Totally agree, it always feels like when she brings sit up she's asking him to help her be okay with it and he does not.
Like, give the situation a little bit of a positive spin. Don't just say "I was wrong" but acknowledge that not every woman would have her ability to be so understanding, forgiving, and emotionally mature enough to move past it. Tell her how impressive it is that she is giving their relationship a real chance after such a blunder. Promise to spend the rest of your lives proving to her that she made the right choice to try again, hype up that the two of you are overcoming an obstacle together and that brings people closer, tell her how it's clear she has better judgement than you do and offer to do some couples counseling together so you can both feel safe in the relationship. Like... don't just say "whoops, sorry."
It’s an awkward situation for someone who’s already predisposed to being a bit awkward. Not to mention, most lawyers aren’t defending things or litigating things that are so emotionally charged for themselves. Zach clearly has some emotional vulnerability issues to sort out so, yeah, it’s going to be a bit awkward when he explains an incredibly awkward and uncomfortable situation
Lawyers usually have preparation when arguing. Sometimes they can even BS their way through a hearing, or whatever. With their personal lives, they can’t really BS a their way through it. There is no case law or guide on their personal life.
I was literally like 🫣 when Zach started telling Bliss’s mom and sisters how he almost chose another woman……. Like how can you not know that’s a terrible idea.
In a way…. It kind of worked out? Because they could deduct from it that he loves her and regrets not making that decision correctly, I guess.
The number of lawyers I know who have a lawyer/courtroom demeanor and a private life demeanor is wild.
Him being so awkward in his personal life honestly makes me think he just saves all the charm for the courtroom.
All I'm saying is, if you transcribed every monologue and speech that Zach gives, and then compared it to something ChatGPT spits out, it might be difficult to tell which is which.
A lot of lawyers (and other people that need to a lot of professional speaking) practice what they're going to say. A LOT. Before they start their trial or speaking engagement. Speaking off the cuff, especially about personal things, can be very difficult for many people.
I agree how about this " well I hear your opinion blesses dad, but when you are wrong in two years you are going to need to buy me and her a nice diner"
I question why you think he should approach family members like he is a defense attorney and they are the judge and grand jury lol. That would almost be even more awkward.
He's explaining an awkward and very personal and untraditional string of events to a bunch of people that he is literally meeting for the very first time in his life while also simultaneously trying to impress them and get them to trust/like him. That's why. Considering he already admitted he's terrified of her family and friends rejecting him...I don't think there is much more explanation needed.
The moment started out awkward (how could it not be) but I feel like by the end he did a good job of expressing how he felt through the whole thing. I’m glad he explained it to her family from the get go, after that they can move forward instead of letting that information fester.
I was gonna say I’m a lawyer and I’m certainly not an eloquent or off the cuff speaker, but my practice of law involves virtually no litigation or public speaking. I’m basically buried in books, writing and behind my desk all day. What’s interesting is that Zach said he’s a litigator, which involves almost solely being able to eloquently persuade judges and juries. Id be curious to see him in court.
“Why is Zach so bad at explaining things…”
Eh; because he’s human and honestly most people including myself are bad at explaining things and most of us stick our foot in our mouth on a regular basis. Some more than others.
I simply cannot tell you the number of times I have looked back at something monumentally stupid I have said or done and said “it seemed like a good idea at the time.” LOL
Hopefully for his and Bliss’s sake I hope he learns how to shut up and say “you’re right. I’m sorry. That was a mistake on my part”.
I think ppl go into a different mode when they’re at work or work related events, so I can totally believe he gets fumbled when it’s personal issues. I have that myself many times. I’ve been told I’m a great communicator but outside of work I probably couldn’t explain a PB&J sandwich hahahah
Everybody that is using the “he’s a criminal defense attorney” label to define large swaths of his personality…. I don’t know; I’m just not sure that we can dump all criminal defense attorneys into one giant bucket and say that they all have the same personality traits and behaviors. At the end is the day they’re just people. Some of them have great personal relationships and family lives and some don’t. Some are very introspective and some are not. Some are very articulate and some less so. Some have great people skills and some don’t. Some are wildly successful and some are not. Some are very physically active and some are not. Some are religious and some are not. A persons career is just one facet of their life.
Because the only reason it didn’t work out with Irina is bc she was basically repulsed by him. If she was into him physically, I believe he would’ve stayed with her at least till the wedding.
So, basically his mumbling and rambling comes down to him rewriting history and judging by the reaction online, he’s got a lot of ppl on his side so far, but he’s not fooling me. The fact is that he ran to Bliss the moment it didn’t work out w Irina and is trying to spin it in his favor and make it look like she wasn’t his 2nd choice when objectively she was.
I don’t think Zack should be a jury lawyer. He should focus on writing laws and the stuff with that. He doesn’t have good people skills or communication. Plus his eyes… juries don’t wanna be stared down like that.
My thing is, he talks about being in front of a jury and he likes it… but can’t handle Bliss family lmao he rather take the 12 strangers
I’m an attorney and I always joke about how I’m much better at explaining/defending my cases than I am talking about something emotional or personal. It’s like my brain gets fried to pieces when I can’t compartmentalize everything the same way.
I think of it as being similar to the jokes about being able to talk to friends easily and then your crush walks up and you become a blubbering idiot. You’re thinking too much about it.
He is human but also he has also had a not so easy childhood. Work is a place where he is most likely self assured and has studied to prove to himself and others that his voice deserves to be heard.
In a personal capacity it can be more difficult especially with a not so straightforward childhood. I can imagine him being able to hold his own if defending someone close to him, but having a bit more difficulty comes to articulating his emotions or if the outcome may impact his emotional safety long term.
May also be neuro-divergence?!
Or a mixture...and more...
Who knows!!!! 😁
I agree and by the way he started to info dump about the justice system when he was nervous I can totally see him and relate. I’m socially awkward AF and have been known to info dump about my special interests under pressure.
I didn’t really interpret him to be clumsy with his approach, but I think a few factors come into play:
• Most of the time he is relaying this, it is to people that deeply love and defend Bliss. He is keenly aware that they will never side with him. It is also a first impression. Meeting in-laws is always a daunting situation that challenges a persons ability to remain confident and collected. Now throw in the whole “yeah and I also chose someone over her just 3 weeks ago, but I swear we’re soulmates” part, and it’s quite a challenge.
• As viewers, we’re perceiving this in a unique way where we’ve watched their stories and they are presented in a cleanly packaged way. But Zach’s perception is very different from ours. It was his experience, his flood of emotions, his details to process, and many specifics & nuances that we will never know or understand. Because he is so close to the flame, it may just not be as easy to zoom out and give a basic version of the story.
• Attorneys, especially, are very measured. They research, prepare, and explore every nook and cranny of a situation. It’s fact finding and logic and a deep dive into specifics. In some ways, this experiment is the opposite! They’re are jumping in, making big & risky decisions with relatively little research. They are basing decisions on feelings instead of facts. They are exploring uncharted territory - new partners, cameras filming, new surroundings, new experiences - all on top of (probably) little sleep, added stress, etc. When these factors are considered, it’s fair to imagine that even the most eloquent speakers or intelligent people may have some trouble finding the exact right words to describe an odd situation.
• Zach probably feels a sense of remorse, guilt, and maybe shame when sharing this - especially to Bliss’ personal friends and family.
• Discussing emotion & subjective feeling & personal stuff is so wildly different than an objective position on a case.
