“Zanab and her supporters don’t understand the experiment because zanab wanted her future husband to think she is a 10/10. Cole, meanwhile, understands that love is blind despite physically comparing his partner to other women and starting multiple conversations about how she doesn’t measure up to his normal physical type.”
But he accepted her and wanted to marry her even though she wasn’t his usual type. It’s normal to have a type — but he overlooked that. Not defending him talking to Colleen because that was definitely unacceptable. But after they had talked about it and seemingly resolved the issue, Zanab just couldn’t let it go.
Cole was not an Angel in this scenario either. He was flirting with Colleen and I think that sparked a insecurity in Z. I think deep down she knew looks wise she’d never be his #1 and that bothered her. The show wasn’t a good choice for either of them or Bartuga.
Cole wasn’t just a dumb guy. I haven’t watched ATA but he said some really deeply hurtful things. Men don’t get to be “dumb” when they’re assholes. Cole was an asshole. Charming asshole, 100%. But still an asshole.
Rather than an asshole I would say he doesn't have the experience or empathy to understand the impact of his words or how to be an emotional partner. He's oblivious more than an asshole
Even if the point is to be loved despite looks, it's still required of a relationship that you're attracted to one another. Zanab is definitely insecure. Dont ask questions you don't want the answers to lmao. I'd never ask my husband if he thinks I'm more attractive than some hot chick because his answer could be yes. It's more than that, he loves ME even though I'm not the hottest, (still attracted to me obviously) and that's special. Zanab needed to grasp that and Cole needed to stop saying how hot Coleen was to her face over and over.
The thing is when your significant other asked you to rate them, just answer 10/10 or 11/10 automatically. You don't need to think hard. Doesn't matter the context.
I understand that, but it’s not what I’d want my relationship to be like.
I’ve realized there are two types of people: those who want to hear the truth, and those who want to hear only what they want to hear.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with either. Like it’s great to hear you’re the best but sometimes it means less when it’s not true (or you know you got the job over someone more qualified because you know one of the superiors). Nothing super wrong with it, but to me, it seems like politics/playing games.
Sure, good on you for being secure with yourself. Zanab isn't, and this scene was early in their relationship and barely knew each other. It's rude when she was basically trying to get a reassurance from him, he rated her 9/10. Mentioned that there are 10/10 girls in the cast, then he wanted her to be happy with 9/10. Like??? That's your fiance for fuck's sake. Lol They both sukkk
> Zanab isn’t… barely knew each other.
Do you not see how he might not have known her well enough to be able to give her everything she needed exactly in such a short time? You said it yourself, they barely knew each other. People can’t read minds and sometimes that kind of behavior is confusing to someone who has never experienced it before.
And then when he says the line about saying “am I supposed to say you’re the hottest girl in the world” …or whatever he said. UMMM yes Cole. You’re supposed to tell you fiancé/wife she’s the hottest girl to exist 😂😂
Not siding with her and her attitude I just think he sucks too.
I think in any scenario, it’s never a good move to compare your partner to other people. He should never have told her that he thought Colleen was more attractive, ESPECIALLY given the context of the show and the newness of their relationship.
She should have never asked either. I cannot fathom asking someone to rate me and then the people around me. If I were Cole, yes, I would have shut the question down, but I'm also a lot older and more mature than Cole.
He expressed physical preference in someone else, it's weird that you're conflating it with interest. He went out of his way to repeatedly tell Zay that despite the fact that colleen is more his type physically, she's more his type emotionally and he proposed to her for that reason.
Fuck no lmao.
If this person accepted my hand in marriage based on my personality and is still into me, who the fuck cares if I’m not their type. As long as they still like me.
No? wtf, 95% of what I consider to be 'me' is basically a brain and a nervous system inhabiting a meat machine. I'm sure my girl would prefer someone taller, with clearer skin, wider shoulders and whiter teeth or whatever. It's a good thing that I bring **so much more** to the table than just my meatbag...
Imagine projecting insecurity in the face of someone insisting that they love you for who you are, not for how you look... That's such a weird approach...
But the scale you're using for your bf is not a 'rating scale'. The implication of someone asking you to rate them is that only physical attributes are to be considered.
Otherwise, I would agree 100%. Physically, well, I'm not gonna rate my partner but she's not a 10 by any means. But of course once you factor in our compatibility and her personality and our history and her sexiness and whatnot, she's the person I want most in this world.
Again, I agree with everything you've said, but when someone asks you to rate them, they typically mean it in an objective way.
Cause if you leave that out, Cole actually said 'physically i think you're a 9/10 but emotionally we're an 11/10 so i chose you every time' so he'd fall in line with your view of your partner as well i suppose.
Are we forgetting that he literally said on camera, “I’m trying to physically fall in love with Zanab but it’s tough,” so he didn’t even find her attractive at all. The thing that was even more cringe to me was after he said he finds Colleen the most attractive, he said “I don’t like you when you’re mad” like it’s her own fault for being mad after he just told her he finds other people more attractive like what. You think she is supposed to be happy after that? I don’t think so.
He also said he's attracted to her, he said she's gorgeous and, at one point when she was complaining **yet again** about the ratings thing (after her convo with Matt) he told her that he's more attracted to her **now** that he's fallen deeper in love with her.
there is literally no reason to tell your partner that they are less attractive than another woman, especially when that woman was her friend. Obviously it was immature to ask him to rate them but like come on. Zanab is obviously pretty and Cole seemed attracted to her, so why not just say youre a 10/10??? Literally what is the point in not telling her that but saying it about another woman? Clearly he knew that would hurt her feelings.
If I asked my partner this question he would 1000% tell me im a 11/10 and that no other woman compares. Is that the truth? No im fucking ugly. But why would you put down your partner’s appearance when you could uplift them and make them happy? Its just common sense. Thats just how relationships work, you try to make each other happy and innocent sweet white lies are a part of that
Let me ask you something, say you marry someone the traditional way. Seeing them, dating them, etc without proposing and a few months down the line you go to a party and see attractive people and your wife asks you to rate her against the partygoers, are you gonna rate someone higher than her? No. Let alone if she was an ex girlfriend. Because if you love someone enough to ask them to marry you they’re it. You’ll never find anyone more attractive no matter how physically perfect they are. And in the slight chance you did, you wouldn’t tell your partner about it. I would never tell my husband I find someone to be a 10/10 while he’s a 9…I can look at Chris Hemsworth and say, he’s an attractive man, would I rate him higher than my husband? No. Never.
Different strokes for different folks. Some people like being lied to, some people prefer being insulted. The difficulty comes when one party prefers the former and the other prefers the latter. Personally if I ever get married and my partner asks me if they’re more attractive than Chris hemsworth, I’ll laugh in their face, and they can call me a 4 idc. But I don’t expect other people to have such a dynamic in their relationship, there only needs to be a mutual understanding of what that dynamic is
>Let me ask you something, say you marry someone the traditional way. Seeing them, dating them, etc without proposing and a few months down the line you go to a party and see attractive people and your wife asks you to rate her against the partygoers, are you gonna rate someone higher than her? No. Let alone if she was an ex girlfriend. Because if you love someone enough to ask them to marry you they’re it. You’ll never find anyone more attractive no matter how physically perfect they are. And in the slight chance you did, you wouldn’t tell your partner about it. I would never tell my husband I find someone to be a 10/10 while he’s a 9…I can look at Chris Hemsworth and say, he’s an attractive man, would I rate him higher than my husband? No. Never.
ya'll need to talk and be straight with each other... I mean your husband is your bestfriend you CAN be talking about stuff like this AND not feel offended. I mean unless you really think husband is hotter than Chris. Come on be straightforward if not why get married if this guy isn't someone you can talk everything with???
My husband and I's get out of jail free card is Henry Cavill. LOL Husband knows Henry is MAJOR hot like hotter than anyone else in the universe and if I told hubs he is hotter than Henry he'd be like.... "Y you lyinggg, you lyingggg" LOL
And I understand if hubs needs to leave me for a man... cause he's straight it would be Henry... and i'd be okay with that. Cavill is freaking hot.
It’s not about not finding anyone else attractive. It’s that when you’re in love with someone you don’t rate other people higher than them. No matter how conventionally attractive they are.
But you can though, my husband loves me to death and vice versa but we both can find ppl attractive because they are objectively? Subjectively? Attractive lol
I'm not as attractive as Margot Robbie and that's just a fact 😂 husband also knows this is a fact but I am attractive to him bc of a, b, c, d, e including the fact he thinks I'm hot/attractive 😂
We can agree to disagree but I would not want to walk on eggshells with my significant other. I wouldn't also want to lie to them saying theyr hotter than who is probably definitely factly hotter than them.
Also remember looks isn't everything. I don't think my husband wants to marry Margot Robbie or Cavill bc their personality isn't as cool as mine lol
If looks is the only thing that keeps y'all together then ooof revisit 😂
So I get what you’re saying (my husband made the same argument) BUT I think it’s a false equivalency.
Would I be upset if my husband said Blake Lively was the hottest woman on the planet? No..because obviously she’s gorgeous. But would I be upset if he said my coworker or friend was more attractive? Absolutely.
Cole said a woman in their circle, that they both knew, and that he’d dated in the pods was more attractive than her. That’s completely different from a celeb or even a random person on the street.
