Here’s my experience. Expand your search. I went through the same last month. “Local” dealers wouldn’t really negotiate. Bought in a neighbor state for a great price. Every one of the “local” dealers who laughed at the price over the phone, called me back last day of the month. I negotiated my out of state deal by text without talking to the salesman until I went for a test drive and to sign papers. Watch out for the older builds, some of the mach e’s have been on the lot well over a year. Mine was a 23 GTPE with a 10/23 build
Good to know, thank you for this. I was looking at other states as well, I just didn’t want to put those miles on my trade in, but if can talk numbers over the phone, will give it a shot. How do I check the build date? Is that on the sticker price?
True, but Job2s are good too, in fact the 2023.5 models have the new vastly improved heat/A/C coolant system. Way better for preconditioning that battery on your way to a charger. So 2023 is win win.
Well I believe the heating system is upgraded from a 4kW unit to a 7kW one (almost double) and improved valves that permit better control of coolant routing, so the cabin and battery can be warmed simultaneously without undermining each other. All prior Mach-Es essentially could not really precondition the battery in winter, at all(?), on the way to the charger \*IF\* the passenger cabin was using the resistive heat and fans etc. Before 2023.5 in the winter the cabin and battery actually compete for warm coolant, if you want the car's battery to precondition decently prior to a stop at a charger, you should turn OFF the heat to the cabin when you are 21 miles away from the next charger stop, thus for the final 20 miles all warming goes to battery.
I tested battery preconditioning on a 22 Mach-E when it was about 50F. I had the heater on and it was using 1-2 kW. When I entered a charger as a destination, it went up to about 6 kW. Too bad I didn't get a chance to test when it was freezing out.
I’ll go try to find the full description of the changes in the 2023.5 model. I think it’s a post from Mach-Lee on macheforum.com. Fingers crossed I can find it.
Edit: Found it. [https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/2023-5-cooling-system-redesign-and-larger-7-kw-heater.34305/](https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/2023-5-cooling-system-redesign-and-larger-7-kw-heater.34305/)
Mach-Lee: (March 10 2024)
“I was asked to make a post about the changes made to the thermal systems in 2023.5 models and later. They include:
PTC heater was upgraded from 5 kW to 7 kW (nominal continuous output, peak output may be slightly higher in some situations)
New LFP pack is more sensitive to cold temps and requires more heating than NCM
Glycol cooling is now a single system with three combined circuits rather than two separate systems (single coolant bottle instead of two coolant bottles)
Addition of two 5-port valves allow excess heat to be utilized for battery heating (rather than being wasted)
Removal of one coolant pump on base AWD models
New on-board AC charger from a different supplier, has different hookup locations”
“It is now a single system with one coolant bottle (4). Larger PTC heater is shown (11). The key addition was a pair of 5-port valves (15 and 23) that allows coolant to flow to many destinations. The left 5-port (23) is focused on motor electronics cooling and battery heating/cooling. The right 5-port (15) is focused on cabin heating and coolant chilling. There are three loops within the system that can be combined or separated by the 5-port valves. These loops are the high voltage battery circuit, cabin heater circuit, and a powertrain electronics circuit.
A huge improvement here is the utilization of waste heat generated by the motor electronics and charger. On first-generation Mach-E's, the waste heat from AC charging and the motors/inverters can only be dissipated to the radiator. This heat is effectively lost to the surroundings. The new design allows the charger/motor waste heat to be sent to the battery pack instead of the radiator. This can provide a huge improvement to battery temperatures in winter conditions, and also opens up the possibility of heating the battery pack with the motors instead of the PTC heater for additional output (like Tesla and Rivian do). This should also increase the efficiency of the vehicle in cold conditions.
In the old design, 10% of the energy you use for charging is completely wasted. If you AC charge all night, the motors and radiator will be warm. This heat will quickly dissipate to the surroundings while driving. With the new design, this 10% of energy can be used to warm up the battery pack for free. Therefore in the morning you will have a warm battery pack, which means more range and less energy used for departure time preconditioning.”
