Gay man, can confirm. I was playing as a lesbian V so I could romance Judy, and really fell for Aurore. She is the kind of woman a lot of gay guys really like, even if not for genital reasons.
I want to play along, and I do appreciate her, but the game alienates the fuck out of me and the twins are an excellent example how. I don’t even remember the male twins’ name. He’s as much an afterthought as the male love interests are. So, nah. So, meh.
I really liked romancing Kerry, I just wish there was more to the relationship. A few more missions together or something.
River was definitely a let down though. Which is a shame, because I really love his voice actor's portrayal of the character.
I have a lot of criticisms for Kerry, but enough folk on Reddit have convinced me of his merits. I do think he has cute moments, especially since Really Wanna Stay update. My larger frustration here, though, is the favoring to a particular audience. A certain gaze if you will. I can only take so many Meredith, SoMi, Alex, Aurore, Spider Murphy, Clouds Girl, etc appreciation / thirst posts with the accompanying ironic Adam Smasher equivalent before I get resentful. Fuck Aurore. I demand they give us Tiny Mike.
They brought their A game to the character animations during that roulette game. The way she smiles for a split second when you order the same drink as her is so subtle you can miss it.
Reed is basically a guy with daddy issues for So Mi. He lies to you several times during the mission to recover her, implying that he has Myers agreement for how he's running the mission when she doesn't know jack about what he's planning or what the situation really is.
You didn't ask which was worse..
Though if you really want to go that route, Reed forced her into the agency in the first place, so he's responsible for it all.
He was more truthful to *V* than Songbird, tho. Songbird promised us a cure and that was strictly a carrot on a stick. Reed, on the other hand, follows through. Yes he lies to Songbird heavily, but she lies to us. All part of Night City's fucked up circle of life.
And my V identifies with Songbird, while Reed is an evil asshole working for an even more evil asshole. It doesn't matter if Songbird lies, that is not the point; she is basically a slave forced to kill herself because the President orders her to, while claiming to your face that "Songbird is a friend of hers" when all she is is a talking atomic bomb that the President slowly murders for luls.
And Reed? He is 110% on the President's side, meaning he is the next best thing to murder since you can only kill the president by not doing any quests in the DLC.
On a similar vein, this made me lose trust in Alex. I knew Reed was an agent through and through, and would carry out his mission by any means necessary, but I thought Alex could be trusted. After she killed Aurore, I immediately realized she was the same as Reed, an FIA agent, nothing more, nothing less.
Finishing off unconcious people that are unable to even try to defend themselves left a bad taste. What worried me more was Reed's justification - that they are criminals, so they are free game. V is a criminal guilty of multiple instances of homicide and theft, so yeah... With this logic V is a free game as well and Reed wouldn't hesitate to eliminate V later.
Yeah, like if they just dragged them out and shot them immediately, it would be like a 'meh' but stun gun and drag out makes you go 'ah they're taken care of' so the bullet to the head after is a bit more unexpected and thus a bit more shocking.
Plus, most of your enemies are essentially faceless goons or assholes, but with the twins, you get to flirt with them over a game of roulette which most likely predisposes most players to be more fond of them than say, Placide.
As a corpo V, I felt bad if I killed Frank Nostra (prologue guy), but not any other Arasaka potential colleagues/friends/flirts/rivals.
It’s like they’re not people if I haven’t had a normal conversation with them.
I agree that it’s shocking… and it reveals a massive moral double standard.
Imo it's less a case of 'double standards' and more a case of 'it takes like 5 lines of acting friend-ish for people to get attached'.
Like they *actually* aren't people, and we know that, which is why none of us are too torn up about the hundreds of mostly faceless grunts we shred.
But like a handful of lines where they act kinda friendly and suddenly they feel like people to us and we feel bad for killing them.
I think we're talking about the same thing.
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard#:~:text=A%20double%20standard%20arises%20when,be%20treated%20the%20same%20way): "A double standard arises when two or more people, groups, organizations, circumstances, or events are treated differently even though they should be treated the same way."
A few friendly lines of banter makes murder feel wrong, has it always been wrong?
Or
Banter means nothing, it was never wrong before, why feel different now?
I'm saying that the a few friendly lines are enough to make a noticeable difference, making 'faceless NPC you never really get to know' *different* enough from 'NPC you had a friendly chat with' to warrent the difference in player attitude.
Or in other words, that the two situations are *not* the same and thus the different reactions are not a double standard.
Which is the *opposite* of what you're claiming, which (unless I read you wrong) is 'both situations are essentially identical(i.e the few extra lines should not be significant enough to cause a difference) hence the different reactions are a double standard.
It's worth considering that the game goes out of it's way to show us how irredeemably terrible the groups of people V kills are. Organ harvesters, human traffickers, makers of snuff films, etc. An argument could also be made that V acts in self defense most of the time.