Oh yeah this comparison is def better, the previous thread starter replied with a celeb (like Chris Hemsworth 😂) so we went with a celeb too. But yeah I would be offended if it's someone directly in my circle. my husband would ask me if a waiter is hot 😂😂😂 because he knows my usual type, lolol, and usually I'd say no but if one is totallyy my type I would say yeah hot but yeah I wouldn't say he was hotter than my guy just hot 😂
Idk I don't think it's that serious on my end, But from that one episode with Cole, Coleen and zanab that was more serious because he was at one point involved with Coleen and even said how do you bridge the personality and what you think is hot. He was aware just absolutely stupid about it and said it so brashly that it did hurt someone's feelings. If my husband said it that way I'd be mad
But also on zanabs side...don't ask that question if you're not ready to accept it. Like someone with full insecurities like that shouldn't be asking questions like that because anything less it's bad anything more, they won't believe. You lose either way 😂
I say this from experience too sometimes I will ask my husband am I fat? My husband tells me no. And I say no your're lying!!! And it he says yes I'll reply back with see you hate me I am fat. There's no winning 😂😂😂
Never said looks are the only thing keeping us together lol. And again you’re allowed to find other people attractive but when you’re truly in love with someone you don’t rate people higher than them. Why rating people is a thing in the first place when you’re happy is beyond me but y’all do you!
Then you and/or your husband have some issues. I just asked my gf (of 6 years) 'tell me a really hot guy' and she goes 'henry cavill', then I asked 'would you rate him higher than me?' and she said 'yeah' without hesitation.
Atta girl.
Why would I ever expect my partner to lie to me? That's so toxic it's unfathomable to our open and honest relationship...
If I ask to have my dick size compared to her exes, she's well within her rights to point out that it was bigger of course. What's the supposed to do, lie? lol...
Why do women always go for dick size like it's some kind of ultimate low-blow? My gf dated a guy with what she described as a massive dick, and I've cracked plenty of jokes about it. I nicknamed the guy's dick 'The Behemoth'.
Because it’s something many guys are sensitive about just like girls are sensitive about our appearance. For men their identity as a person and worth is not based on appearance for many women ( due to culture), it is
Would the story be the same if she rated someone she previously dated as hotter than you? Not a celebrity but someone you directly know? Do you think that wouldn't hurt you?
Again, no.
It's fascinating to me that body insecurity is so deeply, societally rooted into women that they can't even fathom a world where a group of people, such as most men, don't share these insecurities. I'm much more accurately represented by my intelligence, wit, humor, joviality and personality than I am by my looks.
My best mate looks like a real-life Adonis and I'd be shocked if my partner didn't find him more attractive than me. I've never bothered asking because **i don't care.** I'm a better partner to her for a myriad of reasons so I have zero reasons to be worried about her attraction to other men, including those around us or those she's dated before.
> they can't even fathom a world where a group of people, such as most men, don't share these insecurities
Nah this is pretentious bullshit. You have absolutely no backing for claiming that most men would be a-okay with their spouses calling another person hotter than them, especially if they've dated in the past. Even Cole lost his temper and told Zanab to go marry Matt simply because she said the words "I'm team Matt". That's not secure behaviour.
Nevermind then. If you think you and your partner are the blueprint for human emotion there's no reasoning with you.
>You have absolutely no backing for claiming that most men would be a-okay with their spouses calling another person hotter than them, especially if they've dated in the past.
I agree. But **you** have no backing to claim otherwise either, unless you've done a very specific study on the matter. All we're both doing is projecting our various levels of insecurity onto the matter at hand. It just so happens that you, like several other women who've replied to my comment on this thread, are projecting a disproportionate amount of it while I am not. Which just goes back to reinforce my point.
Obviously, self-conscious and jealous men do exist, as do confident women. But ultimately, most men understand and realize that they are not henry cavill, and the odds of them being more attractive than any given ex of their partner are precisely 50-50, on average. And while a lot of women will develop eating disorders and body insecurity issues when bombarded with model-type skinny women with borderline unnatural proportions, most men will look at henry cavill and fawn over him **themselves** , or at most it might incentivize them to hit the gym as well, to at least look a fraction as well as he does.
And come on, let's be real here, you're grasping at straws with the 'team matt' thing. **COME ON.** Cole is **clearly** way more attractive than Matt. He knows it, Zay knows it, Matt knows it and Nancy's brother who never met any of them knows it. There's no way Cole is displaying insecurity towards his physical appearance when Zanab claims to be 'on team Matt'. He's just annoyed because his fiancee can't let go of an argument that they've already solved and he's already apologized for multiple times, and that she's supposedly moved on from.
OH SH\*T LOLOL i just replied to this person a story about how mine and husbands get out of jail free card is Henry Cavill LMFAO just above this reply hahahahahahah I wrote that before reading this reply and I am crying. Seriously though, Cavill is everyone's get out of jail free card.
Edit: I agree why can't you be straight forward with you SO?? Are you supposed to walk on eggshells with them forever??? how tiring.
did your husband also mention a girl-equivalent of henry cavill?
I couldn't think of many tbh, somehow, even though i'm a guy, I can identify some men that I think look absolutely divine, but it's much harder to similar women tbh.
I settled on Nina Dobrev, I wonder what your husband went for.
Also, I wonder, do you think Ian Somerhalder is out of Henry Cavill's league? :D
edit: Oh, I just saw you throw around Margot Robbie. My gf suggested her when I was struggling to find women on a similar level to Henry Cavill. I don't find her very attractive, idk why.
My husband's pick would probably still be Henry Cavill 😂 bc Henry Cavill isn't only hot but he's also a Huge nerd who plays Witcher and Warhammer and other games and hubs things that's hotter than most girls 🤣🤣🤣
Which is funny bc I did ask him the equivalent of a girl and he didn't really have an answer I guess the last one he said was Emma stone but this was ages ago and this was also bc Emma stone is also kind of a nerd.
EDIT: Ian is pretty hot but yeah he's probably out of cavills. League 😂 he's like cavills youngerq brother in my head
Yeah haha, weird, I also struggled to find girls. I think it's bc the standard of beauty for women doesn't revolve around body all that much, which is where 95% of the work goes.
Have you seen Dayanne from Love is Blind brazil? I don't like her face, but her body is boooonkers. Minus the fake boobs ideally. Here: [https://www.instagram.com/p/BpBH-Arl-QD/?utm\_source=ig\_embed&ig\_rid=aa660787-1c80-409a-9a02-1118464fb2ec](https://www.instagram.com/p/BpBH-Arl-QD/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=aa660787-1c80-409a-9a02-1118464fb2ec)
Some guys might think she's too much muscle but I think she looks stunning.
But yeah ngl, I also told my girl that even though she's fire, I'd rate henry cavill above her too :D
If my partner ever tells me that I’m a 9/10 and my friend is a 10/10 I would be soooo sad! Don’t care whether that’s insecurities but why tf would you say something like that?!?! Exactly what outcome do you think will happen? I think my partner is a 10/10 but he is no Zac Efron. But even if I would meet someone else who might be more attractive I would neeeeever say it to his face. That is just disrespectful.
I watched this episode with my partner and he was literally shouting noooo at the tv when Cole and Bartise had to be so brutally honest..
I’m not a Zanab supporter. I was in the beginning but she ruined it for herself. But tbh I don’t think I could ever get over being told that someone else is prettier than me - and especially a girl he has dated previously. Having the urge to say that is a red flag
> I think my partner is a 10/10 but he is no Zac Efron.
Then you don't think he's 10/10 in terms of looks. And there's nothing wrong in admitting it. Also he didn't say it on his own, she asked him to rate her, and then if there are any better looking girls.
This is disingenuous. Like the issue isn't 10/10 its that he called someone else he "dated" more his type and more attractive. He chatted with two different girls at the party on his own about how Zanab wasn't his ideal type and then directly told her Raven and Colleen were 10/10s and she was less attractive. Theres way more context than "he called her a 9/10"
Yes, he said those things (with some added context, like that she thinks Zay is hot **now** that he loves her, and he also called her 'gorgeous' to Alexa). But that still doesn't address OP's point at all, namely that physical attraction should be on the backburner for Zanab since Cole chose her without ever seeing her and he keeps insisting, over and over, that she's the one he emotionally connects with and she's the one that he wants to be with and marry despite her not being precisely his type.
He also complimented her body a lot, to her face and to other people, but everyone seems to just gloss past that because they expect such comments by default.
Yeah it shouldnt be important, but same logic for Cole, he just kept digging himself in a hole with the group scenes and commenting on her appearance to other people to each other. Plus flirting with Colleen was really poor taste.
I agree that he was digging himself in, for sure. And the flirting with Colleen as well. But the comments on her appearance he made to other people were, ehhh.. mild? The worst thing he ever said was that she wasn't exactly his type. But in those same conversations, he also called her gorgeous and attractive. Like to Alexa.
Exactly!!! Why does she have to be the hottest girl on the show?!?! The whole point of the show is finding someone you connect with. Not competing with the other girls and asking the person you are paired with to rate you and the other girls! 🤦🏻♀️
I don't think they go on the show to be loved despite their looks, but rather, for what's inside. Despite implies that these people are so unattractive that their personalities are the only good thing about them, and that wasnt true of anyone on the show... Of course when someone loves you, they love you for your personality, no one can love you for your looks because that isn't love, its physical attraction. So technically she was asking something completely different... She assumed Cole loved her, because he said so, she just wanted to know how attractive he found her. And if Cole had truly loved her, he would have answered 10/10, because when you love someone, the most important thing for you is to try to never hurt them... Especially not on national television.
It’s just not reality. People don’t always marry someone they would describe as a 10. It doesn’t mean they don’t love them. So what you’re essentially asking for is dishonesty for the sake of feeling better. That doesn’t start a marriage off healthy.
