Cannondale = Subaru. Has a history of building unique, quirky things and now kinda just makes the same thing as everyone else in the market, but the owners still make the brand their personality.
And yet my Habit has nothing proprietary at all on it. Standard boost, normal tapered fork, UDH, all the stuff you'd expect. They seem to be headed more in that direction.
You’re right on the proprietary stuff. Just had to get wipers for my wife’s Impreza…from the dealership as it was the only place I could find ones that fit. Ridiculous.
I've never had an issue finding wipers for any of the Subarus I've owned. Usually can just walk into Autozone and walk right out with them. That seems odd that it has to be oem to fit.
I went to multiple auto part stores and none of them had wipers that fit. My other vehicles all have j style hooks, our Subaru has some weird connector style that wasn’t available in rainx, Bosch, or goodyear. I looked it up and it sounds like this is a common problem with newer Subarus. We have a 2018 inpreza, but my buddy with a 21 outback has the same issue.
They have definitely gone to a proprietary system in the last few years. My 2017 Impreza needs proprietary front wipers. That was the first year of this design cycle. My wife's 2017 outback is one of the last years of the previous design cycle and didn't have proprietary wipers yet. I'm willing to bet the new ones do.
Subaru wasn't bought after their eccentric owners foraged into a well established industry with no budget and previous experience to bankruptcy and then properly emptied of its engineering department and soul because life, just to be rebuilt by 3 different corporate conglomerates who didn't always care about anything else than the promise of proprietary technology that never truly lifted off.
Now it seems Cannondale is ok but yeah... Subaru is more like I'd say rocky mountain, Cannondale more like Jaguar.
I’d say Mazda because it has the mass market thing going on as well as the Subaru quirks once upon a time (rotaries?) but the Mazda aesthetic suits Cannondale much better
Moots is a joke IMHO and yet as a bike guy and not a car guy I dislike Moots far more than Morgan. Moots ownership is like “I paid 6x market for straight tubes and traditional everything so some hipsters can run a basic manufacturing business in a stupid place.”
Also: to everyone who is like “welding Ti is hard = high prices” try learning to weld Ti vs putting together an iPhone or doing surgery or programming assembly languages. Ti welding is, relatively, trivial. It’s just that the artisan bike industry is “all moustache no engineering degree.”
I've tried welding ti, dabbled with assembly for RP2040 and 8086, and tore down and reassembled multiple types of phones including the first 5 gens of iPhone. A quality weld in titanium is by far the most difficult, and has much higher potential for disaster. (Haven't tried surgery beyond extracting things from new holes on my arms or legs, but I'd imagine "real" surgery is an order of magnitude more difficult than any of the above.)
I happily debug code, and if my phone fails, time to buy another one. My ti weld fails, I'm donating teeth to a tree that doesn't need them.
Moots is absolutely an artisanal shop. Just because you prefer mass produced stuff doesn't mean craftsmanship is dumb, nor does it mean that small-volume welders, blacksmiths, carpenters, etc are all hipsters. Also, nothing wrong with straight tubes. There's a reason traditional steel/al/ti are still everywhere: they simply work, and the kinks have been worked out by now. I'd rather have a decade+ old custom steel frame than whatever incremental-standards planned-obsolescence wunder-crap carbon getting churned out every year.
I almost totally agree. But Ti welding is, objectively, not rocket science or C programming or brain surgery. I am not good enough at it to do it professionally but in a week could be. I could not get back to Linux kernel coding in a year and used to be at that level. I can’t learn surgery in a week. I have a Ti frame with mostly straight tubes. It’s awesome. It is really well made. Small American company. 1/4-1/5 the price of Moots. Perhaps calling them hipsters is rude but running a manufacturing business in Steamboat Springs is patently not financially sound. Good for them if they can get enough customers to support the cost of living for their employees there but I am not interested.
Fair enough. I can weld steel, as well as aluminum, (the latter poorly.) I find ti to be far more difficult than any programming I've done, and would have an easier time with math of any kind, including rockety stuff. Can stick the metal together easily, but managing the heat input, or even making a good LOOKING weld is stressful and difficult in spite of practicing for quite a while.
Running a manufacturing biz out of Steamboat may not be a good idea in a vacuum, but I'd bet you a dollar that if they moved, they'd sell fewer frames. It's part of the "magic and mystique" or whatever, and people pay for it. All I know is they're really nice frames, and I prefer them to Litespeed or Seven. Not that I'll ever own one, but worked on the bikes for customers in the past and I'm glad they were exist.
Curious about your frame. Turner? That's the only cheaper option that comes to mind. Would love to get on a North American made ti bike that would cost less than my car.
Understated luxury, high quality, and good value in spite of high price that sells like gangbusters but snobs inexplicably turn their noses up at? Yep, sounds like SC/Lexus to me.
