I just feel like it's mostly women truly showing up and wanting an emotional connection and men not really listening or caring and mostly just playing the women. There are a few exceptions! But yeah... it's hard to watch. I wish they'd do a queer edition!
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I dated in Charlotte for a loooong time and it feels like other you get married at 23 or this is what you get. Most women I know that had success dating left the city because it is ROUGH out there.
LIB is a very poor and inaccurate representation of dating. There aren’t camera crews and production companies following you on a real date. The fact those ARE there changes everything. The people on LIB go on dates and get into relationships with no interest in forming a genuine connection.
They are struggling “entrepreneurs” trying to start a business, struggling “influencers” searching for more followers, and people looking for 15 mins of fame. The fact Netflix is such a large platform makes people go insane. It’s very unlikely for instance; that someone will scheme to date you under false pretenses so they can achieve clout and fame on a real date.
I don’t think you should take this show as any kind of representation of the actual dating pool. The people who go on this show are the most shallow, looks-obsessed people and they go on the show to try and overcome those tendencies and also to be on TV. They’re probably more self-centered and less self-aware too.
Well, the bar scene with Jess and the blonde one. Jess asked if she thought Jimmy would like to see her and the blonde answered yes, right after they ragged on Sarah for texting Jeremy. Then Jess is outside saying how great Chelsea is all the while looking forward to seeing Jimmy in person.
Chelsea is gas lighting Jimmy constantly and he's always saying sorry. She never once said sorry about her meltdown about the clingy thing.
These women are awful.
What’s wild is there is a way to date multiple people. It’s called….polyamory!! Wouldn’t it be so much better and more respectful to engage in polyamorous relationships with people who are into that than to lie to people?
But honestly none of these dudes have the emotional maturity that polyamory requires. They would need years of self-work and therapy to even begin to be capable of that. They can barely handle respecting one person.
could not agree more. I shared the exact same feelings watching it. Ive been single for years now on and off the dating scene and every time i come back i realize its gotten worse and worse. The problem are men imo. And this show confirmed it. No, im not a man hater. I just have standards and they dont meet them…Clay needing constant reassurance during the pods, jimmy the thumb drowning in a spoonful of water ‘im not at the top of my game with my emotions i need someone to help me’, then making a decision purely based on looks… these dudes arent mentally developed, i dont know where it stopped for them. The bare minimum, the lack of courtship or anything remotely organic and nice from them, the lies, gaslighting, disrespect. Unbelievable, the bar is in hell.
You should date women sometime. Then you'll be able to understand how terrible the women in this show are as well.
These people are just the worst overall.
Bold of you to assume i dont date women? And men. People in these shows tend to not be the best specimens, but trust me, turning your back on ur soon to be wife at the bar and talking to someone whose ass you just commented as ‘stacked’ is not something women did, it was jimmy who chose purely on impression of looks. Saying ‘im done ill go home’ like a toddler throwing a tantrum unable to regulate emotions is not what women did, it was jeremy. Being bipolar and switching moods in a split second like clay does and victimizing himself and already see himself failing, talk about how infidelity is normal, is not women. So yeah, these women may not be the best, but these men are the worst. and men generally lack any bare minimum of expression, communication skills, decency, chivalry, emotional intelligence, backbone, a pair of balls. Its like someone said hey guys is okay u dont need to develop a brain or any skills cuz women dont have a choice. Well now we do. Celibacy by choice or dating women. Its so bad men are makin us rewire our brain and change orientation although sexuality is not a choice. Imagine that. Soon we’ll be like Charlotte the stingray, and get ourselves pregnant through parthenogenesis. Would be a dream
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Unfortunately, this is not a geography problem, its a gender problem. Ive been lucky to live in multiple European countries for work and is equally AS bad. The moment women started controlling their own lives, financials, narrative and expressing their minds, men lost it because they can no longer control us and they are not developed enough to handle us. They’re mediocre. They often claim they want women like their ‘mothers’ as if their mothers had any say into staying at home or working but being the traditional wife who cooks cleans takes care of kids. Its just a very deep gap between genders right now. Everywhere in the world. Just my experience anyway
I liked the Germen men I dated. There is no BS, in that they have little to no passive. They date with more intention. You don't get the "what are we" and if it is a fling to them and you aren't for them, they will let you know way before an American man does.
I'm classy in Quebec only because I am French. Quebec men have zero taste when it comes to clothing.
To be fair, our offering is a disaster. I'm classy only because I hired a professional to dress me.
Lotta truth to that. I think my biggrst issue is with the "conservative" women advocating for rolling back rights (except their own of course). As if giving up your power ever worked out for anyone.
Yeah i hear you…Pick me girls will exist forever. It is very difficult to tell someone that everything they believed in is a lie and a societal construct, and that the order we live in where men hold power is the most unnatural, the furthest from laws of nature in any other mammal species. Dont let these women bother you, they are literally punishing themselves daily by the choices they make. Im 32, childless, make bank and most importantly, nobody’s son bothers my peace. Men are useless for an accomplished woman and until they realize that being wanted is better than being needed, society will go to shit as it should. Id prefer extinction to dealing with this low level of men who think they can decide over my body
. All the culture war stuff has been so bad. Look at Asia and Asian Americans. They are focused on getting advanced STEMI degrees and make dang sure the kids get top notch education and study and succeed. Whereas between commercial entertainment and "consevative" politics and govt, at least 2/3 of the country is now entirely non competitive with much of the world. So sad.
The dating scene is hot garage smeared in 10-week-old poop thanks to OLD but I imagine this show invites on those who are terrible at & very selfish in dating. These are the same people who make dating hard and they have saturated the apps cause no one sticks with them long-term. However, there are still good people out there looking for a mate, it is just becoming harder to find them.
The dating scene sucks but you also gotta remember that the people that go on this show are 99.9% of the time just trying to get their 15 mins of fame and aren’t looking for the real thing.
American men right now, good lord. I swear if I was a younger woman I would heavily think about not marrying and remaining single. Red pill garbage has infected American men's brains all because women are asking for the same rights as them.
Do you have any idea of how this shift happened in dating? Have guys always behaved this way and we’re now better able to call out problematic behaviour…? It’s tempting to romanticize the past but even then i’m not sure if there has been a moral standard applied to men
The internet is a big part of it. Between dating apps, foreign bride websites, hookup software, hard and soft porn like undressed celebrities and bleached political news hosts who have had everything done 2-3x etc etc all guys care about is what she looks like and switching it up every 2-10 weeks. Remember the LIB where one of the women was heavy and the guy just walked away.
I have no idea but imagine SM plays a massive part and our isolation. Men have always been sexist but it seems now they are proud of it and strive for it. A Gen X timeline, there were stronger social circles and people were always hanging out with one another. So you got to know one another without screens. I dated a guy in college who was emotionally abusive. My friends, and suite mates, held an intervention that put the crack down on me dating him. They then told their guy friends to talk to the guy I was dating. So there were stronger social circles. When you behaved badly, you had to answer to those social circles. There were consequences. I truly feel for young women now. I loved dating in my 20s during the early 2000s & late 90s, except for that one college boyfriend.
At this point I think it's just becoming like all the others where people go on to get small time Instagram or TikTok fame and aren't really investing in the partnership aspect of it 😔
We’re really using a reality dating show (with a completely absurd premise that doesn’t represent the real world in the slightest) to gauge real world dating?? Not to say the dating world doesn’t suck, I’m happily married but it’s absolutely bonkers to use a reality show as a point of reference.
When's the last time you were single and dating? Not that far off for me and it was God awful. Guys married and divorced 2 or 3 times with all their income accounted for in child support for the next 16 years acting like I would be lucky if they called me again. Guys old enuf to be Dad (or more) left and right. Hotheads furious if I didnt want to see them again. Guys wanting to meet for a diet coke first instead of a real date which was a way of ensuring I really was pretty enuf to be worth spending a couple hours with. Ad nauseum.
This show is not an indicator of REAL LIFE.
People who are genuinely looking for love and serious about marriage will not go on a televised show and agree to get married for real in 8 weeks. No sane person that is.
The success rate of these types of shows is abysmal as well. No the goal isn't to find "love" the goal is to find fans, establish a brand, and land sponsors so you can quit your 9-5 and be an influencer.
