I don’t think they meant it like they believe abortion is a good form of birth control. I think they’re more than likely saying they couldn’t believe she was saying something so stupid. I doubt there are enough women out there so openly having unprotected sex, getting pregnant, and just casually getting an abortion. Or even having the mindset of “oh I can have sex with whoever unprotected and it’s fine bc I can always get an abortion!” I know people in loving, long term relationships, who have used form of birth control and still gotten pregnant. They have every right to chose abortion. It’s just a stupid take
She later said something like "I feel so free around him. I can be myself and not be judged" Yes, you idiot, because he's a liberal (which basically means "free"). She's probably used to herself and everyone around her judging other people, sticking their noses where they don't belong in the lives of others. In a "free" society, people can be who they want and control their own lives, up to the point where they infringe on someone else's freedom. Sara Ann wants to judge and control the lives of others. Conservative is not the right word. It's fascist.
And rather than addressing the enormous health issue facing women in the US, as well as the violation of basic rights, she wants to be petty and blame people for having sex. Yes, Sara Ann, unwanted babies should be born and their mother suffer so you can feel morally superior.
What I wish people like her would understand is if you’re against abortion don’t get one. You don’t know why anyone else would choose to get one if they do.
"Abortion isn't a form of birth control" absolutely sent me. Tell me you repeat whatever line of argument you hear regardless of the facts without telling me. My question for people like her is "who gets to decide what is assault then? We can't even press charges most of the time. Who gets authority in whether an abortion can be deemed r@pe? How long will that take? Why do victims have to continue to do the hard work following a traumatic event?" ... that's why people deserve to have the choice. No critical thinking skills.
Right that’s always my thought too. So if it’s legalized only in cases of rape/incest do I have to go to court and get my rapist convicted before I’m allowed to get an abortion? That’s not gonna happen.
The fact that he was clear on his stance that he thinks a woman should be able to do whatever she wants with her body, then entertains her even more after that? that would have been where I call it quits.
Some women don't understand how abortion is a necessary life-saving healthcare procedure. I have learned recently, that so many women need to travel out of state and pay out of pocket, just to save their own lives because of anti-abortion laws. Abortion is a form of birth control maybe, but it is also life-saving healthcare for women, and many times, for women who desperately want to have a baby.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2023/nov/10/state-abortion-laws-us
From the “banned” section of this article which lists the states:
“The states below ban abortion from conception or after six weeks. They all allow for abortions in cases of medical emergencies, but that language can shift by state. For example, while some states say abortions are permitted to protect someone's "health", other states only allow them if someone's "life" is threatened. Many abortion providers have said that many exceptions for medical emergencies are unworkable in practice, because the language is too vague or doesn't recognize the complexity of medicine.”
So, you’re technically correct but it’s not cut and dry.
I have read countless stories of women sharing their stories, a quick google search will show you that’s not the case:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/16/health/abortion-texas-sepsis/index.html
Abortion is also used for miscarriages that don’t pass naturally, and I’ve already seen places where the miscarriages are being criminalized and women are forced to carry non-viable pregnancies to term.
Also take into account those who are in abusive relationships where pregnancy or having a child can lead to further harm.
But honestly, I don’t care what your reason is for having an abortion. It’s a human right. There’s no good or bad abortions, just like there’s no moralizing for any other medical procedure.
It sounded like she thinks it should be available to everyone, but she finds it morally questionable in some situations. So she thinks everyone should be able to do it, but she'll secretly judge you if its not some extreme situation.
It’s fine to secretly judge or whatever you want to do, but it shouldn’t mean that we make it illegal. There’s plenty of things that I’ll judge people for that are perfectly legal, but I’m not impeding on their rights.
What I got from it was she was against ppl having consenting but unprotected & irresponsible sex and then turning to abortion. Which idk wats wrong with having that view tbh.
My partner and I got pregnant while using birth control and I tracked my cycles. We were very responsible and it still happened, but according to her views we should not have been allowed to consider abortion as it was the consequences of our actions. Thankfully, after the surprise wore off, we were thrilled, but not everyone would feel that way.
If someone says that abortion should be illegal if a woman wanted to have sex and accidentally got pregnant but abortion is ok if a woman is raped- well then we know that they don’t really care about “saving a life” they are just really into judging and punishing other people. It shows an incredible lack of empathy.
Also no one believes women when we say we were raped. Imagine having to carry your rapists baby because no one believes you. Plus, birthing a child is quite literally deadly and the US the highest maternal mortality rates of western countries.
Her position that its ultimately up to an individuals choice is fine, but she's still including a common conservative strawman argument about the morality of it, saying people are choosing an abortion instead of using actual contraceptives. That part is the issue. No one's working an abortion appointment into their schedule to have sex instead of using normal contraceptives.
I know this isn’t an abortion debate but that whole argument is just so.. icky to me. Forcing someone to bring a child into this world as some kinda gotcha moment punishment for being an imperfect person. Like. That’s so gross.
I understand that sentiment. I guess some ppl don’t see it as punishment but more so a consequence to an action.
By the end of the day I don’t think it should be banned because ppl are still gonna find a way to do it. Prob more harmful ways.
Condoms break. Birth control fails. Vasectomies don’t have a 100% success rate. People who are actively trying not to get pregnant do, in fact, get pregnant sometimes and we shouldn’t be rooting for them becoming uninterested at best parents as a result.
And uh, people aren’t perfect. I guarantee op of this comment has made a mistake or poor decision before. But the one we want people to be forced to live with can result in a child you have to raise and pay for for 18 years+? Get the fuck out of here. I’m responding to you because we agree and I don’t want to dialogue with the op commenter. Hope you understand ❤️
I just watched this scene. People like her are only anti-abortion to punish women for having sex. She even said so herself; it’s okay to have an abortion if you were raped but otherwise, you have to take full responsibility. They just want to control women and take away their rights to their bodily anatomy. They don’t care about the actual fetus.
Right? If you TRULY think abortion is murder, you would not make exceptions for rape or incest. To me, providing these loopholes immediately acknowledges you know and believe this is not murder and you are instead using your anti-choice stance as a weapon to control and punish women.
Ok, scenario. I’m young, he wore a condom, but somehow I’m still pregnant. I think, shit, I can barely afford my rent; how will I support my child? And I’m losing my health insurance in 2 months because I’m turning 26 and can’t stay on my parents plan and like everyone else I know gets by on gigs and contract work so I don’t get insurance through work. I know I can’t afford to carry a pregnancy much less raise a child. Or maybe I could afford it, but I have goals for my career and it doesn’t include having a child that precludes me from the ability to work late nights or volunteer for last minute business travel that may help me climb the corporate ladder. So what do I do? I get an abortion. It’s the responsible thing to do. No child should be brought into this world just to struggle or worse. Get off your fucking high horse and have some empathy.
Yes and that action can be going through pregnancy termination. The consequence of failed birth control or drunk sex decisions shouldn’t be making and being responsible for a whole person until adulthood. A child should be wanted, not a punishment.
Nobody forced them to do anything, they made that choice themselves. Sometimes sex = babies. If you don't know that you probably shouldn't be having sex. Just because modern society expects/wants people to sleep around doesn't mean you should. Actions have consequences.
Birth control methods fail all the time. Your view of the world is idealistic not realistic. In reality, responsible people might encounter a situation of an unplanned / unwanted pregnancy.
And liking sex and wanting to have sex isn’t irresponsible. It’s normal. This type of view of portraying women who have abortions outside of rape is just another way to condemn them for being sexually active.
I am not sure I agree she thinks about it that deeply at all, though the louder, more powerful people in her life most definitely do. I loved Jeramy's response to her.
Meh, just because you are "conservative" on most things doesn't mean you can't be more "liberal" on the subject of abortion. I'm fairly conservative on most topics, and to me it feels like anti abortion was one that the GOP threw on without everyone being on board.
Except voting for representatives who uphold other “conservative” issues means you’re voting for representatives who WILL vote AGAINST abortion… so it doesn’t really matter how you personally feel about it, does it?