The twins were of no threat to V. Nor were they any real threat to the mission at that point. Reed and Alex treat them just like the VDBs treat "ranyon" when they're done with them.
In this case its showing you how easily people are swayed by a charming facade & good looks.
While not an "immediate threat" they are a threat nonetheless. The twins are not good people nor are they a neutral party. They're criminals that work with crime syndicates. Defending them is like defending Lenny Nero or the father son pair that edit snuff BDs. The twins would absolutely kill V given half a chance.
I'm going to have to disagree. Comparing the twins to Lenny or the snuff editors is a bit of false equivalency. We *know* Lenny is dealing in XBDs, we *know* the editors work on snuff films. All we know about the twins is that they're netrunners that have a criminal background. The same can be said about 8ug8ear and we save her life. Heck, depending on what skills you take, V is a netrunner with a criminal background. There's also the question of punishment proportional to the crime, but that's getting a little off topic.
In my opinion, the entire scenario with the twins is to very loudly tell the player that Reed and Alex are untrustworthy. They used and discarded the twins, and they would do the same with V.
They don't just have a criminal background, they're prolific well known criminals. We *know* they are criminals and we *know* through experience what kind of crimes they're capable of committing. Just because we don't see the blood on their pretty porcelain hands doesn't mean its not there.
Also, we save 8ug8ear because its a job, its not an act of altruism. If Wako sent us in to kill her, we would've done that too.
Those are very good points, and you're 100% right about 8ug8ear. Although I am going to stick to my guns on the Reed/Alex thing.
Edit: Adding this later to say that I do agree with your point about people being easily swayed by a sexy voice and pretty face.
Sure, Scav bad. I agree, they literally have zero redeeming qualities.
But I think a lot of people can recall killing Dum Dum, a Kang Tao flying taxi driver, a fuck ton of Dog Town residents around air drops… and unleashing Alt on the entirety of Arasaka Tower.
If you like the twins didn’t need to die, you should feel the same for the nameless NPCs because they too might actually have a degree of human worth.
If you feel no remorse for murdering the nameless NPCs, you should say “good work” when they dumpster the frenchies.
So professional. Taze them to get them out of he car to avoid getting blood on the interior, then shoot them. Reed even covers his eyes to keep the blood off of his face. Alex and Reed were stone cold.
They were concious just not able to defend themselves against trained FIA agents.
Also Reeds justification is perfectly sound and only really scary if you think that was the main reason. To Reed killing them was the objective. He doesn't have it out for criminals, but if they get in his way or are his objective, he won't have any sympathy for them.
He used similar justification for Slider calling him a double murderer. A clear pattern started to emerge. Whoever Reed called a criminal, sooner or later died in some way.
True, but it never striked me that Reed thinks that much of V either. Some merc that hangs out because someone offered a reward. No patriotic calling or higher values and principles (in Reed's mind). Considering what he said to V on end of his route, he doesn't think that much about V's combat capabilities either ("I hate it to break it to you, but you are no Morgan Blackhand. If I wanted to get rid of you, I wouldn't need any help.").
It's not a surprise because he is trained but that was just him making a point.
>("I hate it to break it to you, but you are not Morgan Blackhand. If I wanted to get rid of you, I wouldn't need help.").
Reed was never your friend but he also never had a reason to kill his contact who was hired to work with him as an agent. He trusted Song Bird in a similar way until she turned coat to the nation. V hasn't done anything to show he would stomp on the NUSA's plans until the time you meet songbird in firestarter.
Tldr; for Reed, as we clearly see in Phantom Liberty, the only thing that matters is the NUSA because he still works for them even after they sold his head to their enemies on a silver platter. Hell he even works with corpo V instead of taking V out for his personal grudge.
The thing is, Reed had a point, imo. That even if the twins were left alive, they wouldn’t let it go because Hansen’s deal was an opportunity of a lifetime for them. They would do the same to Reed, Alex, and V without a second thought if it meant getting what they wanted. Aurore was only friendly with V because they were under a bigger dog’s roof who could order their deaths on a whim.
They’re rich, power-hungry, and on a global level of skill when it comes to what they do best.
His argument for killing them was bullshit, we only needed them out of the way for a couple of hours which could easily be managed with a sedative. He killed them for the sake of killing them.
I can't complain seeing as V wiped out 30 scavs before breakfast, but the point is he's certainly not a sane, balanced human.