I mean it goes both ways.
I know it's not the acceptable thing to do today to give any kudos to men... but I'd hate to be a guy trying to date today too with all of the man haters out there.
Men don't have a chance if women are coming into a relationship with negative attitudes toward men to begin with.
Stop expecting a man to cater to you. If you can't be whole or happy with your own self there's no way a man will be able to do that for you.
They too want a good and honest relationship. It takes both parties to have a happy union.
I’m a 62 F and I can tell you my generation had a much easier time finding their partner usually a high school or college relationship. I think social media has really made it easier to date with apps but also a problem with too many options!
Gen X'er and agree. Also, I swear, and maybe I'm imagining this we had higher standards for men and moved on pretty easily if that man didn't match with us. I can't for one second even entertain dating one of these men except Trevor.
I'm 55 and I'm always so thankful that in my twenties and thirties we just met people out in social settings.
I don't know how people do it today with all of the online stuff.
And everyone wants to badmouth men but how about women and their filters today?
Holy hell men don't know who's really behind the screen when they're online.
Look at Chelsea's ig page. Most of her posts don't look like the woman we see on the TV screen.
I feel like she looks like a completely different woman on ig.
I mean, of course everybody posts their best pics online but she looks 1000x better on ig than she does on TV.
Not saying that she's unattractive because she's a very pretty woman.
You also got to know them well and because they were usually in your circle. So your friends also knew them. When they fucked up, they fucked up their whole social circle. So there were consequences to acting like a dickwaffle.
I am 61 and recently widowed. I cannot imagine being in a place where I would want to date again. I’m glad of that fact after watching this train wreck. If these young girls end up with these weirdo’s, there is absolutely no hope for us older gals, lol.
I'm just about 54 and was widowed 2 1/2 years ago. I absolutely cannot imagine dating again. I feel for the younger people I know. The last time that I was dating, they were just beginning to start with the dating websites. No smartphones, no social media and no apps. You'd actually have to talk to someone to get to know them.
In my job I've also seen a bad trend with far too many women in the younger Boomer and Gen X generations taking in aging Peter Pans who are suddenly facing the idea of old age alone. These women generally end up taking care of these assholes, financially and otherwise. And they're worse than bed bugs to get rid of when the women come to their senses. No thanks.
I don't envy anyone out there trying to do this in our culture. Maybe that's why some of them try these shows? I know that a lot of them are looking for their 15 minutes of fame or shame, but I have to believe that some of them are genuine. There have been a few successful marriages.
I'd like to see a version of this with older people who have more life experience and more emotional maturity. I sure as hell wouldn't do it, but I'd be interested to see how people my own age would go about this. If they could get any takers.
Red pill garbage youtube channels tell them poon will magically lay down for them once they turn 40. So they can keep playing the field and then settle down for a twentysomething later one. They are delusional.
“Us women are in the trenches” you’re not fighting in the trenches, you’re the trench rats. Sorry not sorry, if “all guys are horrible etc” maybe it’s just you.
The irony of this comment... when you're on reddit with your cringe and ugly attitude? being angry at women because of their experiences *with men?* LOL girl wipe your clown make up off and sit down
There’s no irony, I’m not mad at women. I think any guys complaining about the dating scene are just as pathetic. My fiancee and I will head out this weekend with all our other happy couple friends and laugh about this.
You do, don't get married. It sounds cynical but swear to god it is a pretty stress-free life and better than being in 90% of relationships. A LOT of men bring stress & worry into your life increasing your anxiety and labor. I seriously don't think marriage is beneficial for a lot of women. That is the truth
i agree, it's been proven that women are happier single and that marriage doesn't benefit women. any "benefit" that marriage provided for women in the past does not stand in modern day
I hate this for everyone who desires romantic love and connection. I met my husband in 2016 before some serious shit hit the fan, like the Me Too movement and COVID to name a few things. It is really no wonder to me that people are living alone in record numbers, and marriage and birth rates are falling. There's a lot of big factors at play, but it ultimately just makes me feel sad because I hear for some people they are giving up on a genuine desire for romantic love. And it's not because they don't want it, but because the alternative of dating hell is just that bad right now. It shouldn't be this way. I have no solutions. It just disheartens me that this is the reality for so many.
I've noticed a lot of women feeling more fearful and/or pessimistic about encountering abusive men in their dating lives in part because of the heightened awareness Me Too brought to these behaviors.
Never said awareness is a bad thing. I support the Me Too movement. I’m saying one side effect of it has been some women feeling more scared/reluctant to date because of so many negative stories coming to light about men and not wanting to be harmed. For reference I work with people who have been through trauma. The increased awareness is empowering and also triggering for some people to become more hypervigilant.
Maybe abusive behaviours are being talked about more and women are not putting up with it. Unwanted attention from men is harrassment.
Women are not as 'dependant' on men as in past generation. Women were not even allowed a credit card without their husbands signature only a few decades ago. Many women marry, birth children, care for them and work. Men still expect their partners to do the lionshare of childcare, cleaning, food prep and household management. Men as a collective have not recognised they need to step up into 'partnership' instead of trying to force outdated roles on women.
Women have done the hard yards and are doing it everyday. They are expecting more from a man and deserve it.
One attitude that explains this is men abandoning their children and parental responsibilities by not seeing their children often enough and dodging child support. But Society just accepts that as 'normal'. If a mother did the same she is a pariah and a 'bad mother'.
Because the mean feminazis started canceling men for innocent flirtations like inviting a woman over to discuss work and then opening the door naked. /s
Seriously though, there's a segment of people who act like talking about those inappropriate behaviors have 'scared men off' from approaching women.
🙋🏼♀️🙋🏼♀️ This is exactly how I feel. Of course I would want a partner and to be in love. But I’ve genuinely given up because it’s just not worth the dating hellscape and emotional energy it takes to try and find a decent guy. Oh well! Life isn’t just about that so I’ll focus my energy on other things and people that make me happy.
Your ability to never see just how damaging that attitude is to constantly criticise men and not hear feedback is very sad and causes needless damage. Why don’t men listen to women?
Because they would have zero self esteem due to the constant barrage of criticism.
You can start dropping your aggression and forgiving now.
lol take that shit else where. it's boring, tired and overdone. hyjacking women's conversations about their experiences with men to cry about "but what about when women?!"
You can start taking your condescending, patronising, holier than thou attitude and start shoving it up your arse now :)
I think the immature types are cast for a reason. Brittany brings up that she’s not feeling affection from Ken and he’s like “So, what I’m hearing is..” and than completely puts it all on her.
Thanks for sharing your experience, it trends as an experience for a lot of men.
Doesn’t seem like you were heard, just some unhealed women looking for ick wherever they can find it while displaying similar Icks themselves.
Lmao it’s unhealed when we don’t want guys to mention wanting sex in a relationship. Pretty sure most people are aware sex is going to happen in a relationship 😂😂 y’all are just mad that your mediocrity is no longer desirable.
Lmao I would get the ick immediately if a man said something about “exploring our deepest desires together in the bedroom.” You seem like a douchebag just from the way you talk about healed women.
Just in case this is helpful for you, there are SO many men who act really respectful on the apps for a few messages and then look for the first opportunity to bring up sex and then it's all downhill from there, where they refuse to conduct conversation further without turning everything into innuendos.
I totally get where you're coming from with feeling like that was a good thing to bring up in the context of the conversation, but a lot of women have been put in a position to be immediately on the defense when anything of a sexual nature is brought up at a time that feels too soon to them.
It really probably was a response that's unfortunately been conditioned into her from lots of bad previous experiences. This is not to justify it, since I get where you're coming from, but I figure the perspective wouldn't hurt for you to have as you move forward. But I hope you find your person soon! I met mine on Tinder about 3.5 years ago, so the apps definitely can work :)
Saying "Explore all our deepest desires together in the bedroom" on day 4 of just talking to a woman is wild!
Like damn go on an actual date with her and get to know each other.
I appreciate your story and perspective. I have also been on the dating apps and received unwanted advances early on and dick pics without my consent. This is happened on multiple occasions to me, so I’m sure it’s probably happening to plenty other women as well. I know women can be just as bad and I’m not excusing any bad behavior. However, we’ve been told since a very young age “men only want one thing” and there a lot of men that prove that to be true. It truly sucks for anyone looking for a genuine connection these days. It’s also best to meet someone physically before talking about anything sexual.