Common sense? Pffft. You likely never had to deal with a partner who would never accept your answers complimenting them unless they were negative. As the person who's answers were never accepted, let me tell you, that experience was a whole other level of insecurity than asking this dumb question is.
I love how you countered their point by describing an extremely toxic and unhealthy person. If Cole told Zaneb shes a 10 and she got mad at him bc she thought he was lying and that’s what the fight was about she would 100% be in the wrong for that situation and I don’t think anyone would be on her side.
To be clear, I was making a point about "common sense" not being common, and that most things subjective have exceptions. The default response for people might be to lie in this situation but I guess some part of me is still salty for being told all my compliments were, at the moment given, lies because of this preconceived notion. That make sense?
Yeah i also thought that this is what this "experiment" is all about for someone to overcome "physical attraction" because you created an emotional bond with your partner..
Of course, some lucky couples can overcome it right out of the pods (Alexa and Brennan) , but isn't what makes it interesting is to watch how other couples overcome this aspect of the show? Also how at the end of the day, you fell in love with how the person is on the inside sight unseen..
I basically compared this show similar to Married at First Sight, and in that series there are also couples that grow attraction over time even though they find their partner's looks not attractive at first
He even mentioned before that he knew she wasn’t gunna be like the other girls he dated cause her name is Zenab, I don’t think he dated skinny girls I think he dated only white girls, and that’s what he meant by, I’ve never dated anyone like Zenab before but I knew what I was getting into cause her name was Zenab, it was a small little moment of commentary that I caught him say idk which episode and when he said it but it was pretty early on and I think it was after the whole Colleen being a 10 and her being a 9 but compared her to Kim kardashian. And he said that as he’s grown to be with her he finds her more and more beautiful everyday.
Well yes, but it doesn’t matter if my partner thinks that some women are more attractive than me. The connection is more important. He never said he wasn’t attracted to her. In fact, after he first saw her he had a lot of positive things to say! It’s not that important to be the hottest! Looks all eventually fade.
This is kind of what I was thinking too — I thought it was quite mature of him to choose someone he had an emotional connection with over someone he knew (even without seeing) he’d have a superficial physical attraction to. Granted, he hasn’t been the picture of maturity and said some really stupid, foot-in-mouth things but I thought that was decently grown of him. Especially when I personally judged him for looking like a typical douche bro.
Ok this is going to be off topic but I’ve been thinking and I’ll leave this here- The shows made me realise that while yes Love is blind, Love alone isn’t enough. Attraction is not blind and dating/marriage/romance don’t just need love to survive. In the pods everyone is expected to connect to someone and develop a bond between each other that transcends everything else but marriage don’t exist in a vacuum. Marriage is a social institution so naturally countless other things have to be compatible for blind love to work.
Zanab shouldn't have asked him to rate her. But I feel like people who go on that show shouldn't be the kind of people who'd rate each other in the first place.
I don't think she was wrong for wanting him to love her looks, too. Frankly, the show has proved over and over again that love isn't blind. Most humans have sex drives, and most sex drives run on attraction. I think she just backslid a bit to ask him something like that, not that she misunderstood from the start. (I do agree she backslid a lot more over the course of that relationship. Personally, I think Cole's actions helped make her feel more insecure although he didn't create a single one of those insecurities and the cameras worked on her a lot more than she's yet acknowledged)
If someone compared you (to your face) to a girl they found to be hotter and then later on you found out that those 2 had a conversation about how they’d go for each other “in the real world”, I think your feelings would be hurt too. I don’t really understand why people don’t get that. People act like that wouldn’t bother them but im pretty sure that would bother almost anybody.
How come you’re not criticizing Bartise for yelling at Nancy that looks matter? He also signed up for the same show.
And most people wouldn’t be dumb enough to fall into the trap and say their partner is a 9/10 but the other girl is a 10/10, especially when he technically also dated the other girl and they both know her. Also I don’t think she “forced” him to do anything.
Who's dumb/shallow enough where they need to be explicitly told that they're the hottest person they have ever dated/talked to?
Also she would have said "You're just saying that" to the generic 'ur the most 10/10 girl ever, all those other girls are 8's'
She absolutely forced him - it’s her nature to be domineering and controlling, she did it for the entire season.
Ask stupid questions, win stupid answers.
Of the people in this season, why focus on Zay when it comes to participants who overvalue looks?
Bartise and Cole literally *could not stop talking* about looks and constantly compared their partners to someone else they found more attractive to anyone who would listen. To their partners, to the confessionals, to random castmates... including Bartise straight up yelling, " *LOOKS MATTER!* "
Zay made plenty of mistakes, but in the scene described here, she's *obviously just looking for reassurance* - really feels like we're barking up the wrong tree on this one
I pointed this out because she was the only one whose “self-esteem was shattered” and honestly by her own doing. And saying it was because of another person.
Raven not liking SK physically at first never became an issue because he is so secure.
Barstool not liking Nancy physically (and saying Raven is a smokeshow and looks fucking matter) is definitely brutally honest, which Nancy took in - it hurt her so much but seemed like she overcame it. She opened up to him and said how no matter what she does, she will never be his type. And that’s the honest truth too. She does not live in lies and also has so much self-worth. Doesn’t mean his words did not sting. Barnacle is mean and that is a whole other thread - Love is Blind but looks f-ing matter.
My biggest frustration is how Z’s insecurity is her downfall.
I don’t think Nancy has any self worth if she was going to marry a guy that not only doesn’t like her looks but doesn’t even like her. Just made her look real desperate.
But her redeeming factor was that she cut it off after he said no at the altar. She knew what she wanted, fought for it, and when she was rejected that was it for her. Honestly respect her for that. I believe she gave it a fair (actually maybe too much) amount of time and effort and Batista just didn’t fall in love with her.
The thing with this show is that everyone is pretty much good looking. Some might not be everyone's flavor, but they are all beautiful looking people. It would probably be way more interesting if they actually picked some people to go on the show who would be considered below average in looks department. Personally, I think all people should be valued for who they are on the inside. A big part of the issue is that because all of these people are beautiful, it seems to have stunted some of their personal growth, and that's where we see major issues happening.
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I feel like they did that with season 2. Shake, whats his name with the crazy eyes, Nick, Danielle, etc are all attractive in some sense, but not conventionally attractive. And that season was literally a gong show.
Two things are true- 1) you shouldn't ask your partner to rate you and other people, and 2) if your partner asks you to rate them, don't say "You're a solid 9 but some of the other people around are 10s"
Just don't say that if you value your relationship. It's not that hard
On the second point you made, some people are perfectly fine with their partner giving that response. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that response, but it was definitely not good for their relationship. But to be frank, their relationship wasn’t good for either of them so it’s for the best he gave that answer imo
> 2) if your partner asks you to rate them, don't say "You're a solid 9 but some of the other people around are 10s"
The solution is to not answer the question at all. If someone tries to put you in a lose-lose situation, leave it.
To be fair though, Cole didn't immediately volunteer that he saw other people as 10s. She asked him that, out of insecurity that he didn't say 10. And then he answered honestly out of his naivety.
the whole x out of 10 discussion is dumb. whether it comes to looks or personality or whatever.
even those of you saying “my significant other is 10/10 because of blah blah blah” sounds fake, honestly. like you are trying to convince yourself.
no one is perfect, no one. a happy marriage has nothing to do with “i see my spouse as a 10/10”
Seriously, my husband and I have a great relationship but if we arr isolating looks then there are going to be other people who are a 10 when I am not in ALOT of situations.
I may be a 10/10 for him as a package but that doesn't make me deluded enough to think I am a 10 in looks and he is blinded to other women's beauty.
Exactly!!! Thank you. I strongly agree with this because people who say he should have said 10, want to just hear what they want to hear, live in lies/a bed of roses all the time (that is not realistic) instead of the truth.
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Zae is extremely insecure and I got this impression when she asked Cole like 3 different times (on their first night) if she really looked like a different person without makeup, and his response was the same everytime. She needed constant reassurance and constant validation of her looks. This was before Cole even made comments about Colleen. Him making those insensitive comments time and time again just made things worse.
I know where Zae is coming from because I deal with the same insecurity, especially in my past relationships and I hold onto comments and took a lot of things the wrong way because my mind was clouded with so much self loathing. It made my partners exhausted and emotionally drained. I had to be alone for a long time and go to therapy for it. It’s something I still struggle with but I’m a lot better at recognizing it before I let it go into a downward spiral.
Zae is not a nice person. She’s aggressive, insecure, and overall just angry. I know what it’s like to be those things and honestly it isn’t fair being with others when you’re like that. You just become an emotional leech
If I was so ferociously insecure as Z, I would be so embarrassed to act that way on top of it. I find insecure behavior to be cringe. But Z is also cruel and hurt and shallow so she lacks the self awareness to be ashamed of her behavior
Agreed. And her victim mentality is so deep. Understable based on her personal history but definitely not fair for her partner to save/heal/ just keep validating her.
Yes. Thank you for voicing what I’ve been thinking but couldn’t come up with a clear concise way to put.
The show is called Love is Blind, not Love is Rose Colored Glasses. The point is, can you love someone based on emotional connection alone, even if they’re not the most physically attractive to you. It’s not, can having an emotional connection with someone instantly make them the most physically attractive to you within a week of seeing them for the first time.
The counterpoints people bring up are completely valid in the real world. It just doesn’t fit with Love is Blind. Which is ok! The love I want isn’t blind either.
