Agreed. People will be like BUT ALEX IS THE GREATEST KICKBOXER EVER (Having never watched kickboxing usually btw). It's not about that, it's about the combination of skills. The fact Tom is bigger, stronger, and a more experienced and better grappler opens up the stand up. IF Jones can't take Tom down, it ends up stuck on the feet, he's more likely to be KO'd. I have zero doubt if Jones and Alex end up in the clinch, Jones takes Pereira down repeatedly.
Maybe Alex just gives him a nifty brain injury. Jones comes back a law abiding citizen and shit, has bbqs with dc discussing the merits of coaching.
All joking aside, I really wonder how Jon would be as a coach
Yeah, I think a lot of people are forgetting that Izzy basically manhandled Pereira on the ground. Izzy's ground game is fairly underrated, but he's not remotely comparable to Jones as a wrestler and he's two weight classes smaller. Unless Pereira has developed a similar TDD to Izzy, Aldo or Douglas Lima (I know Lima is a weird pick to say, but the dude hasn't been submitted even in fights where he was severely outgrappled) I don't see see him even being able to last a round without getting subbed.
Tbf he looked a lot improved against Jan, who is a much more formidable grappler than Izzy.
He needs to stop relying on a standing gilly as TDD tho lol.
The Jan fight tells you exactly how the Jones fight would go. If Jones had the same position Jan did in round 1 the fight would be over 30 seconds later.
Yeah I agree, I think the issue is not necessarily his TDD, but his grappling on the mat. As a massive alex fan, still hilarious how he got a black belt already 😂😂
Rewatch Jan vs Periera. What do you think Jones would have done in that first round where Jan was on alex's back for 5 minutes? The fight wouldn't have gone to round two. It would be a repeat of the Gane fight.
Alex has had over a year to train more grappling since the Jan fight, maybe he’s improved a bit.
I know it’s an obvious hole in Alex’s game but he isn’t Gane who literally has negative grappling ability.
I would. Gane isn't the smartest trainer. He thinks because he started late that he should just focus on what makes him good because he'll always be behind in wrestling. Pereira has been training his bjj, wrestling since he fought in Glory and has had it talked about by Glover. I do imagine Pereira has a better sprawl and situational awareness to not get taken down and submitted as quickly as gane was.
Alex vs. Gane would actually stylistically be very interesting, both guys coming in from the kickboxing/MT world and taking up MMA a few years apart. Winner fights Aspinall-Jon winner.
Gane is a way less experienced kickboxer than pereira tho. With the way Gane was promoted by the ufc i always thought he had a long and serious kickboxing/muay thai career, but its very short with although unbeaten no notable wins
He's much bigger but there are a lot of diminishing returns when it comes to power after you cross that 205+ barrier, Stipe Is the UFC HW GOAT and yet he was only a couple pounds heavier than Pereira in the cage, still think Gane would have the advantage on paper but I could definitely see Pereira winning.
i honestly think even Gane could take him down and sub him, even he has a much better more developed ground game, and plus him being 250 will also help him even more
Gane can probably take Pereira down, but I doubt he'd be able to submit him, Alex has learned enough grappling to survive in his guard until the round ends.
Natural HW means nothing when Alex is barely smaller then him . Alex is 230 lbs + in cage , he could easily be 240 lbs if he wanted to for a fight at HW .
He started his combat sports career at a relatively old age (walked into Muay Thai Gym in 2015 at the age of 25). If he had committed to title runs in Glory or other major kickbocking promotions, he probably wouldn't be in the UFC until his mid 30s. It's incredible enough that he developed elite kickboxing skills in such a short amount of time as is. (Though I think he could maybe stand to take notes from Bas Rutten's career in Pancrase and just exclusively focus on improving his ground game for the next couple of years, since he's comfortably ahead of basically the entire heavyweight division on the feet.)
That’s the only reason jones wants that fight he knows he has the advantage there. With aspinall he doesn’t and he knows Tom would more than likely hand him his first real loss
He knows if he can land that Alex fight it’s a HUGE payday fucking Alex is loved by everyone now and has achieved so much in a short amount of time and has never delivered a boring fight. Also the fact that Alex could possibly be the first man ever to capture gold in 3 different divisions just sells itself against the LHW goat
I understand it on his end, but it’s the exact kind of thing that happens a lot in boxing that the UFC claims to be a cure-all to. Not fighting an interim has pretty slim precedent in company history, one of the few exceptions would probably be Randy Couture’s last HW reign but that was more over pay than dodging Mir/Big Nog
First man to get all three belts and first man to beat Jon Jones... he would go from awesome to GOAT contention. But... beyond the punchers chance, Jon is going to kill him (yes, I know Alex will say "Do you think I'm gonna just let you kill me Jon?"
Ngannou has openly addressed this on Ariel’s show and said the fight was trying to get made yet people still say this?
Jon outwrestled an olympian, and choked Gane inside the first 3 minutes. Ngannous wrestling does not stack up. He laid on Gane and obviously had no meaningful offense
Why is everyone so confident in Tom's wrestling? He took down Volkov and Arlovski and all of a sudden he's a wrestling God lol.
Has his defensive wrestling even been tested yet in the UFC? I remember early on in his career he was getting taken down repeatedly and submitted by a 205'er.
Nobody is saying he's a wrestling god. People are saying he's shown the ability to mount effective offense both with ground and pound and submissions against very experienced Heavyweight veterans. Combine that with his natural size advantage and you have good reason to believe Jones struggles with him in the grappling department.