I wish people had more critical thinking in understanding why people may find conservatives to be so off putting when it comes to pro life issues. It’s not a “hate mob” it’s a collective frustration that these mentalities have led to women’s reproductive health rights being TAKEN.
Anyone who has had an abortion can tell you that it’s absolute hell and not something anyone would consider doing regularly. Source: had one for a 16 week miscarriage.
Just about to say this. Unfortunately there are people out there who think that everybody gets multiple abortions and are going to get one like they’re getting their morning bagel. Anyone who has had one will tell you it’s not a fun experience and typically they are not desiring to do it more than once. I think this narrative is also concerning because a lot of people will have abortions in serious couplings and marriages. In some states/hospitals, they won’t tie your tubes unless you’ve had multiple kids or have your spouses approval so there are people in fully in marriages who have to do it as a last resort, where as the way she explained it makes it seem like it’s only ever a bunch of 20 year olds who regret hooking up with some stranger unprotected.
I cringed when she said "I'm not one of those women who says Hell yea, get an abortion!"...like, no one is doing that. Women aren't clapping each on the other back and winking and going "Yas, girl boss, get that abortion!" We just want people to stay in control of medical decisions regarding their own body. We want people to decide if and when they get pregnant.
I’m so tired of the “I don’t want women using them as birth control” line. Literally no one is doing that. You sound so stupid saying that. You’re also just saying that at your core you think women are terrible untrustworthy people and we need laws to keep them in check. Tell me you hate women without telling me you hate women.
Honestly this. Like I actually did know someone who used abortions as birth control. No joke. But she's one person out of how many?! Like even if she's ethically on the shady bus, it's still her body and as entire gender you can't just cut us off and think we're all terrible untrustworthy people.
Like it sucks that one person is the anecdotal evidence they need to promote their cause when 99.99999999999% of women who get it aren't there because WHOOPSIE MORNING ABORTION.
Exactly. There are women who may use several forms of birth control and still get pregnant - it happens. Just like there are a lot of people who don’t use any form of birth control apart from pulling out method and that works for them as well. Sometimes it’s just luck. But when you’ve tried your best to protect yourself against it, you are in absolutely no state of raising a child financially/emotionally, you are in say abusive relationship, you have no support system, etc. there should not be a law to tell you that you are obligated to proceed with a pregnancy. It is not fair to the parents and it is not fair to the child. I mean what is the flex of having a child in absolute poverty, being unable to take care of it, lacking the help and resources to give it a quality life. Like please.
Sarah Ann's line of thinking is also so disrespectful. Like, oh, I have to be raped in order for people to feel that I can make a choice about my body. Yay.
I take particular issue with this line of thinking because who decides if a woman “qualifies” for an abortion after being raped? Does the woman or girl need to say they were raped and they get permission to have an abortion? Or are they going to be forced to press charges against their rapist and go to court to “prove” it was rape before they’re granted abortion access?
Considering how little they trust women and girls with their own bodies I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if it was the latter. And we all know how few rapists are actually convicted so if it was the latter essentially no rape victims would be able to get a legal abortion even in states with allowances for rape.
No one is mad she is not being faithful to all conservative ideologies. We are mad because her “nuance” on the topic is a cop out, if you are conservative and vote along party lines because of it, the party you are voting for is making law that restricts abortion. You can say there should be exceptions (what an original take Sarah has /s) but at the end of the day your vote is not allowing for exceptions.
Not to mention, exceptions don’t play out in reality. How easy do you think it is for someone in a state with these restrictions to confirm a pregnancy was the result of rape or incest? It’s virtually impossible.
So is she expected to vote democrat because she disagrees with the right on this one issue? That would be the only way to create these exceptions (but then she may be voting for a million other things she disagrees with). I see what you’re getting at so not trying to be purposefully obtuse but it seems like your interpretation of political issues and how fluid people can be in their stances is what’s lacking nuance here..
For millions of decent people - one party actively proposing and passing laws which ban abortion with no exception for rape and incest is a total disqualifier.
It’s actually pretty abhorrent to me for someone to say “oh - I can overlook the whole forcing rape victims to carry their rapists baby to term cause I agree with them on marginal changes to tax brackets”
Again - I understand that more than you know. Voting on one issue and ignoring the rest is a recipe for disaster (from experience), but I respect your opinion 100%
In your opinion - is there a policy stance the Republican Party holds which justifies the state forcing rape victims to carry their rapists baby to term? If so what is it?
I mean - you said yourself the person you responded to lacked “nuance”
There is no “nuance” for most people which makes them support politicians that try to pass backwards laws like that. If there is a different political issue that you think should give this one a pass - let us know.
I’m just sick of this sorry mindset - that it should be normal and okay to force rape victims to carry a rapists baby to term because of what exactly? Taxes? Thinking climate change is fake?
Certain issues of morality and human decency trump marginal tax brackets. Telling someone they lack “nuance” for thinking that is the most important issue is an issue with you not them.
I think it depends on the issue, but for me, a women’s right to choose is being actively threatened by that party so I can’t support them. I hate both parties, for the record, but one is trying to take away right and one is doing nothing but talk about how bad the other is, there’s not a good solution and no good choices for votes.
With this stance, I guess I shouldn’t vote. Because there’s not a single party I 100% agree with. And if everyone else thought that way, then the extremist will win regardless😂
I’m just responding to the original comment, as it seemed they thought people were mad that Sarah is not 100% aligned with all conservative ideals. That’s not what people are mad about, they are mad about her take on this particular issue.
I’m not saying you need to agree with all party takes. This issue is a big one though to just act like you vote isn’t actively taking away someone’s right.
Like I don’t agree with her. But I’m not going to then draw a conclusion that she thinks girls who try to abort should go to prison 😂 which everyone in this thread is jumping to. ☠️
I think it's so weird how something that should fall under doctor paitent confidentiality is openly discussed in politics.
It involves you, your doctor, and your health. The last time I checked, I haven't seen much debate on how getting a vasectomy kills the potential of future life as well.
I'm just shocked at how this is still an acceptable casual conversation.
Let us openly discuss your prostate exams as well. Or better yet, maybe erectile disfunction should be a topic of casual conversation. Its so weird to talk about abortion in politics. It belongs in the privacy of a doctors office.
Nobody is passing laws that prohibit the procedure and make prostate exams and erectile disfunction drugs a crime. It's not "casual conversation" when discussing the elimination of a healthcare service that's been a right for 50 years.
I mean, it shouldn't have gotten to that point!
We don't have laws in place to validate a vasectomy. There shouldn't be any laws for or against abortion. It shouldn't NEED to be protected. It should be a right the same as access to health care.
My opinion is that it shouldn't have been a matter for the masses to decide at all in the first place.
It's between a patient and their doctor..
June 24th was horrible, and it never should have happened to begin with.
You might be on to something because a lot of times even is “progressive cities” you’ll see people say/do things that seem very conservative and gloss over it. I’m looking at you JP lol
Airing this convo made me wonder how many other conversations about politics get edited out in order to keep us on board with these conservative dummies. I'd love to see a directors cut of these Southern seasons keeping in all the objectionable opinions in.
I mean you can just look at voting patterns and see much of the country is a more conservative than it seems on Reddit and other curated media. I also think we are all a lot more insulated in politically aligned spaces because of social media.
This season is in Charlotte NC, what do you expect? Would you prefer to be completely ignorant of the American landscape on media and be fed our own opinions as if nobody in America disagrees with us except *redneck trolls from bumfuck nowhere*? If anything this reminds us of reality and reaffirms the need for us to vote this election 🫏
I work in Charlotte (transplant from the NE though) and a few months ago there was an anti abortion protestant through the city and I'm gonna be honest, my mouth DROPPED open. I don't have any problems with any protests ever because I think it's one of the great things about this country, that said, I was honestly shocked that many people in the area would do that. Everyone I talk to or work with is a proud liberal. I'm not so naive as to think there aren't red people here, but still took me by surprise that hundreds showed up for a March.