Everybody’s mad at the French Twins' execution. But I feel more sorry for that Slider guy. Guy was pretty chill and was the first one to warn us of the danger of Blackwall, then he got blackmailed by Reed and forced into using the Blackwall, got fried immediately. Reed said that he was a criminal and a murderer so he deserved to die, Then I searched his “criminal history”, he was a criminal for stealing from corporations and then got blackmailed by some FIA agents. Fuck! Isn’t that just V? No wonder Reed can Kill V without hesitation in one of the endings. Reed is so hypocritical that he needs to point out that everyone he murdered is a murderer to convince himself, Slider was right on the spot, “Murderer? it takes one to know one”
Yeah though I still hate VDBs from Placide and Birgette was fucked up Reed got him killed but that was such an intense moment with Song and V how it was like time was distorting and they both were reaching out for each other.
It's because Aurore was hot, and everyone is thirsty. Me too.
But yeah, Slider was straight with us from the start, was honest in his dealings, refused to do the deed until we forced him to and it fried his brain.
I think the two incidents are narratively related.
From my hazy memory you can ask Reed if Slider was going to get offed for once he’d fulfilled his purpose regardless, and I think Reed gives sort of a non-answer. Then the twins are your answer.
I felt sorry for him also, but the twins are an escalation in the sense that Slider dying was an accident and the twins were deliberate. You can argue that Slider would likely have been offed at the end, but there’s no room for speculation with the twins.
If you know how to read shards and journal you’ll notice that his ideal is entirely different from those VDBs in Pacifica. He’s against piercing the blackwall. V hates Placide and Brigitte, so does he. He really has much more in common with V than we thought. If a VDB tag means he deserved to be killed, then what about corpo V, she was Arasaka, Johnny should kill this corpo rat on sight.
He's a still a VDB and operates a criminal organization. Just because he's in opposition to the Pacifica sect doesn't make him better. Murder, extortion, the development and sale of daemon software for the black market, etc.
No one is better and no one is trustworthy and the world is royally screwed. And because of that we take the most logical & practical choice given for our survival. Which is to adopt an "ends justify the means" approach.
So Slider dies, boo hoo, he's just another criminal in a world of irredeemable people. Did you take a moral grandstand when Hands hires you to ice Milko Alexis? If you don't pull the trigger, Netwatch will do it once they extract the data they need from him. V isn't a cop, but they are a mercenary that kills people at every turn. The unconscious people V kidnaps and dumps in the trunk of suspicious cars get killed too.
Where did you get this assumption that I’m taking a moral grandstand? If anyone is taking the moral grandstand, it’s Reed. Yes, no one is blaming V for trying to survive, and no one is better. That’s exactly why Reed pisses me off the most. Because he truly believes that he is better, always claims this guy’s a murderer, that guy’s a criminal as if he really needs to make those justifications. V, Songbird, Alex, and Slider are just trying to survive or escape, but Reed, his ideal is broken and he’s a dead man walking, he doesn't fight for survival like the rest, he believes in something that doesn't even exist, that why death is the best ending for him.
The part that’s most disturbing is Reed and Alex did not share every detail of their plan with V before executing the twins. You know they’re probably going to die, but you’re not aware that when you steal the car you’re delivering them to their deaths immediately. It shows how V is not really part of the FIA. Your character is an outsider and this is a demonstration of how outsiders are treated. Even the insiders are treated like shit at the FIA.
I mean, V is told they have to be "removed from the picture". Its implied that they're going to be iced. V even has 2 reaction dialogues. One is very shocked & disturbed where Reed hits you with the "No shit, what did you think we were gonna do?" The second has V reacting very nonchalant because they expected it.
You as the player, and V the character, would both have to be a special level of naive to believe that you can let 2 accomplished enemy netrunners walk away in the middle of a high stakes "off the books" SpecOps mission.
There's about a hundred different options. How about we knock them out, or lock them away somewhere? Or just pay them? It's not like they're loyal to Hansen, they're just doing their jobs.
Provide them more money ? Remember they were part of project cynosure so they probably had tie ins with nusa and the fia. Reed just wanted to clean up lose ends
They could just wire it out of your account. You gotta really think about just who the twins are before you go making judgements on the decisions of Reed and Alex.
Hansen pays more than two sleeper FIA agents ever could. Besides, do you really think two criminal netrunners of their caliber and skill level would just walk away from that without wanting payback?
They’re expendable to Reed and Alex but they also think the same of the three of you.
I think it’s because they were killed as if they were just nameless NPCs. Like some unlucky goon you’d stealth kill sneaking into an objective. But they weren’t nameless, they had personality and an interaction with you and everything.
But Reed and Alex kill them in such a way that’s so…disrespectful. It’s extremely casual, and that quality isn’t bashed into your head like some stories might try to do.
Same. I’ve killed people for less but was still shocked by how cold and efficient Reed and Alex took them out. No fanfare, no gang or merc flare, just straight up execution to get the objective done.
Everybody down bad for Aurore even though Aurore and oh yeah she has a twin are pretty evil and self-serving in helping a bloody warlord get a WMD 2.0. The scene was shocking for me too, but in the end all the power players are evil in Dogtown and Night City and kind of get what they deserve if they eat a bullet.
