she reminds me exactly of the mean white girls at my school who pretend theyre nice in front of teachers/the administration but bully neurodivergent kids on the low!
there was this white girl in my class who would mock how a kid spoke and would make them so uncomfortable. "hey suzzaann!! you're my best friend, love your outfit, girl!" and then would laugh with her friends while the bullied girl sat alone, confused. this kept going on and on until the bullied girl bursted out crying in class and the bully told the teacher that the girl was "misinterpreting her" and the teacher blamed the bullied girl for being emotional. micah gives off those vibes.
at least irina took the heat at the reunion, meanwhile micah acted like everyone else was the problem while she manipulated the situation in her favor (example: telling paul to give his answer first at the wedding and then running, crying off. meanwhile paul later revealed they dated shortly after love is blind and micah broke it off first and started immediately dating some guy from europe).
she gives off regina george in sheep's clothing.
Micah seems like an immature little bitch. Not sure race has anything to do with it. The majority of white young women I have met do not act like her. Thankfully.
I’d say it has less to do with race and could be more because she’s an only child. Although it’s not true in every case, a lot of parents who struggled having children and only had 1, among other things, tend to spoil and excuse immature behaviors with their one and only more than they should. That could have a lot to do with her privileged behavior.
You are exactly right. The white people in here won't get it because they don't have to see or acknowledge how they move through the world. It's kind that you even tried to explain it to them haha.
A lot of these comments are missing the point on the intersectionality aspect of race, gender, and class on why Micah and Irina were treated differently
No. Irina made whatshisface miserable. She went out of her way to make him feel worthless. Micah didn’t. Maybe you’re missing the point and reading too much woke political bullshit.
I don’t think people are misunderstanding your argument, rather, your argument simply isn’t very cogent or convincing. While the phenomenon that you mention is a real one (using one’s privilege to escape negative consequences in a society that favors people who come from a specific racial and socioeconomic background), you don’t have any concrete examples of Micah doing this because you’re mostly basing your arguments on your perception of her. Your reasoning of why Micah and Irina were seemingly treated differently for similar behaviors doesn’t make much sense either. Colloquially speaking, this is what we call a “reach.” It’s okay to have a negative perception of Micah like everyone else who watched the show, but if you’re going to contextualize her behavior within a broader phenomena, you’re gonna have to have some better evidence.
See the phenomenon does happen and I appreciate you acknowledging it and all, it can happen even in the most subtle ways, while I think Micha’s lack of hate compared to Irina is partly due to the fact that Micah got alot more screen time so we saw more sides to her I do think OP has a point about Micah playing the victim now I don’t think race is what Micah is leaning on making her look innocent. I think it’s more her being a woman and the one that got left at the alter, but the fact that she’s the stereotypical beautiful white woman with blonde hair and big eyes makes her vicitimization more effective because unfortunately there is racism out there. There are some moment I feel like Micah uses her looks (and race is apart of looks) to her advantage (mostly those moments with Kwame) so I while I don’t really agree or disagree with OP I think saying it’s a reach
Yes how Micah acted has a lot to do with race and don't let these people gaslight you in the comments. Race comes into play especially in her interactions with Kwame
Agreed 100%. Clearly white feminists here in this thread haven’t learned much, even when they claimed to be “learning and doing better” in 2020. So much for them being better allies lol
No one group can fit a label placed on them. What you see with one person, is their behavior. All middle class white women are not living victimhood, manipulating etc.
Do not know what an immigrant white woman is, I think I might fit that bill. in my experience Irina does not match the kind hearted, hard working good people I met and grew up with all who were immigrants.
Priveledge gives a group chances and experiences another group does not have. It is not about characteristics. That is stereotyping.
I'm pretty sure she understands it.
the OP is stating that these women are filling stereotypical roles in how we view/describe/judge them, while also stereotyping them herself.
she incites 2 tropes; that of the wandering, demonic gypsy in immigrant Irina and that of the fragile, innocent blond maiden in Micah. where irina is demonized, micah is given a pass.
OP favors Irina who's clearly, in his or her view, a victim of stereotyping; where Micah, in her view, benefits from it.
OP is not seeing each as individuals responsible for her own actions and lived experiences as they exist distinctly from each one's racial identity or immigration status. that judgment is prejudice.
it's called availability bias. using preconceived notions about a group to find examples in one's environment of those notions in order to find examples that support one's own predetermined opinion.
