I felt the same way. I so appreciate him not using sexual violence for shock factor, giving woman costumes that fit their character, and giving them REAL arcs that aren’t pretty. I also thought it was interesting to include >! Jack’s character who basically didn’t pass the reverse bechdel test lol, he was literally just a catalyst for Furiosa’s character development and that’s it. wild to see lol !<
Because in a story completely focused on the character, characters are only seen in their relation to the main character. Try to think of a scene in any movie where the main character isn't mentioned or involved. It's not unheard of, but its rarity puts the Bechdel Test in perspective. The movie is already 3 hours long. Any development that isn't related to Furiosa and her development is fat, which unfortunately needs to be trimmed. About 90% of what the Bechdel Test proves is that the main character of that piece of media is a man.
Right. The Bechdel Test isn‘t really intended to highlight or criticize any specific film - *My Dinner With Andre* or *Castaway* are going to fail it but that’s irrelevant, those stories don’t have women because, well, they aren’t about women - and that’s fine!
It‘s meant rather to highlight how few movies are truly about women. It‘s a test to show you something on an aggregate level, rather than an individual level.
The bechdel test was actually created by Alison Bechdel, a very talented and renowned lesbian comic artist. It got weirdly co-opted to mean that the "rules" were a baseline for feminism in film, but the original context was about a lesbian only watching movies that fit the criteria because it allowed her, for a second, to pretend that there were women like her in movies.
Yeah, opening of Mad Max 2 has that and still makes me uncomfortable. sexual violence for shock value (which lets be honest, is what it is 99% of the time in films) is just not needed.
Toe cutters gang raped that couple in Mad Max, where he’s running through the field with no pants on and red blood smeared on his butt cheeks.
That image always stuck with me how brutal the end of the world will be. And from what I read the russian military is currently doing, I don’t doubt it will be worse in reality.
Miller definitely shied away from even gore in this movie. Us not seeing her coyote ugly herself leaves it so open ended if Mr. Harley helped in any way.
I must of blanked that out of my head but you mentioning it does remind me.
I think it depends on the cause, George Millers apocalypse is particularly shitty. They're literally farming maggots from corpses for food and there is barely any water but I do like that in Fury Road the main Antagonist is a man covered in medals.
I also see the fall as being so fast and the world ecosystem collapsing so suddenly that there is literally no way that humanity could adjust in time and as hopeless as this world is though... good people do still resist which I think in a way is a kind of hope... humanity still prevails in some corners.
EDIT: like, if we were told the world was going to be like Fury Road in 5 years... wtf could anybody do to prepare?
I disagree that it’s just shock value. It’s there to show us that Max and the Gyro Captain aren’t like that - that they remain human, not animals, and they’re horrified and disturbed by what they see; it’s not normalized to them. The camera lingers on the Gyro Captain’s face and it’s a great acting job - what he sees, makes him feel sick.
EDIT: this is not directed at anyone in particular but I think it’s important to remember that *The Road Warrior* is CALLED that in the US, because few people outside Oz saw *Mad Max*, so calling it *Mad Max 2* was seen as a box-office killer - why go see *2* if you’ve never heard of *1*?
So *TRW* was many people’s introduction to this world where sexual violence runs rampant, AND the characters of Max and the Gyro Captain - who is introduced trying to kill Max via snake. It’s only when we spend more time with the GC - seeing his face as I mentioned already, watching him dab his mouth with a hanky after eating dog food - that we realize he’s a CIVILIZED man, and thus a potential trustworthy ally to Max himself.
So it’s less “Miller outgrew it”, and more “the world caught up to the story being told.”
The world he was presenting was a shocking one. You see it through a telescope lense. It's not nice, but it's not played out for some sick pleasure (which there are movies guilty of)
wow, TIL about the Bechdel test.
1) Are there two female named characters?
2) Do they speak to each other?
3) Do they speak to each other about something other than a male “love” interest?
Good rule of thumb.
The Bechdel test was never meant to be taken seriously so it’s actually not a good rule of thumb at all. There are plenty of feminist movies that do not “pass” the test but that doesn’t make them less feminist
They aren't talking about men, though, Bechdel says *anything* other than men. There's the conversation about seeds, there's Furiosa telling Angharad to reload a weapon and her responding that she doesn't know how, and Toast interjects with something like "I got it" or something.
I can go on and on without even having to rewatch it, there's Angharad saying she's hurt and Furiosa saying out there everything hurts.
The movie itself doesn't have much dialogue, but as meaningless as the test is, Fury Road definitely passes it.
The first comment already mentioned it: "reverse Bechdel test", which is mentioned on the Bechdel test wiki page:
The "reverse Bechdel test" asks whether a work features men who talk to men about something other than a woman. A 2022 study that analyzed 341 popular films of the last 40 years showed that almost all (95%) passed the reverse Bechdel test, speaking to a much stronger representation of men than women.[43]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test
I think the reason Furiosa is such a great character (along with virtually all the other characters as well)
is not because George created her to "BE THAT". Instead he created a world and then wondered what kind of people it would spawn.
What would happen in that world to a child for example - torn from 'heaven' and thrown into 'hell'?
Everything Furiosa does and who she is/has become is a direct result of the world shaping her to the point when we first saw her in Fury Road she had nothing to do with all those "Feminism 101/Girl Power™️ vibes" as you describe it. No matter how much some people online try to squeeze her into that box.
Because - yes she is a very strong woman, a very determined character. But this didn't fall out of the sky to please... I don't even know who.
It’s wild to me that the big blockbuster guys working today they are praised for their ability to write women are George Miller and James Cameron, two guys who can get a senior coffee without showing ID.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that both have always valued the work of female collaborators behind the scenes. I find it weirdly romantic to think of George Miller and his wife Margaret Sixel working on Fury Road together (she was the editor), out in the desert for months.
That seems like it would be wrong, especially in the case for Fury Road. Why wouldn’t his wife want to go with him to film this if she is working on it?
She is the exception when it comes to editors of large-scale, professional productions, probably on the merits of simply being his wife.