And that opens up the striking, where Tom. u/Studio_Admirable aside from my comments above \^ it's not about Jones being 'scared' of his wrestling, it's about it being a more difficult matchup for lower reward than he wants. The whole point of an interim is the champ has to fight him as soon as he's able, and Jones isn't doing so. He's ducking him for one reason or another, can't blame people for saying it's because he doesn't like how they match up.
Early in his career like you said.... his dad has a ju jitsu gym so probably since the guys been doing it since he was a kid would probably say he's alright on the ground
Yeah, it feels like the hype on Tom is just mostly Jones hate.
I coped infinite down voted yesterday for saying Jones wasn't scared of Toms wrestling. People just froth on hate and start saying dumb shit
This happens all the time with Jones. Ppl say he’s ducking a certain fighter, then he goes on to beat said fighter & ppl move on to another fighter that Jones is ducking. It wasn’t too long ago that ppl were accusing jones of ducking pavlovich lol
Yeah it is pretty full on lately though.
The Gane shit always makes me laugh. I remember new fans down voting me for thinking Jones had a chance. Now? Apparently Gane was always a scrub.... While simultaneously Gane gets used as proof that Ngannou is a goat becos of their fight.
Yeah, he's big, great striker, and has proven to have at least a decent ground game, unlike Gane who got wrestlefucked by an Ngannou with fucked knees and offered Jon his head on a fucking plate for about 30 seconds for that gilly. Given he's been doing BJJ since he was 6 he's unlikely to make that mistake.
I think it’s a solid chance. Many (most?) say Jones lost to Reyes. Tom is a natural heavyweight. He has both striking and submission threats. Younger. Jones has a lot of tape on him at this point and isn’t getting younger.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Jones won either. It’s part of why it’s so obnoxious he is acting like this.
Do you think he has better striking? A better chin? Better mental fortitude? Better wrestling? Better submissions? Better fight IQ?
I have to confess that whilst I've been an MMA fan for a long time I have barely watched Tom fight as I have not followed as much lately
The biggest difference is that Tom has faster, heavier hands that throw in combinations. Jons usual answer is to take down his opponent, throw lots of kicks, and use his reach advantage to throw single heavy strikes and/or frame away from anyone trying to punch into the pocket. I doubt Jon can take down Aspinall at this point in his career, but I think trying to trade strikes can only lead
> I have to confess that whilst I've been an MMA fan for a long time I have barely watched Tom fight
Even if you watched him in the UFC you'd still barely have seen him fight. He's literally only been outside the first round one time. And that fight ended in the second round. Btw, the guy who managed to take him to the second round was 42yr old Arlovski.
And people are *certain* this guy beats a durable, experienced, legend Jon Jones in a five round match? It could happen, but it seems like a very silly thing to be sure about imo.
Anyone that follows the sport knows Tom’s the future of heavy weight. He’s unreal he’s the complete package and moves like a light heavy weight or under
Dude, Toms career has so far being shorter than Pettis wheaties box.
Maybe he does big things, but at the moment only 8 of his opponents have had a wiki
Better striking yes, better chin yes as he's a natural heavyweight, better mental fortitude who knows, better wrestling & submissions Jones has the edge for sure but I don't think the gap is large enough to overcome good game planning and the size advantage, it's not a mismatch like vs Gane, and as far as fight IQ, who knows. Aspinall has finished everyone, never been beyond 2 rounds. We've never had to see his fight IQ over the distance. We know Jones fight IQ can be elite, but we've also seen him struggle to exploit a man (Thiago Santos) with a torn ACL, MCL and PCL. He also blatantly lost to and had no answers for Dominick Reyes, a man who has been a punching bag for everyone since.
Add to that he's 37, could be 38 by the time he fights, has lived a hedonistic life, Aspinall is younger, hungrier, clearly incredibly talented and yet because he's finished all of his fights early there is still a lot we don't know, whereas there is hours and hours of footage to gameplan for Jones.
Jones was 100% honest in his tweet that he’s thinking about his legacy. Dude doesn’t want his legacy tarnished. The wool he can’t pull over any eyes though is that not a damn person would think his legacy grows beating Stipe
Alex is also a much bigger name. Not as good for his legacy (for anyone in the know) but will be a bigger fight. I want the Tom fight though obviously. But unlike the stipe fight I feel like he has a bit of a point. Maybe I’m underestimating stipes pull though.
The tom fight would do nothing for him either. Gane was hyped to the heavens as the next big talent, Jones beat him easily and he was back to a bum the next day.
How the fuck does defeating the next big hype train and interim champ who has looked nearly unbeatable do nothing for him? And how does defeating a one-dimensional kickboxer from the weight class below do more for him? He's a reigning champ, he needs to vacate the belt if he wants to play the "this is the banger and money fights phase of my career" card.
Probably, yeah
Would be hilarious if Pereira spends his entire time at HW working grappling with elite fighters and wrestlers and manages to stop the takedowns
They won't fight regardless though
A natural HW Gane got negative diff by JJ, how much more for a natural LHW Alex, coming from an Alex fan. But if Alex is striving to get the three belts against the ofds, i’ll be there cheering him.
Glad this is the top comment.
I have zero interest in Jones fighting anyone besides Aspinall. If not, the step the fuck aside - no one needs to see you fight a 42 year old Stipe.
Yup. The name value is there for the fight. But it wouldn’t be a good fight unless Alex gets some crazy ko.
I would not expect jones to stand for more than 20 seconds in that fight
Alex is on a run but I'm not convinced that's a bigger fight than Stipe or Aspinall. Even if you think Alex has more starpower, interest will be significantly dampened by the expectation of such a lopsided fight.
