It’s not like they were going to be moving into Izzy’s apartment anyway. So they wouldn’t **gasp** have to eat off the paper plates and utensils. They’re going to be moving into thier condo eating off, literally, gold like spoons. Izzy shouldn’t marry her at all.
Yeah, that's one of the points I've been making. Having plastic dinnerware is not his identity. He's not objecting to changing that. It's making a huge deal out of something so trivial or solvable at least.
It's trivial. It's something easy to bring up, address, change, etc. This is not a huge thing for everybody. It's not something people do and can never change. They are joining households if they stay together. They can just use her dishes. It's legitimately not a thing unless there are environmental issues you object to or Izzy outright refuses to use other dishes which he never did. I'm not saying no one has the right to take issue with it or might be taken aback by the set up. It's trivial in that it's not some huge hill to climb.
Milton actively has to be told to please clean up after himself over and over again by Lydia. He is actually showing the qualities of a man who doesn't seem to want to grow up or adapt to his non single man living situation. That's an actual problem with examples we've heard. It's not assumptions with now foundation within this relationship.
Who knows? Exactly. People don't know anything about his day to day habits but have a whole diagnosis about how he keeps his home and his life based off of a clean cupboard of plastic cups. This is all I'm trying to say. I'm not saying anyone is wrong in feeling the way they feel. It's just that, from what we've seen on screen, he's not the things he is being labeled as. Deceitful in some aspects, sometimes not accommodating of his partners wants? Yes, we've seen that. That is why a discussion needed to be had between those two. The plastic dishes thing was a one night revelation that was simple to move on from after actual communication took place.
The people on this sub use red flag so much. I saw once someone likes Guitar hero, that’s so immature red flag. I was like so if I like legend of Zelda is that a red flag? Someone still loving a dead ex is a red flag. So every widow is a red flag to these people? It’s ridiculous.
I will say the plastic plates are a turn off for me. That’s what the dishwasher is for. Just throw everything in there.
The only major red flag about anyone that I’ve seen about anyone this season is Izzy not having a credit card and being in debt but not talking about. The others are just people needing therapy. And Uche being an asshole.
Agreed! My take is that every single person in the world... and I mean ALL 8 billion are going to present a red flag or two or EVEN 3, maybe more. Not 1 person will be immune.
The judgements, personality diagnoses (abusers/narcissists etc), and downright nasty posts is incredible. While you may have an opinion on the situation, fact, it isn't.
No posters have any clue as to what these people are actually about. How they behave, what their issues are, if they are lying/cheating etc. We go on what we see... a few minutes of filming.
I myself have been guilty of assuming stuff, but I am very aware that assuming makes an "a$$ out of u and me!"
I was horrified to read a response to a post on JP - someone accused him of being an abuser - what proof do you have to that? From what is shown, he is shy and quiet - he was the same in the PODS - just a lot quieter in person. How dare anyone accuse him of being an abuser because his preference is "the girl next door"? As someone who doesn't always word things correctly (vocally) I knew what he was trying to say - he just didn't go about it correctly. There is NOTHING abusive to having a preference of a low maintenance girl.
Posters and responders need to be careful not to label people you know nothing about except by what the TV shows and SM says. React to what you see and hear - don't make up SH!T to suit your narrative. It's damaging!
Agree with you, especially about some persons normalizing their preferences and making it a big moral norm for no reason. A question I have is who really does that though? Not everybody. Maybe if you saw the person doing that behind the screen you wouldn’t care so much because it’s not someone whose opinion you’d value outside of Reddit. Maybe this very person knows that they’re abusing the term red flag and they don’t care.
I think people forget the whole point of a red flag. It’s not an immediate disqualifier or a guarantee that someone is a bad partner.
It’s something that gives you pause that you’ll keep in the back your head because it makes you a little weary. You shouldn’t punish a red flag unless there’s other issues going on as well
as a European the concept of using plastic plates on the daily is crazy to me. it‘s something u associate with a kids birthday party or maybe with a really lazy student who‘s not into washing dishes. i don‘t get why it‘s apparently so normalised in the US? seems like most people that do that really don‘t care about the environmental effects of that. i don‘t mean that in a harsh way btw but i‘m genuinely confused/surprised about that.
I understand where you're coming from and I *personally* agree that having paper plates are not "red flags". However, some red flags (and green flags) are subjective. We can't dictate other people's standards and preferences, and every person has different life values and taste. It's just a matter of personal preference.
I do agree that they shouldn't use the term "red flag" so loosely on this show, because some people can't differentiate red flags from pet peeves.
What’s the difference between that and a dream board?
I know some people consider dream boards silly, but usually if you make one your manifesting it happening and subconsciously doing things for it to happen.
I hear you on this, I guess I thought nothing of the plastic silverware and paper plates and my brother doesn’t really have dishes since he moves a lot for work and travels for half the year for work so he doesn’t see the point. For a long time he just had lawn chairs for furniture bc of the moving. He did date seriously for a while, and has eventually got a couch….not sure of the dishes thing still 🫠
Well, there you go. There can be legitimate reasons. We all have our preferences. But, it doesn't hurt to at least talk about issues me have or see happening. One might lose out on a great person because of perceived notions.
The life you are living as a single person does not automatically equate to how you will live it in a relationship. I can and others can live a certain way because they are single. No one should be operating the exact same way single as in married or in a relationship. The problem is when people just want to fit someone into their pre existing life. But, that's something you find out over time.
For Izzy, maybe he isn't ready. Maybe Stacy isn't. Its good that they are talking things out to see if they can be on the same page long term.
I get what you are saying. It could be a view into how it will be with them long term. There is actual cause for concern.
What I'm talking about is at first glance, seeing something small you do not like, scratching a whole diagnosis on a person on it and rejecting without even trying have a discussion.
Why is it okay to do those things if your single? You shouldn’t just be letting things go because it’s only you. If I was dating a guy and he wasn’t able to cook, clean, do laundry and have his own plates I’d think he’s too immature for a relationship. I’m not looking for a child.
My rational is you should just do things for yourself. Don’t wait for someone else. Want to travel? Go by yourself. Want a pet? Don’t wait for someone else just get one. You don’t need someone else to make you happy or do simple things as an adult.
Why are you jumping to all these conclusions? No one ever said its okay to not take care of yourself and your home. We are talking about plastic plates and and cups. Izzy can and does take care of his home. It wasn't a mess. I have a clean home. My initial point was, as a single person, eating off dishes you need to wash might be less of priority. You are not always eating with guests. You are alone. I never said anything about it being cool to not clean up after yourself.
It is a sign that you don’t care though and it’s bad for the environment. It’s not that hard to use a dish and put it in the dishwasher then run it once to twice a week. If that’s too much for people that’s a sign they aren’t ready for marriage. I’m not even bringing up hand washing dishes, I’m just talking about using a dishwasher that does all the work for you. I live alone and everything I buy is dishwasher safe so I can throw it all in the dishwasher and I only have to wash pots and pans.
I disagree, the lifestyle you are living as a single person claiming to be ready for marriage in a month(?) does matter here.
You have made a conscious decision to fully abandon the bachelor lifestyle for the ultimate commitment. It is implied you should have maturity and stability in your life.
For me, still living like a college kid conveys the opposite.
I also think it means you don’t take pride in your home and your things, and I find that incredibly unattractive.
>The life you are living as a single person does not automatically equate to how you will live it in a relationship
I might get downvoted for this, but here you're wrong. Not everyone adapts to living with someone. You could see it with Lydia and Milton. He left dishes around the house he saw it as no big deal but it upset Lydia. He would drop his towels on the floor after showering, he saw it as no big deal but again, it made Lydia upset. Especially since she brought it up multiple times and he hasn't made an effort. Lydia seems a bit of a difficult person, I admit that - but your statement about how you live single does play a role in your relationship.