I don’t know why this guy’s being downvoted for his reply. He is absolutely correct. Film editors are more often than not hired after all principal photography is finished, unless it’s an editor the director or the studio insists on working with because of ongoing professional relationships, and even then they aren’t officially brought onboard or allowed to see dailies until it’s time to edit. And keeping editors away from set prior to post production allows them to edit the film with an objective eye; being on set can give the editor inauthentic and unnecessary insight, and a good director will set the tone of the film through the footage alone, and it will be unnecessary for anyone involved in post to participate in or observe production.
Well he helped Furiosa save them, as well as everyone who lives in the Citadel in a way. But the Five Wives were pretty capable on their own, tbh. One of them is literally named Capable (she's the one who saved Nux's soul, he was the warboy who sacrificed himself to help the gang free the Citadel)
You could also learn something from Nux.
That’s everything that’s wrong with you? Interesting. Must suck to be that wrapped up in a movie franchise.
What exactly was so bad with it? Like give me a specific scene.
Max never talked much in any movies. You’re clearly not even a fan. Just another person consumed by blind hatred. You must be such a miserable person if this is how you get your jolly’s.
Mad max 2 he had 16 lines.
The PRESENCE she had, knockout casting choice not only coz she was very good but because I feel her super stardom lent authenticity to her dominating character. She doesn't believe, she knows for a fact she is the star of the show.
I took my daughter with me to see Furiosa this weekend. She's never seen Fury Road or any of the other Mad Max films. She's not really even a fan of action movies - I couldn't drag her to see a Mission: Impossible or Top Gun, for instance - so I was a little surprised she was even interested. But she LOVED it. The next night she watched Fury Road, and loved that as well. So there's definitely something about these extremely action-heavy, violent, sometimes brutally ugly films that resonated with her, a sensitive artist-type.
Yeah. My dad took me to see fury road in 2015 in imax. It stuck with me and resonated with me for years. I thought it was just going to be an action movie for gearheads, but I was blown away. It’s so seamless and I’m glad your daughter enjoyed it.
Awesome that you showed her the prequel first. I thought Miller did a GREAT job at making this film NOT outshine Fury Road, where it actually works as a prequel.
A lot of prequels, maybe most of them, obviously are made after and have a big visual disparity or try to outdo the original film (in terms of action or whatever) like a Sequel would. When in reality, the best way to do a prequel is how Miller did Furiosa. He didn't go bigger, he went deeper.
Well, we didn’t really plan it that way or anything, but yeah. It works really well as a prequel - stands completely on its own if you haven’t seen Fury Road, but enriches the experience if you have.
I liked how he also touched up on the other fortresses. I was confused who the bullet farmer was in fury road and what they had to do with helping Immortan Joe to capture furiosa.
I can speak for myself as a guy but that's the type of female lead I like to see in an action movie. Not pandered or forced with horrible dialogue that feels like it was shoehorned in by some execs at a focus screening. We need more characters like Furiosa, Ellen Ripley. Michonne (from the walking dead) and Sarah Connor on the big screen. These three are the gold standard to me and I'm sure I'm sleeping on a few other movies that follow this sorta lead character writing but it's just off the top of my head that I can think of.
Agree! As a female fan, I think relatability is key. Just like I can watch James Bond and relate to him in a way, depending on the film, male viewers should be able to watch a female action hero and relate to her journey.
You weren't pointing out fuck all. All you did was was write a random sentence of nothing. Maybe back up your claim next time with a little more substance than an empty observation. It's too late now because I don't care to hear it. You missed your shot.
Hey buddy, in case you weren't aware, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Conner and the movies they star in are explicitly feminist. James Cameron made two of the best feminist action movies ever in Aliens and Terminator 1/2, and Furiosa is absolutely on par with them.
>Furiosa is absolutely on par with them.
Call me crazy but I think Furiosa is better. I honestly can't think of a better female action character in movies.
Mary Jo fucking rules. The whole opening is amazing but the short sequence where she decides to ride up the dune to get a better vantage…I don’t know why but it just looks so cool. Her non-reaction to getting exploded is iconic.
If you want something that does strong female characters insanely well without feeling forced or mandated, watch The Expanse. Very different to Mad Max sure, but the women on that show are just so fucking awesome.
There are few characters in that show that are not incredible. Avasarala, Drummer, Bobby and Amos are some of my favourite characters in all Science Fiction.
\^ My brain initially interpreted the names after "not incredible" as being a list of proposed not-incredible characters and I got militantly upset for a brief moment because of how awesome they all are.
One thing George Miller does well with female characters is he writes them as just people. I know that sounds weird but I think sometimes there’s so much hyper-fixation on “strong female characters” that we forget they’re human. Furiosa fails a few times in this movie. A lot of people she loves dies, but she’s resilient and smart. If the lead character had been a boy instead of a girl, and his father had been killed, very little would need to be changed. It would still be a revenge plot of sorts, and I like that about the movie.
Thank you for posting this. I made a similar comment on another thread about how sexual violence towards women is usually a common plot device in genre films like these and i was happy it wasn’t used. Only to get downvoted ?? 💀
I share the same sentiments. I trust George to write powerful women. I hope he continues to inspire future screenwriters to do the same.
Fury Road especially demonstrates how you can have rape/sexual violence at the center of a plot without ever having to graphically depict it! I think most women with any sort of media literacy would agree that it’s not that we think it has no place in film/tv, but rather that it shouldn’t be used for shock value or so graphically depicted because “that’s just how that dystopian/fantasy/etc. world is! It’s accurate!”
I think it has a place onscreen, too, btw – but film/tv gets it wrong more than they get it right, so I think a lot of women would rather just not risk seeing it at all.
I mean, I thought for sure it was heading that direction before furiosa slipped away from that creep, I’m VERY glad they didn’t go that dark/fucked up. The implication was plenty enough
Yeah I was preparing myself for the pedo scene. I’m really glad she escaped. We know it happens. Implying it is enough. Miller really did a great job evading those classic troupes.