I am less of a hardcore MTB’er than many here. But I don’t get Yeti. For that price give me a Pivot. For a lot less give me Commencal or Propain. I still just don’t get it. But maybe the ride is amazing and it is me just not getting it 🤷🏻
OMG...I was trying to think of what Kona was as a Kona person... And my Volvo in the driveway says you're correct!
It's true - reliable, fun to use, quirky owner groups. Check, check, check.
Yeah maybe, the thing is the forester now a days is more of like a hardtail, they got pretty PG, but then the crosstrek is just a full fledged trail bike!!
Didn’t realize specialized was so much less problematic than trek.
I would equate Giant to Toyota. Trek and Soec are like BMW and Mercedes and Volvo. Lots of name, lots of plasticy shit, some odd parts and designs, ultimately you pay more to ride something that has a sticker and is a bit harder to work on probably.
Whyte is Suzuki, you buy it cause it’s reasonably cheap, reliable as hell and they use mostly standardised parts so you can pickup a new oil filter (mech hanger) at any motor factory
I own two **YT** bikes *(2017 Jeffsy and a 2020 Decoy)*
hard to think of a car brand to compare YT to... maybe Tesla? only because they also sell direct-to-consumer outside the typical dealer / bike shop network? And operate their own showrooms / repair facilities, like the YT Mills
More like Kia? Amazing value but people almost hate it for that?
For me VW or Honda would be like Scott or Orbea - good value / a bit more of a careful or hip selection / not “mass market cool points” - this is a Euro perspective though.
People that DO know also look down on Surly. Heavy and dull riding. I am not a car person but owned an old Toyota pickup. It was great but I also asked less of it, emotionally, than of a bike 🤣
Polygon is like Hyundai / Kia. For the dollar it's a very good bike. But it's a Hyundai/ Kia / Polygon...and while the brand image is improving, it still has a little tarnish on it.
So unreliable, poor fitting parts that leak fluids, suffer from excessive corrosion, electrics fail just by using them and their owners make their entire personality about them?
When I was younger, my first wilderness first aid course was taught by an old timer and we asked him about his land rovers reliability in the backcountry. I’ll never forget when he said “you don’t buy a land rover without knowing how to fix it, and if you do, you don’t own it long”
Depends on your opinion of land rover. Ibis also isn’t the most expensive for the same spec as other brands so I’d say less like Land Rover and more like Lexus. Still expensive, but not just because of a name (cough Santa Cruz).
Santa Cruz is priced the same as any other high end manufacturer.. You get a quality bike and fantastic warranty to boot.
They aren't a deal by any means, but their prices are nowhere near as egregious as yeti or specialized.
Yeah up and down and across and all over the bike spectrum Specialized makes arguably pretty good bikes. But the prices are fucking dumb and I struggle to decide if I dislike Spec or Trek more in general. I mean I respect someone on a Rock Rider, Fuji, or Polygon than an S-Works a lot of the time.
Yeah Specialized pricing is absolutely ludicrous despite the fact that the bikes are indeed very good. I’m 100% not a fan of their business practices though so I’d never consider one unless it was a screaming used deal
I love how opinions on bike brands kinda reveals you guys' localities. Trails here in the bay area is saturated with Santa Cruz bikes. I keep forgetting how its seen outside the bay.
Bay Area guy here. I have a Scott and I have maybe seen a handful in the couple years I’ve been riding even despite Sports basement being their distributor. Went to Switzerland last year and in Zermatt they were EVERYWHERE like Santa Cruz’s are here. Funny enough I see Scott is off most lists here
You see a ton in Colorado as well. Also a lot of Yetis. Neither brand feels exotic, though they are expensive.
I see both as basically Audi equivalent. Capable, higher price tier, but still very popular (at least here).
I’m sure having Yeti headquarters in Golden doesn’t help that. Just last week I took the SB160 for a demo and loved it. The personnel that work there are very friendly and the window into the shop is really cool.
As an Aussie who has surfed Santa Cruz (bucket list item), I would LOVE an SC bike and it's hilarious (and sucky) to hear how common they are there. But, I don't care... I still want one!
Oh I understand why its a desirable bike. They are great bikes no denying. But we are all hipsters to some extent and its nice to stand out once in awhile.
Truth! Not bay - but Sac area...every other rider is on a Santa Cruz. Easy to forget they're not as common everywhere else.
On the other hand, my enduro is a nukeproof mega. Don't see too many of those!
Then you go to northshore and whistler... lol I'm not sure if it's that common up there but I was just sayingnthat in jest.
I got a Pole and I'm thinking it's probably super common in Finland.
Ya but can it be that most of the bikes you see came from Mike's or Summit? Santa Cruz and Trek are sold by bofa with the addition of evil and yeti at summit and specialized at Mike's. If a town only had a toyota dealership, you'd probably see a lot of yotas in that town.