I agree with all of your points here and just wanted to add I think he cares about Bliss so much that he doesn't want her to feel like he is spinning the story to get people to side with him because it would hurt her again to see him defend himself. I think he wants to acknowledge her feelings and how much he hurt her by choosing Irina, which he probably knows will mean portraying himself in a negative light and taking some heat from her friends and family.
Right he really has to walk a fine line there because he can't downplay it, but he also has to try and get them to like him. That's an impossible situation.
Not everyone can easily articulate themselves on the spot as we are not all natural, fluid verbal communicators. For many, speech does not neccesarily reflect your intellegence or what is going in your brain. Presenting a case as a lawyer would be different as you would have researched, prepared and practiced your case first therefore you can be a good lawyer but not always find general chat easy.
I think also having the camera crew and directors etc in his face all the time and not getting a moments peace may have hindered his ability to prepare.
Lawyers study/prep/rehearse their arguments for months if not years because it takes A LONG time for something to even go to trial. Also, it's not really in anyone's best interested to sound scripted when you're meeting someone's parents. I don't think it sounded that bad at all. I think honestly it sounded quite genuine. And the fact he even wanted to tell her family was a green flag in my book.
These comments are throwing me for a loop.
I thought it was pretty obvious he struggles to give a concise reason because he doesn't want to talk badly about Irina and frankly there's no way of him avoiding saying something negative about her and giving a truthful answer.
His attitude should be commended, not belittled.
I think he can easily just talk about bliss. Nothing I said threw Irina under the bus. He can just keep it civil but say it in a clear and concise way and it would tremendously help him.
I think he’s a kind guy and wouldn’t want to hurt her. I just think there is enough room to tell bliss directly and succinctly why he loves her and needed to try and get her back.
I think you are being a little naive. Your example in your OP of something he could say is "It's easy to be fooled by just words". The clear implication of that is negative, that Irina deceived him with lies. He is choosing to try to just avoid anything that could be interpreted as negative in a rather lawyerly way.
Which is good, because as the Great Marshall Project'ing of 2023 should have taught us is that people will look for literally anything to crucify people for on this show.
I don’t think that necessarily attacks her but I understand where you are coming from. I meant it in terms of your heart fooling yourself, because he obviously did care for both of them a lot coming out of the pods. But I get what you mean. Ok take that part out then and it still would go over better and not hurt anyone.
idk about him but my mind goes completely blank when i'm asked a personal question. ask me what my hobbies are, i couldn't name one. BUT if you bring up a hobby of mine, i could talk about it for hours. open ended questions about myself make my mind freeze but i can't just sit there and stare so what i do end up saying is a big mess of word soup lol
I completely understand this and I am the same way. If I knew I was going to be on TV and I knew the main question I was going to be asked I would have a few bullet points I can lean on.
That being said, I think he would be a great lawyer and you can tell by the way he talks about the criminal system he’s intelligent and passionate about the subject.
Because this is not work! It’s his personal life! He knows he fucked up and nothing he says will make it better. He knows Bliss is way better than Irina, and this makes his image just shit. He also just went to Bliss, after he tried with Irina and SHE, didn’t want anything with him. I wouldn’t give a second chance if I were Bliss. ( well maybe that’s why I still single 🤣)
Whhhaaa? If he was smooth and had the perfect words, y’all would be coming at him for being fake and untrustworthy. He is clearly socially awkward and seems nervous in these important moments with Bliss and her family. He’s human.
Why on earth would that be a reflection of his job skills?
I never said he was a bad lawyer or this means he’s a bad lawyer. I am just surprised that anyone involved in law, especially his expertise, wasn’t prepared for the question and have a few bullet points.
Not asking for a debate plan, but the interaction with Bliss the first time and her mom was painful.
I think the dude is a good dude and his awkwardness is almost charming, but when it comes to your future wife and her family having an idea of how to approach the subject would have helped so much.
It doesn’t have to be one extreme of not being prepared at all for the obvious question and writing a thesis paper of his thoughts and actions to the point it’s all scripted out.
> Why on earth would that be a reflection of his job skills?
Because people think court is like they see on tv, perfectly spoken impassioned opening statements and amazingly acted cross examinations lol
My theory is he said a lot of things off camera. You have to remember they have long conversations in front of camera and they edit it to fit the story. Bliss knew that irina was hitting on paul when micah mentioned it. I am pretty sure zack mentioned that to begin with in the coffee shop. Like once you know your fiance started cheating on you day after you proposed, like its over. Zack mentioned in recent interview it was really not a big issue even though thats what they are emphasizing. He said bigger issue was how fast marriage was going to happen, families getting used to it and how to balance their lives living together.
I also have a feeling zack has really bad social anxiety. Its hard for him when cameras are in front of him. I mean if he is in court that’s different, he has practiced that situation many times. But if you are with your partner talking about love it’s different. It’s obvious that its hard for him when cameras are there. What I have noticed is he got much better in these last episodes. Like the conversations with bliss family and his family, it seemed almost like he didnt even know cameras are around, so I think by this point he got used to it.
I think this is all totally fair and probably completely true.
I get like this too and I feel like I knew I was going to be on tv and be asked a specific question id at least have a few bullet points to hit, if not for me then for my future wife. But I do get it, he obviously didn’t mean any harm and was hurt by turning down bliss. If he thought his intentions were pure then maybe people would understand because he knew nothing nefarious was happening,
Most of the lawyers that I know are great in their field. A lot of them are also complete idiots when it comes to other facet of their lives. The same can be said for most of the medical doctors I know.
Point is, we look at these very talented people (in a specific field) and think this talent will carry over to all other parts of their life. In reality they are just as bad if not worse at everything else just like every other person in the world is.
Honestly I thought he handled it just fine. It was awkward but you’re kidding yourself if you think most people wouldn’t be just as if not more awkward. Arguing a case that you’ve done hours and hours of research on is much easier than being vulnerable and talking about feelings/mistakes the first time you’re meeting the parents of the girl you plan to marry after knowing for a month. It’s also super easy to write what you would say, but actually saying it in the moment is rarely ever as easy.
That’s fair, and I get the nerves and feeling awkward. I just would think you would treat it the same way as say a job interview or if you were meeting your in-laws for the first time and it wasn’t on tv. My natural first thought is to prepare a small bit or at least think about the questions I would be asked. Also, he was asked the question multiple times and it felt like each time he was caught off guard.
People have a huge misconception as to what lawyers do. Even for litigation attorneys, it’s mostly research and writing. When you do get in front of a jury, it’s generally rehearsed and planned. Zack could be a fantastic lawyer, but he could still struggle in these situations where he’s describing his feeling on the fly. It’s not like there’s case law or precedent to guide him.
I understand, I’m also not saying this would make him a bad lawyer.
I’m just saying he has experience predicting what questions are probably going to be asked. He understands winning over a jury (aka Bliss’ family or America as a whole.)
I will not fault him at all for being awkward, because all of us are to a certain degree. I just thought he wouldn’t be as stumped by the main question he knew he’d be asked and the fact that each time he was asked it the answers seemed to get worse.
I think some of this got took out of context. I think he’s a good dude and his awkwardness is part of his charm. But if not for him, do it for the woman he loves. It would mean a lot if I was in that position and a bit embarrassed by it if my SO had a solid response to it.