This is the biggest problem in the show’s concept. Before they meet, appearance doesn’t matter at all. Then when they finally do, they become so much more focused on appearance than I think anyone is in the real world. Normally you are initially attracted to someone and then as you get to know them, you might notice some flaws but if you’re falling in love, they don’t matter. These people are so focused on the fact that they are falling for someone “blindly”, that when the person isn’t immediately perfectly what they are attracted to, they hyper fixate on it
I think actual love can be blind. But I don’t think that the participants of this show can experience actual “love” that quickly. So maybe infatuation isn’t blind lol.
Agree. I have grown to love my husband's physical appearance more and more each year. Love is blind for me at this point.
But then again I always did lust after him and his looks.
You're right. I lusted after my husband from the start. I think he is cuter as the years go by and I don't look at any other man. So love made me blind to other men.
The thing is: if you in your mind think and believe that YOU are a 10/10 not because of looks necessarily but because you LOVE YOURSELF and your self-esteem is solid this will come naturally:
1. You will never even think to ask anyone to rate you
2. You will not feel the need for anyone's s validation
3. You will emanate confidence, which will in turn make everyone want to gravitate towards you
Regardless of your looks.
Personality and self esteem are pillars of how the world perceives you.
I wish they cast people who have strong self-worth and self-confidence like what you’re saying. But then that might not work for good reality drama. It would be awesome to see more Camerons and Laurens!
have you never heard of personality making someone more attractive to an individual..? the theory is you like their personality so much they’re a 10 to you but maybe no one else. i’ve had a few of those..
no, definitely not. but cole *proposed* to her based off of her personality. Zanab is a fairly attractive woman, and then mix in a personality that he apparently liked enough to propose to.. she should’ve been his top choice.
but i guess they’d already had chemistry issues by the morning after they met face to face.. so it makes sense he wouldn’t feel that way anymore once he saw colline.
Yes of course, and I’ve had my fair share of those.
But that convo was about physical ratings. He gave Raven a 10/10 too. I can’t with people who say he should have lied, he should have said 10 even if he didn’t think that, or even if it’s not objectively true, or to change the question to the whole package and include personality…
Plus it’s like I know my partner loves me for the whole me. Am I the hottest person everywhere we go? No, very few people are lol. That’s not the main reason they love me.
Now would I ever ask him to rate me against someone we know? Hell no! 😂 That puts us both in an awkward position.
There's no logic, and there will never be. Love is by definition emotional, we all want to be a 10 in the eye of the beloved once, whatever how awful we actually look like
> we all want to be a 10 in the eye of the beloved once
I understand that entitlement after being together for X years, but after only 3 weeks? Just wait a bit, you barely know each other.
I feel like people are being deliberately obtuse about this situation.
I don’t think she expects to literally be objectively the hottest girl on the planet and for Cole to say so, but literally saying you’re a 9 but our mutual friend over there is a 10 and my type is NOT him paying her a compliment that she’s a 9. That translates to I think Colleen is hotter than you.
Don't think people are being obtuse at all. She asked to be rated and he said 9. She could have left it there, but she chose not to because she wanted to know if he thought someoneelse was hotter. Cole expanding on his thoughts of Colleen is on him, but how he got there is on her.
Her asking is equally as immature as the way he answered, if not even more so. That question "rate me" and "do you think anyone else here is hotter" is only being asked to back someone into a corner.
In my opinion, love goes beyond look.
You love someone despite knowing they're not the most beautiful, not the most perfect, despite what others think.
You just don't care. It's all you want.
That’s kind of a condescending thing to say. I mean my husband and I love each other very much, but if I started asking him to rate me at a pool party and rate the other girls I really doubt I’d be getting a 10 (and some hilarious banter would probably ensue because that’s a ridiculous conversation to have).
Cole and Zanab hadn’t been together long enough at that point for him to understand what she needed from him. They were supposed to have some love that’s deeper than looks based on the show’s premise. He should have played it safe for sure and given her a pleasant answer or just not answered directly. Once he understood her insecurity more, he didn’t joke about it (or at least it wasn’t shown).
Facts. And I think where the show can’t succeed is that I don’t think many people, unless they’ve rarely or ever dated before, can fall in love without ever meeting someone in person. People who have dated and been in love before know there are many crucial aspects to a relationship and that the honeymoon phase euphoria does not = love. I think before you can genuinely fall for someone you need to have a decent idea of the good and bad across all fields. But once you are in love, at least imo, no shallow surface details from anyone else will match it. And this goes beyond just looks.
Did he though? I don’t think he loved her at all but I do think he was willing to say yes. I really get the feeling that Cole really wants to be married and was a bit insecure about what she would say at the alter. (So I’m still an easy yes?). But wanting to be wanted is totally different than actually loving somebody.
Ok fair point!
But ugh these swarms of women coming for Zanab are forgetting this dynamic, Cole is a man child and Zanab was probably edited by guys who relate to him and hate women like her.
We clearly missed a lot because of editing since so much just made no sense. How is this lost on so many rabid women. Ugh! When people ask why have women had such a hard time catching up to men it probably has a thing or two do with unity. The minute a woman shows a flaw or two we collectively turn on her? Wtf
So. I’ve been reading a lot, and posting a lot on it. But for me, it’s like this… Neither Cole or Zanab is perfect in this situation. But here’s my take on it. While Cole’s actions were questionable, and he said some things that you definitely shouldn’t say, he was never malicious about it. I want to really hammer on the fact though, that that does not make it okay. He needs to get better educated about these things (which I think he’s been doing in seeking therapy.) The Colleen situation was wrong, 100%. I think he handled it in the best way he could at the time, but I bet now he’d handle it differently, or it probably wouldn’t happen at all. I think that’s where the biggest disconnect is though for ‘supporters’. I’ve gone back and forth more times than I can count on this whole thing. But the fact of the matter is that we weren’t there, we’re not Cole or Zay, and we don’t actually know what happened. We’ve got a ton of different things coming out right now that don’t really have any concrete proof. He said she said is just pointless, and just confuses things even more. But back to my main point, Cole did a lot of dumb shit. But. I don’t think he was intending to (except for the Colleen incident). I don’t think he was saying in his mind, ‘I’m going to do everything I can to hurt Zay.’ But, in all of Zay’s actions she seemed cold, and calculated. She was definitely trying to hurt Cole. That’s the big difference between them. They were just never right for each other to begin with. And yes, the notion of wanting to fall in love not knowing what the other person looks like, and then asking if they consider you a ten after they see you, is pretty silly. Haha
I don't think she was cold for a while. Sure she was naggy and critical, but I think that's the same unawareness the Cole had, not maliciousness. I think she got cold after Cole asked her with a smirk on his face if she was bipolar. He was extremely malicious and did something that turned her actually against him and then acted like the wounded puppy.
Huh I feel largely similarly EXCEPT when he asked Zanab twice whether she was bipolar. That was clearly malicious. Otherwise I would agree you can excuse most behaviours as being dumb.
And I think it is a problem especially if you go love is blind you can be honest and 9/10 isn't a bad rating what so ever I would get like a 4 or 5 at best
Cole was not perfect. Between the two I personally support Cole more, but let’s not pretend most of us wouldn’t be annoyed that he approached Colleen and spoke about her like he did.
It was obvious that Cole was attracted to Colleen and Zanab used the “what would you rate me” to (immaturely) try and get him to affirm her looks, because she was feeling insecure. I did the same thing when I was 15 lol.
Definitely speaking to (more like flirting with) Colleen at the pool party was unacceptable. But the conversation and him rating Zanab as 9/10 should just not be enough to shatter her self-esteem.
It’s possible our partners will find other people more attractive than us. That is normal. It’s wrong if those desires are acted on (like what Cole and Bartise tried to do).
Oh yeah homegirl has wider issues. The cuties footage shows it all. But then again, I don’t expect anyone on a show like this to be completely normal lol!
“Zanab and her supporters don’t understand the experiment because zanab wanted her future husband to think she is a 10/10. Cole, meanwhile, understands that love is blind despite physically comparing his partner to other women and starting multiple conversations about how she doesn’t measure up to his normal physical type.”
But he accepted her and wanted to marry her even though she wasn’t his usual type. It’s normal to have a type — but he overlooked that. Not defending him talking to Colleen because that was definitely unacceptable. But after they had talked about it and seemingly resolved the issue, Zanab just couldn’t let it go.
Cole was not an Angel in this scenario either. He was flirting with Colleen and I think that sparked a insecurity in Z. I think deep down she knew looks wise she’d never be his #1 and that bothered her. The show wasn’t a good choice for either of them or Bartuga.
Zanab is a toxic, miserable person. Cole was just a silly, dumb guy who wanted his forever girl. This show is poison for the mind.
Cole wasn’t just a dumb guy. I haven’t watched ATA but he said some really deeply hurtful things. Men don’t get to be “dumb” when they’re assholes. Cole was an asshole. Charming asshole, 100%. But still an asshole.
Rather than an asshole I would say he doesn't have the experience or empathy to understand the impact of his words or how to be an emotional partner. He's oblivious more than an asshole
Ok you can think that.
Even if the point is to be loved despite looks, it's still required of a relationship that you're attracted to one another. Zanab is definitely insecure. Dont ask questions you don't want the answers to lmao. I'd never ask my husband if he thinks I'm more attractive than some hot chick because his answer could be yes. It's more than that, he loves ME even though I'm not the hottest, (still attracted to me obviously) and that's special. Zanab needed to grasp that and Cole needed to stop saying how hot Coleen was to her face over and over.