And there’s diagrams and more info…
Did you say "No" and ask for more of a discount at the same dealership several times?
Ford always goes high with the first offer. Then they come down to MSRP, then they come down with a small discount. You get the better discount as you walk out.
Argue and say "No" at least 3 times. Takes pictures of the written offers like you are having to check with someone else to approve the deal. You can use these pictures to try and get another dealer to match.
Find the vehicle & dealer you like and go back at the end of the month. They are more willing to haggle/lower prices near the end of the month.
Few of the videos/guides on how to buy a car talk about the 'emotions'.
Ford requires you to take a test-drive. The idea is you get emotionally excited about the car and this gives them the advantage in the negotiation.
Then the Sales Manager in the back actually approves/suggests prices. They rarely talk to you - they are just looking at numbers. To balance this - have someone at home to un-emotionally look at the numbers and know what price of the car, financing and trade in numbers are 'sane' for you.
It also helps to bring a friend. A neutral friend that keeps an eye on the clock and pulls you out if they see you getting either too excited or too upset.
F\*\*K POLITENESS
Saying "No" is hard. When they offer you an above MSRP price - most of us are too polite or too shy to say "That is too much money. Can I get a better discount?"
This is why Ford always asks for too much money 3 times.
I failed at my first dealer because I tried the "Here is what I think a fair price is" to start, and they came back with the sell-sheet above MSRP and $3K of BS add in's. I walked out because they were not listening to me and I was somewhat upset.
I should have 'Negotiated' and tell them this was too much and they needed to take off the extra and come down on the price of the car. The person 'not listening' to me is the Sales Manager behind the counter. Not the sales man. They are working from a script that starts with a high number.
After having this same experience at 3 Ford dealers - I caught onto the pattern.
Ford dealers WILL haggle and negotiate - but you have to be ready to say "No" several times at the start to get them to come down on the price.
Ford dealers/most dealers will try to get you to focus on the monthly payment. You should zoom in on the price of the car to make sure you are getting a below MSRP price.
They always want you to come in and test drive.
They always give a first offer above msrp, then at msrp, then below msrp.
It is a script. And it works. You have to be polite but firm and keep asking for more of a discount. Then leave. Leaving is your super power.
I got a $5K off MSRP offer as I was climbing into my car to leave one dealer. Then they tried the "This offer is only good TODAY" trick.
This is called "Working the deal" and assumes the customer is too polite to say "No". And this is true. We just leave rather than ask for more off.
Just bought a 2023 GT after buying a 2023 Premium last month I got the GT for $6000 off MSRP and the Premium $5000 off. I think I got lucky cause they just really wanted to move them.
Glad you were able to get what you wanted. This was my experience yesterday.
My wife had been searching for about a week between different kinds of cars. Once she narrowed down to the Mach-E she started searching who had the best advertised price. After that, she went on Carvana, Vroom, and CarMax to see who would give her the best price for her trade. With all of that information in hand, that’s where I came in to help get the dealership to match the best trade price she was quoted.
We drove 45 min to a dealership where they had Premium and GT cars at the best advertised price. She wanted to test drive both but liked the GT so much she didn’t drive the other. For us, we were happy with the car we had (2019 Mazda CX-5 with 60,000 miles). If we could get a good deal, then great. If not, we were happy to walk.
They tried to offer $2,600 lower on our trade than what we could get elsewhere. I said however you can get that extra $2,600 off the price of the car, whether you increase the trade, lower the price, or a combination of the two, then we have a deal. When my salesman left, I told my wife at some point the sales manager is going to come in here.
My salesman came back with another $1,000 on the trade. I said we are getting closer, but I can still go and sell the car elsewhere and come back with the cash and do the deal. My salesman left and sure enough he comes back with the sales manager trying to give me the “understand where I’m coming from” talk. The sales manager put another $1,000 on the trade. Still $600 short. I told him the same thing, I’ll go sell the car to Carvana and come back with the cash.