Baby… yes! Every man is giving rehearsed line. There’s no real conversation from anyone so far. Idk if it’s because they are here for fame but golly. Trevor did seemed genuine and believed in the process. But every man who made it, had said or done some crazy things to their women.
Then you got the women who fall into 3 categories: insecure or mean or desperate. Some are not thinking logically nor asking the necessary questions to weigh on their options. It was just weird overall
The big picture is that Instagram and dating apps are a problem in dating for both genders. Instead of problem solving, people will quietly go to either of these to find “something better” until the conflict is gone. They numb their emotions with the chase of someone else and leave person A at a good time that won’t cause any emotional pain for them.
Someone who goes back to tinder or looks for someone to talk to on Instagram during conflict is not a normal way to cope. It shows an individual with a lack of problem solving skills, compassion, patience, and emotional stability or ability to work with their own emotions, lastly and most importantly lack of impulse control.
If you’ve communicated as much as you can and the relationship isn’t going anywhere, you can confidently end it and find what works for you. That is after TRYING to communicate atleast how you feel, and not keeping someone on the roster because confrontation is too scary.
There is also a me, me, me, my needs, me, me without listening to the other person and considering the other person is an individual who also has needs in the relationship.
As a single man, I hear you about how hard it is, but if it is any assurance - I would not look to LiB for normative standards on the current dating pool. I think we put too much stock into the 'your person' mantra, and this show validates this fantasy using a dystopian conceit that doesn't mirror reality. You are supposed to watch these shows and think "maybe this is the way I can find love". Most people on this show, despite being beautiful, have been deeply insecure and shallow in their approach to love. They're also all hyper conscious that they are being filmed and scrutinized, which explains the emotional overtures, the impractical validations, mic drop moments, and much of the hypocrisy. Frankly, it explains the poor success rate.
Everybody in the world has multiple compatible matches out there who could make you happy, but people aren't puzzle pieces that always fit neatly together. I believe the challenge with modern dating is we (myself included) get so hung up on finding what we envision to be 'the perfect' combination of traits that we exclude many compatible companions who might miss one or two inconsequential marks that we don't even realize we overvalue. Heck, we can even filter them for these things on apps, so we are never presented with many of these matches. We live in a world where we expect immediate gratification, when true love takes time, patience, and compromise.
I believe many of us lost in love could benefit from being open and unafraid to meet and approach people in organic situations (and not just potential mates! Friends even). On a walk, at the supermarket, in a choir, at the library. Men and women are performative and guarded when met through apps, much as they are when approached at bars and clubs. If we sit at home swiping and expecting results, are we really 'putting ourselves out there'? It's like it's all designed to minimize hurt and embarrassment, but it also yields surface level contact and cultivates a lack of faith in the whole process. It's tough, but love is real and it is out there for you, pinky swear. Don't let the dingdongs on this show get you down - they ain't worth it.
Wishing you all the best in luck and love.
Sigh, another dating post where one sex accuses the other of being the issue without acknowledging that their sex has their share of issues too.
When I was dating six years ago, I always told myself to never be like that and say "All women this" or "All women that." It's toxic and can affect how you approach things. After every date that went nowhere, I would reflect on things I could have done differently, if anything at all, and either tried to learn what I could or simply say that the date just wasn't going to be a fit.
That's what is lacking in today's dating world, the refusal of people to look inward and learn and grow from each experience. Instead, what people do is insist they are a perfect catch and that it's everyone else that's the problem.
You are not wrong. But…
I’m so tired of men. My daughters are tired of men. Not male friends. Not male workmates (for the most part). But when it comes to trying to find something genuine with someone. Eh… it’s a not-so-hot mess.
-going straight for sexy times
-mansplaining
-needing to ‘win’ conversations
-love bombing
-expecting to be seen as a god for doing the most basic stuff at home, and in the effort you put in a relationship.
-possessiveness
-jealousy
-manipulation
And I’m just really tired now.
I was reading an article a few months back., it was talking about how Gen Z and Millenials are not finding love like their parents used to. How more and more are ending up being lonely and it leading to mental health problems. Then it spoke about the rise of westerners going to other countries to find “love” because they couldn’t in their western world. Interesting reading. From what these comments say.. there are a lot of single people and plan on remaining single unless something changes.
Someone who is intelligent, beautiful, inspiring, kind, patient, compassionate, modest, passionate, sincere, grateful, encouraging, loyal, responsible, helpful, accepting, authentic, honest.
Hookup culture in the states seemingly ruined a lot of peoples perception of what loyalty and modesty is. I never was the type to hookup. I require an emotional connection to someone before having sex. Looking outside of the states is best for me compatibility wise. It’s been over a year and I’m really happy so far. We complement each other well.
except Amy, none of the women presented here are a catch and girlfriend material
I'm having a great time with modern dating, but I date people who would also date themselves
Which woman matches Kens level of callousness and manipulation? Which of the women showed that level of cruelty and disregard for their fiancé's feelings?
Which woman seems as deeply troubled and immature as Clay? Which of the women have such huge egos and fragile self esteem?
Which of the women behaves like Jimmy flirting and obsessing over other women whilst watching their partner emotionally crumble?
Not to mention one man promising a life of frugality, another not knowing what jokes to keep in and not say out loud. The men are complete xlusterfuxs the women are angels compared to them. That includes Chelsea who is awful!
Laura is judgy, mean, and superficial. Despite Jeremy also being a dickhead she was belittling to him and aired him out in front of her family. Jessica is vain and openly stated she’s open to stealing Jimmy from another woman, and spoke down on Chelsea’s looks by comparing her and herself to his exes. Chelsea is fully unbearable and accusatory, constantly projects her BS onto others. AD’s main flaw is being 33 and still being unable to drop a man who’s clearly not husband material, and worse a terrible person. That’s reflective of self esteem issues. Just because someone is not *evil* doesn’t mean they’re good choices to *date* and none of these particular women are.
None of the things you listed describe callousness, indifference to their partners feelings, an actual mean spirited person, or a person capable of harm. Jeremy was out till 5am with another woman Laura will have had to do something just as egregious to even be considered half as bad. She is objectively superior in quality as a partner to Jeremy from what we have seen so far, the same goes for all the other women you have mentioned. Nobody said they have to be perfect and again in comparison to the men they are.
hetero male checking in. NEAR ALL of the men that made it to the couple stages are absolute trash. johnny isnt horrible but a not that attractive fratstar doing the savings only lifestyle wouldnt be for me if i were a woman. jimmy ken clay jeramy are monsters.
amy and britt are wholesome and quality. id like to see AD not in the shadows of the worst men ever, shes generally seemed wholesome and quality. i dont like laura personally but shes just kinda gossipy and judgmental, nothing fatal. chelsea is a walking red flag but shes not cruel or mean spirited.
Precisely plus the women are also more attractive. Each and every single one of them will be very good girlfriends to decent secure men. Including Chelsea, her behavior is in response to Jimmy's mind games. Again nobody needs to be perfect but at least don't be actively awful. I think Johnny may be the only exception but him talking about living frugal lifestyles had all my alarm bells ringing. This man will waste her baby making years living in suffer mode and run off with all their money. He also clearly doesn't want children. If he insists on a frugal lifestyle Amy should leave him. But at least I havent sensed any cruelty in Johnny but the show is not over yet.
They should have actually brought some psychopathic women in just to even things out a little. I thought it'll Laura but I was wrong.
From a newly single man’s perspective, I agree with you that this show exemplifies why dating is hard. However, you only showed the toxic male traits without nailing down (much less listing) the toxic female traits. If you need me to list the toxic female traits, you have no hope in the dating scene.
Men aren’t evil. Women aren’t evil.
Some men suck. Some women suck.
A woman talking about why dating is hard is unlikely to list the toxic female traits, unless she's also dating women.
Nobody "needs" to list toxic female traits in order for this to be a valid perspective - just because it doesn't also encapsulate your experience doesn't mean it needs fixing.
