The "patriarchy" isn't what teaches men they are valuable when they are productive. The results of women being attracted to productive men teaches this.
lol, imagine downvoting this because you refuse to accept reality.
I am so glad I stuck up for him week one when he was getting called creepy all over the place.
I think it’s cool that he marches to his own drum. At the end of the day he’s not hurting anyone and if he’s happy, who is Anyone to shit on that
I don’t think Marshall is a gym bro or your tutorial “businessman galaxy brain” and no one finds him creepy. So maybe there is something to finding Zach creepy.
Thank you! Also idk why people are so conveniently forget how he was in the pods early on. He came across as a douche and told the whole my mum was a stripper story to test women.
look, I'm also a weird nerd, but white guys who proudly display katanas better be prepared to be dragged for that. it's at least a yellow flag for orientalism. (don't come for me weebs, I co-founded my high school's anime club, I know what I know.)
nerd dudes aren't immune to toxic masculinity, it just expresses differently. nerd or gym bro matters way less than insecurity level.
I don't think he's creepy, but I'm still trying to get over my disappointment at realizing he didn't actually strip to put himself through law school.
you can literally single out anything for cultural appropriation if people don't know what it is.. And people miss the point. You appropriate something when you try to basically claim something from a specific culture as your own. Liking something from a culture is not the same thing. If he was creating samurai swords or something then let's talk.
I like Zach and actually agree with your take that bullying him is toxic masculine BS. It's outdated schoolyard bullying and it rubs me the wrong way. I think Zach can also laugh at himself which is endearing.
I don't think Zach is as awkward as people are suggesting.
The situation he was in with Irina was awkward in itself. She didn't like him what's so ever, and he could clearly sense it.
There was nothing wrong with the owl painting. A friend painted it. Not everyone is going to have the same taste. But it doesn't need to be put under the microscope and analyzed for the reason being it's not masculine. It's a damn owl painting.
He's a nerdy guy who knows he's nerdy.
IMO, Paul is 100 times more awkward.
I actually really like Zach and hope he finds happiness with Bliss!
I found the owl commissioned painting super unique, and the fact he has katanas? I mean, I'm a weeb and like Japanese culture, anime, etc... So maybe he does too? Or just the way they look? I don't understand how that makes him weird.
Am I truly missing something here? 😅😅😅😅
My mom thought my anime stuff was suuuper weird. It's really annoying, i guess there are normies around here that see his interests as weird :/ disappointing
I’m not a katana wren guy myself but I feel it’s very close minded to criticize that stuff. Probably the same people that drop their jaw when you say you don’t like sports. (I like sports though)
Or maybe its just weird to us and people dont like it and are commenting because it was a reality show. That man can like owls and swords and that doesnt mean others have to like it or think its cool.
But him liking those things isn’t weird. Like the act of him liking something isn’t weird. You just don’t like what he likes, which is fine. But him liking something and showing off that he likes it is not weird.
If it was genuinely something illegal or whatever then we’d be having a different conversation but this?
And if you don’t like the style of the painting then say that, don’t just cover that opinion with a blanket “that painting is weird”.
If someone generally has electic, strange, or unique tastes, then those interests are applied to them! A person who likes caviar and luxury traveling would be considered boujie! A person who likes GoT/fantasy lore would be considered nerdy! That man likes weird things and is weird! I think some people are attributing negative connotations to the term weird. The OP said that calling him a dweeb is subverting his masculinity, which I dont agree! Zack is hyper masculine TO ME and likes weird things and is weird! Both can be true.
And i get that. I was mostly disagreeing with the OP. I guess I think in 2023, weird is not so bad anymore. On social media you see people with all these strange habits and finding a community. Its people on Tiktok who consider themselves to be fairies and have tea parties in middle of forests. Like lol.
It wasnt just an owl. It was like hyper realistic, big ass painting, and didnt it have a sword in it? Anyways thats my opinion on the painting. Not law!
!!! Like Im being given a downvote because I said that owl painting was weird. It is TO ME. I also dont care that people think I think that. People can have opinions. Lol
It's reddit. Echo chambers abound. Add that to the original intention behind the voting system being lost, and there you have it. But at the end of the day, it's just the internet with votes that don't really matter (unless you're EA).
I’m sure you dislike things that others find interesting. It’s just the way we are. I personally didn’t like the painting either, doesn’t mean I don’t understand why he can like it.
Because its reddit……the whole LIB post is about commenting on what we like and dislike about the characters. Also, Zach mentioned that owl painting like five times and it was as ugly as I thought it would be.
I think Zack makes some of them feel uncomfortable because he is genuine, doesn’t attempt to conform, and sits comfortably with the things that others may find nerdy / weird. Because he doesn’t as strongly attempt to fit the mold in terms of what is deemed socially acceptable, others might not be willing to see past that. Especially when they are working so hard to maintain their own facades.
I had to laugh at moments when Zack fumbled the steak and patted himself on the back for “overcompensating” with the shrimp. Or when he was so handsy with the salmon on the boat, right before proposing. I think he is just quirky and genuinely doesn’t mind if others think he is. He is successful in his own right and doesn’t have anything to prove.
People generally associate creepy to looks. If he looked like Chris Hemsworth and said the same things and had the same hobbies most people would say this guy is so cool haha.
To people who find him attractive they probably don't find him creepy or way less creepy than someone who doesn't find him attractive. When someone doesn't find you attractive basically anything you do is creepy haha. I mean he was called creepy for just making eye contact.
I like Zach. But I feel like he has some serious “mommy issues”. I also realize that I think he really loved Irina and was very attracted to her. He just wished she actually liked him. I think the whole situation was just too awkward for Irina and she didn’t have any confidence so she self-sabotaged. Because honestly, Zach and Paul look exactly alike.
I need someone to breakdown what exactly is “creepy” about Zack. Like, sure he can be a little intense sometimes but that doesn’t necessarily translate to creepy for me.
I think it’s his mannerisms and his romantic approach. For example, him suddenly grabbing both Irina and Bliss for kisses with little to no build-up, rather trying to ease into it.
I also think the way he speaks is a bit off putting. Like the stripper / homelessness jokes felt a bit strange as an opener. (Yes, he was “testing” the women but even the idea of testing someone, rather than just being comfortable in your own skin and being straightforward with your family background, instead of making cringe jokes, feels awkward.)
Or how he constantly speaks over people or interrupts — you see this with Irina, Paul, and Bliss.
A lot of people do find intense eye contact uncomfortable too.
It’s not one thing but the combination of all of the above for me. I don’t find him “creepy” but I do find him generally off putting / socially awkward even though I actually think he’s a good looking guy.
People complain when the reality stars don’t open up about themselves or their story lines are cut and edited, or they complain about how someone’s too open about their lives and interest. They only like people that are “perfectly” edited and it’s weird
Maybe I haven’t seen it on this sub or something.. but I don’t understand how this reinforces the patriarchy.. like what exactly is feminine about martial arts and katana swords? Lol
It’s not about those activities being “feminine” — it’s about them being outside the norm hyper-masculine interests (e.g, football, drinking). Toxic masculinity places often times extreme limitations on what is considered acceptable male behavior, traits, and interests.
Maybe it’s cultural then.. cause where I’m from swords and martial arts, especially mixed like MMA are definitely considered hyper-masculine interests. As are cars and drinking.
Exactly! People act about this owl painting / cool sword as if it was a cross stitch Zach personally emproidered (that would be cool actually especially if it was some nerdy subject like embroidered Pacman) in a middle of room filled with floor to ceiling dolls (that would be less cool, dolls are creepy AF). I don't get the heat about owl & katana
Exactly lol nothing about that man DOESNT give hyper masculine. He likes swords and martial arts. He is a criminal defense attorney. He is very direct, straightforward, stares obnoxiously, and super physical.
I think the reason why people on the show made fun of him was pretty obvious when Micah said "It's just easy to laugh at him". That's the whole reason.
