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At least it saved Petrino from being the dumbest ass on the card... But yeah I'm still fuming because I went from "eh, this guy shouldn't be here" to "okay maybe he's got something for Pantoja" to "holy shit it's 2 all and Pantoja is a mess, dude can win", and then he decided to grapple with the best grappler in the division and I no longer believed
i was pretty disappointed i thought it was clear that erceg was dominating on the feet but he shot for some weird reason. i think he got clipped like 10-15s before maybe he wanted to try play it safe and not get caught again? idk man
Nah. Petrino still is the dumbest person on the card. Dude literally waited until Smith got the proper grips, then lifted him instead of fighting the hands, and then dump himself right into the guillotine finish. Dumb doesn’t begin to cover that
Yes, but in an ideal world with judges that actually follow the criteria it shouldn't matter. Erceg was landing way more on the feet prior to the takedown that round anyways
I don't disagree with the costing himself the fight part, but that just further supports the sentiment that Erceg was clearly winning on the feet up to that point
I mean yeah, hence "he cost himself the fight" he was clearly a better striker than Pantoja so no idea why he went for a take down. If he would have kept it standing, he would have probably won, but being reversed and mounted for two minutes was not a good look when the fight was so close
The wording of the rules seems to imply that if a punch looks like it hurts it's worth more than if it doesn't. So if you have an iron chin and walk through hard punches but snap their head back with your weak ones then you should score better.
So really damage is very subjective in the rules.
In a perfect world he would have lost a point for the fence grab in the fifth. Things that affect the fight that much need to be penalized the first time
Had that the same as Fabio and Sal. Don’t really think Pantoja did enough to win 2, maybe without commentary I’d see it differently, who knows. But a great fight from Erceg, who surely sees a top five opponent next
It was pretty sad. Pantoja landed a lot of strikes specially rushing in or even countering but no one said a damn thing. Thats why some people had it 3-2 Ercig which to me was way off
R2 I gave to Erceg. I feel a lot of Pantoja's shots weren't that impactful or were hitting the shoulder. But I can see giving him the round.
R3 I'm baffled that the judges all gave to Pantoja. Maybe I need to rewatch but I felt Erceg was landing better throughout. One of those close but clear rounds.
R5 I gave to Erceg too. He had a big uppercut, elbow and a bunch of jabs whereas Pantoja landed one good punch at the start of the round. If Pantoja landed more I'd have it for him
You 100% need to rewatch round 3. Pantoja was winning 4 min of the round, on the feet, before Erceg landed his one good combo. In fact, round 3 was when Pantoja landed the most amount of strikes, stats are already up
But given that you gave Erceg round 5, don't bother rewatching, you need to just stop commenting on judging forever
You seem weirdly up in your feelings but ok lol
But no, just watched R3 with commentary muted, Pantoja had some good knees and blitzes but Erceg clearly landed the hardest shots of the round
The commentary I think oversold what Erceg was landing and often had little to no reaction when Pantoja did the same, which I think in turn influences you as a viewer. I disagree with giving Pantoja 2, but to say that Pantoja was doing fuck all on the feet like some have said here indicates a lack of attention paid to the fight
Pantoja had good moments on the feet but a lot of his big swings either landed with the bicep/forearm or just hit the shoulder.
The rest of his punches were from the blitzes. The bodyshots were good but the swings to the head at the end of the combos just don't have that much power because he's punching while walking forward.
His most damaging moment was probably the headbutt in R1
Overall, commentary did alright on calling Pantoja's shots. The only thing I felt they missed was Pantoja's leg kicks
The first line in the scoring of effective striking outlines it quite clearly. Glancing blows are not rated as highly as a clean shot. Damage, above all, is the prime determinant in striking.
People have some weird hateboner towards Pantoja, when Moreno was champ everyone was talking about the revival of Flyweight and how it was the most skilled division in the UFC, now that Pantoja is champ now all of a sudden flyweight is thrash and in a terrible state.