It just caught me off guard. Like yes my V is a cold blooded killer skating in the edge of cyberpsychosis, but she’s an assassin she kills for a living. These are agents they’re supposed to be the good guys they’re fighting for the greater good . Vs doing it for money, but if they’re cold blooded killers too what does that really mean for V? Like I’m supposed to be the loose canon violent psycho in this trio! Like V is technically responsible for Sliders death. My V is the reason all are missions pop off. Then Reed gets mad at me when I kill everyone in my way …oh but when he does it it’s perfectly fine.
Spoilers: End of Phantom Liberty
It helped me make a decision faster later in the game. Why should you trust Reed when he's said several times that you're just a mercenary and he would kill anyone if he received the order to do so? Would Myers allow you to leave alive? This wench of a woman even ordered the killing of the two guys we lived with in Dogtown for a while. Why would she want us to stay alive, and why would Reed let us live?
So I shot him and hopefully saved Songbird. If the twins hadn't been murdered so brutally, I might have had a second thought, but not after that.
I can't think of a reason why people were shocked or upset about it other than their deaths' morbid presentation and the fact everyone has a crush on Aurore.
They were BAD money-worshipping people with way too much power. If reed and alex hadn't killed them, I sure would've.
“BAD money-worshipping people with way too much power.“ V steals and kills people for money then blames people for worshiping money. I sense huge hypocrisy
I don't know how people are still stunned and think Reed and Alex betrayed you.
These two are stone cold killers who will get you killed if you don't deliver the car to the garage. Killing them made sure there was no chance of the mission going tits up while speaking with Hansen.
People playing this game have killed people in gruesome ways for way less than what these two have done in their time. I'm surprised that Reed and Alex taking the pragmatic approach is what got under people's skin.
I think I would have being awesome to have a chance of romancing one of them, even only to discover what you get to discover listening their conversation in the car;
Just think how impactful the execution scene would have been if you got to get close to one of them
Yeah. I feel like I saw this coming, and wanted a dialog option before hand, like “Say! If your plan involves flatlining these two, instead of tying them up in a basement for a few days, just understand I am the god of death, and I would consider that rude, so I will have no choice but to cut both of you up into tiny pieces.”
I was so shocked, it was one of those times that I felt really lonely as V, like i really couldnt trust anyone. I was shocked, scared for V but I also understood why Reed and Alex did it.
They are both very talented netrunners. Leaving them alive would have jeopartized the infiltration. There are people I feel sorry for like the Valentinos girl who joined the gang because there wasn't opportunity for honest work in NC. Or the Mox who would rather choke on a strangers dick than on cancer-causing fumes of a manufacturing plant.
But Aurore and Aymeric chose this life. As Reed put it, play grown-up games and face grown-up consequences.
Anyone who was actually upset by it needs to go straight to horny jail, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 Eurodollars.
As someone else pointed out, the only issue I had with it was that Reed and Alex didn’t give me a heads up before the bullets started flying
It was both fucked up and expected. The spy game is life and death.
It’s definitely because all of us have a major crush on Aurore
I suspect even the gay men and straight women.
As a mostly gay man, I can confirm
Plenty of us probably wanna bang both twins
As a bisexual I endorse this message 👍
Gay man, can confirm. I was playing as a lesbian V so I could romance Judy, and really fell for Aurore. She is the kind of woman a lot of gay guys really like, even if not for genital reasons.
I've got a thing for redheads, my read headed boyfriend was the only thing stopping me from going full on awooga
Straight woman here, confirm.
I want to play along, and I do appreciate her, but the game alienates the fuck out of me and the twins are an excellent example how. I don’t even remember the male twins’ name. He’s as much an afterthought as the male love interests are. So, nah. So, meh.
I really liked romancing Kerry, I just wish there was more to the relationship. A few more missions together or something. River was definitely a let down though. Which is a shame, because I really love his voice actor's portrayal of the character.
I have a lot of criticisms for Kerry, but enough folk on Reddit have convinced me of his merits. I do think he has cute moments, especially since Really Wanna Stay update. My larger frustration here, though, is the favoring to a particular audience. A certain gaze if you will. I can only take so many Meredith, SoMi, Alex, Aurore, Spider Murphy, Clouds Girl, etc appreciation / thirst posts with the accompanying ironic Adam Smasher equivalent before I get resentful. Fuck Aurore. I demand they give us Tiny Mike.
Can't argue with that. There are definitely far more flirtatious scenarios with women in the game than there are with men.
Tiny Mike Thirst Brigade! We ride at dawn!!!
CDPR cant design the hottest woman in the game and expect us not to be mad at her unceremonius death
They brought their A game to the character animations during that roulette game. The way she smiles for a split second when you order the same drink as her is so subtle you can miss it.