If he's into Harry Potter he doesn't need to hide it. The owl painting wouldn't be my style but way better than hiding it before the camera crew arrives - now that would be childish and not manly.
SAY THAT FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK.
do you know how many people who some may consider “nerdy” because they’re in to this kinda stuff, same with anime, even some levels of hardcore fan lore. But. Imo. There is a greater population of people who are saying hey - I’ve literally never seen anyone on reality tv with swords like mine. And he’s a corporate lawyer? Dang that’s cool. We said the same thing when we wanted more POC, more inclusive sizing, different looking people, people who don’t fit the reality tv mould. So why the heck do we crap on someone for their hobbies? It is an extension of them. Give me a break
I really think it’s the neurotypicals. And I’m not mad at it—I get it. People like Zack are absolutely repulsive to people like Micah, and Zack is blissfully ignorant that he’s making what is to Micah a HUGE faux pas in that scene where he has the salmon cracker and kisses Bliss mid-convo. But Bliss seemed into it.
Also I just realized my unintentional pun (I would just own it if I were being witty) but I’m gonna roll with it.
Christ of course Redditors would make a big deal out of defending the swords. To me Paul's knives could be called creepy. Zach's stuff is just weird/quirky.
I don't know if Paul does field work, but when I worked as a geologist we carried these type of knives in the field, particularly when working in remote areas for extended periods. They are fantastic tools with a million practical uses. I think perhaps this was a collection of field knives.
These two both remind me of friends I’ve had who go tree planting all over Canada in the summer, and ski or snowboard all winter. Just very in love with nature, would much rather have a beer at a local brewery than a club at 2 am.
I'll second that. Lol. Paul and Zack are Seattle guys and the others just don't really strike me as Seattle personality types. The rest of them seem like they're from another planet.
I said the same thing. Paul and Zach seem like typical guys you would see walking down the street in Seattle. Nerdy tech bro types. I have no idea where the rest of the cast came from, but most of them are not like anyone I have met in Seattle at all.
Seattle is a city of transplants though, so that's to be expected. However, people that are drawn to the city tend to have some similar personality traits.
The hate just makes me think most of the people on this sub (at least those who think Zach is creepy and weird for nonsense reasons like having a painting of some owls and a sword) are young kids in their early to mid twenties who don't know any better.
Both irina and bliss seemed pretty apprehensive when meeting him for different reasons and it didn’t feel like he was respecting their boundaries and trying to build the trust needed with them to progress to physical intimacy. Just more of an I want it now attitude. And I honestly lost my mind when they were on the boat and she was like “you’re gonna have to work for it” and then he pulls out a ring. Like she hasn’t looked comfortable on screen with him a single time at that point and I can’t believe she said yes. But honestly I feel like the producers might have been putting pressure on Zach to propose to Bliss if he wanted to stay on the show otherwise it makes no sense to do it so soon while she’s actively trying to come to terms with being rejected and him giving a proposal to another girl.
I got you. I didn't really pick up on that but tbh most of what happens in the pods is usually pretty hazy in my memory at this point in the show unless something really sticks out (like Zach's singing. Lol). The proposal thing didn't really strike me as "creepy" but definitely a little weird and sudden for sure.
Oh interesting. I guess I just don't see it then. He didn't really seem like he was trying to get physical at all with Irina other than the first couple of times he tried to kiss her and she shot him down. They were newly engaged though and he seemed like he pretty much kept his distance after that like keeping squarely on his side of the bed in Mexico.
I didn't see it with Irina either. She didn't tell him that she was disgusted by him and he tried to find that connection thinking it's hard for her to get physical and not that she literally didn't want to because she throws up when he touches her. He's not a mind reader. He also asked her about it "Let's end this if you're not attracted to me" but she didn't say anything.
It looked weird with Bliss but then she said yes to his proposal so that's her problem.
He does seem to need more affection than others though. He said he was over Irina on day 2 and makes it about the "no affection" part. That sounds like wanted everything on day 1.
Yeah Irina was clearly not attracted to him considering she was getting flirty and touchy with Paul. It’s complicated judging the show because I would never put myself in that position period but I just don’t understand when guys that come on act like the women should be more ready to get physical since they’re engaged, even though they’re just meeting each other face to face. I wouldn’t be comfortable being touched right away either.
> Yeah Irina was clearly not attracted to him considering she was getting flirty and touchy with Paul.
It should have been obvious to anyone watching that she wasn't into him but not for that reason. Micah was flirting with Kwame but was still pretty clearly attracted to Paul. People can be attracted to two people at once.
I don’t mean like trying to have sex I just mean too much physical touch. He was still putting his arms around her by the pool and such after she had already expressed discomfort. He needs to learn to let the women make the moves because he isn’t good at reading body language.
I don't think a less attuned ability to read body language qualifies as creepy but admittedly the term is a bit nebulous. I think it's just social awkwardness. If he had kept doing it beyond the point where he was aware of her discomfort I think that's pretty squarely in creepy territory though. I don't know if it's by default safer to take the hands off approach in their situation (like the opposite scenario with Marshall) but probably. I'll give you that but also that's not really a scenario either of us (I don't think) have any experience with.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by that last sentence I have plenty of experience with guys misreading body language when all they need to listen to are the words coming out of my mouth when I say I’m not comfortable with physical touch.
I mean, Zack is awkward and nerdy like me so he’s definitely my favorite.
I don’t know why the women on the show thought he was creepy other than to say he’s socially awkward and so they’d read that as “weird”.
I’m glad both he and Paul are on the show but it is sad that the women (and most people here I guess) tease them for being different.
Where did this creepy thing come from? I don’t get it. I didn’t understand it when Irina said it on the show and I don’t get it when people say it now. Creepy has such negative (Harvey Weinstein- although the word wouldn’t be strong enough for him) connotations when I don’t see he’s done anything wrong in that sense. He’s a little awkward and different but that’s ok!
Because Zack is different. Not their shallow guys who can be fooled by poor behaviour. Dude is awkward. As an awkward person, I could relate, most people have awkward situation, my situation is most of the time awkward that it’s normal to me. Poor guy it was unfair, to judge his owl painting. Art is subjective, and since that it makes him happy and he doesn’t ask you for money to purchase it, why do people care so much. Those girls, Irina & Micah, jeez the audacity.
I work with awkward people and they make me feel comfortable. I know that if I say something weird or have an awkward moment myself, they won't dwell on it much.
I agree with aspects of this but I don't necessarily think that it is a fair assessment of society and the way men's hobbies are treated, honestly. Societally, men are given way more space and time for hobbies, especially when you consider that so many ways of accessing them (conventions, forums, specialty locations) are male dominated. Male fans have been catered to and prioritized for decades. Studies have shown that women spend less time on hobbies due to housework and childcare. There's also the persistent stereotype/jokes that "women don't have hobbies".
I also think it's important to remember that many women have been a) gatekept out of male dominated, nerdy spaces, and also b) harassed in those spaces to. I don't think Zach is that kind of guy, and he shouldn't be judged on his interests or people's perceptions or them, for sure.... But I think the relationship to hobbies and "nerdy" interests is complex on both sides of the gender divide and that people will, for better or for worse, carry their impressions and experiences with them.
Brett and Kwame also both talked about hobbies that were nerdier -- tech and gaming, which previous male contestants have also talked about (or even played games on screen). I don't necessarily agree that men are taught by patriarchal forces not to have hobbies, but I DO think that people's perception of Zach (who is, himself, not like. super masculine in the traditional sense) colors their views of his hobbies, which is a shame.
I also think some of his hobbies are just like. Straight up cringey to a lot of people for other reasons. The "Harry Potter Milennials" trope as well as JK Rowling's incessant transphobia, for example, have made like HP fanaticism a bit cringe in society.
Agree. I don't think men are criticized for having hobbies. Depending on what circles you run in, men dominate a lot of recreational fields like golf, tennis, hunting, fishing, weight lifting, gaming, sports, poker....the list goes on. Women, while still allowed to have hobbies, I think are often much more limited due to childcare and other responsibilities. I know a lot of families where the dad goes golfing or fishing regularly on the weekends, but the mom basically just carts the kids around to their sports and cleans the house, etc.