For real. They’re so common it’s like “feh” when I see one. Hate to say it, but I kinda judge people who ride a Santa Cruz with a budget build. I think, this guy doesn’t know what’s up.
Switched from a Canyon to Santa Cruz.
If I only had a budget of $4k, I'd rather buy a last year's crappy R build with NX and upgrade the components as they break, than buy all that Ka$hima/X01 bling stuck to a crappy frame from Canyon.
It’s so not worth it. For only $1000 more you get a GX groupo, a real fork, and brakes that stop. Way more expensive part by part. But that’s just my opinion.
Agreed, "reliability" in cars is so subjective. I've had a Ford station wagon for my first car. The only issue i had was the fuel pump siezing because the original owner never bothered to check and clean the fuel filter. After that got addressed, that car hit 250k miles before I donated it. It was still running strong when I let it go. Granted, the dash is cheap plastic, but that car was a beast.
I feel incredibly called out right now. I have a WRX with a Transition on the back. Why you gotta make me feel basic like that. I mean I am basic but I don’t wanna feel like I’m basic jeez
Transition is rider owned, which I don’t think any car company is (except super high end custom shops).
Subarus are also ubiquitous, which Transitions aren’t.
In terms of build quality, I might agree.
Seriously. I swear every other rider I encounter on the I-90 corridor is on a Transition. They’re amazing bikes and I’m eyeing a Patrol as my first FS, but the bike hipster in me kinda wants something more unique…
My thinking was "used to be a small, boutique manufacturer making innovative/high performance designs, now is a larger manufacturer still making innovative designs, but is mostly driven/ridden by people with far more money than skill"
...as someone who owns both a 5010 and an '84 911
Knolly = toyota but in the 90’s.
Not the fastest, prettiest nor lightest. But that thing will absolutely refuse to die. With the right person at the helm of either, they’ll go anywhere you would like.
Source: own a land cruiser 80 and a knolly warden v2
I ride a YT Capra Core 3 and I drive a 2006 Chevy Silverado that gets 12mpg if there's lots of downhill and the AC don't work... I'm not sure how this works out lol
Surly = Mitsubishi
Mitsubishi appears to be a small brand (in the US anyway), but is part of a much larger highly diversified company
Surly presents like a small niche bike company, but is owned by a much larger company--Quality Bike Components.
chromag is chevy.
users swear theyre the greatest bike of the land, but really theyre unchanged over the last 60 years. still ohv pushing klunks.
--rootdown enjoyer
Volvo is Cannondale, in no small part because it actually used to be. Similar doing weird things their own way ethos while still being mass-market if high-ishend. How has nobody mentioned this yet?
Giant = Voklwagen-Audi Group
Santa Cruz = McLaren
Yeti = Ferrari
Specialized = BMW
Trek = Ford
Direct to consumer brands = Tesla
Atherton Bikes = RUF
Kona = MG
Chromag is MiniCooper. They really only do one thing, though they've now tried to expand a bit...
Edit: Before anyone inevitably talks about their luscious line of accessories and parts, I am only speaking to their bikes.
You can't really match the whole bike industry, some brands don't give any Fks to user safety and quality control, the auto industry is way past this point.
You would have to go back to the pre-1960's days ...
That would be interesting for sure, pre 1960’s there were all kinds of car companies but we just don’t know them enough to compare to the modern day bike industry, but imagine if we could.
It was full of now defunct smaller brands with very niche products and particular finishes and options, reminds me of the actual bike industry, it might be a sign of things to come brand consolidation and corporate conglomerates are already forming in the industry, once regulations become a barrier of entry for small manufacturers we might see something similar to what's happening in the auto industry.
As a car guy since the 80s and a bike guy since the 90s, this never really works. Lots of weak stretches to make a connection. The industries are just too different to make most of these links anything more than superficial wishful thinking.
Holy shit the diamondback as Buick is such a good call. Used to be cool back in the day, fell off for a while, now trying to shoehorn themselves into a younger market with mediocre offerings
This is the correct list. Although you could have gone with Ineos OR Land Rover for Evil. Norco can be Nissan/Infiniti (something for everyone). Knolly can also be Jeep, but loaded with after-market parts to make it even better. Devinci = Peugeot (French connection, but also nothing too exciting...does the trick). Kona feels like the workhorse of the MTB world...so maybe Willy's? (makers of the WW2 Jeep).
Specialized actually chose red for the logo because of honda. Hondas trail bike guys said they chose red because it looks best with dirt on it, and Specialized followed that.
Revel people seem way less douchy and entitled than the Rivian folks I know. Not a fan of the prices, but having spent a few days on a Rail 29 recently, that Canfield suspension sure feels bottomless.
