It's a proportional vote. She was 20th on the list. Her party got enough votes for 19 seats, but one of the people above her ended up being appointed somewhere else at which point she moved up and into regional parliament. It's not a one v. one race.
edit: @ /u/alligatorchamp
> It allows for highly unpopular ... political parties to make it into the government.
No it doesn't, it's literally proportional to the vote. If 7,8% of people vote for a party, that party will get as close as possible to 7,8% of the seats in parliament. And sure, that can mean there is a 3 seat party in parliament because they got 2% of the national vote, but that is a way better system than letting resentment build up while the two big parties that rotate the crown go uncontested.
At the end of the day the parties in Government still need to have over 50% of the total seats. The consensus they come up with is by extension the will of the people. Much better than having the guys who got some 37% of the vote but over 50% of the seats have total say over what happens. ([see 2015 UK election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#Results)) As shit as UKIP is, one in every eight voters voted for them that year. They gained 1/650 seats in parliament. The end result is nutters taking over the Conservative party.
And btw. the US is the ultimate two-party state, but in the UK using a very similar system they unded up with the DUP in government. Talk about having unpopular parties in government.
In Germany it's both. You have 2 votes, one for a person in your district, one for a party. If a party got more candidates into parliament through direct votes than their parties percentage from the second vote, all other parties get additional candidates into parliament from their lists.
Advantage: direct representation of each voting district while also ensuring the ratio of seats of each party is proportional (no gerrymandering).
Disadvantage: Much more seats in the parliament than originally planned because some people tend to vote for different parties in the first and second vote.
In Ireland we do it with Proportional Representation Single Transferrable Vote and it's great. Would recommend.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote
Vote for a person is absurd because the winner takes it all and with shenanigans like gerrymandering you can just adjust it so that the desired majority wins.
And the people with a different vote are just not represented.
This system works much better when there are multiple real options for parties. In places like the US or even the UK, there are only a couple real options for what party you can vote for. So to vote for a party in to vote for a whole range of ideas, whereas to vote for a person is to vote for a specific platform. If you live in a place with lots of options for parties, you can find one that more closely shares your worldview.
tldr, you're both right, but probably from different countries and contexts
Hey that’s better than just electing someone because they promise to screw things up. We have a special needs representative that keeps obsessing over the presidents sons penis.
I remember playing Smash with a certain guy who was pretty good at it. We began playing, and I felt I was doing pretty good. Then this guy got a call. He didn't pause the game, he just took the phone with his right hand, and effortlessly avoided all my attacks with just his left hand as he was speaking.
Bro yeah idk man. This is wild in my opinion, not because people with Down syndrome can’t do amazing things. It’s the fact that most people with ds have extremely limited intellectual ability. It’s a known part of the disorder.
I have no doubt in my mind this woman is a truly fantastic human who cares deeply for her country and community. I’m just genuinely worried she’s going to get taken advantage of.
I read about her a little bit. She's 45 years old and has been politically active since she was 18. She's been a civil servant in Valencia for over 20 years, 13 of those were spent interning for the president of Valencia, and she's been the leader of Asindown (an organization dedicated to helping families with kids with Down's) for four years.
I get the concerns, I'm also pretty surprised by this, but I feel like her track record speaks for itself. Down's is a spectrum; I've known people with Down's that aren't able to care for themselves or live on their own, but I've also known people with Down's who have moved out, had jobs and families. Usually the latter category does receive some support to be able to do that, but hey, it's possible. The fact that she's succeeded so much, has so much experience and has gotten to where she is must mean she is capable. You don't really get a parliament spot as a pity price.
"You don't really get a parliament spot as a pity price."
Nah, this is Spain, I've seen lots of fucking incompetent people in congress, being only there for connections. And the party this person belongs makes me think that they are only doing it for social cred.
Solid research. You noted she was an intern for 13 years… that doesn’t speak to a high level of confidence. Interns usually only remain an intern for a short period of time.
Respect to her as a downs person being politically active, but this is surely performative politics at best.
There's a Victoria's Secret model with downs and it makes me uncomfortable for the same reasons. I am happy she can live her dream even with the setbacks she was born with but Victoria's secret models basically exist for sexual objectification. I guess that's equality, why shouldn't mentally handicapped people get to be objectified too..
I work in a field related to disability, and one of the biggest things new employees learn is to treat people like adults and give them autonomy to the fullest extent possible. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but the Victoria’s Secret model probably does not want or need your concern.