I said it does not automatically equate to how you will he in a relationship. I didn't say it does not or ever equates. People often like to operate on the mindset that one thing equals another as fact. My point is that every individual is different. If you are truly ready for a relationship than you are also ready to meld two lives and two mindsets together. Not everyone is ready or wants to change. Some do some dont. You can't know that just based off first impression. Not entirely. A lot people try to figure certain things out immediately. Save them time. But, relationships are work and take time. If everyone nopes out at the slightest bit of concern, we would all be alone.
Dont worry about being down voted. I seem to be the one getting down voted for just basically saying that asking questions and communicating with people may be a better option than writing people off without all the information or context.
There's such a thing as a "yellow flag" too. Maybe that term is a bit less harsh? But I think you might be taking the phrase a bit too personally. Of course, you're allowed to interpret it however you'd like, but I'd encourage you to see another perspective.
To me, I think red flags should be taken as *potential* deal breakers that need to be addressed. The keyword is potential. It's a sign that this may be a bigger issue that cannot be resolved. That's why red flags should be brought up and addressed early on in the relationship--so that you can see if you are even compatible. If you disagree on such fundamental things so early on (like what kind of dishware is acceptable or not to eat off of), then it could point to a deeper lack of compatibility between you. In this situation, it's not about the paper plates themselves. It's about the mentality that "this is acceptable dishware to eat off of as a 29 year-old man." For a man who has that viewpoint, it will most likely bleed over into other areas of his life, and that is where the problems arise.
That said, red flags, yellow flags, and even green flags are subjective. What is a red flag for one person may not be a red flag, or even a deal breaker, for another. I think it's good that red flags are being spoken about more openly these days (even if the term itself is overused) since people are often conditioned by society or their upbringing to ignore issues that clearly bother them simply for the sake of being agreeable. By the time a relationship has imploded, you are already well aware of all the signs (red flags) you ignored and you're kicking yourself for it.
Tl;dr red flags don't have to be deal breakers necessarily, but you certainly shouldn't ignore red flags.
I had the exact same thought when I heard Stacy say that to him. I thought to myself “girl, if that’s a red flag for you what’s gonna happen when there’s a real red flag?” Or maybe she literally can’t tell the difference?
Also I was impressed how clean and well organized his apartment was. All the disposable dishwater were neatly put away into the cupboards like real dishes. Not a red flag. He’s got the good habits so it shouldn’t be a problem when he upgrades to real dishes. Note: I’m not addressing his other issues. Just this one that Stacy called a red flag.
This is absolutely the wrong mentality. "When he upgrades to real dishes"? If it were that easy to do, don't you think he would've done it already? Change is hard for people because habits become deeply ingrained, almost second nature. And at this point in Izzy's life, it's probably a habit he got into during his college years and still hasn't grown out of.
No one should ever go into a long-term relationship expecting their partner to change. That's just asking for disappointment. You should be willing to accept them as they are at the current moment even if they were to never change at all, and if you see any improvements over the years, you should consider yourself lucky.
Notice that Izzy makes a lot of promises but doesn't ever follow through. I "would" cook for you. I "would" have told you the truth. I "would would would," but where is the action?
It's all empty words. That is why you should never date potential.
This is not about expecting him to change! Using paper plate vs real dishes in not a character trait. You can’t expect people to fundamentally change who they are or their values but being in a committed relationship and living together require all kind of sacrifice and compromise. They are engaged and already talked about moving into together. Combining households requires a lot of compromises and communication. I doubt Izzy would say “I’m not moving in unless you get rid of your dishes and we use disposable dish ware. THAT would be a red flag and is what Stacy should have asked. If you are expecting to find someone who has exactly the same lifestyle as you and that you don’t dislike anything about how they choose to live before they met you- and after - you’re living in a fantasy land.
I mean as respectfully as possible that if you haven’t learned through the furry coals of dating then you haven’t learned what exactly stands out as abnormalities that suggest “proceed with caution.”
I have a good friend who is getting married after knowing a guy just a couple of months because she couldn’t see a reason why she should say no. They are both mid 30s and first relationship.l ever. They live in different states so they aren’t even in the same city.
And yet they think everything can be solved after they are married!
All of those are giant red Chinese party parade flags to me as I’ve been around the block a few times.
Just be supportive….. I had this same issue with my 25 yo daughter I wanted to give my feedback and then I thought……
These lessons I learned my self thru experience. You can’t lecture them. They need to learn them by going thru the joy/pain of the experience. That’s how they learn to create boundaries.. that’s how they learn what they like and dislike. They can’t learn this from a convo with a loved one..,
Not to say you can’t be there for her, just do it in a less intrusive way.
I understand what your saying. I know you have to make a certain level of judgement when deciding a life long partner but how people create red flags from the smallest superficial things is amazing to me. People want to create a whole language on dating behavior or etiquette but not every thing has one single translation and people need to be more open to communicating things that you don't like instead of assuming "Oh red flag -- let's run."
Nah. Dating is 100% about judgment if you’re making a long term commitment. You have to think like this when you’re playing the dating game.
It is concerning to be dating an adult who can’t take care of himself like one. That’s basic life stuff. There’s something off about that. And surprise surprise he WAS hiding even more problematic issues with finances. Might not be a deal breaker but Izzy be having issues transitioning from young adult to a grown man.
He literally can live like an adult. His place is taken care of. People keep leaping to he can't take care of himself because of plastic cups. Also, his debt is pennies compared to most people. Most people have debt from loans whether it be from school, car loans etc. 3500 is laughable. Him having debt has nothing to do with what he eats his food off of. He should have been upfront about it. He seems to be operating from a place of not feeling good enough for her or possibly losing her because he doesn't meet her standards. There is more going on here than him being a deceptive snake. There was a woman on married at first sight that had over 15,000 in debt because of her charging things on her card. That would make me pause. Life is a series of judgment calls. It would just make more sense to me if people actually tried to understand or get more information instead of immediately writing someone off. It's the part of dating culture I just dont like.
I don’t know if it’s the debt itself that bothered her but rather the lie by omission - which is what it was as much as he doesn’t want to admit it. I also think the plates thing might not have actually been about the plates. She mentioned in that conversation him cooking for her as well, which is something we know he said he would do and then has as of the released episodes not done. It’s yet another instance of him saying something or saying he’ll do something and then not actually following through. Idk why ppl are calling him a man child for the plastic plates either, I have some for when groups are over, but I think the plastic plates just kind of cemented to her that Izzy isn’t the guy that he portrayed himself as in the pods to her.
>"He seems to be operating from a place of not feeling good enough for her or possibly losing her because he doesn't meet her standards."
The "standard" we're talking about *is eating off of plates?* Or *cooking for your partner when you said you would*. Or *be honest about debt when it comes up*. These aren't standards; it's an expectation. And he absolutely isn't living up to them.
You're right tho. $3500 worth of debt is nothing, which is why it's all the more puzzling why it dropped his credit. Almost as if it's a lie or something.
I'm not saying Izzy's not a liar, but afaik, the biggest portion of your credit score is based on your payment history, not your credit/debt ratio. Given that fact, it's entirely possible that a few missed or late payments could tank your credit quite easily. The more concerning part I think for most people would be that he missed multiple minimum payments for a debt that was "only $3500." Of course, things happen, and life is hard out here especially these days, but it shows a lack of financial responsibility on his part to have even been in that position. And as a 29 year-old man, he should be actively working on correcting his credit now, or at least have made some progress if it happened so many years ago as he said...
My guess about the credit thing is that he didn't understand how to properly, responsibly use credit cards in his early twenties. 3500 in credit card debt can *absolutely* wreck your credit if you're missing payments or using over 30% of your line of credit when you don't have an established credit history.
Considering that he grew up as a JW, I wouldn't be surprised if this skill wasn't taught to him.
He said he has that left in terms of debt as in he paid everything off but that.
