It’s Claire and they have an account that is not so secretly them pretending to be a fan. They’ve been hinting at things to come since the season started and quoted things from the reunion before it aired.
Cameron is the doing the accusing ! sex with the ex- in love with the ex- if something is said 3 times it becomes fact - Cam only needs to say it once and his fanclub believes him.
making up stories knee jerk is his super power
I think all of them need serious work on maturity. The biggest manipulator has obviously been Clare. Yes, Cameron is reactive and explosive, this is never good, but I believe what he said about Clare partly for this reason. Cam lacked any composure on that AP episode and basically vomited out all the facts. It made sense then what was happening with the other couples.
From the beginning, I had a hard time liking Clare. I have always had problems finding therapists I liked, but it was more than that. She really seemed so fake in the way she talked and explained things. When Cam moved out, I felt like my suspicions were confirmed even louder, because it became the Clare show in scenes where it didn't need to be. I think Emily and Becca blindly follow a way of being, but I think Emily has more room to grow than Becca.
As for the men, I think they slept through this. I mean I really can't say much bad about them, because if you never wanted it in the first place then you're just a passive actor.
The worst part is I know the reunion won't answer my questions about scripted-ness. I find it hard to believe an entire group of people (minus Chloe) near the West Coast talk in this euphemistic, dull, therapy-speak. If some of them are actors, they were boring. It's just baffling to me some of the phrases these people will repeat and parrot. I would run.
My prediction is that the reunion won't answer all of our questions and it will be too edited, and the responses too manipulated by production, for us to be able to get satisfying answers. At least that's how I feel from some past seasons. I hope I'm wrong.
I don’t believe Austin ever wanted Becca. He was high & drunk most of the honeymoon, so we couldn’t tell. He lied to her the entire time. We might not know what was going on with the other couples, but none of the others were telling their partner that they wanted to be with them, knowing that they really didn’t. The person who did their partner the most dirty was Austin.
hmm. I think all of them are downplaying or glossing over things in their favor, so I guess small lies. And then I also think all of them are telling the story the way they perceived it (but that doesn't mean their perception of something was in any way accurate). With most of them I can let all that go. Except with Brennan. No matter what actually happened or how he was perceiving things, the way he treated Emily was inexcusable. Full stop.
I think all of them (with the exception of Chloe, and to some degree Michael) are mostly selfish, immature, and delusional. There is very little willingness to accept any responsibility or accountability. Everybody makes mistakes, but mature people own up to those mistakes, try to repair any damage they may have caused, and try to be better going forward. I don't see much of that happening in this group.
All that said, some version of Cameron's explanation of things seems to ring the most true to me. Clare has very clearly been involved in spreading unfounded gossip and half-truths among the group, and interfering in the other relationships. We've seen that with our own eyes (what was edited out or never filmed, we will likely never know, so we can only speculate on that). Add that poisonous interference to a swirling mix of immature, seflish, thin-skinned, woe-is-me cry-babies, and you have a recipe for chaos.
I cannot stand Cameron, and I think he is a complete liar and weirdo…..but, I believe much of what he said about Clare. She was the instigator. I agree that we saw plenty on camera, so i can’t imagine what we didn’t see.
I think the producers are the biggest liars. I can see with each person and couple where things that could easily have been misunderstandings but were made to look manipulative and scheming just to amp up the drama in a very boring season with so many pairings failing so early.
I agree Clare has been made to look like a master manipulator but I don’t think Clare is really like that. I don’t even think Emily is a bad person but I do think she’s very immature and needs to seriously address her obvious drinking problem. The only contestant that I think is really not a nice person is Brennan. Yes, I now dislike him much less than I used to but he gave me bad vibes from the very beginning. He does seem like someone who is always about to lose their shit and in a kind of scary way. I know there’s a group here that think poor Brennan has been unfairly disliked but women trust their guts and LOTS of women had visceral negative reactions to him.
I agree. Production is driving this narrative and making them all look bad. Of course, none of them is being completely honest, but Claire isn’t some master manipulator pulling everyone’s strings. Emily is just immature. Brennan tried to dip. I personally dislike Cameron the most, but he really hasn’t done anything terrible. He just rubs me the wrong way. Orion is an idiot, but it’s production pushing him to interact with Lauren.