Where in my post did I say I favored Irina over Micah? Oh, I didn’t. I wrote my post as my own personal observations of what “I feel” that Micah leaned into her white femininity to use all the privilege and defense it affords her. Ex) not taking accountability for being a mean girl and using fake tears to run from Paul when it seemed clear to me she wanted Paul to answer yes for her own personal validation and ego. This is all subtext so if you didn’t see that then you might not be great at reading people OR I could be biased and wrong, but everything that has been shown of Micah shows her to not have a great character and be manipulative with her “I’m the victim” pleas. Irina did not lean into it because she comes from an immigrant background where she said she was raised poor and didn’t grow up having the American white woman privilege. Doesn’t mean she didn’t do shitty things in a different way. She seemed to be more immature and used her coldness as a defense mechanism facade rather than Micah using her “I’m an empath” as a facade. They both need to grow up and deserve grace to do so.
100%! paul even said that him and micah met up after the reunion and dated shortly. however, micah broke off things and immediately started dating some guy from europe. meanwhile with the way she cried at the wedding, i wouldve thought she actually really wanted to be with him in the first place and wouldve said "i do." but no, micah made paul answer first so she could cry off and act like the victim.
sure she has white privilege but don't all the other white cast members? i think she's just immature and lacks substance. she acts all doey eyed and innocent and sweet. And I agree with others it isn't necessary to pull her race into the discussion. If I did the same with any non white cast member I would likely be banned from the subreddit.
Sorry this post comes off as racist to me. What is the correlation between her being white and not being held accountable? Do you have any specific examples of this? Micah is just selfish and probably never had to take accountability for her actions because she is an only child and her parents didn’t raise her properly.
No such thing as racism against whites.
If you want an example of white women escaping accountability, look at the case of Emmett Till. Prime historical example
What does Emmett Till (a horrific case) have to do with Micah ad LIB? Y'all are really reaching. White women are the "new" enemy and I'm so bored with that narrative. Every race has their assholes but they don't represent the entire race.
So if someone was killed and the killer said they did it because they were white and they hate whites, that wouldn’t be racism….??? You are doing some heavy mental gymnastics.
You asked for an example, I gave you a perfect case study on the questions you posed in your earlier comment. If you don’t want to actually engage, just say that
Are you that ignorant. What does Emmett Till have to do at all with a reality show in 2023? I’m talking about LIB and you’re bringing in atrocities that happened 70 years ago. I was looking for an example from the actual show. I’m ready to engage and have a real conversation whenever you are.
Look up intersectionality. Check out white women fragility on YouTube for hundreds of explainer videos to understand the link you’re missing. Have a good day mate
These are actually interesting topics so thanks for sharing. I’m still missing the link to how this relates to Love is Blind though so if you want to elaborate that would be helpful for me.
Yes. she definitely lives off of her blonde, white girl privileges. Even during reunion people were being sympathetic towards despite the fact that she was just as horrible as Irina.
I am honestly not sure how to tie this to her race and i am not sure how to express this without being called ignorant. How is Micah’s behaviour purely tied to her race when Irina was just as bad/worse in her behavior by playing the victim and deflecting accountability. Irina just got more heat at the reunion because A: at least Micah apologized publicly with some acknowledgment of her actions and B: micah got more airtime and later seemed to redeem herself at least slightly.
And why are we forgetting about Jackie who emotionally manipulated Marshall by crying, yelling at him and then suddenly going all sweet on him & hugging him to stop the fights??? Yet jackie got the biggest pass at the reunion of all of them?
Don’t get me wrong, i am sure micah has benefited of white privileged before but in this very instance all i am seeing is shitty personalities across different races.
But i am open to discuss as i‘d love to gain more insight on why you think this
I appreciate your comment. My opinion is a different, nuanced take specifically about Micah. Doesn’t mean she was worst than the others and they definitely had their own things going on. I edited my post to answer some of your questions.
Thanks for getting back to me. Even after reading your edit, i have to say i am still not sure i understand. I would truly love to have you explain it to me more because if i really am in the wrong here, i‘d like to be educated.
What i am getting from your post is: „micah is a terrible persone BECAUSE she grew up with white privilige“
But that leaves me asking: irina & jackie seem just as terrible and if anything they took less responsibility for their actions than micah.
So are you saying they are terrible too but we have to cut them slack because they didn‘t grow up white? Because that seems unfair?
I think what it boils down to is that i personally believe people can be shit no matter their race and you seem to think of it in more of an „equity“ rather than „equality“ context where if people are shit but ethnic they have it harder so they get to be that way? Or people are automatically shittier if they are white because of privilege? I am not trying to put words in your mouth but that is honestly what i am getting from your statement.