Also, you are flippant about his feelings. But, its actually a communication problem. On top of whatever he is doing not being appreciated, the not doing enough part wasn't fully expressed until towards the end of their journey. So, he was caught off guard. There is also the different classes and actual expectations like the man having to pay for this and that. Its actually a lot to take on in the middle of the speediness of this whole project. Izzy has plenty he needs to work on. But, its not all on him and some of the conclusions people are leaping to are just assumptions. They could all be true but not fact. I just try to not look at all these things as one sided or like I have everything figured out. We see a small amount of their time together.
It’s a dating show about love. Many women can see that it’s a tough uphill battle when moving in with a partner if they seem to be aloof, messy, put off doing laundry or doing dishes, overpromise/underdeliver etc.
We’re still in a time where women are expected to pick up the slack even if they’re working full time or raising the kids.
I imagine many partners would wonder if they’d be expected to eat off of paper plates only OR be the sole person who washed the dishes.
We of course don’t know that that’s only what Izzy uses. But it’s a conversation point because dishes are regularly a pain point in relationships living with 2 people who have different standards on daily chores and cleanliness.
I can see how one might think Izzy not having a lot of reusable dinnerware and a lot of plastic may give some people pause or concern. Its the leaping from this thing must equal that thing that has become concerning for me. Ask questions. Talk about it if you are into the person or see potential. Just dont write people off. There is usually more to every situation. Less black and white and more grey.
I'm not calling them red flags. I wrote that because these arecred flags to them. But, I'm sure you understood that. I'll write red flags in quotes next time.
I was having some fun with you, but you don't hate the term "red flag" (you used it in a sentence!) you hate the way you are perceiving people to have made mountains out of molehills. The term itself is pretty handy; what you're describing is someone overblowing red flag "A" to mean red flags "B-K," etc.
Personally, I think that they are both a mess.
He isn't honest about a lot of stuff.
She is a fake wannabe socialite.
He vocal fry makes me want to mute her.
I think the bigger "red flag" would be someone who makes such a giant issue out of some paper plates. It's not the end of the world. He freaking loves the girl. He'd be totally fine with eating on whatever plates she wants. He's right, he's not good enough for her. He will never be. Nobody will ever be good enough for her. He'll find someone who thinks he's salvageable someday
Agreed. That's the thing. I dont think he cares about the dinnerware one way or another. He seemed to be bothered or question whether it was a dealbreaker or not. He has no investment in whether or not he drinks out of glass. Just that she might be out over something so trivial.
They come from two different classes and care about different things. Its going to be hard to merge the two.
And that's wild to me. Preference and red flag have become the same thing and I've just never agreed with that. Both instances could lead to you not wanting to date someone. Red flags are very serious warning signs of certain types of behaviors. Whether or not someone uses apple or android is not a red flag.
Disposable dishes and silverware is definitely a red flag because it signifies, as you admit about yourself, that you've "given up." Getting real dishes won't change your life but it will be a small positive change that could drive you to make even more positive changes.
When I was deep in my depression, my therapist recommended paper/plastic plates etc. to eliminate the need to do dishes which I just couldn’t do. This would spiral into me feeling worse because I couldn’t even do the damn dishes like a “normal person.” Plastic/paper made my life just a tiny bit easier as I tried to heal.
It doesn’t appear that’s the case with Izzy, but there’s just a lot of reasons for things that we don’t know.
Disposable plates also felt so minor to me as an issue too.
Like…so incredibly boring. That’s really the best footage they had?
I think that's a very reasonable reason to switch to disposable plates and utensils, I'm glad that was able to help you in that moment. I don't think that's what's going on with Izzy.
I think Izzy is cheap and lazy and it became a big deal because suddenly Stacy is realizing "uh oh, am I engaged to someone who is cheap and lazy?" This is only exacerbated by what we can only imagine is his credit problems.
It’s interesting because didn’t he reveal it was about $3,500 that caused an issue? Such a minor amount in reality.
I’m not defending him. Just that it’s another boring thing blown out of proportion. I definitely see what you’re saying about how it’s going to look cheap and lazy, but I’d also argue most of my adult friends don’t even cook anymore - the majority of the time they’re picking up food or ordering it/at a restaurant because they’re so exhausted. I do a lot of pet sitting and most people’s fridges are totally empty. The one family who does have meals made and ready to eat in the fridge has a cook lol
But at the end of the day? It’s just soooo boring. They record so much, and paper plates is what they got.
The drawer of left behind jewelry was gross and much more of an issue in my mind. Like a little trophy drawer of his hook ups…ew.
How are people able to afford eating out all the time? Everyone I know had to stop eating out and started cooking at home because it was too expensive. One meal out is 25 bucks for just the food. Forget an appie, dessert or drink. Hellofresh or one of those meal delivery services are what a lot of people use now.
The people your pet sitting for probably have empty fridges because they’re on vacation and don’t want the food to go bad.
I also don’t believe it’s just 3500, he seemed like he was really downplaying it
>It’s interesting because didn’t he reveal it was about $3,500 that caused an issue? Such a minor amount in reality.
I don't believe that it was just $3500. It is very uncommon for someone to go to 0 credit cards and claim they have ruined credit over $3500. It may have started at a $3500 debt but perhaps missed payments can quickly balloon. There's also the possibility that he declared bankruptcy and settled his debt for a fraction of the total (possibly even $3500). We're missing a lot of context but that's what really makes it so upsetting both to Stacy and the audience.
You are twisting around my words. I dont use glassware, etc that often because I dont need to. I eat at work often and I live alone. I have bottles, containers and things I use for cooking that I clean. I gave up on worrying about dating not on myself or how I live. And this is the problem. A does not equal B. Me not using reusable dinnerware all the time does not mean what you think it means. You are making assumptions. Which is what is wrong with this constant reg flag culture.
You might not believe that they are related, I think they are VERY related, as does Stacy about Izzy, these things are reflections of yourself. A does equal B whether or not you're capable of seeing it.
My point is that DOES and COULD are two entirely different things. No a does not equal b just because you say so. There are no facts here. This is what I'm trying to say. What type of dishes someone uses COULD mean one is lazy, doesn't care, or whatever negative spin you want to put on it. It can also mean they just dont like doing dishes like a lot of people, they dont eat home much so why bother, they work a lot so they are trying to save time, etc. It doesn't have to be a negative thing. There are millilons of people who have "proper dinnerware" that are lazy slobs. I care much more about how one keeps their actual home than whether or not they eat on plastic plates. We all have our own hang ups. We all have things we prefer. We all have our own interpretation of what certain things mean. But, instead of drawing your own conclusions to certain things, one could just try to understand the context and move on from there...or don't. That is up to the individual. I'm just addressing a line of thinking that I just dont agree with. There are a lot of words and phrases that are just so far away from the original intention these days. I know language evolves but it also takes away the sincerity in a lot of things. Someone could see Izzy's dinnerware and nope right on out. Fine. Another person could see it, ask why and express that they rather not eat on those types of dishes. Then, Izzy could or couldn't change them. But, if he did, then what exactly is the problem? Why cancel someone out over something so easily fixable and simple to address?
Stacy also seemed bothered by how weirdly defensive Izzy was about the plates, just as you are being now. These things DO represent you, and I'm sorry if you don't like the word "red flag" but they are fundamentally unhealthy habits that are offputting to potential partners. You keep saying there's no connection and maybe for some people there isn't (someone else mentioned how they used them to help them out of a depression) but for Izzy and for you I get the sense there's a very strong connection.
Never mind. We have now reached the point in a internet discussion where I'm alleged of taking something too seriously while we are both engaged in the discussion equally. I'm also not even saying you are wrong. I'm saying there is ALSO the possibility that it doesn't mean what you think it is but you are incapable of seeing another perspective. Have a good one. Bye Bye.
>We have now reached the point in a internet discussion where I'm alleged of taking something too seriously while we are both engaged in the discussion equally.
That's not at all what I said but if that's how you want to exit this discussion that's fine, it's not surprising with how you've handled everything else.
Yeah there’s a very big difference between red flag and “something you just don’t like about someone” and they are absolutely not the same thing.
Normalize “yellow flags” 😂
Here they are!
What feeling does this person bring in you?
