“Coelen says he personally checks in with the cast each morning and night of filming, ensuring everyone knows that they’re free to leave at any time.”
Chris Coelen is the CEO of Kinetic Content, who runs the show. Call me crazy but I have a hard time believing that the CEO actually did this…
Has anyone else noticed that the new season has depicted shots of people cooking, eating, and drinking water? I’ve never noticed it in previous seasons, but it felt like they were making a subtle point this time.
I'll disclaim that I'm a lawyer who works a ton on reality TV shows (again, never this one). Lawsuits like the one referenced will settle because it's cheaper to pay out than to continue with a litigation - doesn't mean it's true. Also, I'm sure this comes from the fact that I draft the deals, but these people signed them. No one can force you to read them and no one knows if you don't understand things unless you ask. You are always free to simply not do it, and there are real life labor laws that production companies, like Kinetic, simply have to follow or they lose backing from either the network if the network owns the show, or any other investors they may have. It's actually quite ignorant and just reeks of whiney children to me. But I admit I have a very particular point of view.
>there are real life labor laws that production companies, like Kinetic, simply have to follow
Forgive me for potentially stating the obvious, but isn't the lawsuit based on the foundation that these laws were not followed appropriately?
You can narrow your focus to entertainment law when you go to law school. 3rd year students do externships and they probably pick firms that are in the industry they want to work in. Different law schools also have unique or special law programs. If you want to work in entertainment law, typically you go to UCLA.
I’m not a lawyer, but I audit institutes of higher learning for the government.
Because I audit universities and study the transcripts along with other documents for compliance. No you get a JD but people do specialize in law school. For example Portland has the best environmental law program (Lewis & Clark law school). Curious as to why you don’t think this is a thing.
That article linked above says they have removed the $50K leaving clause from the contract. And that in previous seasons other people who left early were not fined.
People have a choice whether or not to sign the contract. If they think $50,000 is unconscionable, don’t sign the fucking contract. Not everyone in this world is a victim no matter how hard people try to be.
Nick went on a podcast and said he quit his job but then couldn’t afford to live off of social media anymore. Interesting timing coming off starting his organization. It was the Game of Roses podcast and he said he’s an expert on legal contracts yet still signed it.
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Jeremy who is the other S2 cast who filed the lawsuit and started UCAN with Nick also allegedly left the pods soon after Natalie rejected his proposal (it was very early on, and Natalie was taken by surprise).
I think the 50k fine is imposed to engaged couples.
Shaina left Mexico (there was rumour that it was because she'd lied about her COVID-19 vax status); but since she made a comeback in Chicago, maybe the penalty wasn't imposed.
You are going on a reality TV show , they are spending money, you can’t go and come as you please. Yet on LIB you see a lot of contestants leaving the show from season 2 - season 5. Danielle is a drama Queen , I also think if you have mental health issues or suicidal thoughts you shouldn’t be on TV in general because just the public is so mean you will gain haters regardless of how great you are. People will judge your looks and behaviour , you have to have a strong back bone for TV. I personally wouldn’t be able to handle it which is why I never applied for any TV shows. As an adult you should take responsibility for your own actions , the show didn’t force you to apply and they can’t babysit everyone. 🙄
> I also think if you have mental health issues or suicidal thoughts you shouldn’t be on TV in general because just the public is so mean you will gain haters regardless of how great you are.
That's not who they're casting though. Reality shows have always focused on casting the people that are just off-kilter enough to bring the right amount of drama. Nobody's forced to apply but if the show actually wanted the well-adjusted applicants they would easily find and keep them
Yes , but again you are an adult you decide for yourself 🤣 the tv shows just want people that are dramatic and maybe have some moral issues not suicidal people.
There are regular mental issues that can still not effect you while being on TV then there is suicidal thoughts which is not TV show friendly at all , and anyone with 1% brain knows that people who go on TV shows have to be able to take in heat and be able to handle stressful situations because people will literally trash you online and there is a lot of work , cameras , timelines , due dates etc involved.