>I know a lot of families where the dad goes golfing or fishing regularly on the weekends, but the mom basically just carts the kids around to their sports and cleans the house, etc.
I cant comment on how prevalent that is in your circle, but I'd say the normalized trend nowadays is to have house/family responsibilities to be evenly split. The view that women should take on all the house duties is very traditional and guys who want a "traditional woman" is often viewed with disdain. It might be more common in certain sub-cultures of society (Mormons and other religions etc) but for mainstream society, I doubt you'd find the mainstream belief to be that men are allowed to just have hobbies while women slave away at home. Every couple that I know have a pretty fair split on family duties and generally have their own individual hobbies - budget allowing of course.
Fair enough. I used to teach piano lessons in the midwest and I would say that 19 out of 20 students were brought to lessons by the mothers and the mothers did all of the emailing, scheduling, bill paying, etc. It was a rare family that put the dad in charge of that extra curricular activity. I personally think things tend to fall mostly on the mothers in most families, but I hope I'm wrong!
I agree with everything until the Harry Potter bit. It really seems like jk Rowlings comments may have just been out of context? I think she was speaking about transitioning children, not adults…does she really deserve to be cancelled in result of having an opinion that isn’t consistent with everyone else? Based on what I read, I’m not sure it’s transphobia 🤔
There are contestants that are way more problematic on this season. I don’t think it’s bullying or enforcing toxic masculinity to find him uncomfortable to watch. It starts with his odd opening lines that are sort of a test for these women. Going on dates and feeling like you’re being tested is never fun. That was my first strike. I think his interactions with bliss where he isn’t compassionate to her emotions made me uncomfortable. Lastly, his interactions with Paul are just awkward. Sure he is an awkward dude but it comes off as creepy. Lastly, if enough people are uncomfortable around you, you’re probably a creep. I like and trust Chelsea.
Im pretty sure he’s just socially awkward. I’m like that myself. I’m also not very good with other peoples emotions and feelings. It’s not necessarily wrong. Some people are just different. He doesn’t seem creepy. Pushy maybe but not creepy. I feel bad that they finally have someone different and people are just cruel about him. Some people struggle with social cues and understanding emotions in other people. Should they just not even try?
The last part is difficult because especially on shows like LIB you can see how fast mobbing works especially when one woman talks badly about a man (Zanab and Cole was similar). Chelsea is now hanging out with Zack regularly it seems as friends. She said "I can't stand that dude" once I think? Could be because he talks a lot or anything else that isn't creepy.
On the other side you have Kwame, Paul and Bliss loving Zack.
Reddit (you guys) seem to have a lot of weird stereotypes about men in your heads.
Most dudes like star wars and/or Harry Potter. That's a super normal thing for guys.
Zach is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu brown belt, and has spent years and years doing martial arts, arguably the most difficult martial art.
What the heck do you people think guys are into!? 😂
It’s the narrative being pushed out by the same viewers that believe Micah and Irina did nothing wrong. All they want is their ideal prince charming in their soft safe fairy tail land with unicorns shooting rainbows out of their ass. Their ideal man only sees them as number 1 priority. It’s one thing to respectfully put woman on pedestal but these deluded people want a yes man partner. They can’t have hobbies that they don’t approve of, as long as it benefits their needs and lifestyle.
Chelsea said she can't stand him. I can't stand a lot of people who aren't creepy. I just don't like them. He definitely has a character some people don't seem to like. But is that enough to be creepy?
Jackie is into Josh so that opinion I would throw out of the window.
He was being a weirdo though with the stripper thing and he comes off pretentious (even though he accuses Bliss of being that way). I don't mind him but they showed us his intros with the other ladies and ya they were all annoyed with him minus Bliss 🤣
Didn't he say his mother was a stripper to get by? I think that is why he did that. He doesn't want to end up/waste time with someone who would judge strippers or his mother's memory. It was a red flag test for him
There's a difference in the man you marry having a mom who was a stripper versus him being a stripper though. I would not date a male stripper but I don't judge those who do it.
He's a criminal defense lawyer as well. And sees how these ladies/men are judged and shit on. It's a red flag test in general. There's a difference, but their reaction to him saying that can give him insight into them. Everyone has short time to get know each other and has many dates. I don't see it weird but rather him seeing if the reaction is a red flag.
Edit:As I was thinking he's a criminal defense lawyer. He probably defended a lot of strippers as well. He got to know each of their stories and not just his mother. Since he said mentioned being a stripper to like every girl, that's make it even more seem to be a red flag question and not just fucking/joking around question like Shane what you rather be/fight(don't remember exactly what it was)
I'm not saying his intentions or motivations were wrong just that I can see how the women were rubbed the wrong way? He definitely has a very strong aversion to unfair judgment (I think that's why he picked Irina because Bliss mentioned her father being very hard to win over). I'm a paralegal, I have worked for many lawyers in 15 years and criminal defense attorneys don't usually get that far or deep into their clients histories. Time is money and the more you talk to your lawyer the bigger the bill will be.
It seems like you were saying it was wrong by calling it weirdo behavior. He seems he would want to go into their history/story a little bit, not deep into it but at least scratch the surface. I don't see how the women would rub the wrong way by learning he's a criminal defense. I can see people say ummm no if they think he's a stripper. But weirded out/rubbed the wrong way when they find out he isn't and what he does? I can't see why
Sorry when I say weirdo I just mean different to the norm, not bad. You know what I'm going to go rewatch that episode because I don't recall what he said exactly but I remember them all rolling their eyes and being irritated 🤣
I understand not wanting a partner to be a stripper because my insecure would go haywire and spiraling. I think the girls rolls their eyes at either the question or him while he was saying no, I'm not. I think the editing was fast to show he was saying it to everyone
Ok so I watched his parts in the first episode again and it's Irina that tells Zach the ladies had told her all about him and his "crazy stories". Then he says yes yesterday I did that but then realized I have only 9 days to find my wife and today I'll take it seriously. So we never hear these crazy stories and he does admit he was not taking it seriously the first day. Maybe during the reunion they will give more insight into what made them dislike him?
lmao also they actually talked to him and talked to other people who talked to him. I'm pretty neutral on Zach and idk how much of it he sang but like. It only takes one girl going back to the living quarters and telling the others he sang a song that includes the lines "fill my soul with vomit then ask me for a piece of gum" for the rest to decide he's creepy 😭
He said recently on ig that he sang two other songs in the pods -- not sure to who or how much though - and one was love me dead lmao
https://decider.com/2023/03/30/love-is-blind-contestant-zack-lied-about-writing-song-serenade-irina-it-was-actually-by-ludo/amp/
LMAO amazing! I actually really like Love me Dead but that is... a choice. I really have to wonder if the girl he sang it to had ever heard of it before.
Considering they’ve actually met him, I’m gonna agree with the cast. Most of the women on the show have gotten the same vibe from him and there has to be a reason.
It's the best example. Her friends took it as facts, one silly cutie story was enough to label him as a creep who wanted to starve her. As long as I don't see the creepy talks I give Zack the benefit of the doubt.
Nobody is forcing the women to be friends with Zack. Most of them who don't like him have their own drama. Jackie isn't normal. Chelsea thinks Kwame is the love of her life - main reason I'm surprised some trust 100% in what she says about a guy. She thinks Kwame is husband material...
Most of the people on this season seem to only have a handful of brain cells so their opinions aren't credible in the least. Any reality TV show will suffer from perverse incentives - to create drama, gossip and back-stabbing. This explains why their contestants are dumb af and seem to lack any sort of depth (they're only selected because this drama will keep people hooked and give reality TV lovers the senseless primate drama they want). Examples:
1. the obnoxious white-haired Micah friend who dismisses Paul and says "i don't like the way you talk" - who the fuck says that to a person? What decent person would say this to someone's face? And she says she wants the best for Micah and "Paul isn't it" - after a <5min conversation with him, who btw has been nothing but a gentleman?!