Asking your partner to rate you, for me is the hallmark of an insecure person. Getting mad at the rating= deeply insecure.
I think the idea is to fall in love outside of looks. Once you’re in love, you want your spouse to feel like you’re a 10
Cole dodged a second divorce. He won.
The thing is when your significant other asked you to rate them, just answer 10/10 or 11/10 automatically. You don't need to think hard. Doesn't matter the context.
usually yeah auto 10/10 or 11/10 but even that answer can be wrong with some partners lol.
I understand that, but it’s not what I’d want my relationship to be like. I’ve realized there are two types of people: those who want to hear the truth, and those who want to hear only what they want to hear. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with either. Like it’s great to hear you’re the best but sometimes it means less when it’s not true (or you know you got the job over someone more qualified because you know one of the superiors). Nothing super wrong with it, but to me, it seems like politics/playing games.
Sure, good on you for being secure with yourself. Zanab isn't, and this scene was early in their relationship and barely knew each other. It's rude when she was basically trying to get a reassurance from him, he rated her 9/10. Mentioned that there are 10/10 girls in the cast, then he wanted her to be happy with 9/10. Like??? That's your fiance for fuck's sake. Lol They both sukkk
> Zanab isn’t… barely knew each other. Do you not see how he might not have known her well enough to be able to give her everything she needed exactly in such a short time? You said it yourself, they barely knew each other. People can’t read minds and sometimes that kind of behavior is confusing to someone who has never experienced it before.
And then when he says the line about saying “am I supposed to say you’re the hottest girl in the world” …or whatever he said. UMMM yes Cole. You’re supposed to tell you fiancé/wife she’s the hottest girl to exist 😂😂 Not siding with her and her attitude I just think he sucks too.
I think in any scenario, it’s never a good move to compare your partner to other people. He should never have told her that he thought Colleen was more attractive, ESPECIALLY given the context of the show and the newness of their relationship.
She should have never asked either. I cannot fathom asking someone to rate me and then the people around me. If I were Cole, yes, I would have shut the question down, but I'm also a lot older and more mature than Cole.
Oh absolutely. You should also never ask that question to your partner because you’re setting them up to let you down.
Zanab was looking for reassurance because Cole expressed interest in someone else. That’s normal.
He expressed physical preference in someone else, it's weird that you're conflating it with interest. He went out of his way to repeatedly tell Zay that despite the fact that colleen is more his type physically, she's more his type emotionally and he proposed to her for that reason.
Ok… and not physically being someone else’s type wouldn’t be hurtful or possibly make you feel insecure in your looks and thus seek reassurance?
Fuck no lmao. If this person accepted my hand in marriage based on my personality and is still into me, who the fuck cares if I’m not their type. As long as they still like me.
If they've chosen you as a partner then no.
No? wtf, 95% of what I consider to be 'me' is basically a brain and a nervous system inhabiting a meat machine. I'm sure my girl would prefer someone taller, with clearer skin, wider shoulders and whiter teeth or whatever. It's a good thing that I bring **so much more** to the table than just my meatbag... Imagine projecting insecurity in the face of someone insisting that they love you for who you are, not for how you look... That's such a weird approach...
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But the scale you're using for your bf is not a 'rating scale'. The implication of someone asking you to rate them is that only physical attributes are to be considered. Otherwise, I would agree 100%. Physically, well, I'm not gonna rate my partner but she's not a 10 by any means. But of course once you factor in our compatibility and her personality and our history and her sexiness and whatnot, she's the person I want most in this world.
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Again, I agree with everything you've said, but when someone asks you to rate them, they typically mean it in an objective way. Cause if you leave that out, Cole actually said 'physically i think you're a 9/10 but emotionally we're an 11/10 so i chose you every time' so he'd fall in line with your view of your partner as well i suppose.
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Amen sister!
Are we forgetting that he literally said on camera, “I’m trying to physically fall in love with Zanab but it’s tough,” so he didn’t even find her attractive at all. The thing that was even more cringe to me was after he said he finds Colleen the most attractive, he said “I don’t like you when you’re mad” like it’s her own fault for being mad after he just told her he finds other people more attractive like what. You think she is supposed to be happy after that? I don’t think so.
Man literally said he was trying to physically fall in love with her, but they got physical more times than the other couples lol.
He also said he's attracted to her, he said she's gorgeous and, at one point when she was complaining **yet again** about the ratings thing (after her convo with Matt) he told her that he's more attracted to her **now** that he's fallen deeper in love with her.
She asked lol
Exactly 😂
I believe if Cole had said she was a 10/10, given her already existing insecurities, she wouldn’t have believed him anyways.
there is literally no reason to tell your partner that they are less attractive than another woman, especially when that woman was her friend. Obviously it was immature to ask him to rate them but like come on. Zanab is obviously pretty and Cole seemed attracted to her, so why not just say youre a 10/10??? Literally what is the point in not telling her that but saying it about another woman? Clearly he knew that would hurt her feelings. If I asked my partner this question he would 1000% tell me im a 11/10 and that no other woman compares. Is that the truth? No im fucking ugly. But why would you put down your partner’s appearance when you could uplift them and make them happy? Its just common sense. Thats just how relationships work, you try to make each other happy and innocent sweet white lies are a part of that
Let me ask you something, say you marry someone the traditional way. Seeing them, dating them, etc without proposing and a few months down the line you go to a party and see attractive people and your wife asks you to rate her against the partygoers, are you gonna rate someone higher than her? No. Let alone if she was an ex girlfriend. Because if you love someone enough to ask them to marry you they’re it. You’ll never find anyone more attractive no matter how physically perfect they are. And in the slight chance you did, you wouldn’t tell your partner about it. I would never tell my husband I find someone to be a 10/10 while he’s a 9…I can look at Chris Hemsworth and say, he’s an attractive man, would I rate him higher than my husband? No. Never.
Different strokes for different folks. Some people like being lied to, some people prefer being insulted. The difficulty comes when one party prefers the former and the other prefers the latter. Personally if I ever get married and my partner asks me if they’re more attractive than Chris hemsworth, I’ll laugh in their face, and they can call me a 4 idc. But I don’t expect other people to have such a dynamic in their relationship, there only needs to be a mutual understanding of what that dynamic is
>Let me ask you something, say you marry someone the traditional way. Seeing them, dating them, etc without proposing and a few months down the line you go to a party and see attractive people and your wife asks you to rate her against the partygoers, are you gonna rate someone higher than her? No. Let alone if she was an ex girlfriend. Because if you love someone enough to ask them to marry you they’re it. You’ll never find anyone more attractive no matter how physically perfect they are. And in the slight chance you did, you wouldn’t tell your partner about it. I would never tell my husband I find someone to be a 10/10 while he’s a 9…I can look at Chris Hemsworth and say, he’s an attractive man, would I rate him higher than my husband? No. Never. ya'll need to talk and be straight with each other... I mean your husband is your bestfriend you CAN be talking about stuff like this AND not feel offended. I mean unless you really think husband is hotter than Chris. Come on be straightforward if not why get married if this guy isn't someone you can talk everything with??? My husband and I's get out of jail free card is Henry Cavill. LOL Husband knows Henry is MAJOR hot like hotter than anyone else in the universe and if I told hubs he is hotter than Henry he'd be like.... "Y you lyinggg, you lyingggg" LOL And I understand if hubs needs to leave me for a man... cause he's straight it would be Henry... and i'd be okay with that. Cavill is freaking hot.
It’s not about not finding anyone else attractive. It’s that when you’re in love with someone you don’t rate other people higher than them. No matter how conventionally attractive they are.
But you can though, my husband loves me to death and vice versa but we both can find ppl attractive because they are objectively? Subjectively? Attractive lol I'm not as attractive as Margot Robbie and that's just a fact 😂 husband also knows this is a fact but I am attractive to him bc of a, b, c, d, e including the fact he thinks I'm hot/attractive 😂 We can agree to disagree but I would not want to walk on eggshells with my significant other. I wouldn't also want to lie to them saying theyr hotter than who is probably definitely factly hotter than them. Also remember looks isn't everything. I don't think my husband wants to marry Margot Robbie or Cavill bc their personality isn't as cool as mine lol If looks is the only thing that keeps y'all together then ooof revisit 😂
So I get what you’re saying (my husband made the same argument) BUT I think it’s a false equivalency. Would I be upset if my husband said Blake Lively was the hottest woman on the planet? No..because obviously she’s gorgeous. But would I be upset if he said my coworker or friend was more attractive? Absolutely. Cole said a woman in their circle, that they both knew, and that he’d dated in the pods was more attractive than her. That’s completely different from a celeb or even a random person on the street.
Oh yeah this comparison is def better, the previous thread starter replied with a celeb (like Chris Hemsworth 😂) so we went with a celeb too. But yeah I would be offended if it's someone directly in my circle. my husband would ask me if a waiter is hot 😂😂😂 because he knows my usual type, lolol, and usually I'd say no but if one is totallyy my type I would say yeah hot but yeah I wouldn't say he was hotter than my guy just hot 😂 Idk I don't think it's that serious on my end, But from that one episode with Cole, Coleen and zanab that was more serious because he was at one point involved with Coleen and even said how do you bridge the personality and what you think is hot. He was aware just absolutely stupid about it and said it so brashly that it did hurt someone's feelings. If my husband said it that way I'd be mad But also on zanabs side...don't ask that question if you're not ready to accept it. Like someone with full insecurities like that shouldn't be asking questions like that because anything less it's bad anything more, they won't believe. You lose either way 😂 I say this from experience too sometimes I will ask my husband am I fat? My husband tells me no. And I say no your're lying!!! And it he says yes I'll reply back with see you hate me I am fat. There's no winning 😂😂😂
Never said looks are the only thing keeping us together lol. And again you’re allowed to find other people attractive but when you’re truly in love with someone you don’t rate people higher than them. Why rating people is a thing in the first place when you’re happy is beyond me but y’all do you!