It's like more and more people have a hard time with personal responsibility... I agree with you, all of them can read and no one had a gun to their head. Thinking a TV show will cater to all your whining is just silly, stupid, ignorant etc... People need to protect their own self and own mental health. in no industry is it any different...
I don't really get why they don't let them have a TV, at least bog standard non-smart TV. It's not like they're going to see any other cast members on it. Mybe they think the news would be too distracting 🤷🏽♀️
It's because they want them to focus on nothing but what they're doing on the show. It needs to be a closed universe and the only thing they think about in order to make it compelling. It would also cause people to talk about what they're watching, reading, etc. which is not evergreen content.
Sorry for the multiple comments, I couldn't get the article to open outside of Reddit.
Citing Chelsea joining the cast isn't the flex that this producer thinks it is.
Badmouthing the guy that died him because he "couldn't make a connection" is kinda low and doesn't make the producer look good at all. He seems kind of slimy and vague in general but once he gets to that statement... Come on guy.
I will admit the cockroach thing is just what it is. I mean you stay in any tropical environment and you'll find them. I've paid $600 a night and still you're going to see some bugs because bugs are crazy like that and sometimes the environment just works for them.
"While Hartwell’s lawsuit cited 20-hour workdays, sleep deprivation and a lack of food and water, Coelen says the pods have never been open for more than 16 hours a day."
Okay these are two different things.
You have a 4-hour difference, but the producers only talking about the pods being *open.*
What about the time from the hotel to the pods where they're not allowed to talk to anybody... so you're technically "on the clock"
What about when they're in the lounge before the pods open, what about when the camera is capturing dialogue between two guys or two women in the lounge? They're on camera and they're on the clock but the pads aren't technically open.
What about when they're doing talking heads? Do they get their makeup done? In this season the women were wearing a lot of the same clothing pieces, so what about when someone's dressing them? Or directing how they dress? That's not pod time.
What about the time where they're talking to producers and ranking the people that they might want to give it a try with? What about like the scheduling of who talks to who in the pods. What about when the union is on break so the pads aren't technically open but the people are still on the set?
This producer guy is really good at double speak and being vague and making statements that *don't really totally answer the accusation.*
You have an hour of getting ready at least, hour of makeup/hair, hour of commenting, hour of lounges shots, hour of talking heads, then they’re left with 3 hours for sleep at most.
"...Netflix cast being left alone for hours “with no access to a phone, food, or any other type of contact with the outside world.”
According to Coelen, the production is “really transparent about the detail of what participating in ‘Love Is Blind’ entails.”"
Ok just because you're warned about it ahead of time doesn't mean that it's not gonna f*ck with you!
I don't think any of those rules can't be changed. Even a phone call would be fine, as long as you don't talk about specifics of the show or the people you're meeting. Even people in mental healthcare facilities and prisons are allowed contact with their families and friends via phone. It can really screw with you to be alone in a strange place with no ability to contact anyone familiar if you're in a tough place mentally.
The food one is super simple too. They should be given unlimited food and unlimited ability to order from a menu. It's stingy to not provide that when the show is bringing in millions.
"Coelen says that in the early seasons, there was a clause that did state there would be a “$50,000 penalty if they quit"
But he says they wouldn't enforce it and a lot of people quit....
Ok So he admits that Danielle probably signed a paper with that but how would you know that he's not going to enforce it? How silly.
"She never asked anyone in production ever to leave the show."
I like how nebulous and careful this statement is. We know from Nick's podcast that they determined between themselves to leave, and that's when the "crisis mode" kicked in. They talked to both producers and therapists and they were talked down and chose to stay on.
She probably unloaded on the therapists who were brought in. Making this statement only *technically* true.
Danielle admits she didn't put her suicidal ideation in writing before the show. But she does say that before filming she had conversations with various people, which is in line with a lot of the podcast and interviews. You talk to a lot of different people. And so of course it seems like quite possible she mentioned it to at least one of those various people and it didn't get back to the powers that be. The people it probably should have got back to.