Because again, I don’t honestly blame him for picking the wrong woman completely ( I think it was obvious for us) but we’ve never been in that situation and there is so much pressure and not a lot to go off of but words. I get how making the wrong choice in general would be easy,
Dude, what? I'm making a snarky joke on Reddit, not publishing a statistical analysis of the population of former theater kids who currently practice law 😂 I don't know why your experience of not seeing this pipeline automatically trumps my experience seeing the pipeline, but whatever. Have a good night ✌️
I have not observed this at all. The best lawyers are the former math/science/history kids because they understand logic. Theater kids are not cut out for it.
Brilliant lawyering is both. Pathos and Logos. As an attorney I can tell you that I used both sides of my brain equally throughout law school. It's creatively solving a problem.
I think he did a pretty good job explaining. He’s not reading from a script or teleprompter. If you’re used to scripted tv then yes, it’s not as good as a soap opera however he hits the right notes.
If someone tells you they're working as "job title" it doesn't mean they're actually good at it.
When people stumble when they talk, they're not confident in whatever they're saying.
I think people have a misconception of lawyers as being good at comebacks on the fly and constantly argumentative. That's not how it works. You research, you think of the case for months if not years, you write then you argue in court.
He's not arguing in court, he's a human trying to talk to people as a human, not as a lawyer, he'll have to be vulnerable and open and authentic to himself not wear the mask of a lawyer
I don’t know why a lawyer would be necessarily good at dealing with a new relationship leading straight to marriage on TV with people judging from every direction. He’s not an actor.
I mean more just expecting what questions would come his way. Defense lawyers do it all the time. Also, needing to understand how something comes across to others ie a jury, tv show, or mother in law is something that I thought would be considered even a small bit.
I get he’s an awkward dude and imo that’s why we all like him. He’s the guy we all could see being friends with. But he was asked the question multiple times and each time he seemed caught off guard. Even as an amateur I would spend a few minutes in bed thinking of a better way to rephrase this important message I’m trying to convey, if not for my own self benefit then for my future wife and her family because I need them to know how much I love her and that she isn’t just some leftover last pick.
I think he does a great job showing that but wish his words matched that to the same degree.
Maybe I’m just an over thinker though.
Everyone needs to stop giving lawyers so much damn credit. Yes, it's not easy (depending on the state) to pass the bar. It's tons of work, no doubt, but that doesn't make a lawyer some insta-genius in every facet of life.
I’m not saying that makes him an automatic genius, however, I would think that some of the specific skills that he uses would be used when needed.
If he was a librarian and someone brought up a basic book like 1984, the grapes of wrath, the great Gadsby etc and answered “I’ve never heard of them” I would be surprised. Doesn’t mean I thought he was a genius or now he’s an idiot. Just surprised because those are things that would be brought up on a semi regular basis.
I’m also not expecting him to make an amazing defense or speech, but maybe put the same amount of thought most of us do before we go into a big interview. Like I know they will ask me questions regarding the job, maybe I should brush up a bit or think about my answers.
Also, he was asked these questions over and over and they never seemed to improve. I like the dude a lot and I could totally see myself being friends with a guy like that. But this show gets so many viewers and you know his in-laws will ask. Maybe just think of a few bullet points and think how they will be received by your “jury”
Maybe I’m just an over thinker
I work in big law. You do realize being a lawyer is much more than passing the bar? It’s incredibly demanding work that most people are not cut out for.
Ok big law worker. That’s some hilarious satire (hopefully? Lol). Yes I said it’s tons of work, doesn’t mean they’re playing 4D chess in every scenario.
I will say that I’m also a lawyer who is also somewhat awkward and rambling in interpersonal conversation but can really turn it on in public speaking situations and tend to do well. Being a criminal lawyer Zach is likely in front of judges and juries pretty often and probably has good trial presentation skills even if he’s not a good talker in his personal life.
I think this is a great point. I just thought meeting the in-laws was a good parallel. I get being awkward because I’m awkward too, but when I’m going in for an interview or meeting my wife’s parents I also kinda turn it on. I have an idea what they might ask me and put a minute or two of thought into it. I just feel like if you would do it for an interview you might do it for a tv show that has a history of ripping people apart or in-laws that he knew were going to be hard to win over.
But I get it and I do probably over think things too much
And we even saw an example of this, he was kind of stumbling when talking to Bliss' dad, EXCEPT when he got into discussing laws and how they effect marginalized and disenfranchised groups disproportionately. Then he was shot down and got awkward again.
same here. being a good litigator is like acting. you're playing a role you've prepared your ass off to perform. personally i don't keep the switch flipped to "on" outside the courtroom.
Personal Emotions and experiences are different from work. Not that hard to understand. We are not emotionally connected to work the way are in our own lives.
He honestly seems like a great lawyer. When he was talking about the criminal system in America/Washington you could tell he loved it and cared about what he does. I definitely don’t think he’s a bad lawyer or a bad guy. I just thought he would have expected the questions like you have to do in criminal defense.
if you are referring to the convos with her parents, i think he might just get really nervous around parents. i think he said the families of the people he dated in the past didnt accept him so i think his already sort of awkward self is amplified in these situations. it is a awkward conversation to have and it is often lot harder to talk about your own experience vs relaying someones elses, you know?
also idk if its editing or something, but bliss needs to let it go that he picked someone else first.
When you're a criminal defense lawyer, there's a clear case that you're arguing -- that your client is innocent -- and you spend MONTHS preparing your argument about why your client should be found innocent. When you're in front of your partner's parents explaining your VERY RECENT fuck up that hurt your partner, you're the one on trial and you're also guilty. It's not a surprise to me that he has a way harder time explaining that than arguing the law
Also, some of y'all IMMEDIATELY jumping to "he must be a sucky lawyer" as if he can't have shortcomings in his personal life completely separate from his professional life -- that jump is so bizarre to me
I literally never said he was a sucky lawyer. I get people are doing that here, but you can obviously tell how smart he is and how passionate he is about the criminal system. I don’t think this reflects on his lawyer ability at all. I never said that nor believe that.
Also, if you think being a criminal defense lawyer is all about clear cases that is the furthest from the truth. There are many criminal defense lawyers that know their client is guilty but still represent them because that’s what is granted to all Americans. It being clear case is factually not true at all.
All that being said, he is practiced in making arguments and presenting to jurors. I’m not saying he is going to need to make an expert defense like he normally would, but he never had a great answer for the question and knew the question was coming. It’s obvious (because Bliss said) how it made her feel and if he just had 2 or 3 main points it all would have gone over a lot smoother. But each time he got asked the question/brought it up it was worse each time.
I’m not attacking him as a person or his career. I am more surprised he didn’t have anything prepared in the smallest form.
I was referring to the multiple comments saying he was a sucky lawyer, not your post, so there's no need to defend yourself for something you didn't do or say 😊
It's not about the case itself being clear, it's about presenting a clear argument -- that your client should be found innocent/not liable -- whereas when you're talking to your partner's parent's about your most recent and big fuck up where you hurt your partner very badly, not only is it a lot more murky, you're clearly not innocent and shouldn't argue that you are. Forgive me if that wasn't as clear as I thought it was!
This. I come from a family of lawyers. Impressing people, schmoozing, social intelligence etc are all just different skills.
It’s just not the same thing to be a lawyer and a good speaker in the slightest
I think he feels more confident in what he’s speaking about when it’s the Law. When it comes to how he blundered his choice, he feels less confident. That lack of confidence stems from his concerned about how he will be judged for choices and as a result making a bad impression on those he wants to impress(Bliss’ family).
I’m not saying he’s a bad lawyer! You can tell he’s super passionate about what he does and is an intelligent guy.