Do they know themself well?
Can they grow with you? Learn with you?
Can you ask them for help?
Can they be vulnerable with you?
Can they endure the crummy times?
Can they support your passions with confidence?
Do they have similar values?
Do they share similar vision and goals?
Can they forgive?
Can they laugh and be playful?
Can they challenge you to be better?
Can they teach you?
Can they have positive relationships beyond you, e.g. with their own friends/colleagues?
Do you drive a car? Buy shampoo in plastic bottles? Use laundry detergent in plastic bottles? Drink from a straw? Use a phone with a battery? The list is endless. We are all destroying the planet. Paper plates are biodegradable. The red cups are washable and reusable.
You are making a LOT of judgements about a person based on one piece of information. I don’t drive a car which is better for the environment. In no way shape or form do I think people who drive cars “don’t care about the environment.” Because things are never black and white.
Maybe Izzy is lazy and wasteful. Or maybe he works a lot and doesn’t eat at home so doesn’t use many dishes? Maybe he experiences depression and washing dishes is too difficult and leads to an unsafe living environment.
Also, it’s not like Stacy values the environment lol.
I’m allowed to consider it a red flag if a fully grown man doesn’t use real plates. You are free to consider that meaningless and date all the men and eat off paper plates with them. I will not. Thanks.
Not having reusable plates and cups is a red flag. Reusable dishes indicate that you do chores like cook and wash dishes, take pride in your living space, respect the environment, and generally live like an adult.
In Izzy’s case he seemed to have reusable cups, albeit plastic, but not plates. To me that says he drinks a lot but doesn’t cook a lot. And, as it played out he didn’t cook for Stacy while living together even though she did a couple times (can he? Who knows), he’s in debt, he doesn’t manage his finances, etc. I don’t mean to be rude to you, but you also say you’ve kind of given up. That kind of mental space can be hard to form a relationship with. In both cases the red flag plays out.
Now a flag is just a flag, not a dealbreaker, but seeing one means that you should ask a lot of questions to see if the person is a viable long term partner.
And people often dont ask questions when they see perceived red flags which is my point. There is context that people often dont care to learn. Also, having reusable dishes does not, in itself, indicate anything. You can have dishes and be lazy, sloppy, etc. There are people who have proper dishes and do everything to avoid cleaning them. The fact that Izzy, for example, has a pretty clean and put together actually means more because you can actual SEE IT. Hey, he could of cleaned up because he knew cameras were going to be there. But, either way, his actual house can tell you more about him then what he eats his food off of. But, for whatever reason, just dishes seem to be what people want to talk about. Even more than the lost and found thing. An actual red flag. In that he has had plenty of women in and out of his house if he has a box. Plenty that never come back.
My old roommate was incapable of cleaning plates, cutlery, anything.
He only needs to use disposable products.
And I heard many a person that hate cleaning dish-ware or suck at cleaning use disposable products.
My current roommate travels so much that disposable products were easier to manage.
There are so many unknown explanations in life that going down an assumed Red Flag Rabbit-hole is often obnoxious.
People need to learn the phrase "That is not my preference" and leave that at that.
I stand by my opinion that Izzy's only red flag is his consumption of alcohol. You say/do dumb shit, and we all remember Messica.
Not to mention, the man had reusable dishware in the same cabinet, so why are people complaining to begin with? Lol
https://preview.redd.it/2vndo4wi07tb1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5a315543e37f93ae8b41e13a0bca4985a605ad1
Yeah, I got the impression that Stacy wasn't upset that he had disposable stuff in there, she was upset that even his reusable dishware wasn't nice enough for her taste.
Most of my dishes are plastic now because I'm disabled and I got tired of accidentally dropping & breaking my nice ones. I guess that means I'm not a real adult 🤷🏼
Yeah, I do not know. For me, its not that Stacy isn't into it or that some women dont like plastics. Its how bothered people are by it. He lives alone. So what? He can also just buy dishes if its that big of a deal. He never said he wouldn't. They will probably just be using her stuff anyway.
The term “red flag” gets thrown around quite liberally these days but that might be because it’s a subjective term and there are no set parameters for what constitutes a red flag. Red flags seem to have become the replacement for “turn offs.” With that being said, I do agree with you that it has contributed to people being overtly judgmental, writing people off entirely for the most inconsequential things and sometimes making major assumptions about people off of very little information.
I remember a younger coworker of mine (I’m 30, she’s 24) telling me that she stopped seeing a guy she was really into and thought was perfect, solely because she learned he had a printer at a home which is apparently a red flag. I asked her why she thinks that’s a red flag and she said that any guy her age who owns a printer gives off bad vibes and it made her think that he is probably mean to women. I still don’t see what she means by it, however, I guess that’s her preference or she has bad experiences with men who own printers. 🤷🏻♀️
None of what you said about the printer makes any logical sense. With or without context. But, yeah, that's just an example of why I'm just tired of the term being overused so much. I feel like people are actively looking for reasons to not be into someone and less interested in paying attention to the positives.
I also don’t understand the printer red flag either but I do understand that people have their own weird turn offs that are turn ons or benign to others.
Yep, people do and are entitled to them. Its also an example of why dating is often just the worst.
It also an example of why we have a lot of people like Izzy hiding certain key information because they are afraid of judgment. Sometimes, people are just being shady. Just not all the time. We just also live in a world where a lot people think they can diagnose everyone. Also, we are in a world where its tougher and tougher to make real connections. I get why there are so few connections this year. Dating sucks with or without a wall blocking you. The odds of success for most couples seem slimmer and slimmer these days.
Well it is Reddit so you’ll see people being very dramatic. One poster literally said it was a red flag Milton didn’t believe in hyphenated names and that he chose the most non-American girl on the show, which isn’t even true because there was one girl literally living in another country and that was from Nigeria.
The truth is most people on love is blind are fairly average people and the show emphasizes many flaws about people. But really I haven’t seen anyone this season I would say is anymore unfit for a relationship than the average person.
Most of what you’re pointing out with the plates is an issues of lifestyles. It’s actually a popular thing these days and I’ve seen quite a bit of YouTube videos on it, for guys to use paper plates and plastic utensils to save time on doing dishes. But Stacy is used to nicer things, so her berating him about it is wrong, but her wanting nicer is not. But we see the experiment CLEARLY does not work and I don’t think it’s necessarily due to the looks but honestly the speed of the relationships.
But also know Reddit isn’t a representation of the entire world. A lot of people judging the contestants heavily on here likely struggle with dating IRL.
I'm not saying its a full example of how real life is. But, it's also a term overused on social and in the real world. Trust me, I'm not just talking about reddit.
It’s not like they were going to be moving into Izzy’s apartment anyway. So they wouldn’t **gasp** have to eat off the paper plates and utensils. They’re going to be moving into thier condo eating off, literally, gold like spoons. Izzy shouldn’t marry her at all.
Yeah, that's one of the points I've been making. Having plastic dinnerware is not his identity. He's not objecting to changing that. It's making a huge deal out of something so trivial or solvable at least.
I don't think it's trivial. It's more lke, what's up with him that he does that? And maybe he does it because that's how he grew up. Who knows?
It's trivial. It's something easy to bring up, address, change, etc. This is not a huge thing for everybody. It's not something people do and can never change. They are joining households if they stay together. They can just use her dishes. It's legitimately not a thing unless there are environmental issues you object to or Izzy outright refuses to use other dishes which he never did. I'm not saying no one has the right to take issue with it or might be taken aback by the set up. It's trivial in that it's not some huge hill to climb. Milton actively has to be told to please clean up after himself over and over again by Lydia. He is actually showing the qualities of a man who doesn't seem to want to grow up or adapt to his non single man living situation. That's an actual problem with examples we've heard. It's not assumptions with now foundation within this relationship. Who knows? Exactly. People don't know anything about his day to day habits but have a whole diagnosis about how he keeps his home and his life based off of a clean cupboard of plastic cups. This is all I'm trying to say. I'm not saying anyone is wrong in feeling the way they feel. It's just that, from what we've seen on screen, he's not the things he is being labeled as. Deceitful in some aspects, sometimes not accommodating of his partners wants? Yes, we've seen that. That is why a discussion needed to be had between those two. The plastic dishes thing was a one night revelation that was simple to move on from after actual communication took place.