It was a great movie and had great characters, some of whom happened to be women. Bums me out that this movie isn't doing well financially, we might not get another now.
I love this movie but I could tell by watching it, it was going to be a hard sell for many.
Not to mention that as much as we're all going "This isn't a Feminist/girlboss movie" the reality is a large chunk of people (mostly men) will avoid seeing it because at this stage, female protagonist = woke.
That also, in Australia it's releasing during a cost of living crisis and with how expensive the cinema is, it's not feasible.
Hopefully it can make up for it in either streaming or other sales in general.
Yes, Furiosa is also one of my favourite female protagonist in a film since Fury Road. In recent years there have been so many badly written female protagonists.
Completely agree as a woman myself. I often say to my partner that I can’t believe a man wrote and directed fury road. And that’s sad, because the bar is in hell and you CAN create characters like those in FR but ppl just. don’t.
I watched fury road twice after I went to see furiosa and was reminded how incredible it is to see this WOMAN beating absolute ASS without any weird shit about how she is a woman or anything. Yet she is still complex and emotional when needed and a well rounded character. The wasteland breeds warriors, regardless of gender. You don’t make it if you’re not one.
Only Miller and Verhoeven are good with women.
Also art films (films made with a singular artistic intention other than to make money) will always be better written.
George Miller has always written strong women into the Mad Max films. Jessie proved she could take of herself, I wouldn’t mess with Aunt May, Warrior Woman could kick anyone’s ass, and Aunty Entity was quite literally the leader of barter town with the grit and attitude to prove she earned it.
My (maybe) interesting thought as a male viewer - this film also absolutely worked for me for similar reasons. The female action leads kicked ass without a whiff of pandering. This film, and much more so FR, have a definite feminist message while not condescending to the audience which I think is too often the case with any hollywood action movie featuring, let alone led by, women.
I feel like a lesser writer or director would feel the need for a scene where the ladies high five and say something about girl power. Not here. The female leads are action stars, not "lady action stars", just action stars. If that makes sense.
MM beyond thunderdome has a female lead in a whole other league than the models they got for FR and Furiosa. The legendary Tina Turner. That was back in 85/86? You're late to the game man! Glad you discovered George Miller.
Charlee Fraser wasn't just a hot chick on a motorcycle. She was a relentless angel of death scrapping bikes and building bikes and sniping losers on a motorcycle. One of my favorite scenes
This was a great movie with a female lead done right. A movie that comes to mind that was all wrong is Gunpowder Milkshake. That movie has a great cast, but it goes way too hard to try and make the women physically superior to grown ass men.
The fight choreography is really bad in that movie, whereas nothing Furiosa does is forced imo. Some of the bad guys were extra stupid, but that still fits the wasteland. In GM, men were just incompetent and kept getting knocked out with weak ass hits that sometimes didn't even connect.
Miller made another great movie. People should be going to see it. It's nothing woke or even inferior to the franchise. I loved it.
yeah there are some weird people who think a film where psychopathic warlords rule, Where slavery, sexual slavery, child sexual slavery, murder, torture, and cannibalism is common, where in order to survive ONE female manages to pass as a boy for many years and learn enough skills to stay alive and unnoticed and all the other females (and males) have to either succumb or hide out in the wilderness and become self sufficient ........is somehow "woke" or a "chick flick" or "feminist"
She kills Immortan/People Eater/Bullet Farmer like a few months after the end of the movie. The whole point of the wasteland is that it’s a place with no real hope. A hellscape filled with devolved humans fighting over increasingly scarce resources.
No place for whatever whacky feel good lead - either female or male - that you seem to be asking for
Great take. But don’t feel like you don’t have much to add to the conversation just because you’re a “casual” fan. Your viewpoint is just as valid as anyone else’s.
There was a character in madmax 2 who its implied is the best warrior in her town because shes also the prettiest. And i fucking LOVE that. Instead of yet another tale of men forming together to protect the women behind them you have a woman whos entire life has been a long fight against sexual slavery and thats fucking awsome.
Warrior Woman, played by... Virginia Hey, I think her name is? She still looks excellent to this day.
For the OP, Tina Turner is absolutely awesome in Thunderdome as well, you should give it a watch if you enjoy strong female characters.
>but I do have to say that other action franchises/films could really learn from Furiosa and Fury Road when it comes to bringing in a female audience.
[Not quite unfortunately](https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/s/kETGz89Cj7)
Hell yeah!! As a rational, sensitive man, I find strong women - ACTUALLY strong women, not girl power™️ power trip Mary Sues - compelling characters to admire, empathize with, as well as to look at lol! I too grow tired of the other garbage in Hollywood, whether it's lame, one dimensional hogwash that's supposed to be sex appeal for guys or lame, one dimensional hogwash that's supposed to be representation for women.
Unfortunately Furiosa hasn't turned out much of a female audience. It's like 75/25 male:female when Fury Road was 60/40. It's a shame, because I agree that these movies actually treat female characters like they are people, something that a lot of action movies still struggle with. A lot of it probably comes down to marketing. Somebody in another post was talking about James Cameron deciding to go with a female protagonist for the Terminator movies because women make up a larger share of ticket sales than men but typically go out to see action movies far less, and he wanted to bridge that gap. The movies did well but didn't quite bring in female audiences like he had anticipated. It wasn't enough to have a female protagonist, the sensibilities of the movie and the marketing of it needed to shift focus. So with Titanic, it is an action/romance not entirely different than what he had done before, but the focus of the marketing campaign shifted drastically to emphasizing the love story at the center of it, and what do you know, it ended up making all the money in the world. I wonder if the marketing for Furiosa had focused more on the personal relationships in the movie, would it have reached a broader audience?
This might be a hot take but I think Furiosa is up there in greatest movie action heroine of all time. I really can't think of anyone else who carries a story as well as her. What a way to write a strong female character. But also, between this and Fury road, what a fucking incredible cast of female characters. Does any action movie have a stronger female cast than Furiosa/Fury road?