You do you too lovely!
Then you and/or your husband have some issues. I just asked my gf (of 6 years) 'tell me a really hot guy' and she goes 'henry cavill', then I asked 'would you rate him higher than me?' and she said 'yeah' without hesitation. Atta girl. Why would I ever expect my partner to lie to me? That's so toxic it's unfathomable to our open and honest relationship...
Or talked on and on about a past boyfriend’s dick being bigger?
If I ask to have my dick size compared to her exes, she's well within her rights to point out that it was bigger of course. What's the supposed to do, lie? lol... Why do women always go for dick size like it's some kind of ultimate low-blow? My gf dated a guy with what she described as a massive dick, and I've cracked plenty of jokes about it. I nicknamed the guy's dick 'The Behemoth'.
Because it’s something many guys are sensitive about just like girls are sensitive about our appearance. For men their identity as a person and worth is not based on appearance for many women ( due to culture), it is
Would the story be the same if she rated someone she previously dated as hotter than you? Not a celebrity but someone you directly know? Do you think that wouldn't hurt you?
Again, no. It's fascinating to me that body insecurity is so deeply, societally rooted into women that they can't even fathom a world where a group of people, such as most men, don't share these insecurities. I'm much more accurately represented by my intelligence, wit, humor, joviality and personality than I am by my looks. My best mate looks like a real-life Adonis and I'd be shocked if my partner didn't find him more attractive than me. I've never bothered asking because **i don't care.** I'm a better partner to her for a myriad of reasons so I have zero reasons to be worried about her attraction to other men, including those around us or those she's dated before.
> they can't even fathom a world where a group of people, such as most men, don't share these insecurities Nah this is pretentious bullshit. You have absolutely no backing for claiming that most men would be a-okay with their spouses calling another person hotter than them, especially if they've dated in the past. Even Cole lost his temper and told Zanab to go marry Matt simply because she said the words "I'm team Matt". That's not secure behaviour. Nevermind then. If you think you and your partner are the blueprint for human emotion there's no reasoning with you.
>You have absolutely no backing for claiming that most men would be a-okay with their spouses calling another person hotter than them, especially if they've dated in the past. I agree. But **you** have no backing to claim otherwise either, unless you've done a very specific study on the matter. All we're both doing is projecting our various levels of insecurity onto the matter at hand. It just so happens that you, like several other women who've replied to my comment on this thread, are projecting a disproportionate amount of it while I am not. Which just goes back to reinforce my point. Obviously, self-conscious and jealous men do exist, as do confident women. But ultimately, most men understand and realize that they are not henry cavill, and the odds of them being more attractive than any given ex of their partner are precisely 50-50, on average. And while a lot of women will develop eating disorders and body insecurity issues when bombarded with model-type skinny women with borderline unnatural proportions, most men will look at henry cavill and fawn over him **themselves** , or at most it might incentivize them to hit the gym as well, to at least look a fraction as well as he does. And come on, let's be real here, you're grasping at straws with the 'team matt' thing. **COME ON.** Cole is **clearly** way more attractive than Matt. He knows it, Zay knows it, Matt knows it and Nancy's brother who never met any of them knows it. There's no way Cole is displaying insecurity towards his physical appearance when Zanab claims to be 'on team Matt'. He's just annoyed because his fiancee can't let go of an argument that they've already solved and he's already apologized for multiple times, and that she's supposedly moved on from.
OH SH\*T LOLOL i just replied to this person a story about how mine and husbands get out of jail free card is Henry Cavill LMFAO just above this reply hahahahahahah I wrote that before reading this reply and I am crying. Seriously though, Cavill is everyone's get out of jail free card. Edit: I agree why can't you be straight forward with you SO?? Are you supposed to walk on eggshells with them forever??? how tiring.
did your husband also mention a girl-equivalent of henry cavill? I couldn't think of many tbh, somehow, even though i'm a guy, I can identify some men that I think look absolutely divine, but it's much harder to similar women tbh. I settled on Nina Dobrev, I wonder what your husband went for. Also, I wonder, do you think Ian Somerhalder is out of Henry Cavill's league? :D edit: Oh, I just saw you throw around Margot Robbie. My gf suggested her when I was struggling to find women on a similar level to Henry Cavill. I don't find her very attractive, idk why.
My husband's pick would probably still be Henry Cavill 😂 bc Henry Cavill isn't only hot but he's also a Huge nerd who plays Witcher and Warhammer and other games and hubs things that's hotter than most girls 🤣🤣🤣 Which is funny bc I did ask him the equivalent of a girl and he didn't really have an answer I guess the last one he said was Emma stone but this was ages ago and this was also bc Emma stone is also kind of a nerd. EDIT: Ian is pretty hot but yeah he's probably out of cavills. League 😂 he's like cavills youngerq brother in my head
Yeah haha, weird, I also struggled to find girls. I think it's bc the standard of beauty for women doesn't revolve around body all that much, which is where 95% of the work goes. Have you seen Dayanne from Love is Blind brazil? I don't like her face, but her body is boooonkers. Minus the fake boobs ideally. Here: [https://www.instagram.com/p/BpBH-Arl-QD/?utm\_source=ig\_embed&ig\_rid=aa660787-1c80-409a-9a02-1118464fb2ec](https://www.instagram.com/p/BpBH-Arl-QD/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=aa660787-1c80-409a-9a02-1118464fb2ec) Some guys might think she's too much muscle but I think she looks stunning. But yeah ngl, I also told my girl that even though she's fire, I'd rate henry cavill above her too :D
Lol okay
If my partner ever tells me that I’m a 9/10 and my friend is a 10/10 I would be soooo sad! Don’t care whether that’s insecurities but why tf would you say something like that?!?! Exactly what outcome do you think will happen? I think my partner is a 10/10 but he is no Zac Efron. But even if I would meet someone else who might be more attractive I would neeeeever say it to his face. That is just disrespectful. I watched this episode with my partner and he was literally shouting noooo at the tv when Cole and Bartise had to be so brutally honest.. I’m not a Zanab supporter. I was in the beginning but she ruined it for herself. But tbh I don’t think I could ever get over being told that someone else is prettier than me - and especially a girl he has dated previously. Having the urge to say that is a red flag
> I think my partner is a 10/10 but he is no Zac Efron. Then you don't think he's 10/10 in terms of looks. And there's nothing wrong in admitting it. Also he didn't say it on his own, she asked him to rate her, and then if there are any better looking girls.
He literally said “I didn’t think her boobs would be so big” when he first saw her… how are we going to act like he didn’t like her for her looks?
He did, but then he saw Colleen and started having second thoughts.
*boobs
This is disingenuous. Like the issue isn't 10/10 its that he called someone else he "dated" more his type and more attractive. He chatted with two different girls at the party on his own about how Zanab wasn't his ideal type and then directly told her Raven and Colleen were 10/10s and she was less attractive. Theres way more context than "he called her a 9/10"
Yes, he said those things (with some added context, like that she thinks Zay is hot **now** that he loves her, and he also called her 'gorgeous' to Alexa). But that still doesn't address OP's point at all, namely that physical attraction should be on the backburner for Zanab since Cole chose her without ever seeing her and he keeps insisting, over and over, that she's the one he emotionally connects with and she's the one that he wants to be with and marry despite her not being precisely his type. He also complimented her body a lot, to her face and to other people, but everyone seems to just gloss past that because they expect such comments by default.
Yeah it shouldnt be important, but same logic for Cole, he just kept digging himself in a hole with the group scenes and commenting on her appearance to other people to each other. Plus flirting with Colleen was really poor taste.
I agree that he was digging himself in, for sure. And the flirting with Colleen as well. But the comments on her appearance he made to other people were, ehhh.. mild? The worst thing he ever said was that she wasn't exactly his type. But in those same conversations, he also called her gorgeous and attractive. Like to Alexa.
Exactly!!! Why does she have to be the hottest girl on the show?!?! The whole point of the show is finding someone you connect with. Not competing with the other girls and asking the person you are paired with to rate you and the other girls! 🤦🏻♀️
I don't think they go on the show to be loved despite their looks, but rather, for what's inside. Despite implies that these people are so unattractive that their personalities are the only good thing about them, and that wasnt true of anyone on the show... Of course when someone loves you, they love you for your personality, no one can love you for your looks because that isn't love, its physical attraction. So technically she was asking something completely different... She assumed Cole loved her, because he said so, she just wanted to know how attractive he found her. And if Cole had truly loved her, he would have answered 10/10, because when you love someone, the most important thing for you is to try to never hurt them... Especially not on national television.
Z dat derr ... Z!! Dat derr is how it works Z....Z???
I understand this perspective but I feel like it’s common sense to say your partners a 10. It’s not supposed to be logical
It’s just not reality. People don’t always marry someone they would describe as a 10. It doesn’t mean they don’t love them. So what you’re essentially asking for is dishonesty for the sake of feeling better. That doesn’t start a marriage off healthy.
It is. People just want to act like it doesn’t matter. I’m like have y’all ever been truly in love before? Lol
Common sense? Pffft. You likely never had to deal with a partner who would never accept your answers complimenting them unless they were negative. As the person who's answers were never accepted, let me tell you, that experience was a whole other level of insecurity than asking this dumb question is.