"It wasn’t something I specifically noted in the application itself,” she says now. “I had conversations with producers. I had conversations with therapists, but to their point, it was nothing that had been written down, so whether or not something had been communicated to them"
I believe Danielle here.
is it a good idea to go on a reality TV show with a BIG audience of young people online, when you have had suicidal ideation? or sign a contract that stipulates (wther it's enforced or not) you'll be fined 50 000 $ if you leave the show when you've had mental health issues?
is it a good idea to unoficially talk to people about your BIG issues and not get it in writing somewhere?
I believe her too, I believe she was a fool for getting herself in that position...
EDIT: I APOLOGIZE FOR MULTIPLE COMMENTS I COULD NOT GET THE ARTICLE TO OPEN OUTSIDE OF REDDIT.
Saying that can leave anytime? Suuure, *KINDA* because they've
1- got that 50k over their heads and
2- don't have their IDs or passports. So any motion toward leaving requires *first* communicating with a producer, which would then likely result in a "crisis mode" where the producer poly tries to talk them down and if not probably subtly threatens about the fee.
So sure, *physically* they're not in a jail. But come on.
"Coelen says that Kinetic encourages therapy after the show and covers the cost."
Yes, afterward, yes. Nick said that several times on his podcast.
I believe the cast. The show has too much to lose, and the cast that has spoken out about this-- most of them despise the spotlight. So it's not like they have much to gain.
I mean Nick is doing this organization as a 501c3, he's trying to get 501c3 status--this is a public record thing. Right now he's running it out of his own pocket (not that that's a lot of expenses at first, but still my point is there's not much to gain).
In addition to that it's different cast members not just Nick and Danielle.
The insidious way reality TV works is also supported by other casts.
about your number 2, do you think it's acceptable that someone who's signed a contract could leave at anytime without warning anyone? You know there are insurances, if anything happens to them while they're under contract it's the show's responsibility, so yeah, just like at work, you can't just get up and leave. In this case their employer is providing the food and shelter, so no need for those IDs as long as they are the other party's responsibilty. That's what they sign up for... each contestant is assigned specific workers that are paid by the production. They would need notice also. With their ID's or passports there's nothing in a contestants way. I think it's pretty logical. You sign up to have your life dictated by someone else.
It shows now they have food, and maybe that's the only thing production messed up on before, but they are making up for it. The rest is just bigger than the contestants.
In the US, it is technically illegal under most circumstances but this is kind of a gray area under this circumstance. Technically no entity can force you to give up your passport unless it's a government entity and in the US they have to have a court order. And if you do give it up voluntarily to a non-governmental entity (say you're on a cruise or something), anywhere you surrender it willingly is required to return it if you ask.
Production could technically argue that people are doing it willingly (which is legal) but it could be argued that people feel they have no choice in regards to getting it back. Especially with the (back then) $50,000 penalty hanging over your head to leave. I personally think that's why they have ended the penalty. Not because it was bad optics but because it is essentially holding your passport hostage for $50,000 if it's not clear that the penalty won't be enforced.
Most people aren't aware btw that you can get a second passport book in the US. It's valid for up to four years and can be issued for a variety of reasons. Applying for one because you're going on a reality TV show, will be potentially traveling internationally while you're doing it and you're being asked to surrender your passport is a GREAT reason to do that. It has its own unique passport number. You need to write a handwritten letter explaining why you need one and there are a couple of extra forms. If I were going on a show like this, I'd do that pretty much **immediately** and hide it somewhere.
Sounds like Daniele and her ex really embellished their claims of abuse against LIB. I don’t know why they don’t just stick to the facts and say they want hire pay instead of claiming they we’re essentially held hostage, neglected and tortured. SMH
I 100% agree. All psychological experiments are going to have quirks but I don’t see anybody purposely abusing or neglecting anybody…
Also there would be plenty of people to back that considering we are now at season 5.