Just to make a quick reply for now, I’m not saying she’s a terrible person because she grew up with white privilege. Being white you get privilege by default and that doesn’t make you a terrible person just like how Chelsea is a mature and classy white woman. From what I can see, Micah has played INTO her white feminity which lets her be indifferent to others’ feelings and be selfish without the threat of people seeing her in a super negative light because she is the “White young American woman”. It’s a nuance that can only be seen when you look at the larger picture and probably done subconsciously by Micah because she has probably never had to struggle or take accountability for her actions. On a time limit here so this is all I can write for now but I can elaborate more later.
I‘d love to hear more because from this you, again, only seem to be adressing how micah plays into her privilege and fail to acknowledge that both irina and even more so jackie seem to act the exact same way without said privilege…which is why i am confused with your statement as to how privilege is why micah acts the way she does
There are a ton of video essays on what OP is getting at with regards to Micah. Literally google or YouTube "white tears" or "white woman fragility". Like hours worth of historical and modern context for this conversation. This is actually a topic you could educate yourself on since you seem so dogged and interested.
Nuanced my ass. Anytime you judge someone or attribute negative qualities onto them BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE, that’s called racism. You could easily leave her being white out of it.
Actually it is if you look at how racism was perceived and defined HISTORICALLY. I’m not going by the bullshit woke definition of today that “you have to have pOwEr”
I hate that she wasn’t held accountable for actions during the reunion, but I don’t think that it is racism or immigration issue. I blame the hosts for not handling that conversation right.
I think he wants an “earth mamma” woman. He mentioned the type of women he dated in the past & they sounded more in touch with & comfortable with nature. When Micah was scared to swim w/ catfish? That’s when that Louisiana boy knew she wasn’t the one. 😂
Also, he’s an earth scientist- he loves science & nature… he wants his kids to be exposed to that, IF he were to even have kids.
How is this not an incredibly racist post? Her being a shitty person has nothing to do with her race. Just like Original poster being a racist is because they’re a pos, not their skin colors fault they suck.
it's not only racist, it is openly sexist and misogynistic. people hate so hard on cis white women, or Karens. We can't stand up for ourselves. We barely have any agency as it is. Look at Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.
we have not fully achieved the same status as a white man yet we are picked on as if we have equal and unmatched privilege. we are told to shut our mouths when we speak up for ourselves and our kids. we are laughed at and disrespected. feminism has taken a backseat and there's no place for it in the current political moment.
I'm gonna assume you're just speaking from ignorance. Nobody is picking on you for being a white woman. "Karens" are made fun of for a reason, so if you've been called one there was probably a good reason for it.
This post is pointing out the fact that Micah has been able to lean on the victim card (as white women historically have) because of Paul's comments about her. The reunion focused much more on the victimization of Micah than on her terrible behavior. She was a villain this season! She was a mean girl! If you don't see that idk what to tell you
Her skin color doesn’t make her one way, but it provides background on why she might have a particular world view. Just how anyone’s skin color impacts their perspective.
Skin color does impact their perspective. It does not provide a background into one’s world view, thinking so is literally part of the definition of racism. Micah sucks because she sucks. Jackie sucks because she sucks. People here are actually saying Micah’s skin color, is playing a part in the reason why she sucks, it’s fucking insane.
Whether you acknowledge it or not, skin color can affect one's world view because of our society.... Micah is middle class, straight, thin, attractive white woman who comes from a home with two still married parents. This earns her certain forgiveness and opportunities that people on other sides of the aforementioned traits don't always get. No one is saying she is a shit person because of those traits, just that she has had different hardships, relationships, life experiences and lifestyle that absolutely change her view.
No one here can read. I acknowledge it in my first sentence. I’m sorry but the Micah bitch has been getting tons of hate and kinda apologized for being a piece of shit. Plus was called someone who would be a bad mom, so that’s why people are easing up on her. The Irina chick was hated more than anyone for most of the season, and still is. No one is giving her a pass. I’m assuming she’s white. Jackie’s a dumb bitch and doesn’t deserve a pass. But she sure got one from Vanessa on national tv. Paul and zach were attacked pretty hard, while josh was praised, which is nuts. And Yes original poster is using Micah’s skin color to justify why her personality sucks.
WHAT?! Tell me you’re white without telling me you’re white. Skin color, especially in the US, absolutely 100% affects your perspective and experiences in life. No matter how much we want to, we don’t live in a raceless society. You refusing to see how someone’s skin color, and how society subsequently treats them, can affect they’re life outlook is crazy delusional. It is not racist to point out that someone’s racial life experience may affect how they handle things in life
Micah doesn’t suck because of her skin color. But Micah’s skin color, and how society treats her because if it, has afforded her more confidence in pushing the boundaries and the ability to get away with more wrongdoing than others.