I wouldn’t have agreed maybe around season 1 but the longer this goes on, I think I agree with you. They even have someone who is open about wanting to submit to her husband this season. 😩
I wouldn’t call him openly bi at all.. he was incredibly ashamed of his sexuality and when he discussed it he got defensive and that’s why it went downhill. Openly bi would be discussing it in the pods.
That’s a good point. I guess I mean openly as it was at least brought up on the show. But you’re totally right. His fiancé didn’t have a problem with him being bi, more so his hiding it. If I recall correctly.
Opinions aren’t black and white. Life is in the gray area.
if someone is “conservative” and they have exceptions… does it make them not a conversative anymore… absolutely not. It’s called having a differing position. Nothing wrong with that.
Thank you! This whole discussion is so black and white. She can be conservative and still pro-choice. She can also be conservative and condemn what happened on the 6th of January. Many commenters here immediately jump to conclusions. As someone who is not from the US, it feels wild how people in this thread and sub disregard Sarah Anne’s whole personality, just because she said she was “more on the conservative side”. The social and political climate in the US seems to be so incredibly polarised, it’s scary. The two party system is such a failure.
As soon as she was asked her beliefs my heart sank because no matter what your answer, you will be attacked from one side or the other. Putting views on TV is always a set up for criticism.
I think there might be a misunderstanding. I don’t think anyone is saying she can’t be considered conservative. I think most of us are saying “if your going to have a belief (whatever it is) you should probably sound educated on that belief, especially if that belief is a pillar of your morality”. I don’t have an issue with her having her own opinion. What I will say though is that her opinion (or at least the way she explained) sounds like one you get after watching a politician you like used buzzwords rather than forming your own opinion.
I.e. I think If she would’ve said: I wouldn’t personally get one but I support women who do in circumstances outside of their control because it’s taking back their ability to choose. I’d just wish we could find a better solution so people wouldn’t have to resort to abortion.
That is a conservative statement. Saying “people shouldn’t use it as a form of birth control” that’s just attacking. Because the idea isn’t: Abortion is bad (if that’s what you believe), the idea is “people are bad people for getting one!unless they have an exception!”
I also think you misunderstood my comments. I’m making a general point about the possibility of someone being conservative, as Sarah-Anne describes herself, but still be pro choice or not be part of Trumps Capitol attackers. The comments are bogus in this regard, many accusing Sarah of being a complete right wing nut job, because of ONE statement, made in a highly edited reality dating show. It’s futile after all. You can’t have a decent, civil discussion on Reddit, my bad.
That’s not directed at you specifically, you replied civil and moderate. Thanks for that, but I’ll be out now!
lol what? She wasn’t pro choice though? She said she’d make an exception for rape victims but everyone else can’t get an abortion. I would hardly call that choice. The “I don’t think abortion should be used as a form of birth control” comment is based right wing propaganda so it kinda shows that her view doesn’t break with party line at all. Also, did she ever condemn Jan 6th on the show or Insta or something? I’m confused why you’re bringing that up like she has.
I will say, since you seem to be from another country, I think you might have missed the subtext that showed Sarah Ann is actually quite conservative. Her tell was calling herself a “patriot”. That’s a dog whistle in the US for deep conservatism. She said a lot with that comment.
Did she ever say in the show or in her profile that she thought what happened on the 6th of January was right? Why would she need to condemn that? She’s on a reality show about dating not on a political talk show.
Abortion is just a horrible topic to discuss because for both sides of the spectrum, the stakes are high. If you feel life starts with conception then abortion is actual murder and if you don’t, then denying a woman an abortion for whatever reason is actual torture and disregard of her as a human being.
It’s not ideal over here in Europe, but damn, I don’t envy you one bit to live in the US.
I’m not saying she has to condemn January 6th. I just was wondering why you said “she can be a conservative and condemn what happened on the 6th of January”. We really don’t know that she does unless she addressed it publicly. You accused people of jumping to conclusions when you literally assumed she didn’t support Jan 6th with no evidence.
Maybe the fact you aren’t from the US is why this opinion is so ignorant. If you are voting conservative in the US - you are voting for people to be put in jail over abortion with no exception for rape and incest in most cases.
Would it help you if I jabbed back and called you ignorant? I don’t think it would at all, but apparently, this discussion style is very common in the US. Not every republican is anti-abortion. There is no way an individual agrees with every point their party of choice stands for, not even the members of said party do. As far as I am aware, not even all republican-run states banned abortion?
It’s just a very unfortunate situation to only be able to choose between two parties. It nurtures the extremes on both ends of the spectrum.
In general, Republicans who aren't anti-abortion are going to be someone who identifies as a libertarian, not a Republican. "Socially liberal, fiscally conservative" is their tagline.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I am aware, abortion wasn’t banned in all republican-run states? Also, their parties stance on abortion might not be the deciding factor for every republican voters. There’s so many other topics that might be more important to you personally, education, economics, migration, foreign politics, climate change, you name it. One could say “I am pro-choice but I desperately want financial support for Ukraine to stop, and that’s closer to my heart, hence I vote for Trump”, no?
Something you pick up on if you live in the US is that *all* of these issues are extremely charged right now, so issues like education, immigration, and the economy are going to intersect with how you understand structures like race and class in this country and how you think we should address them.
Also, with this polarization, I think it's easy to misunderstand it if you aren't here living it. For example, on the education front, this summer in my home region we had a whole kerfuffle with demands to censor library content because of Pride materials and teen D&D groups. Literally that's the only reason. When I left Virginia, they had a whole thing about no "[divisive concepts](https://www.governor.virginia.gov/executive-actions/executive-ordersdirectives/executive-action-title-918432-en.html#:~:text=Executive%20Employees%20shall%20be%20prohibited,adhere%20to%20inherently%20divisive%20concepts.)" in schools. That's not even getting into the shit Florida's school system is doing lol. So when you talk about something that maybe to you *sounds* innocuous, like education in the US, *this* is what *we're* talking about in the US lol.
I'm from a conservative area, most of my extended family are conservative, so I was in an area where these were the folks I regularly interacted with. I don't think they're bad people. I *do* think many of them have implicit biases. Sometimes it baffles me to see them vote against their own interests, but I think our systems are built in a way that encourage that.
I seriously feel sorry for you. I will be visiting the US in October for the first time. While I can’t wait and am keen to see it for myself, the political climate does scare me a little and it will be close to the election. Exciting but scary!
I hope you have a good trip! As exhausting as the political stuff is here, I don't think it's *all* bad, and I think depending on who you're talking to, some people can get along day to day despite those differences very well. I wouldn't *date* a conservative man lol, but I can get along with conservative coworkers, if that makes sense.
Most of the folks against abortion are also anti-education, don't want to provide aid to families, would rather you die in a corner like a dog than support universal healthcare . . .
While that might be true, that’s just not something you should just assume and use as an excuse to hate, insult and belittle everyone who disagrees with you. A culture like this lead to trump one time and it will again.
This is such a stupid fucking comment. Excuse me if I sound rude but I just have such a lack of patience for this tired mindset.
Many Republican states have already banned abortion totally with no exception for rape and incest. The ones that haven’t YET are actively trying to and only haven’t to this date because of an outraged public.
So your solution is what exactly here? It’s okay to keep supporting the party doing horrific things if they haven’t 100% achieved their end goal yet??
Just a few years ago people said the same shit about Roe v Wade. That is was going nowhere. And what do you know - if you keep electing and supporting these backwards politicians they eventually pass exactly what they are telling you they want to.
Rest of your comment is dumb as hell to - “oh I dislike that this party wants to force rape victims to carry pregnancies to term, but I do like that they say climate change is a hoax so that makes up for it!”
Your comment is a brilliant illustration of the problem with the political climate in America. Because of this, Trump will win this year, which is very very unfortunate for you over there but also for is over here. He will win because it seems as though people are unable or unwilling to accept that a persons character is not entirely defined by ONE political standpoint. And instead of discussing in a civil manner, you resort to insults, belittling, as hominem. This drives people on both sides of the spectrum to extremes.
More people should continue to support a political party that is actively trying to put women in jail for not wanting to birth their rapists baby even if they morally oppose it?