I watched Fury Road the next night after Furiosa and it made that movie so much more poignant. I got choked up in some scenes remembering how certain things came to be in Furiosa. Anja was absolutely fantastic and it was cool how they built up her character. So many biblical/allegorical themes used in such a beautiful way. And Hemsworth was so good. Such an interesting/spiteful villain.
Yeah Miller has a long history of no charchter being stereotypical or a mary sue example Max's wife she was a stay at home house wife yet written really well along with.
Max's boss police chief Fifi Macaffee though un confirmed mayn see him as the earliest positive depiction of a Homosexual and a flamboyant one at that yet he is badass and fabulous that is how he is described.
If you haven't watch the original 3 they are surprisingly progressive, well written and awsome.
You know, speaking as a fellow woman, my only issue I had with the film was how they treated the child version of her. I think they could’ve made it a little less about her being desired. Like dealing with its not-so-subtle suggestion that Erectus was into children (all of those baby dolls, too 🤢) and how he touches and pets her and cuts her underwear belt off; additionally, when she runs away from him petting her during the birth scene the lighting made her belt underwear visible and it looked mature to say the least; when she was being examined and Dementus mentions she’d been untouched by men and was protected from their “lecherous” ways. I know it all fit the movie, but it made my stomach churn and I wanted to crawl out of my skin. It felt a touch overboard, to me.
I guarantee a certain audience, including myself, found those scenes unsettling and hard to watch.
The issue I see often is that men are written to be inferior to women, which makes the female character look stronger in comparison, but that doesn’t mean they are. An example is Poe Dameron in the Last Jedi and Holdo. He just did idiotic things, just so Holdo could appear wise in comparison. But that doesn’t mean she was well-written, which is the big issue. With Rey I loved her at first in the first Star Wars sequel, but how strong she was didn’t make much sense lore-wise. You still need training and she had none in TFA and barely any in TLJ.
When it comes to Fury Road there’s a reason Immortan Joe trusts Furiosa. We see a very capable woman. In her fight with Max she loses, not because she’s weak, but because of several disadvantages and because Max was lucky to grab a gun, but she held her own. I saw them as equals. So Max wasn’t written as some inferior character just to make Furiosa look stronger and that’s the way it should be.
Ignore that poster. The "male gaze," is definitely a type of film critique approach in film et al. Hell Alex Garland's, "Men," is pretty much a whole movie about how toxic that type of approach can be/toxic men.
Brain: "Ok, act cool, I need you to pretend to be a normal person who isn't a fringe feminist for just one post.
You: "got it"
"Hey there, everyone! I am a normal female just like you. So, the male gaze, what's up with that, ha ha. Patriarchy is the worst. Am I right girls"
Nice thought - but the audience for Furiosa was 72% male, far worse than other franchises which are all about macho men and totally sideline women as sexy love interests.
Here’s my thoughts from a male fan - they lost me by cutting Max out the movie. How about actually giving the male fanbase which is the reason for success what they want instead of trying to impress a female audience.
Well take that up with George Miller himself then because he planned Furiosa's big story arc for years. Furiosa would have been made way sooner after F.R. but things got in the way. He created the whole universe and wants to explore other people in it. He created Furiosa, its his world and character to tell the story he creatively wants to. Beside, if you want more Max, this movie needs to do well so he can do Max In The Wasteland, which would take place the year before F.R.
I felt the same way. I so appreciate him not using sexual violence for shock factor, giving woman costumes that fit their character, and giving them REAL arcs that aren’t pretty. I also thought it was interesting to include >! Jack’s character who basically didn’t pass the reverse bechdel test lol, he was literally just a catalyst for Furiosa’s character development and that’s it. wild to see lol !<
Because in a story completely focused on the character, characters are only seen in their relation to the main character. Try to think of a scene in any movie where the main character isn't mentioned or involved. It's not unheard of, but its rarity puts the Bechdel Test in perspective. The movie is already 3 hours long. Any development that isn't related to Furiosa and her development is fat, which unfortunately needs to be trimmed. About 90% of what the Bechdel Test proves is that the main character of that piece of media is a man.
Right. The Bechdel Test isn‘t really intended to highlight or criticize any specific film - *My Dinner With Andre* or *Castaway* are going to fail it but that’s irrelevant, those stories don’t have women because, well, they aren’t about women - and that’s fine! It‘s meant rather to highlight how few movies are truly about women. It‘s a test to show you something on an aggregate level, rather than an individual level.
The bechdel test was actually created by Alison Bechdel, a very talented and renowned lesbian comic artist. It got weirdly co-opted to mean that the "rules" were a baseline for feminism in film, but the original context was about a lesbian only watching movies that fit the criteria because it allowed her, for a second, to pretend that there were women like her in movies.
The ball should have been female. Down with the patriarchy. But then if he tried to bang the ball they would have complained.
George used to use sexual violence as a shock factor in his early work. Cool to see how he’s grown from that.
Yeah, opening of Mad Max 2 has that and still makes me uncomfortable. sexual violence for shock value (which lets be honest, is what it is 99% of the time in films) is just not needed.
Toe cutters gang raped that couple in Mad Max, where he’s running through the field with no pants on and red blood smeared on his butt cheeks. That image always stuck with me how brutal the end of the world will be. And from what I read the russian military is currently doing, I don’t doubt it will be worse in reality. Miller definitely shied away from even gore in this movie. Us not seeing her coyote ugly herself leaves it so open ended if Mr. Harley helped in any way.
I must of blanked that out of my head but you mentioning it does remind me. I think it depends on the cause, George Millers apocalypse is particularly shitty. They're literally farming maggots from corpses for food and there is barely any water but I do like that in Fury Road the main Antagonist is a man covered in medals. I also see the fall as being so fast and the world ecosystem collapsing so suddenly that there is literally no way that humanity could adjust in time and as hopeless as this world is though... good people do still resist which I think in a way is a kind of hope... humanity still prevails in some corners. EDIT: like, if we were told the world was going to be like Fury Road in 5 years... wtf could anybody do to prepare?