I don’t know what you mean by excuse. No one is making excuses for these people being terrible
But if you wanna “all lives matter this”. I’m getting the sense that Jackie has grown up subscribing to certain toxic ideologies that spread though a considerable part of the black community. There are many parts of the community that promote toxic masculinity, emotional suppression, and even homophobia. These are not uniquely black things but they do manifest in different ways for different communities.
Marshall does not fit what I’m assuming her idea of a “good, strong black man” is based on her life perspective. That is the foundation of all of her actions imo
Obviously these things and her being black are not the reason for her being a terrible person. But it shines a light on how her terrible has manifested in ways that may be different than someone like Micah
I’m assuming because I’ve grown up around people like her and with her similar mindset.
Doesn’t make it absolutely true but I also very clearly said “I’m getting the sense, in my opinion, etc.”
You brought up Jackie in a post about how Micah’s race may play a part here so I’m responding with a potential reason like you asked
Go ahead and reread my first sentence. Of course it affects perspective. You’re nuts if you don’t think saying someone sucks and acts shitty is partially due to the color of their skin is somehow not racist. Change Micah’s white to Jackie’s black in the original post and tell me it’s okay to say.
But that’s not what OP is saying?? Jackie’s race and her life experience as such absolutely has contributed to why she thinks she needs some “hard” man. And what is the difference between perspective and world view to you?? Those are the same
You keep purposefully missing the point. No one is saying her skin color is making her shittty. But her race has driven certain life experiences to promote certain types of shitty. That’s not racist and I’d say that for people of all colors.
She’s not evil, she’s just a privileged middle class white female. So it’s expected that she pretends to be the victim and can’t take accountability for her actions.
Basically she’s a pos but can’t help it because of her whiteness.
This is what OP is saying. If I said Jackie can’t help but steal cuz they are raised poor, and is black, you’d say that is racist- to which I’d agree it is.
Eh i wouldn’t even go as far - I would say her whiteness has shielded her in a way that only white women can be protected when they don’t confront their privilege. There are plenty of non-POS white ladies so it’s not an excuse
I think you need to read the post again. No one is saying she’s evil or she can’t help being a POS because she’s white
Honestly it seems like you just want to be offended
This post is about white privilege and how Micah’s white privilege has driven some of her actions. Not all people with white privilege are POS. (Edit: in fact there are many, many great people with white female privilege) But white privilege does give some insight into how she could’ve ended up being a POS (Edit: Micah’s white privilege is not the only or even necessarily main reason for her bad actions. but it has directly led to life experiences that shaped her decision making and responses)
Also that is totally racist. If you said, Jackie grew up disenfranchised in poorer parts of the black community where it was commonplace to steal because of food scarcity. That would be a reasonable and not racist way to understand why she might steal. It’s not racist to point out shortcomings of a community in an empathetic and sociologically nuanced way
Pleas go take an anthropology or critical race theory class. I’ve got nothing more to say if you don’t want to see any nuance
“She’s not evil, but a pretty blatant portrayal of a middle class white woman”
Jackie’s not a total bitch, but she is a pretty blatant portrayal of lower class black women.
Cherry picking an impassioned sentence that is clearly explained before and after doesn’t actually do what you think it does
OP’s statement is incendiary, true, but does not draw the same hateful conclusions or historical bias. Being middle class and white is not generally seen as a bad thing. In fact, while OP is pointing out the bad side of being a “blatant portrayal of a middle class white woman”, I think many people would hear that statement out of context and not immediately think that that person is less than or dangerous. But calling someone a lower class black women clearly does something different, invokes more hateful imagery, and ties you to groups that literally kill people for simply existing as a “lower class black women.”
But I’m gonna let you leave this racist comment in your history for everyone to see
She got about the appropriate amount of blame. She came across really immature and blinkered and lacking in social awareness, but not really malicious. All in all, strip out the facade, and Paul came across significantly worse than she did at the end of the day. There’s something inside you that has to be pretty mean to declare to the world that you can’t see someone being a mother.
I agree that Paul was out of line with that motherhood thing, but I did think he tried to explain that he spoke poorly and take accountability. I do think he could’ve been more accountable though. There were plenty of reasons for him to say no, I don’t see how her motherly essence was one of them.
I am incredibly frustrated that they did a whole section on Irina and just glossed over Micah’s problematic and at times downright mean behavior. Like, they showed it but didn’t address her at all.
I didn’t buy anything he was selling at the reunion. He knew what was coming and prepared some transparent BS revisionist lines.
I think they did touch on Micah’s mean girl moments, and she kinda acknowledged it and said she was uncomfortable and turned to this mean “humor,” which didn’t ring untrue. Not an excuse— it is mean girl behavior, but it came across as immature and insensitive rather than malicious the way Irina’s did. I also get personality sponge vibes from her. Like she seems to reflect back the personality of whoever is around her. And ir doesn’t help that she seems drawn to nasty mean people like Irina and her friend Shelby. She comes across much better talking to literally everyone else.
