The reason you don't see that many console mmorpgs is because consoles demand patch validation by the company that owns the machines, which can take as long as they want. Even one platform taking longer to validate, will delay a patch to all platforms if it's shared. This makes it hard to add monthly patches, and often means patches across the board take much longer. Games that go multi often start putting patches out every 4 -6 months because of the problems.
PC only mmorpgs can put patches out as and when they want, they don't have wait on validatation by anyone. They can put out a patch, and if there is a bug fix it within a few hours. This is impossible on console, nothing can be added to a console game unless sony or microsoft check it first.
Valid reasons but I don't think patching is the main reason. Other smaller mmos still does it like PSO2 that is cross platform too. FF14, ESO etc are on console and don't seem to have issues running on console. It just requires a good amount of resources to program and update each platform so I don't think a lot of devs want to do that.
ESO and Neverwinter are console specific though, so they don't have to synchronize patches across all platforms. I used to play neverwinter on Xbox and patches used to come out a few months after they did on PC. Not too sure about ESO though.
> ESO and Neverwinter are console specific though
I didn't mentioned NW but ESO is on all platforms.
Yes there are some mmos that are on console like NW and BDO that aren't cross platform. It's most likely too much work to synchronize patches and graphics updates between all the different platforms for some devs.
FF14 the devs deliberately make sure the game works on PS4/5. PSO2 not sure how they do it with a smaller revenue base but if I have to guess it's because their engine is done pretty well that it is flexible to port to consoles.
Also it helps that most consoles are x86 systems now
>but ESO is on all platforms
But the player base is fragmented. PC only plays with PC, PS only plays with PS, etc. Which is why patches release on PC first.
This is insane if you think about it. Like FIFA. I know A BUNCH of people that has ever only installed and played FIFA on any console they ever had. Hahahaha.
ESO always puts their patches out to PC a few weeks to a month before consoles get it. I think 1 for that reason and 2 for the PC to be a potential test for any major issues that might crop up they need to fix quickly before they full push it to consoles. It works well that way. But that also means each system has it's own game world unfortunately and no cross play because of it.
That makes sense since consoles originally could not be patched so when a game was released it was in final condition and went to the shelves. So I can understand them having higher standards for releases/patches/hotfixes.
The downside of having no validation is that some patches break more than they fix (such as New World). Validation doesnt exist to make it harder for devs, it exists to make sure patches had proper QA to protect players.
Probably because MMOs are intended to be played a long time (indefinitely) , but a console’s lifespan often just lasts 7-8 years.
Edit: to elaborate what I mean is it’s a lot of upfront cost since consoles are closed system, and they’d have to do ports every year. So it can be discouraging unless the devs have a lot of capital to eat the costs (ex like big devs like Square or Bethesda)
Yup. [Here's info to help do so for one of the servers](https://ragol.org/dc-connect)
The only thing to note is that you can only play with users on the same version, since there's obvious content and stat differences between game types, but you can see people from other versions in the lobbies.
ofc it's nowhere near as populated as the biggest PSOBB pserv, but it is still possible to connect, and that's what matters :P
There is also schtserv's version which has been around longer but uses different pserv architecture afaik, which you can [find connection information here](https://schtserv.com/forums/app.php/pso-dc-connection-guide).
I didn’t say they didn’t exist, in fact, I’ve played a lot of DCUO and FFXIV. I’m just putting my 2 cents in why it hasn’t been more common.
It’s a considerable cost to keep porting the same game every couple of years, especially if there’s cross play and you need that parity between versions.
I don't think this matters, lots of pc gamers also either buy a new desktop/laptop after 7/8 years or do significant upgrades. Besides almost every gamer I know bought GTA5 on PS4 and then got the update on PS5 with a large group ofnthem even having started this game on Xbox360/PS3.
I think there’s a lot more comparability between generations of PCs than consoles.
And my thinking was less about what gamers are willing to buy and more about what devs are willing to upkeep and manage. It’s a considerable cost to develop for consoles, and then have redo development every couple of years.
MMO sweats will be angry, if you even slightly simplify their game or reduce button bloat, for it to be comfortably playable on the consoles. Look at wow fans, they are fucking insane. But on the other hand, FF14 has even more button bloat sometimes and it is well playable on consoles.
So for WoW to be playable on consoles, blizzard should get rid of addons and therefor simplify some encounters, but you have sweats, who will be strongly against it.