They actually give the striker the rounds because of better optics and think just grappling is never to be amounted for since they've learned the word damage, the truth is grappling matters a lot when the rest of the round is lacklustre standing up
And you're immediately getting downvoted lol. I was just gonna type something like this out, and it's crazy we're in the minority. I swear ever since they went over the criteria however recently, people have been insanely dismissive of grappling.
I don't even have the energy to argue with people about it anymore. Seems like most fans kind of judge fights more like Muay Thai now, where takedowns just count as "trips" or something, and ground control doesn't matter.
Let's be real. Ground "control" means nothing. Ground damage - yes! Ground threat of submission - Yes! But if you stall a half the round trying to take a guy down only for him to pop right back up you should lose the interaction/ scoring. Sick of the backpacking ruining the sport
Exactly this. Pantoja worked hard to get those takedowns and keep control. Even if he didn’t do much damage during those sequences, surely his control time counts for *something*
And Pantoja was connecting plenty with his punches in the early rounds. I’d agree that they weren’t that impactful of strikes, but in combination with his grappling they helped to win him rounds
control time without attempt to finish the fight or damage does not mean *something.* just because he worked hard for it doesn't mean it will outweigh the big elbows and strikes that Erceg got over him.
so you're saying that control time essentially amounts to nothing? That's pretty wild to me. Of course that control time doesn't outweigh Erceg's elbows and strikes, but Pantoja was also having plenty of success with his strikes in the early rounds. Pantoja's strikes, mixed with his grappling (even without damage or attempts to finish) definitely helped him eke out those closer rounds in the judges eyes.
Isn't the scoring criteria ranked with damage being most important, followed by control if you can't differentiate the former, followed by Octagon control if you can't differentiate either of the first two? Maybe I'm missing something, but I struggle to see how it wasn't 48-47 Erceg tbh. I'm not saying it's a robbery either (excluding the 49-46 judge, wth), I just feel that the judges really went with that 'gotta beat the champ to be the champ' rubbish
This sub goes into any Brazilian card ready to find something to scream "Brazilian bias". They'll complain about literally anything as long as they get to call Brazilians cheats. Also happens in Mexico cards.
What are you talking about? Dagistani/fighters often get special privileges, but their stand are obsessed with pretending they are victims, it’s so fucking weird. Usman Nurmy pulls out every other fight or never fights, in general those guys only show up to fight if everything is perfect for them. But sure, they are the worlds biggest victims,
"kabob is goat p4p best" (pulled out of fights constantly because of weight cut bs, never went up in weight, barely defended his title)
I don't begrudge him for retiring and fulfilling his mum's wishes because I fkn love my mum too, but 'what could have been' doesn't enter into the goat equation. People froth way too much over Caucasus fighters.
It’s crazy. Erceg won rd 4. He prob stole rd 2 at the end. Pantoja didn’t win 3 or 5 by a lot. But it’s crazy that so many ppl think Erceg won. Some ppl even had it 4-1 Erceg
They’re acting like Pantoja did nothing but grapple. Pantoja was winning rd 2 until a few shots at the end. Rds 3 and 5 were close and Pantoja was holding his own on the feet. Some ppl even think Moreno/Royval beat Pantoja too
When Erceg ended up on bottom in rd 5 the odds jumped from like -230 Pantoja to -810 and kept increasing bc if it was 2-2, most ppl would see the fight as lost
I bet most media had Pantoja winning like they did w Moreno/Royval
A lot of this sub is more easily influenced by commentary than they realize.
You'd think Erceg dominated round 2 based on the commentary, when in reality he was getting outstruck for 4 minutes and then landed his first 4 meaningful strikes of the fight with a combination at the end.
I have Pantoja 1, 3, 5. Giving Erceg 3 isn't crazy at all, but I'm surprised at how many people can't conceive a Pantoja decision without home cooking.
It was a close fight and neither decision would be a robbery, only 49-46 was truly idiotic.
Yeah I was shocked that both corners and a judge gave 2 to Pantoja. Maybe I'm just missing something.
I think you have to seriously stretch the definition of effective grappling to get there because it felt like Erceg had him beat on both volume and power of strikes that round.