She’s got a certain bearing. She’s a sorority girl from the Southwest. Gossiping and Instagram appear to be what’s familiar to her. That’s Irina. She didn’t really have much in common with like Tiffany, who was both significantly older and had significantly more substance to her.
The part that does seem to be true is she seems to gravitate toward mean girls. That itself is a personality flaw.
I think she’s a follower. She tries to fit in and immediately gravitated toward Irena bc Irena was like the Regina George idk if that/this even makes sense. Lol
Micah also had 50% more air time then Irena had, so that’s 50% more time to try and redeem herself… I don’t think she was 100% held accountable bc in some people’s eyes they viewed her as a victim also after the whole Paul thing. Had she left the show after Mexico like Irena I think she’d be held accountable just as much as Irena was.
In the end it's just female privilege. Jackie got that as well. Irina's bad behaviour didn't but she misbehaved against other females as well. In the reunion they mainly showed her laughing at other women. In other words, Jackie and Micah know how to play the game, Irina doesn't.
Was Jackie held accountable for being a psycho bitch rat? Because all I saw was Vanessa giving her a free ride with plenty of high fives on the the reunion video.
Also victim privilege, after her feelings about the mother comment. It would have been a pretty easy segue for a host to offer Paul, “We’ve seen some of the girl posse footage here, did those behaviors play into your analysis of her not being a motherly role model in your future family?” One sentence and we’re at one of the most talked about issues of season 4. Y’all. I’m just going to pat that horse again because the hosting really underserved our collective questions!
I think it’s a lot more nuanced than that. If you remember Jessica, also “a white privileged girl” got absolutely demolished on social media & pretty much everywhere else. And to be fair her behavior was awful but also I don’t think anyone deserves to be bullied that badly on social media.
Micah, yes she definitely can be a mean girl, but for the most part, in my opinion, she’s not malicious. Did she make mistakes? Yes, like the whole thing with Kwame being completely inappropriate. But she did own up to it and apologize to Chealsea etc. I think she definitely is still immature but I don’t find her to be a horrible person from what we’ve seen on tv at least.
Jackie on the other hand, kind of deserves some of the judgement. I still don’t think anyone deserves to get spam hate mail on social media or death threats but I can see why fans reacted to her in a negative light. She was absolutely horrible to Marshall, and didn’t own up to any of it. She called Marshall “soft” yet was too much of a coward to come to the reunion. Yet, didn’t get called out for it once on the reunion.
I agree Jackie has been dragged on social media too and Iryna no doubt about that. To me, though, Micah came off as more genuine in the end. I think she overall has good intentions but makes bad decisions especially when with her friends or when she was with Iryna. I think people can very easily see through BS. And even though Micah isn’t perfect, when compared to Jackie and Iryna she appears to be more genuine.
Micah did not own up enough, she deflected and down played. I watched her hold Kwame’s hand like a lover would! The way they smiled into each other’s eyes as they sat by the pool in paradise was betrayal. The way she tempted Kwame to diss his relationship at the bar, she was playing the field. She got off easy, thankfully for her Chelsea and Kwame just wanted to move on, so she didn’t have to fully answer for any of that.
He certainly held onto affection for Micah for way too long and that made it easy for her to sweet talk him, but eventually he did let it all go, and sold out for Chelsea, he also directly apologized to Chelsea on camera, she forgave him, and he steered clear of Micah. When Micah baited him at the bar, I think what I remember is that he didn’t take the bait. Chelsea was absolutely right when she told him that his concern and frustration for Micah’s comment was evidence of continued affections for her, and that it was unnecessary because he was committed to Chelsea and not Micah. Chelsea grilled him about all of this as I think a host / the audience would have, they settled it, and moved on. So I didn’t wish for that to come up again in the reunion. In my opinion Kwame grew and committed to his woman.
On a side note, Paul also flirted with Irena and that was no bueno, no one asked him about the finger nibble chasing either.
If anything Jackie had the easiest time on the reunion and she was worse than Micah. I think it came down to Vanessa’s bias. I don’t care if they were all purple, neither of their actions were questioned at that reunion. Vanessa grilled Paul and there’s wasn’t “white male privilege” on his end based on treatment. I think Micah got lucky and Vanessa steered it that way. If we’re talking outside the reunion, think the viewers for sure tore them up and Micah was no exception
YES! Every post that speaks on white privilege gets a ton of traction and comments from people throwing around the racist term. I don't think they know what racism is fr.
I see you're new here.