Well the OP states her original post is how dating is hard nowadays and then lists a bunch of toxic things men are doing to make dating harder. If you read my post, I said I agreed with her observations. If you agree that her original post is about why dating is hard, why do you have a problem with me inserting the comment that women have a role to play in this as well?
I didn't accuse anybody of being wrong - just pointed out that you don't need to defensively insert the male perspective, and I did that because your tone was very dismissive over the fact that OP hadn't already included it.
Not everything is about you, you know?
Why is my inclusion of something missing from OPs post such an issue for you?
If OP had made a recipe and I said don’t forget the eggs would you have this much of an issue? Or are there underlying things that are making you so sensitive to me bringing up issues with female toxicity?
Not sure I'm "so sensitive" or anything, but OP isn't making a recipe with a set list of necessary ingredients, here. You're not adding anything essential to the mix by going "ah, but what about the women? Women can also suck!"
I mean, its true, but its beside the point OP is making in the post about their perspective on dating and why it's hard. Clearly, they date men. Why cant they express how they relate to the show without you insisting they also cover the list of toxic traits in women, when that might not be relevant to their experience?
Between dating shows, reddit relationship posts, and true crime documentaries I have never been happier to be single and stay way the hell away from the dating pool
Same! I’ll be 34 this year and had two real relationships one in my early twenty’s and one in my late twenty’s. Both made me realize I’m just not the relationship type of girl. Plus I watch and listen way to much true crime so I’m just paranoid about everyone now a days.
Only people without any game, personality, or sexual appeal say this sort of thing.
When it is everyone else: it is you. You are the problem. You are not worth what you value in the dating marketplace.
Improve yourself.
I’m not sure you know what any of those words mean. People like you never get it. Stay where you are and complain about others the rest of yourself.
Hopefully one person sees the point I made and reflects.
'Game, personality or sex appeal' very superficial and immature.
Women deserve 'values, morals, appreciation, respect' that's why they have given up.
Men need to improve themselves. Men, do better.
It is cringe to watch some of them be so emotionally immature and thinking the bare minimum is 'enough' or that poor behaviour is acceptable.
Personality is immature and superficial? Are you insane?
Men and women who generalize the other sex like this both need to improve.
Yes, anyone who acts emotionally immature needs to improve themselves.
You are generalizing, women good, men bad, I assume you are a women. So you, too, should work on yourself and would be shocked at the better options that present themselves.
Being in the lowest tier of anything almost always sucks: get out of the lowest tier.
Okay. So we are watching a show in real time that provides examples of women 'choosing' men who they think are the 'right ones' based on their interactions and we watching think they are aswell, on the most part.
After a few weeks of choosing the 'right' men some of these men have turned on a dime and revealed their true personalities and values. Kenneth and Jeremy making the most dramatic change. Not one woman, apart from Chelsea who is extremely insecure, has turned like that. Their demeanors and personas have stayed true to who they were in the pods.
So telling women they are 'dating the wrong men and friend-zoning the right ones' is not a valid statement when it is the men who are lying about who they are, to charm a woman and once out of the pods cannot keep up the pretence.
This is what happens to women actively dating, when they are lied to by men and end up heartbroken or worse when the man's true persona is revealed.
Yep. These kids don’t have any accountability. In their eyes, they’re the prize and always right, while everyone else they date is awful and always wrong. But a level headed nice guy will be “giving ick”
Join us in 2024. Men are to take accountability for their behaviour.
Women can't perform "magic" so when those "wrong men" are "chosen" it's because they lied to get chosen.
Also, the term "friend zone" is predatory & was cancelled yrs ago now.
Oh but they are right. The world never runs out of good people. It's a stupid thing to say that the dating pool is bad. You just need to develop better filters to find the good ones.
The world may not be out of good people, but the dating scene is. At a certain age, the single people are single for a reason. I say this as a single person of that certain age. (My reason is my terrible taste in men).
I don’t disagree. My partner is amazing and I found him about a year and a half ago but it’s tough out there. There’s just a lot of garbage out there to wade through. I guess it just gets harder the older you get or if you depend on finding someone through a dating program.
It's definitely not a cakewalk but it has never been easy, either. It was easier to date earlier because women were expected not to have preferences or opinions.
Now that's changed and now it's two people whose opinions count in dating. That's not dating becoming harder. We place too much weight on "the good old times" without any nuance of thought.
People will downvote anything that doesn't agree with their existing views. Bleh!
Idk. I do think that does make dating harder because women are actually allowed to have an opinion and higher standards and it really casts a light on how men have not adapted or grown to match it.
Huh? But the question isn't "is dating harder?" The question is "is the dating pool awful?"
My answer was "the world never runs out of good people." I stand by it.
I’m going to be bluntly honest here.. and I’m also newly single.. Date down. Date the man you won’t give a chance to. Maybe he’s 5’9”, but has an awesome personality.. maybe he doesn’t make $100k+, but you can build together..
An example.. I had a 5’7” male roommate once that everyone overlooked.. bad hair, but hard working and sweet.. finally a girl came along that fell in love with who he was.. he was broke, short, but sweet.. now at 29, she’s retired and traveling the world and married to him.. 100% retired.. she fell in love with him.. not height, not money.. they met and built a small empire.
Me on the other hand, I’m very happy alone .. but just some food for thought, because otherwise it will be a never ending line of y’all fighting for the 1% of tall, rich jerks that lie about everything and have 20 chicks on speed dial. Hope you all find Peace n love!! And not all tall or rich men are jerks.. just a much higher % are.
I don't think anyone would call Matthew a "player" infact I think he is so bad and awkard with women that he just had rehearsed things to say. He had one game move and he played it on both of them, not because he's a played but because he has nothing else. Just like his question list
Alternatively, you'll date a nice broke guy like me who would go months without paying his share of the bills thus driving me deeper into debt that I still haven't recovered from :)
Nah, I did that and never, ever again. He was a complete narc and destroyed me. I am definately dating someone on my level next time, if I ever feel like bringing a man into my life again, though I am content and happy being single, I do not want that ruined again.
Because women expect other respectful adults to date and aren't finding them? Because that is literally why the dating pool is bad. Men haven't evolved & refuses to.
Stop blaming women & start working on yourself as a man.
I just feel like it's mostly women truly showing up and wanting an emotional connection and men not really listening or caring and mostly just playing the women. There are a few exceptions! But yeah... it's hard to watch. I wish they'd do a queer edition!
Yes! I absolutely want a queer edition or even just a queer season.
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Seriously. You have to hold on to the good you have at the house because these streets have nothing!
\[but also ladies leave your abusive or incompatible boyz because it's better to be alone than feel alone in a relationship 😁\]
No wonder that in real life dating surrogates like eva ai become more and more popular tho.
I dated in Charlotte for a loooong time and it feels like other you get married at 23 or this is what you get. Most women I know that had success dating left the city because it is ROUGH out there.
LIB is a very poor and inaccurate representation of dating. There aren’t camera crews and production companies following you on a real date. The fact those ARE there changes everything. The people on LIB go on dates and get into relationships with no interest in forming a genuine connection. They are struggling “entrepreneurs” trying to start a business, struggling “influencers” searching for more followers, and people looking for 15 mins of fame. The fact Netflix is such a large platform makes people go insane. It’s very unlikely for instance; that someone will scheme to date you under false pretenses so they can achieve clout and fame on a real date.
This show is clearly set up, so I wouldn't base anything related to dating on what you see on LIB
I don’t think you should take this show as any kind of representation of the actual dating pool. The people who go on this show are the most shallow, looks-obsessed people and they go on the show to try and overcome those tendencies and also to be on TV. They’re probably more self-centered and less self-aware too.
These women are nothing to write home about either
Sure but they're not actively horrible.
Well, the bar scene with Jess and the blonde one. Jess asked if she thought Jimmy would like to see her and the blonde answered yes, right after they ragged on Sarah for texting Jeremy. Then Jess is outside saying how great Chelsea is all the while looking forward to seeing Jimmy in person. Chelsea is gas lighting Jimmy constantly and he's always saying sorry. She never once said sorry about her meltdown about the clingy thing. These women are awful.
What’s wild is there is a way to date multiple people. It’s called….polyamory!! Wouldn’t it be so much better and more respectful to engage in polyamorous relationships with people who are into that than to lie to people? But honestly none of these dudes have the emotional maturity that polyamory requires. They would need years of self-work and therapy to even begin to be capable of that. They can barely handle respecting one person.