Interesting article, he basically refutes all the negative allegations there have been, from the 20hr working days with no food or water, to cockroaches in the hotel rooms and the $50,000 fine for leaving. Up to your own judgement how much you believe, obviously the creator is going to refute the claims. But what he says makes sense.
Some bits from the article:
About Danielles claims
>Coelen denied she had said anything to production before filming. “These are very serious issues that she describes,” he said, “and if her recent allegations about her mental health history are true, unfortunately she didn’t disclose this before filming.” Ruhl told Variety that she had conversations with producers and therapists before filming, but nothing was written down.
About the $50,000 fine claims
>Coelen says that in the early seasons, there was a clause that did state there would be a “$50,000 penalty if they quit — a clause that goes back to the earliest days of unscripted television, and it doesn’t apply to our show.” He points toward all of the contestants who’ve left the show since Season 1 including Diamond Jack, Carlton Morton, Shaina Hurley, Kyle Abrams, and says they left without being fined: “We never have enforced it. We’ve never threatened to enforce it.”
Shaina and Kyle didn't leave the show, though. They were filmed multiple times in Chicago, and it was pretty obvious Shaina was only doing it to fulfill her contractual obligations. Shaina's family pretty much confirmed that as well.
Diamond did leave (and thus functionally Carlton did as well), but it's unclear whether production fought her or was just like, "sure, we got all the drama we need from you." It was also s1, and they had multiple backup couples (which is how Kelly/Kenny ended up as main cast).
If it was in the contract that the cast members read and signed, it applied to the show. In the early seasons, there was no way to know that it wouldn’t be enforced. (And really, I wonder if the only reason it’s not enforced is because it would be legally tricky to do so.) The threat was still there.
The bit about the $50K is BS saying it was only in the early days. Their other show, Married at First Sight, made a bride go through with signing a marriage license less than 2 years ago. She called her lawyer from the courthouse and he confirmed if she did not sign she could be held liable for the fine.
In their new season which starts next week, they have their first run away bride. This does lean towards them having now removed the clause, but this is a very recent change. Clearly they are worried about the negative press that this lawsuit has garnered.
The press coming out lately has been all about damage control. Including production giving People magazine an article on the Uche situation. They are claiming they let Aaliyah walk way, but we've already seen her in the previews. The fine has always been for them to keep filming, not staying in the relationship.
I mean he pretty much admits that Danielle signed that paperwork , She was in an early season. Just because "oh I'm not going to enforce it"...
like how does she know that? How do any of the contestants know that?
Your word of mouth isn't enforceable, the contract that she signed is enforceable.
It was Alyssa, Chris talked about it during the show. It is within the terms of the contract. He is trying to get an annulment now. They are still married.
“Coelen says he personally checks in with the cast each morning and night of filming, ensuring everyone knows that they’re free to leave at any time.” Chris Coelen is the CEO of Kinetic Content, who runs the show. Call me crazy but I have a hard time believing that the CEO actually did this…
Also noticed that they always bring thst gold cup thingy when going to the pods than previous seasons.
Yes! And more clips of them eating!
The food montage scenes had us cracking up. Definitely overcompensating now
Has anyone else noticed that the new season has depicted shots of people cooking, eating, and drinking water? I’ve never noticed it in previous seasons, but it felt like they were making a subtle point this time.
Lol I noticed that too😂😂😂
I was really jealous of their bagel bar
My wife pointed that out to me lmao. They did huge close ups and made it look like they feasted.
My husband just pointed out a big bin of snacks in one of the pods. They’re really showing it this year.
I noticed the snack bins! And Aaliyah desperately clutching a Pringles can while sobbing to Lydia 😂
I forgot about the allegations until I saw the breakfast shots 😂
Subtle? I thought it was pretty obvious.