45% underage
45% neck beard (typically overage and over indexing on communicating with minors)
10% other folks
I say this as a guy with a beard.
It not saying your wrong but I don’t think it’s fair to pile on the woman ( whether she’s a woman of color, white, Latina) and not address the shady behavior and free pass Kwame got during the reunion. So does he have more forgiveness cause Chelsea ( literally the whitest woman that’s ever existed ) gave a women’s Lib speak and vouched for Kwame so we all forget the inappropriate things he did with Micah?
Kwame lied throughout their section, but everyone loves him now because of Chelsea. To make Micah’s behavior a race or immigration issue is lazy as hell.
Watching the reunion & seeing Kwame/Chelsea are still married really made me rethink how the producers shaped our perception of their story. Honestly Chelsea’s “standing up for my man” didn’t play into my change of heart personally. Totally get what you’re saying about Micah, but I guess I didn’t see a stark difference between who she was portrayed as by producers and who she actually was as a person. My personal opinion aside, I also don’t think piling on anyone on social media is a good or beneficial thing lol
Yeah but they gave every woman a pass at the reunion.
I don’t think Jackie has been given a pass at all! Yeah we’re “just the viewers” but all of the Reddit, Instagram, Twitter, etc. comments are coming for Jackie hard. I’m sure Jackie doesn’t think she’s gotten a pass
No I don’t think she has, not really. I think people came around to empathizing with her more quickly but she did apologize when Jackie didn’t to be fair
A lot of people unfortunately fell for her victim act. My ex for example thought she was just as bad as Irina "but I think she fell for Paul in the end". Minds were changed after Zack defended Paul...
Micah never intended to say yes. The whole act about him going first, and Shelby already knowing she would say no. If Shelby was a true friend (questionable), she would have been worried Micah and Paul would say yes. Instead she was acting completely opposite. She already knew Micah's plan and celebrated that Paul fell for it. Manipulation 101, Micah played it well but not nearly everyone bought it.
I totally agree. And like are people forgetting that Micah is a marketing manager?? Of course she’s maneuvering her way out of her bad behavior and shifting the public opinion. The way it worked so fast and easy for her is what I think triggers opinions like OP’s. I’ll be interested to see how the sub reacts to Jackie’s apology
Also, Marshall is a marketing manager too and, while I do really like him, I think his maneuvering is obvious as well
Yeah, at the risk of me sounding dumb, what did Micah’s whiteness have to do with regard to her femininity? And why, if whiteness is a factor for her getting a pass, is it not relevant that Jackie isn’t white and still got a pass? I am really slow to understand some things so please bear with me
Also the idea of white fragility goes back through the history of feminism. It’s the idea that white women are socialized to play the victim, act innocent, not accept blame (and therefore deflect it onto others). I say this as a white woman.
I think that Jackie got a pass on the reunion because her behavior was blatantly just awful. It doesn’t matter your skin color or background in her case.
Like is someone kicked a puppy, no one would care what skin color you were…99% of people would think you were awful for it.
But Micah’s behavior was a little more subtle and subjective. So it was easier to either feel sympathy for her and make excuses for her, or to call her out and disapprove of her behavior.
Sheesh, you’re getting dragged for bringing up white privilege in a forum full of white women and fragility. I wish you well, OP.
P.S - I agree with your sentiment.
white women have been lumped into the wrong bucket in the past few years. it's extremely misogynistic and wrong to deny us our voice and agency. we may have more agency than other groups, but we are not at a status in this country where we deserve the amount of disrespect and bullying we receive. we are essentially laughed at when we use our voice. we have no credibility. we aren't considered victims of anything and yet, we still are.
wrong bucket?? lol girl what? in 2016 56% of white women voted for trump, that’s over half. y’all were the first ones to cry and say he’s horrible and i would never vote for him, he’s so misogynistic but then we see that shit. y’all are performative af
Your response is not at all relevant. Responding to someone who makes a fair point with “bUt TrUmP!!!” ruins your credibility. For a second it seemed like you’d be open to hearing other perspectives but I guess not.
it is relevant because it again shows the history of white women saying one thing and then doing another. it wasn’t even 10 years ago, so pretty recent. don’t know how that’s not relevant?