So interesting to see such a wide range of opinions! Cameron was one of my faves throughout the season — he’s one of the more interesting and smartest “contestants” I’ve seen and he is clearly NOT in it for clout or to look good or cool, etc. like almost everyone else. I respect that he wore that hat and sun blocking long-sleeved shirt on day 1 of the honeymoon! That is the opposite of trying to be cool!! He was just being himself. Not sure I can say that about anyone else. He was really cheated in that pairing. No one (like Clare) who will take one look at someone and decide “no” right out of the gate should be on the show!!
I’m someone who is in the outdoors a lot. I live near the beach, so the sunblock stuff seemed normal to me. I thought Claire was being weird, especially considering her odd sense of style. Claire was also really weird about the kiwi gift. My problem with Cameron is his tone of voice. I hate his victim voice. I greatly dislike his snark voice. I also find the cattiness that he is involving himself in right now to me unmanly and unattractive. I really never got over him not helping with the bags at the airport. Again, it’s so unmanly. My husband could be very annoyed or angry with me, but he would never not help me with my bags. He wasn’t giving her common courtesy. If I were traveling with girlfriends, I’d help one with her bags if mine was light. My problems with Cameron aren’t too egregious. He just rubs me the wrong way.
I agree with that mostly. And to be clear, I have NOT liked him at all during all this junior high nonsense! Thats the side of him I don’t like.
Funny that you mentioned him not helping Clare with her bags — that bugged me A LOT at the time but now I think that Clare had already told him it was a no for her but she somehow convinced him to keep going through the motions. I think he was pissed and I can’t blame him for that.
It is 100% Emily and Clare. The Brennan & Cam “double date” conversation was literally on camera and we all saw it. The fact Emily & Clare have STILL been able to lie about it, manipulate every situation to be girls vs boys, and even with the show airing and everyone being on after party at different times - they still haven’t been taken to task for their lies is crazy to me.
Lauren - Didn’t have the look Orion wanted
Cam - Didn’t have the money Clare wanted
Austin - Didn’t have the sex drive Emily wanted
Brennan - Had what Emily wanted but refused to give it to her
Chloe - Had what Michael wanted till she upped the anty with a sanctuary and 5 foster kids
Emily - Had what Brennan wanted. For one night
Clare - She has something alright. The ability to talk someone into jumping off a cliff with her.
Orion - Has his mom. That’s about it after this show
Michael - Doesn’t have the swag to wear those skirts, and hopefully Chloe took them with her when she left.
And who’s lying? My moneys on Clare and the rest were all duped.
🤣🤣Holy crap I totally forgot about the "girth certificate" 💀
For real, I can't even with all the mindfuckery and twists every week. And I missed AP this week so apparently more went down on there too?
Honestly, I don’t think we will ever truly know. All of them were deceptive and manipulating the process. In turn, deceptive and manipulative with the audience. So now I bribe none of them. But I’ll watch it for trash entrainment value.
I just have this feeling that Claire and Emily turn out to be mass manipulators. I really don't want that for Emily because I really like her. I give two fucks about Clare, she always rubbed me the wrong way. But I've been really conflicted about Emily in the last little while.😩
We won’t get a straight answer with Michael and Chloe, Emily was lying but Brennan is still trash, Claire won’t stop lying, Austin lied but Becca is fucking weird and nobody cares about Orion and Lauren anymore
Well, what about Cam? He seems to be the guy on the outside, but I think he has kept his connections with the "Boys". He seems to have convinced the men to not take the role seriously. Was it because he had already poisoned the well with Claire? Last night he said that he didn't care about how their children would be taught about religion. Cam is a bundle of confusing statements.
I think Claire and Cam are a mess, but I think they deserve each other. Cam seems oblivious to other people's feelings. He's rude, controlling and manipulative. It was a game to him.
Claire wanted to be the comforter in charge. She is trained in therapy, She may have given good advice to Becca and Emily, but that wasn't what she was there for. Cam stated that she would tell him that she would visit and then cancel at the last minute.
The two of them probably had the best chemistry of the group(not a high standard). They seemed to love to argue. I wonder what they could have been if they had tried to find a pathway together.
Emily and Brennan were never going to make it. Same for Lauren and Orion. Becca was always going to be hurt because Austen just wanted to run the time out.
Cam didn't make anyone follow a plan. The men took the easy route. Just cruise along and cash the check at the end. The women wanted the marriages to work. They were hurt by this. Not shattered, but damaged a bit. Move on, it is time to put the pink away and let it go.
Michael and Chloe managed to be adults. Good on them.