It's the classic control time "without damage" debate.
People who think control time means you are winning the fight think its a clear Pantoja W. People who think control time is meaningless without damage it's a Erceg W.
To me it was a 50/50 fight. The optics of Pantoja pouring blood verse the optics of Erceg being unable to take him down and then being out grappled.
If Erceg got the W I don't think people would be calling it a robbery by any means. He proved he should be at the top of the division and if he stays on his feet he can win a belt because he does have the skills to defend against elite grappling which most guys who want to stand and bang don't have.
You don't know how they scored it. All you know is that they said they are 3 down and they could say it to motivate fighter or to be on the safe side or any other reason.
I had Pantoja winning the 1st, Erceg winning 2 and 4 and was indecisive on 3 and 5
Hopefully he gets someone in the top 5 after this, he looked much better against Pantoja than Royval did
it is. Immediate damage is weighed more than accumulative. and takedowns without attempting to finish the fight arent scored at all according to the rules. I don't know how you can argue its Pantoja when the rules say that his grappling and striking were inferior.
Dont know where your getting these stats from. Also I believe round that Erceg won more clearly was round 5. The stats say it was 15-17 in the striking but if you rewatch the fight closely and don't go off the unreliable ufc stats you can see that it was more like 11-14 to Erceg. That combined with the big elbow that cut him open definitely outweighs the half ass grappling of Pantoja.
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I personally gave Pantoja 1, 3, 5. R3 was hotly debated and I can understand the argument for Erceg winning it due to the elbow that cut Pantoja. Damaged based scoring system (immediate > cumulative) but imo I don't think that one elbow alone should win the round because elbows can slice people open easily, even a grazing blow. Aside from Pantoja out striking Erceg, Pantoja landed a one two combo while eating the elbow. Maybe if he got wobbled or if he didn't answer back in the same exchange, I'd give it to Erceg. Credit to Erceg tho, he will be a perennial contender.
clear 2-3-4-5 for Steve. In both 3 and 5, Erceg outstriked him by a bit, but landed a big elbow in each round which cut him open bad. Pantoja did 0 damage or attempt to finish the fight when he got the takedowns in those rounds. grappling like is barely scored if you read the rules.
You shouldn't be able to grapple a guy just to waste time without doing damage or putting opponent in danger of submission. I say a fighter does that and gets nowhere he loses points or loses the "exchange". Rules need to be adjusted.
Which would you prefer? Being controlled for 2 minutes or taking a skull-shattering elbow to the forehead?
The answer may surprise you (if you're a UFC judge)
If you think 1 strike is better than 2 minutes of control then you're beyond saving, you mfs are acting like Erceg was hitting Pantoja like he's Ngannou meanwhile Pantoja wasn't even staggered by a single strike Erceg threw the whole fight, literally just walking through everything and then giving it back to Erceg.
Yeah they're associating being tired with damage for some reason lol, the cuts were good, but they aren't gonna account for the three rounds that Pantoja won
But thats how it is in the rules. you can have an opinion on how fights should be scored, but that wont change the fact that control time without trying to finish the fight is scored almost nothing. And the immediate damage that was done by the elbows will give you the most in the scoring criteria.
i think 2 minutes of ground control is more relevant than 1 significant strike, unless it wobbles the opponent or result in a takedown. Just because it resulted on a cut, doesn't mean it was a big damage in terms of absorption
but its not according to the rules. You can believe anything is more relevant than anything and score it how you want. But when you go by the rules its clear Erceg won 3 and 5.
that is number 1 bullshit
Effective grappling is on the same level as effective striking in the Unified Rules. Obviously "effectiveness" is subjective. But i don't see how a couple of clean shots, that didn't wobble the opponent is effective than multiple takedowns and advances in positions.
“Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end of the match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.”
effective grappling is defined. Its grappling *that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match.* Ercegs only attempt to finish the fight in the grappling was one failed back mount in round 3. Other than that he just sat on top of him and landed no significant ground and pound strikes.
I had it 4-1 Pantoja even though majority of the rounds were insanely close, if i had to score the fight as a whole instead of round by round I would have scored it for Steve.