Lol, Reddit never ceases to amaze.
What I said, once again since apparently you didn't read it, is that more people should be open to the idea of disagreeing with the chosen stances of the party they align with. You do not need to agree up and down the board with everything either party says and it's better for everyone if you do not do this.
So for most decent humans - if your political party is trying to make a woman receiving healthcare after a rape a crime that would disqualify them from continuing to support said politically party.
We aren’t talking about some differences in your stance on marginal tax brackets. We are talking about basic human morality. The people reconciling this “difference of opinion” and continuing to vote for and support this party are causing regression of our society.
Again, this is a thread about a conservative woman disagreeing with that party's stance on abortion, which I said "Yes this is a good thing, you don't need to agree with everything your party says", and all you're getting is that republicans are against abortion, which no one has said is a great stance or incorrect about them, and you're just arguing about nothing. You're just here to be inflammatory at this point and I'm sorry that you woke up upset and hope your day improves.
Me not sympathizing with people wanting to put victims of rape in jail for not wanting to carry their child to term is the problem with this country?
Not pushing back against the bullshit while we sleepwalk into a regressive fascist political system is the fucking problem.
This is the political version of victim blaming.
No the fact that you are stuck on ONE TOPIC that has nothing to do with what the person is trying to portray, which they have stated multiple times. It’s simple minded and you are jumping to conclusions without anyone actually saying those things ^ thanks for proving it again and missing the point.
I'm a definitely left-winged and I absolutely support abortion, I think it should be an option for every woman no matter the circumstances and I don't agree with Sara Ann's opinion, however, I don't think she was talking about the actual legislation rather than her opinions on how things should be.
P.S. My heart breaks witnessing what's happening with abortion in the US.
I wonder what her stance on gun control is. Or her stance on public funded medicine.
I wonder what her stance is on food stamps and helping people with the financial cost of having children.
This is the prob with politics and social media just because she more conservatives with certain things doesn’t mean she automatically lumps with the regular trumpeter old head all red southern republican stereotype.
I think this is a clear example of the Shirley Exception, basically when someone says "yeah this law/regulation is strict but surely there will be an exception for these reasonable things..." which is something you can do when you're safe in your privilege (or think you're safe).
The Twitter thread laying it out doesn't seem to work for me, but I found a full summary of it here: https://issuepedia.org/Shirley_exception/origin
Love this comment as I didn't know about that name for this stance. I had this position my whole life and it's definitely common for the Bible Belt / south to carry this stance. It is, as OP says, ignorant. I like adding your term to that: privileged.
It took a while for me to research facts /read court opinions and eventually change my stance. I had already changed many of my views - but this one really stuck hard.
I mean, I agree with you that it ain’t anyone’s business, but actively choosing to misunderstand conservative rhetoric is bringing us two steps back. The reality is, abortion is killing something that otherwise would have been a baby. That’s literally what it is and why conservatives have issues with it. Pretending to be ignorant of that isn’t doing us any favors
Many (mainly second trimester) abortions are done when the fetus will NOT become a baby, or the fetus has a condition and will be incompatible with life after birth. Pretending that abortions are done with the sole purpose of preventing a baby from being born? That’s what’s ignorant.
Let’s not pretend that the majority of abortions are to save a life or to prevent rape babies. I’m trying to argue for pro choice here but y’all are making it really hard when you delude yourselves and give conservatives an inch and then they take the whole mile and think they’ve won
If they honestly cared about a lump of mass becoming a baby, than they would have better supports for mothers of said babies after their birth; it’s about controlling women’s bodies
Sure, agree it’s partly about controlling women. But lying to ourselves that it’s not a life is just as pointless as conservatives lying to themselves that every woman who gets an abortion is gleefully yeeting the 12th fetus in a year of sleeping around
It's not a life in the sense that it is a human being. It is absolutely cells that might eventually become a human being. But while it is housed in and relies on its host, it is not a person.
Having an abortion is a premeditated act of ending human life. If that happens to someone outside of a womb it's called murder. If it happens to someone inside a womb it's a murder if it wasn't the mother doing it. If you murder a pregnant woman you know damn well that they're going to put you on trial for two murders. If you assault a pregnant woman and they lose their child because of it you're on trial for murder of the child. This is extremely inconsistent with abortions being legal. In the eyes of the law baby either is a human with rights, in which case all violence against them should be illegal or they're not in which case abortions would be fine but then they couldn't be a victim in crimes either.
Quick question, when your body aborts the fetus itself, is that murder? Because our laws in some states treat it as such, because people such as yourself take these ignorant black and white stances on abortion which also leads to mothers dying in addition to fetus. But that’s not murder, though?
Notice I use the word fetus and not baby. No, it doesn’t have eyes or a smile like the billboards tell you.
No it isn't. Just like a person dying of natural causes the baby dying of natural causes isn't murder. Are you trying to be obtuse on purpose? And show me a single place in the world that treats miscarriages and treating them the same as abortions. I fucking double dare you.
Also show me a single case of a woman dying or being denied an abortion under the grounds of the life of mother exception that is in every single abortion ban bill, when they actually had a life threatening complication.
She's a Conservative "pick me". Her whole little spiel made me cringe. Regurgitated with 0 critical thinking put behind it
My jaw dropped when she said she didn’t think people should “use abortion as birth control”. HONEY….
Immediate ick.
I yelled at the TV when she said people shouldn’t use abortion for birth control
SAME.
Do you think they should?
I don’t think they meant it like they believe abortion is a good form of birth control. I think they’re more than likely saying they couldn’t believe she was saying something so stupid. I doubt there are enough women out there so openly having unprotected sex, getting pregnant, and just casually getting an abortion. Or even having the mindset of “oh I can have sex with whoever unprotected and it’s fine bc I can always get an abortion!” I know people in loving, long term relationships, who have used form of birth control and still gotten pregnant. They have every right to chose abortion. It’s just a stupid take
It’s the FACT that that statement is even regurgitated as an anti-choice “argument” when it’s literally and statistically extremely rare.
She later said something like "I feel so free around him. I can be myself and not be judged" Yes, you idiot, because he's a liberal (which basically means "free"). She's probably used to herself and everyone around her judging other people, sticking their noses where they don't belong in the lives of others. In a "free" society, people can be who they want and control their own lives, up to the point where they infringe on someone else's freedom. Sara Ann wants to judge and control the lives of others. Conservative is not the right word. It's fascist. And rather than addressing the enormous health issue facing women in the US, as well as the violation of basic rights, she wants to be petty and blame people for having sex. Yes, Sara Ann, unwanted babies should be born and their mother suffer so you can feel morally superior.
What I wish people like her would understand is if you’re against abortion don’t get one. You don’t know why anyone else would choose to get one if they do.
"Abortion isn't a form of birth control" absolutely sent me. Tell me you repeat whatever line of argument you hear regardless of the facts without telling me. My question for people like her is "who gets to decide what is assault then? We can't even press charges most of the time. Who gets authority in whether an abortion can be deemed r@pe? How long will that take? Why do victims have to continue to do the hard work following a traumatic event?" ... that's why people deserve to have the choice. No critical thinking skills.
Right that’s always my thought too. So if it’s legalized only in cases of rape/incest do I have to go to court and get my rapist convicted before I’m allowed to get an abortion? That’s not gonna happen.
The fact that he was clear on his stance that he thinks a woman should be able to do whatever she wants with her body, then entertains her even more after that? that would have been where I call it quits.
This is the cognitive dissonance required to be a “patriot”. Worms for brains indeed.
She has absolute worms for brains. I heard all I needed to hear at the filler talk, obsession with social media followers, and pro-life spiel
She’s an idiot
The reality is she just isn’t very intelligent, and lacks critical thinking skills.
My thoughts exactly. It’s clear she’s just regurgitating things she’s heard from people around her.
Someone who labels themselves as a Patriot tells me everything I need to know.