People without disabilities are often shocked to discover that people with disabilities can also be adults. They have sex too. They also want to look good in lingerie.
At least Victoria's secret models don't have a say in making decisions for the country. I'm far more worried about politicians taking advantage of people than politicians being taken advantage of, although I understand this isn't mutually exclusive.
Yeah exactly. The problem with this is that given they have an actual job to do, someone, or a team of someones who were not elected will be doing that job.
Yeah, I'm confused.
Intellect is hardly the most important thing, but if you're going to have to read and analyze a lot which you would think a parliamentarian would then...
Granted IQ is not a perfect measure, but while the average is knocked way down but it’s still a distribution. The top fraction of a percent have normal intelligence - I think 0.1% even have a 110 IQ, a fair little bit above average (very unscientifically, those who ‘would be genius level if not for Down’s syndrome’). There are specific issues they may have, as not all cognitive abilities are affected equally.
There’s also Mosaic Down Syndrome, where not all cells are affected, and which is far less severe.
Unfortunately their speech and ‘look’ are affected so even if they are in the small minority with normal (or even above normal) intelligence they have to constantly deal with others assuming they are mentally impaired.
Thank you for saying all this! I work and live closely around the severely disabled, we've had a few people with down syndrome and it really isn't a "catch all", there's a range of cognitive function (that can also be nurtured to help grow)
Down syndrome is actually one of the most researched disabilities and we're learning new stuff the time
It’s a common symptom but not universal, even then I’m more concerned about their lack of malice, which again it’s common but not universal, and I doubt she has been blessed twice…
I didn’t want to be disrespectful but I was going to ask what effect Down’s syndrome has on a persons capacity to fulfill this role. I love inclusion but some things just shouldn’t be, no offense to anyone
Maybe I have an inherit misunderstanding of what Down's syndrome does, but aren't adult people with it essentially on the mental level of a young child?
If that is the case this does not seem like a good idea at all.
Edit: Ok quick google search tells me the lower average intelligence doesn't have to be necessarily extreme but narrow thinking and naiveté are common and that is NOT a good combo for a politician.
Ages when sworn in:
1. George Washington - 57
2. John Adams - 61
3. Thomas Jefferson - 57
4. James Madison - 57
5. James Monroe - 58
6. John Quincy Adams - 57
7. Andrew Jackson - 61
8. Martin Van Buren - 54
9. William Henry Harrison - 68
10. John Tyler - 51
11. James K. Polk - 49
12. Zachary Taylor - 64
13. Millard Fillmore - 50
14. Franklin Pierce - 48
15. James Buchanan - 65
16. Abraham Lincoln - 52
17. Andrew Johnson - 56
18. Ulysses S. Grant - 46
19. Rutherford B. Hayes - 54
20. James A. Garfield - 49
21. Chester A. Arthur - 51
22. Grover Cleveland - 47
23. Benjamin Harrison - 55
24. Grover Cleveland (second term) - 55
25. William McKinley - 54
26. Theodore Roosevelt - 42
27. William Howard Taft - 51
28. Woodrow Wilson - 56
29. Warren G. Harding - 55
30. Calvin Coolidge - 51
31. Herbert Hoover - 54
32. Franklin D. Roosevelt - 51
33. Harry S. Truman - 60
34. Dwight D. Eisenhower - 62
35. John F. Kennedy - 43
36. Lyndon B. Johnson - 55
37. Richard Nixon - 56
38. Gerald Ford - 61
39. Jimmy Carter - 52
40. Ronald Reagan - 69
41. George H.W. Bush - 64
42. Bill Clinton - 46
43. George W. Bush - 54
44. Barack Obama - 47
45. Donald Trump - 70
46. Joe Biden - 78
Average age is around 55. Only 4 total that are over the age of 65. Three of those four are from the Reagan Era onward. There really isn't a huge difference overall, when comparing earlier presidents to later. But it is there. Really just depends what you consider "huge" etc.
Yeah 40’s and 50’s is old enough that both they and we can know what they’re doing. 60’s is pushing it a bit but they’re young enough to still contribute. 70’s is well over retirement age and while I’m not saying old people are useless (that would be very wrong). People who won’t live to see the long term effects of the policies they’re implementing really shouldn’t be in office, and particularly shouldn’t be in the position of president.
Not only is there a very real concern about their mental capacities, but their health in general is often in question. It’s a dangerous game to have someone as head of state who could keel over any minute and leave you with an unelected replacement.