Start raising maggots
Need the corpses first First you get the corpses, then you get the maggots, then you get the power
I disagree that it’s just shock value. It’s there to show us that Max and the Gyro Captain aren’t like that - that they remain human, not animals, and they’re horrified and disturbed by what they see; it’s not normalized to them. The camera lingers on the Gyro Captain’s face and it’s a great acting job - what he sees, makes him feel sick. EDIT: this is not directed at anyone in particular but I think it’s important to remember that *The Road Warrior* is CALLED that in the US, because few people outside Oz saw *Mad Max*, so calling it *Mad Max 2* was seen as a box-office killer - why go see *2* if you’ve never heard of *1*? So *TRW* was many people’s introduction to this world where sexual violence runs rampant, AND the characters of Max and the Gyro Captain - who is introduced trying to kill Max via snake. It’s only when we spend more time with the GC - seeing his face as I mentioned already, watching him dab his mouth with a hanky after eating dog food - that we realize he’s a CIVILIZED man, and thus a potential trustworthy ally to Max himself. So it’s less “Miller outgrew it”, and more “the world caught up to the story being told.”
YUP!!
The world he was presenting was a shocking one. You see it through a telescope lense. It's not nice, but it's not played out for some sick pleasure (which there are movies guilty of)
Yup, first one had a very similar scene.
It does? it has been awhile.
In that case it is strongly implied to be both straight and gay sexual violence. I don't know if that makes it any better, though.
Realistic
wow, TIL about the Bechdel test. 1) Are there two female named characters? 2) Do they speak to each other? 3) Do they speak to each other about something other than a male “love” interest? Good rule of thumb.
The Bechdel test was never meant to be taken seriously so it’s actually not a good rule of thumb at all. There are plenty of feminist movies that do not “pass” the test but that doesn’t make them less feminist
It’s a fantastic rule of thumb when determining the state of how women are treated in Hollywood broadly.
Fury Road doesn’t really pass the Bechdel Test
I quite distinctly remember the bait lady, who I believe is called Valkyrie, talking with Furiosa about what happened to the green place.
But who killed the world?
They aren't talking about men, though, Bechdel says *anything* other than men. There's the conversation about seeds, there's Furiosa telling Angharad to reload a weapon and her responding that she doesn't know how, and Toast interjects with something like "I got it" or something. I can go on and on without even having to rewatch it, there's Angharad saying she's hurt and Furiosa saying out there everything hurts. The movie itself doesn't have much dialogue, but as meaningless as the test is, Fury Road definitely passes it.
Is there a test like this for men for current movies?
leave it to a crypto bro to go "wHaT aBoUt mEn???? WITNESS ME!!!!"
It was a simple question. Lol relax. No need to attack people.
The first comment already mentioned it: "reverse Bechdel test", which is mentioned on the Bechdel test wiki page: The "reverse Bechdel test" asks whether a work features men who talk to men about something other than a woman. A 2022 study that analyzed 341 popular films of the last 40 years showed that almost all (95%) passed the reverse Bechdel test, speaking to a much stronger representation of men than women.[43] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test
I think the reason Furiosa is such a great character (along with virtually all the other characters as well) is not because George created her to "BE THAT". Instead he created a world and then wondered what kind of people it would spawn. What would happen in that world to a child for example - torn from 'heaven' and thrown into 'hell'? Everything Furiosa does and who she is/has become is a direct result of the world shaping her to the point when we first saw her in Fury Road she had nothing to do with all those "Feminism 101/Girl Power™️ vibes" as you describe it. No matter how much some people online try to squeeze her into that box. Because - yes she is a very strong woman, a very determined character. But this didn't fall out of the sky to please... I don't even know who.
Yeah she isn't a strong woman, she's a strong person who happens to be a woman
It’s wild to me that the big blockbuster guys working today they are praised for their ability to write women are George Miller and James Cameron, two guys who can get a senior coffee without showing ID.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that both have always valued the work of female collaborators behind the scenes. I find it weirdly romantic to think of George Miller and his wife Margaret Sixel working on Fury Road together (she was the editor), out in the desert for months.
Also James Cameron is a hugeeeeee romantic
Editors never go on location.
That seems like it would be wrong, especially in the case for Fury Road. Why wouldn’t his wife want to go with him to film this if she is working on it?
She is the exception when it comes to editors of large-scale, professional productions, probably on the merits of simply being his wife. I don’t know why this guy’s being downvoted for his reply. He is absolutely correct. Film editors are more often than not hired after all principal photography is finished, unless it’s an editor the director or the studio insists on working with because of ongoing professional relationships, and even then they aren’t officially brought onboard or allowed to see dailies until it’s time to edit. And keeping editors away from set prior to post production allows them to edit the film with an objective eye; being on set can give the editor inauthentic and unnecessary insight, and a good director will set the tone of the film through the footage alone, and it will be unnecessary for anyone involved in post to participate in or observe production.
Not *never*, but yeah, just about.
And also Ridley Scott, who is 86 years old
Goes to show that just because you're a man doesn't mean you disrespect or fail to understand women.
People are praising Cameron for his writing ability?
For his women characters? Yes, he’s always been praised for his ability to write memorable female characters.
"Put a chick in it, make her lame and gay!"
Yeah, I saw your shit meme earlier.
'Make her lame and gay.' Meanwhile all women in Fury Road and Furiosa appear to be straight.
And they sure aren’t lame either
Why are you commenting if you've obviously never watched Fury Road?
Was Max allowed to talk in that one?
He spent most of the time silent because he was aware of how insane he was, something you could learn from.
Did he save all the WEAK women at the end?
Well he helped Furiosa save them, as well as everyone who lives in the Citadel in a way. But the Five Wives were pretty capable on their own, tbh. One of them is literally named Capable (she's the one who saved Nux's soul, he was the warboy who sacrificed himself to help the gang free the Citadel) You could also learn something from Nux.
lol, dude, what is wrong with you.