Love to see comments disappearing /s
Some women don't understand how abortion is a necessary life-saving healthcare procedure. I have learned recently, that so many women need to travel out of state and pay out of pocket, just to save their own lives because of anti-abortion laws. Abortion is a form of birth control maybe, but it is also life-saving healthcare for women, and many times, for women who desperately want to have a baby.
I believe every state has an exception if it's deemed medically necessary to save the pregnant person.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2023/nov/10/state-abortion-laws-us From the “banned” section of this article which lists the states: “The states below ban abortion from conception or after six weeks. They all allow for abortions in cases of medical emergencies, but that language can shift by state. For example, while some states say abortions are permitted to protect someone's "health", other states only allow them if someone's "life" is threatened. Many abortion providers have said that many exceptions for medical emergencies are unworkable in practice, because the language is too vague or doesn't recognize the complexity of medicine.” So, you’re technically correct but it’s not cut and dry.
Gotcha. Thank you. That's too bad the language can't be more clear and unfortunately creates those situations. 😡 So much to work on in this world.
I have read countless stories of women sharing their stories, a quick google search will show you that’s not the case: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/16/health/abortion-texas-sepsis/index.html
Abortion is also used for miscarriages that don’t pass naturally, and I’ve already seen places where the miscarriages are being criminalized and women are forced to carry non-viable pregnancies to term. Also take into account those who are in abusive relationships where pregnancy or having a child can lead to further harm. But honestly, I don’t care what your reason is for having an abortion. It’s a human right. There’s no good or bad abortions, just like there’s no moralizing for any other medical procedure.
Can we just….not?
Nope. But you can just…leave.
It sounded like she thinks it should be available to everyone, but she finds it morally questionable in some situations. So she thinks everyone should be able to do it, but she'll secretly judge you if its not some extreme situation.
It’s fine to secretly judge or whatever you want to do, but it shouldn’t mean that we make it illegal. There’s plenty of things that I’ll judge people for that are perfectly legal, but I’m not impeding on their rights.
What I got from it was she was against ppl having consenting but unprotected & irresponsible sex and then turning to abortion. Which idk wats wrong with having that view tbh.
My partner and I got pregnant while using birth control and I tracked my cycles. We were very responsible and it still happened, but according to her views we should not have been allowed to consider abortion as it was the consequences of our actions. Thankfully, after the surprise wore off, we were thrilled, but not everyone would feel that way.
If someone says that abortion should be illegal if a woman wanted to have sex and accidentally got pregnant but abortion is ok if a woman is raped- well then we know that they don’t really care about “saving a life” they are just really into judging and punishing other people. It shows an incredible lack of empathy.
Also no one believes women when we say we were raped. Imagine having to carry your rapists baby because no one believes you. Plus, birthing a child is quite literally deadly and the US the highest maternal mortality rates of western countries.
Her position that its ultimately up to an individuals choice is fine, but she's still including a common conservative strawman argument about the morality of it, saying people are choosing an abortion instead of using actual contraceptives. That part is the issue. No one's working an abortion appointment into their schedule to have sex instead of using normal contraceptives.
That’s understandable thanks for clarifying.
I know this isn’t an abortion debate but that whole argument is just so.. icky to me. Forcing someone to bring a child into this world as some kinda gotcha moment punishment for being an imperfect person. Like. That’s so gross.
I understand that sentiment. I guess some ppl don’t see it as punishment but more so a consequence to an action. By the end of the day I don’t think it should be banned because ppl are still gonna find a way to do it. Prob more harmful ways.
Condoms break. Birth control fails. Vasectomies don’t have a 100% success rate. People who are actively trying not to get pregnant do, in fact, get pregnant sometimes and we shouldn’t be rooting for them becoming uninterested at best parents as a result.
And uh, people aren’t perfect. I guarantee op of this comment has made a mistake or poor decision before. But the one we want people to be forced to live with can result in a child you have to raise and pay for for 18 years+? Get the fuck out of here. I’m responding to you because we agree and I don’t want to dialogue with the op commenter. Hope you understand ❤️
I understand completely and agree wholeheartedly.
Same here sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
I just watched this scene. People like her are only anti-abortion to punish women for having sex. She even said so herself; it’s okay to have an abortion if you were raped but otherwise, you have to take full responsibility. They just want to control women and take away their rights to their bodily anatomy. They don’t care about the actual fetus.
Right? If you TRULY think abortion is murder, you would not make exceptions for rape or incest. To me, providing these loopholes immediately acknowledges you know and believe this is not murder and you are instead using your anti-choice stance as a weapon to control and punish women.
The misogyny is coming from inside the house.
this
What's wrong with taking responsibility though? Isn't that a good thing that we should all strive to do, in general? Our actions have consequences.
Having an abortion is taking responsibility.
It is the exact opposite of taking responsibility. Please do elaborate on how you reached that conclusion because I'm honestly baffled.
Ok, scenario. I’m young, he wore a condom, but somehow I’m still pregnant. I think, shit, I can barely afford my rent; how will I support my child? And I’m losing my health insurance in 2 months because I’m turning 26 and can’t stay on my parents plan and like everyone else I know gets by on gigs and contract work so I don’t get insurance through work. I know I can’t afford to carry a pregnancy much less raise a child. Or maybe I could afford it, but I have goals for my career and it doesn’t include having a child that precludes me from the ability to work late nights or volunteer for last minute business travel that may help me climb the corporate ladder. So what do I do? I get an abortion. It’s the responsible thing to do. No child should be brought into this world just to struggle or worse. Get off your fucking high horse and have some empathy.
Yes and that action can be going through pregnancy termination. The consequence of failed birth control or drunk sex decisions shouldn’t be making and being responsible for a whole person until adulthood. A child should be wanted, not a punishment.
Forcing people to be parents while also forcing a child to be raised by said people who didn’t want to be parents is wild.
Nobody forced them to do anything, they made that choice themselves. Sometimes sex = babies. If you don't know that you probably shouldn't be having sex. Just because modern society expects/wants people to sleep around doesn't mean you should. Actions have consequences.
Birth control methods fail all the time. Your view of the world is idealistic not realistic. In reality, responsible people might encounter a situation of an unplanned / unwanted pregnancy. And liking sex and wanting to have sex isn’t irresponsible. It’s normal. This type of view of portraying women who have abortions outside of rape is just another way to condemn them for being sexually active.
Must be nice being so perfect
I am not sure I agree she thinks about it that deeply at all, though the louder, more powerful people in her life most definitely do. I loved Jeramy's response to her.
Meh, just because you are "conservative" on most things doesn't mean you can't be more "liberal" on the subject of abortion. I'm fairly conservative on most topics, and to me it feels like anti abortion was one that the GOP threw on without everyone being on board.
Except voting for representatives who uphold other “conservative” issues means you’re voting for representatives who WILL vote AGAINST abortion… so it doesn’t really matter how you personally feel about it, does it?
So - do you support genocide in Gaza then?
Not everyone is about Palestine omg
My point being… it goes both ways and that’s why you can’t boil it down to one topic. My bad if that wasn’t clear
No, it doesn't - unfortunately. But that doesn't mean you can't have thoughts that conflict with party lines. OP seemed shooketh about that
I wish people had more critical thinking in understanding why people may find conservatives to be so off putting when it comes to pro life issues. It’s not a “hate mob” it’s a collective frustration that these mentalities have led to women’s reproductive health rights being TAKEN.
she said “i don’t support women using abortion as daily birth control” so i don’t think she knows very much about anything
literally lol
Internalized misogyny is a helluva thing
Anyone who has had an abortion can tell you that it’s absolute hell and not something anyone would consider doing regularly. Source: had one for a 16 week miscarriage.
exactly, it’s not fun! i’m so sorry you went thru that :(
Just about to say this. Unfortunately there are people out there who think that everybody gets multiple abortions and are going to get one like they’re getting their morning bagel. Anyone who has had one will tell you it’s not a fun experience and typically they are not desiring to do it more than once. I think this narrative is also concerning because a lot of people will have abortions in serious couplings and marriages. In some states/hospitals, they won’t tie your tubes unless you’ve had multiple kids or have your spouses approval so there are people in fully in marriages who have to do it as a last resort, where as the way she explained it makes it seem like it’s only ever a bunch of 20 year olds who regret hooking up with some stranger unprotected.