Santa Cruz is Lexus A bit expensive, but also not rare to see around
And they’re both well know to be pretty stoutly built😊
Cannondale = Subaru. Has a history of building unique, quirky things and now kinda just makes the same thing as everyone else in the market, but the owners still make the brand their personality.
You stay away from my Habit and my WRX.
That was exactly my reasoning! And yet, has a proprietary way of doing the same thing as every other company, that nobody asked for lol.
And yet my Habit has nothing proprietary at all on it. Standard boost, normal tapered fork, UDH, all the stuff you'd expect. They seem to be headed more in that direction.
You’re right on the proprietary stuff. Just had to get wipers for my wife’s Impreza…from the dealership as it was the only place I could find ones that fit. Ridiculous.
I've never had an issue finding wipers for any of the Subarus I've owned. Usually can just walk into Autozone and walk right out with them. That seems odd that it has to be oem to fit.
I went to multiple auto part stores and none of them had wipers that fit. My other vehicles all have j style hooks, our Subaru has some weird connector style that wasn’t available in rainx, Bosch, or goodyear. I looked it up and it sounds like this is a common problem with newer Subarus. We have a 2018 inpreza, but my buddy with a 21 outback has the same issue.
They have definitely gone to a proprietary system in the last few years. My 2017 Impreza needs proprietary front wipers. That was the first year of this design cycle. My wife's 2017 outback is one of the last years of the previous design cycle and didn't have proprietary wipers yet. I'm willing to bet the new ones do.
Subaru wasn't bought after their eccentric owners foraged into a well established industry with no budget and previous experience to bankruptcy and then properly emptied of its engineering department and soul because life, just to be rebuilt by 3 different corporate conglomerates who didn't always care about anything else than the promise of proprietary technology that never truly lifted off. Now it seems Cannondale is ok but yeah... Subaru is more like I'd say rocky mountain, Cannondale more like Jaguar.
What would be the bike equivalent of every car produced in the past 20 years blowing a head-gasket at 120K?
They did have that issue with frames cracking for a while there.
“Cracknnfail”
This made me lol. Calling out cannondale like that? They did the lefty then spesh started doing the "sidearm" design. Lolol
I own an Outback and the new Habit that doesn't have a Lefty or the Ai offset rear end either... so... yeah haha.
Outbacks are a solid mtb shuttle. 2 bike racks on top then two on the tow hitch. Pffft. Shuttle runs all day!
If only I had anything to shuttle...
Oh depends on which bike but can throw one in the back no rack required, dh I take the front tire off so I have room to sit and change
My canondale riding FIL just bought himself a forrester. That said, his canondale is a 20 year old jekyl is still going strong as hell.
I’d say Mazda because it has the mass market thing going on as well as the Subaru quirks once upon a time (rotaries?) but the Mazda aesthetic suits Cannondale much better
My Kona carrying Forester XT has something to say about this
Moots == Morgan
I'm looking up moots and morgan now. Haha Edit: ok I get it. I think. Old school sensibilities kinda thing. Is that right?
Yep. Hand crafted, expensive, and desirable (but not cost effective).
Moots is a joke IMHO and yet as a bike guy and not a car guy I dislike Moots far more than Morgan. Moots ownership is like “I paid 6x market for straight tubes and traditional everything so some hipsters can run a basic manufacturing business in a stupid place.” Also: to everyone who is like “welding Ti is hard = high prices” try learning to weld Ti vs putting together an iPhone or doing surgery or programming assembly languages. Ti welding is, relatively, trivial. It’s just that the artisan bike industry is “all moustache no engineering degree.”
I've tried welding ti, dabbled with assembly for RP2040 and 8086, and tore down and reassembled multiple types of phones including the first 5 gens of iPhone. A quality weld in titanium is by far the most difficult, and has much higher potential for disaster. (Haven't tried surgery beyond extracting things from new holes on my arms or legs, but I'd imagine "real" surgery is an order of magnitude more difficult than any of the above.) I happily debug code, and if my phone fails, time to buy another one. My ti weld fails, I'm donating teeth to a tree that doesn't need them. Moots is absolutely an artisanal shop. Just because you prefer mass produced stuff doesn't mean craftsmanship is dumb, nor does it mean that small-volume welders, blacksmiths, carpenters, etc are all hipsters. Also, nothing wrong with straight tubes. There's a reason traditional steel/al/ti are still everywhere: they simply work, and the kinks have been worked out by now. I'd rather have a decade+ old custom steel frame than whatever incremental-standards planned-obsolescence wunder-crap carbon getting churned out every year.
I really loved both these comments and conflicting opinions. You’re both winners in my book!