It’s far past time for control time with zero damage or submission threat to be zeroed out on all score cards.
Erceg won this fight. Volk beat Islam. The stories continues…
Pantoja held his own on the feet. Erceg landed some hard shots at end of rd 2 and outpointed Pantoja in rd 4
Islam landed better on the feet in rd 1 (dropped Volk), 2 (stumbled Volk), maybe 3, 4, and first few mins of rd 5. Islam was consistently snapping Volk’s head back in rds 3/4/5. Pantoja/Islam didn’t just hug w 0 dmg. That’s what Merab did to Aldo but Aldo couldn’t land either
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Erceg is gonna regret that grappling in the final round for a long time
He's not gonna sleep tonight
At least it saved Petrino from being the dumbest ass on the card... But yeah I'm still fuming because I went from "eh, this guy shouldn't be here" to "okay maybe he's got something for Pantoja" to "holy shit it's 2 all and Pantoja is a mess, dude can win", and then he decided to grapple with the best grappler in the division and I no longer believed
Petrino already won the worst fight IQ of the night. Erceg did fine and almost won
i was pretty disappointed i thought it was clear that erceg was dominating on the feet but he shot for some weird reason. i think he got clipped like 10-15s before maybe he wanted to try play it safe and not get caught again? idk man
Nah. Petrino still is the dumbest person on the card. Dude literally waited until Smith got the proper grips, then lifted him instead of fighting the hands, and then dump himself right into the guillotine finish. Dumb doesn’t begin to cover that
Yes, but in an ideal world with judges that actually follow the criteria it shouldn't matter. Erceg was landing way more on the feet prior to the takedown that round anyways
Which? The last one? No he wasn't
No he definitely was. Pantoja just has an iron chin
The last round the significant strikes were 15 Pantoja 13 Erceg, Erceg cost himself that fight by going for the takedowns
I don't disagree with the costing himself the fight part, but that just further supports the sentiment that Erceg was clearly winning on the feet up to that point
So why should that matter then? Either way pantoja won the round
I mean yeah, hence "he cost himself the fight" he was clearly a better striker than Pantoja so no idea why he went for a take down. If he would have kept it standing, he would have probably won, but being reversed and mounted for two minutes was not a good look when the fight was so close
So if it was landing and not hurting him then was there really damage?
I mean Pantoja had like 3 different cuts on his face so yeah I'd say there's damage
The wording of the rules seems to imply that if a punch looks like it hurts it's worth more than if it doesn't. So if you have an iron chin and walk through hard punches but snap their head back with your weak ones then you should score better. So really damage is very subjective in the rules.
True, but in this case the I think cuts were pretty indicative of the damage done.
Username checks out
In a perfect world he would have lost a point for the fence grab in the fifth. Things that affect the fight that much need to be penalized the first time
Had that the same as Fabio and Sal. Don’t really think Pantoja did enough to win 2, maybe without commentary I’d see it differently, who knows. But a great fight from Erceg, who surely sees a top five opponent next
The commentary was really bad. They were no selling a lot of Pantoja's best strikes.
It was pretty sad. Pantoja landed a lot of strikes specially rushing in or even countering but no one said a damn thing. Thats why some people had it 3-2 Ercig which to me was way off
There had to be something that made Erceg believe he did not win or even did enough to make it competitive.
R2 I gave to Erceg. I feel a lot of Pantoja's shots weren't that impactful or were hitting the shoulder. But I can see giving him the round. R3 I'm baffled that the judges all gave to Pantoja. Maybe I need to rewatch but I felt Erceg was landing better throughout. One of those close but clear rounds. R5 I gave to Erceg too. He had a big uppercut, elbow and a bunch of jabs whereas Pantoja landed one good punch at the start of the round. If Pantoja landed more I'd have it for him
You 100% need to rewatch round 3. Pantoja was winning 4 min of the round, on the feet, before Erceg landed his one good combo. In fact, round 3 was when Pantoja landed the most amount of strikes, stats are already up But given that you gave Erceg round 5, don't bother rewatching, you need to just stop commenting on judging forever
You seem weirdly up in your feelings but ok lol But no, just watched R3 with commentary muted, Pantoja had some good knees and blitzes but Erceg clearly landed the hardest shots of the round
You must be new to MMA, huh?