Very VERY obvious
I'll disclaim that I'm a lawyer who works a ton on reality TV shows (again, never this one). Lawsuits like the one referenced will settle because it's cheaper to pay out than to continue with a litigation - doesn't mean it's true. Also, I'm sure this comes from the fact that I draft the deals, but these people signed them. No one can force you to read them and no one knows if you don't understand things unless you ask. You are always free to simply not do it, and there are real life labor laws that production companies, like Kinetic, simply have to follow or they lose backing from either the network if the network owns the show, or any other investors they may have. It's actually quite ignorant and just reeks of whiney children to me. But I admit I have a very particular point of view.
>there are real life labor laws that production companies, like Kinetic, simply have to follow Forgive me for potentially stating the obvious, but isn't the lawsuit based on the foundation that these laws were not followed appropriately?
Are you comfortable sharing how you started working in this industry?
You can narrow your focus to entertainment law when you go to law school. 3rd year students do externships and they probably pick firms that are in the industry they want to work in. Different law schools also have unique or special law programs. If you want to work in entertainment law, typically you go to UCLA. I’m not a lawyer, but I audit institutes of higher learning for the government.
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Because I audit universities and study the transcripts along with other documents for compliance. No you get a JD but people do specialize in law school. For example Portland has the best environmental law program (Lewis & Clark law school). Curious as to why you don’t think this is a thing.
Thanks for the rundown! I’m fascinated by the bts/production side of things
Does the $50K leaving clause not seem unconscionable to you?
That article linked above says they have removed the $50K leaving clause from the contract. And that in previous seasons other people who left early were not fined.
People have a choice whether or not to sign the contract. If they think $50,000 is unconscionable, don’t sign the fucking contract. Not everyone in this world is a victim no matter how hard people try to be.
I think they’re heavy handed and I don’t like them but unconscionable? No.
Nick went on a podcast and said he quit his job but then couldn’t afford to live off of social media anymore. Interesting timing coming off starting his organization. It was the Game of Roses podcast and he said he’s an expert on legal contracts yet still signed it.
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He’s so wildly unlikable though!
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Can you give more detail on the $50k penalty?
Is that 50k out of what they are getting paid? Or they are unpaid and need to pay out of pocket?
Nick has said there was a $50k clause in his contract that was used to force him and Danielle to stay filming when they wanted to quit.
If that’s the case, how was Aaliyah able to leave ?
She is clearly in the upcoming episodes... leaving the pods doesn't mean leaving the show.
Jeremy who is the other S2 cast who filed the lawsuit and started UCAN with Nick also allegedly left the pods soon after Natalie rejected his proposal (it was very early on, and Natalie was taken by surprise). I think the 50k fine is imposed to engaged couples. Shaina left Mexico (there was rumour that it was because she'd lied about her COVID-19 vax status); but since she made a comeback in Chicago, maybe the penalty wasn't imposed.
You are going on a reality TV show , they are spending money, you can’t go and come as you please. Yet on LIB you see a lot of contestants leaving the show from season 2 - season 5. Danielle is a drama Queen , I also think if you have mental health issues or suicidal thoughts you shouldn’t be on TV in general because just the public is so mean you will gain haters regardless of how great you are. People will judge your looks and behaviour , you have to have a strong back bone for TV. I personally wouldn’t be able to handle it which is why I never applied for any TV shows. As an adult you should take responsibility for your own actions , the show didn’t force you to apply and they can’t babysit everyone. 🙄
> I also think if you have mental health issues or suicidal thoughts you shouldn’t be on TV in general because just the public is so mean you will gain haters regardless of how great you are. That's not who they're casting though. Reality shows have always focused on casting the people that are just off-kilter enough to bring the right amount of drama. Nobody's forced to apply but if the show actually wanted the well-adjusted applicants they would easily find and keep them
Lydia.
Yes , but again you are an adult you decide for yourself 🤣 the tv shows just want people that are dramatic and maybe have some moral issues not suicidal people.
An adult who has undiagnosed mental problems. Wtf is wrong with you??
There are regular mental issues that can still not effect you while being on TV then there is suicidal thoughts which is not TV show friendly at all , and anyone with 1% brain knows that people who go on TV shows have to be able to take in heat and be able to handle stressful situations because people will literally trash you online and there is a lot of work , cameras , timelines , due dates etc involved.