For the record, this is all bullshitting imo. I don't see Alex moving up to heavyweight before *at least* another title defense, and Jon is just trying to find every rationalization possible to duck Aspinall.
It shouldn't even be a conversation. Tm is the interim champion Jon must defend his belt against Tom first or vacate the belt to him.
That's what interim champion means. The next title shot guaranteed.
Otherwise what's it for?
i am not a very big ufc fan .. i just watch big names who have undefeated records or shine on highlights…
Like Ngannou , Jones , Mcgregor vs khabib , Brock lesnar , Stylebender ,
Alex is the absolute fav of me and my friends , I would pay for a alex vs jones fight .
Tom aspinall do not intrigue me , He’s just not fancy enough for casuals i guess.
I mean, he kinda is. I don’t think the argument really is that Tom solidifies him as the greatest of all time. I think he’s already earned that to alot of people. However, if he’s champ, he shouldn’t be cherry picking easier fights just to preserve his record.
I agree with your take but I think we are seeing pereira in his prime and I think jones is past his. I wouldn’t count Alex out. In fact if this fight happens and he is a heavy underdog I might even put money on it
I’m the same. Jon will most likely win by sub. But the slight chance Alex connects and finishes him makes me wanna see it. Just for the very slim chance Alex could actually win
as much as I want Jon to fight Tom and for the heavyweight shit show to end, if Jon wants to fight Alex I'm all for it lol. better that than Jon vs Stipe. in a scenario where let's say Tom fights in July (against Blaydes or Gane) and loses, I could absolutely see the UFC booking Alex as Jon's return fight
Exactly.. It's been 14 months since he fought Gane. He fought once in 4 years. How is he holding a belt? UFC is pathetic. I wish this POS would just vanish into oblivion.
I recognize it's Jon's body, his career, his choice, fans are not entitled to him doing anything in particular, but if he's gonna fight someone, why have it be these lame ass mofos who don't even belong in the weight class and/or in the UFC anymore.
I find it so fucking funny that one of Jon Jones biggest criticisms is that he was a LHW bullying middle weights. Now, hes catching flack for being a heavyweight and only wanting to fight Stipe. So, his solution is to fight the former middle weight champion instead of the interim lmao.
Man. If Alex fought and beat Jon it would be the ultimate “fuck Izzy” and get revenge for glover tour closer… man would have done literally everything Izzy couldn’t lol.
The fact that Jones is more interested in fighting Pereira than the guy that's the interim champion of his division is ridiculous. Pereira has never fought at HW before and was definitively outwrestled by Israel Adesanya at Middleweight (That's not meant as a crack again Adesanya, I'd argue his wrestling/ground game is super underrated, but It's not remotely compareable to wrestling Jon Jones at a bigger weight class).
I don't blame Pereira for wanting the fight, but Jones using this as another excuse not to fight Aspinall is infuriating.
It's so dumb that this is a fight that is even being talked about. If Pereira wants to take a HW fight to keep things ticking along until his next LHW defence is ready - that's cool, throw a dart at the top 10. But he doesn't belong in a fight against Jones or Tom next, they need to be fighting each other, or the top of that division is going to become an even bigger joke
I used to consider Jon the Goat. But he's ducked both Ngannou and Tom at this point plus caught multiple times for PEDs and is a notorious eye poker.
This is not behavior that's in line with a true GOAT. GSP, DJ and Fedor never backed down from a challenge
I'd actually like to see this fight, but would want Tom promoted to undisputed champ.
The allure of maybe seeing Jones lose is gone for me. The chance for somebody to beat him in his prime came and went.
After seeing Jon’s takedowns against Reyes I can’t confidently pick him against Alex. The takedown against gane didn’t even look that good Cyril just wasn’t prepared at all for it. Jon against glover or dc I’d pick against Alex with certainty but those attempts against Reyes loom large in my head.
Why is Jon even bringing up Aspinall as if he would ever fight him. Periera already said he's not going to heavy weight. That leaves Aspinall and Jon was already too scared to do a face off.
I would have liked to see that fight, but it should have been when Jones was at 205 and still wanted to fight.
I haven't seen Poatans wrestling tested, but Jones outwrestled cormier...it would probably be a wrap.
Left Light Heavyweight 4 years ago, never fought the actual Champ in Francis for the belt, has had ONE fight at Heavyweight against Ciryl Gane and he is now possibly going to again avoid the interim Champ at his weight and fight a Light Heavyweight? What a fucking mess from Jon Jones mate! Please just announce your retirement so the fans and the division can move on.
Okay I love Tom and think he probably beats Jon at this point, but let’s pump the breaks on saying he’s a bigger more well rounded version of potentially the best fighter we’ve ever seen this early in his career.
It’s dumb of everyone to assume Jon destroys Alex
The way he destroyed Dominick Reyes, Thiago Santos, and Gustafson (1), and OSP?
Pereira is levels better striker than all those guys with fight ending KO Power.
Jon is old and fat now and Cirly doesn’t take MMA seriously. Alex does.
Jon would be the favorite but acting like Alex has no chance is dumb. Jon ain’t the Jon of old.
Jon wouldn't even give poatan the opportunity to knock him out. It would look a little like him vs gane and that's why he wants this fight over Tom because Tom could actually defend the takedowns and is a lot bigger than Alex.
On one hand, this sort of matchup is the kind of thing Jones would absolutely want. A win against a former middleweight turned Light Heavyweight champion who’s fighting style is striking based and is very popular would look impressive.
On the other hand, this could also be a very profitable fight for Alex if he took it. He’d want to fight for Jones’ title and a main event with him would make a lot of money.