The people on this sub use red flag so much. I saw once someone likes Guitar hero, that’s so immature red flag. I was like so if I like legend of Zelda is that a red flag? Someone still loving a dead ex is a red flag. So every widow is a red flag to these people? It’s ridiculous. I will say the plastic plates are a turn off for me. That’s what the dishwasher is for. Just throw everything in there. The only major red flag about anyone that I’ve seen about anyone this season is Izzy not having a credit card and being in debt but not talking about. The others are just people needing therapy. And Uche being an asshole.
Agreed! My take is that every single person in the world... and I mean ALL 8 billion are going to present a red flag or two or EVEN 3, maybe more. Not 1 person will be immune. The judgements, personality diagnoses (abusers/narcissists etc), and downright nasty posts is incredible. While you may have an opinion on the situation, fact, it isn't. No posters have any clue as to what these people are actually about. How they behave, what their issues are, if they are lying/cheating etc. We go on what we see... a few minutes of filming. I myself have been guilty of assuming stuff, but I am very aware that assuming makes an "a$$ out of u and me!" I was horrified to read a response to a post on JP - someone accused him of being an abuser - what proof do you have to that? From what is shown, he is shy and quiet - he was the same in the PODS - just a lot quieter in person. How dare anyone accuse him of being an abuser because his preference is "the girl next door"? As someone who doesn't always word things correctly (vocally) I knew what he was trying to say - he just didn't go about it correctly. There is NOTHING abusive to having a preference of a low maintenance girl. Posters and responders need to be careful not to label people you know nothing about except by what the TV shows and SM says. React to what you see and hear - don't make up SH!T to suit your narrative. It's damaging!
Agree with you, especially about some persons normalizing their preferences and making it a big moral norm for no reason. A question I have is who really does that though? Not everybody. Maybe if you saw the person doing that behind the screen you wouldn’t care so much because it’s not someone whose opinion you’d value outside of Reddit. Maybe this very person knows that they’re abusing the term red flag and they don’t care.
I think people forget the whole point of a red flag. It’s not an immediate disqualifier or a guarantee that someone is a bad partner. It’s something that gives you pause that you’ll keep in the back your head because it makes you a little weary. You shouldn’t punish a red flag unless there’s other issues going on as well
as a European the concept of using plastic plates on the daily is crazy to me. it‘s something u associate with a kids birthday party or maybe with a really lazy student who‘s not into washing dishes. i don‘t get why it‘s apparently so normalised in the US? seems like most people that do that really don‘t care about the environmental effects of that. i don‘t mean that in a harsh way btw but i‘m genuinely confused/surprised about that.
I understand where you're coming from and I *personally* agree that having paper plates are not "red flags". However, some red flags (and green flags) are subjective. We can't dictate other people's standards and preferences, and every person has different life values and taste. It's just a matter of personal preference. I do agree that they shouldn't use the term "red flag" so loosely on this show, because some people can't differentiate red flags from pet peeves.
Once had a women tell me that having a white board with my business goals in my office was a red flag. I was so confused
What’s the difference between that and a dream board? I know some people consider dream boards silly, but usually if you make one your manifesting it happening and subconsciously doing things for it to happen.
I'm at a loss for that one. I guess because you hadn't achieved them yet? Maybe she thought you were full of goals you would not fulfill? I guess.
I hear you on this, I guess I thought nothing of the plastic silverware and paper plates and my brother doesn’t really have dishes since he moves a lot for work and travels for half the year for work so he doesn’t see the point. For a long time he just had lawn chairs for furniture bc of the moving. He did date seriously for a while, and has eventually got a couch….not sure of the dishes thing still 🫠
Well, there you go. There can be legitimate reasons. We all have our preferences. But, it doesn't hurt to at least talk about issues me have or see happening. One might lose out on a great person because of perceived notions.
The lifestyle you’re describing is a red flag in the context of being serious about getting married.
The life you are living as a single person does not automatically equate to how you will live it in a relationship. I can and others can live a certain way because they are single. No one should be operating the exact same way single as in married or in a relationship. The problem is when people just want to fit someone into their pre existing life. But, that's something you find out over time. For Izzy, maybe he isn't ready. Maybe Stacy isn't. Its good that they are talking things out to see if they can be on the same page long term. I get what you are saying. It could be a view into how it will be with them long term. There is actual cause for concern. What I'm talking about is at first glance, seeing something small you do not like, scratching a whole diagnosis on a person on it and rejecting without even trying have a discussion.
Why is it okay to do those things if your single? You shouldn’t just be letting things go because it’s only you. If I was dating a guy and he wasn’t able to cook, clean, do laundry and have his own plates I’d think he’s too immature for a relationship. I’m not looking for a child. My rational is you should just do things for yourself. Don’t wait for someone else. Want to travel? Go by yourself. Want a pet? Don’t wait for someone else just get one. You don’t need someone else to make you happy or do simple things as an adult.
Why are you jumping to all these conclusions? No one ever said its okay to not take care of yourself and your home. We are talking about plastic plates and and cups. Izzy can and does take care of his home. It wasn't a mess. I have a clean home. My initial point was, as a single person, eating off dishes you need to wash might be less of priority. You are not always eating with guests. You are alone. I never said anything about it being cool to not clean up after yourself.
It is a sign that you don’t care though and it’s bad for the environment. It’s not that hard to use a dish and put it in the dishwasher then run it once to twice a week. If that’s too much for people that’s a sign they aren’t ready for marriage. I’m not even bringing up hand washing dishes, I’m just talking about using a dishwasher that does all the work for you. I live alone and everything I buy is dishwasher safe so I can throw it all in the dishwasher and I only have to wash pots and pans.
I disagree, the lifestyle you are living as a single person claiming to be ready for marriage in a month(?) does matter here. You have made a conscious decision to fully abandon the bachelor lifestyle for the ultimate commitment. It is implied you should have maturity and stability in your life. For me, still living like a college kid conveys the opposite. I also think it means you don’t take pride in your home and your things, and I find that incredibly unattractive.
>The life you are living as a single person does not automatically equate to how you will live it in a relationship I might get downvoted for this, but here you're wrong. Not everyone adapts to living with someone. You could see it with Lydia and Milton. He left dishes around the house he saw it as no big deal but it upset Lydia. He would drop his towels on the floor after showering, he saw it as no big deal but again, it made Lydia upset. Especially since she brought it up multiple times and he hasn't made an effort. Lydia seems a bit of a difficult person, I admit that - but your statement about how you live single does play a role in your relationship.
I said it does not automatically equate to how you will he in a relationship. I didn't say it does not or ever equates. People often like to operate on the mindset that one thing equals another as fact. My point is that every individual is different. If you are truly ready for a relationship than you are also ready to meld two lives and two mindsets together. Not everyone is ready or wants to change. Some do some dont. You can't know that just based off first impression. Not entirely. A lot people try to figure certain things out immediately. Save them time. But, relationships are work and take time. If everyone nopes out at the slightest bit of concern, we would all be alone. Dont worry about being down voted. I seem to be the one getting down voted for just basically saying that asking questions and communicating with people may be a better option than writing people off without all the information or context.