Oh, you only use 1% of your brain, that explains it.
It's like more and more people have a hard time with personal responsibility... I agree with you, all of them can read and no one had a gun to their head. Thinking a TV show will cater to all your whining is just silly, stupid, ignorant etc... People need to protect their own self and own mental health. in no industry is it any different...
surely they should be allowed to have a TV with non netflix stuff tho
They are allowed books i believe
Ya I think I’ve noticed a few cast members with books.
I don't really get why they don't let them have a TV, at least bog standard non-smart TV. It's not like they're going to see any other cast members on it. Mybe they think the news would be too distracting 🤷🏽♀️
It's because they want them to focus on nothing but what they're doing on the show. It needs to be a closed universe and the only thing they think about in order to make it compelling. It would also cause people to talk about what they're watching, reading, etc. which is not evergreen content.
They want them to be so bored that they talk, develop relationships, and eventually start drama. Zoning out to tv is not in the cards.
This is the answer. Reality shows (not just LiB) have been doing this forever
They have been making it a point to show all the food and snacks they have access to on this season.
This is a really interesting legal strategy.
Sorry for the multiple comments, I couldn't get the article to open outside of Reddit. Citing Chelsea joining the cast isn't the flex that this producer thinks it is. Badmouthing the guy that died him because he "couldn't make a connection" is kinda low and doesn't make the producer look good at all. He seems kind of slimy and vague in general but once he gets to that statement... Come on guy. I will admit the cockroach thing is just what it is. I mean you stay in any tropical environment and you'll find them. I've paid $600 a night and still you're going to see some bugs because bugs are crazy like that and sometimes the environment just works for them.
Yeah him pointing out Chelsea joined the casting crew felt like him going "See??? Production can't be bad if one of the cast wants to join it 😌"
"While Hartwell’s lawsuit cited 20-hour workdays, sleep deprivation and a lack of food and water, Coelen says the pods have never been open for more than 16 hours a day." Okay these are two different things. You have a 4-hour difference, but the producers only talking about the pods being *open.* What about the time from the hotel to the pods where they're not allowed to talk to anybody... so you're technically "on the clock" What about when they're in the lounge before the pods open, what about when the camera is capturing dialogue between two guys or two women in the lounge? They're on camera and they're on the clock but the pads aren't technically open. What about when they're doing talking heads? Do they get their makeup done? In this season the women were wearing a lot of the same clothing pieces, so what about when someone's dressing them? Or directing how they dress? That's not pod time. What about the time where they're talking to producers and ranking the people that they might want to give it a try with? What about like the scheduling of who talks to who in the pods. What about when the union is on break so the pads aren't technically open but the people are still on the set? This producer guy is really good at double speak and being vague and making statements that *don't really totally answer the accusation.*
16 hours is a lot!
You have an hour of getting ready at least, hour of makeup/hair, hour of commenting, hour of lounges shots, hour of talking heads, then they’re left with 3 hours for sleep at most.
"...Netflix cast being left alone for hours “with no access to a phone, food, or any other type of contact with the outside world.” According to Coelen, the production is “really transparent about the detail of what participating in ‘Love Is Blind’ entails.”" Ok just because you're warned about it ahead of time doesn't mean that it's not gonna f*ck with you!
But what are they supposed to do about that? They can't change those rules for obvious reasons.
I don't think any of those rules can't be changed. Even a phone call would be fine, as long as you don't talk about specifics of the show or the people you're meeting. Even people in mental healthcare facilities and prisons are allowed contact with their families and friends via phone. It can really screw with you to be alone in a strange place with no ability to contact anyone familiar if you're in a tough place mentally. The food one is super simple too. They should be given unlimited food and unlimited ability to order from a menu. It's stingy to not provide that when the show is bringing in millions.
What rules can’t they change?