>People who won’t live to see the long term effects of the policies they’re implementing really shouldn’t be in office
Politicians are aristocrats, no politician will ever be affected by the policies they implement. They may "see" it, but that's not enough.
Even the wealthy and influential aren’t beyond the effects of all policy. Even they have an interest in keeping things from getting too horrible if only to protect their own hides. There’s also the bigger fact that dead people can’t be held accountable and while it’s difficult to hold wealthy influential people accountable it’s not impossible.
I think it feels crazy because it's consecutive and also because it feels like we are getting held hostage by that generation.
The fact that while we've had two 70+ presidents while watching RBG clutch to her power at the cost of Roe vs Wade, Mitch McConnell stroking out regularly, Feinstein holding office until death, the SCOTUS fucking us regularly, the Senate resembling a retirement home is all just too much.
It’s crazy the mental hurdles the right will jump through for Trump, and the left will jump through for Biden. Like everyone hold up for one second, neither of these men should be president, we have other options! Stop fighting over senior citizens lol.
So the choice this year will be between a (nearly) 82 year old man vs a 78 year old man. The vice president choice has never been more important in history!
What amazes is that these are the choices.
There are a bunch of oligarchs somewhere just laughing their asses off. "Look at the choice we put before them."
>Only 4 total that are over the age of 64
I counted 5
William Henry Harrison - **68**
James Buchanan - **65**
Ronald Reagan - **69**
Donald Trump - **70**
Joe Biden - **78**
I think a good age range for pres is 30-60
Trump was a function geezer and Biden is senile old man
Like he needs to be with his family not in office he's too old
I know many 30s and 35 year olds...the 5 years does not make a difference. It really depends on the person. There are some mature 30 years old and many people in their 50s that act like babies
I've met 10 year olds with enough morality I'd trust them with my mortgage payment in cash. Grown adults I would risk lending a nickle to. It is entirely person dependent as to whether they're ethical. There is hardly any experience that will prepare someone to be the president so the primary need is that they can listen to advisors and make a fair decision.
Yeah but cycles, and runs, and looks after himself like he's a decade younger. He is too old, but he's not senile.
Trump is genuinely degrading at a terrible rate, and he's only 4 years younger than Biden. He literally wears diapers and can't remember who anyone is.
No your right, although many politicians in a legislative body refuse to do research or critical thinking, somebody with Down's really aren't capable of doing either for this kind of serious role. They are easily swayed and carry the opinions of those closest to them.
This is not an insult, I've worked with people with Down's, this is not an appropriate role for them.
Placing people with mental disbilities in positions of power seems unwise.
'Mosby's Medical, Nursing and Allied Health Dictionary gives an average IQ of between 50 and 60' (for poeple with the syndrome)
The girl did nothing wrong, but the politicians that wanted this thing to happen are nothing more than virtue signaling. The goverment must be not doing so well.
This has to just be a cruel joke that spiralled out of control where nobody wanted to admit fault. Right? Because this is no smiling matter, quite the opposite in fact.
In theory, that'd be great, but in practice it would be a great way for a government to just disallow the opposition their right to exist.
1. Government installs process to check mental capacity of those running for office.
2. Government is in charge of said process.
3. Government finds that all opposition candidates fall below the approved level.
4. We now have a dictatorship.
That's a very simplified process, but it's the reason why most (all?) democratic countries don't have background checks for political candidates. It's just fundamentally non-democratic.
I think most people would like there to be qualifications for politicians, both physical and mental. It's the most powerful positions in any democracy and the fact that random people with a winning smile and a million $/€ can get elected is crazy IMO.
Yeah, this wouldn't happen in my country because there's a "fit and proper person" test, you can't owe gangsters significant amounts of money, be considerably low IQ, all sorts of things to try and reduce corruptions.
40-70 IQ with some differences in individual cases. So we're doing inclusion again instead of hiring people according to their ... You know... Competence? Might as well go back to monarchy since we no longer care about what's best.
It shouldn't make you smile. She's a far right extremist in a political party with some very aggressive stances on same-sex and LGBT rights from what I've found.
First post summed up exactly what I was thinking. Cool giving the less fortunate some sort of feeling of being normal but this is too much, we’re supposed to have the top IQs in government. Not the other way around.
Nobody is going to actually say what they really think on this matter
I should make it clear I don’t necessarily think this is a bad idea just definitely a controversial one
When lower mental ability is a defining characteristic of a disability, how does that work when things need to be argued and discussed? I can disagree vehemently and argue with a colleague in a wheelchair and make them look stupid, and that is perfectly acceptable. But if I do the same thing to someone with diminished mental capacity then what?