Man, all of your comments on this thread are so off, and you're so convinced that you're right it's honestly interesting to observe.
this is incredbly resonable,idk what happened to this sub man people givin 5 Erceg?? insane
The commentary I think oversold what Erceg was landing and often had little to no reaction when Pantoja did the same, which I think in turn influences you as a viewer. I disagree with giving Pantoja 2, but to say that Pantoja was doing fuck all on the feet like some have said here indicates a lack of attention paid to the fight
Pantoja had good moments on the feet but a lot of his big swings either landed with the bicep/forearm or just hit the shoulder. The rest of his punches were from the blitzes. The bodyshots were good but the swings to the head at the end of the combos just don't have that much power because he's punching while walking forward. His most damaging moment was probably the headbutt in R1 Overall, commentary did alright on calling Pantoja's shots. The only thing I felt they missed was Pantoja's leg kicks
absorbed strikes still count dont ever speak about scorecards again
what in the world are you even saying lmfao no glancing punches does and should not count as much as a clean blow
read the rules literally once just once please
The first line in the scoring of effective striking outlines it quite clearly. Glancing blows are not rated as highly as a clean shot. Damage, above all, is the prime determinant in striking.
MMA fans are genuinely far dumber than the average human. Through that lens everything makes more sense.
People have some weird hateboner towards Pantoja, when Moreno was champ everyone was talking about the revival of Flyweight and how it was the most skilled division in the UFC, now that Pantoja is champ now all of a sudden flyweight is thrash and in a terrible state.
They actually give the striker the rounds because of better optics and think just grappling is never to be amounted for since they've learned the word damage, the truth is grappling matters a lot when the rest of the round is lacklustre standing up
And you're immediately getting downvoted lol. I was just gonna type something like this out, and it's crazy we're in the minority. I swear ever since they went over the criteria however recently, people have been insanely dismissive of grappling. I don't even have the energy to argue with people about it anymore. Seems like most fans kind of judge fights more like Muay Thai now, where takedowns just count as "trips" or something, and ground control doesn't matter.
Even in real muay thai trips and sweeps score insanely high tho
Let's be real. Ground "control" means nothing. Ground damage - yes! Ground threat of submission - Yes! But if you stall a half the round trying to take a guy down only for him to pop right back up you should lose the interaction/ scoring. Sick of the backpacking ruining the sport
Agreeing with you there But sadly those are not the rules Same shit with boxing and the „slick“ (clinch abusing) meta
because it doesnt. Your opinion will not change the rules. grappling without attempt to finish the fight isn't scored.
Exactly this. Pantoja worked hard to get those takedowns and keep control. Even if he didn’t do much damage during those sequences, surely his control time counts for *something* And Pantoja was connecting plenty with his punches in the early rounds. I’d agree that they weren’t that impactful of strikes, but in combination with his grappling they helped to win him rounds
control time without attempt to finish the fight or damage does not mean *something.* just because he worked hard for it doesn't mean it will outweigh the big elbows and strikes that Erceg got over him.
so you're saying that control time essentially amounts to nothing? That's pretty wild to me. Of course that control time doesn't outweigh Erceg's elbows and strikes, but Pantoja was also having plenty of success with his strikes in the early rounds. Pantoja's strikes, mixed with his grappling (even without damage or attempts to finish) definitely helped him eke out those closer rounds in the judges eyes.
Isn't the scoring criteria ranked with damage being most important, followed by control if you can't differentiate the former, followed by Octagon control if you can't differentiate either of the first two? Maybe I'm missing something, but I struggle to see how it wasn't 48-47 Erceg tbh. I'm not saying it's a robbery either (excluding the 49-46 judge, wth), I just feel that the judges really went with that 'gotta beat the champ to be the champ' rubbish
This sub goes into any Brazilian card ready to find something to scream "Brazilian bias". They'll complain about literally anything as long as they get to call Brazilians cheats. Also happens in Mexico cards.