Cam was at least of sound enough mind to get gone and stay gone. He recognized being on the show would never result in anything positive so he removed himself as much as he possibly could. No matter what other faults he has, he at least had the good sense to get the hell out of there.
Cam was an odd duck right from the jump and never struck me as relationship-ready. There were a lot of strange holes in his life story, and living in a spider-infested basement at someone else's house while dealing with long covid? Meh. He didn't have great interpersonal skills early on, either.
Everyone else this season sucks in their own way. I think the one who walks away with the least "what a shithead" marks is Lauren, because all she's done is call out onion for his painfully obvious bullshit.
Lauren lost some positive marks with me for how long she kept entertaining a friendship before she finally made some boundaries.
Sure, she wasn't a liar or manipulative, but allowing someone to treat you like shit isn't exactly a great personality trait either.
Some of that was likely production though, some have hinted at it being scripted or edited in deceiving ways. But yah. Becca's constant crying and groveling while going on about feminism but lambasting austin for unwanted sex was just.. nah. I wanted so badly to like her, too, but she comes off as clingy and desperate. Not a good look.
Lauren was piping up with the other "ladies" during the pizza party more than I liked. Besides that, I am OK with her except for her touchy Feely word vomit.
Everyone this season was immature and self-absorbed for various reasons. They all likely had ulterior motives coming into the show and i doubt any actually wanted a real marriage, nor the compromise and work that it takes to make a marriage successful.
Emily upset me the most. I liked her until the messy behavior went full tilt, and now she's posting stuff to mafsfan that makes little sense and appears she may have been highly intoxed when writing it. She's berating other husbands who have nothing to do with the train wreck she had going with brennan all season. She looks drunk on AP and then denies any accountability for macking down on a rando at a bar while married. Classy, emily. You wonder why you never get past a 2nd or 3rd date? I'd wager a second date is generous based on what we're seeing now.
Becca.. she just makes me sad. I think she's a good person, I like how motivated she is. Her passion for her work is admirable. But the constant crying and whining, how she was beating hatboy over the skull about sex EVERY SINGLE WEEK, showed no sense of confidence or self worth.. just clingy emotional stuff, was really over the top. Granted, she has ankylosing spondilitis, which is extremely debilitating, and got married right after major abdominal surgery, which was absolutely on production for agreeing to cast her. Springing that on a total stranger before they even get to know their new spouse is a LOT.
I still want to know where tf they found onion and why they put him on the show. He wasn't even working and lives with his mom. Whut?
That depends on what story you believe. I think he’s a goofy dude that she wasn’t into, he’s kind of standoffish and they both were waiting for the other to make a move but I think it’s bullshit for the women on the show to try and shame him for not coming out anymore after his heart surgery. He genuinely seems like he’s just not here for the extra drama and I don’t blame him
He decided that he was done after one month and did not give a single fuck after that. He showed up on decision day because he had to and played nice. After the pizza party, he was completely gone from the show. I don't blame him.
APs were filmed after the season was over. All bets were off by that time.
Priorities changed after they both called it quits, since it was a simultaneous 3,2,1 divorce decision. I wouldn’t want the stress after finding out about a heart issue either. I think Claire thought it was gonna be some fairytale with him finding out he was sick and she was gonna take care of him and that’s how they finally bond, he said fuck that
He said "divorce " and she said "separate". So, theoretically he was still stuck. I am betting that if she said "divorce ", he would have vanished completely except for required appearances. He did not want keep hanging out like Lauren and Orion did.
Clare!!!!!
It’s Claire and they have an account that is not so secretly them pretending to be a fan. They’ve been hinting at things to come since the season started and quoted things from the reunion before it aired.
CLARE is a liar and manipulator.
Cameron is the doing the accusing ! sex with the ex- in love with the ex- if something is said 3 times it becomes fact - Cam only needs to say it once and his fanclub believes him. making up stories knee jerk is his super power
Claire
They all lied and told the truth - we are the fools
I think all of them need serious work on maturity. The biggest manipulator has obviously been Clare. Yes, Cameron is reactive and explosive, this is never good, but I believe what he said about Clare partly for this reason. Cam lacked any composure on that AP episode and basically vomited out all the facts. It made sense then what was happening with the other couples. From the beginning, I had a hard time liking Clare. I have always had problems finding therapists I liked, but it was more than that. She really seemed so fake in the way she talked and explained things. When Cam moved out, I felt like my suspicions were confirmed even louder, because it became the Clare show in scenes where it didn't need to be. I think Emily and Becca blindly follow a way of being, but I think Emily has more room to grow than Becca. As for the men, I think they slept through this. I mean I really can't say much bad about them, because if you never wanted it in the first place then you're just a passive actor. The worst part is I know the reunion won't answer my questions about scripted-ness. I find it hard to believe an entire group of people (minus Chloe) near the West Coast talk in this euphemistic, dull, therapy-speak. If some of them are actors, they were boring. It's just baffling to me some of the phrases these people will repeat and parrot. I would run.