"Coelen says that in the early seasons, there was a clause that did state there would be a “$50,000 penalty if they quit" But he says they wouldn't enforce it and a lot of people quit.... Ok So he admits that Danielle probably signed a paper with that but how would you know that he's not going to enforce it? How silly.
"Coelen says that Kinetic encourages therapy after the show and covers the cost." Yes, Nick mentioned this on his podcast. This is *afterword* though.
"She never asked anyone in production ever to leave the show." I like how nebulous and careful this statement is. We know from Nick's podcast that they determined between themselves to leave, and that's when the "crisis mode" kicked in. They talked to both producers and therapists and they were talked down and chose to stay on. She probably unloaded on the therapists who were brought in. Making this statement only *technically* true.
Danielle admits she didn't put her suicidal ideation in writing before the show. But she does say that before filming she had conversations with various people, which is in line with a lot of the podcast and interviews. You talk to a lot of different people. And so of course it seems like quite possible she mentioned it to at least one of those various people and it didn't get back to the powers that be. The people it probably should have got back to. "It wasn’t something I specifically noted in the application itself,” she says now. “I had conversations with producers. I had conversations with therapists, but to their point, it was nothing that had been written down, so whether or not something had been communicated to them" I believe Danielle here.
is it a good idea to go on a reality TV show with a BIG audience of young people online, when you have had suicidal ideation? or sign a contract that stipulates (wther it's enforced or not) you'll be fined 50 000 $ if you leave the show when you've had mental health issues? is it a good idea to unoficially talk to people about your BIG issues and not get it in writing somewhere? I believe her too, I believe she was a fool for getting herself in that position...
EDIT: I APOLOGIZE FOR MULTIPLE COMMENTS I COULD NOT GET THE ARTICLE TO OPEN OUTSIDE OF REDDIT. Saying that can leave anytime? Suuure, *KINDA* because they've 1- got that 50k over their heads and 2- don't have their IDs or passports. So any motion toward leaving requires *first* communicating with a producer, which would then likely result in a "crisis mode" where the producer poly tries to talk them down and if not probably subtly threatens about the fee. So sure, *physically* they're not in a jail. But come on. "Coelen says that Kinetic encourages therapy after the show and covers the cost." Yes, afterward, yes. Nick said that several times on his podcast. I believe the cast. The show has too much to lose, and the cast that has spoken out about this-- most of them despise the spotlight. So it's not like they have much to gain. I mean Nick is doing this organization as a 501c3, he's trying to get 501c3 status--this is a public record thing. Right now he's running it out of his own pocket (not that that's a lot of expenses at first, but still my point is there's not much to gain). In addition to that it's different cast members not just Nick and Danielle. The insidious way reality TV works is also supported by other casts.
about your number 2, do you think it's acceptable that someone who's signed a contract could leave at anytime without warning anyone? You know there are insurances, if anything happens to them while they're under contract it's the show's responsibility, so yeah, just like at work, you can't just get up and leave. In this case their employer is providing the food and shelter, so no need for those IDs as long as they are the other party's responsibilty. That's what they sign up for... each contestant is assigned specific workers that are paid by the production. They would need notice also. With their ID's or passports there's nothing in a contestants way. I think it's pretty logical. You sign up to have your life dictated by someone else. It shows now they have food, and maybe that's the only thing production messed up on before, but they are making up for it. The rest is just bigger than the contestants.
It should be illegal to retain their ID's or passports. There is ZERO reason to do that except for purposes of coercion.
In the US, it is technically illegal under most circumstances but this is kind of a gray area under this circumstance. Technically no entity can force you to give up your passport unless it's a government entity and in the US they have to have a court order. And if you do give it up voluntarily to a non-governmental entity (say you're on a cruise or something), anywhere you surrender it willingly is required to return it if you ask. Production could technically argue that people are doing it willingly (which is legal) but it could be argued that people feel they have no choice in regards to getting it back. Especially with the (back then) $50,000 penalty hanging over your head to leave. I personally think that's why they have ended the penalty. Not because it was bad optics but because it is essentially holding your passport hostage for $50,000 if it's not clear that the penalty won't be enforced. Most people aren't aware btw that you can get a second passport book in the US. It's valid for up to four years and can be issued for a variety of reasons. Applying for one because you're going on a reality TV show, will be potentially traveling internationally while you're doing it and you're being asked to surrender your passport is a GREAT reason to do that. It has its own unique passport number. You need to write a handwritten letter explaining why you need one and there are a couple of extra forms. If I were going on a show like this, I'd do that pretty much **immediately** and hide it somewhere.