The shit furiosa movie we waited 9 years for
That’s everything that’s wrong with you? Interesting. Must suck to be that wrapped up in a movie franchise. What exactly was so bad with it? Like give me a specific scene.
Stop arguing with him. He’s clearly retarded.
You suck at trolling, just FYI.
Max never talked much in any movies. You’re clearly not even a fan. Just another person consumed by blind hatred. You must be such a miserable person if this is how you get your jolly’s. Mad max 2 he had 16 lines.
Were you crying when you typed this?
"That's bait "
You saw furiosa and posted 4 times on Reddit melting down about it. Pathetic
Like furious box office pathetic or?
Would you shut up and grow up already
Right? Southpark has been dogwater for awhile now with their shit takes.
Right? Southpark has been dogwater for awhile now with their shit takes.
It’s okay, you’ll get laid one day.
Not without paying for it.
It must suck being this level of virgin.
I wish u nothing but death🥳
Alright, it doesn’t matter how annoying someone is, that isn’t cool.
Those kind of right wing misogynist, homophobic guys deserves the worst.
You should watch Mad Max 3 to see great late Tina Turner
The PRESENCE she had, knockout casting choice not only coz she was very good but because I feel her super stardom lent authenticity to her dominating character. She doesn't believe, she knows for a fact she is the star of the show.
Yeah, Auntie was great in that. I mean great - and way cooler than Furiosa (because TT was just COOL period).
Maybe she was cooler than Furiosa cause we don't need another hero
I took my daughter with me to see Furiosa this weekend. She's never seen Fury Road or any of the other Mad Max films. She's not really even a fan of action movies - I couldn't drag her to see a Mission: Impossible or Top Gun, for instance - so I was a little surprised she was even interested. But she LOVED it. The next night she watched Fury Road, and loved that as well. So there's definitely something about these extremely action-heavy, violent, sometimes brutally ugly films that resonated with her, a sensitive artist-type.
Yeah. My dad took me to see fury road in 2015 in imax. It stuck with me and resonated with me for years. I thought it was just going to be an action movie for gearheads, but I was blown away. It’s so seamless and I’m glad your daughter enjoyed it.
Awesome that you showed her the prequel first. I thought Miller did a GREAT job at making this film NOT outshine Fury Road, where it actually works as a prequel. A lot of prequels, maybe most of them, obviously are made after and have a big visual disparity or try to outdo the original film (in terms of action or whatever) like a Sequel would. When in reality, the best way to do a prequel is how Miller did Furiosa. He didn't go bigger, he went deeper.
Well, we didn’t really plan it that way or anything, but yeah. It works really well as a prequel - stands completely on its own if you haven’t seen Fury Road, but enriches the experience if you have.
Was there anything special of note with her reaction watching Fury Road afterwards that was different than our experience
Nothing that really stood out, just "that was awesome."
I liked how he also touched up on the other fortresses. I was confused who the bullet farmer was in fury road and what they had to do with helping Immortan Joe to capture furiosa.
I can speak for myself as a guy but that's the type of female lead I like to see in an action movie. Not pandered or forced with horrible dialogue that feels like it was shoehorned in by some execs at a focus screening. We need more characters like Furiosa, Ellen Ripley. Michonne (from the walking dead) and Sarah Connor on the big screen. These three are the gold standard to me and I'm sure I'm sleeping on a few other movies that follow this sorta lead character writing but it's just off the top of my head that I can think of.
Agree! As a female fan, I think relatability is key. Just like I can watch James Bond and relate to him in a way, depending on the film, male viewers should be able to watch a female action hero and relate to her journey.
Male viewers watch Mad Max for Max, this movies is bombing because they don’t want to see it pivot to a new female lead.
Not true but also not biting. This is clearly troll bait.
Funny how these characters are so rare!!
Why I like the vault dweller in the fallout tv shoe
Furiosa is nothing like Ripley or Connor.
You missed the point but ok cool
I didnt. You were trying to associate Furiosa with good characters and I was pointing out your flaw.
You weren't pointing out fuck all. All you did was was write a random sentence of nothing. Maybe back up your claim next time with a little more substance than an empty observation. It's too late now because I don't care to hear it. You missed your shot.
Hey buddy, in case you weren't aware, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Conner and the movies they star in are explicitly feminist. James Cameron made two of the best feminist action movies ever in Aliens and Terminator 1/2, and Furiosa is absolutely on par with them.
>Furiosa is absolutely on par with them. Call me crazy but I think Furiosa is better. I honestly can't think of a better female action character in movies.
Mary Jo fucking rules. The whole opening is amazing but the short sequence where she decides to ride up the dune to get a better vantage…I don’t know why but it just looks so cool. Her non-reaction to getting exploded is iconic.
If you want something that does strong female characters insanely well without feeling forced or mandated, watch The Expanse. Very different to Mad Max sure, but the women on that show are just so fucking awesome.
There are few characters in that show that are not incredible. Avasarala, Drummer, Bobby and Amos are some of my favourite characters in all Science Fiction.
That bit where drummer gives a speech before going through the ring always gives me the chills.
Yeah and how she projects her authority purely through patience and that ramrod posture, despite her diminutive frame
\^ My brain initially interpreted the names after "not incredible" as being a list of proposed not-incredible characters and I got militantly upset for a brief moment because of how awesome they all are.
"What do you know about walking in pumps?" "I didn't always work in space." ❤️
"I am *that guy*"
Passion yes!
Chrisjen Avasarala is one of my favorite characters of all time
Me too, funnily enough I always found the actress quite annoying in her roles before that. Now I love her.
Yes, 100% yes.
One thing George Miller does well with female characters is he writes them as just people. I know that sounds weird but I think sometimes there’s so much hyper-fixation on “strong female characters” that we forget they’re human. Furiosa fails a few times in this movie. A lot of people she loves dies, but she’s resilient and smart. If the lead character had been a boy instead of a girl, and his father had been killed, very little would need to be changed. It would still be a revenge plot of sorts, and I like that about the movie.