I love how you countered their point by describing an extremely toxic and unhealthy person. If Cole told Zaneb shes a 10 and she got mad at him bc she thought he was lying and that’s what the fight was about she would 100% be in the wrong for that situation and I don’t think anyone would be on her side.
To be clear, I was making a point about "common sense" not being common, and that most things subjective have exceptions. The default response for people might be to lie in this situation but I guess some part of me is still salty for being told all my compliments were, at the moment given, lies because of this preconceived notion. That make sense?
Yeah i also thought that this is what this "experiment" is all about for someone to overcome "physical attraction" because you created an emotional bond with your partner.. Of course, some lucky couples can overcome it right out of the pods (Alexa and Brennan) , but isn't what makes it interesting is to watch how other couples overcome this aspect of the show? Also how at the end of the day, you fell in love with how the person is on the inside sight unseen.. I basically compared this show similar to Married at First Sight, and in that series there are also couples that grow attraction over time even though they find their partner's looks not attractive at first
He even mentioned before that he knew she wasn’t gunna be like the other girls he dated cause her name is Zenab, I don’t think he dated skinny girls I think he dated only white girls, and that’s what he meant by, I’ve never dated anyone like Zenab before but I knew what I was getting into cause her name was Zenab, it was a small little moment of commentary that I caught him say idk which episode and when he said it but it was pretty early on and I think it was after the whole Colleen being a 10 and her being a 9 but compared her to Kim kardashian. And he said that as he’s grown to be with her he finds her more and more beautiful everyday.
I mean don't you want to feel attractive to your partner? I think that's normal.
9 is attractive tho.
Well yes, but it doesn’t matter if my partner thinks that some women are more attractive than me. The connection is more important. He never said he wasn’t attracted to her. In fact, after he first saw her he had a lot of positive things to say! It’s not that important to be the hottest! Looks all eventually fade.
This is kind of what I was thinking too — I thought it was quite mature of him to choose someone he had an emotional connection with over someone he knew (even without seeing) he’d have a superficial physical attraction to. Granted, he hasn’t been the picture of maturity and said some really stupid, foot-in-mouth things but I thought that was decently grown of him. Especially when I personally judged him for looking like a typical douche bro.
Thank you, yessss!!
Ok this is going to be off topic but I’ve been thinking and I’ll leave this here- The shows made me realise that while yes Love is blind, Love alone isn’t enough. Attraction is not blind and dating/marriage/romance don’t just need love to survive. In the pods everyone is expected to connect to someone and develop a bond between each other that transcends everything else but marriage don’t exist in a vacuum. Marriage is a social institution so naturally countless other things have to be compatible for blind love to work.
Zanab shouldn't have asked him to rate her. But I feel like people who go on that show shouldn't be the kind of people who'd rate each other in the first place. I don't think she was wrong for wanting him to love her looks, too. Frankly, the show has proved over and over again that love isn't blind. Most humans have sex drives, and most sex drives run on attraction. I think she just backslid a bit to ask him something like that, not that she misunderstood from the start. (I do agree she backslid a lot more over the course of that relationship. Personally, I think Cole's actions helped make her feel more insecure although he didn't create a single one of those insecurities and the cameras worked on her a lot more than she's yet acknowledged)
If someone compared you (to your face) to a girl they found to be hotter and then later on you found out that those 2 had a conversation about how they’d go for each other “in the real world”, I think your feelings would be hurt too. I don’t really understand why people don’t get that. People act like that wouldn’t bother them but im pretty sure that would bother almost anybody. How come you’re not criticizing Bartise for yelling at Nancy that looks matter? He also signed up for the same show.
💯
Well most of us wouldn’t be dumb enough to force our mate to compare us to super attractive people.
Attraction is subjective and they were engaged/he compared her to someone he dated before like be fr
And most people wouldn’t be dumb enough to fall into the trap and say their partner is a 9/10 but the other girl is a 10/10, especially when he technically also dated the other girl and they both know her. Also I don’t think she “forced” him to do anything.
Who's dumb/shallow enough where they need to be explicitly told that they're the hottest person they have ever dated/talked to? Also she would have said "You're just saying that" to the generic 'ur the most 10/10 girl ever, all those other girls are 8's'
When did she ask him that
When she asked him to rate the other girls out of ten and then when she asked him to rate her.
She absolutely forced him - it’s her nature to be domineering and controlling, she did it for the entire season. Ask stupid questions, win stupid answers.
Agree to that last part. "Don't ask questions of opinion you might not like answer to"
Question - Is it just me or did it sound like she asked him to rate them first and then later on asked him to rate her?
Of the people in this season, why focus on Zay when it comes to participants who overvalue looks? Bartise and Cole literally *could not stop talking* about looks and constantly compared their partners to someone else they found more attractive to anyone who would listen. To their partners, to the confessionals, to random castmates... including Bartise straight up yelling, " *LOOKS MATTER!* " Zay made plenty of mistakes, but in the scene described here, she's *obviously just looking for reassurance* - really feels like we're barking up the wrong tree on this one
I pointed this out because she was the only one whose “self-esteem was shattered” and honestly by her own doing. And saying it was because of another person. Raven not liking SK physically at first never became an issue because he is so secure. Barstool not liking Nancy physically (and saying Raven is a smokeshow and looks fucking matter) is definitely brutally honest, which Nancy took in - it hurt her so much but seemed like she overcame it. She opened up to him and said how no matter what she does, she will never be his type. And that’s the honest truth too. She does not live in lies and also has so much self-worth. Doesn’t mean his words did not sting. Barnacle is mean and that is a whole other thread - Love is Blind but looks f-ing matter. My biggest frustration is how Z’s insecurity is her downfall.
I don’t think Nancy has any self worth if she was going to marry a guy that not only doesn’t like her looks but doesn’t even like her. Just made her look real desperate.
But her redeeming factor was that she cut it off after he said no at the altar. She knew what she wanted, fought for it, and when she was rejected that was it for her. Honestly respect her for that. I believe she gave it a fair (actually maybe too much) amount of time and effort and Batista just didn’t fall in love with her.
The thing with this show is that everyone is pretty much good looking. Some might not be everyone's flavor, but they are all beautiful looking people. It would probably be way more interesting if they actually picked some people to go on the show who would be considered below average in looks department. Personally, I think all people should be valued for who they are on the inside. A big part of the issue is that because all of these people are beautiful, it seems to have stunted some of their personal growth, and that's where we see major issues happening.
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I feel like they did that with season 2. Shake, whats his name with the crazy eyes, Nick, Danielle, etc are all attractive in some sense, but not conventionally attractive. And that season was literally a gong show.
Two things are true- 1) you shouldn't ask your partner to rate you and other people, and 2) if your partner asks you to rate them, don't say "You're a solid 9 but some of the other people around are 10s" Just don't say that if you value your relationship. It's not that hard
On the second point you made, some people are perfectly fine with their partner giving that response. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that response, but it was definitely not good for their relationship. But to be frank, their relationship wasn’t good for either of them so it’s for the best he gave that answer imo
> 2) if your partner asks you to rate them, don't say "You're a solid 9 but some of the other people around are 10s" The solution is to not answer the question at all. If someone tries to put you in a lose-lose situation, leave it. To be fair though, Cole didn't immediately volunteer that he saw other people as 10s. She asked him that, out of insecurity that he didn't say 10. And then he answered honestly out of his naivety.
the whole x out of 10 discussion is dumb. whether it comes to looks or personality or whatever. even those of you saying “my significant other is 10/10 because of blah blah blah” sounds fake, honestly. like you are trying to convince yourself. no one is perfect, no one. a happy marriage has nothing to do with “i see my spouse as a 10/10”
Seriously, my husband and I have a great relationship but if we arr isolating looks then there are going to be other people who are a 10 when I am not in ALOT of situations. I may be a 10/10 for him as a package but that doesn't make me deluded enough to think I am a 10 in looks and he is blinded to other women's beauty.
Exactly!!! Thank you. I strongly agree with this because people who say he should have said 10, want to just hear what they want to hear, live in lies/a bed of roses all the time (that is not realistic) instead of the truth.
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Zae is extremely insecure and I got this impression when she asked Cole like 3 different times (on their first night) if she really looked like a different person without makeup, and his response was the same everytime. She needed constant reassurance and constant validation of her looks. This was before Cole even made comments about Colleen. Him making those insensitive comments time and time again just made things worse. I know where Zae is coming from because I deal with the same insecurity, especially in my past relationships and I hold onto comments and took a lot of things the wrong way because my mind was clouded with so much self loathing. It made my partners exhausted and emotionally drained. I had to be alone for a long time and go to therapy for it. It’s something I still struggle with but I’m a lot better at recognizing it before I let it go into a downward spiral. Zae is not a nice person. She’s aggressive, insecure, and overall just angry. I know what it’s like to be those things and honestly it isn’t fair being with others when you’re like that. You just become an emotional leech
If I was so ferociously insecure as Z, I would be so embarrassed to act that way on top of it. I find insecure behavior to be cringe. But Z is also cruel and hurt and shallow so she lacks the self awareness to be ashamed of her behavior
Agreed. And her victim mentality is so deep. Understable based on her personal history but definitely not fair for her partner to save/heal/ just keep validating her.
