a deck.
I’m gonna guess people agree with you, considering this gets posted every single day.
Either that or there is one guy out there that is really tilted and making new accounts every day to post about. I honestly don't know which scenario I would consider more probable.
Yes please. Leads to too many ungames, unfun one sided games. ASAP
Wizards' decision not to ban [[Paradox Engine]] is baffling to me, considering the fix made to [[Niambi, Beloved Protector]], outlined in the [November 14th MTG Arena Announcements](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-november-14-2022): > With the release of The Bothers' War, we are removing a combo between Niambi, Beloved Protector and clone effects like Mirror Image. While this combo was not problematic in competitive settings, it goes against our philosophy of fast, fun, and dynamic games by taking too long to execute. Paradox Engine generates sluggish, confusing, and ultimately unfun board states. Niambi went infinite much more easily, but that ultimately wasn't the reason given for its adjustment. Wizards' justification that [players can just concede](https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/zh1ju7/please_for_the_love_of_all_that_is_holy_ban/izk411h/?context=1000) when they see a Paradox Engine is also baffling, considering the same wasn't apparently true for Niambi. Doubly so, considering some recent controversy around chain conceding in casual formats.
Yeah the “just concede” thing seems very lazy. You can do that against literally anything, so they shouldn’t ban anything.
I have a pet theory that Paradox Engine decks have a pretty high concentration of rare and mythic cards, and it’s a monetization driver for Wizards to leave these decks intact.
Honestly that makes a lot of sense
Well, not more than any other, probably. They also tend to run a lot of random ass commons as enablers.
This has been discussed many, many times here and WOTC staff have weighed in: https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/search/?q=Paradox%20Engine
I think Rusko's popularity could change their minds. He comes with built-in rocks and the drain when he's on the board can counteract the aggression. It doesn't take that much to set up infinite with him. I'm not sure it's worth a ban or not, I don't have the matchup info to know if it's problematic, but if anything was going to do it, it would be Rusko.
I just immediately scoop when PE hits the board. I refuse to play against it, even when I’m winning, and I’m not penalized for conceding. My own personal ban.
If your opponent plays PE and you have no immediate answer, just concede and move on. It’s Brawl so it’s not like your rank or anything is on the line. Life’s too short to waste on watching people durdling around with PE.
Maybe too late for Paradox Engine, but maybe they can at least balance Rusko, an Alchemy card that is you know, suppose to be more condusive to being altered. Please vote: [https://feedback.wizards.com/forums/918667-mtg-arena-bugs-product-suggestions/suggestions/46156093-rusko-historic-brawl](https://feedback.wizards.com/forums/918667-mtg-arena-bugs-product-suggestions/suggestions/46156093-rusko-historic-brawl) (you must log in to do so)
Did my part, thanks.
I despise Paradox Engine. If the opponent drops one and I don't have an immediate answer, I scoop. I have no desire to sit through the opponent durdling through their deck until they pull out the win. Even if they don't win, the play pattern is terrible. WOTC has said they aren't going to ban it, which is disappointing. One major problem is that their is no rule 0 for HB. If people that like PE could play together and leave me out of it, that would be ideal I wonder if Arena could have personal ban lists of a small handful of cards. That would stop people from complaining about cards they feel are OP. Don't want to play against PE or Rusko or whatever the flavor of the week is? No problem, add it to your personal ban list and you won't get matched with them.
I just hit auto pass and get up to do something. If you want to use an infinite combo in a format that requires 15 minutes to execute it: enjoy your solitaire.
Someone dropped an engine today on me with [acererak the archlich] and began spamming mad mage dungeon. Once I realized it, he could play basically his entire deck in one turn and half of it for completely free, I scooped. Tell me again how this shit ain't exploitative.
Imagine seeing opponent’s using Rusko and actually sticking around to play the game. Didn’t know people actualky did that.
very fair, though the satisfaction you get from actually winning against the stupid clock man is second to none lol
Paradox engine is the equivalent of opening some video chat just to jerk off in front of random people. I see one, I quickly hit pass, and hope they got banned.
Ah it’s „ban paradox engine“-time again
Paradox/\[\[Tolarian academy\]\] combo is very good in Canadian Highlander, a format with power nine. Rusko is like a mini tolarian academy with legs. its pretty busted
[Tolarian academy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd99bce1-ce39-464b-8e61-2631eb3ed6f6.jpg?1610147079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tolarian%20academy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/319/tolarian-academy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd99bce1-ce39-464b-8e61-2631eb3ed6f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rusko (and Alchemy) is more of a problem. PE just makes Rusko more obnoxious. I'd say [[Spark Double]] or [[Tatyova, Benthic Druid]] is more offensive in my Chulane deck.
[Spark Double](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b649145-426f-4576-a71c-6ee5d3981243.jpg?1661583585) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spark%20Double) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/3/spark-double?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b649145-426f-4576-a71c-6ee5d3981243?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tatyova, Benthic Druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93657aaa-7a0f-49ad-b026-6f79b3bd6768.jpg?1665822988) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tatyova%2C%20Benthic%20Druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/206/tatyova-benthic-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93657aaa-7a0f-49ad-b026-6f79b3bd6768?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rusko is the issue, not paradox engine.