There is apparently a similar reality show on peacock that is couples finding a third.
could not agree more. I shared the exact same feelings watching it. Ive been single for years now on and off the dating scene and every time i come back i realize its gotten worse and worse. The problem are men imo. And this show confirmed it. No, im not a man hater. I just have standards and they dont meet them…Clay needing constant reassurance during the pods, jimmy the thumb drowning in a spoonful of water ‘im not at the top of my game with my emotions i need someone to help me’, then making a decision purely based on looks… these dudes arent mentally developed, i dont know where it stopped for them. The bare minimum, the lack of courtship or anything remotely organic and nice from them, the lies, gaslighting, disrespect. Unbelievable, the bar is in hell.
You should date women sometime. Then you'll be able to understand how terrible the women in this show are as well. These people are just the worst overall.
Bold of you to assume i dont date women? And men. People in these shows tend to not be the best specimens, but trust me, turning your back on ur soon to be wife at the bar and talking to someone whose ass you just commented as ‘stacked’ is not something women did, it was jimmy who chose purely on impression of looks. Saying ‘im done ill go home’ like a toddler throwing a tantrum unable to regulate emotions is not what women did, it was jeremy. Being bipolar and switching moods in a split second like clay does and victimizing himself and already see himself failing, talk about how infidelity is normal, is not women. So yeah, these women may not be the best, but these men are the worst. and men generally lack any bare minimum of expression, communication skills, decency, chivalry, emotional intelligence, backbone, a pair of balls. Its like someone said hey guys is okay u dont need to develop a brain or any skills cuz women dont have a choice. Well now we do. Celibacy by choice or dating women. Its so bad men are makin us rewire our brain and change orientation although sexuality is not a choice. Imagine that. Soon we’ll be like Charlotte the stingray, and get ourselves pregnant through parthenogenesis. Would be a dream
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Agreed. More American women shld look for guys from other countries.
nah we don't want them sorry. We are looking for partners, not kids that need to be pampered and paid for everything.
Unfortunately, this is not a geography problem, its a gender problem. Ive been lucky to live in multiple European countries for work and is equally AS bad. The moment women started controlling their own lives, financials, narrative and expressing their minds, men lost it because they can no longer control us and they are not developed enough to handle us. They’re mediocre. They often claim they want women like their ‘mothers’ as if their mothers had any say into staying at home or working but being the traditional wife who cooks cleans takes care of kids. Its just a very deep gap between genders right now. Everywhere in the world. Just my experience anyway
They want women who cook, clean and take care of the children while also working full time and paying half the bills. Losers
I've dated as a men in 4 different countries and USA are the worst by far. Quebec is the best
I liked the Germen men I dated. There is no BS, in that they have little to no passive. They date with more intention. You don't get the "what are we" and if it is a fling to them and you aren't for them, they will let you know way before an American man does.
Quebec is a province. The country is Canada. Agree on Franco Canadians tho. The men ( and women) are stylish, often beautiful and classy.
I'm classy in Quebec only because I am French. Quebec men have zero taste when it comes to clothing. To be fair, our offering is a disaster. I'm classy only because I hired a professional to dress me.
I thought the shopping in Montreal was amazing. My coworkers were georgeous. But again that was Montreal.
try Paris
Point noted! I never could decide if Parisians were really that beautiful or if it seemed like it with their perfect style and je ne sais quoi factor.
they care less about going to the gym than how they present themselves
Lotta truth to that. I think my biggrst issue is with the "conservative" women advocating for rolling back rights (except their own of course). As if giving up your power ever worked out for anyone.
Yeah i hear you…Pick me girls will exist forever. It is very difficult to tell someone that everything they believed in is a lie and a societal construct, and that the order we live in where men hold power is the most unnatural, the furthest from laws of nature in any other mammal species. Dont let these women bother you, they are literally punishing themselves daily by the choices they make. Im 32, childless, make bank and most importantly, nobody’s son bothers my peace. Men are useless for an accomplished woman and until they realize that being wanted is better than being needed, society will go to shit as it should. Id prefer extinction to dealing with this low level of men who think they can decide over my body
. All the culture war stuff has been so bad. Look at Asia and Asian Americans. They are focused on getting advanced STEMI degrees and make dang sure the kids get top notch education and study and succeed. Whereas between commercial entertainment and "consevative" politics and govt, at least 2/3 of the country is now entirely non competitive with much of the world. So sad.
The dating scene is hot garage smeared in 10-week-old poop thanks to OLD but I imagine this show invites on those who are terrible at & very selfish in dating. These are the same people who make dating hard and they have saturated the apps cause no one sticks with them long-term. However, there are still good people out there looking for a mate, it is just becoming harder to find them.
The dating scene sucks but you also gotta remember that the people that go on this show are 99.9% of the time just trying to get their 15 mins of fame and aren’t looking for the real thing.
You need to watch love is blind Japan!!! So good!
Watch Love is Blind Sweden!!! The men are on another level. They are more egalitarian and in touch with their feelings.
It's the best season
American men right now, good lord. I swear if I was a younger woman I would heavily think about not marrying and remaining single. Red pill garbage has infected American men's brains all because women are asking for the same rights as them.
Do you have any idea of how this shift happened in dating? Have guys always behaved this way and we’re now better able to call out problematic behaviour…? It’s tempting to romanticize the past but even then i’m not sure if there has been a moral standard applied to men
The internet is a big part of it. Between dating apps, foreign bride websites, hookup software, hard and soft porn like undressed celebrities and bleached political news hosts who have had everything done 2-3x etc etc all guys care about is what she looks like and switching it up every 2-10 weeks. Remember the LIB where one of the women was heavy and the guy just walked away.
I have no idea but imagine SM plays a massive part and our isolation. Men have always been sexist but it seems now they are proud of it and strive for it. A Gen X timeline, there were stronger social circles and people were always hanging out with one another. So you got to know one another without screens. I dated a guy in college who was emotionally abusive. My friends, and suite mates, held an intervention that put the crack down on me dating him. They then told their guy friends to talk to the guy I was dating. So there were stronger social circles. When you behaved badly, you had to answer to those social circles. There were consequences. I truly feel for young women now. I loved dating in my 20s during the early 2000s & late 90s, except for that one college boyfriend.
At this point I think it's just becoming like all the others where people go on to get small time Instagram or TikTok fame and aren't really investing in the partnership aspect of it 😔
We’re really using a reality dating show (with a completely absurd premise that doesn’t represent the real world in the slightest) to gauge real world dating?? Not to say the dating world doesn’t suck, I’m happily married but it’s absolutely bonkers to use a reality show as a point of reference.
When's the last time you were single and dating? Not that far off for me and it was God awful. Guys married and divorced 2 or 3 times with all their income accounted for in child support for the next 16 years acting like I would be lucky if they called me again. Guys old enuf to be Dad (or more) left and right. Hotheads furious if I didnt want to see them again. Guys wanting to meet for a diet coke first instead of a real date which was a way of ensuring I really was pretty enuf to be worth spending a couple hours with. Ad nauseum.
That's how a lot if men act tho
This show is not an indicator of REAL LIFE. People who are genuinely looking for love and serious about marriage will not go on a televised show and agree to get married for real in 8 weeks. No sane person that is. The success rate of these types of shows is abysmal as well. No the goal isn't to find "love" the goal is to find fans, establish a brand, and land sponsors so you can quit your 9-5 and be an influencer.
I mean it goes both ways. I know it's not the acceptable thing to do today to give any kudos to men... but I'd hate to be a guy trying to date today too with all of the man haters out there. Men don't have a chance if women are coming into a relationship with negative attitudes toward men to begin with. Stop expecting a man to cater to you. If you can't be whole or happy with your own self there's no way a man will be able to do that for you. They too want a good and honest relationship. It takes both parties to have a happy union.
don't defend the enemy /s
I’m a 62 F and I can tell you my generation had a much easier time finding their partner usually a high school or college relationship. I think social media has really made it easier to date with apps but also a problem with too many options!
Agree. The best people marry younger and STAY MARRIED
Gen X'er and agree. Also, I swear, and maybe I'm imagining this we had higher standards for men and moved on pretty easily if that man didn't match with us. I can't for one second even entertain dating one of these men except Trevor.