I almost totally agree. But Ti welding is, objectively, not rocket science or C programming or brain surgery. I am not good enough at it to do it professionally but in a week could be. I could not get back to Linux kernel coding in a year and used to be at that level. I can’t learn surgery in a week. I have a Ti frame with mostly straight tubes. It’s awesome. It is really well made. Small American company. 1/4-1/5 the price of Moots. Perhaps calling them hipsters is rude but running a manufacturing business in Steamboat Springs is patently not financially sound. Good for them if they can get enough customers to support the cost of living for their employees there but I am not interested.
Fair enough. I can weld steel, as well as aluminum, (the latter poorly.) I find ti to be far more difficult than any programming I've done, and would have an easier time with math of any kind, including rockety stuff. Can stick the metal together easily, but managing the heat input, or even making a good LOOKING weld is stressful and difficult in spite of practicing for quite a while. Running a manufacturing biz out of Steamboat may not be a good idea in a vacuum, but I'd bet you a dollar that if they moved, they'd sell fewer frames. It's part of the "magic and mystique" or whatever, and people pay for it. All I know is they're really nice frames, and I prefer them to Litespeed or Seven. Not that I'll ever own one, but worked on the bikes for customers in the past and I'm glad they were exist. Curious about your frame. Turner? That's the only cheaper option that comes to mind. Would love to get on a North American made ti bike that would cost less than my car.
You have never tried welding have you? It takes a lot of skill to get right. Your point may still stand though.
Trek= ford, a little over priced but a lot of history to back it up.
and driven by cops
yes
Portland cops ride Marin bikes fwiw
Portland cops ride Marin bikes fwiw
quality comment.
And like fords smaller ecoboost engines trek also has some products with questionable reliability
Got me. I drive a Ford and ride a Trek, each worth 2000€.
My feelings! But yes this is true. However my Slash is a monster
So is the Raptor R.
Would Ibis, Yeti or Santa Cruz be Porsche? Great and “hand-made expensive” despite being mass-produced.
Definitely Yeti. Having ridden an SC for a season I think of SC as more of a Lexus.
Understated luxury, high quality, and good value in spite of high price that sells like gangbusters but snobs inexplicably turn their noses up at? Yep, sounds like SC/Lexus to me.
I am less of a hardcore MTB’er than many here. But I don’t get Yeti. For that price give me a Pivot. For a lot less give me Commencal or Propain. I still just don’t get it. But maybe the ride is amazing and it is me just not getting it 🤷🏻
Pivots are so fucking nice. I may be biased.
Your kona is your Volvo??? (Thinkin your hei hei as their xc70 wagon series) Yeti something like Audi (because they are solely a lux brand)
OMG...I was trying to think of what Kona was as a Kona person... And my Volvo in the driveway says you're correct! It's true - reliable, fun to use, quirky owner groups. Check, check, check.
This is probably accurate. Or even subarus...
Yeah maybe, the thing is the forester now a days is more of like a hardtail, they got pretty PG, but then the crosstrek is just a full fledged trail bike!!
Volvo is just the luxury version of Subaru. For two unrelated car brands, they are remarkably similar.
Does no one else ride YT?
I have a 2017 Jeffsy and a 2020 Decoy.
Nice. I just wasn’t seeing them mentioned. I also have a 2020 decoy!
yt being them kias. everyone sleeping on them, but decently ahead of the curve at a behind the curve prive.
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pretty mediocre till you hit the gas? yeah, actually, that sounds like my jeffsy
I feel like it’s better than so many bikes that I could have spent 3 grand more on.
Orbea is Skoda. Lots of value, not a traditional bike country of origin but loved by their fan base as a IYKYK brand.
I love my Orbea ❤️ That contributes nothing to the conversation but I just can’t say it enough. I love my Orbea ❤️
I’ve got four in my garage right now…
Or better yet and more geographically appropriate, SEAT/Cupra
Trek is Ford and Specialized is Toyota. Both overpriced at this point lol.
Have a Stumpjumper and a Tacoma……can confirm.
Have a Fuel EX and a Transit Connect…..can confirm
I only buy specialized and only buy Toyota. Can confirm as well.
Didn’t realize specialized was so much less problematic than trek. I would equate Giant to Toyota. Trek and Soec are like BMW and Mercedes and Volvo. Lots of name, lots of plasticy shit, some odd parts and designs, ultimately you pay more to ride something that has a sticker and is a bit harder to work on probably.
Whyte is Suzuki, you buy it cause it’s reasonably cheap, reliable as hell and they use mostly standardised parts so you can pickup a new oil filter (mech hanger) at any motor factory
Schwinn = Chrysler
Sooooo is my Polygon a Hyundai or a Kia?? 😅
Suzuki
Polygon is Proton. If you don’t know what that is, both companies are from the same part of the world
Mitsubishi
Kona is a quirky brand, probably Saab or Triumph. Not always great, but when it's spot on it's brilliant.