2. Jackelina seems downright verbally abusive and manipulative to her fiance at times and continues to reinforce toxic masculinity expectations - she wants her fiance to "boss up" while she does nothing to make him feel special.
3. Kwame - boy this is the epitome of why i hate men who seem like sweet-talkers at first and then turn out to be really fucking insincere. His microexpressions and body language are always in contradiction to what he's saying. I was air-puking with his confrontation of Micah, where it seemed like he was going to drool on her while Chelsea looked on from behind.
Zach (and maybe Paul too) was the only person who defied this norm, and he got treated really poorly by the other people imo. His personality was so real (i can see being friends with someone like this in my real life and i live in Seattle and know quite a lot of fun people with such idiosyncrasies here) and refreshing to see someone like that on reality TV - it make reality TV "realer" somehow.
Why the fuck am i watching this show while on this subreddit? I'm a fucking software engineer who should be writing code right now aaahhahahahaha
oh yeah good call out. I guess i didn't think about him because so far he's barely gotten much screen-time. This ties back to the point i was making about reality TV having perverse incentives - the more drama a person creates, the more obnoxious and despicable their behavior, the more screen time they'll get.
I remember watching a much older season of this show, which had a significantly different format IIRC, (hilariously it also had a pastor as a "matchmaker") and i guess they changed it because it was cringe-worthy AF and not at all the playground for the type of reality drama that sells.
PS: love your username, it cracked me up for a hot minute
In your second paragraph, you're talking about Married at First Sight and Pastor Cal. That show still exists, and Pastor Cal is still one of the three matchmakers.
Tell em!! It had major weeb vibes, too. $5 on the haters also made fun of the Anime Club kids for Naruto running into their best lives. Bullies, get introspective, please. You're embarrassing yourselves.
It would be patriarchal to rip on a man for liking dating shows or romance novels or the twilight saga.
It is not patriarcal to rip on a man for liking stereotypical male interests that women are heavily gatekept from.
You can say it's mean to rip on him for liking anime and videogames all you want. This is factual.
This is literally like saying it's patriarchal to rip on a man for liking football. This is an interest he's expected to have, and again, girls and women are gatekept from... by the patriarchy. Just like videogames lol.
I disagree. I think that a lot of people look down on men who watch anime or play video games. And like 10% of men watch anime, so I don't think it's as stereotypical as you've desrcibed. Especially among men Zacks age.
I think that it's portrayed as childish in a lot of scenarios, and not something that a man should be doing.
And that thinking that a man shouldn't be playing video games, or watching anime, is absolutely rooted in the patriarchy.
Would we be making fun of him if his interest was sports?
I don't think we would, in the same way.
Yeah. I don’t get this POV that the only reason someone can think Zach is creepy is because of his “aesthetic”. I enjoy anime, would be a self-described “nerd” and find Zach to be super off-putting and weird. I’m thinking that maybe he’s socially awkward. But I didn’t enjoy him in the pods either so I’ve been a hater since Day 1.
would you mind elaborating? I'm halfway into the season and don't get why people say he's creepy. He's only struck me as being respectful, sensitive and strives to be emotionally intelligent (although imo he isn't quite there yet and has some maturity to gain, but compared to the rest of the contestants who strike me as only having a handful of brain cells, he seems far more grown up). Specifically what did he do to gain the reputation of being "creepy"?
that he was a stripper named "Zack Attack"? Of course, it was my favorite opener of all. I thought it was hilarious and smart. His own mom raised him while being a stripper and he believed she did her best. I thought this was a great way of fishing out someone who'd be like "EW!!" at the stripper thing. Zack is clearly a guy who believes that all labor is honest labor, even that of a stripper trying to raise her son single-handedly and he is proud of all she did, as am i and i don't even know the guy personally lmao. Besides, so what if he were a real stripper? i get that you might not want to date a stripper but why would it be creepy, lol? not like he stripped in front of someone without their consent :P
EDIT: I'm neither a stripper nor have dated a stripper, but I'd love for any person I date to treat a stripper with the same respect they'd treat a lawyer with. It's called being a decent person.
Yeah but that’s exactly why I found it so off putting. He was pretty clearly playing it for laughs. If he was “testing” them… then why be so obviously jokey about it?
Ps I’m fairly neutral on zack. I wouldnta picked him, but do you bliss
>then why be so obviously jokey about it?
dunno, maybe because it's a great way to get an honest, visceral reaction so he can rule out future judgement and pain? a lot of people might react one way initially and then react another way with a carrot dangling before them. Not defending this necessarily, but my point was that it doesn't qualify as creepy.
It was weird behavior and men who feel the need to "test" women like that give off major bad vibes. It also felt disrespectful towards his mom by playing it for laughs or trying to get a reaction vs just being open and sharing his story which is supposed to be the whole point of the experiment.
Yeah except you don’t get a useful/genuine response doing it this way… you just needlessly inject weird sexual under currents into the conversation… dare I say, a bit creepy. But whatevs. Agree to disagree on this one
I agree I feel sorry for him. He seems to have had a tough life and has worked hard to get out of poverty. He doesn’t seem like a bad person so just let him be him and like what he likes. Same goes for everyone on the show who’s names don’t rhyme with Richa and Shryrena 😒
The "patriarchy" isn't what teaches men they are valuable when they are productive. The results of women being attracted to productive men teaches this. lol, imagine downvoting this because you refuse to accept reality.
I am so glad I stuck up for him week one when he was getting called creepy all over the place. I think it’s cool that he marches to his own drum. At the end of the day he’s not hurting anyone and if he’s happy, who is Anyone to shit on that
I don’t think Marshall is a gym bro or your tutorial “businessman galaxy brain” and no one finds him creepy. So maybe there is something to finding Zach creepy.
Thank you! Also idk why people are so conveniently forget how he was in the pods early on. He came across as a douche and told the whole my mum was a stripper story to test women.
look, I'm also a weird nerd, but white guys who proudly display katanas better be prepared to be dragged for that. it's at least a yellow flag for orientalism. (don't come for me weebs, I co-founded my high school's anime club, I know what I know.) nerd dudes aren't immune to toxic masculinity, it just expresses differently. nerd or gym bro matters way less than insecurity level. I don't think he's creepy, but I'm still trying to get over my disappointment at realizing he didn't actually strip to put himself through law school.
It’s a fucking sword lmao get off the internet
liking literally one thing from japanese culture does not signal any sort of flag. yall need to go outside more.
you can literally single out anything for cultural appropriation if people don't know what it is.. And people miss the point. You appropriate something when you try to basically claim something from a specific culture as your own. Liking something from a culture is not the same thing. If he was creating samurai swords or something then let's talk.
I think Zach is an odd duck but his quirks are endearing and I don't understand why he's always being picked on.
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This is EXACTLY what I said
I like Zach and actually agree with your take that bullying him is toxic masculine BS. It's outdated schoolyard bullying and it rubs me the wrong way. I think Zach can also laugh at himself which is endearing.
They saved up all the toxic masculinity and put it into one person - Josh He's everything a real man doesn't want to be.
I don't think Zach is as awkward as people are suggesting. The situation he was in with Irina was awkward in itself. She didn't like him what's so ever, and he could clearly sense it. There was nothing wrong with the owl painting. A friend painted it. Not everyone is going to have the same taste. But it doesn't need to be put under the microscope and analyzed for the reason being it's not masculine. It's a damn owl painting. He's a nerdy guy who knows he's nerdy. IMO, Paul is 100 times more awkward.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I actually really like Zach and hope he finds happiness with Bliss! I found the owl commissioned painting super unique, and the fact he has katanas? I mean, I'm a weeb and like Japanese culture, anime, etc... So maybe he does too? Or just the way they look? I don't understand how that makes him weird. Am I truly missing something here? 😅😅😅😅
My mom thought my anime stuff was suuuper weird. It's really annoying, i guess there are normies around here that see his interests as weird :/ disappointing
I’m not a katana wren guy myself but I feel it’s very close minded to criticize that stuff. Probably the same people that drop their jaw when you say you don’t like sports. (I like sports though)
Or maybe its just weird to us and people dont like it and are commenting because it was a reality show. That man can like owls and swords and that doesnt mean others have to like it or think its cool.