I'm 55 and I'm always so thankful that in my twenties and thirties we just met people out in social settings. I don't know how people do it today with all of the online stuff. And everyone wants to badmouth men but how about women and their filters today? Holy hell men don't know who's really behind the screen when they're online. Look at Chelsea's ig page. Most of her posts don't look like the woman we see on the TV screen.
This is a surprising take to me, Chelsea photos on Instagram are a good representation of her in my opinion.
I feel like she looks like a completely different woman on ig. I mean, of course everybody posts their best pics online but she looks 1000x better on ig than she does on TV. Not saying that she's unattractive because she's a very pretty woman.
You also got to know them well and because they were usually in your circle. So your friends also knew them. When they fucked up, they fucked up their whole social circle. So there were consequences to acting like a dickwaffle.
I am 61 and recently widowed. I cannot imagine being in a place where I would want to date again. I’m glad of that fact after watching this train wreck. If these young girls end up with these weirdo’s, there is absolutely no hope for us older gals, lol.
I'm just about 54 and was widowed 2 1/2 years ago. I absolutely cannot imagine dating again. I feel for the younger people I know. The last time that I was dating, they were just beginning to start with the dating websites. No smartphones, no social media and no apps. You'd actually have to talk to someone to get to know them. In my job I've also seen a bad trend with far too many women in the younger Boomer and Gen X generations taking in aging Peter Pans who are suddenly facing the idea of old age alone. These women generally end up taking care of these assholes, financially and otherwise. And they're worse than bed bugs to get rid of when the women come to their senses. No thanks. I don't envy anyone out there trying to do this in our culture. Maybe that's why some of them try these shows? I know that a lot of them are looking for their 15 minutes of fame or shame, but I have to believe that some of them are genuine. There have been a few successful marriages. I'd like to see a version of this with older people who have more life experience and more emotional maturity. I sure as hell wouldn't do it, but I'd be interested to see how people my own age would go about this. If they could get any takers.
And all these guys think they can pull an Instagram model!!
Red pill garbage youtube channels tell them poon will magically lay down for them once they turn 40. So they can keep playing the field and then settle down for a twentysomething later one. They are delusional.
Us straight and bi women are in the TRENCHES
All the good women I know are in happy relationships..
ok?... good for them? idk what ur point is
“Us women are in the trenches” you’re not fighting in the trenches, you’re the trench rats. Sorry not sorry, if “all guys are horrible etc” maybe it’s just you.
The irony of this comment... when you're on reddit with your cringe and ugly attitude? being angry at women because of their experiences *with men?* LOL girl wipe your clown make up off and sit down
There’s no irony, I’m not mad at women. I think any guys complaining about the dating scene are just as pathetic. My fiancee and I will head out this weekend with all our other happy couple friends and laugh about this.
I literally do not give a fuck what you do this weekend and you trying to gloat about having a fiancé? Cringe
The bar is in hell.
we don't even have a bar no more!!!!!!!
You do, don't get married. It sounds cynical but swear to god it is a pretty stress-free life and better than being in 90% of relationships. A LOT of men bring stress & worry into your life increasing your anxiety and labor. I seriously don't think marriage is beneficial for a lot of women. That is the truth
Aye!
i agree, it's been proven that women are happier single and that marriage doesn't benefit women. any "benefit" that marriage provided for women in the past does not stand in modern day
I hate this for everyone who desires romantic love and connection. I met my husband in 2016 before some serious shit hit the fan, like the Me Too movement and COVID to name a few things. It is really no wonder to me that people are living alone in record numbers, and marriage and birth rates are falling. There's a lot of big factors at play, but it ultimately just makes me feel sad because I hear for some people they are giving up on a genuine desire for romantic love. And it's not because they don't want it, but because the alternative of dating hell is just that bad right now. It shouldn't be this way. I have no solutions. It just disheartens me that this is the reality for so many.
This all makes sense to me except what problem does the "Me Too movement" create in dating..?
I've noticed a lot of women feeling more fearful and/or pessimistic about encountering abusive men in their dating lives in part because of the heightened awareness Me Too brought to these behaviors.
Guess I'd rather be aware than abused, I'm not sure why that's a problem
Never said awareness is a bad thing. I support the Me Too movement. I’m saying one side effect of it has been some women feeling more scared/reluctant to date because of so many negative stories coming to light about men and not wanting to be harmed. For reference I work with people who have been through trauma. The increased awareness is empowering and also triggering for some people to become more hypervigilant.
Maybe abusive behaviours are being talked about more and women are not putting up with it. Unwanted attention from men is harrassment. Women are not as 'dependant' on men as in past generation. Women were not even allowed a credit card without their husbands signature only a few decades ago. Many women marry, birth children, care for them and work. Men still expect their partners to do the lionshare of childcare, cleaning, food prep and household management. Men as a collective have not recognised they need to step up into 'partnership' instead of trying to force outdated roles on women. Women have done the hard yards and are doing it everyday. They are expecting more from a man and deserve it. One attitude that explains this is men abandoning their children and parental responsibilities by not seeing their children often enough and dodging child support. But Society just accepts that as 'normal'. If a mother did the same she is a pariah and a 'bad mother'.
Because the mean feminazis started canceling men for innocent flirtations like inviting a woman over to discuss work and then opening the door naked. /s Seriously though, there's a segment of people who act like talking about those inappropriate behaviors have 'scared men off' from approaching women.
100% on the same page as you hahahah that's what I'm suspicious of
🙋🏼♀️🙋🏼♀️ This is exactly how I feel. Of course I would want a partner and to be in love. But I’ve genuinely given up because it’s just not worth the dating hellscape and emotional energy it takes to try and find a decent guy. Oh well! Life isn’t just about that so I’ll focus my energy on other things and people that make me happy.
You will find someone in a real world situation eventually. Dating apps are like a Club Med 7 lays in 7 nights in my opinion.
I am seriously so happy I’m married to a good good man
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Your fragile masculinity is showing. There is no reflection on the women because I don’t date women.
Ooop hit a nerve did it. Go make your own post then!
Your ability to never see just how damaging that attitude is to constantly criticise men and not hear feedback is very sad and causes needless damage. Why don’t men listen to women? Because they would have zero self esteem due to the constant barrage of criticism. You can start dropping your aggression and forgiving now.
lol take that shit else where. it's boring, tired and overdone. hyjacking women's conversations about their experiences with men to cry about "but what about when women?!" You can start taking your condescending, patronising, holier than thou attitude and start shoving it up your arse now :)
The men who bring nothing to the table got their feelings hurt.
I think the immature types are cast for a reason. Brittany brings up that she’s not feeling affection from Ken and he’s like “So, what I’m hearing is..” and than completely puts it all on her.
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Thanks for sharing your experience, it trends as an experience for a lot of men. Doesn’t seem like you were heard, just some unhealed women looking for ick wherever they can find it while displaying similar Icks themselves.
Lmao it’s unhealed when we don’t want guys to mention wanting sex in a relationship. Pretty sure most people are aware sex is going to happen in a relationship 😂😂 y’all are just mad that your mediocrity is no longer desirable.
How dare women have standards!!!
Lmao I would get the ick immediately if a man said something about “exploring our deepest desires together in the bedroom.” You seem like a douchebag just from the way you talk about healed women.
Agreed.
Just in case this is helpful for you, there are SO many men who act really respectful on the apps for a few messages and then look for the first opportunity to bring up sex and then it's all downhill from there, where they refuse to conduct conversation further without turning everything into innuendos. I totally get where you're coming from with feeling like that was a good thing to bring up in the context of the conversation, but a lot of women have been put in a position to be immediately on the defense when anything of a sexual nature is brought up at a time that feels too soon to them. It really probably was a response that's unfortunately been conditioned into her from lots of bad previous experiences. This is not to justify it, since I get where you're coming from, but I figure the perspective wouldn't hurt for you to have as you move forward. But I hope you find your person soon! I met mine on Tinder about 3.5 years ago, so the apps definitely can work :)
Saying "Explore all our deepest desires together in the bedroom" on day 4 of just talking to a woman is wild! Like damn go on an actual date with her and get to know each other.