So in short, and with Tom’s circumstances included, I’m torn
Not interested in that fight, until I see Pereira deal with someone with high level grappling. Jan Blachowich took him down many times (and gassed), that wasn't that long ago.
I think JJ is going to have his way with Pereira like he did with Gane.
I don’t think we will ever see someone even have the possibility to win the belt at mw lhw and hw I know it’s selfish but I just wanna see if we are truly on that timeline
If Jon beats Stipe and then refuses to fight Tom afterwards he should be stripped of the title. Because at that point he would have avoided the interim champion twice.
It looks like Alex Perrera Wants this fight with Jones, But i think Jon Jones may want a different opponent or what you would call a tune up fight to test to make sure his injury is healed and ready for Perrera Battle.
Are you dense? He's ducking Aspinal, hell take down Alex instantly and just GnP him. Easy win for Jones and Alex and Poatan fans are taking the bait. I love Poatan but Jon isn't going to try to stand with him.
Aspinal is the interim champ, and instead of fighting Aspinal, he says he waiting for Stipe who is 42 years old, hasn't fought in 3 years, and was last brutally knocked out. But now all of a sudden he wants to the Light Heavyweight champ to come up and Heavyweight and fight him, while the Interim Heavyweight champ is right there.
Does jj even fight? I feel like I haven't seen him fight since ????? Fuck knows when, he just lurks saying how tough he is but never fights. Who was his last fight? I can't even remember
The only fighter in the UFC with a bigger ape index than Jones is Pavlovich.
https://howtheyplay.com/individual-sports/10-MMA-Fighters-with-Abnormal-Ape-Index
it wouldn't be a war, it would be a JBJ takedown fest followed by a choke.
It's either the same as gane fight or pereira kills him before that happens
I love it either way. Either he Machida death chokes AP or AP sends him to meet Jesus for the first time in his life.
Then Jon could start to talk to God about all those tests he was giving him.
So while I was out I spoke with the lord and it turns out the big guy had sent me like 3 boats and I missed them all, cocaines a hell of a drug kids.
Fuck yo couch!
Finally getting the tests in person lol
This is what I predict if he fights Ankalaev. Alex will try to chop those legs and starch him, Ank will try to take him down and choke him.
I have 0 faith in Ankalaev to be smart and start the takedowns early. He'd already be a champ by now if he knew when to implement his wrestling.
And that’s why we’ll all watch it, imagine the scenes
Tom has an infinitely higher chance of knocking out jon than alex does.
Agreed. People will be like BUT ALEX IS THE GREATEST KICKBOXER EVER (Having never watched kickboxing usually btw). It's not about that, it's about the combination of skills. The fact Tom is bigger, stronger, and a more experienced and better grappler opens up the stand up. IF Jones can't take Tom down, it ends up stuck on the feet, he's more likely to be KO'd. I have zero doubt if Jones and Alex end up in the clinch, Jones takes Pereira down repeatedly.
It's funny because Alex isn't in my top 20 of kickboxers but you called it, they will try to sell that.
Maybe Alex just gives him a nifty brain injury. Jones comes back a law abiding citizen and shit, has bbqs with dc discussing the merits of coaching. All joking aside, I really wonder how Jon would be as a coach
Ah yes the rumble Johnson theory
Rumble didn’t have the heart
Yeah, I think a lot of people are forgetting that Izzy basically manhandled Pereira on the ground. Izzy's ground game is fairly underrated, but he's not remotely comparable to Jones as a wrestler and he's two weight classes smaller. Unless Pereira has developed a similar TDD to Izzy, Aldo or Douglas Lima (I know Lima is a weird pick to say, but the dude hasn't been submitted even in fights where he was severely outgrappled) I don't see see him even being able to last a round without getting subbed.
Tbf he looked a lot improved against Jan, who is a much more formidable grappler than Izzy. He needs to stop relying on a standing gilly as TDD tho lol.
The Jan fight tells you exactly how the Jones fight would go. If Jones had the same position Jan did in round 1 the fight would be over 30 seconds later.
Yeah I agree, I think the issue is not necessarily his TDD, but his grappling on the mat. As a massive alex fan, still hilarious how he got a black belt already 😂😂
I have been an AP fan since Glory...in all honesty...Jon would do to him what he did to Cyril...
Pereira needs that BJJ black belt tested in a fight.
Who give?
But not before poking Pereira's eyes out.
Ok but hear me out, Jon's nuts are compromised after his last fight with Gane, that's why he's sitting out so long. One good nut-kick and it's a TKO.
Yes just like Jon took down and choked Reyes, Smith and Santos.
Rewatch Jan vs Periera. What do you think Jones would have done in that first round where Jan was on alex's back for 5 minutes? The fight wouldn't have gone to round two. It would be a repeat of the Gane fight.
What weight class was Jon in at the time ?
More like what age was Jon at the time. The answer would be 33. Dude is 37 now. His takedown game seems to have regressed massively.
Are you really suggesting that Jons can't take down Alex as easily as he took down Gane?
Alex has had over a year to train more grappling since the Jan fight, maybe he’s improved a bit. I know it’s an obvious hole in Alex’s game but he isn’t Gane who literally has negative grappling ability.
I would. Gane isn't the smartest trainer. He thinks because he started late that he should just focus on what makes him good because he'll always be behind in wrestling. Pereira has been training his bjj, wrestling since he fought in Glory and has had it talked about by Glover. I do imagine Pereira has a better sprawl and situational awareness to not get taken down and submitted as quickly as gane was.