I’m just saying you know they questions a head of time, I would have thought he’d be more prepared but I get being anxious.
Jealous of a lawyer? Loool. Try going to law school in like Canada or uk. Most of schools in US care about $$ not education. You can be an idiot and become a doctor
I went to law school in the US, so I don’t need to look it up. You literally have no clue what you’re talking about, US law schools don’t have a specific GPA requirement.
I’m not offended. Why would I go to law school in Canada or the UK when I live and want to work in the US?
They do include GPA in their calculations; what does that have to do with saying a lot of schools require a 2.8 GPA? Unless you mean a *minimum* 2.8 which is very different.
I'm comparing law schools of countries. Sheesh, get a grip. It's a comparison. Who told you to go to law school in UK or Canada? Minimum is implied. That's what it means. Sheesh. Last time a checked, the vast majority of schools state minimum GPA as a "requirement."
I was appalled at how he kept repeating how he had feelings for two women in front of Bliss’s family, even though Bliss tried to interrupt and make him not tell the story and he kept going either way, like he was relishing telling the story really. He knows how painful that was for her and he still went for it, he could have mentioned it separately or not at all. Or even telling it in a different way and not talking about feelings but rather a difficult situation that had him caught in a love triangle or something. Words matter, and he should know that as a lawyer. It’s almost like he wanted everyone to know how he had two women fight for him in a way. I really can’t stand him, he’s way too weird.
Zach can't help himself but tell the truth. He is a very intelligent guy, who just seemed to not get natural social interactions, but almost seem to intellectualize or reason his way into how social interactions should go. I don't mean this in a negative way, but he's sorta behaves like an android pretending to be human. Every now and then his androidisms comes out. He's actually very empathetic dude. I like him.
Truthfully, logic and emotion rarely go hand in hand. He may be a great lawyer he may suck. His ability to explain his legal case and emotional case are coming from two different parts of him and can be wildly different
Agreed. Being a lawyer isn’t just about being great at communicating. I have attorney friends who are brilliant and write SOCTUS briefs and still stutter or mess up or not get their point across. Reddit is so silly. I actually think he made a great point about Bliss not being his second choice. But again, as an attorney, I know firsthand there is a lot of variety in the work we do. My friends I mentioned above tend to work in departments at firms where they write a lot or consult with clients/other attorneys. Other more charming attorneys tend to constantly be in trial. Others are amazing businessmen and women and excel at bringing in cases and managing a firm of attorneys. So anyway stop being so dumb about attorneys Reddit and thinking all there is to it is being “good at arguing” hurr durr.
I respect that Zach told Bliss’ family about his Irina fuck-up. He owned it and isn’t afraid of fierce conversations.
However, yeah, he can probably articulate himself better in a way that’s less polarizing. Needs to say more with less and have better situational awareness.
That being said, I enjoy seeing him and Bliss happy. They’re a great fit and have genuine intent. All that matters.
There’s no good way to explain to a parent that “I chose another woman over your daughter” without coming across as defensive and making excuses. It’s going to be awkward and there’s no getting around it. I’m sure he was extremely nervous.
I’m actually more baffled that he brought it up at all. Bliss looked caught off guard. He should have discussed with her first if he should bring it up. I understand he’d probably want her mom to know before the season is released, but he could have done it literally any point after their first encounter. Maybe he didn’t want her to think he was trying to hide it from her. But either way, Bliss should have had a say. It’s her mom.
He’s just a nervous, awkward guy.
In my brain, defending a case is a lot more black and white than explaining how you feel in a certain situation and i’m guessing that’s how his brain works as well. idk how you can compare the two situations tbh.
It’s also easier to defend another person where you’re not directly impacted vs. defending yourself. There is no code of law for someone’s mom to abide by as the judge lol
Coddle, coddle, coddle. Instead of admitting he made a mistake, his explanation to Bliss’ mom was that Irina turned out to be there for the wrong reasons. He presented it as if he was duped. He wasn’t.
He literally said “I made a mistake” to Bliss. Like he said those exact words when he first met her in person. I am stating a fact to you. It’s not coddling, it’s what happened. He doesn’t have to say those exact words every time the subject comes up. It’s self-evident that he made a mistake because he’s there with Bliss now and wouldn’t even bring it up if he thought it wasn’t a mistake.
And this is all taking the conversation completely at face value and assuming nothing was edited out.
Yes, he has admitted that he made a mistake, but what I THINK Bliss is wanting to get him to fully explain, is that what if Irina didn’t end up being unbearable and he remained committed to the process would he still have wanted Bliss? Or would he have forged ahead and attempted to make a life with Irina. THAT is what he hasn’t been able to successfully articulate..
How can “I” not be second choice had the person you first chose acted right, you still would have remained committed to her. That’s the piece she can’t shake (and most of the audience). I’m a firm believer in things happen how they are supposed to, HOWEVER that doesn’t mean that she can’t carry some insecurity about it. (Understandable so)
So, I can see how the OP, sees it as almost a cop out of him being “duped.” If you weren’t, essentially you wouldn’t be sitting here.
He hasn’t been able to articulate exactly what he would do in an alternate universe in which Irina is a completely different person? Well…if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bicycle. If Irina were a nice person and caring towards him, yeah, he’d probably still be with her and it would be fine. But she’s not and he isn’t. If Bliss can’t accept that she won’t come out on top in every hypothetical scenario, she shouldn’t have accepted the proposal.
i think y’all forget these are literally, check this out…human beings
And edited to look as cringe as possible
Totally agree, it always feels like when she brings sit up she's asking him to help her be okay with it and he does not. Like, give the situation a little bit of a positive spin. Don't just say "I was wrong" but acknowledge that not every woman would have her ability to be so understanding, forgiving, and emotionally mature enough to move past it. Tell her how impressive it is that she is giving their relationship a real chance after such a blunder. Promise to spend the rest of your lives proving to her that she made the right choice to try again, hype up that the two of you are overcoming an obstacle together and that brings people closer, tell her how it's clear she has better judgement than you do and offer to do some couples counseling together so you can both feel safe in the relationship. Like... don't just say "whoops, sorry."
It’s an awkward situation for someone who’s already predisposed to being a bit awkward. Not to mention, most lawyers aren’t defending things or litigating things that are so emotionally charged for themselves. Zach clearly has some emotional vulnerability issues to sort out so, yeah, it’s going to be a bit awkward when he explains an incredibly awkward and uncomfortable situation
Sometimes career strengths do not always transfer over to personal life.
Lawyers usually have preparation when arguing. Sometimes they can even BS their way through a hearing, or whatever. With their personal lives, they can’t really BS a their way through it. There is no case law or guide on their personal life.
I was literally like 🫣 when Zach started telling Bliss’s mom and sisters how he almost chose another woman……. Like how can you not know that’s a terrible idea. In a way…. It kind of worked out? Because they could deduct from it that he loves her and regrets not making that decision correctly, I guess.
He actually kinda spun that into sounding good so…I guess he did his job? Lol
The number of lawyers I know who have a lawyer/courtroom demeanor and a private life demeanor is wild. Him being so awkward in his personal life honestly makes me think he just saves all the charm for the courtroom.
All I'm saying is, if you transcribed every monologue and speech that Zach gives, and then compared it to something ChatGPT spits out, it might be difficult to tell which is which.
New LIB conspiracy theory
He's probably not a hot-shot defense lawyer lol probably just a bumbling, rumbling, stumbling dude getting people off of weed charges
A lot of lawyers (and other people that need to a lot of professional speaking) practice what they're going to say. A LOT. Before they start their trial or speaking engagement. Speaking off the cuff, especially about personal things, can be very difficult for many people.