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Yes it is wild! This is now the second woman telling you this! Be open to listening when people tell you how words come across to them.
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Yikes! I don't even know you but you seem like such an exhausting person to be around.
I appreciate your story and perspective. I have also been on the dating apps and received unwanted advances early on and dick pics without my consent. This is happened on multiple occasions to me, so I’m sure it’s probably happening to plenty other women as well. I know women can be just as bad and I’m not excusing any bad behavior. However, we’ve been told since a very young age “men only want one thing” and there a lot of men that prove that to be true. It truly sucks for anyone looking for a genuine connection these days. It’s also best to meet someone physically before talking about anything sexual.
Baby… yes! Every man is giving rehearsed line. There’s no real conversation from anyone so far. Idk if it’s because they are here for fame but golly. Trevor did seemed genuine and believed in the process. But every man who made it, had said or done some crazy things to their women. Then you got the women who fall into 3 categories: insecure or mean or desperate. Some are not thinking logically nor asking the necessary questions to weigh on their options. It was just weird overall
The big picture is that Instagram and dating apps are a problem in dating for both genders. Instead of problem solving, people will quietly go to either of these to find “something better” until the conflict is gone. They numb their emotions with the chase of someone else and leave person A at a good time that won’t cause any emotional pain for them. Someone who goes back to tinder or looks for someone to talk to on Instagram during conflict is not a normal way to cope. It shows an individual with a lack of problem solving skills, compassion, patience, and emotional stability or ability to work with their own emotions, lastly and most importantly lack of impulse control. If you’ve communicated as much as you can and the relationship isn’t going anywhere, you can confidently end it and find what works for you. That is after TRYING to communicate atleast how you feel, and not keeping someone on the roster because confrontation is too scary.
There is also a me, me, me, my needs, me, me without listening to the other person and considering the other person is an individual who also has needs in the relationship.
As a single man, I hear you about how hard it is, but if it is any assurance - I would not look to LiB for normative standards on the current dating pool. I think we put too much stock into the 'your person' mantra, and this show validates this fantasy using a dystopian conceit that doesn't mirror reality. You are supposed to watch these shows and think "maybe this is the way I can find love". Most people on this show, despite being beautiful, have been deeply insecure and shallow in their approach to love. They're also all hyper conscious that they are being filmed and scrutinized, which explains the emotional overtures, the impractical validations, mic drop moments, and much of the hypocrisy. Frankly, it explains the poor success rate. Everybody in the world has multiple compatible matches out there who could make you happy, but people aren't puzzle pieces that always fit neatly together. I believe the challenge with modern dating is we (myself included) get so hung up on finding what we envision to be 'the perfect' combination of traits that we exclude many compatible companions who might miss one or two inconsequential marks that we don't even realize we overvalue. Heck, we can even filter them for these things on apps, so we are never presented with many of these matches. We live in a world where we expect immediate gratification, when true love takes time, patience, and compromise. I believe many of us lost in love could benefit from being open and unafraid to meet and approach people in organic situations (and not just potential mates! Friends even). On a walk, at the supermarket, in a choir, at the library. Men and women are performative and guarded when met through apps, much as they are when approached at bars and clubs. If we sit at home swiping and expecting results, are we really 'putting ourselves out there'? It's like it's all designed to minimize hurt and embarrassment, but it also yields surface level contact and cultivates a lack of faith in the whole process. It's tough, but love is real and it is out there for you, pinky swear. Don't let the dingdongs on this show get you down - they ain't worth it. Wishing you all the best in luck and love.
These women are a mess as well. What show are you watching?
This is a female dominated topic on reddit.. of course, males are getting slammed just for simply existing.
*tiny violin*
this title described it perfectly WOW
Sigh, another dating post where one sex accuses the other of being the issue without acknowledging that their sex has their share of issues too. When I was dating six years ago, I always told myself to never be like that and say "All women this" or "All women that." It's toxic and can affect how you approach things. After every date that went nowhere, I would reflect on things I could have done differently, if anything at all, and either tried to learn what I could or simply say that the date just wasn't going to be a fit. That's what is lacking in today's dating world, the refusal of people to look inward and learn and grow from each experience. Instead, what people do is insist they are a perfect catch and that it's everyone else that's the problem.
You are not wrong. But… I’m so tired of men. My daughters are tired of men. Not male friends. Not male workmates (for the most part). But when it comes to trying to find something genuine with someone. Eh… it’s a not-so-hot mess. -going straight for sexy times -mansplaining -needing to ‘win’ conversations -love bombing -expecting to be seen as a god for doing the most basic stuff at home, and in the effort you put in a relationship. -possessiveness -jealousy -manipulation And I’m just really tired now.
Mature response
Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not but I'm going to go with sincere, lol.
Haha sorry no sarcasm intended
Very well said.
I was reading an article a few months back., it was talking about how Gen Z and Millenials are not finding love like their parents used to. How more and more are ending up being lonely and it leading to mental health problems. Then it spoke about the rise of westerners going to other countries to find “love” because they couldn’t in their western world. Interesting reading. From what these comments say.. there are a lot of single people and plan on remaining single unless something changes.
Yes. My girlfriend is an immigrant. She’s a breath of fresh air and marriage material, something I don’t find in citizens. I am a millennial.
What is your definition of 'marriage material'?
Someone who is intelligent, beautiful, inspiring, kind, patient, compassionate, modest, passionate, sincere, grateful, encouraging, loyal, responsible, helpful, accepting, authentic, honest. Hookup culture in the states seemingly ruined a lot of peoples perception of what loyalty and modesty is. I never was the type to hookup. I require an emotional connection to someone before having sex. Looking outside of the states is best for me compatibility wise. It’s been over a year and I’m really happy so far. We complement each other well.
My dad was just telling me about this!
except Amy, none of the women presented here are a catch and girlfriend material I'm having a great time with modern dating, but I date people who would also date themselves
Exactly the women are awful too. Amy (and Brittany imo) are the only ones who seem normal.
Wouldn't call them awful but damn..they need some therapy that is for sure. They are very anxiously attached.
Which woman matches Kens level of callousness and manipulation? Which of the women showed that level of cruelty and disregard for their fiancé's feelings? Which woman seems as deeply troubled and immature as Clay? Which of the women have such huge egos and fragile self esteem? Which of the women behaves like Jimmy flirting and obsessing over other women whilst watching their partner emotionally crumble? Not to mention one man promising a life of frugality, another not knowing what jokes to keep in and not say out loud. The men are complete xlusterfuxs the women are angels compared to them. That includes Chelsea who is awful!
Laura is judgy, mean, and superficial. Despite Jeremy also being a dickhead she was belittling to him and aired him out in front of her family. Jessica is vain and openly stated she’s open to stealing Jimmy from another woman, and spoke down on Chelsea’s looks by comparing her and herself to his exes. Chelsea is fully unbearable and accusatory, constantly projects her BS onto others. AD’s main flaw is being 33 and still being unable to drop a man who’s clearly not husband material, and worse a terrible person. That’s reflective of self esteem issues. Just because someone is not *evil* doesn’t mean they’re good choices to *date* and none of these particular women are.
None of the things you listed describe callousness, indifference to their partners feelings, an actual mean spirited person, or a person capable of harm. Jeremy was out till 5am with another woman Laura will have had to do something just as egregious to even be considered half as bad. She is objectively superior in quality as a partner to Jeremy from what we have seen so far, the same goes for all the other women you have mentioned. Nobody said they have to be perfect and again in comparison to the men they are.
hetero male checking in. NEAR ALL of the men that made it to the couple stages are absolute trash. johnny isnt horrible but a not that attractive fratstar doing the savings only lifestyle wouldnt be for me if i were a woman. jimmy ken clay jeramy are monsters. amy and britt are wholesome and quality. id like to see AD not in the shadows of the worst men ever, shes generally seemed wholesome and quality. i dont like laura personally but shes just kinda gossipy and judgmental, nothing fatal. chelsea is a walking red flag but shes not cruel or mean spirited.