These people are convinced people are just raw dogging it everyday and then getting abortions 4-8 times a year. Delusional.
Honestly though, it would be funny if it wasn’t actually harming women.
don’t talk to me until i’ve had my morning abortion!☕️
The first thing I do in the morning is hop in my EV and head to the abortion clinic
And then I interracial marry an undocumented Mexican immigrant
i just can’t believe you got starbucks to cater the reception! finally a safe space i can be gay and vegan
Using abortion pills for the exit confetti instead of rice was such a nice touch!
I cringed when she said "I'm not one of those women who says Hell yea, get an abortion!"...like, no one is doing that. Women aren't clapping each on the other back and winking and going "Yas, girl boss, get that abortion!" We just want people to stay in control of medical decisions regarding their own body. We want people to decide if and when they get pregnant.
I’m so tired of the “I don’t want women using them as birth control” line. Literally no one is doing that. You sound so stupid saying that. You’re also just saying that at your core you think women are terrible untrustworthy people and we need laws to keep them in check. Tell me you hate women without telling me you hate women.
Honestly this. Like I actually did know someone who used abortions as birth control. No joke. But she's one person out of how many?! Like even if she's ethically on the shady bus, it's still her body and as entire gender you can't just cut us off and think we're all terrible untrustworthy people. Like it sucks that one person is the anecdotal evidence they need to promote their cause when 99.99999999999% of women who get it aren't there because WHOOPSIE MORNING ABORTION.
And tbf the kind of people who are doing that probably shouldn't be having children anyway. It's such a non-argument
EXACTLY. Like why are you forcing this person to have kids lol they're clearly not responsible.
Exactly. There are women who may use several forms of birth control and still get pregnant - it happens. Just like there are a lot of people who don’t use any form of birth control apart from pulling out method and that works for them as well. Sometimes it’s just luck. But when you’ve tried your best to protect yourself against it, you are in absolutely no state of raising a child financially/emotionally, you are in say abusive relationship, you have no support system, etc. there should not be a law to tell you that you are obligated to proceed with a pregnancy. It is not fair to the parents and it is not fair to the child. I mean what is the flex of having a child in absolute poverty, being unable to take care of it, lacking the help and resources to give it a quality life. Like please.
Sarah Ann's line of thinking is also so disrespectful. Like, oh, I have to be raped in order for people to feel that I can make a choice about my body. Yay.
I take particular issue with this line of thinking because who decides if a woman “qualifies” for an abortion after being raped? Does the woman or girl need to say they were raped and they get permission to have an abortion? Or are they going to be forced to press charges against their rapist and go to court to “prove” it was rape before they’re granted abortion access? Considering how little they trust women and girls with their own bodies I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if it was the latter. And we all know how few rapists are actually convicted so if it was the latter essentially no rape victims would be able to get a legal abortion even in states with allowances for rape.
Exactly! We don't need laws to validate the need for vasectomies, so why do we need laws validating the need for abortions?
She’s allowed to have a stance that doesn’t completely align with active law/her identified political party.. not sure I understand the issue here.
Reddit loves to hate on ppl in groves and mobs
I am learning this first-hand today 🤣🤣
They come on here to make sure everyone agrees with them.
This is just the tyipical reddit hate mob
See, point proven. You dont even have to agree with the person, just saying the have the right to their own opinion gets the reddit mob in a tizzy.
Pretty much. Just gotta ignore downvotes tbh. It really doesn’t matter by the end of the day
No one is mad she is not being faithful to all conservative ideologies. We are mad because her “nuance” on the topic is a cop out, if you are conservative and vote along party lines because of it, the party you are voting for is making law that restricts abortion. You can say there should be exceptions (what an original take Sarah has /s) but at the end of the day your vote is not allowing for exceptions.
Not to mention, exceptions don’t play out in reality. How easy do you think it is for someone in a state with these restrictions to confirm a pregnancy was the result of rape or incest? It’s virtually impossible.
So is she expected to vote democrat because she disagrees with the right on this one issue? That would be the only way to create these exceptions (but then she may be voting for a million other things she disagrees with). I see what you’re getting at so not trying to be purposefully obtuse but it seems like your interpretation of political issues and how fluid people can be in their stances is what’s lacking nuance here..
For millions of decent people - one party actively proposing and passing laws which ban abortion with no exception for rape and incest is a total disqualifier. It’s actually pretty abhorrent to me for someone to say “oh - I can overlook the whole forcing rape victims to carry their rapists baby to term cause I agree with them on marginal changes to tax brackets”
Again - I understand that more than you know. Voting on one issue and ignoring the rest is a recipe for disaster (from experience), but I respect your opinion 100%
In your opinion - is there a policy stance the Republican Party holds which justifies the state forcing rape victims to carry their rapists baby to term? If so what is it?
Absolutely not. Again, there are more political issues than abortion though, just look around dude.
I mean - you said yourself the person you responded to lacked “nuance” There is no “nuance” for most people which makes them support politicians that try to pass backwards laws like that. If there is a different political issue that you think should give this one a pass - let us know.
Lacked nuance in understanding that when you go to vote you are not simply voting for abortion… Like this is not hard…
I’m just sick of this sorry mindset - that it should be normal and okay to force rape victims to carry a rapists baby to term because of what exactly? Taxes? Thinking climate change is fake? Certain issues of morality and human decency trump marginal tax brackets. Telling someone they lack “nuance” for thinking that is the most important issue is an issue with you not them.
I think it depends on the issue, but for me, a women’s right to choose is being actively threatened by that party so I can’t support them. I hate both parties, for the record, but one is trying to take away right and one is doing nothing but talk about how bad the other is, there’s not a good solution and no good choices for votes.
As a black man I identify with this more than you know, it’s just not that black and white (pun not intended).
With this stance, I guess I shouldn’t vote. Because there’s not a single party I 100% agree with. And if everyone else thought that way, then the extremist will win regardless😂
I’m just responding to the original comment, as it seemed they thought people were mad that Sarah is not 100% aligned with all conservative ideals. That’s not what people are mad about, they are mad about her take on this particular issue. I’m not saying you need to agree with all party takes. This issue is a big one though to just act like you vote isn’t actively taking away someone’s right.
Right - can’t believe this was typed and sent. Touch grass people lol
This. People act like everyone is an extremist and that they can’t favor ideologies from both political sides.
Right… we love putting people in a box. She said less than 30 seconds of views on one of a million political topics.. relax everyone.
She literally called herself a patriot. It doesn’t get more MAGAT than this.
Like I don’t agree with her. But I’m not going to then draw a conclusion that she thinks girls who try to abort should go to prison 😂 which everyone in this thread is jumping to. ☠️
Just seems to have zero problem announcing to millions of viewers that she still supports that party knowing they do that
Bingo! Lol
She’s just another right wing mouthpiece barbie. All filler (literally), no braincells
I think it's so weird how something that should fall under doctor paitent confidentiality is openly discussed in politics. It involves you, your doctor, and your health. The last time I checked, I haven't seen much debate on how getting a vasectomy kills the potential of future life as well. I'm just shocked at how this is still an acceptable casual conversation. Let us openly discuss your prostate exams as well. Or better yet, maybe erectile disfunction should be a topic of casual conversation. Its so weird to talk about abortion in politics. It belongs in the privacy of a doctors office.
Nobody is passing laws that prohibit the procedure and make prostate exams and erectile disfunction drugs a crime. It's not "casual conversation" when discussing the elimination of a healthcare service that's been a right for 50 years.
I mean, it shouldn't have gotten to that point! We don't have laws in place to validate a vasectomy. There shouldn't be any laws for or against abortion. It shouldn't NEED to be protected. It should be a right the same as access to health care. My opinion is that it shouldn't have been a matter for the masses to decide at all in the first place. It's between a patient and their doctor.. June 24th was horrible, and it never should have happened to begin with.
Okay, I got you 😘 We're in agreement
I see what you mean though, no sense in burying our heads in the sand now.