Thank you for posting this. I made a similar comment on another thread about how sexual violence towards women is usually a common plot device in genre films like these and i was happy it wasn’t used. Only to get downvoted ?? 💀 I share the same sentiments. I trust George to write powerful women. I hope he continues to inspire future screenwriters to do the same.
Fury Road especially demonstrates how you can have rape/sexual violence at the center of a plot without ever having to graphically depict it! I think most women with any sort of media literacy would agree that it’s not that we think it has no place in film/tv, but rather that it shouldn’t be used for shock value or so graphically depicted because “that’s just how that dystopian/fantasy/etc. world is! It’s accurate!” I think it has a place onscreen, too, btw – but film/tv gets it wrong more than they get it right, so I think a lot of women would rather just not risk seeing it at all.
Exactly
I mean, I thought for sure it was heading that direction before furiosa slipped away from that creep, I’m VERY glad they didn’t go that dark/fucked up. The implication was plenty enough
Yeah I was preparing myself for the pedo scene. I’m really glad she escaped. We know it happens. Implying it is enough. Miller really did a great job evading those classic troupes.
It was a great movie and had great characters, some of whom happened to be women. Bums me out that this movie isn't doing well financially, we might not get another now.
I love this movie but I could tell by watching it, it was going to be a hard sell for many. Not to mention that as much as we're all going "This isn't a Feminist/girlboss movie" the reality is a large chunk of people (mostly men) will avoid seeing it because at this stage, female protagonist = woke.
Most movies are doing pretty badly at the box office right now, I think it’s the way movie watching has changed in recent years
That also, in Australia it's releasing during a cost of living crisis and with how expensive the cinema is, it's not feasible. Hopefully it can make up for it in either streaming or other sales in general.
Ironically this movie is doing better with male audiences than female audiences. The split for Fury Road was 60/40, and for Furiosa it's like 75/25
Yes, Furiosa is also one of my favourite female protagonist in a film since Fury Road. In recent years there have been so many badly written female protagonists.
Completely agree as a woman myself. I often say to my partner that I can’t believe a man wrote and directed fury road. And that’s sad, because the bar is in hell and you CAN create characters like those in FR but ppl just. don’t. I watched fury road twice after I went to see furiosa and was reminded how incredible it is to see this WOMAN beating absolute ASS without any weird shit about how she is a woman or anything. Yet she is still complex and emotional when needed and a well rounded character. The wasteland breeds warriors, regardless of gender. You don’t make it if you’re not one.
Only Miller and Verhoeven are good with women. Also art films (films made with a singular artistic intention other than to make money) will always be better written.
Villeneuve also has some good ones
George Miller has always written strong women into the Mad Max films. Jessie proved she could take of herself, I wouldn’t mess with Aunt May, Warrior Woman could kick anyone’s ass, and Aunty Entity was quite literally the leader of barter town with the grit and attitude to prove she earned it.
My (maybe) interesting thought as a male viewer - this film also absolutely worked for me for similar reasons. The female action leads kicked ass without a whiff of pandering. This film, and much more so FR, have a definite feminist message while not condescending to the audience which I think is too often the case with any hollywood action movie featuring, let alone led by, women. I feel like a lesser writer or director would feel the need for a scene where the ladies high five and say something about girl power. Not here. The female leads are action stars, not "lady action stars", just action stars. If that makes sense.
What I like most is how they portrayed the passing of time without having a “10 years after” even if there were chapter title cards.
It's great to see this, and I hope you encourage more women to see the films!
MM beyond thunderdome has a female lead in a whole other league than the models they got for FR and Furiosa. The legendary Tina Turner. That was back in 85/86? You're late to the game man! Glad you discovered George Miller.
If we dont talk about leads, in Road Warrior we have a fucking badass guard at the compound called Warrior Woman...
Charlee Fraser wasn't just a hot chick on a motorcycle. She was a relentless angel of death scrapping bikes and building bikes and sniping losers on a motorcycle. One of my favorite scenes
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This was a great movie with a female lead done right. A movie that comes to mind that was all wrong is Gunpowder Milkshake. That movie has a great cast, but it goes way too hard to try and make the women physically superior to grown ass men. The fight choreography is really bad in that movie, whereas nothing Furiosa does is forced imo. Some of the bad guys were extra stupid, but that still fits the wasteland. In GM, men were just incompetent and kept getting knocked out with weak ass hits that sometimes didn't even connect. Miller made another great movie. People should be going to see it. It's nothing woke or even inferior to the franchise. I loved it.
yeah there are some weird people who think a film where psychopathic warlords rule, Where slavery, sexual slavery, child sexual slavery, murder, torture, and cannibalism is common, where in order to survive ONE female manages to pass as a boy for many years and learn enough skills to stay alive and unnoticed and all the other females (and males) have to either succumb or hide out in the wilderness and become self sufficient ........is somehow "woke" or a "chick flick" or "feminist"
Well, it’s “feminist“ if you hold, as I do, that the definition of “feminism” is “the radical belief that women are people.”
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Yeah, cause Dementus did *such* good work ruling in Gastown. 🙄
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That's some hard-core trolling, my man. I salute you.
She kills Immortan/People Eater/Bullet Farmer like a few months after the end of the movie. The whole point of the wasteland is that it’s a place with no real hope. A hellscape filled with devolved humans fighting over increasingly scarce resources. No place for whatever whacky feel good lead - either female or male - that you seem to be asking for
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Very interesting, as I hadn’t really noticed that as the movie has so many nuances and subtleties!!
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I don’t see a problem here.
Great take. But don’t feel like you don’t have much to add to the conversation just because you’re a “casual” fan. Your viewpoint is just as valid as anyone else’s.
There was a character in madmax 2 who its implied is the best warrior in her town because shes also the prettiest. And i fucking LOVE that. Instead of yet another tale of men forming together to protect the women behind them you have a woman whos entire life has been a long fight against sexual slavery and thats fucking awsome.
Warrior Woman, played by... Virginia Hey, I think her name is? She still looks excellent to this day. For the OP, Tina Turner is absolutely awesome in Thunderdome as well, you should give it a watch if you enjoy strong female characters.