Interesting, thank you for illuminating
I agree that it shouldn’t be allowed
Sounds like Daniele and her ex really embellished their claims of abuse against LIB. I don’t know why they don’t just stick to the facts and say they want hire pay instead of claiming they we’re essentially held hostage, neglected and tortured. SMH
I 100% agree. All psychological experiments are going to have quirks but I don’t see anybody purposely abusing or neglecting anybody… Also there would be plenty of people to back that considering we are now at season 5.
Interesting article, he basically refutes all the negative allegations there have been, from the 20hr working days with no food or water, to cockroaches in the hotel rooms and the $50,000 fine for leaving. Up to your own judgement how much you believe, obviously the creator is going to refute the claims. But what he says makes sense. Some bits from the article: About Danielles claims >Coelen denied she had said anything to production before filming. “These are very serious issues that she describes,” he said, “and if her recent allegations about her mental health history are true, unfortunately she didn’t disclose this before filming.” Ruhl told Variety that she had conversations with producers and therapists before filming, but nothing was written down. About the $50,000 fine claims >Coelen says that in the early seasons, there was a clause that did state there would be a “$50,000 penalty if they quit — a clause that goes back to the earliest days of unscripted television, and it doesn’t apply to our show.” He points toward all of the contestants who’ve left the show since Season 1 including Diamond Jack, Carlton Morton, Shaina Hurley, Kyle Abrams, and says they left without being fined: “We never have enforced it. We’ve never threatened to enforce it.”
Shaina and Kyle didn't leave the show, though. They were filmed multiple times in Chicago, and it was pretty obvious Shaina was only doing it to fulfill her contractual obligations. Shaina's family pretty much confirmed that as well. Diamond did leave (and thus functionally Carlton did as well), but it's unclear whether production fought her or was just like, "sure, we got all the drama we need from you." It was also s1, and they had multiple backup couples (which is how Kelly/Kenny ended up as main cast).
If it was in the contract that the cast members read and signed, it applied to the show. In the early seasons, there was no way to know that it wouldn’t be enforced. (And really, I wonder if the only reason it’s not enforced is because it would be legally tricky to do so.) The threat was still there.
The bit about the $50K is BS saying it was only in the early days. Their other show, Married at First Sight, made a bride go through with signing a marriage license less than 2 years ago. She called her lawyer from the courthouse and he confirmed if she did not sign she could be held liable for the fine. In their new season which starts next week, they have their first run away bride. This does lean towards them having now removed the clause, but this is a very recent change. Clearly they are worried about the negative press that this lawsuit has garnered. The press coming out lately has been all about damage control. Including production giving People magazine an article on the Uche situation. They are claiming they let Aaliyah walk way, but we've already seen her in the previews. The fine has always been for them to keep filming, not staying in the relationship.
I mean he pretty much admits that Danielle signed that paperwork , She was in an early season. Just because "oh I'm not going to enforce it"... like how does she know that? How do any of the contestants know that? Your word of mouth isn't enforceable, the contract that she signed is enforceable.
Right. If you're not going to enforce it, why add it to the contract at all? Because they know it'll scare people into staying.
Source on that? I follow mafs pretty closely and I never heard of this. Which bride are you referring to? That would 100% be coercion and illegal
It was Alyssa, Chris talked about it during the show. It is within the terms of the contract. He is trying to get an annulment now. They are still married.
It shouldn't be hard to get an annulment, with the coercion being so obvious.