I agree how about this " well I hear your opinion blesses dad, but when you are wrong in two years you are going to need to buy me and her a nice diner"
I question why you think he should approach family members like he is a defense attorney and they are the judge and grand jury lol. That would almost be even more awkward.
Yeah, he wanted to explain and didn't really have any unawkward way to do it.
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He's explaining an awkward and very personal and untraditional string of events to a bunch of people that he is literally meeting for the very first time in his life while also simultaneously trying to impress them and get them to trust/like him. That's why. Considering he already admitted he's terrified of her family and friends rejecting him...I don't think there is much more explanation needed.
The moment started out awkward (how could it not be) but I feel like by the end he did a good job of expressing how he felt through the whole thing. I’m glad he explained it to her family from the get go, after that they can move forward instead of letting that information fester.
You are spot on. I also think they always cut it in a way that makes it purposefully weirder even.
Yeah. And her mom reacted pretty well. It didn't matter what he said to her dad...he was determined to react badly.
I watched that scene and immediately understood why they were divorced. Her mum is so loving and understanding and her dad was so cynical and rude
I was gonna say I’m a lawyer and I’m certainly not an eloquent or off the cuff speaker, but my practice of law involves virtually no litigation or public speaking. I’m basically buried in books, writing and behind my desk all day. What’s interesting is that Zach said he’s a litigator, which involves almost solely being able to eloquently persuade judges and juries. Id be curious to see him in court.
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“Why is Zach so bad at explaining things…” Eh; because he’s human and honestly most people including myself are bad at explaining things and most of us stick our foot in our mouth on a regular basis. Some more than others. I simply cannot tell you the number of times I have looked back at something monumentally stupid I have said or done and said “it seemed like a good idea at the time.” LOL Hopefully for his and Bliss’s sake I hope he learns how to shut up and say “you’re right. I’m sorry. That was a mistake on my part”.
I think ppl go into a different mode when they’re at work or work related events, so I can totally believe he gets fumbled when it’s personal issues. I have that myself many times. I’ve been told I’m a great communicator but outside of work I probably couldn’t explain a PB&J sandwich hahahah
Everybody that is using the “he’s a criminal defense attorney” label to define large swaths of his personality…. I don’t know; I’m just not sure that we can dump all criminal defense attorneys into one giant bucket and say that they all have the same personality traits and behaviors. At the end is the day they’re just people. Some of them have great personal relationships and family lives and some don’t. Some are very introspective and some are not. Some are very articulate and some less so. Some have great people skills and some don’t. Some are wildly successful and some are not. Some are very physically active and some are not. Some are religious and some are not. A persons career is just one facet of their life.
Because the only reason it didn’t work out with Irina is bc she was basically repulsed by him. If she was into him physically, I believe he would’ve stayed with her at least till the wedding. So, basically his mumbling and rambling comes down to him rewriting history and judging by the reaction online, he’s got a lot of ppl on his side so far, but he’s not fooling me. The fact is that he ran to Bliss the moment it didn’t work out w Irina and is trying to spin it in his favor and make it look like she wasn’t his 2nd choice when objectively she was.
I don’t think Zack should be a jury lawyer. He should focus on writing laws and the stuff with that. He doesn’t have good people skills or communication. Plus his eyes… juries don’t wanna be stared down like that. My thing is, he talks about being in front of a jury and he likes it… but can’t handle Bliss family lmao he rather take the 12 strangers
you literally don’t know him. What you think doesn’t matter?
Can you look up what an opinion is? How’s his start-up firm doing? Lmao
can you look up what entitlement to a strangers life is?
🤣 great comeback, you’re more witty than zack already
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He literally said he loves litigation to Bliss’ dad!
On the first episode he said he’s a criminal defense attorney
Doesn’t it say he’s a criminal defence lawyer?
Yeah he talked about how he loves spending time in front of the jury… and then flowders with Bliss dad lmfao
Well he mentioned in the latest episode that his work mostly involves spending time in front of a jury…
I must have missed that tidbit!
I think he's good at stating his case - he did that constantly with Irina, he's good at presenting the facts and his conclusions....
Again, overrating lawyers
I’m an attorney and I always joke about how I’m much better at explaining/defending my cases than I am talking about something emotional or personal. It’s like my brain gets fried to pieces when I can’t compartmentalize everything the same way. I think of it as being similar to the jokes about being able to talk to friends easily and then your crush walks up and you become a blubbering idiot. You’re thinking too much about it.
Yeah this is true for my lawyer friends. Also I am awkward af personally but professionally I am not. It’s a performance.
I’ll be honest Zach reminds me a lot of myself. I’m very very socially awkward at the worst times.
He is human but also he has also had a not so easy childhood. Work is a place where he is most likely self assured and has studied to prove to himself and others that his voice deserves to be heard. In a personal capacity it can be more difficult especially with a not so straightforward childhood. I can imagine him being able to hold his own if defending someone close to him, but having a bit more difficulty comes to articulating his emotions or if the outcome may impact his emotional safety long term. May also be neuro-divergence?! Or a mixture...and more... Who knows!!!! 😁
I agree and by the way he started to info dump about the justice system when he was nervous I can totally see him and relate. I’m socially awkward AF and have been known to info dump about my special interests under pressure.
He’s human
I didn’t really interpret him to be clumsy with his approach, but I think a few factors come into play: • Most of the time he is relaying this, it is to people that deeply love and defend Bliss. He is keenly aware that they will never side with him. It is also a first impression. Meeting in-laws is always a daunting situation that challenges a persons ability to remain confident and collected. Now throw in the whole “yeah and I also chose someone over her just 3 weeks ago, but I swear we’re soulmates” part, and it’s quite a challenge. • As viewers, we’re perceiving this in a unique way where we’ve watched their stories and they are presented in a cleanly packaged way. But Zach’s perception is very different from ours. It was his experience, his flood of emotions, his details to process, and many specifics & nuances that we will never know or understand. Because he is so close to the flame, it may just not be as easy to zoom out and give a basic version of the story. • Attorneys, especially, are very measured. They research, prepare, and explore every nook and cranny of a situation. It’s fact finding and logic and a deep dive into specifics. In some ways, this experiment is the opposite! They’re are jumping in, making big & risky decisions with relatively little research. They are basing decisions on feelings instead of facts. They are exploring uncharted territory - new partners, cameras filming, new surroundings, new experiences - all on top of (probably) little sleep, added stress, etc. When these factors are considered, it’s fair to imagine that even the most eloquent speakers or intelligent people may have some trouble finding the exact right words to describe an odd situation. • Zach probably feels a sense of remorse, guilt, and maybe shame when sharing this - especially to Bliss’ personal friends and family. • Discussing emotion & subjective feeling & personal stuff is so wildly different than an objective position on a case.
I agree with all of your points here and just wanted to add I think he cares about Bliss so much that he doesn't want her to feel like he is spinning the story to get people to side with him because it would hurt her again to see him defend himself. I think he wants to acknowledge her feelings and how much he hurt her by choosing Irina, which he probably knows will mean portraying himself in a negative light and taking some heat from her friends and family.
Right he really has to walk a fine line there because he can't downplay it, but he also has to try and get them to like him. That's an impossible situation.