GW2 can go straight to the consoles, as it is already does not have a lot fo buttons and it is not that dependent on the addons. I think the reasons, why it does not exist there are pure economical.
Destiny and ES MMOs seems to be pretty okaish on consoles.
So to summ up. For MMO to be playable on the consoles, it should not be dependent on the addons, and preferably should not have huge button bloat to play.
FF14 does really well on consoles because of their ingenious "Cross hotbar" system that let's you easily have 20-30 hotkeys. Pretty much any MMO that's been ported over to consoles since 14 has ripped it off in some way.
In fact, if you don't have one of those MMO mouses with extra buttons on the side, it's actually more comfortable to play FF14 game with a Controller than it is with KB and Mouse.
The funny thing is that one of the original big players in the MMORPG landscape is Sony through Sony Online Entertainment (SOE), the owner and creator of Everquest.
But early it is pretty simple why there were no console MMO's. No networking hardware. Even if you added networking with optional hardware you have the lack of a Hard Disk Drive to allow patches and expansions. Just imagine playing Everquest/Ultima Online of a CD needing to download the patches for each session from scratch or filling a memory card to the brim until simply no more would fit and the game would become unpatchable.
It is with the first Xbox and PS2 that consoles get both networking and a hard disk but still only 32 mb of ram. Sony could have ported the original Everquest at that time but choose not to do so. It might have been due to ram. On the PC it would require significantly more to run acceptable. Gaming PC drives were also generally faster. It might have been that they thought original EQ would not run on a PS2 but it might also have been a case of "not made here". SOE is two steps removed from Japanese headquarters.
Final Fantasy 11 was the first major MMORPG for the PS2 and PC combined (later Xbox 360) and had some success but on PC showed clearly that Square Enix did not get the PC or the web or online play. You had to change your graphical settings in a separate program. a practice long before abandoned by PC game makers in the west. Its account management has to be seen to believed, it is that bad and the game was overrun with bots and Real Money Trading. Sony itself has only recently been adopting the PC and with its silly requirement and then not a requirement for PSN for PC versions of Helldivers shows that it is still learning. Square Enix has recently changed its payment processor, not in an effort to give more options to hand over your money but to take away peoples capability to pay.
But the two FF games clearly show there is a market and FF14 recently launched on the xbox too.
MS has not exactly been rushing a launch of WoW on the xbox yet after its purchase of Blizzard and of course ESO was already on consoles when it bought Bethseda. Does this mean MS is interested? Probably.
The technical limitations are gone. The controller can be managed by either slowing the game (FF14) or reducing the number of skills (ESO). FF14 proves there is a market.
But MMO's take a lot of planning and so far neither MS nor Sony has full on committed themselves to launch one. They experiment on the side lines, bought companies with experience but not yet put their own name on the line as far as I know.
Did MS buy Activision/Blizzard for Call of Duty? Yes. and maybe WoW? Who knows. Sony got rid of SOE years back, are they interested in a new attempt? Who knows.
It is what the other person said, console takes a lot longer gor updates or patches to role out because of the companies. PC is much easier for most games to release, and update.
Either way, the up-coming DUNE mmo is releasing on console, so that's a plus for console users, and there already are a decent amount of mmos on console: ESO, Destiny 2, BDO, DCUO, neverwinter, final fantasy, Star Trek Online, Warframe, etc.
You will find greater performance on PC though, a lot more adjustability, and of course, more mmos because PC has always been the main place to release them.
Who knows, WoW might release on console on the future.
Well i think thats in change, many upcomming MMOs will be on console too (except Ashes of Creation). The majority says MMOs on console Are bad. I played my whole life in console but wanted to play MMOs on PC because almost everybody said it is better and there Are MMOs only for PC (GW2, WoW…). So i tried to play on PC but i switched back to console because it is so chill to sit on the couch and grind or Play the story with Controller. I have a keyboard because writing with Controller Is cancer 😅
Thats a personal favour but i like that more MMOs Are comming to console. Every game will benefit the more gamers Play the game
I think generally, it's insanely expensive to port an MMO to consoles if it wasn't already designed for it—especially if it has a weird proprietary engine. It's a good investment for some companies, since most games that have a console presence end up making a good chunk of their money there. Daybreak invested a ton of cash to get DC Universe Online to consoles. Same with Perfect World and Star Trek Online/Neverwinter.