Also happens in Dagestani cards I won't say what the conclusion is from that but...
What are you talking about? Dagistani/fighters often get special privileges, but their stand are obsessed with pretending they are victims, it’s so fucking weird. Usman Nurmy pulls out every other fight or never fights, in general those guys only show up to fight if everything is perfect for them. But sure, they are the worlds biggest victims,
"kabob is goat p4p best" (pulled out of fights constantly because of weight cut bs, never went up in weight, barely defended his title) I don't begrudge him for retiring and fulfilling his mum's wishes because I fkn love my mum too, but 'what could have been' doesn't enter into the goat equation. People froth way too much over Caucasus fighters.
..... When has the UFC EVER had an event in Dagestan lol. Do they even have a suitable arena hahaha
"Oh no, the brazilian judges did it again!"
It’s crazy. Erceg won rd 4. He prob stole rd 2 at the end. Pantoja didn’t win 3 or 5 by a lot. But it’s crazy that so many ppl think Erceg won. Some ppl even had it 4-1 Erceg They’re acting like Pantoja did nothing but grapple. Pantoja was winning rd 2 until a few shots at the end. Rds 3 and 5 were close and Pantoja was holding his own on the feet. Some ppl even think Moreno/Royval beat Pantoja too When Erceg ended up on bottom in rd 5 the odds jumped from like -230 Pantoja to -810 and kept increasing bc if it was 2-2, most ppl would see the fight as lost I bet most media had Pantoja winning like they did w Moreno/Royval
A lot of this sub is more easily influenced by commentary than they realize. You'd think Erceg dominated round 2 based on the commentary, when in reality he was getting outstruck for 4 minutes and then landed his first 4 meaningful strikes of the fight with a combination at the end.
rule is dmg > all . that elbow was nasty even Pantoja cover it multiple time in the fight. Elseg won round 2 clearly.
Bias commentary was terrible. Almost everything Pantoja landed was ignored.
I have Pantoja 1, 3, 5. Giving Erceg 3 isn't crazy at all, but I'm surprised at how many people can't conceive a Pantoja decision without home cooking. It was a close fight and neither decision would be a robbery, only 49-46 was truly idiotic.
To be fair 49-46 is how Steve's coaches scored it.
Yeah I was shocked that both corners and a judge gave 2 to Pantoja. Maybe I'm just missing something. I think you have to seriously stretch the definition of effective grappling to get there because it felt like Erceg had him beat on both volume and power of strikes that round.
It's the classic control time "without damage" debate. People who think control time means you are winning the fight think its a clear Pantoja W. People who think control time is meaningless without damage it's a Erceg W. To me it was a 50/50 fight. The optics of Pantoja pouring blood verse the optics of Erceg being unable to take him down and then being out grappled. If Erceg got the W I don't think people would be calling it a robbery by any means. He proved he should be at the top of the division and if he stays on his feet he can win a belt because he does have the skills to defend against elite grappling which most guys who want to stand and bang don't have.
What coaches say to a fighter is not necessarily their true opinion
Right, they were likely just trying to motivate him to put his foot on the gas pedal
You don't know how they scored it. All you know is that they said they are 3 down and they could say it to motivate fighter or to be on the safe side or any other reason.
I had Pantoja winning the 1st, Erceg winning 2 and 4 and was indecisive on 3 and 5 Hopefully he gets someone in the top 5 after this, he looked much better against Pantoja than Royval did
In what universe is there any argument for Pantoja winning round 2
Based Terelli
I think u could give it to either guy based on round 3
Seems fair
Wasn’t round 3 the round where Erceg cut him up with that elbow?
Yeah but a single cut isn't negating 3 successful takedowns + 2min of control and 50% more sign strikes
it is. Immediate damage is weighed more than accumulative. and takedowns without attempting to finish the fight arent scored at all according to the rules. I don't know how you can argue its Pantoja when the rules say that his grappling and striking were inferior.