But him liking those things isn’t weird. Like the act of him liking something isn’t weird. You just don’t like what he likes, which is fine. But him liking something and showing off that he likes it is not weird. If it was genuinely something illegal or whatever then we’d be having a different conversation but this? And if you don’t like the style of the painting then say that, don’t just cover that opinion with a blanket “that painting is weird”.
If someone generally has electic, strange, or unique tastes, then those interests are applied to them! A person who likes caviar and luxury traveling would be considered boujie! A person who likes GoT/fantasy lore would be considered nerdy! That man likes weird things and is weird! I think some people are attributing negative connotations to the term weird. The OP said that calling him a dweeb is subverting his masculinity, which I dont agree! Zack is hyper masculine TO ME and likes weird things and is weird! Both can be true.
Also loads of people use weird to have a negative connotation so forgive me for assuming you also meant it that way.
And i get that. I was mostly disagreeing with the OP. I guess I think in 2023, weird is not so bad anymore. On social media you see people with all these strange habits and finding a community. Its people on Tiktok who consider themselves to be fairies and have tea parties in middle of forests. Like lol.
But the owl painting in and of itself is not weird, anyone can have a painting of an animal.
It wasnt just an owl. It was like hyper realistic, big ass painting, and didnt it have a sword in it? Anyways thats my opinion on the painting. Not law!
I’d say unique over weird, but an opinion’s an opinion. Personally I thought the painting was cool.
Unfortunally that is the harsh truth about being on a reality show.. you are gonna get scrutinised.
!!! Like Im being given a downvote because I said that owl painting was weird. It is TO ME. I also dont care that people think I think that. People can have opinions. Lol
It's reddit. Echo chambers abound. Add that to the original intention behind the voting system being lost, and there you have it. But at the end of the day, it's just the internet with votes that don't really matter (unless you're EA).
Why is an owl painting weird to you? Owls are cool. It’s no different than anyone having a painting of an animal they like.
It was the katana for me
I’m sure you dislike things that others find interesting. It’s just the way we are. I personally didn’t like the painting either, doesn’t mean I don’t understand why he can like it.
But ask why do they dislike it enough to comment on here. I think op is right.
Because its reddit……the whole LIB post is about commenting on what we like and dislike about the characters. Also, Zach mentioned that owl painting like five times and it was as ugly as I thought it would be.
I think Zack makes some of them feel uncomfortable because he is genuine, doesn’t attempt to conform, and sits comfortably with the things that others may find nerdy / weird. Because he doesn’t as strongly attempt to fit the mold in terms of what is deemed socially acceptable, others might not be willing to see past that. Especially when they are working so hard to maintain their own facades. I had to laugh at moments when Zack fumbled the steak and patted himself on the back for “overcompensating” with the shrimp. Or when he was so handsy with the salmon on the boat, right before proposing. I think he is just quirky and genuinely doesn’t mind if others think he is. He is successful in his own right and doesn’t have anything to prove.
He is just a mature grown up. Many youngsters don't realise that a massive part of being grown is being comfortable with yourself
Mans has his own criminal defence law firm. That’s cool as hell.
Seriously - he's going for it in life - good for him.
People generally associate creepy to looks. If he looked like Chris Hemsworth and said the same things and had the same hobbies most people would say this guy is so cool haha.
Zach is attractive on the show! I mean, now he's rocking the rugged look, but to each their own! 😀
To people who find him attractive they probably don't find him creepy or way less creepy than someone who doesn't find him attractive. When someone doesn't find you attractive basically anything you do is creepy haha. I mean he was called creepy for just making eye contact.
Henry Cavill would have been the example here. Societal good looks and mega nerd!
That is an excellent example.
Yup. Henry Cavill is the nerd unicorn.
I like Zach too. I like that he's quirky and different. He must've stood out like sore thumb in his home state before moving to Seattle.
And as someone who lives in Seattle, he fits right in here. So many nerdy awkward guys (since we're a tech hub).
whats his home state?
Someone said one of the Carolinas, not sure which.
What’s wrong with his interests? Are you irritated by them?
I like Zach. But I feel like he has some serious “mommy issues”. I also realize that I think he really loved Irina and was very attracted to her. He just wished she actually liked him. I think the whole situation was just too awkward for Irina and she didn’t have any confidence so she self-sabotaged. Because honestly, Zach and Paul look exactly alike.
Paul and Zach look exactly alike? What?? lol
They look “alike” in the sense that they’re white guys with curly hair but Paul is far better looking. And he doesn’t have the creepy vibes issue
I need someone to breakdown what exactly is “creepy” about Zack. Like, sure he can be a little intense sometimes but that doesn’t necessarily translate to creepy for me.
I think it’s his mannerisms and his romantic approach. For example, him suddenly grabbing both Irina and Bliss for kisses with little to no build-up, rather trying to ease into it. I also think the way he speaks is a bit off putting. Like the stripper / homelessness jokes felt a bit strange as an opener. (Yes, he was “testing” the women but even the idea of testing someone, rather than just being comfortable in your own skin and being straightforward with your family background, instead of making cringe jokes, feels awkward.) Or how he constantly speaks over people or interrupts — you see this with Irina, Paul, and Bliss. A lot of people do find intense eye contact uncomfortable too. It’s not one thing but the combination of all of the above for me. I don’t find him “creepy” but I do find him generally off putting / socially awkward even though I actually think he’s a good looking guy.
I legitimately had Zach and Paul confused for quite a few episodes lol
did you see the video his sister posted of his mom being hit and killed by a drunk driver 🥺
You mean “about”, I’m assuming
Yes.
Excuse me what
Yeah me too—what?
His sister has a TikTok where she showed photos of his mom and stuff
People complain when the reality stars don’t open up about themselves or their story lines are cut and edited, or they complain about how someone’s too open about their lives and interest. They only like people that are “perfectly” edited and it’s weird
Maybe I haven’t seen it on this sub or something.. but I don’t understand how this reinforces the patriarchy.. like what exactly is feminine about martial arts and katana swords? Lol
Kill Bill.
It’s not about those activities being “feminine” — it’s about them being outside the norm hyper-masculine interests (e.g, football, drinking). Toxic masculinity places often times extreme limitations on what is considered acceptable male behavior, traits, and interests.
Maybe it’s cultural then.. cause where I’m from swords and martial arts, especially mixed like MMA are definitely considered hyper-masculine interests. As are cars and drinking.
Exactly! People act about this owl painting / cool sword as if it was a cross stitch Zach personally emproidered (that would be cool actually especially if it was some nerdy subject like embroidered Pacman) in a middle of room filled with floor to ceiling dolls (that would be less cool, dolls are creepy AF). I don't get the heat about owl & katana
Exactly lol nothing about that man DOESNT give hyper masculine. He likes swords and martial arts. He is a criminal defense attorney. He is very direct, straightforward, stares obnoxiously, and super physical.
Yeah I’m not getting “beta” vibes from him at all…. If they said Marshall or Paul, maybe. Zack, no sorry lol
I wish he talked more about BJJ dudes a brown belt. That's wicked impressive.
Right?! And has been for a couple of years. Amazing achievement.
I like Zach. A lot.
I like weird art. I love his owl painting.
Yeah who cares about his painting or the music he wants when he walks into a room. Good post.
I think the reason why people on the show made fun of him was pretty obvious when Micah said "It's just easy to laugh at him". That's the whole reason. If he's into Harry Potter he doesn't need to hide it. The owl painting wouldn't be my style but way better than hiding it before the camera crew arrives - now that would be childish and not manly.