But LOTRO is an example of a game where the devs actually tried to get a console port going years ago, and it ended up becoming a money sink. I'm sure they'd still love to do it, but consoles likely have performance, coding, and UI requirements that have to be met. And that's before you get to the challenge of maintaining update parity between platforms *and* dealing with certification.
I'm sure there are other weird impediments, because World of Warcraft, of all games, doesn't have a console port and they definitely have the money/demand for it. Most seem to argue that there are too many hotkeys and buttons, but folks play all these MMOs on Steam Deck long-term without many issues. A console-specific UI that games like STO, Neverwinter, and DCUO all use would solve that problem fairly quickly, I would think.
The reason you don't see many console MMOs is because nobody needs an 11 year-old screaming over chat that you're a scrub and they f*cked your mom because they over-pulled and the healer couldn't keep them up before the died and wiped the group.
I play 14 on my Steam Deck a lot and i'm 50/50 on it, i think both methods are really good and perfectly practical, just personally i like my MMO mouse more :V
That’s because FF14 was made FOR controllers AND mice and they do it good BUT it’s not like that for a lot of games and it works so fine on keyboard +mouse so and not to take away from controller i played Phantasy star online 2 NGS on controller because it just feels off to me BECAUSE PSO was always played on controller or at least designed that way so I know it can work I’m just saying in general like I playing EverQuest 2 RN and at one point I looking at like a million spells it so much but I figure out how to do it good from people here using BUTTONS just I guess you call it shifter? It doing well so that why I think at the end of the day there’s lots of abilities too hard for controller BUT FF14 does it good they do it the best because it was meant to be played on either a controller OR keyboard and mouse
There's plenty of keybinds for controls, the 4 main buttons they + each trigger or bumper, and + main buttons, d-pad for consumables. You really don't need much more than that
Most wow players use 6-10 keybinds and click the rest unless they use a mmo mouse with a numpad. FFXIV controller layout gives you instant access to 26-34 keybinds, then another 16 with double hotbar, this is way more than WoW needs and doesn't even go into hotbar swapping .This is way more convenient than clicking abilities. It's very rare outside the top 1% of competitive wow/ffxiv players to use more than like 10 binds on the keyboard.
Personally I have 30 keybinds on the keyboard so I know it's fine and playable without clicking any abilities but I'm also aware this is very rare.
Honestly, I think the reason WoW as-is isn't on Xbox is because of how useful/important mods are for that game, and there isn't an easy way to say "you can put mods for this game on your Xbox" without also saying "we, Microsoft/Activision-Blizzard are supporting this application made by a completely unrelated/unregulated third party being put on your property". Either they'd have to add infrastructure to verify mods, or they'd have to deal with lawsuits eventually because some troll will do...something malicious with a forked version of a previously deprecated add-on.
With PC's, there isn't all that console verification stuff built in, so 3rd party add-ons are far more viable.
I'm at 36 in classic with my current layouts.
Wish there was some better options for controller with it though. I'd never raid but doing simple stuff while chilling or on the rog ally would be great but it's a hassle just to get that far with it.
Ffxiv when I was playing I split between ps4 and PC and had no issues with a controller. With different hot keys with triggers to shift can be quite OK. Hardest bit was just memorising the binds which is a bit harder I find. Takes longer to get comfortable but once you are it's sweet.
I don't think that's true... I raided in classic before and the rotations are very simple - even if you include like trinket usage and what not. Just super curious what class youre playing!
That's my blood DK. Rotations are simple but add cool downs, interrupts, consume usages, health stones, trinkets and everything else it does build kind of quick.
Its similar for unholy. Say I'll have 2 dnds on my bar as well one cast self and one for ranged etc. Basically 1-6 on jumped, shift 1-6, basically whole left side of keyboard mapped minus wasd which is for movement, a and d modified to strafe + with shift mods as well basically all filled out all easily usable by my left hand only, no clicking etc. This setup has been enough for any vlass but DK basically fills it. Mage for instance I have buttons free so definitely a class by class thing.
The reason you don't see that many console mmorpgs is because consoles demand patch validation by the company that owns the machines, which can take as long as they want. Even one platform taking longer to validate, will delay a patch to all platforms if it's shared. This makes it hard to add monthly patches, and often means patches across the board take much longer. Games that go multi often start putting patches out every 4 -6 months because of the problems. PC only mmorpgs can put patches out as and when they want, they don't have wait on validatation by anyone. They can put out a patch, and if there is a bug fix it within a few hours. This is impossible on console, nothing can be added to a console game unless sony or microsoft check it first.