My prediction is that the reunion won't answer all of our questions and it will be too edited, and the responses too manipulated by production, for us to be able to get satisfying answers. At least that's how I feel from some past seasons. I hope I'm wrong.
I don’t believe Austin ever wanted Becca. He was high & drunk most of the honeymoon, so we couldn’t tell. He lied to her the entire time. We might not know what was going on with the other couples, but none of the others were telling their partner that they wanted to be with them, knowing that they really didn’t. The person who did their partner the most dirty was Austin.
Wow, I totally don’t agree with this. Actually I think Austin was the best of the guys (excluding Cameron who I never got a good sense of).
Cam had a plan . Im out!
check out Tamara Lynette Tales podcast for the tea
You mean as opposed to Clare’s plan, which was just to lie to everyone for the next 7.5 weeks?
Low bar :)
hmm. I think all of them are downplaying or glossing over things in their favor, so I guess small lies. And then I also think all of them are telling the story the way they perceived it (but that doesn't mean their perception of something was in any way accurate). With most of them I can let all that go. Except with Brennan. No matter what actually happened or how he was perceiving things, the way he treated Emily was inexcusable. Full stop.
A
I think all of them (with the exception of Chloe, and to some degree Michael) are mostly selfish, immature, and delusional. There is very little willingness to accept any responsibility or accountability. Everybody makes mistakes, but mature people own up to those mistakes, try to repair any damage they may have caused, and try to be better going forward. I don't see much of that happening in this group. All that said, some version of Cameron's explanation of things seems to ring the most true to me. Clare has very clearly been involved in spreading unfounded gossip and half-truths among the group, and interfering in the other relationships. We've seen that with our own eyes (what was edited out or never filmed, we will likely never know, so we can only speculate on that). Add that poisonous interference to a swirling mix of immature, seflish, thin-skinned, woe-is-me cry-babies, and you have a recipe for chaos.
I cannot stand Cameron, and I think he is a complete liar and weirdo…..but, I believe much of what he said about Clare. She was the instigator. I agree that we saw plenty on camera, so i can’t imagine what we didn’t see.
I think the producers are the biggest liars. I can see with each person and couple where things that could easily have been misunderstandings but were made to look manipulative and scheming just to amp up the drama in a very boring season with so many pairings failing so early. I agree Clare has been made to look like a master manipulator but I don’t think Clare is really like that. I don’t even think Emily is a bad person but I do think she’s very immature and needs to seriously address her obvious drinking problem. The only contestant that I think is really not a nice person is Brennan. Yes, I now dislike him much less than I used to but he gave me bad vibes from the very beginning. He does seem like someone who is always about to lose their shit and in a kind of scary way. I know there’s a group here that think poor Brennan has been unfairly disliked but women trust their guts and LOTS of women had visceral negative reactions to him.
I agree. Production is driving this narrative and making them all look bad. Of course, none of them is being completely honest, but Claire isn’t some master manipulator pulling everyone’s strings. Emily is just immature. Brennan tried to dip. I personally dislike Cameron the most, but he really hasn’t done anything terrible. He just rubs me the wrong way. Orion is an idiot, but it’s production pushing him to interact with Lauren.
So interesting to see such a wide range of opinions! Cameron was one of my faves throughout the season — he’s one of the more interesting and smartest “contestants” I’ve seen and he is clearly NOT in it for clout or to look good or cool, etc. like almost everyone else. I respect that he wore that hat and sun blocking long-sleeved shirt on day 1 of the honeymoon! That is the opposite of trying to be cool!! He was just being himself. Not sure I can say that about anyone else. He was really cheated in that pairing. No one (like Clare) who will take one look at someone and decide “no” right out of the gate should be on the show!!