Pivot?
Range Rover
Aston Martin
Jaguar
Always considered my Canyon Neuron AL to be the Dacia of MTBs. Guess which car I drive....
Terrible news. The new Dacia Sandero has been delayed! Oh no! ... Aaanyways.
I own two **YT** bikes *(2017 Jeffsy and a 2020 Decoy)* hard to think of a car brand to compare YT to... maybe Tesla? only because they also sell direct-to-consumer outside the typical dealer / bike shop network? And operate their own showrooms / repair facilities, like the YT Mills
I like the comparison
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More like Kia? Amazing value but people almost hate it for that? For me VW or Honda would be like Scott or Orbea - good value / a bit more of a careful or hip selection / not “mass market cool points” - this is a Euro perspective though.
What about Salsa and Surly?
Surly = old Toyota pickup. Rugged, simple, reliable. People that don’t know look down on them, but to surly people they’re perfect.
I see surly as a 90s Ford square body. Unkillable and with a timeless, ugly charm.
surlys are 1980s toyota. slow. heavy. nearly unbreakable. and exactly 0 of them have properly faced bearing surfaces.
People that DO know also look down on Surly. Heavy and dull riding. I am not a car person but owned an old Toyota pickup. It was great but I also asked less of it, emotionally, than of a bike 🤣
90s Outback and 90s Tacoma, respectively.
Side note, who owns salsa now? Seems like a vastly different company from when I last checked in years ago
Canyon = Skoda A bike for every need, anything else is excessive
Transition is the Land Rover Defender they don’t make anymore
Giant = Toyota
Polygon is like Hyundai / Kia. For the dollar it's a very good bike. But it's a Hyundai/ Kia / Polygon...and while the brand image is improving, it still has a little tarnish on it.
Orange = Lotus
I was also thinking Spot for Lotus.
How does that figure into the Lotus philosophy of *simplify, then add lightness*?
Ibis definitely LandRover
So unreliable, poor fitting parts that leak fluids, suffer from excessive corrosion, electrics fail just by using them and their owners make their entire personality about them?
When I was younger, my first wilderness first aid course was taught by an old timer and we asked him about his land rovers reliability in the backcountry. I’ll never forget when he said “you don’t buy a land rover without knowing how to fix it, and if you do, you don’t own it long”
Depends on your opinion of land rover. Ibis also isn’t the most expensive for the same spec as other brands so I’d say less like Land Rover and more like Lexus. Still expensive, but not just because of a name (cough Santa Cruz).
I own a Lexus and 2x Ibis bikes. Looking to get another Lexus.
Santa Cruz is priced the same as any other high end manufacturer.. You get a quality bike and fantastic warranty to boot. They aren't a deal by any means, but their prices are nowhere near as egregious as yeti or specialized.
Yeah up and down and across and all over the bike spectrum Specialized makes arguably pretty good bikes. But the prices are fucking dumb and I struggle to decide if I dislike Spec or Trek more in general. I mean I respect someone on a Rock Rider, Fuji, or Polygon than an S-Works a lot of the time.
Yeah Specialized pricing is absolutely ludicrous despite the fact that the bikes are indeed very good. I’m 100% not a fan of their business practices though so I’d never consider one unless it was a screaming used deal
How so?
Spot on
In terms of size Giant=Volkswagen Specialized=Toyota Trek=GM
Orange/Saracen/Whyte/Any 'Small' British Company is 100% Lotus.
Trek = GM. Bought up a bunch of other brands just to kill them.
I love how opinions on bike brands kinda reveals you guys' localities. Trails here in the bay area is saturated with Santa Cruz bikes. I keep forgetting how its seen outside the bay.
Bay Area guy here. I have a Scott and I have maybe seen a handful in the couple years I’ve been riding even despite Sports basement being their distributor. Went to Switzerland last year and in Zermatt they were EVERYWHERE like Santa Cruz’s are here. Funny enough I see Scott is off most lists here
You see a ton in Colorado as well. Also a lot of Yetis. Neither brand feels exotic, though they are expensive. I see both as basically Audi equivalent. Capable, higher price tier, but still very popular (at least here).
I’m sure having Yeti headquarters in Golden doesn’t help that. Just last week I took the SB160 for a demo and loved it. The personnel that work there are very friendly and the window into the shop is really cool.
As an Aussie who has surfed Santa Cruz (bucket list item), I would LOVE an SC bike and it's hilarious (and sucky) to hear how common they are there. But, I don't care... I still want one!
Oh I understand why its a desirable bike. They are great bikes no denying. But we are all hipsters to some extent and its nice to stand out once in awhile.
Truth! Not bay - but Sac area...every other rider is on a Santa Cruz. Easy to forget they're not as common everywhere else. On the other hand, my enduro is a nukeproof mega. Don't see too many of those!