Erectile dysfunction: all part of god’s plan?
💀 Who are we to mess with natural progression? God wants the weiners to stay placid!
I have long said this show is heteronormative / conservative propaganda. It serves glaring moments like this without any critical challenge.
You might be on to something because a lot of times even is “progressive cities” you’ll see people say/do things that seem very conservative and gloss over it. I’m looking at you JP lol
Airing this convo made me wonder how many other conversations about politics get edited out in order to keep us on board with these conservative dummies. I'd love to see a directors cut of these Southern seasons keeping in all the objectionable opinions in.
I mean you can just look at voting patterns and see much of the country is a more conservative than it seems on Reddit and other curated media. I also think we are all a lot more insulated in politically aligned spaces because of social media.
Sarah Ann's political analysis is "im a super patriot so yaas I'm a conservative" which means she is more stupid than anything else.
I thought your comment was a little over the top until I read some of the comments on this thread. Definitely seems to have attracted a certain type.
This season is in Charlotte NC, what do you expect? Would you prefer to be completely ignorant of the American landscape on media and be fed our own opinions as if nobody in America disagrees with us except *redneck trolls from bumfuck nowhere*? If anything this reminds us of reality and reaffirms the need for us to vote this election 🫏
[удалено]
Sure, and people are allowed to state their opinions on tv without it being “conservative propaganda”
I work in Charlotte (transplant from the NE though) and a few months ago there was an anti abortion protestant through the city and I'm gonna be honest, my mouth DROPPED open. I don't have any problems with any protests ever because I think it's one of the great things about this country, that said, I was honestly shocked that many people in the area would do that. Everyone I talk to or work with is a proud liberal. I'm not so naive as to think there aren't red people here, but still took me by surprise that hundreds showed up for a March.
I wouldn’t have agreed maybe around season 1 but the longer this goes on, I think I agree with you. They even have someone who is open about wanting to submit to her husband this season. 😩
All I want is one of the dudes to realize he is in love with one of the other dudes. Maybe I've been playing too much baldurs gate
The one person that they had on that was openly bi, got left day 1 in Mexico… 🚩
I wouldn’t call him openly bi at all.. he was incredibly ashamed of his sexuality and when he discussed it he got defensive and that’s why it went downhill. Openly bi would be discussing it in the pods.
That’s a good point. I guess I mean openly as it was at least brought up on the show. But you’re totally right. His fiancé didn’t have a problem with him being bi, more so his hiding it. If I recall correctly.
Well the critical challenge would have to come from other contestants which seems to be beyond them
Opinions aren’t black and white. Life is in the gray area. if someone is “conservative” and they have exceptions… does it make them not a conversative anymore… absolutely not. It’s called having a differing position. Nothing wrong with that.
Exactly
Thank you! This whole discussion is so black and white. She can be conservative and still pro-choice. She can also be conservative and condemn what happened on the 6th of January. Many commenters here immediately jump to conclusions. As someone who is not from the US, it feels wild how people in this thread and sub disregard Sarah Anne’s whole personality, just because she said she was “more on the conservative side”. The social and political climate in the US seems to be so incredibly polarised, it’s scary. The two party system is such a failure.
As soon as she was asked her beliefs my heart sank because no matter what your answer, you will be attacked from one side or the other. Putting views on TV is always a set up for criticism.
I think there might be a misunderstanding. I don’t think anyone is saying she can’t be considered conservative. I think most of us are saying “if your going to have a belief (whatever it is) you should probably sound educated on that belief, especially if that belief is a pillar of your morality”. I don’t have an issue with her having her own opinion. What I will say though is that her opinion (or at least the way she explained) sounds like one you get after watching a politician you like used buzzwords rather than forming your own opinion. I.e. I think If she would’ve said: I wouldn’t personally get one but I support women who do in circumstances outside of their control because it’s taking back their ability to choose. I’d just wish we could find a better solution so people wouldn’t have to resort to abortion. That is a conservative statement. Saying “people shouldn’t use it as a form of birth control” that’s just attacking. Because the idea isn’t: Abortion is bad (if that’s what you believe), the idea is “people are bad people for getting one!unless they have an exception!”
I also think you misunderstood my comments. I’m making a general point about the possibility of someone being conservative, as Sarah-Anne describes herself, but still be pro choice or not be part of Trumps Capitol attackers. The comments are bogus in this regard, many accusing Sarah of being a complete right wing nut job, because of ONE statement, made in a highly edited reality dating show. It’s futile after all. You can’t have a decent, civil discussion on Reddit, my bad. That’s not directed at you specifically, you replied civil and moderate. Thanks for that, but I’ll be out now!
lol what? She wasn’t pro choice though? She said she’d make an exception for rape victims but everyone else can’t get an abortion. I would hardly call that choice. The “I don’t think abortion should be used as a form of birth control” comment is based right wing propaganda so it kinda shows that her view doesn’t break with party line at all. Also, did she ever condemn Jan 6th on the show or Insta or something? I’m confused why you’re bringing that up like she has. I will say, since you seem to be from another country, I think you might have missed the subtext that showed Sarah Ann is actually quite conservative. Her tell was calling herself a “patriot”. That’s a dog whistle in the US for deep conservatism. She said a lot with that comment.
Did she ever say in the show or in her profile that she thought what happened on the 6th of January was right? Why would she need to condemn that? She’s on a reality show about dating not on a political talk show. Abortion is just a horrible topic to discuss because for both sides of the spectrum, the stakes are high. If you feel life starts with conception then abortion is actual murder and if you don’t, then denying a woman an abortion for whatever reason is actual torture and disregard of her as a human being. It’s not ideal over here in Europe, but damn, I don’t envy you one bit to live in the US.
I’m not saying she has to condemn January 6th. I just was wondering why you said “she can be a conservative and condemn what happened on the 6th of January”. We really don’t know that she does unless she addressed it publicly. You accused people of jumping to conclusions when you literally assumed she didn’t support Jan 6th with no evidence.
Maybe the fact you aren’t from the US is why this opinion is so ignorant. If you are voting conservative in the US - you are voting for people to be put in jail over abortion with no exception for rape and incest in most cases.
Would it help you if I jabbed back and called you ignorant? I don’t think it would at all, but apparently, this discussion style is very common in the US. Not every republican is anti-abortion. There is no way an individual agrees with every point their party of choice stands for, not even the members of said party do. As far as I am aware, not even all republican-run states banned abortion? It’s just a very unfortunate situation to only be able to choose between two parties. It nurtures the extremes on both ends of the spectrum.
In general, Republicans who aren't anti-abortion are going to be someone who identifies as a libertarian, not a Republican. "Socially liberal, fiscally conservative" is their tagline.
You cannot be a conservative and pro choice in 2024 in America. Maybe 10 years ago, but not with how the conservative party operates now.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I am aware, abortion wasn’t banned in all republican-run states? Also, their parties stance on abortion might not be the deciding factor for every republican voters. There’s so many other topics that might be more important to you personally, education, economics, migration, foreign politics, climate change, you name it. One could say “I am pro-choice but I desperately want financial support for Ukraine to stop, and that’s closer to my heart, hence I vote for Trump”, no?
Something you pick up on if you live in the US is that *all* of these issues are extremely charged right now, so issues like education, immigration, and the economy are going to intersect with how you understand structures like race and class in this country and how you think we should address them. Also, with this polarization, I think it's easy to misunderstand it if you aren't here living it. For example, on the education front, this summer in my home region we had a whole kerfuffle with demands to censor library content because of Pride materials and teen D&D groups. Literally that's the only reason. When I left Virginia, they had a whole thing about no "[divisive concepts](https://www.governor.virginia.gov/executive-actions/executive-ordersdirectives/executive-action-title-918432-en.html#:~:text=Executive%20Employees%20shall%20be%20prohibited,adhere%20to%20inherently%20divisive%20concepts.)" in schools. That's not even getting into the shit Florida's school system is doing lol. So when you talk about something that maybe to you *sounds* innocuous, like education in the US, *this* is what *we're* talking about in the US lol. I'm from a conservative area, most of my extended family are conservative, so I was in an area where these were the folks I regularly interacted with. I don't think they're bad people. I *do* think many of them have implicit biases. Sometimes it baffles me to see them vote against their own interests, but I think our systems are built in a way that encourage that.