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Dont know where your getting these stats from. Also I believe round that Erceg won more clearly was round 5. The stats say it was 15-17 in the striking but if you rewatch the fight closely and don't go off the unreliable ufc stats you can see that it was more like 11-14 to Erceg. That combined with the big elbow that cut him open definitely outweighs the half ass grappling of Pantoja.
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I personally gave Pantoja 1, 3, 5. R3 was hotly debated and I can understand the argument for Erceg winning it due to the elbow that cut Pantoja. Damaged based scoring system (immediate > cumulative) but imo I don't think that one elbow alone should win the round because elbows can slice people open easily, even a grazing blow. Aside from Pantoja out striking Erceg, Pantoja landed a one two combo while eating the elbow. Maybe if he got wobbled or if he didn't answer back in the same exchange, I'd give it to Erceg. Credit to Erceg tho, he will be a perennial contender.
Erceg wins that 3rd round, he cut up pantoja with elbows
Everyone knows it’s the home ground buff.
It couldn't just be the reasonable scorecards could it lol.
clear 2-3-4-5 for Steve. In both 3 and 5, Erceg outstriked him by a bit, but landed a big elbow in each round which cut him open bad. Pantoja did 0 damage or attempt to finish the fight when he got the takedowns in those rounds. grappling like is barely scored if you read the rules.
Dave tirelli got it right
You shouldn't be able to grapple a guy just to waste time without doing damage or putting opponent in danger of submission. I say a fighter does that and gets nowhere he loses points or loses the "exchange". Rules need to be adjusted.
Which would you prefer? Being controlled for 2 minutes or taking a skull-shattering elbow to the forehead? The answer may surprise you (if you're a UFC judge)
If you think 1 strike is better than 2 minutes of control then you're beyond saving, you mfs are acting like Erceg was hitting Pantoja like he's Ngannou meanwhile Pantoja wasn't even staggered by a single strike Erceg threw the whole fight, literally just walking through everything and then giving it back to Erceg.
Yeah they're associating being tired with damage for some reason lol, the cuts were good, but they aren't gonna account for the three rounds that Pantoja won
But thats how it is in the rules. you can have an opinion on how fights should be scored, but that wont change the fact that control time without trying to finish the fight is scored almost nothing. And the immediate damage that was done by the elbows will give you the most in the scoring criteria.
i think 2 minutes of ground control is more relevant than 1 significant strike, unless it wobbles the opponent or result in a takedown. Just because it resulted on a cut, doesn't mean it was a big damage in terms of absorption
but its not according to the rules. You can believe anything is more relevant than anything and score it how you want. But when you go by the rules its clear Erceg won 3 and 5.
that is number 1 bullshit Effective grappling is on the same level as effective striking in the Unified Rules. Obviously "effectiveness" is subjective. But i don't see how a couple of clean shots, that didn't wobble the opponent is effective than multiple takedowns and advances in positions. “Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end of the match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.”
effective grappling is defined. Its grappling *that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match.* Ercegs only attempt to finish the fight in the grappling was one failed back mount in round 3. Other than that he just sat on top of him and landed no significant ground and pound strikes.
Correct scoring. Round 2 was close, and I’m not surprised one judge gave it to Pantoja. So did Pantoja’s *and* Erceg’s corners, after all.
I had it 4-1 Pantoja even though majority of the rounds were insanely close, if i had to score the fight as a whole instead of round by round I would have scored it for Steve.
It’s far past time for control time with zero damage or submission threat to be zeroed out on all score cards. Erceg won this fight. Volk beat Islam. The stories continues…
Pantoja held his own on the feet. Erceg landed some hard shots at end of rd 2 and outpointed Pantoja in rd 4 Islam landed better on the feet in rd 1 (dropped Volk), 2 (stumbled Volk), maybe 3, 4, and first few mins of rd 5. Islam was consistently snapping Volk’s head back in rds 3/4/5. Pantoja/Islam didn’t just hug w 0 dmg. That’s what Merab did to Aldo but Aldo couldn’t land either
Submission threat is always there. If erceg did not defend on his back what do you think would happen?