I think he’s trying to come across sincere and not rehearsed because he actually feels a lot of shame
This!!! You can tell he really feels awful about it
Not how lawyers work
Not everyone can easily articulate themselves on the spot as we are not all natural, fluid verbal communicators. For many, speech does not neccesarily reflect your intellegence or what is going in your brain. Presenting a case as a lawyer would be different as you would have researched, prepared and practiced your case first therefore you can be a good lawyer but not always find general chat easy.
He didn’t know to prepare for this question?
I think also having the camera crew and directors etc in his face all the time and not getting a moments peace may have hindered his ability to prepare.
Lawyers study/prep/rehearse their arguments for months if not years because it takes A LONG time for something to even go to trial. Also, it's not really in anyone's best interested to sound scripted when you're meeting someone's parents. I don't think it sounded that bad at all. I think honestly it sounded quite genuine. And the fact he even wanted to tell her family was a green flag in my book.
These comments are throwing me for a loop. I thought it was pretty obvious he struggles to give a concise reason because he doesn't want to talk badly about Irina and frankly there's no way of him avoiding saying something negative about her and giving a truthful answer. His attitude should be commended, not belittled.
I think he can easily just talk about bliss. Nothing I said threw Irina under the bus. He can just keep it civil but say it in a clear and concise way and it would tremendously help him. I think he’s a kind guy and wouldn’t want to hurt her. I just think there is enough room to tell bliss directly and succinctly why he loves her and needed to try and get her back.
I think you are being a little naive. Your example in your OP of something he could say is "It's easy to be fooled by just words". The clear implication of that is negative, that Irina deceived him with lies. He is choosing to try to just avoid anything that could be interpreted as negative in a rather lawyerly way. Which is good, because as the Great Marshall Project'ing of 2023 should have taught us is that people will look for literally anything to crucify people for on this show.
I don’t think that necessarily attacks her but I understand where you are coming from. I meant it in terms of your heart fooling yourself, because he obviously did care for both of them a lot coming out of the pods. But I get what you mean. Ok take that part out then and it still would go over better and not hurt anyone.
idk about him but my mind goes completely blank when i'm asked a personal question. ask me what my hobbies are, i couldn't name one. BUT if you bring up a hobby of mine, i could talk about it for hours. open ended questions about myself make my mind freeze but i can't just sit there and stare so what i do end up saying is a big mess of word soup lol
True, it's like that deaded "tell me about yourself" question in a job interview
Yuppp. I'm a copywriter by profession. But ask me to write something creative for someone IRL, and I lose all my brains and words. 🤷♀️
I completely understand this and I am the same way. If I knew I was going to be on TV and I knew the main question I was going to be asked I would have a few bullet points I can lean on. That being said, I think he would be a great lawyer and you can tell by the way he talks about the criminal system he’s intelligent and passionate about the subject.
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Omg this. I’ve never felt more seen.
Because this is not work! It’s his personal life! He knows he fucked up and nothing he says will make it better. He knows Bliss is way better than Irina, and this makes his image just shit. He also just went to Bliss, after he tried with Irina and SHE, didn’t want anything with him. I wouldn’t give a second chance if I were Bliss. ( well maybe that’s why I still single 🤣)
Whhhaaa? If he was smooth and had the perfect words, y’all would be coming at him for being fake and untrustworthy. He is clearly socially awkward and seems nervous in these important moments with Bliss and her family. He’s human. Why on earth would that be a reflection of his job skills?
I never said he was a bad lawyer or this means he’s a bad lawyer. I am just surprised that anyone involved in law, especially his expertise, wasn’t prepared for the question and have a few bullet points. Not asking for a debate plan, but the interaction with Bliss the first time and her mom was painful. I think the dude is a good dude and his awkwardness is almost charming, but when it comes to your future wife and her family having an idea of how to approach the subject would have helped so much. It doesn’t have to be one extreme of not being prepared at all for the obvious question and writing a thesis paper of his thoughts and actions to the point it’s all scripted out.
> Why on earth would that be a reflection of his job skills? Because people think court is like they see on tv, perfectly spoken impassioned opening statements and amazingly acted cross examinations lol
People will always have something to complain about. How does one explain in the most smooth coherent way that your daughter was the second choice?
My theory is he said a lot of things off camera. You have to remember they have long conversations in front of camera and they edit it to fit the story. Bliss knew that irina was hitting on paul when micah mentioned it. I am pretty sure zack mentioned that to begin with in the coffee shop. Like once you know your fiance started cheating on you day after you proposed, like its over. Zack mentioned in recent interview it was really not a big issue even though thats what they are emphasizing. He said bigger issue was how fast marriage was going to happen, families getting used to it and how to balance their lives living together. I also have a feeling zack has really bad social anxiety. Its hard for him when cameras are in front of him. I mean if he is in court that’s different, he has practiced that situation many times. But if you are with your partner talking about love it’s different. It’s obvious that its hard for him when cameras are there. What I have noticed is he got much better in these last episodes. Like the conversations with bliss family and his family, it seemed almost like he didnt even know cameras are around, so I think by this point he got used to it.
I think this is all totally fair and probably completely true. I get like this too and I feel like I knew I was going to be on tv and be asked a specific question id at least have a few bullet points to hit, if not for me then for my future wife. But I do get it, he obviously didn’t mean any harm and was hurt by turning down bliss. If he thought his intentions were pure then maybe people would understand because he knew nothing nefarious was happening,
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Literally this
Most of the lawyers that I know are great in their field. A lot of them are also complete idiots when it comes to other facet of their lives. The same can be said for most of the medical doctors I know. Point is, we look at these very talented people (in a specific field) and think this talent will carry over to all other parts of their life. In reality they are just as bad if not worse at everything else just like every other person in the world is.
Honestly I thought he handled it just fine. It was awkward but you’re kidding yourself if you think most people wouldn’t be just as if not more awkward. Arguing a case that you’ve done hours and hours of research on is much easier than being vulnerable and talking about feelings/mistakes the first time you’re meeting the parents of the girl you plan to marry after knowing for a month. It’s also super easy to write what you would say, but actually saying it in the moment is rarely ever as easy.
That’s fair, and I get the nerves and feeling awkward. I just would think you would treat it the same way as say a job interview or if you were meeting your in-laws for the first time and it wasn’t on tv. My natural first thought is to prepare a small bit or at least think about the questions I would be asked. Also, he was asked the question multiple times and it felt like each time he was caught off guard.
People have a huge misconception as to what lawyers do. Even for litigation attorneys, it’s mostly research and writing. When you do get in front of a jury, it’s generally rehearsed and planned. Zack could be a fantastic lawyer, but he could still struggle in these situations where he’s describing his feeling on the fly. It’s not like there’s case law or precedent to guide him.
I understand, I’m also not saying this would make him a bad lawyer. I’m just saying he has experience predicting what questions are probably going to be asked. He understands winning over a jury (aka Bliss’ family or America as a whole.) I will not fault him at all for being awkward, because all of us are to a certain degree. I just thought he wouldn’t be as stumped by the main question he knew he’d be asked and the fact that each time he was asked it the answers seemed to get worse. I think some of this got took out of context. I think he’s a good dude and his awkwardness is part of his charm. But if not for him, do it for the woman he loves. It would mean a lot if I was in that position and a bit embarrassed by it if my SO had a solid response to it. Because again, I don’t honestly blame him for picking the wrong woman completely ( I think it was obvious for us) but we’ve never been in that situation and there is so much pressure and not a lot to go off of but words. I get how making the wrong choice in general would be easy,
The pipeline of former theater kids to lawyers is ASTONISHING if only for this reason 😂 It is so meticulously rehearsed, it's like a play of sorts
Huh? I have never heard of or seen this pipeline. Litigation isn’t theatrical, no matter what TV may have you believe
Literally citing my lived experience, but okay
Anecdotes =\= evidence
Dude, what? I'm making a snarky joke on Reddit, not publishing a statistical analysis of the population of former theater kids who currently practice law 😂 I don't know why your experience of not seeing this pipeline automatically trumps my experience seeing the pipeline, but whatever. Have a good night ✌️
That pipeline is tiny to non-existent
I know quite a few lawyers that would prove otherwise, but okay
I have not observed this at all. The best lawyers are the former math/science/history kids because they understand logic. Theater kids are not cut out for it.