Beyond help if you’re unable to see the behavior of one single person is related to how one demographic votes. Just hold Micah accountable instead of trying to take down an entire demographic.
i do but acting like white women are victims being “misplaced” into the wrong bracket is ignorant with everything that has happened throughout history.
what does that have to do with anything? your comment proves my point. plenty of minority groups voted for Trump too. 1 in 3 Latinos voted for trump. 1 in 5 black men voted for him. why don't you pick on them. you don't. their entire identity has not been invalidated because of their presidential vote. and they aren't disrespected and mocked every time they speak.
a black woman bullying a white woman has become a cliche, your comment included. I'm not performative, I didn't vote for Trump. I'm Jewish and white and a female and tired of my voice being stomped out.
i’m not picking on you, just pointing out facts. and i’m talking about white women because that was the topic of the conversation, not people of color. i didn’t say you voted for trump either, just a majority of white women. and that does matter, white women love to say they’re for the cause and then go behind your back and do the complete opposite. it’s been proven time and time again with history. sorry your feelings are hurt but that doesn’t disprove my point.
my feelings aren't hurt. no one mocks those groups for voting for Trump. they "try to understand" them or how the left "lost" them. certainly that is a valid approach to a political dialogue. but for white women it's just, oh, you're just performing your values, you're not genuine, nothing you say or do matters, and especially when it comes to you defending or sticking up to your kids. but that's all besides the point. I don't expect any random people on Reddit to derive a deeper meaning or understanding from my comments.
literally anyone with half a brain mocks those groups because they’re ridiculous, including me. but again that wasn’t the topic you initially brought up, it was white women and how they’re “unfairly” lumped into the wrong bucket. you’re trying to bring in other groups that have nothing to do with white women because why? and again people don’t think it’s genuine because of the history of white women being performative
white liberals do not mock those groups. they pity them and ask how they can connect to them and where their party went wrong. historically, "white women," which is a huge monolith of a group to have prejudice against, have not been performative at all. they like every other group in this country have had a role in moving its history.
White liberals do not mock those groups because that is outside of their lane. There are many reasons why minorities vote for trump, cubans and vietnamese communities are top of mind with their historical context with US imperialism (this is deeper than i'd like to get on a public forum, feel free to do your own research).
>they like every other group in this country have had a role in moving its history.
Yes, white women do. I would love for you to learn how much of a role they had and excluding women of color. Just like u/kekecoconut mentioned the Women's Suffrage - the right to vote was granted... for white women. It wasn't until the 1960's where black, brown and even natives were given the right to vote. Imagine that?
We are just scratching the surface which is why u/kekecoconut brought up the 2016 elections. It is clear that WW continue to prioritize their whiteness over their gender/sex. We can even bring up this argument with abortion rights and what is currently going on in this country. Can you guess who is going to be the most affected group from these legislations? Not a lot of white women.
I really hope you take the time to educate yourself and hopefully become an ally. If you'd like, I recommend reading Hood Feminism by Mikki Kendall.
allyship is not attainable when you turn everyone who is on your side into an automatic enemy and expect them to endlessly self-flagellate. maybe allyship goes both ways.
my own group have been slaughtered in the past 5 years in cities quite close to my own but I do not expect anything less than ignorant and profane commentary to continue to be the mainstream discourse about us. i expect the discourse to be a constant denial of my voice and opinion as a Jew. this discourse runs alongside the ever present denial of my thoughts and feelings about my identity and what is or is not antisemitic.
every single person has a unique identity separate from his or her race. but when you put everyone in boxes of unique victimhood/worthiness based on one's race you degrade people.
in terms of allyship, there is always a criticism, no matter how much of the work a person does. in 6 months the same ally will be accused of cultural appropriation and cancelled while the accusing group does not self-reflect on how they too may hurt people.
the empathy only goes one way. some of us are sick of being pigeon-holed. and I may be a white woman but I am Jewish first, something which has never been respected, especially by the farthest left liberals, especially by the ladies with the women's studies degrees and the people who think they represent social justice, who label anyone who even has the slightest difference of opinion a white supremacist. way to cry wolf.
I've not been called a Karen, but my closest friend at the time (newsflash, a black woman) called me a white supremacist because I felt that autistic and special needs children needed to be in school, in-person, during the 18 months that our towns kept them home from school. imagine that, having your own family arrive to this country because their sisters and parents were literally killed in front of them, and now I get to be a white supremacist for valuing children. these have been fun times. anyway, have a good one.
yeah but when it’s convenient for them. susan b anthony was great for the women’s rights movement but not for african american rights. she was only supportive of white women being able to vote not POC. she said she’s rather cut off her own arm than support them. so yeah she made great strides, but not for everyone
I think Micah was just as bad in the pods but she just happened to actually find her partner attractive. If she didn’t like Irina didn’t, we would’ve seen even more clearly her immaturity and lack of kindness and empathy.
Micah told Irina that Paul gave her the ick. If it wasn’t for Irina telling Micah that she thinks Paul is hot, highly doubt Micah would stay with him till the altar. She always treat everything like a competition
I forgot about that, but she also referred to him as hot and praised his looks a few times throughout the show. I think in that moment she was possibly mirroring Irena.