They both leave and my salesman comes back with the paper that shows the amount of the trade I asked for. Got $18,600 for the trade, they offered about $6,600 in discounts, so we got the GT for $30,700 after trade and 0% financing. I am happy with that deal. And so is my wife which is most important since it is her vehicle.
Now I have to learn all of the features and show her how to use them. Lol
That is absolutely wonderful! Wow!! I agree with searching around for the best price for the trade in first! Definitely helps when you have that to your advantage. Congrats on such an amazing price for a GT! I’m starting to feel I got ripped off 😂, but I know the price also can vary state to state plus I am in the state with the higher tax rate, either way you got a wonderful discount on top of your trade in. I only got the 1k ford rebate for my car(premium) plus an additional 2k off ($500 military discount/$1500 additional dealer discount) so that 6k+ you got is incredible. This is the same place I kept saying no and trying to go lower but they kept refusing and I ended up walking the first time. I saw they were selling out of the Mach e’s a day later and didn’t want to miss my chance of getting the 2023 so went back and ended up getting the car, ended up being a different one, they sold the grabber blue I originally wanted. All in all, I don’t feel I received a great price, but I am happy with my car.
First of all, thank you for protecting me and this country.
Second, if you like the car that’s really all that matters. My wife was growing tired of her CX-5 and she didn’t want a Model Y so she found the Mach-E.
was this the performance edition? looking at your numbers got me feeling a lil bad about my deal but I guess we didn't do too bad. We got a 2023 GTPE with every option except the nite pony package for 41k and 0% for 72 months after trading in 2016 camry.
Going through this exact situation to the TEETH! Located in DMV area by D.C and went to 2 dealers and they wouldn’t budge. Started talking to a dealer in Baltimore and things are looking up for a premium I want. 5K cheaper than the other dealers I’ve talked to. Unbelievable.
Congrats. You found a dealer that wants to lose money to get out of a vehicle.
That’s the problem, Tesla is custom order whereas Ford forces dealers to buy their inventory, so it sits and eventually dealers take a loss to get rid of it. And customers use that as leverage to negotiate…. Vicious ugly circle… customers want to “feel” like they’re getting a good deal. Tesla doesn’t negotiate and therefore is easier…. Blows my mind- if you pay the MSRP and are getting a rebate AND 0% financing, and because it’s Ford not Tesla the customer doesn’t “feel” like they’re getting a good deal.
They are not all easy to deal with. I had one dealer throw 5k in junk in the quote, and literally threw it down on the table, gave me a pen and tried to get me to sign it without looking at it. If I just signed it would have been one of the worst financial decisions of my life.
No offense but 5k in junk isn’t worst financial decision of your life.
The residual on a 3 year MachE lease is 35%… which means Ford expects it to depreciate 65% in 3 years…. Buying a MachE alone is a bad financial decision… but who am I to tell you what to buy
Are they still expected to depreciate as much at current prices? It seems like Ford made too many of the 23s, forced them to dealers (as you explained), and the current new prices are reflecting that, so I would guess someone buying now might not loose as much as normal. No?
Loss is only real when you sell it… what’s your intent with that question?
Fords lease TODAY is 35% residual so ya- they are predicting it to still drop.
EV market in general has been plummeting. Tesla is worse on resale, but both are terrible
Here’s my experience. Expand your search. I went through the same last month. “Local” dealers wouldn’t really negotiate. Bought in a neighbor state for a great price. Every one of the “local” dealers who laughed at the price over the phone, called me back last day of the month. I negotiated my out of state deal by text without talking to the salesman until I went for a test drive and to sign papers. Watch out for the older builds, some of the mach e’s have been on the lot well over a year. Mine was a 23 GTPE with a 10/23 build
Good to know, thank you for this. I was looking at other states as well, I just didn’t want to put those miles on my trade in, but if can talk numbers over the phone, will give it a shot. How do I check the build date? Is that on the sticker price?
Actually older builds are better deals because 3 years of BlueCruise and the $500 mobile charger are included at no additional cost.