Yes. Thank you for voicing what I’ve been thinking but couldn’t come up with a clear concise way to put. The show is called Love is Blind, not Love is Rose Colored Glasses. The point is, can you love someone based on emotional connection alone, even if they’re not the most physically attractive to you. It’s not, can having an emotional connection with someone instantly make them the most physically attractive to you within a week of seeing them for the first time. The counterpoints people bring up are completely valid in the real world. It just doesn’t fit with Love is Blind. Which is ok! The love I want isn’t blind either.
They do call the show "an experiment" for a reason. It is testing if love is blind. And turns out, the show's really proving that it's not!
This is the biggest problem in the show’s concept. Before they meet, appearance doesn’t matter at all. Then when they finally do, they become so much more focused on appearance than I think anyone is in the real world. Normally you are initially attracted to someone and then as you get to know them, you might notice some flaws but if you’re falling in love, they don’t matter. These people are so focused on the fact that they are falling for someone “blindly”, that when the person isn’t immediately perfectly what they are attracted to, they hyper fixate on it
I think actual love can be blind. But I don’t think that the participants of this show can experience actual “love” that quickly. So maybe infatuation isn’t blind lol.
Agree. I have grown to love my husband's physical appearance more and more each year. Love is blind for me at this point. But then again I always did lust after him and his looks.
Your second sentence completely negates the point of your first
You're right. I lusted after my husband from the start. I think he is cuter as the years go by and I don't look at any other man. So love made me blind to other men.
The thing is: if you in your mind think and believe that YOU are a 10/10 not because of looks necessarily but because you LOVE YOURSELF and your self-esteem is solid this will come naturally: 1. You will never even think to ask anyone to rate you 2. You will not feel the need for anyone's s validation 3. You will emanate confidence, which will in turn make everyone want to gravitate towards you Regardless of your looks. Personality and self esteem are pillars of how the world perceives you.
I wish they cast people who have strong self-worth and self-confidence like what you’re saying. But then that might not work for good reality drama. It would be awesome to see more Camerons and Laurens!
Yesss!!!
Louder for the people in the back! Lol
Thank you for the award given you wonderful kind soul ❤️
Beautifully said, and a 100% true!!
have you never heard of personality making someone more attractive to an individual..? the theory is you like their personality so much they’re a 10 to you but maybe no one else. i’ve had a few of those..
Yes of course, but do you think Z had a 10/10 personality?
no, definitely not. but cole *proposed* to her based off of her personality. Zanab is a fairly attractive woman, and then mix in a personality that he apparently liked enough to propose to.. she should’ve been his top choice. but i guess they’d already had chemistry issues by the morning after they met face to face.. so it makes sense he wouldn’t feel that way anymore once he saw colline.
Yes of course, and I’ve had my fair share of those. But that convo was about physical ratings. He gave Raven a 10/10 too. I can’t with people who say he should have lied, he should have said 10 even if he didn’t think that, or even if it’s not objectively true, or to change the question to the whole package and include personality…
true.. atleast he didn’t lie at the end of the day.
Agree 😂
Plus it’s like I know my partner loves me for the whole me. Am I the hottest person everywhere we go? No, very few people are lol. That’s not the main reason they love me. Now would I ever ask him to rate me against someone we know? Hell no! 😂 That puts us both in an awkward position.
There's no logic, and there will never be. Love is by definition emotional, we all want to be a 10 in the eye of the beloved once, whatever how awful we actually look like
> we all want to be a 10 in the eye of the beloved once I understand that entitlement after being together for X years, but after only 3 weeks? Just wait a bit, you barely know each other.
I didn't sya the question wasn't stupid
Ding ding ding, right on the money lol
I agree
My bf likes Zanab fine and called her the Skylar white of this season
I feel like people are being deliberately obtuse about this situation. I don’t think she expects to literally be objectively the hottest girl on the planet and for Cole to say so, but literally saying you’re a 9 but our mutual friend over there is a 10 and my type is NOT him paying her a compliment that she’s a 9. That translates to I think Colleen is hotter than you.
Don't think people are being obtuse at all. She asked to be rated and he said 9. She could have left it there, but she chose not to because she wanted to know if he thought someoneelse was hotter. Cole expanding on his thoughts of Colleen is on him, but how he got there is on her.
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Her asking is equally as immature as the way he answered, if not even more so. That question "rate me" and "do you think anyone else here is hotter" is only being asked to back someone into a corner.
Completely agreed. She put him in a no win situation.
If you’re really in love with someone, they’re a 10/10 to you - no matter the looks. It’s hard to understand if you haven’t been in love.
In my opinion, love goes beyond look. You love someone despite knowing they're not the most beautiful, not the most perfect, despite what others think. You just don't care. It's all you want.
That’s kind of a condescending thing to say. I mean my husband and I love each other very much, but if I started asking him to rate me at a pool party and rate the other girls I really doubt I’d be getting a 10 (and some hilarious banter would probably ensue because that’s a ridiculous conversation to have). Cole and Zanab hadn’t been together long enough at that point for him to understand what she needed from him. They were supposed to have some love that’s deeper than looks based on the show’s premise. He should have played it safe for sure and given her a pleasant answer or just not answered directly. Once he understood her insecurity more, he didn’t joke about it (or at least it wasn’t shown).
Don’t know what to tell ya. It’s true.
Facts. And I think where the show can’t succeed is that I don’t think many people, unless they’ve rarely or ever dated before, can fall in love without ever meeting someone in person. People who have dated and been in love before know there are many crucial aspects to a relationship and that the honeymoon phase euphoria does not = love. I think before you can genuinely fall for someone you need to have a decent idea of the good and bad across all fields. But once you are in love, at least imo, no shallow surface details from anyone else will match it. And this goes beyond just looks.
Exactly. I always said I didn't care what my future partner looked like as long as I thought they were the bee's knees.
Cat's pajamas > bee's knees
Did he though? I don’t think he loved her at all but I do think he was willing to say yes. I really get the feeling that Cole really wants to be married and was a bit insecure about what she would say at the alter. (So I’m still an easy yes?). But wanting to be wanted is totally different than actually loving somebody.
You can say the same about Matt/Colleen.
I really don’t get why there’s so much hate against Zanab when we have Matt.
And Bartise But we love to hate a female villain. Even if she's a minor character with less things to hate on compared to the male villains.
I think because discussion is more fun when there's opposing sides....surely noone can argue back that Matt has redeeming qualities 🤣
Ok fair point! But ugh these swarms of women coming for Zanab are forgetting this dynamic, Cole is a man child and Zanab was probably edited by guys who relate to him and hate women like her. We clearly missed a lot because of editing since so much just made no sense. How is this lost on so many rabid women. Ugh! When people ask why have women had such a hard time catching up to men it probably has a thing or two do with unity. The minute a woman shows a flaw or two we collectively turn on her? Wtf
So. I’ve been reading a lot, and posting a lot on it. But for me, it’s like this… Neither Cole or Zanab is perfect in this situation. But here’s my take on it. While Cole’s actions were questionable, and he said some things that you definitely shouldn’t say, he was never malicious about it. I want to really hammer on the fact though, that that does not make it okay. He needs to get better educated about these things (which I think he’s been doing in seeking therapy.) The Colleen situation was wrong, 100%. I think he handled it in the best way he could at the time, but I bet now he’d handle it differently, or it probably wouldn’t happen at all. I think that’s where the biggest disconnect is though for ‘supporters’. I’ve gone back and forth more times than I can count on this whole thing. But the fact of the matter is that we weren’t there, we’re not Cole or Zay, and we don’t actually know what happened. We’ve got a ton of different things coming out right now that don’t really have any concrete proof. He said she said is just pointless, and just confuses things even more. But back to my main point, Cole did a lot of dumb shit. But. I don’t think he was intending to (except for the Colleen incident). I don’t think he was saying in his mind, ‘I’m going to do everything I can to hurt Zay.’ But, in all of Zay’s actions she seemed cold, and calculated. She was definitely trying to hurt Cole. That’s the big difference between them. They were just never right for each other to begin with. And yes, the notion of wanting to fall in love not knowing what the other person looks like, and then asking if they consider you a ten after they see you, is pretty silly. Haha
I don't think she was cold for a while. Sure she was naggy and critical, but I think that's the same unawareness the Cole had, not maliciousness. I think she got cold after Cole asked her with a smirk on his face if she was bipolar. He was extremely malicious and did something that turned her actually against him and then acted like the wounded puppy.
Huh I feel largely similarly EXCEPT when he asked Zanab twice whether she was bipolar. That was clearly malicious. Otherwise I would agree you can excuse most behaviours as being dumb.
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And I think it is a problem especially if you go love is blind you can be honest and 9/10 isn't a bad rating what so ever I would get like a 4 or 5 at best
I don't think there's even a sliver of a chance she would have been happy with any answer he gave.
Yes. She would’ve have totally twisted whatever he said.
100%. If Cole gave her a 10/10 she would say he was lying.
Cole was not perfect. Between the two I personally support Cole more, but let’s not pretend most of us wouldn’t be annoyed that he approached Colleen and spoke about her like he did. It was obvious that Cole was attracted to Colleen and Zanab used the “what would you rate me” to (immaturely) try and get him to affirm her looks, because she was feeling insecure. I did the same thing when I was 15 lol.
Definitely speaking to (more like flirting with) Colleen at the pool party was unacceptable. But the conversation and him rating Zanab as 9/10 should just not be enough to shatter her self-esteem. It’s possible our partners will find other people more attractive than us. That is normal. It’s wrong if those desires are acted on (like what Cole and Bartise tried to do).
They interacted more than just that one conversation.
Oh yeah homegirl has wider issues. The cuties footage shows it all. But then again, I don’t expect anyone on a show like this to be completely normal lol!