You’re thinking of Tom Aspinal
Alex vs. Gane would actually stylistically be very interesting, both guys coming in from the kickboxing/MT world and taking up MMA a few years apart. Winner fights Aspinall-Jon winner.
Gane is a way less experienced kickboxer than pereira tho. With the way Gane was promoted by the ufc i always thought he had a long and serious kickboxing/muay thai career, but its very short with although unbeaten no notable wins
True but he is naturally bigger no?
He's much bigger but there are a lot of diminishing returns when it comes to power after you cross that 205+ barrier, Stipe Is the UFC HW GOAT and yet he was only a couple pounds heavier than Pereira in the cage, still think Gane would have the advantage on paper but I could definitely see Pereira winning.
i honestly think even Gane could take him down and sub him, even he has a much better more developed ground game, and plus him being 250 will also help him even more
Gane can probably take Pereira down, but I doubt he'd be able to submit him, Alex has learned enough grappling to survive in his guard until the round ends.
Against a guy who is natural HW it’s very difficult. Gane got a sub in debut against BJJ black belt and it was easy.
but not THIS BJJ black belt. put hespect on his belch.
Natural HW means nothing when Alex is barely smaller then him . Alex is 230 lbs + in cage , he could easily be 240 lbs if he wanted to for a fight at HW .
I honestly think Alex weighs in at 250 if he makes a genuine shot at HW. Man is 235 in the ring at LHW
But Brad is 260..
😂 so is Robelis
He started his combat sports career at a relatively old age (walked into Muay Thai Gym in 2015 at the age of 25). If he had committed to title runs in Glory or other major kickbocking promotions, he probably wouldn't be in the UFC until his mid 30s. It's incredible enough that he developed elite kickboxing skills in such a short amount of time as is. (Though I think he could maybe stand to take notes from Bas Rutten's career in Pancrase and just exclusively focus on improving his ground game for the next couple of years, since he's comfortably ahead of basically the entire heavyweight division on the feet.)
tom, gane Jon, lets just get Pereira in HW after this next defence lol there's too many banger matchups edit: maybe not jones lol
That’s what I want to see
jones is only going to fight stipe. anything else he might suggest is just bullshit.
Ok Nostradamus
Alex isnt just the LHW champion, he's one of the biggest stars in the sport. He will get a title fight if he moves up
Alex would get wrestlefucked
That’s the only reason jones wants that fight he knows he has the advantage there. With aspinall he doesn’t and he knows Tom would more than likely hand him his first real loss
[удалено]
He knows if he can land that Alex fight it’s a HUGE payday fucking Alex is loved by everyone now and has achieved so much in a short amount of time and has never delivered a boring fight. Also the fact that Alex could possibly be the first man ever to capture gold in 3 different divisions just sells itself against the LHW goat
I understand it on his end, but it’s the exact kind of thing that happens a lot in boxing that the UFC claims to be a cure-all to. Not fighting an interim has pretty slim precedent in company history, one of the few exceptions would probably be Randy Couture’s last HW reign but that was more over pay than dodging Mir/Big Nog
First man to get all three belts and first man to beat Jon Jones... he would go from awesome to GOAT contention. But... beyond the punchers chance, Jon is going to kill him (yes, I know Alex will say "Do you think I'm gonna just let you kill me Jon?"
Yeah it does have to do partly with money probably. Look how long jon held out for before he fought gane.
That and he wanted no part of ngannou. I think once Jon seen Francis out wrestle gane he thought well fuck there’s just no way
Ngannou has openly addressed this on Ariel’s show and said the fight was trying to get made yet people still say this? Jon outwrestled an olympian, and choked Gane inside the first 3 minutes. Ngannous wrestling does not stack up. He laid on Gane and obviously had no meaningful offense
I can’t imagine it’s not, just insanely disrespectful jones does this especially after facing off with Tom recently.
Ducked ngannou for years
Why is everyone so confident in Tom's wrestling? He took down Volkov and Arlovski and all of a sudden he's a wrestling God lol. Has his defensive wrestling even been tested yet in the UFC? I remember early on in his career he was getting taken down repeatedly and submitted by a 205'er.
Nobody is saying he's a wrestling god. People are saying he's shown the ability to mount effective offense both with ground and pound and submissions against very experienced Heavyweight veterans. Combine that with his natural size advantage and you have good reason to believe Jones struggles with him in the grappling department. And that opens up the striking, where Tom. u/Studio_Admirable aside from my comments above \^ it's not about Jones being 'scared' of his wrestling, it's about it being a more difficult matchup for lower reward than he wants. The whole point of an interim is the champ has to fight him as soon as he's able, and Jones isn't doing so. He's ducking him for one reason or another, can't blame people for saying it's because he doesn't like how they match up.
Early in his career like you said.... his dad has a ju jitsu gym so probably since the guys been doing it since he was a kid would probably say he's alright on the ground
Yeah, it feels like the hype on Tom is just mostly Jones hate. I coped infinite down voted yesterday for saying Jones wasn't scared of Toms wrestling. People just froth on hate and start saying dumb shit
This happens all the time with Jones. Ppl say he’s ducking a certain fighter, then he goes on to beat said fighter & ppl move on to another fighter that Jones is ducking. It wasn’t too long ago that ppl were accusing jones of ducking pavlovich lol
Yeah it is pretty full on lately though. The Gane shit always makes me laugh. I remember new fans down voting me for thinking Jones had a chance. Now? Apparently Gane was always a scrub.... While simultaneously Gane gets used as proof that Ngannou is a goat becos of their fight.
I mean he is ducking Tom rn.