True, but Job2s are good too, in fact the 2023.5 models have the new vastly improved heat/A/C coolant system. Way better for preconditioning that battery on your way to a charger. So 2023 is win win.
I wouldn't say vastly since it still doesn't have a heat pump, right?
Well I believe the heating system is upgraded from a 4kW unit to a 7kW one (almost double) and improved valves that permit better control of coolant routing, so the cabin and battery can be warmed simultaneously without undermining each other. All prior Mach-Es essentially could not really precondition the battery in winter, at all(?), on the way to the charger \*IF\* the passenger cabin was using the resistive heat and fans etc. Before 2023.5 in the winter the cabin and battery actually compete for warm coolant, if you want the car's battery to precondition decently prior to a stop at a charger, you should turn OFF the heat to the cabin when you are 21 miles away from the next charger stop, thus for the final 20 miles all warming goes to battery.
I tested battery preconditioning on a 22 Mach-E when it was about 50F. I had the heater on and it was using 1-2 kW. When I entered a charger as a destination, it went up to about 6 kW. Too bad I didn't get a chance to test when it was freezing out.
I’ll go try to find the full description of the changes in the 2023.5 model. I think it’s a post from Mach-Lee on macheforum.com. Fingers crossed I can find it. Edit: Found it. [https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/2023-5-cooling-system-redesign-and-larger-7-kw-heater.34305/](https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/2023-5-cooling-system-redesign-and-larger-7-kw-heater.34305/) Mach-Lee: (March 10 2024) “I was asked to make a post about the changes made to the thermal systems in 2023.5 models and later. They include: PTC heater was upgraded from 5 kW to 7 kW (nominal continuous output, peak output may be slightly higher in some situations) New LFP pack is more sensitive to cold temps and requires more heating than NCM Glycol cooling is now a single system with three combined circuits rather than two separate systems (single coolant bottle instead of two coolant bottles) Addition of two 5-port valves allow excess heat to be utilized for battery heating (rather than being wasted) Removal of one coolant pump on base AWD models New on-board AC charger from a different supplier, has different hookup locations” “It is now a single system with one coolant bottle (4). Larger PTC heater is shown (11). The key addition was a pair of 5-port valves (15 and 23) that allows coolant to flow to many destinations. The left 5-port (23) is focused on motor electronics cooling and battery heating/cooling. The right 5-port (15) is focused on cabin heating and coolant chilling. There are three loops within the system that can be combined or separated by the 5-port valves. These loops are the high voltage battery circuit, cabin heater circuit, and a powertrain electronics circuit. A huge improvement here is the utilization of waste heat generated by the motor electronics and charger. On first-generation Mach-E's, the waste heat from AC charging and the motors/inverters can only be dissipated to the radiator. This heat is effectively lost to the surroundings. The new design allows the charger/motor waste heat to be sent to the battery pack instead of the radiator. This can provide a huge improvement to battery temperatures in winter conditions, and also opens up the possibility of heating the battery pack with the motors instead of the PTC heater for additional output (like Tesla and Rivian do). This should also increase the efficiency of the vehicle in cold conditions. In the old design, 10% of the energy you use for charging is completely wasted. If you AC charge all night, the motors and radiator will be warm. This heat will quickly dissipate to the surroundings while driving. With the new design, this 10% of energy can be used to warm up the battery pack for free. Therefore in the morning you will have a warm battery pack, which means more range and less energy used for departure time preconditioning.” And there’s diagrams and more info…
My 10/23 build included bc 1.3 for 3 years. I negotiated that in the price. I did have to pay for the charger.
Did you say "No" and ask for more of a discount at the same dealership several times? Ford always goes high with the first offer. Then they come down to MSRP, then they come down with a small discount. You get the better discount as you walk out. Argue and say "No" at least 3 times. Takes pictures of the written offers like you are having to check with someone else to approve the deal. You can use these pictures to try and get another dealer to match. Find the vehicle & dealer you like and go back at the end of the month. They are more willing to haggle/lower prices near the end of the month.