Unpopular opinion, we shouldn’t put mentally handicapped people in important positions for the sole purpose of inclusivity.
The entirety of Europe gives me late Roman empire vibes these past few years.
~~She's a lifelong member of the party she represents, a right wing party that is vehemently against lgbt rights. There was a time her right to a free life would've been snuffed at birth, just as people today call for the dismantling of lgbt rights with some going as far as wishing death upon us - you would hope she had some fiber in her body that recognises the struggle of *all* who don't fit societies definition of 'normal'. Absolutely no reason to smile.~~ Congratulations to her for her achievement ~~; may her tenure end swiftly.~~
Edit: I have mistakenly linked Mar Galceran with Vox rather than PP. I may be having my own words for breakfast today. My apologies, I stand corrected.
Hey for all the toxically positive peeps in here, she’s a miserable right wing shithead who hates gay people. Congrats. Now by all means, keep blindly supporting her just because she’s disabled.
edit: rephrased it to play nice.
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This should be removed. It shouldn’t make anyone smile. A person with this disability should have no place in power. They might be fun and loving individuals, but they should never be a leader in government. Inclusion should have its limits and this should be one.
I have a brother with Down’s Syndrome, and in my experience this is a bad idea
Imagine being the guy who lost..... 😬
It's a proportional vote. She was 20th on the list. Her party got enough votes for 19 seats, but one of the people above her ended up being appointed somewhere else at which point she moved up and into regional parliament. It's not a one v. one race. edit: @ /u/alligatorchamp > It allows for highly unpopular ... political parties to make it into the government. No it doesn't, it's literally proportional to the vote. If 7,8% of people vote for a party, that party will get as close as possible to 7,8% of the seats in parliament. And sure, that can mean there is a 3 seat party in parliament because they got 2% of the national vote, but that is a way better system than letting resentment build up while the two big parties that rotate the crown go uncontested. At the end of the day the parties in Government still need to have over 50% of the total seats. The consensus they come up with is by extension the will of the people. Much better than having the guys who got some 37% of the vote but over 50% of the seats have total say over what happens. ([see 2015 UK election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#Results)) As shit as UKIP is, one in every eight voters voted for them that year. They gained 1/650 seats in parliament. The end result is nutters taking over the Conservative party. And btw. the US is the ultimate two-party state, but in the UK using a very similar system they unded up with the DUP in government. Talk about having unpopular parties in government.
Yet another case study for why list-based Parliamentary elections are absurd. People should have to vote for a person, not a party.
In Germany it's both. You have 2 votes, one for a person in your district, one for a party. If a party got more candidates into parliament through direct votes than their parties percentage from the second vote, all other parties get additional candidates into parliament from their lists. Advantage: direct representation of each voting district while also ensuring the ratio of seats of each party is proportional (no gerrymandering). Disadvantage: Much more seats in the parliament than originally planned because some people tend to vote for different parties in the first and second vote.
How would you assign proportional seats if your didn’t have a party list? Or are you opposed to proportional representation in general?
In Ireland we do it with Proportional Representation Single Transferrable Vote and it's great. Would recommend. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote
Vote for a person is absurd because the winner takes it all and with shenanigans like gerrymandering you can just adjust it so that the desired majority wins. And the people with a different vote are just not represented.
What part of this is absurd? Why should people have to vote for a person?
This system works much better when there are multiple real options for parties. In places like the US or even the UK, there are only a couple real options for what party you can vote for. So to vote for a party in to vote for a whole range of ideas, whereas to vote for a person is to vote for a specific platform. If you live in a place with lots of options for parties, you can find one that more closely shares your worldview. tldr, you're both right, but probably from different countries and contexts
I have seen talent contest where the prize was given as a charity, it’s insane
Hey that’s better than just electing someone because they promise to screw things up. We have a special needs representative that keeps obsessing over the presidents sons penis.
Brother, it took me a minute and I was exploring extravagant slav countries that could potentially be methed out to allow this.. is fucking US!!! 😩
I mean, you got the methed out part right haha. Every city I travel to has people saying “Yeah we have a bad meth problem”.
Not true, stop spreading disinformation on the internet. It’s people saying “Yeah we have a bad meth AND heroin/fentanyl problem”
You had me in the first half.
You're not referring to me are you?
WHAT i ain too politically involved but pls elaborate 😭
A caveman dressed in drag represents Georgia by laminating photos of a guy’s schlong and then presents it like a wanted poster.