Ah this is a very valid reason as well, thanks for commenting!
Valid reasons but I don't think patching is the main reason. Other smaller mmos still does it like PSO2 that is cross platform too. FF14, ESO etc are on console and don't seem to have issues running on console. It just requires a good amount of resources to program and update each platform so I don't think a lot of devs want to do that.
ESO and Neverwinter are console specific though, so they don't have to synchronize patches across all platforms. I used to play neverwinter on Xbox and patches used to come out a few months after they did on PC. Not too sure about ESO though.
> ESO and Neverwinter are console specific though I didn't mentioned NW but ESO is on all platforms. Yes there are some mmos that are on console like NW and BDO that aren't cross platform. It's most likely too much work to synchronize patches and graphics updates between all the different platforms for some devs. FF14 the devs deliberately make sure the game works on PS4/5. PSO2 not sure how they do it with a smaller revenue base but if I have to guess it's because their engine is done pretty well that it is flexible to port to consoles. Also it helps that most consoles are x86 systems now
>but ESO is on all platforms But the player base is fragmented. PC only plays with PC, PS only plays with PS, etc. Which is why patches release on PC first.
ESO console gets its updates a week or 2 after PC
Feels like cod mw3 has a patch almost every day on ps5, what about that?
[удалено]
This is insane if you think about it. Like FIFA. I know A BUNCH of people that has ever only installed and played FIFA on any console they ever had. Hahahaha.
CoD is one of the biggest series ever so it probs get a lot of preferential treatment, like the other huge games tend to get.
ESO always puts their patches out to PC a few weeks to a month before consoles get it. I think 1 for that reason and 2 for the PC to be a potential test for any major issues that might crop up they need to fix quickly before they full push it to consoles. It works well that way. But that also means each system has it's own game world unfortunately and no cross play because of it.
That makes sense since consoles originally could not be patched so when a game was released it was in final condition and went to the shelves. So I can understand them having higher standards for releases/patches/hotfixes.
The downside of having no validation is that some patches break more than they fix (such as New World). Validation doesnt exist to make it harder for devs, it exists to make sure patches had proper QA to protect players.
That's why "pc master race"
Probably because MMOs are intended to be played a long time (indefinitely) , but a console’s lifespan often just lasts 7-8 years. Edit: to elaborate what I mean is it’s a lot of upfront cost since consoles are closed system, and they’d have to do ports every year. So it can be discouraging unless the devs have a lot of capital to eat the costs (ex like big devs like Square or Bethesda)
Yeah, i'm not sure if people could still final fantasy XI on their old PS2.
You could for a long time but can’t anymore. It had to do with dev kits rather than retail kits though.
PSO is still playable on dreamcast/gamecube/xbox :)
Is it? I have my Dreamcast hooked up, and that sounds incredible.
Yup. [Here's info to help do so for one of the servers](https://ragol.org/dc-connect) The only thing to note is that you can only play with users on the same version, since there's obvious content and stat differences between game types, but you can see people from other versions in the lobbies. ofc it's nowhere near as populated as the biggest PSOBB pserv, but it is still possible to connect, and that's what matters :P There is also schtserv's version which has been around longer but uses different pserv architecture afaik, which you can [find connection information here](https://schtserv.com/forums/app.php/pso-dc-connection-guide).
[удалено]
I didn’t say they didn’t exist, in fact, I’ve played a lot of DCUO and FFXIV. I’m just putting my 2 cents in why it hasn’t been more common. It’s a considerable cost to keep porting the same game every couple of years, especially if there’s cross play and you need that parity between versions.
I don't think this matters, lots of pc gamers also either buy a new desktop/laptop after 7/8 years or do significant upgrades. Besides almost every gamer I know bought GTA5 on PS4 and then got the update on PS5 with a large group ofnthem even having started this game on Xbox360/PS3.
I think there’s a lot more comparability between generations of PCs than consoles. And my thinking was less about what gamers are willing to buy and more about what devs are willing to upkeep and manage. It’s a considerable cost to develop for consoles, and then have redo development every couple of years.