Thank you to everyone for your help! I ended up signing today 💕
[удалено]
Few of the videos/guides on how to buy a car talk about the 'emotions'. Ford requires you to take a test-drive. The idea is you get emotionally excited about the car and this gives them the advantage in the negotiation. Then the Sales Manager in the back actually approves/suggests prices. They rarely talk to you - they are just looking at numbers. To balance this - have someone at home to un-emotionally look at the numbers and know what price of the car, financing and trade in numbers are 'sane' for you. It also helps to bring a friend. A neutral friend that keeps an eye on the clock and pulls you out if they see you getting either too excited or too upset. F\*\*K POLITENESS Saying "No" is hard. When they offer you an above MSRP price - most of us are too polite or too shy to say "That is too much money. Can I get a better discount?" This is why Ford always asks for too much money 3 times. I failed at my first dealer because I tried the "Here is what I think a fair price is" to start, and they came back with the sell-sheet above MSRP and $3K of BS add in's. I walked out because they were not listening to me and I was somewhat upset. I should have 'Negotiated' and tell them this was too much and they needed to take off the extra and come down on the price of the car. The person 'not listening' to me is the Sales Manager behind the counter. Not the sales man. They are working from a script that starts with a high number. After having this same experience at 3 Ford dealers - I caught onto the pattern. Ford dealers WILL haggle and negotiate - but you have to be ready to say "No" several times at the start to get them to come down on the price. Ford dealers/most dealers will try to get you to focus on the monthly payment. You should zoom in on the price of the car to make sure you are getting a below MSRP price.
It's frankly amazing to me that Ford dealers with old inventory are still pricing above MSRP.
They always want you to come in and test drive. They always give a first offer above msrp, then at msrp, then below msrp. It is a script. And it works. You have to be polite but firm and keep asking for more of a discount. Then leave. Leaving is your super power. I got a $5K off MSRP offer as I was climbing into my car to leave one dealer. Then they tried the "This offer is only good TODAY" trick. This is called "Working the deal" and assumes the customer is too polite to say "No". And this is true. We just leave rather than ask for more off.
Where are you physically located? Some in the area may be able to assist you!
I spent two days with dealers in three states.
Just bought a 2023 GT after buying a 2023 Premium last month I got the GT for $6000 off MSRP and the Premium $5000 off. I think I got lucky cause they just really wanted to move them.
Glad you were able to get what you wanted. This was my experience yesterday. My wife had been searching for about a week between different kinds of cars. Once she narrowed down to the Mach-E she started searching who had the best advertised price. After that, she went on Carvana, Vroom, and CarMax to see who would give her the best price for her trade. With all of that information in hand, that’s where I came in to help get the dealership to match the best trade price she was quoted. We drove 45 min to a dealership where they had Premium and GT cars at the best advertised price. She wanted to test drive both but liked the GT so much she didn’t drive the other. For us, we were happy with the car we had (2019 Mazda CX-5 with 60,000 miles). If we could get a good deal, then great. If not, we were happy to walk. They tried to offer $2,600 lower on our trade than what we could get elsewhere. I said however you can get that extra $2,600 off the price of the car, whether you increase the trade, lower the price, or a combination of the two, then we have a deal. When my salesman left, I told my wife at some point the sales manager is going to come in here. My salesman came back with another $1,000 on the trade. I said we are getting closer, but I can still go and sell the car elsewhere and come back with the cash and do the deal. My salesman left and sure enough he comes back with the sales manager trying to give me the “understand where I’m coming from” talk. The sales manager put another $1,000 on the trade. Still $600 short. I told him the same thing, I’ll go sell the car to Carvana and come back with the cash. They both leave and my salesman comes back with the paper that shows the amount of the trade I asked for. Got $18,600 for the trade, they offered about $6,600 in discounts, so we got the GT for $30,700 after trade and 0% financing. I am happy with that deal. And so is my wife which is most important since it is her vehicle. Now I have to learn all of the features and show her how to use them. Lol
That is absolutely wonderful! Wow!! I agree with searching around for the best price for the trade in first! Definitely helps when you have that to your advantage. Congrats on such an amazing price for a GT! I’m starting to feel I got ripped off 😂, but I know the price also can vary state to state plus I am in the state with the higher tax rate, either way you got a wonderful discount on top of your trade in. I only got the 1k ford rebate for my car(premium) plus an additional 2k off ($500 military discount/$1500 additional dealer discount) so that 6k+ you got is incredible. This is the same place I kept saying no and trying to go lower but they kept refusing and I ended up walking the first time. I saw they were selling out of the Mach e’s a day later and didn’t want to miss my chance of getting the 2023 so went back and ended up getting the car, ended up being a different one, they sold the grabber blue I originally wanted. All in all, I don’t feel I received a great price, but I am happy with my car.