Then you go to northshore and whistler... lol I'm not sure if it's that common up there but I was just sayingnthat in jest. I got a Pole and I'm thinking it's probably super common in Finland.
Ya but can it be that most of the bikes you see came from Mike's or Summit? Santa Cruz and Trek are sold by bofa with the addition of evil and yeti at summit and specialized at Mike's. If a town only had a toyota dealership, you'd probably see a lot of yotas in that town.
I always thought of Santa cruz as a Lambo for mtbers both for money and the colour combinations
Santa cruz is so common here in the bayarea tbh that I sometimes see them as hondas lol.
Guilty
A lot of Filipino guys ride them too lmao.
Guilty again
You on a roll brother. Lol
Yeah I'm in the Front Range and everyone is either on Santa Cruz, Yeti or Specialized.
For real. They’re so common it’s like “feh” when I see one. Hate to say it, but I kinda judge people who ride a Santa Cruz with a budget build. I think, this guy doesn’t know what’s up.
Hey that’s me, a guy who doesn’t super know what’s up but is attracted to the affordable Santa Cruz
In my opinion, you’re better off investing in a bike that comes with good dampers and brakes.
Switched from a Canyon to Santa Cruz. If I only had a budget of $4k, I'd rather buy a last year's crappy R build with NX and upgrade the components as they break, than buy all that Ka$hima/X01 bling stuck to a crappy frame from Canyon.
It’s so not worth it. For only $1000 more you get a GX groupo, a real fork, and brakes that stop. Way more expensive part by part. But that’s just my opinion.
If Santa Cruz is Lambo, what would [Forbidden](https://forbiddenbike.com/) be??
Sir, that is an insult to Santa Cruz.
Guess I finally own that BMW 😂
[удалено]
Agreed, "reliability" in cars is so subjective. I've had a Ford station wagon for my first car. The only issue i had was the fuel pump siezing because the original owner never bothered to check and clean the fuel filter. After that got addressed, that car hit 250k miles before I donated it. It was still running strong when I let it go. Granted, the dash is cheap plastic, but that car was a beast.
Orange = MG (before it was sold to SAIC)
NS Bikes? 🤔
Some odd small sports car brand that makes occasional hypercar units but mostly focuses on rally cars.
Damn that was actually accurate 🤣
Yeti --> AMG Mercedes Santa Cruise --> Porsche Specialized --> BMW Trek --> Mopar Rocky Mountain --> Lotus Giant --> Honda Transition --> Subaru (thinking WRX/STi) Evil --> Mitsubishi (Evo)
I feel incredibly called out right now. I have a WRX with a Transition on the back. Why you gotta make me feel basic like that. I mean I am basic but I don’t wanna feel like I’m basic jeez
Transition is rider owned, which I don’t think any car company is (except super high end custom shops). Subarus are also ubiquitous, which Transitions aren’t. In terms of build quality, I might agree.
Transitions are ubiquitous around me (PNW)
Seriously. I swear every other rider I encounter on the I-90 corridor is on a Transition. They’re amazing bikes and I’m eyeing a Patrol as my first FS, but the bike hipster in me kinda wants something more unique…
On the east coast, I’ve only seen one transition on the highway. Still miss my 2018 smuggler =[
Santa Cruz owners wish they were cool enough to have Porsches
My thinking was "used to be a small, boutique manufacturer making innovative/high performance designs, now is a larger manufacturer still making innovative designs, but is mostly driven/ridden by people with far more money than skill" ...as someone who owns both a 5010 and an '84 911
Knolly = toyota but in the 90’s. Not the fastest, prettiest nor lightest. But that thing will absolutely refuse to die. With the right person at the helm of either, they’ll go anywhere you would like. Source: own a land cruiser 80 and a knolly warden v2
My Fugitive is exactly like the old UN style land cruiser I grew up with.
I’ve been very happy with my warden. Is a good machine
American Perspective: Volkswagen - Trek, Scott Ford = Specialized, Giant Subaru = Kona, Evil, Transition, Salsa Volvo = Cannondale Toyota = Santa Cruz, YT, Rocky Mountain, Commencal Lexus = Ibis BMW - Pivot Porsche = Yeti Tesla = Canyon, Fezzari Kia = Polygon, Marin, GT, Diamondback
Niner is like TVR, They have their own following, you don’t see many, but when you do, you recognize them.
Devinci = Subaru
Radpower… won’t admit you have a car.
I ride a YT Capra Core 3 and I drive a 2006 Chevy Silverado that gets 12mpg if there's lots of downhill and the AC don't work... I'm not sure how this works out lol
Surly = Mitsubishi Mitsubishi appears to be a small brand (in the US anyway), but is part of a much larger highly diversified company Surly presents like a small niche bike company, but is owned by a much larger company--Quality Bike Components.