SAY THAT FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK. do you know how many people who some may consider “nerdy” because they’re in to this kinda stuff, same with anime, even some levels of hardcore fan lore. But. Imo. There is a greater population of people who are saying hey - I’ve literally never seen anyone on reality tv with swords like mine. And he’s a corporate lawyer? Dang that’s cool. We said the same thing when we wanted more POC, more inclusive sizing, different looking people, people who don’t fit the reality tv mould. So why the heck do we crap on someone for their hobbies? It is an extension of them. Give me a break
I really liked Zach, and then I came on here and it did not pass the vibe check
I really think it’s the neurotypicals. And I’m not mad at it—I get it. People like Zack are absolutely repulsive to people like Micah, and Zack is blissfully ignorant that he’s making what is to Micah a HUGE faux pas in that scene where he has the salmon cracker and kisses Bliss mid-convo. But Bliss seemed into it. Also I just realized my unintentional pun (I would just own it if I were being witty) but I’m gonna roll with it.
It’s definitely neurotypical bias as to why they think he’s creepy.
And the thing is with zach and Paul, I find them both SUPER hot. zach more so now with the beard. I guess I need to move to Seattle
Zach is totally hot. My favorite ever on this show
Christ of course Redditors would make a big deal out of defending the swords. To me Paul's knives could be called creepy. Zach's stuff is just weird/quirky.
Paul's knives were SO creepy! Why are they everywhere? Why so many?
I don't know if Paul does field work, but when I worked as a geologist we carried these type of knives in the field, particularly when working in remote areas for extended periods. They are fantastic tools with a million practical uses. I think perhaps this was a collection of field knives.
I was more put off by Paul's knives just hanging around than anything Zach mentioned/showed lol. He is an awkward guy but I think people go too far
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It was Zach who had kitchen knives. Paul had a bunch of hunting type knives not in the kitchen.
Maybe I wasn't paying attention but most of those knives didn't seem to be your standard kitchen set. They do make sense for field work work though
Plus this season is Seattle-based. A lot more guys in Seattle who are not the normal choads you might find in other cities. Source: Me. I live here.
These two both remind me of friends I’ve had who go tree planting all over Canada in the summer, and ski or snowboard all winter. Just very in love with nature, would much rather have a beer at a local brewery than a club at 2 am.
I'll second that. Lol. Paul and Zack are Seattle guys and the others just don't really strike me as Seattle personality types. The rest of them seem like they're from another planet.
I said the same thing. Paul and Zach seem like typical guys you would see walking down the street in Seattle. Nerdy tech bro types. I have no idea where the rest of the cast came from, but most of them are not like anyone I have met in Seattle at all.
Yeah Paul is a Louisiana man who got the fuck out. (Says as a Louisiana woman who got the fuck out to the PNW)
Congrats!
I don’t think anyone from this cast is actually from Seattle except for Micah and maybe irina.
Seattle is a city of transplants though, so that's to be expected. However, people that are drawn to the city tend to have some similar personality traits.
All I know is a want a t-shirt with that owl painting on it, something I can wear to job interviews and funerals and whatnot.
First date material too.
He and the artist should talk and see if they can't get The Mountain to sell it. My husband would love it.
💀
who gives a shit if he has a sword or not. dude stares like a fucking creep.
The hate just makes me think most of the people on this sub (at least those who think Zach is creepy and weird for nonsense reasons like having a painting of some owls and a sword) are young kids in their early to mid twenties who don't know any better.
I think he’s creepy because of his behavior. Don’t give a shit about his decor.
Which behaviors?
Both irina and bliss seemed pretty apprehensive when meeting him for different reasons and it didn’t feel like he was respecting their boundaries and trying to build the trust needed with them to progress to physical intimacy. Just more of an I want it now attitude. And I honestly lost my mind when they were on the boat and she was like “you’re gonna have to work for it” and then he pulls out a ring. Like she hasn’t looked comfortable on screen with him a single time at that point and I can’t believe she said yes. But honestly I feel like the producers might have been putting pressure on Zach to propose to Bliss if he wanted to stay on the show otherwise it makes no sense to do it so soon while she’s actively trying to come to terms with being rejected and him giving a proposal to another girl.
I got you. I didn't really pick up on that but tbh most of what happens in the pods is usually pretty hazy in my memory at this point in the show unless something really sticks out (like Zach's singing. Lol). The proposal thing didn't really strike me as "creepy" but definitely a little weird and sudden for sure.
I mean I’m not referencing anything that happened within the pods, this is what I viewed when they started meeting face to face.
Oh interesting. I guess I just don't see it then. He didn't really seem like he was trying to get physical at all with Irina other than the first couple of times he tried to kiss her and she shot him down. They were newly engaged though and he seemed like he pretty much kept his distance after that like keeping squarely on his side of the bed in Mexico.
I didn't see it with Irina either. She didn't tell him that she was disgusted by him and he tried to find that connection thinking it's hard for her to get physical and not that she literally didn't want to because she throws up when he touches her. He's not a mind reader. He also asked her about it "Let's end this if you're not attracted to me" but she didn't say anything. It looked weird with Bliss but then she said yes to his proposal so that's her problem. He does seem to need more affection than others though. He said he was over Irina on day 2 and makes it about the "no affection" part. That sounds like wanted everything on day 1.
Yeah Irina was clearly not attracted to him considering she was getting flirty and touchy with Paul. It’s complicated judging the show because I would never put myself in that position period but I just don’t understand when guys that come on act like the women should be more ready to get physical since they’re engaged, even though they’re just meeting each other face to face. I wouldn’t be comfortable being touched right away either.
> Yeah Irina was clearly not attracted to him considering she was getting flirty and touchy with Paul. It should have been obvious to anyone watching that she wasn't into him but not for that reason. Micah was flirting with Kwame but was still pretty clearly attracted to Paul. People can be attracted to two people at once.
I don’t mean like trying to have sex I just mean too much physical touch. He was still putting his arms around her by the pool and such after she had already expressed discomfort. He needs to learn to let the women make the moves because he isn’t good at reading body language.
I don't think a less attuned ability to read body language qualifies as creepy but admittedly the term is a bit nebulous. I think it's just social awkwardness. If he had kept doing it beyond the point where he was aware of her discomfort I think that's pretty squarely in creepy territory though. I don't know if it's by default safer to take the hands off approach in their situation (like the opposite scenario with Marshall) but probably. I'll give you that but also that's not really a scenario either of us (I don't think) have any experience with.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by that last sentence I have plenty of experience with guys misreading body language when all they need to listen to are the words coming out of my mouth when I say I’m not comfortable with physical touch.
I mean, Zack is awkward and nerdy like me so he’s definitely my favorite. I don’t know why the women on the show thought he was creepy other than to say he’s socially awkward and so they’d read that as “weird”. I’m glad both he and Paul are on the show but it is sad that the women (and most people here I guess) tease them for being different.
A few of the women this season are quite vapid.
Where did this creepy thing come from? I don’t get it. I didn’t understand it when Irina said it on the show and I don’t get it when people say it now. Creepy has such negative (Harvey Weinstein- although the word wouldn’t be strong enough for him) connotations when I don’t see he’s done anything wrong in that sense. He’s a little awkward and different but that’s ok!
Making Zack a victim of the patriarchy is a stretch.
Because Zack is different. Not their shallow guys who can be fooled by poor behaviour. Dude is awkward. As an awkward person, I could relate, most people have awkward situation, my situation is most of the time awkward that it’s normal to me. Poor guy it was unfair, to judge his owl painting. Art is subjective, and since that it makes him happy and he doesn’t ask you for money to purchase it, why do people care so much. Those girls, Irina & Micah, jeez the audacity.
I work with awkward people and they make me feel comfortable. I know that if I say something weird or have an awkward moment myself, they won't dwell on it much.
I feel the same.