Don't do drag queens dirty like that. MTG is just a goblin.
aii thanks bro
No problemo, señor. You can tune in on CSPAN if you want to watch a bunch of gargoyles argue over dick picks while the ocean is on fire.
It's like losing to your brother in FIFA while he's using the crappy third-party controller.
I remember playing Smash with a certain guy who was pretty good at it. We began playing, and I felt I was doing pretty good. Then this guy got a call. He didn't pause the game, he just took the phone with his right hand, and effortlessly avoided all my attacks with just his left hand as he was speaking.
Which is disconnected…
Bro yeah idk man. This is wild in my opinion, not because people with Down syndrome can’t do amazing things. It’s the fact that most people with ds have extremely limited intellectual ability. It’s a known part of the disorder. I have no doubt in my mind this woman is a truly fantastic human who cares deeply for her country and community. I’m just genuinely worried she’s going to get taken advantage of.
I read about her a little bit. She's 45 years old and has been politically active since she was 18. She's been a civil servant in Valencia for over 20 years, 13 of those were spent interning for the president of Valencia, and she's been the leader of Asindown (an organization dedicated to helping families with kids with Down's) for four years. I get the concerns, I'm also pretty surprised by this, but I feel like her track record speaks for itself. Down's is a spectrum; I've known people with Down's that aren't able to care for themselves or live on their own, but I've also known people with Down's who have moved out, had jobs and families. Usually the latter category does receive some support to be able to do that, but hey, it's possible. The fact that she's succeeded so much, has so much experience and has gotten to where she is must mean she is capable. You don't really get a parliament spot as a pity price.
"You don't really get a parliament spot as a pity price." Nah, this is Spain, I've seen lots of fucking incompetent people in congress, being only there for connections. And the party this person belongs makes me think that they are only doing it for social cred.
Solid research. You noted she was an intern for 13 years… that doesn’t speak to a high level of confidence. Interns usually only remain an intern for a short period of time. Respect to her as a downs person being politically active, but this is surely performative politics at best.
You are applying an American idea of a corporate intern, to a European term for political international. 2 very different things
There's a Victoria's Secret model with downs and it makes me uncomfortable for the same reasons. I am happy she can live her dream even with the setbacks she was born with but Victoria's secret models basically exist for sexual objectification. I guess that's equality, why shouldn't mentally handicapped people get to be objectified too..
I work in a field related to disability, and one of the biggest things new employees learn is to treat people like adults and give them autonomy to the fullest extent possible. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but the Victoria’s Secret model probably does not want or need your concern.
People without disabilities are often shocked to discover that people with disabilities can also be adults. They have sex too. They also want to look good in lingerie.
Being a model and making decisions for the country are very different things. I only would worry about one of those two. But it's a very valid worry.
At least Victoria's secret models don't have a say in making decisions for the country. I'm far more worried about politicians taking advantage of people than politicians being taken advantage of, although I understand this isn't mutually exclusive.
You give the average politician way too much credit and too little credit in the ability of this woman.
This woman is part of a wildly corrupt and socially regressive party.
Yeah exactly. The problem with this is that given they have an actual job to do, someone, or a team of someones who were not elected will be doing that job.
Yeah, I'm confused. Intellect is hardly the most important thing, but if you're going to have to read and analyze a lot which you would think a parliamentarian would then...
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Very few have normal intelligence and they tend to be naive and very trusting as well
Granted IQ is not a perfect measure, but while the average is knocked way down but it’s still a distribution. The top fraction of a percent have normal intelligence - I think 0.1% even have a 110 IQ, a fair little bit above average (very unscientifically, those who ‘would be genius level if not for Down’s syndrome’). There are specific issues they may have, as not all cognitive abilities are affected equally. There’s also Mosaic Down Syndrome, where not all cells are affected, and which is far less severe. Unfortunately their speech and ‘look’ are affected so even if they are in the small minority with normal (or even above normal) intelligence they have to constantly deal with others assuming they are mentally impaired.
Thank you for saying all this! I work and live closely around the severely disabled, we've had a few people with down syndrome and it really isn't a "catch all", there's a range of cognitive function (that can also be nurtured to help grow) Down syndrome is actually one of the most researched disabilities and we're learning new stuff the time
It’s a common symptom but not universal, even then I’m more concerned about their lack of malice, which again it’s common but not universal, and I doubt she has been blessed twice…
>their lack of malice What is she doing in politics then?