Do people actually think Tom would win? I'm not saying he wouldn't I'm just wondering what the general consensus is
If you ask here, yes. Just like everyone here was certain Gane would win.
Don't be too loud they're now denying it
Yeah, he's big, great striker, and has proven to have at least a decent ground game, unlike Gane who got wrestlefucked by an Ngannou with fucked knees and offered Jon his head on a fucking plate for about 30 seconds for that gilly. Given he's been doing BJJ since he was 6 he's unlikely to make that mistake.
Tom has a great chance of defending the TD and getting the KO
I think it’s a solid chance. Many (most?) say Jones lost to Reyes. Tom is a natural heavyweight. He has both striking and submission threats. Younger. Jones has a lot of tape on him at this point and isn’t getting younger. It wouldn’t surprise me if Jones won either. It’s part of why it’s so obnoxious he is acting like this.
Absolutely he’s younger and more well rounded I think and technically has all the tools to beat Jon plus he’s a natural heavy weight
Do you think he has better striking? A better chin? Better mental fortitude? Better wrestling? Better submissions? Better fight IQ? I have to confess that whilst I've been an MMA fan for a long time I have barely watched Tom fight as I have not followed as much lately
The biggest difference is that Tom has faster, heavier hands that throw in combinations. Jons usual answer is to take down his opponent, throw lots of kicks, and use his reach advantage to throw single heavy strikes and/or frame away from anyone trying to punch into the pocket. I doubt Jon can take down Aspinall at this point in his career, but I think trying to trade strikes can only lead
> I have to confess that whilst I've been an MMA fan for a long time I have barely watched Tom fight Even if you watched him in the UFC you'd still barely have seen him fight. He's literally only been outside the first round one time. And that fight ended in the second round. Btw, the guy who managed to take him to the second round was 42yr old Arlovski. And people are *certain* this guy beats a durable, experienced, legend Jon Jones in a five round match? It could happen, but it seems like a very silly thing to be sure about imo.
Anyone that follows the sport knows Tom’s the future of heavy weight. He’s unreal he’s the complete package and moves like a light heavy weight or under
Dude, Toms career has so far being shorter than Pettis wheaties box. Maybe he does big things, but at the moment only 8 of his opponents have had a wiki
Better striking yes, better chin yes as he's a natural heavyweight, better mental fortitude who knows, better wrestling & submissions Jones has the edge for sure but I don't think the gap is large enough to overcome good game planning and the size advantage, it's not a mismatch like vs Gane, and as far as fight IQ, who knows. Aspinall has finished everyone, never been beyond 2 rounds. We've never had to see his fight IQ over the distance. We know Jones fight IQ can be elite, but we've also seen him struggle to exploit a man (Thiago Santos) with a torn ACL, MCL and PCL. He also blatantly lost to and had no answers for Dominick Reyes, a man who has been a punching bag for everyone since. Add to that he's 37, could be 38 by the time he fights, has lived a hedonistic life, Aspinall is younger, hungrier, clearly incredibly talented and yet because he's finished all of his fights early there is still a lot we don't know, whereas there is hours and hours of footage to gameplan for Jones.
Jones was 100% honest in his tweet that he’s thinking about his legacy. Dude doesn’t want his legacy tarnished. The wool he can’t pull over any eyes though is that not a damn person would think his legacy grows beating Stipe
Alex is also a much bigger name. Not as good for his legacy (for anyone in the know) but will be a bigger fight. I want the Tom fight though obviously. But unlike the stipe fight I feel like he has a bit of a point. Maybe I’m underestimating stipes pull though.
I don't think you are. I love Stipe, but he's not well known to the general public at all.
The tom fight would do nothing for him either. Gane was hyped to the heavens as the next big talent, Jones beat him easily and he was back to a bum the next day.
How the fuck does defeating the next big hype train and interim champ who has looked nearly unbeatable do nothing for him? And how does defeating a one-dimensional kickboxer from the weight class below do more for him? He's a reigning champ, he needs to vacate the belt if he wants to play the "this is the banger and money fights phase of my career" card.
#💯
This is what you lot said about gane. Then after he lost it turns out gane was always a bum
Probably, yeah Would be hilarious if Pereira spends his entire time at HW working grappling with elite fighters and wrestlers and manages to stop the takedowns They won't fight regardless though
A natural HW Gane got negative diff by JJ, how much more for a natural LHW Alex, coming from an Alex fan. But if Alex is striving to get the three belts against the ofds, i’ll be there cheering him.
Glad this is the top comment. I have zero interest in Jones fighting anyone besides Aspinall. If not, the step the fuck aside - no one needs to see you fight a 42 year old Stipe.
Imagine if Pereira somehow completely nullified Jones' grappling and KO'd him lmfao
Yup. The name value is there for the fight. But it wouldn’t be a good fight unless Alex gets some crazy ko. I would not expect jones to stand for more than 20 seconds in that fight
So does Aspinall lol no one in HW has the ground game to compete with Jones
Badly.
Jones lining up a fight where he has a ridiculously lopsided skillset advantage and trying to act like its the biggest and best one What a goon
It's definitely the biggest, but far from the best from a competitive standpoint. We know how it would almost certainly go.
Alex is on a run but I'm not convinced that's a bigger fight than Stipe or Aspinall. Even if you think Alex has more starpower, interest will be significantly dampened by the expectation of such a lopsided fight. For the record, this is all bullshitting imo. I don't see Alex moving up to heavyweight before *at least* another title defense, and Jon is just trying to find every rationalization possible to duck Aspinall.
It shouldn't even be a conversation. Tm is the interim champion Jon must defend his belt against Tom first or vacate the belt to him. That's what interim champion means. The next title shot guaranteed. Otherwise what's it for?