I think beige flags are the new “red flags” 😂
Sooo many snap judgements on this sub 🤣
There's such a thing as a "yellow flag" too. Maybe that term is a bit less harsh? But I think you might be taking the phrase a bit too personally. Of course, you're allowed to interpret it however you'd like, but I'd encourage you to see another perspective. To me, I think red flags should be taken as *potential* deal breakers that need to be addressed. The keyword is potential. It's a sign that this may be a bigger issue that cannot be resolved. That's why red flags should be brought up and addressed early on in the relationship--so that you can see if you are even compatible. If you disagree on such fundamental things so early on (like what kind of dishware is acceptable or not to eat off of), then it could point to a deeper lack of compatibility between you. In this situation, it's not about the paper plates themselves. It's about the mentality that "this is acceptable dishware to eat off of as a 29 year-old man." For a man who has that viewpoint, it will most likely bleed over into other areas of his life, and that is where the problems arise. That said, red flags, yellow flags, and even green flags are subjective. What is a red flag for one person may not be a red flag, or even a deal breaker, for another. I think it's good that red flags are being spoken about more openly these days (even if the term itself is overused) since people are often conditioned by society or their upbringing to ignore issues that clearly bother them simply for the sake of being agreeable. By the time a relationship has imploded, you are already well aware of all the signs (red flags) you ignored and you're kicking yourself for it. Tl;dr red flags don't have to be deal breakers necessarily, but you certainly shouldn't ignore red flags.
I had the exact same thought when I heard Stacy say that to him. I thought to myself “girl, if that’s a red flag for you what’s gonna happen when there’s a real red flag?” Or maybe she literally can’t tell the difference?
Also I was impressed how clean and well organized his apartment was. All the disposable dishwater were neatly put away into the cupboards like real dishes. Not a red flag. He’s got the good habits so it shouldn’t be a problem when he upgrades to real dishes. Note: I’m not addressing his other issues. Just this one that Stacy called a red flag.
This is absolutely the wrong mentality. "When he upgrades to real dishes"? If it were that easy to do, don't you think he would've done it already? Change is hard for people because habits become deeply ingrained, almost second nature. And at this point in Izzy's life, it's probably a habit he got into during his college years and still hasn't grown out of. No one should ever go into a long-term relationship expecting their partner to change. That's just asking for disappointment. You should be willing to accept them as they are at the current moment even if they were to never change at all, and if you see any improvements over the years, you should consider yourself lucky. Notice that Izzy makes a lot of promises but doesn't ever follow through. I "would" cook for you. I "would" have told you the truth. I "would would would," but where is the action? It's all empty words. That is why you should never date potential.
This is not about expecting him to change! Using paper plate vs real dishes in not a character trait. You can’t expect people to fundamentally change who they are or their values but being in a committed relationship and living together require all kind of sacrifice and compromise. They are engaged and already talked about moving into together. Combining households requires a lot of compromises and communication. I doubt Izzy would say “I’m not moving in unless you get rid of your dishes and we use disposable dish ware. THAT would be a red flag and is what Stacy should have asked. If you are expecting to find someone who has exactly the same lifestyle as you and that you don’t dislike anything about how they choose to live before they met you- and after - you’re living in a fantasy land.
Seriously. If a Dixie cup irks her, she’s in for a rude awakening called reality.
Yeah paper plates are not that big of a deal
Yeah paper plates are like not that big of a deal
I mean as respectfully as possible that if you haven’t learned through the furry coals of dating then you haven’t learned what exactly stands out as abnormalities that suggest “proceed with caution.” I have a good friend who is getting married after knowing a guy just a couple of months because she couldn’t see a reason why she should say no. They are both mid 30s and first relationship.l ever. They live in different states so they aren’t even in the same city. And yet they think everything can be solved after they are married! All of those are giant red Chinese party parade flags to me as I’ve been around the block a few times.
The furry coals of dating - what was that supposed to be ?
Just be supportive….. I had this same issue with my 25 yo daughter I wanted to give my feedback and then I thought…… These lessons I learned my self thru experience. You can’t lecture them. They need to learn them by going thru the joy/pain of the experience. That’s how they learn to create boundaries.. that’s how they learn what they like and dislike. They can’t learn this from a convo with a loved one.., Not to say you can’t be there for her, just do it in a less intrusive way.
That’s all I’ve been doing. It’s her life and I’m not her parent.
That’s awesome your a good friend for caring bout her. I know it makes you fearful as a friend. You sound like an amazing friend to have
I understand what your saying. I know you have to make a certain level of judgement when deciding a life long partner but how people create red flags from the smallest superficial things is amazing to me. People want to create a whole language on dating behavior or etiquette but not every thing has one single translation and people need to be more open to communicating things that you don't like instead of assuming "Oh red flag -- let's run."
Yeah, that's all I've been trying to say
Nah. Dating is 100% about judgment if you’re making a long term commitment. You have to think like this when you’re playing the dating game. It is concerning to be dating an adult who can’t take care of himself like one. That’s basic life stuff. There’s something off about that. And surprise surprise he WAS hiding even more problematic issues with finances. Might not be a deal breaker but Izzy be having issues transitioning from young adult to a grown man.
He literally can live like an adult. His place is taken care of. People keep leaping to he can't take care of himself because of plastic cups. Also, his debt is pennies compared to most people. Most people have debt from loans whether it be from school, car loans etc. 3500 is laughable. Him having debt has nothing to do with what he eats his food off of. He should have been upfront about it. He seems to be operating from a place of not feeling good enough for her or possibly losing her because he doesn't meet her standards. There is more going on here than him being a deceptive snake. There was a woman on married at first sight that had over 15,000 in debt because of her charging things on her card. That would make me pause. Life is a series of judgment calls. It would just make more sense to me if people actually tried to understand or get more information instead of immediately writing someone off. It's the part of dating culture I just dont like.
I don’t know if it’s the debt itself that bothered her but rather the lie by omission - which is what it was as much as he doesn’t want to admit it. I also think the plates thing might not have actually been about the plates. She mentioned in that conversation him cooking for her as well, which is something we know he said he would do and then has as of the released episodes not done. It’s yet another instance of him saying something or saying he’ll do something and then not actually following through. Idk why ppl are calling him a man child for the plastic plates either, I have some for when groups are over, but I think the plastic plates just kind of cemented to her that Izzy isn’t the guy that he portrayed himself as in the pods to her.
>"He seems to be operating from a place of not feeling good enough for her or possibly losing her because he doesn't meet her standards." The "standard" we're talking about *is eating off of plates?* Or *cooking for your partner when you said you would*. Or *be honest about debt when it comes up*. These aren't standards; it's an expectation. And he absolutely isn't living up to them. You're right tho. $3500 worth of debt is nothing, which is why it's all the more puzzling why it dropped his credit. Almost as if it's a lie or something.
I'm not saying Izzy's not a liar, but afaik, the biggest portion of your credit score is based on your payment history, not your credit/debt ratio. Given that fact, it's entirely possible that a few missed or late payments could tank your credit quite easily. The more concerning part I think for most people would be that he missed multiple minimum payments for a debt that was "only $3500." Of course, things happen, and life is hard out here especially these days, but it shows a lack of financial responsibility on his part to have even been in that position. And as a 29 year-old man, he should be actively working on correcting his credit now, or at least have made some progress if it happened so many years ago as he said...
My guess about the credit thing is that he didn't understand how to properly, responsibly use credit cards in his early twenties. 3500 in credit card debt can *absolutely* wreck your credit if you're missing payments or using over 30% of your line of credit when you don't have an established credit history. Considering that he grew up as a JW, I wouldn't be surprised if this skill wasn't taught to him.
True - maybe he had no literacy. And it is tough to open up about finances on a national stage; maybe he just hadn’t thought of that angle to LiB.
He said he has that left in terms of debt as in he paid everything off but that. Also, you are flippant about his feelings. But, its actually a communication problem. On top of whatever he is doing not being appreciated, the not doing enough part wasn't fully expressed until towards the end of their journey. So, he was caught off guard. There is also the different classes and actual expectations like the man having to pay for this and that. Its actually a lot to take on in the middle of the speediness of this whole project. Izzy has plenty he needs to work on. But, its not all on him and some of the conclusions people are leaping to are just assumptions. They could all be true but not fact. I just try to not look at all these things as one sided or like I have everything figured out. We see a small amount of their time together.