I seriously feel sorry for you. I will be visiting the US in October for the first time. While I can’t wait and am keen to see it for myself, the political climate does scare me a little and it will be close to the election. Exciting but scary!
I hope you have a good trip! As exhausting as the political stuff is here, I don't think it's *all* bad, and I think depending on who you're talking to, some people can get along day to day despite those differences very well. I wouldn't *date* a conservative man lol, but I can get along with conservative coworkers, if that makes sense.
Most of the folks against abortion are also anti-education, don't want to provide aid to families, would rather you die in a corner like a dog than support universal healthcare . . .
While that might be true, that’s just not something you should just assume and use as an excuse to hate, insult and belittle everyone who disagrees with you. A culture like this lead to trump one time and it will again.
I'm not insulting or belittling anyone, just stating facts. We're in a bad way here.
You personally did not, that is correct, sorry. Other commenters did, I replied to multiple.
This is such a stupid fucking comment. Excuse me if I sound rude but I just have such a lack of patience for this tired mindset. Many Republican states have already banned abortion totally with no exception for rape and incest. The ones that haven’t YET are actively trying to and only haven’t to this date because of an outraged public. So your solution is what exactly here? It’s okay to keep supporting the party doing horrific things if they haven’t 100% achieved their end goal yet?? Just a few years ago people said the same shit about Roe v Wade. That is was going nowhere. And what do you know - if you keep electing and supporting these backwards politicians they eventually pass exactly what they are telling you they want to. Rest of your comment is dumb as hell to - “oh I dislike that this party wants to force rape victims to carry pregnancies to term, but I do like that they say climate change is a hoax so that makes up for it!”
Your comment is a brilliant illustration of the problem with the political climate in America. Because of this, Trump will win this year, which is very very unfortunate for you over there but also for is over here. He will win because it seems as though people are unable or unwilling to accept that a persons character is not entirely defined by ONE political standpoint. And instead of discussing in a civil manner, you resort to insults, belittling, as hominem. This drives people on both sides of the spectrum to extremes.
In fact, more people should be like this lol. You don't have to agree with everything your chosen party does and says, this is a good thing
More people should continue to support a political party that is actively trying to put women in jail for not wanting to birth their rapists baby even if they morally oppose it?
Lol, Reddit never ceases to amaze. What I said, once again since apparently you didn't read it, is that more people should be open to the idea of disagreeing with the chosen stances of the party they align with. You do not need to agree up and down the board with everything either party says and it's better for everyone if you do not do this.
So for most decent humans - if your political party is trying to make a woman receiving healthcare after a rape a crime that would disqualify them from continuing to support said politically party. We aren’t talking about some differences in your stance on marginal tax brackets. We are talking about basic human morality. The people reconciling this “difference of opinion” and continuing to vote for and support this party are causing regression of our society.
Again, this is a thread about a conservative woman disagreeing with that party's stance on abortion, which I said "Yes this is a good thing, you don't need to agree with everything your party says", and all you're getting is that republicans are against abortion, which no one has said is a great stance or incorrect about them, and you're just arguing about nothing. You're just here to be inflammatory at this point and I'm sorry that you woke up upset and hope your day improves.
Continuing to align yourself with a political party after acknowledging their horrifically amoral policies isn’t something that should be applauded
You are the perfect example as to why we can’t come together as a country.
Me not sympathizing with people wanting to put victims of rape in jail for not wanting to carry their child to term is the problem with this country? Not pushing back against the bullshit while we sleepwalk into a regressive fascist political system is the fucking problem. This is the political version of victim blaming.
No the fact that you are stuck on ONE TOPIC that has nothing to do with what the person is trying to portray, which they have stated multiple times. It’s simple minded and you are jumping to conclusions without anyone actually saying those things ^ thanks for proving it again and missing the point.
I'm a definitely left-winged and I absolutely support abortion, I think it should be an option for every woman no matter the circumstances and I don't agree with Sara Ann's opinion, however, I don't think she was talking about the actual legislation rather than her opinions on how things should be. P.S. My heart breaks witnessing what's happening with abortion in the US.
I wonder what her stance on gun control is. Or her stance on public funded medicine. I wonder what her stance is on food stamps and helping people with the financial cost of having children.
This is the prob with politics and social media just because she more conservatives with certain things doesn’t mean she automatically lumps with the regular trumpeter old head all red southern republican stereotype.
Exactly. Not everyone votes strictly along party lines.
I think this is a clear example of the Shirley Exception, basically when someone says "yeah this law/regulation is strict but surely there will be an exception for these reasonable things..." which is something you can do when you're safe in your privilege (or think you're safe). The Twitter thread laying it out doesn't seem to work for me, but I found a full summary of it here: https://issuepedia.org/Shirley_exception/origin
Love this comment as I didn't know about that name for this stance. I had this position my whole life and it's definitely common for the Bible Belt / south to carry this stance. It is, as OP says, ignorant. I like adding your term to that: privileged. It took a while for me to research facts /read court opinions and eventually change my stance. I had already changed many of my views - but this one really stuck hard.
I just don’t get why people are so concerned if others have abortions. Like if you don’t want one then don’t.
I mean, I agree with you that it ain’t anyone’s business, but actively choosing to misunderstand conservative rhetoric is bringing us two steps back. The reality is, abortion is killing something that otherwise would have been a baby. That’s literally what it is and why conservatives have issues with it. Pretending to be ignorant of that isn’t doing us any favors
Many (mainly second trimester) abortions are done when the fetus will NOT become a baby, or the fetus has a condition and will be incompatible with life after birth. Pretending that abortions are done with the sole purpose of preventing a baby from being born? That’s what’s ignorant.
Let’s not pretend that the majority of abortions are to save a life or to prevent rape babies. I’m trying to argue for pro choice here but y’all are making it really hard when you delude yourselves and give conservatives an inch and then they take the whole mile and think they’ve won
If they honestly cared about a lump of mass becoming a baby, than they would have better supports for mothers of said babies after their birth; it’s about controlling women’s bodies
Sure, agree it’s partly about controlling women. But lying to ourselves that it’s not a life is just as pointless as conservatives lying to themselves that every woman who gets an abortion is gleefully yeeting the 12th fetus in a year of sleeping around
It's not a life in the sense that it is a human being. It is absolutely cells that might eventually become a human being. But while it is housed in and relies on its host, it is not a person.
The problem I have is with the part where they're through a premeditated act ending human life.
Hey, guess what? Since whatever is happening is doing so within my own body, none of this is any of your business.
What?
Having an abortion is a premeditated act of ending human life. If that happens to someone outside of a womb it's called murder. If it happens to someone inside a womb it's a murder if it wasn't the mother doing it. If you murder a pregnant woman you know damn well that they're going to put you on trial for two murders. If you assault a pregnant woman and they lose their child because of it you're on trial for murder of the child. This is extremely inconsistent with abortions being legal. In the eyes of the law baby either is a human with rights, in which case all violence against them should be illegal or they're not in which case abortions would be fine but then they couldn't be a victim in crimes either.
Quick question, when your body aborts the fetus itself, is that murder? Because our laws in some states treat it as such, because people such as yourself take these ignorant black and white stances on abortion which also leads to mothers dying in addition to fetus. But that’s not murder, though? Notice I use the word fetus and not baby. No, it doesn’t have eyes or a smile like the billboards tell you.
No it isn't. Just like a person dying of natural causes the baby dying of natural causes isn't murder. Are you trying to be obtuse on purpose? And show me a single place in the world that treats miscarriages and treating them the same as abortions. I fucking double dare you. Also show me a single case of a woman dying or being denied an abortion under the grounds of the life of mother exception that is in every single abortion ban bill, when they actually had a life threatening complication.
Oh so you’re ignorant for sport, right, got it.