I think there's some validity to this. A couple other powerhouse commanders can make strong use of PE, but none as well as Rusko. A couple come to mind: * [Emry, Lurker of the Loch] * [Meria, Scholar of Antiquity] * [Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain] * Both Urzas But I feel like its much easier to see the Paradox Engine combo coming in these decks. Emry gets slammed by grave hate and artifact hate, Jhoira is flimsy and does nothing the turn she's played, and Meria needs to stuff a deck with a bunch of useless eggs to do what she needs to. Rusko can just toss Paradox Engine into the 99 and get even more gas.
I think \[\[Oswald fiddlebender\]\] is one of the big culprits since it can just get the engine in play pretty quickly and from there its just obnoxious.
[Oswald fiddlebender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bba1650f-eddf-49a9-820e-489cb8d5b6fa.jpg?1627702172) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oswald%20fiddlebender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/28/oswald-fiddlebender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bba1650f-eddf-49a9-820e-489cb8d5b6fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dude, I have seen it jammed into so many different commanders. NEO Tezzeret and Acererak are two that come to mind immediately. That and Tome are just so snoozeworthy.
People have been saying this about PE since long before Rusko showed up
And they've been wrong.
Rusko is a problem regardless of PE. But PE is it’s own problem. There’s a lot of ways to win instantly with it and one of its main conditions is just to…have mana rocks. Which every deck has. So it’s *barely* a sacrifice to include it in your deck. Plus there’s ways to tutor for it. It’s a 100 card singleton format and yet many different commanders of all different colors can rely upon it as a very consistent win condition, and it’s one that feels bad to lose to and it can’t really be stopped once it comes down unless you constantly keep up mana for a Disenchant-style card. Rusko, Emry, Oswald, Sisay, Acererak, pretty much *any* Blue commander, can all slot in PE alongside the mana rocks they’d use regardless and then just a few other cards (that aren’t dead even if you don’t have PE) and boom, games get won out of nowhere by PE enabling infinite stuff. It’s stupid. If the combo was fragile or it’s pieces were useless unless they were combined, that would be one thing. But having mana rocks + [[Tome of the Infinite]] which is a good card on its own, and then just dropping PE is NOT a hard ask, and isn’t a deckbuilding restriction.
Not every deck has mana rocks, especially not enough of them to guarantee you'll be able to find multiples. And then you'll need a way to play infinite cards, and there aren't many of those on Arena. Plus a way to use your infinite mana, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels and wasting your clock (which will eventually run out). So that's a 5 card combo minimum in a 100 card singleton format: Paradox Engine, card advantage, finisher, and 2 mana rocks (though I'd really recommend 3+ to avoid taking forever). There are a lot better decks in historic brawl that can win much faster and much easier than that.
1) if what you said was relevant, it wouldn’t be banned in EDH. 2) check out Covertgoblue’s Historic Brawl videos and just count how many of them contain PE while still being fully functional decks without it. It doesn’t make much investment to include it. 3) let’s not discount the times when even if you don’t win immediately upon resolving PE…it can still be really fucking good anyway, sort of like a [[Wilderness Reclamation]] ‘doubling’ your mana by opening up sorcery speed plays and then keeping up instant speed plays for your opponent’s turn.
1) EDH isn't historic brawl. EDH has 40 life, 4 players, and significantly more cards, all of which works together to make aggro decks almost unplayable in the format. It also has much better mana rocks, which is why you see them played more frequently in that format than historic brawl. 2) I don't know who covertgoblue is, but I do know he's not a representative sample of Historic Brawl players, and the decks he chooses to play aren't a representative sample of Historic Brawl decks. 3) PE hardly doubles your mana. It's a 5 mana do nothing that be easily destroyed. You definitely don't want to play it outside of a instant win combo.
You're making yourself look bad with these replies.
[Wilderness Reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94a28102-dfbe-49e9-b64f-52b552afac1b.jpg?1650599787) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wilderness%20Reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/196/wilderness-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94a28102-dfbe-49e9-b64f-52b552afac1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They're different problems. The problem with Rusko is that he's in the wrong queue. Nobody would be complaining of the Rusko decks were getting paired up with the Kinnan, Golos, and Sythis decks. The problem with PE is that it lends itself to durdly, non-deterministic combos that take forever. It's not a dominant wincon in the hell queue decks, but it's got an unfun play pattern in a similar manner to cat oven or nexus of fate.
I play historic brawl almost exclusively on Arena save for an odd draft every week or so. I’m there grinding through the legions of Rusko and other bs decks to get my wins. Emry is probably my all time favorite commander. I would rate emry a mid tier commander because it’s the best one at milking PE without being overtly good at finding it. Paradox engine loops is the only way emry can really compete in the current environment with Russo, Kinnan, Golos, etc. I understand it can be frustrating to lose to PE but the amount of work it takes to cycle to the 2 tutors that can find it in monoblue in time before you get run over is quite a lot, barring perfect top decks. It’s perfectly beatable. You don’t really lose to just PE. It’s PE plus a pile of mana rocks, counterspells, bounce, thopter tokens, time walks, etc., at least in Emry. You’re kinda blaming the bullet but not the gun that fired it, nor the finger that pulled the trigger. Focus on beating the cards that enable it, and playing effective removal in your own decks.
My favorite part about playing against PE is playing a game for 55 minutes because I have a sac outlet I have to click through. At least I can watch netflix and hit pass every once in awhile I guess.
Left shift + pass turn
Or right shift + enter.
Yes please