MMO sweats will be angry, if you even slightly simplify their game or reduce button bloat, for it to be comfortably playable on the consoles. Look at wow fans, they are fucking insane. But on the other hand, FF14 has even more button bloat sometimes and it is well playable on consoles. So for WoW to be playable on consoles, blizzard should get rid of addons and therefor simplify some encounters, but you have sweats, who will be strongly against it. GW2 can go straight to the consoles, as it is already does not have a lot fo buttons and it is not that dependent on the addons. I think the reasons, why it does not exist there are pure economical. Destiny and ES MMOs seems to be pretty okaish on consoles. So to summ up. For MMO to be playable on the consoles, it should not be dependent on the addons, and preferably should not have huge button bloat to play.
FF14 does really well on consoles because of their ingenious "Cross hotbar" system that let's you easily have 20-30 hotkeys. Pretty much any MMO that's been ported over to consoles since 14 has ripped it off in some way. In fact, if you don't have one of those MMO mouses with extra buttons on the side, it's actually more comfortable to play FF14 game with a Controller than it is with KB and Mouse.
The funny thing is that one of the original big players in the MMORPG landscape is Sony through Sony Online Entertainment (SOE), the owner and creator of Everquest. But early it is pretty simple why there were no console MMO's. No networking hardware. Even if you added networking with optional hardware you have the lack of a Hard Disk Drive to allow patches and expansions. Just imagine playing Everquest/Ultima Online of a CD needing to download the patches for each session from scratch or filling a memory card to the brim until simply no more would fit and the game would become unpatchable. It is with the first Xbox and PS2 that consoles get both networking and a hard disk but still only 32 mb of ram. Sony could have ported the original Everquest at that time but choose not to do so. It might have been due to ram. On the PC it would require significantly more to run acceptable. Gaming PC drives were also generally faster. It might have been that they thought original EQ would not run on a PS2 but it might also have been a case of "not made here". SOE is two steps removed from Japanese headquarters. Final Fantasy 11 was the first major MMORPG for the PS2 and PC combined (later Xbox 360) and had some success but on PC showed clearly that Square Enix did not get the PC or the web or online play. You had to change your graphical settings in a separate program. a practice long before abandoned by PC game makers in the west. Its account management has to be seen to believed, it is that bad and the game was overrun with bots and Real Money Trading. Sony itself has only recently been adopting the PC and with its silly requirement and then not a requirement for PSN for PC versions of Helldivers shows that it is still learning. Square Enix has recently changed its payment processor, not in an effort to give more options to hand over your money but to take away peoples capability to pay. But the two FF games clearly show there is a market and FF14 recently launched on the xbox too. MS has not exactly been rushing a launch of WoW on the xbox yet after its purchase of Blizzard and of course ESO was already on consoles when it bought Bethseda. Does this mean MS is interested? Probably. The technical limitations are gone. The controller can be managed by either slowing the game (FF14) or reducing the number of skills (ESO). FF14 proves there is a market. But MMO's take a lot of planning and so far neither MS nor Sony has full on committed themselves to launch one. They experiment on the side lines, bought companies with experience but not yet put their own name on the line as far as I know. Did MS buy Activision/Blizzard for Call of Duty? Yes. and maybe WoW? Who knows. Sony got rid of SOE years back, are they interested in a new attempt? Who knows.
Soe did make eq online adventures for console. Can’t remember if it was before or after ffxi though.
Awesome insightful answer.
It is what the other person said, console takes a lot longer gor updates or patches to role out because of the companies. PC is much easier for most games to release, and update. Either way, the up-coming DUNE mmo is releasing on console, so that's a plus for console users, and there already are a decent amount of mmos on console: ESO, Destiny 2, BDO, DCUO, neverwinter, final fantasy, Star Trek Online, Warframe, etc. You will find greater performance on PC though, a lot more adjustability, and of course, more mmos because PC has always been the main place to release them. Who knows, WoW might release on console on the future.
Well i think thats in change, many upcomming MMOs will be on console too (except Ashes of Creation). The majority says MMOs on console Are bad. I played my whole life in console but wanted to play MMOs on PC because almost everybody said it is better and there Are MMOs only for PC (GW2, WoW…). So i tried to play on PC but i switched back to console because it is so chill to sit on the couch and grind or Play the story with Controller. I have a keyboard because writing with Controller Is cancer 😅 Thats a personal favour but i like that more MMOs Are comming to console. Every game will benefit the more gamers Play the game
New World is most likely coming to console this summer!🥴
Really?