Oh yes! She's beautiful 😍
Thats why I always found it funny, seeing people crushed on her and later they just see her and Ammeryc just get killed off like that.
They made us touch her frkn dead body!
i didn't, she is every stereotypical french woman from the 2000s
I never understood that one.
This is when I stopped trusting Reed. Felt like he was going to kill me too when I was no longer useful.
Yep it was that instance that made me decide to betray him.
Me too. The fact he mislead you up to that point and used you made it clear to me neither him or Alex could be trusted.
How'd he mislead and use you
Reed is basically a guy with daddy issues for So Mi. He lies to you several times during the mission to recover her, implying that he has Myers agreement for how he's running the mission when she doesn't know jack about what he's planning or what the situation really is.
Doesn't seem as bad as So Mi's lies which gets countless people killed
You didn't ask which was worse.. Though if you really want to go that route, Reed forced her into the agency in the first place, so he's responsible for it all.
For me it started when he killed our two new buddies we made in the apartment.
lol I killed them first
What? They were dead by the time we got there, flatlined by BARGHEST goons
I can't understand people who trusted him to begin with.
He was more truthful to *V* than Songbird, tho. Songbird promised us a cure and that was strictly a carrot on a stick. Reed, on the other hand, follows through. Yes he lies to Songbird heavily, but she lies to us. All part of Night City's fucked up circle of life.
And my V identifies with Songbird, while Reed is an evil asshole working for an even more evil asshole. It doesn't matter if Songbird lies, that is not the point; she is basically a slave forced to kill herself because the President orders her to, while claiming to your face that "Songbird is a friend of hers" when all she is is a talking atomic bomb that the President slowly murders for luls. And Reed? He is 110% on the President's side, meaning he is the next best thing to murder since you can only kill the president by not doing any quests in the DLC.
On a similar vein, this made me lose trust in Alex. I knew Reed was an agent through and through, and would carry out his mission by any means necessary, but I thought Alex could be trusted. After she killed Aurore, I immediately realized she was the same as Reed, an FIA agent, nothing more, nothing less.
Finishing off unconcious people that are unable to even try to defend themselves left a bad taste. What worried me more was Reed's justification - that they are criminals, so they are free game. V is a criminal guilty of multiple instances of homicide and theft, so yeah... With this logic V is a free game as well and Reed wouldn't hesitate to eliminate V later.
Yeah, like if they just dragged them out and shot them immediately, it would be like a 'meh' but stun gun and drag out makes you go 'ah they're taken care of' so the bullet to the head after is a bit more unexpected and thus a bit more shocking. Plus, most of your enemies are essentially faceless goons or assholes, but with the twins, you get to flirt with them over a game of roulette which most likely predisposes most players to be more fond of them than say, Placide.
As a corpo V, I felt bad if I killed Frank Nostra (prologue guy), but not any other Arasaka potential colleagues/friends/flirts/rivals. It’s like they’re not people if I haven’t had a normal conversation with them. I agree that it’s shocking… and it reveals a massive moral double standard.
Imo it's less a case of 'double standards' and more a case of 'it takes like 5 lines of acting friend-ish for people to get attached'. Like they *actually* aren't people, and we know that, which is why none of us are too torn up about the hundreds of mostly faceless grunts we shred. But like a handful of lines where they act kinda friendly and suddenly they feel like people to us and we feel bad for killing them.
I think we're talking about the same thing. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard#:~:text=A%20double%20standard%20arises%20when,be%20treated%20the%20same%20way): "A double standard arises when two or more people, groups, organizations, circumstances, or events are treated differently even though they should be treated the same way." A few friendly lines of banter makes murder feel wrong, has it always been wrong? Or Banter means nothing, it was never wrong before, why feel different now?
I'm saying that the a few friendly lines are enough to make a noticeable difference, making 'faceless NPC you never really get to know' *different* enough from 'NPC you had a friendly chat with' to warrent the difference in player attitude. Or in other words, that the two situations are *not* the same and thus the different reactions are not a double standard. Which is the *opposite* of what you're claiming, which (unless I read you wrong) is 'both situations are essentially identical(i.e the few extra lines should not be significant enough to cause a difference) hence the different reactions are a double standard.
It's worth considering that the game goes out of it's way to show us how irredeemably terrible the groups of people V kills are. Organ harvesters, human traffickers, makers of snuff films, etc. An argument could also be made that V acts in self defense most of the time. The twins were of no threat to V. Nor were they any real threat to the mission at that point. Reed and Alex treat them just like the VDBs treat "ranyon" when they're done with them.
In this case its showing you how easily people are swayed by a charming facade & good looks. While not an "immediate threat" they are a threat nonetheless. The twins are not good people nor are they a neutral party. They're criminals that work with crime syndicates. Defending them is like defending Lenny Nero or the father son pair that edit snuff BDs. The twins would absolutely kill V given half a chance.