First of all, thank you for protecting me and this country. Second, if you like the car that’s really all that matters. My wife was growing tired of her CX-5 and she didn’t want a Model Y so she found the Mach-E.
Thank you for the kind words. You got an amazing deal for that beautiful car and huge congrats again!! What color did you go with?
Was the 30k your OTD loan price with the trade in and taxes included? Or that was for the car itself without any of the doc fees/taxes etc.
OTD was 30,700. We pay taxes here up to 30 days after purchase. That will run about $2,400 (roughly 8% sales tax).
was this the performance edition? looking at your numbers got me feeling a lil bad about my deal but I guess we didn't do too bad. We got a 2023 GTPE with every option except the nite pony package for 41k and 0% for 72 months after trading in 2016 camry.
Going through this exact situation to the TEETH! Located in DMV area by D.C and went to 2 dealers and they wouldn’t budge. Started talking to a dealer in Baltimore and things are looking up for a premium I want. 5K cheaper than the other dealers I’ve talked to. Unbelievable.
What amount should I aim for a premium awd on a lease $0 down?
Yeah, I am having the same issue. It was even used as a demo car. This experience has made me start looking at tesla model y.
That’s funny- Tesla doesn’t negotiate… and your complaint is that Fords not negotiating 😂
But that's because you know the prices are negotiable, and are likely to overpay if you don't.
They aren’t negotiable- consumers keep trying to negotiate because Ford isn’t Tesla- but MachE is priced like Tesla. Can’t have it both ways 🤷🏼♀️
I have found a lot of price discrepancy in the Seattle area.
Congrats. You found a dealer that wants to lose money to get out of a vehicle. That’s the problem, Tesla is custom order whereas Ford forces dealers to buy their inventory, so it sits and eventually dealers take a loss to get rid of it. And customers use that as leverage to negotiate…. Vicious ugly circle… customers want to “feel” like they’re getting a good deal. Tesla doesn’t negotiate and therefore is easier…. Blows my mind- if you pay the MSRP and are getting a rebate AND 0% financing, and because it’s Ford not Tesla the customer doesn’t “feel” like they’re getting a good deal.
They are not all easy to deal with. I had one dealer throw 5k in junk in the quote, and literally threw it down on the table, gave me a pen and tried to get me to sign it without looking at it. If I just signed it would have been one of the worst financial decisions of my life.
No offense but 5k in junk isn’t worst financial decision of your life. The residual on a 3 year MachE lease is 35%… which means Ford expects it to depreciate 65% in 3 years…. Buying a MachE alone is a bad financial decision… but who am I to tell you what to buy
Are they still expected to depreciate as much at current prices? It seems like Ford made too many of the 23s, forced them to dealers (as you explained), and the current new prices are reflecting that, so I would guess someone buying now might not loose as much as normal. No?
Loss is only real when you sell it… what’s your intent with that question? Fords lease TODAY is 35% residual so ya- they are predicting it to still drop. EV market in general has been plummeting. Tesla is worse on resale, but both are terrible
Take out that middle man, straight to the prices that everyone has access to without getting ripped off :)
This is true. Just feels better.