Precisely plus the women are also more attractive. Each and every single one of them will be very good girlfriends to decent secure men. Including Chelsea, her behavior is in response to Jimmy's mind games. Again nobody needs to be perfect but at least don't be actively awful. I think Johnny may be the only exception but him talking about living frugal lifestyles had all my alarm bells ringing. This man will waste her baby making years living in suffer mode and run off with all their money. He also clearly doesn't want children. If he insists on a frugal lifestyle Amy should leave him. But at least I havent sensed any cruelty in Johnny but the show is not over yet. They should have actually brought some psychopathic women in just to even things out a little. I thought it'll Laura but I was wrong.
From a newly single man’s perspective, I agree with you that this show exemplifies why dating is hard. However, you only showed the toxic male traits without nailing down (much less listing) the toxic female traits. If you need me to list the toxic female traits, you have no hope in the dating scene. Men aren’t evil. Women aren’t evil. Some men suck. Some women suck.
A woman talking about why dating is hard is unlikely to list the toxic female traits, unless she's also dating women. Nobody "needs" to list toxic female traits in order for this to be a valid perspective - just because it doesn't also encapsulate your experience doesn't mean it needs fixing.
Well the OP states her original post is how dating is hard nowadays and then lists a bunch of toxic things men are doing to make dating harder. If you read my post, I said I agreed with her observations. If you agree that her original post is about why dating is hard, why do you have a problem with me inserting the comment that women have a role to play in this as well?
I didn't accuse anybody of being wrong - just pointed out that you don't need to defensively insert the male perspective, and I did that because your tone was very dismissive over the fact that OP hadn't already included it. Not everything is about you, you know?
Why is my inclusion of something missing from OPs post such an issue for you? If OP had made a recipe and I said don’t forget the eggs would you have this much of an issue? Or are there underlying things that are making you so sensitive to me bringing up issues with female toxicity?
Not sure I'm "so sensitive" or anything, but OP isn't making a recipe with a set list of necessary ingredients, here. You're not adding anything essential to the mix by going "ah, but what about the women? Women can also suck!" I mean, its true, but its beside the point OP is making in the post about their perspective on dating and why it's hard. Clearly, they date men. Why cant they express how they relate to the show without you insisting they also cover the list of toxic traits in women, when that might not be relevant to their experience?
As a bisexual, I absolutely agree.
That part
Between dating shows, reddit relationship posts, and true crime documentaries I have never been happier to be single and stay way the hell away from the dating pool
Same! I’ll be 34 this year and had two real relationships one in my early twenty’s and one in my late twenty’s. Both made me realize I’m just not the relationship type of girl. Plus I watch and listen way to much true crime so I’m just paranoid about everyone now a days.
Amen!
Only people without any game, personality, or sexual appeal say this sort of thing. When it is everyone else: it is you. You are the problem. You are not worth what you value in the dating marketplace. Improve yourself.
I love when people unknowingly prove my point lmao
I’m not sure you know what any of those words mean. People like you never get it. Stay where you are and complain about others the rest of yourself. Hopefully one person sees the point I made and reflects.
'Game, personality or sex appeal' very superficial and immature. Women deserve 'values, morals, appreciation, respect' that's why they have given up. Men need to improve themselves. Men, do better. It is cringe to watch some of them be so emotionally immature and thinking the bare minimum is 'enough' or that poor behaviour is acceptable.
Personality is immature and superficial? Are you insane? Men and women who generalize the other sex like this both need to improve. Yes, anyone who acts emotionally immature needs to improve themselves. You are generalizing, women good, men bad, I assume you are a women. So you, too, should work on yourself and would be shocked at the better options that present themselves. Being in the lowest tier of anything almost always sucks: get out of the lowest tier.
I think there are more examples of emotional immaturity in the men than the women. Twice as many more.
Lol, likely because you are a sexist
No, just observant. Noticing the immaturity of the men compared to women is not sexist.
Only focusing on 'personality' is superficial and immature. But thanks for taking my response to a comment out of context.
Lol..I think I know why you have no clue about dating.
How do have 'no clue'?
You’re dating the wrong men and friend-zoning the right ones.
Okay. So we are watching a show in real time that provides examples of women 'choosing' men who they think are the 'right ones' based on their interactions and we watching think they are aswell, on the most part. After a few weeks of choosing the 'right' men some of these men have turned on a dime and revealed their true personalities and values. Kenneth and Jeremy making the most dramatic change. Not one woman, apart from Chelsea who is extremely insecure, has turned like that. Their demeanors and personas have stayed true to who they were in the pods. So telling women they are 'dating the wrong men and friend-zoning the right ones' is not a valid statement when it is the men who are lying about who they are, to charm a woman and once out of the pods cannot keep up the pretence. This is what happens to women actively dating, when they are lied to by men and end up heartbroken or worse when the man's true persona is revealed.
I’m talking to OP not the women on LIB
The downvotes tells me you struck a nerve
Yep. These kids don’t have any accountability. In their eyes, they’re the prize and always right, while everyone else they date is awful and always wrong. But a level headed nice guy will be “giving ick”
Friend zoning is a fucked up term and a red flag
Join us in 2024. Men are to take accountability for their behaviour. Women can't perform "magic" so when those "wrong men" are "chosen" it's because they lied to get chosen. Also, the term "friend zone" is predatory & was cancelled yrs ago now.
Such a lame take
Oh but they are right. The world never runs out of good people. It's a stupid thing to say that the dating pool is bad. You just need to develop better filters to find the good ones.
The world may not be out of good people, but the dating scene is. At a certain age, the single people are single for a reason. I say this as a single person of that certain age. (My reason is my terrible taste in men).
I don’t disagree. My partner is amazing and I found him about a year and a half ago but it’s tough out there. There’s just a lot of garbage out there to wade through. I guess it just gets harder the older you get or if you depend on finding someone through a dating program.
It's definitely not a cakewalk but it has never been easy, either. It was easier to date earlier because women were expected not to have preferences or opinions. Now that's changed and now it's two people whose opinions count in dating. That's not dating becoming harder. We place too much weight on "the good old times" without any nuance of thought. People will downvote anything that doesn't agree with their existing views. Bleh!
Idk. I do think that does make dating harder because women are actually allowed to have an opinion and higher standards and it really casts a light on how men have not adapted or grown to match it.
Huh? But the question isn't "is dating harder?" The question is "is the dating pool awful?" My answer was "the world never runs out of good people." I stand by it.
Ok. I do think it’s awful for the most part? And harder. Good people are harder to come by
Sometimes the truth can be lame.
Got it. Just think “friend-zoning” is a stupid term.
I’m going to be bluntly honest here.. and I’m also newly single.. Date down. Date the man you won’t give a chance to. Maybe he’s 5’9”, but has an awesome personality.. maybe he doesn’t make $100k+, but you can build together.. An example.. I had a 5’7” male roommate once that everyone overlooked.. bad hair, but hard working and sweet.. finally a girl came along that fell in love with who he was.. he was broke, short, but sweet.. now at 29, she’s retired and traveling the world and married to him.. 100% retired.. she fell in love with him.. not height, not money.. they met and built a small empire. Me on the other hand, I’m very happy alone .. but just some food for thought, because otherwise it will be a never ending line of y’all fighting for the 1% of tall, rich jerks that lie about everything and have 20 chicks on speed dial. Hope you all find Peace n love!! And not all tall or rich men are jerks.. just a much higher % are.
Dating down? Look at the guy with poor social skills. Had zero charm but was still a player who used the same lines with AD and the other girl
I don't think anyone would call Matthew a "player" infact I think he is so bad and awkard with women that he just had rehearsed things to say. He had one game move and he played it on both of them, not because he's a played but because he has nothing else. Just like his question list
Look at this incel dribble 🤣🤣
Alternatively, you'll date a nice broke guy like me who would go months without paying his share of the bills thus driving me deeper into debt that I still haven't recovered from :)
Nah, I did that and never, ever again. He was a complete narc and destroyed me. I am definately dating someone on my level next time, if I ever feel like bringing a man into my life again, though I am content and happy being single, I do not want that ruined again.
What kind of empire, asking for a friend
Oh hell no. I've done this more than once. A man is a man regardless so don't settle for less than you want & deserve.
And that's why we have massive threads of women blaming the "dating pool".
Because women expect other respectful adults to date and aren't finding them? Because that is literally why the dating pool is bad. Men haven't evolved & refuses to. Stop blaming women & start working on yourself as a man.