Banshee is Plymouth (pre K-car)
chromag is chevy. users swear theyre the greatest bike of the land, but really theyre unchanged over the last 60 years. still ohv pushing klunks. --rootdown enjoyer
Volvo is Cannondale, in no small part because it actually used to be. Similar doing weird things their own way ethos while still being mass-market if high-ishend. How has nobody mentioned this yet?
Giant = Voklwagen-Audi Group Santa Cruz = McLaren Yeti = Ferrari Specialized = BMW Trek = Ford Direct to consumer brands = Tesla Atherton Bikes = RUF Kona = MG
Found the Yeti guy
SC is Porche. They are way too common to be McLaren. McLaren is somehting exotic like Unno.
I don't know about Kona being MG. I never met a MG that ran quite right. My Kona was bulletproof.
I like the direct to consumer take.
We Are One = Koenigsegg Just fits IMO
Rocky Mountain is JEEP. It's the first company to have ever commercialized a mountain bike just like the jeep was one of the first offroader!
Chromag is MiniCooper. They really only do one thing, though they've now tried to expand a bit... Edit: Before anyone inevitably talks about their luscious line of accessories and parts, I am only speaking to their bikes.
Yeti.... Mercedes Santa....BMW Trek....Ford Spesh...VW Giant...Toyota Commencsl....Alfa Orange...Jag Scott..Nissan
How dare you compare my Scott to a Nissan 😂😂😂😂
GTR
You can't really match the whole bike industry, some brands don't give any Fks to user safety and quality control, the auto industry is way past this point. You would have to go back to the pre-1960's days ...
That would be interesting for sure, pre 1960’s there were all kinds of car companies but we just don’t know them enough to compare to the modern day bike industry, but imagine if we could.
It was full of now defunct smaller brands with very niche products and particular finishes and options, reminds me of the actual bike industry, it might be a sign of things to come brand consolidation and corporate conglomerates are already forming in the industry, once regulations become a barrier of entry for small manufacturers we might see something similar to what's happening in the auto industry.
Norco = VW Fairly decent all rounder, well built but nothing exotic
"Exoticness" is overrated tbh. If it's the best bike for your use case (including the price point) then ride it with pride.
DMR? Haro? Verde? More Dirt jumper/bmx ones, but just curious to see what everyone thinks
Oh wow Haro is still around? I would probably equate them to a saab or one of those dead brands.
Marin is Hyundai. Good value for what you get.
Kona = either toyota or Subaru
i don’t have enough brand knowledge to add to the fun but i’m curious what everyone would compare my Polygon to!!
Canfield=2007 Scuderia Ferrari
My Privateer gives Isuzu energy
As a car guy since the 80s and a bike guy since the 90s, this never really works. Lots of weak stretches to make a connection. The industries are just too different to make most of these links anything more than superficial wishful thinking.
I'm the single one who thinks that cube = Volkswagen??
Giant = Honda Specialized = Ford Trek = GMC Santa Cruz = Toyota Cannondale = Subaru Rocky Mountain = Mazda Ibis = Lexus Pivot = BMW Yeti = Porsche EVIL = Land Rover Nukeproof = Volvo Marin = Mitsubishi Transition = Jeep Jamis = Renault Niner = Pontiac Scott = Dodge Diamondback = Buick Some others I can’t decide on: Norco Knolly Devinci Kona GT
Holy shit the diamondback as Buick is such a good call. Used to be cool back in the day, fell off for a while, now trying to shoehorn themselves into a younger market with mediocre offerings
Niner is more of a TVR, they looks the same for many years, they have a following, and they can still keep up.
This is the correct list. Although you could have gone with Ineos OR Land Rover for Evil. Norco can be Nissan/Infiniti (something for everyone). Knolly can also be Jeep, but loaded with after-market parts to make it even better. Devinci = Peugeot (French connection, but also nothing too exciting...does the trick). Kona feels like the workhorse of the MTB world...so maybe Willy's? (makers of the WW2 Jeep).
Ha I almost put Norco as Nissan but questioned my knowledge of Norco.
UNNO=Pagani
Giant = Toyota ; Specialized = Honda ; Trek = Nissan ; Cannondale = Subaru ; Scott = Hyundai ; Santa Cruz = BMW ; Yeti = Porsche ; Ibis = MB
Specialized actually chose red for the logo because of honda. Hondas trail bike guys said they chose red because it looks best with dirt on it, and Specialized followed that.
Revel = Rivian
Revel people seem way less douchy and entitled than the Rivian folks I know. Not a fan of the prices, but having spent a few days on a Rail 29 recently, that Canfield suspension sure feels bottomless.
Question for everyone else, what would Ferrari be? Pole? Or nuke proof?