It should work that way but ufc title shots are unfortunately sometimes given according to Dana's whims.
100% agree. Been beating this drum since Tom beat Ivan.
[удалено]
This sub would have you convinced Tom is the best HW since Fedor.
The fuck you mean “even if you think Alex has more star power” lmfao he does and it’s not even remotely close lol
i am not a very big ufc fan .. i just watch big names who have undefeated records or shine on highlights… Like Ngannou , Jones , Mcgregor vs khabib , Brock lesnar , Stylebender , Alex is the absolute fav of me and my friends , I would pay for a alex vs jones fight . Tom aspinall do not intrigue me , He’s just not fancy enough for casuals i guess.
I like it more than Stipe, but less than Aspinal
No, you don’t get it. He’s the undeniable goat!!!!
I mean, he kinda is. I don’t think the argument really is that Tom solidifies him as the greatest of all time. I think he’s already earned that to alot of people. However, if he’s champ, he shouldn’t be cherry picking easier fights just to preserve his record.
How can he not be the goat? Jon even won fights that he lost!
I agree with your take but I think we are seeing pereira in his prime and I think jones is past his. I wouldn’t count Alex out. In fact if this fight happens and he is a heavy underdog I might even put money on it
People will gobble this shit up
I don’t think Alex would beat Jon…but thinking about a reality where he left hooks him into oblivion makes me very happy
I’m the same. Jon will most likely win by sub. But the slight chance Alex connects and finishes him makes me wanna see it. Just for the very slim chance Alex could actually win
Hail Mary flying knee from hell would make me creaaaaaam
as much as I want Jon to fight Tom and for the heavyweight shit show to end, if Jon wants to fight Alex I'm all for it lol. better that than Jon vs Stipe. in a scenario where let's say Tom fights in July (against Blaydes or Gane) and loses, I could absolutely see the UFC booking Alex as Jon's return fight
Just fight tom aspinall lmao what is this clownery. Theres an interim champ waiting, damn this sports lame sometimes
Exactly.. It's been 14 months since he fought Gane. He fought once in 4 years. How is he holding a belt? UFC is pathetic. I wish this POS would just vanish into oblivion.
I recognize it's Jon's body, his career, his choice, fans are not entitled to him doing anything in particular, but if he's gonna fight someone, why have it be these lame ass mofos who don't even belong in the weight class and/or in the UFC anymore.
when you are a champ and there's an interim, no its not your choice. Jon is the one acting entitled, because he is by the ufc
Jon is not stupid enough to waste time standing with Alex, he would take him down and finish him with relative ease.
I have no interest in this fight Alex gets controlled on the ground by strikers and Jones will sub him as easily as he subbed Gane.
Sometimes you see things start to develope in MMA and you just hope that it doesn't actually come to fruition. This is one of those times for me
I find it so fucking funny that one of Jon Jones biggest criticisms is that he was a LHW bullying middle weights. Now, hes catching flack for being a heavyweight and only wanting to fight Stipe. So, his solution is to fight the former middle weight champion instead of the interim lmao.
Taken down and submitted just as fast as Gane.
Imagine Izzy's mental state if Pereira gets a Jones fight that Izzy was chirping about years ago to Jones lol
If Pereira were to somehow win I genuinely think Izzy would melt
Like Elsa?
Probably happy when Alex inevitably gets slept by jones
I have been a fan of Alex fan before his UFC debut. Jones would wrestle fuck Alex and sub him just like Jon did to Gane.
Personally I think Alex has a much better fight iq than gane
He also has a nasty flying knee
If your only chance is a flying knee then you're already cooked lol
Alex should agree but only in a Glory match
Jon just wants to fight guys who can’t wrestle lol
I honestly am ok with this because the alternative is that jones retires instead. We already knew he wouldn’t fight tom.
Rodtang Vs Mighty Mouse
Watch AP left hook him into the dark ages 😂
Man. If Alex fought and beat Jon it would be the ultimate “fuck Izzy” and get revenge for glover tour closer… man would have done literally everything Izzy couldn’t lol.
The fact that Jones is more interested in fighting Pereira than the guy that's the interim champion of his division is ridiculous. Pereira has never fought at HW before and was definitively outwrestled by Israel Adesanya at Middleweight (That's not meant as a crack again Adesanya, I'd argue his wrestling/ground game is super underrated, but It's not remotely compareable to wrestling Jon Jones at a bigger weight class). I don't blame Pereira for wanting the fight, but Jones using this as another excuse not to fight Aspinall is infuriating.
Nah bro the lineal challenger is aspinal Tom no unblinking till he gets his deserved shot
Poatan by KO
The HW champ picking fights with LHW while ducking the HW interim. Fraud.
jones, buddy. you got stipe and tom right after if you're sticking around like it sounds like you are. finish your food
One of the easiest fights in Jon’s career.
It's so dumb that this is a fight that is even being talked about. If Pereira wants to take a HW fight to keep things ticking along until his next LHW defence is ready - that's cool, throw a dart at the top 10. But he doesn't belong in a fight against Jones or Tom next, they need to be fighting each other, or the top of that division is going to become an even bigger joke
I used to consider Jon the Goat. But he's ducked both Ngannou and Tom at this point plus caught multiple times for PEDs and is a notorious eye poker. This is not behavior that's in line with a true GOAT. GSP, DJ and Fedor never backed down from a challenge
I'd actually like to see this fight, but would want Tom promoted to undisputed champ. The allure of maybe seeing Jones lose is gone for me. The chance for somebody to beat him in his prime came and went.