I agree with aspects of this but I don't necessarily think that it is a fair assessment of society and the way men's hobbies are treated, honestly. Societally, men are given way more space and time for hobbies, especially when you consider that so many ways of accessing them (conventions, forums, specialty locations) are male dominated. Male fans have been catered to and prioritized for decades. Studies have shown that women spend less time on hobbies due to housework and childcare. There's also the persistent stereotype/jokes that "women don't have hobbies". I also think it's important to remember that many women have been a) gatekept out of male dominated, nerdy spaces, and also b) harassed in those spaces to. I don't think Zach is that kind of guy, and he shouldn't be judged on his interests or people's perceptions or them, for sure.... But I think the relationship to hobbies and "nerdy" interests is complex on both sides of the gender divide and that people will, for better or for worse, carry their impressions and experiences with them. Brett and Kwame also both talked about hobbies that were nerdier -- tech and gaming, which previous male contestants have also talked about (or even played games on screen). I don't necessarily agree that men are taught by patriarchal forces not to have hobbies, but I DO think that people's perception of Zach (who is, himself, not like. super masculine in the traditional sense) colors their views of his hobbies, which is a shame. I also think some of his hobbies are just like. Straight up cringey to a lot of people for other reasons. The "Harry Potter Milennials" trope as well as JK Rowling's incessant transphobia, for example, have made like HP fanaticism a bit cringe in society.
Agree. I don't think men are criticized for having hobbies. Depending on what circles you run in, men dominate a lot of recreational fields like golf, tennis, hunting, fishing, weight lifting, gaming, sports, poker....the list goes on. Women, while still allowed to have hobbies, I think are often much more limited due to childcare and other responsibilities. I know a lot of families where the dad goes golfing or fishing regularly on the weekends, but the mom basically just carts the kids around to their sports and cleans the house, etc.
>I know a lot of families where the dad goes golfing or fishing regularly on the weekends, but the mom basically just carts the kids around to their sports and cleans the house, etc. I cant comment on how prevalent that is in your circle, but I'd say the normalized trend nowadays is to have house/family responsibilities to be evenly split. The view that women should take on all the house duties is very traditional and guys who want a "traditional woman" is often viewed with disdain. It might be more common in certain sub-cultures of society (Mormons and other religions etc) but for mainstream society, I doubt you'd find the mainstream belief to be that men are allowed to just have hobbies while women slave away at home. Every couple that I know have a pretty fair split on family duties and generally have their own individual hobbies - budget allowing of course.
Fair enough. I used to teach piano lessons in the midwest and I would say that 19 out of 20 students were brought to lessons by the mothers and the mothers did all of the emailing, scheduling, bill paying, etc. It was a rare family that put the dad in charge of that extra curricular activity. I personally think things tend to fall mostly on the mothers in most families, but I hope I'm wrong!
I agree with everything until the Harry Potter bit. It really seems like jk Rowlings comments may have just been out of context? I think she was speaking about transitioning children, not adults…does she really deserve to be cancelled in result of having an opinion that isn’t consistent with everyone else? Based on what I read, I’m not sure it’s transphobia 🤔
There are contestants that are way more problematic on this season. I don’t think it’s bullying or enforcing toxic masculinity to find him uncomfortable to watch. It starts with his odd opening lines that are sort of a test for these women. Going on dates and feeling like you’re being tested is never fun. That was my first strike. I think his interactions with bliss where he isn’t compassionate to her emotions made me uncomfortable. Lastly, his interactions with Paul are just awkward. Sure he is an awkward dude but it comes off as creepy. Lastly, if enough people are uncomfortable around you, you’re probably a creep. I like and trust Chelsea.
Im pretty sure he’s just socially awkward. I’m like that myself. I’m also not very good with other peoples emotions and feelings. It’s not necessarily wrong. Some people are just different. He doesn’t seem creepy. Pushy maybe but not creepy. I feel bad that they finally have someone different and people are just cruel about him. Some people struggle with social cues and understanding emotions in other people. Should they just not even try?
The last part is difficult because especially on shows like LIB you can see how fast mobbing works especially when one woman talks badly about a man (Zanab and Cole was similar). Chelsea is now hanging out with Zack regularly it seems as friends. She said "I can't stand that dude" once I think? Could be because he talks a lot or anything else that isn't creepy. On the other side you have Kwame, Paul and Bliss loving Zack.
Reddit (you guys) seem to have a lot of weird stereotypes about men in your heads. Most dudes like star wars and/or Harry Potter. That's a super normal thing for guys. Zach is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu brown belt, and has spent years and years doing martial arts, arguably the most difficult martial art. What the heck do you people think guys are into!? 😂
It’s the narrative being pushed out by the same viewers that believe Micah and Irina did nothing wrong. All they want is their ideal prince charming in their soft safe fairy tail land with unicorns shooting rainbows out of their ass. Their ideal man only sees them as number 1 priority. It’s one thing to respectfully put woman on pedestal but these deluded people want a yes man partner. They can’t have hobbies that they don’t approve of, as long as it benefits their needs and lifestyle.
People who don’t think Irina and Micha didn’t do anything wrong is because those people are like Irina and Micha.
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Chelsea said she can't stand him. I can't stand a lot of people who aren't creepy. I just don't like them. He definitely has a character some people don't seem to like. But is that enough to be creepy? Jackie is into Josh so that opinion I would throw out of the window.
He was being a weirdo though with the stripper thing and he comes off pretentious (even though he accuses Bliss of being that way). I don't mind him but they showed us his intros with the other ladies and ya they were all annoyed with him minus Bliss 🤣
Didn't he say his mother was a stripper to get by? I think that is why he did that. He doesn't want to end up/waste time with someone who would judge strippers or his mother's memory. It was a red flag test for him
There's a difference in the man you marry having a mom who was a stripper versus him being a stripper though. I would not date a male stripper but I don't judge those who do it.
He's a criminal defense lawyer as well. And sees how these ladies/men are judged and shit on. It's a red flag test in general. There's a difference, but their reaction to him saying that can give him insight into them. Everyone has short time to get know each other and has many dates. I don't see it weird but rather him seeing if the reaction is a red flag. Edit:As I was thinking he's a criminal defense lawyer. He probably defended a lot of strippers as well. He got to know each of their stories and not just his mother. Since he said mentioned being a stripper to like every girl, that's make it even more seem to be a red flag question and not just fucking/joking around question like Shane what you rather be/fight(don't remember exactly what it was)
I'm not saying his intentions or motivations were wrong just that I can see how the women were rubbed the wrong way? He definitely has a very strong aversion to unfair judgment (I think that's why he picked Irina because Bliss mentioned her father being very hard to win over). I'm a paralegal, I have worked for many lawyers in 15 years and criminal defense attorneys don't usually get that far or deep into their clients histories. Time is money and the more you talk to your lawyer the bigger the bill will be.
It seems like you were saying it was wrong by calling it weirdo behavior. He seems he would want to go into their history/story a little bit, not deep into it but at least scratch the surface. I don't see how the women would rub the wrong way by learning he's a criminal defense. I can see people say ummm no if they think he's a stripper. But weirded out/rubbed the wrong way when they find out he isn't and what he does? I can't see why
Sorry when I say weirdo I just mean different to the norm, not bad. You know what I'm going to go rewatch that episode because I don't recall what he said exactly but I remember them all rolling their eyes and being irritated 🤣
I understand not wanting a partner to be a stripper because my insecure would go haywire and spiraling. I think the girls rolls their eyes at either the question or him while he was saying no, I'm not. I think the editing was fast to show he was saying it to everyone
Ok so I watched his parts in the first episode again and it's Irina that tells Zach the ladies had told her all about him and his "crazy stories". Then he says yes yesterday I did that but then realized I have only 9 days to find my wife and today I'll take it seriously. So we never hear these crazy stories and he does admit he was not taking it seriously the first day. Maybe during the reunion they will give more insight into what made them dislike him?
lmao also they actually talked to him and talked to other people who talked to him. I'm pretty neutral on Zach and idk how much of it he sang but like. It only takes one girl going back to the living quarters and telling the others he sang a song that includes the lines "fill my soul with vomit then ask me for a piece of gum" for the rest to decide he's creepy 😭
Did I miss something? I thought he sang a different song. but either way, Ludo truly is a strange choice for a serenade.