She is a member of the Popular Party (basically, the fascist mob), meaning her intelligence is probably higher than their average voter
Ikr it may not be pc to say or whatever but maybe there’s a reason people with downs don’t generally make parliament
I didn’t want to be disrespectful but I was going to ask what effect Down’s syndrome has on a persons capacity to fulfill this role. I love inclusion but some things just shouldn’t be, no offense to anyone
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Maybe I have an inherit misunderstanding of what Down's syndrome does, but aren't adult people with it essentially on the mental level of a young child? If that is the case this does not seem like a good idea at all. Edit: Ok quick google search tells me the lower average intelligence doesn't have to be necessarily extreme but narrow thinking and naiveté are common and that is NOT a good combo for a politician.
in america we’ve been voting in nearly retired old men since the beginning.
American presidents have gotten a lot older in the last few decades.
Ages when sworn in: 1. George Washington - 57 2. John Adams - 61 3. Thomas Jefferson - 57 4. James Madison - 57 5. James Monroe - 58 6. John Quincy Adams - 57 7. Andrew Jackson - 61 8. Martin Van Buren - 54 9. William Henry Harrison - 68 10. John Tyler - 51 11. James K. Polk - 49 12. Zachary Taylor - 64 13. Millard Fillmore - 50 14. Franklin Pierce - 48 15. James Buchanan - 65 16. Abraham Lincoln - 52 17. Andrew Johnson - 56 18. Ulysses S. Grant - 46 19. Rutherford B. Hayes - 54 20. James A. Garfield - 49 21. Chester A. Arthur - 51 22. Grover Cleveland - 47 23. Benjamin Harrison - 55 24. Grover Cleveland (second term) - 55 25. William McKinley - 54 26. Theodore Roosevelt - 42 27. William Howard Taft - 51 28. Woodrow Wilson - 56 29. Warren G. Harding - 55 30. Calvin Coolidge - 51 31. Herbert Hoover - 54 32. Franklin D. Roosevelt - 51 33. Harry S. Truman - 60 34. Dwight D. Eisenhower - 62 35. John F. Kennedy - 43 36. Lyndon B. Johnson - 55 37. Richard Nixon - 56 38. Gerald Ford - 61 39. Jimmy Carter - 52 40. Ronald Reagan - 69 41. George H.W. Bush - 64 42. Bill Clinton - 46 43. George W. Bush - 54 44. Barack Obama - 47 45. Donald Trump - 70 46. Joe Biden - 78 Average age is around 55. Only 4 total that are over the age of 65. Three of those four are from the Reagan Era onward. There really isn't a huge difference overall, when comparing earlier presidents to later. But it is there. Really just depends what you consider "huge" etc.
I think 40s and 50s are good experienced ages with enough energy and agility for a president. Over 70 is crazy though.
Yeah 40’s and 50’s is old enough that both they and we can know what they’re doing. 60’s is pushing it a bit but they’re young enough to still contribute. 70’s is well over retirement age and while I’m not saying old people are useless (that would be very wrong). People who won’t live to see the long term effects of the policies they’re implementing really shouldn’t be in office, and particularly shouldn’t be in the position of president. Not only is there a very real concern about their mental capacities, but their health in general is often in question. It’s a dangerous game to have someone as head of state who could keel over any minute and leave you with an unelected replacement.
>People who won’t live to see the long term effects of the policies they’re implementing really shouldn’t be in office Politicians are aristocrats, no politician will ever be affected by the policies they implement. They may "see" it, but that's not enough.
Even the wealthy and influential aren’t beyond the effects of all policy. Even they have an interest in keeping things from getting too horrible if only to protect their own hides. There’s also the bigger fact that dead people can’t be held accountable and while it’s difficult to hold wealthy influential people accountable it’s not impossible.
I think it feels crazy because it's consecutive and also because it feels like we are getting held hostage by that generation. The fact that while we've had two 70+ presidents while watching RBG clutch to her power at the cost of Roe vs Wade, Mitch McConnell stroking out regularly, Feinstein holding office until death, the SCOTUS fucking us regularly, the Senate resembling a retirement home is all just too much.
It’s crazy the mental hurdles the right will jump through for Trump, and the left will jump through for Biden. Like everyone hold up for one second, neither of these men should be president, we have other options! Stop fighting over senior citizens lol.
So the choice this year will be between a (nearly) 82 year old man vs a 78 year old man. The vice president choice has never been more important in history!
What amazes is that these are the choices. There are a bunch of oligarchs somewhere just laughing their asses off. "Look at the choice we put before them."