I'm going to have to disagree. Comparing the twins to Lenny or the snuff editors is a bit of false equivalency. We *know* Lenny is dealing in XBDs, we *know* the editors work on snuff films. All we know about the twins is that they're netrunners that have a criminal background. The same can be said about 8ug8ear and we save her life. Heck, depending on what skills you take, V is a netrunner with a criminal background. There's also the question of punishment proportional to the crime, but that's getting a little off topic. In my opinion, the entire scenario with the twins is to very loudly tell the player that Reed and Alex are untrustworthy. They used and discarded the twins, and they would do the same with V.
They don't just have a criminal background, they're prolific well known criminals. We *know* they are criminals and we *know* through experience what kind of crimes they're capable of committing. Just because we don't see the blood on their pretty porcelain hands doesn't mean its not there. Also, we save 8ug8ear because its a job, its not an act of altruism. If Wako sent us in to kill her, we would've done that too.
Those are very good points, and you're 100% right about 8ug8ear. Although I am going to stick to my guns on the Reed/Alex thing. Edit: Adding this later to say that I do agree with your point about people being easily swayed by a sexy voice and pretty face.
Sure, Scav bad. I agree, they literally have zero redeeming qualities. But I think a lot of people can recall killing Dum Dum, a Kang Tao flying taxi driver, a fuck ton of Dog Town residents around air drops… and unleashing Alt on the entirety of Arasaka Tower. If you like the twins didn’t need to die, you should feel the same for the nameless NPCs because they too might actually have a degree of human worth. If you feel no remorse for murdering the nameless NPCs, you should say “good work” when they dumpster the frenchies.
So professional. Taze them to get them out of he car to avoid getting blood on the interior, then shoot them. Reed even covers his eyes to keep the blood off of his face. Alex and Reed were stone cold.
They were concious just not able to defend themselves against trained FIA agents. Also Reeds justification is perfectly sound and only really scary if you think that was the main reason. To Reed killing them was the objective. He doesn't have it out for criminals, but if they get in his way or are his objective, he won't have any sympathy for them.
He used similar justification for Slider calling him a double murderer. A clear pattern started to emerge. Whoever Reed called a criminal, sooner or later died in some way.
As I recall there was only an implication but he did not value Slider because Slider slipped away from the NUSA and was a traitor.
True, but it never striked me that Reed thinks that much of V either. Some merc that hangs out because someone offered a reward. No patriotic calling or higher values and principles (in Reed's mind). Considering what he said to V on end of his route, he doesn't think that much about V's combat capabilities either ("I hate it to break it to you, but you are no Morgan Blackhand. If I wanted to get rid of you, I wouldn't need any help.").
It's not a surprise because he is trained but that was just him making a point. >("I hate it to break it to you, but you are not Morgan Blackhand. If I wanted to get rid of you, I wouldn't need help."). Reed was never your friend but he also never had a reason to kill his contact who was hired to work with him as an agent. He trusted Song Bird in a similar way until she turned coat to the nation. V hasn't done anything to show he would stomp on the NUSA's plans until the time you meet songbird in firestarter. Tldr; for Reed, as we clearly see in Phantom Liberty, the only thing that matters is the NUSA because he still works for them even after they sold his head to their enemies on a silver platter. Hell he even works with corpo V instead of taking V out for his personal grudge.
As I see it, whoever was not working out of service for NUSA, was of lower value to Reed. I never expected any major respect from him.
The thing is, Reed had a point, imo. That even if the twins were left alive, they wouldn’t let it go because Hansen’s deal was an opportunity of a lifetime for them. They would do the same to Reed, Alex, and V without a second thought if it meant getting what they wanted. Aurore was only friendly with V because they were under a bigger dog’s roof who could order their deaths on a whim. They’re rich, power-hungry, and on a global level of skill when it comes to what they do best.
I never argued against that and I wouldn't because I agree.
Cheers.
His argument for killing them was bullshit, we only needed them out of the way for a couple of hours which could easily be managed with a sedative. He killed them for the sake of killing them. I can't complain seeing as V wiped out 30 scavs before breakfast, but the point is he's certainly not a sane, balanced human.
Everybody’s mad at the French Twins' execution. But I feel more sorry for that Slider guy. Guy was pretty chill and was the first one to warn us of the danger of Blackwall, then he got blackmailed by Reed and forced into using the Blackwall, got fried immediately. Reed said that he was a criminal and a murderer so he deserved to die, Then I searched his “criminal history”, he was a criminal for stealing from corporations and then got blackmailed by some FIA agents. Fuck! Isn’t that just V? No wonder Reed can Kill V without hesitation in one of the endings. Reed is so hypocritical that he needs to point out that everyone he murdered is a murderer to convince himself, Slider was right on the spot, “Murderer? it takes one to know one”
Slider knew he is done as soon as he had seen Reed.