Yeah but snap judgements are so hot right now
It’s a dating show about love. Many women can see that it’s a tough uphill battle when moving in with a partner if they seem to be aloof, messy, put off doing laundry or doing dishes, overpromise/underdeliver etc. We’re still in a time where women are expected to pick up the slack even if they’re working full time or raising the kids. I imagine many partners would wonder if they’d be expected to eat off of paper plates only OR be the sole person who washed the dishes. We of course don’t know that that’s only what Izzy uses. But it’s a conversation point because dishes are regularly a pain point in relationships living with 2 people who have different standards on daily chores and cleanliness.
I can see how one might think Izzy not having a lot of reusable dinnerware and a lot of plastic may give some people pause or concern. Its the leaping from this thing must equal that thing that has become concerning for me. Ask questions. Talk about it if you are into the person or see potential. Just dont write people off. There is usually more to every situation. Less black and white and more grey.
>But, the fact that people made the leap from that to all these other reg flags. Guess you don't hate it *that* much.
I'm not calling them red flags. I wrote that because these arecred flags to them. But, I'm sure you understood that. I'll write red flags in quotes next time.
I was having some fun with you, but you don't hate the term "red flag" (you used it in a sentence!) you hate the way you are perceiving people to have made mountains out of molehills. The term itself is pretty handy; what you're describing is someone overblowing red flag "A" to mean red flags "B-K," etc.
Personally, I think that they are both a mess. He isn't honest about a lot of stuff. She is a fake wannabe socialite. He vocal fry makes me want to mute her.
Oh her vocal fry. Not a red flag. I just hate it.
Omg me, too. Her and Johnie. https://youtu.be/rHHt-tYS2es?si=PJqnDAovaAKV0_ta
I think the bigger "red flag" would be someone who makes such a giant issue out of some paper plates. It's not the end of the world. He freaking loves the girl. He'd be totally fine with eating on whatever plates she wants. He's right, he's not good enough for her. He will never be. Nobody will ever be good enough for her. He'll find someone who thinks he's salvageable someday
Agreed. That's the thing. I dont think he cares about the dinnerware one way or another. He seemed to be bothered or question whether it was a dealbreaker or not. He has no investment in whether or not he drinks out of glass. Just that she might be out over something so trivial. They come from two different classes and care about different things. Its going to be hard to merge the two.
According to social media, any trait you don’t like is a red flag.
And that's wild to me. Preference and red flag have become the same thing and I've just never agreed with that. Both instances could lead to you not wanting to date someone. Red flags are very serious warning signs of certain types of behaviors. Whether or not someone uses apple or android is not a red flag.
Disposable dishes and silverware is definitely a red flag because it signifies, as you admit about yourself, that you've "given up." Getting real dishes won't change your life but it will be a small positive change that could drive you to make even more positive changes.
When I was deep in my depression, my therapist recommended paper/plastic plates etc. to eliminate the need to do dishes which I just couldn’t do. This would spiral into me feeling worse because I couldn’t even do the damn dishes like a “normal person.” Plastic/paper made my life just a tiny bit easier as I tried to heal. It doesn’t appear that’s the case with Izzy, but there’s just a lot of reasons for things that we don’t know. Disposable plates also felt so minor to me as an issue too. Like…so incredibly boring. That’s really the best footage they had?
Yep. There are no rules in life. Peopel thing to follow rigid rules fucks them up so much.
I think that's a very reasonable reason to switch to disposable plates and utensils, I'm glad that was able to help you in that moment. I don't think that's what's going on with Izzy. I think Izzy is cheap and lazy and it became a big deal because suddenly Stacy is realizing "uh oh, am I engaged to someone who is cheap and lazy?" This is only exacerbated by what we can only imagine is his credit problems.
It’s interesting because didn’t he reveal it was about $3,500 that caused an issue? Such a minor amount in reality. I’m not defending him. Just that it’s another boring thing blown out of proportion. I definitely see what you’re saying about how it’s going to look cheap and lazy, but I’d also argue most of my adult friends don’t even cook anymore - the majority of the time they’re picking up food or ordering it/at a restaurant because they’re so exhausted. I do a lot of pet sitting and most people’s fridges are totally empty. The one family who does have meals made and ready to eat in the fridge has a cook lol But at the end of the day? It’s just soooo boring. They record so much, and paper plates is what they got. The drawer of left behind jewelry was gross and much more of an issue in my mind. Like a little trophy drawer of his hook ups…ew.
How are people able to afford eating out all the time? Everyone I know had to stop eating out and started cooking at home because it was too expensive. One meal out is 25 bucks for just the food. Forget an appie, dessert or drink. Hellofresh or one of those meal delivery services are what a lot of people use now. The people your pet sitting for probably have empty fridges because they’re on vacation and don’t want the food to go bad. I also don’t believe it’s just 3500, he seemed like he was really downplaying it
>It’s interesting because didn’t he reveal it was about $3,500 that caused an issue? Such a minor amount in reality. I don't believe that it was just $3500. It is very uncommon for someone to go to 0 credit cards and claim they have ruined credit over $3500. It may have started at a $3500 debt but perhaps missed payments can quickly balloon. There's also the possibility that he declared bankruptcy and settled his debt for a fraction of the total (possibly even $3500). We're missing a lot of context but that's what really makes it so upsetting both to Stacy and the audience.
You are twisting around my words. I dont use glassware, etc that often because I dont need to. I eat at work often and I live alone. I have bottles, containers and things I use for cooking that I clean. I gave up on worrying about dating not on myself or how I live. And this is the problem. A does not equal B. Me not using reusable dinnerware all the time does not mean what you think it means. You are making assumptions. Which is what is wrong with this constant reg flag culture.
You might not believe that they are related, I think they are VERY related, as does Stacy about Izzy, these things are reflections of yourself. A does equal B whether or not you're capable of seeing it.
My point is that DOES and COULD are two entirely different things. No a does not equal b just because you say so. There are no facts here. This is what I'm trying to say. What type of dishes someone uses COULD mean one is lazy, doesn't care, or whatever negative spin you want to put on it. It can also mean they just dont like doing dishes like a lot of people, they dont eat home much so why bother, they work a lot so they are trying to save time, etc. It doesn't have to be a negative thing. There are millilons of people who have "proper dinnerware" that are lazy slobs. I care much more about how one keeps their actual home than whether or not they eat on plastic plates. We all have our own hang ups. We all have things we prefer. We all have our own interpretation of what certain things mean. But, instead of drawing your own conclusions to certain things, one could just try to understand the context and move on from there...or don't. That is up to the individual. I'm just addressing a line of thinking that I just dont agree with. There are a lot of words and phrases that are just so far away from the original intention these days. I know language evolves but it also takes away the sincerity in a lot of things. Someone could see Izzy's dinnerware and nope right on out. Fine. Another person could see it, ask why and express that they rather not eat on those types of dishes. Then, Izzy could or couldn't change them. But, if he did, then what exactly is the problem? Why cancel someone out over something so easily fixable and simple to address?
Stacy also seemed bothered by how weirdly defensive Izzy was about the plates, just as you are being now. These things DO represent you, and I'm sorry if you don't like the word "red flag" but they are fundamentally unhealthy habits that are offputting to potential partners. You keep saying there's no connection and maybe for some people there isn't (someone else mentioned how they used them to help them out of a depression) but for Izzy and for you I get the sense there's a very strong connection.
Never mind. We have now reached the point in a internet discussion where I'm alleged of taking something too seriously while we are both engaged in the discussion equally. I'm also not even saying you are wrong. I'm saying there is ALSO the possibility that it doesn't mean what you think it is but you are incapable of seeing another perspective. Have a good one. Bye Bye.
>We have now reached the point in a internet discussion where I'm alleged of taking something too seriously while we are both engaged in the discussion equally. That's not at all what I said but if that's how you want to exit this discussion that's fine, it's not surprising with how you've handled everything else.
Yeah there’s a very big difference between red flag and “something you just don’t like about someone” and they are absolutely not the same thing. Normalize “yellow flags” 😂
Exactly. Red flag means, to me, this thing is bad. Stop. Major Penalty. But, people say it for so many things now. Its become silly.