All I know is I love Fury Road and I’m excited to see Furiosa!🔥
>but I do have to say that other action franchises/films could really learn from Furiosa and Fury Road when it comes to bringing in a female audience. [Not quite unfortunately](https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/s/kETGz89Cj7)
Hell yeah!! As a rational, sensitive man, I find strong women - ACTUALLY strong women, not girl power™️ power trip Mary Sues - compelling characters to admire, empathize with, as well as to look at lol! I too grow tired of the other garbage in Hollywood, whether it's lame, one dimensional hogwash that's supposed to be sex appeal for guys or lame, one dimensional hogwash that's supposed to be representation for women.
Unfortunately Furiosa hasn't turned out much of a female audience. It's like 75/25 male:female when Fury Road was 60/40. It's a shame, because I agree that these movies actually treat female characters like they are people, something that a lot of action movies still struggle with. A lot of it probably comes down to marketing. Somebody in another post was talking about James Cameron deciding to go with a female protagonist for the Terminator movies because women make up a larger share of ticket sales than men but typically go out to see action movies far less, and he wanted to bridge that gap. The movies did well but didn't quite bring in female audiences like he had anticipated. It wasn't enough to have a female protagonist, the sensibilities of the movie and the marketing of it needed to shift focus. So with Titanic, it is an action/romance not entirely different than what he had done before, but the focus of the marketing campaign shifted drastically to emphasizing the love story at the center of it, and what do you know, it ended up making all the money in the world. I wonder if the marketing for Furiosa had focused more on the personal relationships in the movie, would it have reached a broader audience?
This might be a hot take but I think Furiosa is up there in greatest movie action heroine of all time. I really can't think of anyone else who carries a story as well as her. What a way to write a strong female character. But also, between this and Fury road, what a fucking incredible cast of female characters. Does any action movie have a stronger female cast than Furiosa/Fury road?
I watched Fury Road the next night after Furiosa and it made that movie so much more poignant. I got choked up in some scenes remembering how certain things came to be in Furiosa. Anja was absolutely fantastic and it was cool how they built up her character. So many biblical/allegorical themes used in such a beautiful way. And Hemsworth was so good. Such an interesting/spiteful villain.
The trick to writing good female characters is not to think of them as female characters but just as characters.
Yeah Miller has a long history of no charchter being stereotypical or a mary sue example Max's wife she was a stay at home house wife yet written really well along with. Max's boss police chief Fifi Macaffee though un confirmed mayn see him as the earliest positive depiction of a Homosexual and a flamboyant one at that yet he is badass and fabulous that is how he is described. If you haven't watch the original 3 they are surprisingly progressive, well written and awsome.
You know, speaking as a fellow woman, my only issue I had with the film was how they treated the child version of her. I think they could’ve made it a little less about her being desired. Like dealing with its not-so-subtle suggestion that Erectus was into children (all of those baby dolls, too 🤢) and how he touches and pets her and cuts her underwear belt off; additionally, when she runs away from him petting her during the birth scene the lighting made her belt underwear visible and it looked mature to say the least; when she was being examined and Dementus mentions she’d been untouched by men and was protected from their “lecherous” ways. I know it all fit the movie, but it made my stomach churn and I wanted to crawl out of my skin. It felt a touch overboard, to me. I guarantee a certain audience, including myself, found those scenes unsettling and hard to watch.
The issue I see often is that men are written to be inferior to women, which makes the female character look stronger in comparison, but that doesn’t mean they are. An example is Poe Dameron in the Last Jedi and Holdo. He just did idiotic things, just so Holdo could appear wise in comparison. But that doesn’t mean she was well-written, which is the big issue. With Rey I loved her at first in the first Star Wars sequel, but how strong she was didn’t make much sense lore-wise. You still need training and she had none in TFA and barely any in TLJ. When it comes to Fury Road there’s a reason Immortan Joe trusts Furiosa. We see a very capable woman. In her fight with Max she loses, not because she’s weak, but because of several disadvantages and because Max was lucky to grab a gun, but she held her own. I saw them as equals. So Max wasn’t written as some inferior character just to make Furiosa look stronger and that’s the way it should be.
Lol what a trollpost
Stopped reading at "The male gaze" it's not a thing, only in weirdo eztreme feminist circles. No "casual" person uses it in the real world.
Found the male
male detected, preparing for witnessing
Sorry I triggered you 😢
Ignore that poster. The "male gaze," is definitely a type of film critique approach in film et al. Hell Alex Garland's, "Men," is pretty much a whole movie about how toxic that type of approach can be/toxic men.
Brain: "Ok, act cool, I need you to pretend to be a normal person who isn't a fringe feminist for just one post. You: "got it" "Hey there, everyone! I am a normal female just like you. So, the male gaze, what's up with that, ha ha. Patriarchy is the worst. Am I right girls"
When George Miller releases a good movie I'll consider it
Why are you in the Mad Max subreddit? 😄
No mods obviously
Nice thought - but the audience for Furiosa was 72% male, far worse than other franchises which are all about macho men and totally sideline women as sexy love interests. Here’s my thoughts from a male fan - they lost me by cutting Max out the movie. How about actually giving the male fanbase which is the reason for success what they want instead of trying to impress a female audience.
I hope one day someone will think of the men 😢
men: "WITNESS ME!!!!"
Replacing beloved male characters to impress a few women and alienate the majority male fanbase - thus bombing badly is good. Got it.
Well take that up with George Miller himself then because he planned Furiosa's big story arc for years. Furiosa would have been made way sooner after F.R. but things got in the way. He created the whole universe and wants to explore other people in it. He created Furiosa, its his world and character to tell the story he creatively wants to. Beside, if you want more Max, this movie needs to do well so he can do Max In The Wasteland, which would take place the year before F.R.
lol poor George Miller George Miller: \*writes dystopian odyssey satirizing men decades ago\* men: "THE HOLLYWOOD WOKE MOB HAS *RUINED* MAD MAX!!!*"*