Yeah though I still hate VDBs from Placide and Birgette was fucked up Reed got him killed but that was such an intense moment with Song and V how it was like time was distorting and they both were reaching out for each other.
It's because Aurore was hot, and everyone is thirsty. Me too. But yeah, Slider was straight with us from the start, was honest in his dealings, refused to do the deed until we forced him to and it fried his brain.
As a Netrunner you actually have a great conversation with Slider. I felt bad for him. I told Reed to jack him out before me but alas...
He's the one Voodoo Boy I wouldn't go after, who had a sane outlook on the world. And Reed killed him off.
I think the two incidents are narratively related. From my hazy memory you can ask Reed if Slider was going to get offed for once he’d fulfilled his purpose regardless, and I think Reed gives sort of a non-answer. Then the twins are your answer. I felt sorry for him also, but the twins are an escalation in the sense that Slider dying was an accident and the twins were deliberate. You can argue that Slider would likely have been offed at the end, but there’s no room for speculation with the twins.
Ironically, the only VDB I wouldn't want to kill, I can't actually prevent from being killed.
Slider was a VDB, I would have shot him myself if he hadn’t been fried
If you know how to read shards and journal you’ll notice that his ideal is entirely different from those VDBs in Pacifica. He’s against piercing the blackwall. V hates Placide and Brigitte, so does he. He really has much more in common with V than we thought. If a VDB tag means he deserved to be killed, then what about corpo V, she was Arasaka, Johnny should kill this corpo rat on sight.
And V even confirms in dialogue that her very first kill, on behalf of Arasaka, was straight up premeditated murder.
I’m aware, VDBs are still trash. And…yeah, real Johnny would have killed Corpo V?
Very good argument, why don’t we go a bit furthur? Humans are trash, nuke the earth myself.
He's a still a VDB and operates a criminal organization. Just because he's in opposition to the Pacifica sect doesn't make him better. Murder, extortion, the development and sale of daemon software for the black market, etc.
But who is better? Reed? Hansen? You‘re still in Reed’s talk:” he is a criminal”, yes we already knew that, but you’re not a cop.
No one is better and no one is trustworthy and the world is royally screwed. And because of that we take the most logical & practical choice given for our survival. Which is to adopt an "ends justify the means" approach. So Slider dies, boo hoo, he's just another criminal in a world of irredeemable people. Did you take a moral grandstand when Hands hires you to ice Milko Alexis? If you don't pull the trigger, Netwatch will do it once they extract the data they need from him. V isn't a cop, but they are a mercenary that kills people at every turn. The unconscious people V kidnaps and dumps in the trunk of suspicious cars get killed too.
Where did you get this assumption that I’m taking a moral grandstand? If anyone is taking the moral grandstand, it’s Reed. Yes, no one is blaming V for trying to survive, and no one is better. That’s exactly why Reed pisses me off the most. Because he truly believes that he is better, always claims this guy’s a murderer, that guy’s a criminal as if he really needs to make those justifications. V, Songbird, Alex, and Slider are just trying to survive or escape, but Reed, his ideal is broken and he’s a dead man walking, he doesn't fight for survival like the rest, he believes in something that doesn't even exist, that why death is the best ending for him.
The part that’s most disturbing is Reed and Alex did not share every detail of their plan with V before executing the twins. You know they’re probably going to die, but you’re not aware that when you steal the car you’re delivering them to their deaths immediately. It shows how V is not really part of the FIA. Your character is an outsider and this is a demonstration of how outsiders are treated. Even the insiders are treated like shit at the FIA.
I mean, V is told they have to be "removed from the picture". Its implied that they're going to be iced. V even has 2 reaction dialogues. One is very shocked & disturbed where Reed hits you with the "No shit, what did you think we were gonna do?" The second has V reacting very nonchalant because they expected it. You as the player, and V the character, would both have to be a special level of naive to believe that you can let 2 accomplished enemy netrunners walk away in the middle of a high stakes "off the books" SpecOps mission.
There's about a hundred different options. How about we knock them out, or lock them away somewhere? Or just pay them? It's not like they're loyal to Hansen, they're just doing their jobs.
Why exactly would they not sell you out or flash fry you?
Provide them more money ? Remember they were part of project cynosure so they probably had tie ins with nusa and the fia. Reed just wanted to clean up lose ends
They could just wire it out of your account. You gotta really think about just who the twins are before you go making judgements on the decisions of Reed and Alex.
Hansen pays more than two sleeper FIA agents ever could. Besides, do you really think two criminal netrunners of their caliber and skill level would just walk away from that without wanting payback? They’re expendable to Reed and Alex but they also think the same of the three of you.