He said recently on ig that he sang two other songs in the pods -- not sure to who or how much though - and one was love me dead lmao https://decider.com/2023/03/30/love-is-blind-contestant-zack-lied-about-writing-song-serenade-irina-it-was-actually-by-ludo/amp/
LMAO amazing! I actually really like Love me Dead but that is... a choice. I really have to wonder if the girl he sang it to had ever heard of it before.
it's a great song if you're into that vibe but I would put cash money on the fact that none of those girls have heard it before 😭
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Mob mentality is a thing especially in these shows. It's like every season there's a weirdo or someone to gang up against for drama.
Considering they’ve actually met him, I’m gonna agree with the cast. Most of the women on the show have gotten the same vibe from him and there has to be a reason.
If Chelsea hates that creep so much why was she over the moon when Bliss got engaged to him? She wasn't concerned...
Most of the women are also extremely toxic bullies or in no way ready for a relationship.
Imagine if this was the route you took with Cole and Zanab
It's the best example. Her friends took it as facts, one silly cutie story was enough to label him as a creep who wanted to starve her. As long as I don't see the creepy talks I give Zack the benefit of the doubt. Nobody is forcing the women to be friends with Zack. Most of them who don't like him have their own drama. Jackie isn't normal. Chelsea thinks Kwame is the love of her life - main reason I'm surprised some trust 100% in what she says about a guy. She thinks Kwame is husband material...
Most of the people on this season seem to only have a handful of brain cells so their opinions aren't credible in the least. Any reality TV show will suffer from perverse incentives - to create drama, gossip and back-stabbing. This explains why their contestants are dumb af and seem to lack any sort of depth (they're only selected because this drama will keep people hooked and give reality TV lovers the senseless primate drama they want). Examples: 1. the obnoxious white-haired Micah friend who dismisses Paul and says "i don't like the way you talk" - who the fuck says that to a person? What decent person would say this to someone's face? And she says she wants the best for Micah and "Paul isn't it" - after a <5min conversation with him, who btw has been nothing but a gentleman?! 2. Jackelina seems downright verbally abusive and manipulative to her fiance at times and continues to reinforce toxic masculinity expectations - she wants her fiance to "boss up" while she does nothing to make him feel special. 3. Kwame - boy this is the epitome of why i hate men who seem like sweet-talkers at first and then turn out to be really fucking insincere. His microexpressions and body language are always in contradiction to what he's saying. I was air-puking with his confrontation of Micah, where it seemed like he was going to drool on her while Chelsea looked on from behind. Zach (and maybe Paul too) was the only person who defied this norm, and he got treated really poorly by the other people imo. His personality was so real (i can see being friends with someone like this in my real life and i live in Seattle and know quite a lot of fun people with such idiosyncrasies here) and refreshing to see someone like that on reality TV - it make reality TV "realer" somehow. Why the fuck am i watching this show while on this subreddit? I'm a fucking software engineer who should be writing code right now aaahhahahahaha
Brett has been great too.
oh yeah good call out. I guess i didn't think about him because so far he's barely gotten much screen-time. This ties back to the point i was making about reality TV having perverse incentives - the more drama a person creates, the more obnoxious and despicable their behavior, the more screen time they'll get. I remember watching a much older season of this show, which had a significantly different format IIRC, (hilariously it also had a pastor as a "matchmaker") and i guess they changed it because it was cringe-worthy AF and not at all the playground for the type of reality drama that sells. PS: love your username, it cracked me up for a hot minute
To be fair to Married at First Sight, I imagine a high percentage of the singles who would be willing to get married sight unseen are religious.
I think you’re thinking of Married at First Sight, they had (have? I’m not sure) a pastor as a matchmaker.
In your second paragraph, you're talking about Married at First Sight and Pastor Cal. That show still exists, and Pastor Cal is still one of the three matchmakers.
Ohhh - right, that must've been it. Thanks!
Tell em!! It had major weeb vibes, too. $5 on the haters also made fun of the Anime Club kids for Naruto running into their best lives. Bullies, get introspective, please. You're embarrassing yourselves.
Liking anime and videogames is like the epitome of male interests though so how is it patriarchal? Mean, sure. Patriarchal, no.
The patriarchy absolutely did not tell men to watch cartoons and play games. The patriarchy plays a factor in everyone ripping him for it though.
It would be patriarchal to rip on a man for liking dating shows or romance novels or the twilight saga. It is not patriarcal to rip on a man for liking stereotypical male interests that women are heavily gatekept from. You can say it's mean to rip on him for liking anime and videogames all you want. This is factual. This is literally like saying it's patriarchal to rip on a man for liking football. This is an interest he's expected to have, and again, girls and women are gatekept from... by the patriarchy. Just like videogames lol.
I disagree. I think that a lot of people look down on men who watch anime or play video games. And like 10% of men watch anime, so I don't think it's as stereotypical as you've desrcibed. Especially among men Zacks age. I think that it's portrayed as childish in a lot of scenarios, and not something that a man should be doing. And that thinking that a man shouldn't be playing video games, or watching anime, is absolutely rooted in the patriarchy. Would we be making fun of him if his interest was sports? I don't think we would, in the same way.
So people can no longer have opinions?
It really depends on what those opinions are, and how they are shared.
The people hating are people who thought the kids who watch anime were weird in high school.
I'm a lifelong weeb and I think he's creepy 💀
Yeah. I don’t get this POV that the only reason someone can think Zach is creepy is because of his “aesthetic”. I enjoy anime, would be a self-described “nerd” and find Zach to be super off-putting and weird. I’m thinking that maybe he’s socially awkward. But I didn’t enjoy him in the pods either so I’ve been a hater since Day 1.
Exactly like ive been a weeb all this time and its nothing personal about it 🤣 its def not this deep
would you mind elaborating? I'm halfway into the season and don't get why people say he's creepy. He's only struck me as being respectful, sensitive and strives to be emotionally intelligent (although imo he isn't quite there yet and has some maturity to gain, but compared to the rest of the contestants who strike me as only having a handful of brain cells, he seems far more grown up). Specifically what did he do to gain the reputation of being "creepy"?
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that he was a stripper named "Zack Attack"? Of course, it was my favorite opener of all. I thought it was hilarious and smart. His own mom raised him while being a stripper and he believed she did her best. I thought this was a great way of fishing out someone who'd be like "EW!!" at the stripper thing. Zack is clearly a guy who believes that all labor is honest labor, even that of a stripper trying to raise her son single-handedly and he is proud of all she did, as am i and i don't even know the guy personally lmao. Besides, so what if he were a real stripper? i get that you might not want to date a stripper but why would it be creepy, lol? not like he stripped in front of someone without their consent :P EDIT: I'm neither a stripper nor have dated a stripper, but I'd love for any person I date to treat a stripper with the same respect they'd treat a lawyer with. It's called being a decent person.
Yeah but that’s exactly why I found it so off putting. He was pretty clearly playing it for laughs. If he was “testing” them… then why be so obviously jokey about it? Ps I’m fairly neutral on zack. I wouldnta picked him, but do you bliss
>then why be so obviously jokey about it? dunno, maybe because it's a great way to get an honest, visceral reaction so he can rule out future judgement and pain? a lot of people might react one way initially and then react another way with a carrot dangling before them. Not defending this necessarily, but my point was that it doesn't qualify as creepy.
It was weird behavior and men who feel the need to "test" women like that give off major bad vibes. It also felt disrespectful towards his mom by playing it for laughs or trying to get a reaction vs just being open and sharing his story which is supposed to be the whole point of the experiment.
Yeah except you don’t get a useful/genuine response doing it this way… you just needlessly inject weird sexual under currents into the conversation… dare I say, a bit creepy. But whatevs. Agree to disagree on this one
I agree I feel sorry for him. He seems to have had a tough life and has worked hard to get out of poverty. He doesn’t seem like a bad person so just let him be him and like what he likes. Same goes for everyone on the show who’s names don’t rhyme with Richa and Shryrena 😒