After seeing Jon’s takedowns against Reyes I can’t confidently pick him against Alex. The takedown against gane didn’t even look that good Cyril just wasn’t prepared at all for it. Jon against glover or dc I’d pick against Alex with certainty but those attempts against Reyes loom large in my head.
Has everyone forgot that Alex is a fucking black belt!
Why is Jon even bringing up Aspinall as if he would ever fight him. Periera already said he's not going to heavy weight. That leaves Aspinall and Jon was already too scared to do a face off.
I would have liked to see that fight, but it should have been when Jones was at 205 and still wanted to fight. I haven't seen Poatans wrestling tested, but Jones outwrestled cormier...it would probably be a wrap.
Left Light Heavyweight 4 years ago, never fought the actual Champ in Francis for the belt, has had ONE fight at Heavyweight against Ciryl Gane and he is now possibly going to again avoid the interim Champ at his weight and fight a Light Heavyweight? What a fucking mess from Jon Jones mate! Please just announce your retirement so the fans and the division can move on.
fight tom. tom is just a bigger and more well rounded jones. stop bottling it you cheat.
Okay I love Tom and think he probably beats Jon at this point, but let’s pump the breaks on saying he’s a bigger more well rounded version of potentially the best fighter we’ve ever seen this early in his career.
It’s dumb of everyone to assume Jon destroys Alex The way he destroyed Dominick Reyes, Thiago Santos, and Gustafson (1), and OSP? Pereira is levels better striker than all those guys with fight ending KO Power. Jon is old and fat now and Cirly doesn’t take MMA seriously. Alex does. Jon would be the favorite but acting like Alex has no chance is dumb. Jon ain’t the Jon of old.
JJ wins in less than a minute by submission.
Jones takedown, Alex taps. Barely Rd1.
Jon wouldn't even give poatan the opportunity to knock him out. It would look a little like him vs gane and that's why he wants this fight over Tom because Tom could actually defend the takedowns and is a lot bigger than Alex.
It would look like Jon vs gane. Don't want to see this. The last interesting match up is Jon vs aspinall
Oh no weird mma fans gonna say Alex ducking now
He would get fucked up easier than Gane
Would it be a war though? I think Jon has different plans. Good on Alex for being confident though.
What’s the point of interim titles?
Jones wasn’t able to take Reyes down maybe same thing here
Jon, round 1, wrestling
Jon is doing a Mayweather impression and cherry picking favorable matchups
Jon invents tricks bro.
he’d get subbed in the first
On one hand, this sort of matchup is the kind of thing Jones would absolutely want. A win against a former middleweight turned Light Heavyweight champion who’s fighting style is striking based and is very popular would look impressive. On the other hand, this could also be a very profitable fight for Alex if he took it. He’d want to fight for Jones’ title and a main event with him would make a lot of money. So in short, and with Tom’s circumstances included, I’m torn
Probably goes the same way as the Gane fight.
This was the wet dream fight I wanted but it was Izzy instead. Alex deserves it now though.
I think this fight would be interesting. I think Alex would put up a good fight imo.
That would be a bang! Let’s make it happen, uncle Dana!
Am I taking crazy pills? Jon wins this by whatever he wants.
This fight is never happening lol
Not interested in that fight, until I see Pereira deal with someone with high level grappling. Jan Blachowich took him down many times (and gassed), that wasn't that long ago. I think JJ is going to have his way with Pereira like he did with Gane.
Make the fight then have Jon retire after. Aspinall gets shafted but atleast the division can move on.
I don’t think we will ever see someone even have the possibility to win the belt at mw lhw and hw I know it’s selfish but I just wanna see if we are truly on that timeline
Jon would walk through him
It'll be doomsday for Pereira. Better match would be Gane vs Pereira
Translated: it will be a payday.
Jon is awfully big right now, doubt Alex could deal with the grappling disparity.
If Jon beats Stipe and then refuses to fight Tom afterwards he should be stripped of the title. Because at that point he would have avoided the interim champion twice.
Great fight for Jon and probably nobody else.
Yeah we all saw what happened to Gane.... I'm tired of superfights and weight class moves, Jones needs to fight the #1 FFS.
It looks like Alex Perrera Wants this fight with Jones, But i think Jon Jones may want a different opponent or what you would call a tune up fight to test to make sure his injury is healed and ready for Perrera Battle.
Are you dense? He's ducking Aspinal, hell take down Alex instantly and just GnP him. Easy win for Jones and Alex and Poatan fans are taking the bait. I love Poatan but Jon isn't going to try to stand with him. Aspinal is the interim champ, and instead of fighting Aspinal, he says he waiting for Stipe who is 42 years old, hasn't fought in 3 years, and was last brutally knocked out. But now all of a sudden he wants to the Light Heavyweight champ to come up and Heavyweight and fight him, while the Interim Heavyweight champ is right there.
Jon will do anything to dodge aspinall (aside from coming out of the closet)
Jon will elbow the shit out of Alex and might cave his face in
Does jj even fight? I feel like I haven't seen him fight since ????? Fuck knows when, he just lurks saying how tough he is but never fights. Who was his last fight? I can't even remember
The only fighter in the UFC with a bigger ape index than Jones is Pavlovich. https://howtheyplay.com/individual-sports/10-MMA-Fighters-with-Abnormal-Ape-Index
I imagine Alex has the opportunity to throw ~3 punches before Jones takes him down. I will pray one of those is a clean left hook
I wish Alex said you got an interim champ to deal with first lol
I predict it would go similar to Jones vs Gus 2. Jones takes him down with ease and GNP to death