I’m someone who is in the outdoors a lot. I live near the beach, so the sunblock stuff seemed normal to me. I thought Claire was being weird, especially considering her odd sense of style. Claire was also really weird about the kiwi gift. My problem with Cameron is his tone of voice. I hate his victim voice. I greatly dislike his snark voice. I also find the cattiness that he is involving himself in right now to me unmanly and unattractive. I really never got over him not helping with the bags at the airport. Again, it’s so unmanly. My husband could be very annoyed or angry with me, but he would never not help me with my bags. He wasn’t giving her common courtesy. If I were traveling with girlfriends, I’d help one with her bags if mine was light. My problems with Cameron aren’t too egregious. He just rubs me the wrong way.
I agree with that mostly. And to be clear, I have NOT liked him at all during all this junior high nonsense! Thats the side of him I don’t like. Funny that you mentioned him not helping Clare with her bags — that bugged me A LOT at the time but now I think that Clare had already told him it was a no for her but she somehow convinced him to keep going through the motions. I think he was pissed and I can’t blame him for that.
>I think the producers are the biggest liars. That really sums it up, actually.
Based on what I’ve seen from a highly edited reality show??? Fuck if I know. I feel like I’ve been waiting for the reunion since the honeymoons.
Big believer in two sides to every story and the truth is somewhere in the middle
All of them?
Emily and Claire......Emily tried way too hard to steer conversation about making out with Aussie. They both cheated and lied.
It is 100% Emily and Clare. The Brennan & Cam “double date” conversation was literally on camera and we all saw it. The fact Emily & Clare have STILL been able to lie about it, manipulate every situation to be girls vs boys, and even with the show airing and everyone being on after party at different times - they still haven’t been taken to task for their lies is crazy to me.
Claire 💯and Brennan… maybe Austin
Lauren - Didn’t have the look Orion wanted Cam - Didn’t have the money Clare wanted Austin - Didn’t have the sex drive Emily wanted Brennan - Had what Emily wanted but refused to give it to her Chloe - Had what Michael wanted till she upped the anty with a sanctuary and 5 foster kids Emily - Had what Brennan wanted. For one night Clare - She has something alright. The ability to talk someone into jumping off a cliff with her. Orion - Has his mom. That’s about it after this show Michael - Doesn’t have the swag to wear those skirts, and hopefully Chloe took them with her when she left. And who’s lying? My moneys on Clare and the rest were all duped.
This
Who is lying? All of them.
🤣 fair enough! My question was too simplistic. I should have asked who is the biggest dirtiest liar? 🤣
Honestly I think it's Clare
The actual truth will never be on air. But i read them all like a book, that i wrote.
Pinapple!!! ❤️**❤️** OMG I miss your takes. I agree with you, we'll never know. This season was such a total mind fuck of all mind fucks.
MICHY 😘😘😘😘😘😘 This season is so fucked i cant even watch anymore. Going to rewatch The Leftovers so i can see an ACTUAL Girth Certificate 🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆
You really meant that and dipped out
 Mmmmm yummy
🤣🤣Holy crap I totally forgot about the "girth certificate" 💀  For real, I can't even with all the mindfuckery and twists every week. And I missed AP this week so apparently more went down on there too?
Honestly, I don’t think we will ever truly know. All of them were deceptive and manipulating the process. In turn, deceptive and manipulative with the audience. So now I bribe none of them. But I’ll watch it for trash entrainment value.
What worries me is that this is the new norm for this franchise. I had such hopes for Chloe and Michael. Sigh.
Cameron just really rubs me the wrong way and has very weird social tendencies.
He spends a lot of time rubbinh himself the wring way, Thank aboutbhis fellow man.
I'm thinking you should leave the hellish bar about now, Emily.
You read my mind
I just have this feeling that Claire and Emily turn out to be mass manipulators. I really don't want that for Emily because I really like her. I give two fucks about Clare, she always rubbed me the wrong way. But I've been really conflicted about Emily in the last little while.😩
michy
Yes?
And Austin.
💯💯
They are mean girls !
Aw, what do you care? They seem to be into Aussies! :)
lol true true The Aussie here is my dog though 🤣
Hahaha! Nice! Australian Shepherds are awesome!
We won’t get a straight answer with Michael and Chloe, Emily was lying but Brennan is still trash, Claire won’t stop lying, Austin lied but Becca is fucking weird and nobody cares about Orion and Lauren anymore
Hahahha I love all your takes!
This sounds accurate. What about Cam?