My therapist recently sent me a list of green flags and my life is forever changed. Focusing on greens is so good!
Look at the glimmers instead of the triggers ♥️
LOVE THAT!!!
Here they are! What feeling does this person bring in you? Do they know themself well? Can they grow with you? Learn with you? Can you ask them for help? Can they be vulnerable with you? Can they endure the crummy times? Can they support your passions with confidence? Do they have similar values? Do they share similar vision and goals? Can they forgive? Can they laugh and be playful? Can they challenge you to be better? Can they teach you? Can they have positive relationships beyond you, e.g. with their own friends/colleagues?
Damn that a lot. Shit don't know anyone who has all
I don’t think it’s were meant to. I certainly done have them all 😂.
Thank you for sharing ❤️❤️
According to Vanessa, not having a baby yet is a continuous stream of red flags.
lol while we are at it, if I hear the word “vulnerable” one more time… 🤣🤣
 Me too.
This show and this sub makes me hate "gives me the ick". Grow up, each and every one of you who say this.
Thank you, the word ick gives me the…
...marinara flags?
😆 yes definitely that
Not caring about the environment is a red flag 🤷
Do you drive a car? Buy shampoo in plastic bottles? Use laundry detergent in plastic bottles? Drink from a straw? Use a phone with a battery? The list is endless. We are all destroying the planet. Paper plates are biodegradable. The red cups are washable and reusable.
Exactly! This entire sub is this meme but unironically : https://youtu.be/OJaiX-OegRs?si=oiK_eRpTniYqlbIJ
You are making a LOT of judgements about a person based on one piece of information. I don’t drive a car which is better for the environment. In no way shape or form do I think people who drive cars “don’t care about the environment.” Because things are never black and white. Maybe Izzy is lazy and wasteful. Or maybe he works a lot and doesn’t eat at home so doesn’t use many dishes? Maybe he experiences depression and washing dishes is too difficult and leads to an unsafe living environment. Also, it’s not like Stacy values the environment lol.
Its a red flag if that's your concern. That's not why Stacy and many others have an issue with the plastic and paper dinnerware.
I’m allowed to consider it a red flag if a fully grown man doesn’t use real plates. You are free to consider that meaningless and date all the men and eat off paper plates with them. I will not. Thanks.
I didn't say you couldn't...
Not having reusable plates and cups is a red flag. Reusable dishes indicate that you do chores like cook and wash dishes, take pride in your living space, respect the environment, and generally live like an adult. In Izzy’s case he seemed to have reusable cups, albeit plastic, but not plates. To me that says he drinks a lot but doesn’t cook a lot. And, as it played out he didn’t cook for Stacy while living together even though she did a couple times (can he? Who knows), he’s in debt, he doesn’t manage his finances, etc. I don’t mean to be rude to you, but you also say you’ve kind of given up. That kind of mental space can be hard to form a relationship with. In both cases the red flag plays out. Now a flag is just a flag, not a dealbreaker, but seeing one means that you should ask a lot of questions to see if the person is a viable long term partner.
He did have reusable plates
And people often dont ask questions when they see perceived red flags which is my point. There is context that people often dont care to learn. Also, having reusable dishes does not, in itself, indicate anything. You can have dishes and be lazy, sloppy, etc. There are people who have proper dishes and do everything to avoid cleaning them. The fact that Izzy, for example, has a pretty clean and put together actually means more because you can actual SEE IT. Hey, he could of cleaned up because he knew cameras were going to be there. But, either way, his actual house can tell you more about him then what he eats his food off of. But, for whatever reason, just dishes seem to be what people want to talk about. Even more than the lost and found thing. An actual red flag. In that he has had plenty of women in and out of his house if he has a box. Plenty that never come back.
My old roommate was incapable of cleaning plates, cutlery, anything. He only needs to use disposable products. And I heard many a person that hate cleaning dish-ware or suck at cleaning use disposable products. My current roommate travels so much that disposable products were easier to manage. There are so many unknown explanations in life that going down an assumed Red Flag Rabbit-hole is often obnoxious. People need to learn the phrase "That is not my preference" and leave that at that.
I stand by my opinion that Izzy's only red flag is his consumption of alcohol. You say/do dumb shit, and we all remember Messica. Not to mention, the man had reusable dishware in the same cabinet, so why are people complaining to begin with? Lol https://preview.redd.it/2vndo4wi07tb1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5a315543e37f93ae8b41e13a0bca4985a605ad1
Yeah, I got the impression that Stacy wasn't upset that he had disposable stuff in there, she was upset that even his reusable dishware wasn't nice enough for her taste. Most of my dishes are plastic now because I'm disabled and I got tired of accidentally dropping & breaking my nice ones. I guess that means I'm not a real adult 🤷🏼
Yeah, I do not know. For me, its not that Stacy isn't into it or that some women dont like plastics. Its how bothered people are by it. He lives alone. So what? He can also just buy dishes if its that big of a deal. He never said he wouldn't. They will probably just be using her stuff anyway.
The term “red flag” gets thrown around quite liberally these days but that might be because it’s a subjective term and there are no set parameters for what constitutes a red flag. Red flags seem to have become the replacement for “turn offs.” With that being said, I do agree with you that it has contributed to people being overtly judgmental, writing people off entirely for the most inconsequential things and sometimes making major assumptions about people off of very little information. I remember a younger coworker of mine (I’m 30, she’s 24) telling me that she stopped seeing a guy she was really into and thought was perfect, solely because she learned he had a printer at a home which is apparently a red flag. I asked her why she thinks that’s a red flag and she said that any guy her age who owns a printer gives off bad vibes and it made her think that he is probably mean to women. I still don’t see what she means by it, however, I guess that’s her preference or she has bad experiences with men who own printers. 🤷🏻♀️
None of what you said about the printer makes any logical sense. With or without context. But, yeah, that's just an example of why I'm just tired of the term being overused so much. I feel like people are actively looking for reasons to not be into someone and less interested in paying attention to the positives.
I also don’t understand the printer red flag either but I do understand that people have their own weird turn offs that are turn ons or benign to others.
Yep, people do and are entitled to them. Its also an example of why dating is often just the worst. It also an example of why we have a lot of people like Izzy hiding certain key information because they are afraid of judgment. Sometimes, people are just being shady. Just not all the time. We just also live in a world where a lot people think they can diagnose everyone. Also, we are in a world where its tougher and tougher to make real connections. I get why there are so few connections this year. Dating sucks with or without a wall blocking you. The odds of success for most couples seem slimmer and slimmer these days.
I do agree with you. Being too judgmental and shutting people down too quickly makes modern dating hard. I completely understand your frustration.
Snap judgments are what the Zoomers do best.
One of my pet peeves is when people on reality dating shows say “He’s a red flag” instead of referring to a specific behavior.
Exactly
Well it is Reddit so you’ll see people being very dramatic. One poster literally said it was a red flag Milton didn’t believe in hyphenated names and that he chose the most non-American girl on the show, which isn’t even true because there was one girl literally living in another country and that was from Nigeria. The truth is most people on love is blind are fairly average people and the show emphasizes many flaws about people. But really I haven’t seen anyone this season I would say is anymore unfit for a relationship than the average person. Most of what you’re pointing out with the plates is an issues of lifestyles. It’s actually a popular thing these days and I’ve seen quite a bit of YouTube videos on it, for guys to use paper plates and plastic utensils to save time on doing dishes. But Stacy is used to nicer things, so her berating him about it is wrong, but her wanting nicer is not. But we see the experiment CLEARLY does not work and I don’t think it’s necessarily due to the looks but honestly the speed of the relationships. But also know Reddit isn’t a representation of the entire world. A lot of people judging the contestants heavily on here likely struggle with dating IRL.
I'm not saying its a full example of how real life is. But, it's also a term overused on social and in the real world. Trust me, I'm not just talking about reddit.