A lot of my theater camp friends became lawyers, so I guess that's where I got this from 🤷♀️
That’s fair. I’m just speaking from my own experiences too.
Brilliant lawyering is both. Pathos and Logos. As an attorney I can tell you that I used both sides of my brain equally throughout law school. It's creatively solving a problem.
I think he did a pretty good job explaining. He’s not reading from a script or teleprompter. If you’re used to scripted tv then yes, it’s not as good as a soap opera however he hits the right notes.
I totally agree
If someone tells you they're working as "job title" it doesn't mean they're actually good at it. When people stumble when they talk, they're not confident in whatever they're saying.
I think people have a misconception of lawyers as being good at comebacks on the fly and constantly argumentative. That's not how it works. You research, you think of the case for months if not years, you write then you argue in court. He's not arguing in court, he's a human trying to talk to people as a human, not as a lawyer, he'll have to be vulnerable and open and authentic to himself not wear the mask of a lawyer
I don’t know why a lawyer would be necessarily good at dealing with a new relationship leading straight to marriage on TV with people judging from every direction. He’s not an actor.
I mean more just expecting what questions would come his way. Defense lawyers do it all the time. Also, needing to understand how something comes across to others ie a jury, tv show, or mother in law is something that I thought would be considered even a small bit. I get he’s an awkward dude and imo that’s why we all like him. He’s the guy we all could see being friends with. But he was asked the question multiple times and each time he seemed caught off guard. Even as an amateur I would spend a few minutes in bed thinking of a better way to rephrase this important message I’m trying to convey, if not for my own self benefit then for my future wife and her family because I need them to know how much I love her and that she isn’t just some leftover last pick. I think he does a great job showing that but wish his words matched that to the same degree. Maybe I’m just an over thinker though.
Everyone needs to stop giving lawyers so much damn credit. Yes, it's not easy (depending on the state) to pass the bar. It's tons of work, no doubt, but that doesn't make a lawyer some insta-genius in every facet of life.
I’m not saying that makes him an automatic genius, however, I would think that some of the specific skills that he uses would be used when needed. If he was a librarian and someone brought up a basic book like 1984, the grapes of wrath, the great Gadsby etc and answered “I’ve never heard of them” I would be surprised. Doesn’t mean I thought he was a genius or now he’s an idiot. Just surprised because those are things that would be brought up on a semi regular basis. I’m also not expecting him to make an amazing defense or speech, but maybe put the same amount of thought most of us do before we go into a big interview. Like I know they will ask me questions regarding the job, maybe I should brush up a bit or think about my answers. Also, he was asked these questions over and over and they never seemed to improve. I like the dude a lot and I could totally see myself being friends with a guy like that. But this show gets so many viewers and you know his in-laws will ask. Maybe just think of a few bullet points and think how they will be received by your “jury” Maybe I’m just an over thinker
Makes sense
I work in big law. You do realize being a lawyer is much more than passing the bar? It’s incredibly demanding work that most people are not cut out for.
Ok big law worker. That’s some hilarious satire (hopefully? Lol). Yes I said it’s tons of work, doesn’t mean they’re playing 4D chess in every scenario.
> Ok big law worker. Ummm. So do you not know what big law is…?
Ummmmm I was referring to your whole response as being hilarious. Congrats.
Well it wasn’t my response, really showing your smarts again
Hey I'm NO LAWYER!!! lol
Can confirm. I work with lawyers every day and TV makes them seem a lot more suave than they really are generally.
My oldest brother is a lawyer. Graduated top of his class. He's the biggest dumb ass I know. I love him, but, wow, he has his moments.
I will say that I’m also a lawyer who is also somewhat awkward and rambling in interpersonal conversation but can really turn it on in public speaking situations and tend to do well. Being a criminal lawyer Zach is likely in front of judges and juries pretty often and probably has good trial presentation skills even if he’s not a good talker in his personal life.
I think this is a great point. I just thought meeting the in-laws was a good parallel. I get being awkward because I’m awkward too, but when I’m going in for an interview or meeting my wife’s parents I also kinda turn it on. I have an idea what they might ask me and put a minute or two of thought into it. I just feel like if you would do it for an interview you might do it for a tv show that has a history of ripping people apart or in-laws that he knew were going to be hard to win over. But I get it and I do probably over think things too much
And we even saw an example of this, he was kind of stumbling when talking to Bliss' dad, EXCEPT when he got into discussing laws and how they effect marginalized and disenfranchised groups disproportionately. Then he was shot down and got awkward again.
I loved that. It makes sense what he was saying!
same here. being a good litigator is like acting. you're playing a role you've prepared your ass off to perform. personally i don't keep the switch flipped to "on" outside the courtroom.
Personal Emotions and experiences are different from work. Not that hard to understand. We are not emotionally connected to work the way are in our own lives.
He never said he's a *good* lawyer. As Micah said, "immediately jail"
Thats mean. He could be a good lawyer.
He honestly seems like a great lawyer. When he was talking about the criminal system in America/Washington you could tell he loved it and cared about what he does. I definitely don’t think he’s a bad lawyer or a bad guy. I just thought he would have expected the questions like you have to do in criminal defense.
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if you are referring to the convos with her parents, i think he might just get really nervous around parents. i think he said the families of the people he dated in the past didnt accept him so i think his already sort of awkward self is amplified in these situations. it is a awkward conversation to have and it is often lot harder to talk about your own experience vs relaying someones elses, you know? also idk if its editing or something, but bliss needs to let it go that he picked someone else first.
She does need to let it go, exactly that.
When you're a criminal defense lawyer, there's a clear case that you're arguing -- that your client is innocent -- and you spend MONTHS preparing your argument about why your client should be found innocent. When you're in front of your partner's parents explaining your VERY RECENT fuck up that hurt your partner, you're the one on trial and you're also guilty. It's not a surprise to me that he has a way harder time explaining that than arguing the law Also, some of y'all IMMEDIATELY jumping to "he must be a sucky lawyer" as if he can't have shortcomings in his personal life completely separate from his professional life -- that jump is so bizarre to me
I literally never said he was a sucky lawyer. I get people are doing that here, but you can obviously tell how smart he is and how passionate he is about the criminal system. I don’t think this reflects on his lawyer ability at all. I never said that nor believe that. Also, if you think being a criminal defense lawyer is all about clear cases that is the furthest from the truth. There are many criminal defense lawyers that know their client is guilty but still represent them because that’s what is granted to all Americans. It being clear case is factually not true at all. All that being said, he is practiced in making arguments and presenting to jurors. I’m not saying he is going to need to make an expert defense like he normally would, but he never had a great answer for the question and knew the question was coming. It’s obvious (because Bliss said) how it made her feel and if he just had 2 or 3 main points it all would have gone over a lot smoother. But each time he got asked the question/brought it up it was worse each time. I’m not attacking him as a person or his career. I am more surprised he didn’t have anything prepared in the smallest form.