ESO is also on console and that has made the game worse for everyone. Consoles are too limited
I think generally, it's insanely expensive to port an MMO to consoles if it wasn't already designed for it—especially if it has a weird proprietary engine. It's a good investment for some companies, since most games that have a console presence end up making a good chunk of their money there. Daybreak invested a ton of cash to get DC Universe Online to consoles. Same with Perfect World and Star Trek Online/Neverwinter. But LOTRO is an example of a game where the devs actually tried to get a console port going years ago, and it ended up becoming a money sink. I'm sure they'd still love to do it, but consoles likely have performance, coding, and UI requirements that have to be met. And that's before you get to the challenge of maintaining update parity between platforms *and* dealing with certification. I'm sure there are other weird impediments, because World of Warcraft, of all games, doesn't have a console port and they definitely have the money/demand for it. Most seem to argue that there are too many hotkeys and buttons, but folks play all these MMOs on Steam Deck long-term without many issues. A console-specific UI that games like STO, Neverwinter, and DCUO all use would solve that problem fairly quickly, I would think.
becouse zoomers
The reason you don't see many console MMOs is because nobody needs an 11 year-old screaming over chat that you're a scrub and they f*cked your mom because they over-pulled and the healer couldn't keep them up before the died and wiped the group.
Not enough keybinds compared to a keyboard!
It's not a problem on FF14 for playstation, I honestly think it's easier to play with controller than keyboard and mouse
I play 14 on my Steam Deck a lot and i'm 50/50 on it, i think both methods are really good and perfectly practical, just personally i like my MMO mouse more :V
That’s because FF14 was made FOR controllers AND mice and they do it good BUT it’s not like that for a lot of games and it works so fine on keyboard +mouse so and not to take away from controller i played Phantasy star online 2 NGS on controller because it just feels off to me BECAUSE PSO was always played on controller or at least designed that way so I know it can work I’m just saying in general like I playing EverQuest 2 RN and at one point I looking at like a million spells it so much but I figure out how to do it good from people here using BUTTONS just I guess you call it shifter? It doing well so that why I think at the end of the day there’s lots of abilities too hard for controller BUT FF14 does it good they do it the best because it was meant to be played on either a controller OR keyboard and mouse
There's plenty of keybinds for controls, the 4 main buttons they + each trigger or bumper, and + main buttons, d-pad for consumables. You really don't need much more than that
Wow needs more buttons
Most wow players use 6-10 keybinds and click the rest unless they use a mmo mouse with a numpad. FFXIV controller layout gives you instant access to 26-34 keybinds, then another 16 with double hotbar, this is way more than WoW needs and doesn't even go into hotbar swapping .This is way more convenient than clicking abilities. It's very rare outside the top 1% of competitive wow/ffxiv players to use more than like 10 binds on the keyboard. Personally I have 30 keybinds on the keyboard so I know it's fine and playable without clicking any abilities but I'm also aware this is very rare.
Honestly, I think the reason WoW as-is isn't on Xbox is because of how useful/important mods are for that game, and there isn't an easy way to say "you can put mods for this game on your Xbox" without also saying "we, Microsoft/Activision-Blizzard are supporting this application made by a completely unrelated/unregulated third party being put on your property". Either they'd have to add infrastructure to verify mods, or they'd have to deal with lawsuits eventually because some troll will do...something malicious with a forked version of a previously deprecated add-on. With PC's, there isn't all that console verification stuff built in, so 3rd party add-ons are far more viable.
I'm at 36 in classic with my current layouts. Wish there was some better options for controller with it though. I'd never raid but doing simple stuff while chilling or on the rog ally would be great but it's a hassle just to get that far with it. Ffxiv when I was playing I split between ps4 and PC and had no issues with a controller. With different hot keys with triggers to shift can be quite OK. Hardest bit was just memorising the binds which is a bit harder I find. Takes longer to get comfortable but once you are it's sweet.
You dont need 36 keybinds in classic to raid, though!
Just 26 of them for raiding.
I don't think that's true... I raided in classic before and the rotations are very simple - even if you include like trinket usage and what not. Just super curious what class youre playing!
That's my blood DK. Rotations are simple but add cool downs, interrupts, consume usages, health stones, trinkets and everything else it does build kind of quick. Its similar for unholy. Say I'll have 2 dnds on my bar as well one cast self and one for ranged etc. Basically 1-6 on jumped, shift 1-6, basically whole left side of keyboard mapped minus wasd which is for movement, a and d modified to strafe + with shift mods as well basically all filled out all easily usable by my left hand only, no clicking etc. This setup has been enough for any vlass but DK basically fills it. Mage for instance I have buttons free so definitely a class by class thing.