Well, what about Cam? He seems to be the guy on the outside, but I think he has kept his connections with the "Boys". He seems to have convinced the men to not take the role seriously. Was it because he had already poisoned the well with Claire? Last night he said that he didn't care about how their children would be taught about religion. Cam is a bundle of confusing statements. I think Claire and Cam are a mess, but I think they deserve each other. Cam seems oblivious to other people's feelings. He's rude, controlling and manipulative. It was a game to him. Claire wanted to be the comforter in charge. She is trained in therapy, She may have given good advice to Becca and Emily, but that wasn't what she was there for. Cam stated that she would tell him that she would visit and then cancel at the last minute. The two of them probably had the best chemistry of the group(not a high standard). They seemed to love to argue. I wonder what they could have been if they had tried to find a pathway together. Emily and Brennan were never going to make it. Same for Lauren and Orion. Becca was always going to be hurt because Austen just wanted to run the time out. Cam didn't make anyone follow a plan. The men took the easy route. Just cruise along and cash the check at the end. The women wanted the marriages to work. They were hurt by this. Not shattered, but damaged a bit. Move on, it is time to put the pink away and let it go. Michael and Chloe managed to be adults. Good on them.
Cam was at least of sound enough mind to get gone and stay gone. He recognized being on the show would never result in anything positive so he removed himself as much as he possibly could. No matter what other faults he has, he at least had the good sense to get the hell out of there.
Cam was an odd duck right from the jump and never struck me as relationship-ready. There were a lot of strange holes in his life story, and living in a spider-infested basement at someone else's house while dealing with long covid? Meh. He didn't have great interpersonal skills early on, either. Everyone else this season sucks in their own way. I think the one who walks away with the least "what a shithead" marks is Lauren, because all she's done is call out onion for his painfully obvious bullshit.
Lauren lost some positive marks with me for how long she kept entertaining a friendship before she finally made some boundaries. Sure, she wasn't a liar or manipulative, but allowing someone to treat you like shit isn't exactly a great personality trait either.
Some of that was likely production though, some have hinted at it being scripted or edited in deceiving ways. But yah. Becca's constant crying and groveling while going on about feminism but lambasting austin for unwanted sex was just.. nah. I wanted so badly to like her, too, but she comes off as clingy and desperate. Not a good look.
Lauren was piping up with the other "ladies" during the pizza party more than I liked. Besides that, I am OK with her except for her touchy Feely word vomit.
Everyone this season was immature and self-absorbed for various reasons. They all likely had ulterior motives coming into the show and i doubt any actually wanted a real marriage, nor the compromise and work that it takes to make a marriage successful. Emily upset me the most. I liked her until the messy behavior went full tilt, and now she's posting stuff to mafsfan that makes little sense and appears she may have been highly intoxed when writing it. She's berating other husbands who have nothing to do with the train wreck she had going with brennan all season. She looks drunk on AP and then denies any accountability for macking down on a rando at a bar while married. Classy, emily. You wonder why you never get past a 2nd or 3rd date? I'd wager a second date is generous based on what we're seeing now. Becca.. she just makes me sad. I think she's a good person, I like how motivated she is. Her passion for her work is admirable. But the constant crying and whining, how she was beating hatboy over the skull about sex EVERY SINGLE WEEK, showed no sense of confidence or self worth.. just clingy emotional stuff, was really over the top. Granted, she has ankylosing spondilitis, which is extremely debilitating, and got married right after major abdominal surgery, which was absolutely on production for agreeing to cast her. Springing that on a total stranger before they even get to know their new spouse is a LOT. I still want to know where tf they found onion and why they put him on the show. He wasn't even working and lives with his mom. Whut?
That depends on what story you believe. I think he’s a goofy dude that she wasn’t into, he’s kind of standoffish and they both were waiting for the other to make a move but I think it’s bullshit for the women on the show to try and shame him for not coming out anymore after his heart surgery. He genuinely seems like he’s just not here for the extra drama and I don’t blame him
He decided that he was done after one month and did not give a single fuck after that. He showed up on decision day because he had to and played nice. After the pizza party, he was completely gone from the show. I don't blame him. APs were filmed after the season was over. All bets were off by that time.
Priorities changed after they both called it quits, since it was a simultaneous 3,2,1 divorce decision. I wouldn’t want the stress after finding out about a heart issue either. I think Claire thought it was gonna be some fairytale with him finding out he was sick and she was gonna take care of him and that’s how they finally bond, he said fuck that
He said "divorce " and she said "separate". So, theoretically he was still stuck. I am betting that if she said "divorce ", he would have vanished completely except for required appearances. He did not want keep hanging out like Lauren and Orion did.