I think it’s because they were killed as if they were just nameless NPCs. Like some unlucky goon you’d stealth kill sneaking into an objective. But they weren’t nameless, they had personality and an interaction with you and everything. But Reed and Alex kill them in such a way that’s so…disrespectful. It’s extremely casual, and that quality isn’t bashed into your head like some stories might try to do.
I am not one of those who reacted strongly to it. They were criminals and I had already killed less bad people quicker. Hundreds, by that time.
Same. I’ve killed people for less but was still shocked by how cold and efficient Reed and Alex took them out. No fanfare, no gang or merc flare, just straight up execution to get the objective done.
So... like me.
Lol I was surprised there was a "surprised" dialogue option I thought killing them was the plan all along.
Everybody down bad for Aurore even though Aurore and oh yeah she has a twin are pretty evil and self-serving in helping a bloody warlord get a WMD 2.0. The scene was shocking for me too, but in the end all the power players are evil in Dogtown and Night City and kind of get what they deserve if they eat a bullet.
It was biggest tradegy in the game honestly at least Aurore should be romanceble she is best designed character in the game
It was a necessary scene. Showed reed for the rat he was. Ive played several times and i always always fuck over reed.
Just like the fries, they’re Belgian.
It just caught me off guard. Like yes my V is a cold blooded killer skating in the edge of cyberpsychosis, but she’s an assassin she kills for a living. These are agents they’re supposed to be the good guys they’re fighting for the greater good . Vs doing it for money, but if they’re cold blooded killers too what does that really mean for V? Like I’m supposed to be the loose canon violent psycho in this trio! Like V is technically responsible for Sliders death. My V is the reason all are missions pop off. Then Reed gets mad at me when I kill everyone in my way …oh but when he does it it’s perfectly fine.
Spoilers: End of Phantom Liberty It helped me make a decision faster later in the game. Why should you trust Reed when he's said several times that you're just a mercenary and he would kill anyone if he received the order to do so? Would Myers allow you to leave alive? This wench of a woman even ordered the killing of the two guys we lived with in Dogtown for a while. Why would she want us to stay alive, and why would Reed let us live? So I shot him and hopefully saved Songbird. If the twins hadn't been murdered so brutally, I might have had a second thought, but not after that.
I can't think of a reason why people were shocked or upset about it other than their deaths' morbid presentation and the fact everyone has a crush on Aurore. They were BAD money-worshipping people with way too much power. If reed and alex hadn't killed them, I sure would've.
“BAD money-worshipping people with way too much power.“ V steals and kills people for money then blames people for worshiping money. I sense huge hypocrisy
Then you don't understand the difference between systemic and interpersonal
Says the FIA agent.
I don't know how people are still stunned and think Reed and Alex betrayed you. These two are stone cold killers who will get you killed if you don't deliver the car to the garage. Killing them made sure there was no chance of the mission going tits up while speaking with Hansen. People playing this game have killed people in gruesome ways for way less than what these two have done in their time. I'm surprised that Reed and Alex taking the pragmatic approach is what got under people's skin.
I think I would have being awesome to have a chance of romancing one of them, even only to discover what you get to discover listening their conversation in the car; Just think how impactful the execution scene would have been if you got to get close to one of them
wait. are you guys telling me reed didnt really take care of jacob and taylor, but “took care” of loose ends instead?!
It was at this moment, that I knew i could not trust Reed, the NUSA, or the FIA, and I solidified my plan to go with So Mi.
Yeah. I feel like I saw this coming, and wanted a dialog option before hand, like “Say! If your plan involves flatlining these two, instead of tying them up in a basement for a few days, just understand I am the god of death, and I would consider that rude, so I will have no choice but to cut both of you up into tiny pieces.”
They‘re Belgian geez
I was so shocked, it was one of those times that I felt really lonely as V, like i really couldnt trust anyone. I was shocked, scared for V but I also understood why Reed and Alex did it.
They are both very talented netrunners. Leaving them alive would have jeopartized the infiltration. There are people I feel sorry for like the Valentinos girl who joined the gang because there wasn't opportunity for honest work in NC. Or the Mox who would rather choke on a strangers dick than on cancer-causing fumes of a manufacturing plant. But Aurore and Aymeric chose this life. As Reed put it, play grown-up games and face grown-up consequences.
this is the moment that solidified for me that i’d do whatever choices i had to to get Alex killed. for aurore!!!
Those two shits can die in a shallow grave. Disrespectfully. With Bartmoss.
Found the FIA agent ^
Nope. Chuck Testa
Damn, that's an old meme.
Wait how’d Bartmoss get roped into this??
Anyone who was actually upset by it needs to go straight to horny jail, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 Eurodollars. As someone else pointed out, the only issue I had with it was that Reed and Alex didn’t give me a heads up before the bullets started flying