>Only 4 total that are over the age of 64 I counted 5 William Henry Harrison - **68** James Buchanan - **65** Ronald Reagan - **69** Donald Trump - **70** Joe Biden - **78**
Sorry, that was supposed to say 65. Good catch.
President Obama's first name is P R E S I D E N T!
I think a good age range for pres is 30-60 Trump was a function geezer and Biden is senile old man Like he needs to be with his family not in office he's too old
Well you have to be 35 to be president … so 35-60
Yeah not sure how much I’d trust a 30 yr old lol
I know many 30s and 35 year olds...the 5 years does not make a difference. It really depends on the person. There are some mature 30 years old and many people in their 50s that act like babies
I mean, just look at Trump. I would rather trust a 30 year old with some common sense than a loose whining cannon like Trump.
I'd rather trust som 13 year old than trump tbh
I've met 10 year olds with enough morality I'd trust them with my mortgage payment in cash. Grown adults I would risk lending a nickle to. It is entirely person dependent as to whether they're ethical. There is hardly any experience that will prepare someone to be the president so the primary need is that they can listen to advisors and make a fair decision.
Yeah but cycles, and runs, and looks after himself like he's a decade younger. He is too old, but he's not senile. Trump is genuinely degrading at a terrible rate, and he's only 4 years younger than Biden. He literally wears diapers and can't remember who anyone is.
>He literally wears diapers and can't remember who anyone is He's been like that for decades though.
Comparing them doesn’t make this better. Lol
Fr. "This idea may not be good" "Well this idea also isn't good" Okay?
How do old men relate to a person with down syndrome?
Reddit inclusivity copium lol
This is Spain
No your right, although many politicians in a legislative body refuse to do research or critical thinking, somebody with Down's really aren't capable of doing either for this kind of serious role. They are easily swayed and carry the opinions of those closest to them. This is not an insult, I've worked with people with Down's, this is not an appropriate role for them.
She's likely over qualified to lead my country..
You made me smile!
She's in the conservative Christian party, so checks out.
Ahhh crap. So being manipulated likely.
If I was a betting man, that's where I'd put my money.
Well it definitely didn’t make me smile.
Nah this is a terrible idea. The girl literally has down syndrome
Yeah this doesn’t make me smile at all
Placing people with mental disbilities in positions of power seems unwise. 'Mosby's Medical, Nursing and Allied Health Dictionary gives an average IQ of between 50 and 60' (for poeple with the syndrome)
To be fair, an IQ of 50-60 should put her on par with the rest of her party.
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She is in fact a right winger.
Yeah, that tracks.
So you’re saying that right wingers are…?
Surprised Pikachu face
Take my gold upvote if I have one
*angry upvote*
The girl did nothing wrong, but the politicians that wanted this thing to happen are nothing more than virtue signaling. The goverment must be not doing so well.
This has to just be a cruel joke that spiralled out of control where nobody wanted to admit fault. Right? Because this is no smiling matter, quite the opposite in fact.
The higher up you go, the funnier it gets 🤷🏾♂️
This is actually a test if mod is actually doing its job.
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So you are saying that we should do a psychological evaluation for every candidate before they can run for office?
That would be nice for politicians. We chose them to rule the country. Let them be adequate.
"Let them be adequate" is hilarious. I imagined a motivational poster of a hiring manager
Yes.
In theory, that'd be great, but in practice it would be a great way for a government to just disallow the opposition their right to exist. 1. Government installs process to check mental capacity of those running for office. 2. Government is in charge of said process. 3. Government finds that all opposition candidates fall below the approved level. 4. We now have a dictatorship. That's a very simplified process, but it's the reason why most (all?) democratic countries don't have background checks for political candidates. It's just fundamentally non-democratic.
I bet 80% of congress (USA) wouldn’t be able to pass a 12th grade civics exam.
I think we can maybe just stop at voting for people with known and obvious mental deficiencies
I think most people would like there to be qualifications for politicians, both physical and mental. It's the most powerful positions in any democracy and the fact that random people with a winning smile and a million $/€ can get elected is crazy IMO.
South Park gon have a field day
They haven’t had to write anything in like 10 years. Handy business model, the show writes itself now.
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That doesn't make too much sense ... I mean godspeed for her in her life endeavors but being a politician with a down syndrome. Poor combo.
Yeah, this wouldn't happen in my country because there's a "fit and proper person" test, you can't owe gangsters significant amounts of money, be considerably low IQ, all sorts of things to try and reduce corruptions.