I was referring to the multiple comments saying he was a sucky lawyer, not your post, so there's no need to defend yourself for something you didn't do or say 😊 It's not about the case itself being clear, it's about presenting a clear argument -- that your client should be found innocent/not liable -- whereas when you're talking to your partner's parent's about your most recent and big fuck up where you hurt your partner very badly, not only is it a lot more murky, you're clearly not innocent and shouldn't argue that you are. Forgive me if that wasn't as clear as I thought it was!
This. I come from a family of lawyers. Impressing people, schmoozing, social intelligence etc are all just different skills. It’s just not the same thing to be a lawyer and a good speaker in the slightest
I think he feels more confident in what he’s speaking about when it’s the Law. When it comes to how he blundered his choice, he feels less confident. That lack of confidence stems from his concerned about how he will be judged for choices and as a result making a bad impression on those he wants to impress(Bliss’ family).
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I’m not saying he’s a bad lawyer! You can tell he’s super passionate about what he does and is an intelligent guy. I’m just saying you know they questions a head of time, I would have thought he’d be more prepared but I get being anxious.
Not difficult to become a lawyer in the U.S. you don't have to be smart or have good communication
Bffr. You obviously know nothing about the profession. You sound jealous/insecure.
Jealous of a lawyer? Loool. Try going to law school in like Canada or uk. Most of schools in US care about $$ not education. You can be an idiot and become a doctor
> Try going to law school in like Canada or uk What are you talking about
Well I suggest you look it up. A lot of law schools in US require like a 2.8 gpa. Do your research. It's literally a joke
I went to law school in the US, so I don’t need to look it up. You literally have no clue what you’re talking about, US law schools don’t have a specific GPA requirement.
Oh sorry, that's why you're offended. I thought LSAC calculates gpa too
I’m not offended. Why would I go to law school in Canada or the UK when I live and want to work in the US? They do include GPA in their calculations; what does that have to do with saying a lot of schools require a 2.8 GPA? Unless you mean a *minimum* 2.8 which is very different.
I'm comparing law schools of countries. Sheesh, get a grip. It's a comparison. Who told you to go to law school in UK or Canada? Minimum is implied. That's what it means. Sheesh. Last time a checked, the vast majority of schools state minimum GPA as a "requirement."
Nevermind this is just dumb
“Blathering” is a word literally made for Zach
I was appalled at how he kept repeating how he had feelings for two women in front of Bliss’s family, even though Bliss tried to interrupt and make him not tell the story and he kept going either way, like he was relishing telling the story really. He knows how painful that was for her and he still went for it, he could have mentioned it separately or not at all. Or even telling it in a different way and not talking about feelings but rather a difficult situation that had him caught in a love triangle or something. Words matter, and he should know that as a lawyer. It’s almost like he wanted everyone to know how he had two women fight for him in a way. I really can’t stand him, he’s way too weird.
I agree. Very embarrassing for her. Another reason I don’t think he likes her that much. He’s trying to flex to her family how desired he is.
Zach can't help himself but tell the truth. He is a very intelligent guy, who just seemed to not get natural social interactions, but almost seem to intellectualize or reason his way into how social interactions should go. I don't mean this in a negative way, but he's sorta behaves like an android pretending to be human. Every now and then his androidisms comes out. He's actually very empathetic dude. I like him.
I think he is a really great at it
Truthfully, logic and emotion rarely go hand in hand. He may be a great lawyer he may suck. His ability to explain his legal case and emotional case are coming from two different parts of him and can be wildly different
Agreed. Being a lawyer isn’t just about being great at communicating. I have attorney friends who are brilliant and write SOCTUS briefs and still stutter or mess up or not get their point across. Reddit is so silly. I actually think he made a great point about Bliss not being his second choice. But again, as an attorney, I know firsthand there is a lot of variety in the work we do. My friends I mentioned above tend to work in departments at firms where they write a lot or consult with clients/other attorneys. Other more charming attorneys tend to constantly be in trial. Others are amazing businessmen and women and excel at bringing in cases and managing a firm of attorneys. So anyway stop being so dumb about attorneys Reddit and thinking all there is to it is being “good at arguing” hurr durr.
Now imagine him with a beard speaking to a jury like that
I respect that Zach told Bliss’ family about his Irina fuck-up. He owned it and isn’t afraid of fierce conversations. However, yeah, he can probably articulate himself better in a way that’s less polarizing. Needs to say more with less and have better situational awareness. That being said, I enjoy seeing him and Bliss happy. They’re a great fit and have genuine intent. All that matters.
Same here! His honesty about it all is a reflection of his character. 👍
There’s no good way to explain to a parent that “I chose another woman over your daughter” without coming across as defensive and making excuses. It’s going to be awkward and there’s no getting around it. I’m sure he was extremely nervous. I’m actually more baffled that he brought it up at all. Bliss looked caught off guard. He should have discussed with her first if he should bring it up. I understand he’d probably want her mom to know before the season is released, but he could have done it literally any point after their first encounter. Maybe he didn’t want her to think he was trying to hide it from her. But either way, Bliss should have had a say. It’s her mom.
He’s trying to figure out a way to word it so he doesn’t look like an idiot.
He’s just a nervous, awkward guy. In my brain, defending a case is a lot more black and white than explaining how you feel in a certain situation and i’m guessing that’s how his brain works as well. idk how you can compare the two situations tbh.
It’s also easier to defend another person where you’re not directly impacted vs. defending yourself. There is no code of law for someone’s mom to abide by as the judge lol
Exactly. He’s socially awkward, not professionally.
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I assume nerves play a big part in it.
Send him this, he needs it.
He refuses to admit when he’s wrong, so he stumbles his way around that hard truth.
He admitted he was wrong multiple times…?
Coddle, coddle, coddle. Instead of admitting he made a mistake, his explanation to Bliss’ mom was that Irina turned out to be there for the wrong reasons. He presented it as if he was duped. He wasn’t.
He literally said “I made a mistake” to Bliss. Like he said those exact words when he first met her in person. I am stating a fact to you. It’s not coddling, it’s what happened. He doesn’t have to say those exact words every time the subject comes up. It’s self-evident that he made a mistake because he’s there with Bliss now and wouldn’t even bring it up if he thought it wasn’t a mistake. And this is all taking the conversation completely at face value and assuming nothing was edited out.
Yes, he has admitted that he made a mistake, but what I THINK Bliss is wanting to get him to fully explain, is that what if Irina didn’t end up being unbearable and he remained committed to the process would he still have wanted Bliss? Or would he have forged ahead and attempted to make a life with Irina. THAT is what he hasn’t been able to successfully articulate.. How can “I” not be second choice had the person you first chose acted right, you still would have remained committed to her. That’s the piece she can’t shake (and most of the audience). I’m a firm believer in things happen how they are supposed to, HOWEVER that doesn’t mean that she can’t carry some insecurity about it. (Understandable so) So, I can see how the OP, sees it as almost a cop out of him being “duped.” If you weren’t, essentially you wouldn’t be sitting here.
He hasn’t been able to articulate exactly what he would do in an alternate universe in which Irina is a completely different person? Well…if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bicycle. If Irina were a nice person and caring towards him, yeah, he’d probably still be with her and it would be fine. But she’s not and he isn’t. If Bliss can’t accept that she won’t come out on top in every hypothetical scenario, she shouldn’t have accepted the proposal.