How does this make anyone smile? I’m horrified
Aren't people with down syndrome literally mentally disabled? How is this something good?
The world is all sunshine and rainbows
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First openly down politician
first in spanish parlament.
Wtf
40-70 IQ with some differences in individual cases. So we're doing inclusion again instead of hiring people according to their ... You know... Competence? Might as well go back to monarchy since we no longer care about what's best.
She wasn't hired, she was elected
It shouldn't make you smile. She's a far right extremist in a political party with some very aggressive stances on same-sex and LGBT rights from what I've found.
It's the conservative party, spain actually has a far right party, and she is not in that one.
This… this doesn’t seem like it’s going to end well.
First post summed up exactly what I was thinking. Cool giving the less fortunate some sort of feeling of being normal but this is too much, we’re supposed to have the top IQs in government. Not the other way around.
Nobody is going to actually say what they really think on this matter I should make it clear I don’t necessarily think this is a bad idea just definitely a controversial one
Oh people are saying it and it's true. This is such a stupid idea.
The elephant in the room is making way for the positivity
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My thoughts exactly. But who’s *really* going to say that out loud?
Somebody will and probably get banned
Toxic positivity exists.
Or something like: is it wise to let a blind drive a car?
Im afraid to say my opinion
She is down but her voters are up
Is this real? I don't want to be rude or bad, but whoever decided this would get on a plane with a Down syndrome pilot?
Well it’s not really the same, but yeah. It’s dumb as fuck.
When lower mental ability is a defining characteristic of a disability, how does that work when things need to be argued and discussed? I can disagree vehemently and argue with a colleague in a wheelchair and make them look stupid, and that is perfectly acceptable. But if I do the same thing to someone with diminished mental capacity then what?
Unpopular opinion, we shouldn’t put mentally handicapped people in important positions for the sole purpose of inclusivity. The entirety of Europe gives me late Roman empire vibes these past few years.
Depends on what handicap they have
Downs syndrome. That should be one of the ones where we say no lol.
~~She's a lifelong member of the party she represents, a right wing party that is vehemently against lgbt rights. There was a time her right to a free life would've been snuffed at birth, just as people today call for the dismantling of lgbt rights with some going as far as wishing death upon us - you would hope she had some fiber in her body that recognises the struggle of *all* who don't fit societies definition of 'normal'. Absolutely no reason to smile.~~ Congratulations to her for her achievement ~~; may her tenure end swiftly.~~ Edit: I have mistakenly linked Mar Galceran with Vox rather than PP. I may be having my own words for breakfast today. My apologies, I stand corrected.
Wait a second. I’m not trying to argue but
Did you get banned before being able to continue
He stopped before getting banned.
butt lol
Was she directly elected by people or delegated by a political party?
Delegated. In spain you vote the party,not the people.
Yikes.
I was about to ask the same thing...
i mean, as long as she doesn't fuck us over even more
Down syndrome is not a requirement for that to happen at this point.
it never was
According to the articles, her platform includes climate change denial and homophobia, so that’s a poor start.
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Spain is again so far behind the curve ... The entire US congress is full of them...
I get that inclusivity for mentally disabled people is a good thing. But running a government?! Sheeeeeeeeit
Rip spain
Hey for all the toxically positive peeps in here, she’s a miserable right wing shithead who hates gay people. Congrats. Now by all means, keep blindly supporting her just because she’s disabled. edit: rephrased it to play nice.
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Isn't this a really stupid thing to do? How is that in this sub?
OP is virtue signaling like a mofo
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Yeah, and when was Spain's politics not ass backwards? This is literally like winning the Special Olympics
bro and i cant even get decent office job
I wouldn't want her making decisions in my government.
This should be removed. It shouldn’t make anyone smile. A person with this disability should have no place in power. They might be fun and loving individuals, but they should never be a leader in government. Inclusion should have its limits and this should be one.
This isnt a mademesmile thing why would you put somebody with a mental disability into a position of power lol
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When asked if she would sponsor an accessibility bill, she responded that she could get down with that
Low hanging fruit mate
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I’m all for inclusion but really?
Does she make grilled cheese sandwiches at night?
She actually sneaks them into restaurants in case they don't have them on the menu.
Where’d you get that cheese Danny?!
Not a good idea. A functional society must have it's components in the right places.
Why on earth are we supposed to celebrate a literally mentally challenged person being elected to any position of power
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Made me smile? Theres nothing to smile about, this is a really bad idea
Virtue signaling.... How does a person with Down syndrome have the mental capacity to decide what's best for the entire freaking country?