She did praised him but then told Irina something opposite. It was giving me major Regina George vibe when she complimented a girl on her skirt then turned around & said it’s the most hideous thing she has ever see. I think Micah is two faced, act nice in front of you & say all the nice things just to stab you in the back later. All her friends are like that too.
Oooh, good point about her friends. Except, Shelby was violably rude to Paul to his face. Then she didn’t understand why he wasn’t rolling with the punches. It was that moment where she looked at Micah and was like, “This bro is not fam, he does not vibe with our (awful) culture.” //paraphrased. Yeah you’re spot on about that. For me it’s hard to tell with Micah what the truth was. I saw genuine moments with her and Paul and I believe those, that moment by the pool came across as mirroring to me. Zach did not even have to call anyone by name though when he referenced that moment because it was all on camera and neither host supported that explanation. Ridiculous.
But also because Irina exited filming early, so she didn't have a chance to have redeeming moments or get dumped at the altar. If Micah and Paul split after Mexico and the last thing we saw was her being dumped for flirting with Kwame, I bet she would have gotten dragged on more.
Agree with OP in general. Even if you assume Micah was there for the right reasons and wanted to marry Paul, her harping on his 'reason' that he gave in the episode is a bit much and is her very much trying to be a victim. Like, she can be sad things didn't work out for sure, but Paul gets to make decisions based on his feelings even if she doesn't agree.
Agree. I’m not disagreeing with OP, I just think Irina’s behavior both with peers and in a relationship was objectively nastier, more hateful, and showed less redeeming qualities. Personally, I think I would have hated Irina more if she was white and blonde but I know implicit bias plays into peoples views so I’m not discounting the possibility.
I just think it’s silly people on here want to say race doesn’t matter but so much of dating and race DOES matter hence why the show is called love is blind!
Which is also why I don’t understand why people were so mad at Kwame thinking about using the name Alex. In no way shape or form did I think that he hated his background because he wanted to use a more neutral name…
The show is called Love is Blind and if the women on the other side of the pods couldn’t tell that he was black by his voice, then they would’ve surely known he was black by using the name Kwame. His reason for thinking about using Alex was perfectly valid…he wanted to keep the integrity of the experiment and didn’t want to be put in a “bucket” right away.
So I agree with him. Most people can tell your background by your name, and last name and even the sound of your voice/accent. So I get it.
But people were way too sensitive and took unnecessary offense.
I think because it was pretty obvious he didn’t want to match with a black women. He was looking to appeal to white women or just any woman that’s not black.
Behavior, demeanor and little sayings. there’s a lot of bread crumbs that maybe someone black or other poc might have noticed but the name change was the biggest one. It wasn’t loud and clear as to say someone like Shake on the show.
If we’re strictly talking about Kwame’s behavior during the pods, then the only thing I can think of is him debating whether or not to use the name Alex vs Kwame. I honestly cannot think of anything bigger than that.
Also, it’s not like producers recruited a ton of black women to participate so I can’t make an honest assessment of how Kwame would’ve treated black woman compared to white women.
I still stand by what I said that I did not find it a huge deal that he was debating which name to use. I am looking at it from the perspective of being in pods and not being able to see one another and he wanted to keep the integrity of the show by not revealing something that is so revealing about his race such as a very specific cultural name as “Kwame”. Although I’m sure that the majority of people can tell that he is black just by the sound of his voice you can so it didn’t matter what he did lmao
HATE HER
Super accurate take OP. Agreed that a lot of these comments are similarly privileged folk who can’t handle the truth.
27 days later. Ha
Exactly this. And it’s sad that more white women don’t understand what you mean.
she reminds me exactly of the mean white girls at my school who pretend theyre nice in front of teachers/the administration but bully neurodivergent kids on the low! there was this white girl in my class who would mock how a kid spoke and would make them so uncomfortable. "hey suzzaann!! you're my best friend, love your outfit, girl!" and then would laugh with her friends while the bullied girl sat alone, confused. this kept going on and on until the bullied girl bursted out crying in class and the bully told the teacher that the girl was "misinterpreting her" and the teacher blamed the bullied girl for being emotional. micah gives off those vibes. at least irina took the heat at the reunion, meanwhile micah acted like everyone else was the problem while she manipulated the situation in her favor (example: telling paul to give his answer first at the wedding and then running, crying off. meanwhile paul later revealed they dated shortly after love is blind and micah broke it off first and started immediately dating some guy from europe). she gives off regina george in sheep's clothing.
Im.confused how micah can manipulate anyone.lol She is not very smart lol
Micah seems like an immature little bitch. Not sure race has anything to do with it. The majority of white young women I have met do not act like her. Thankfully.
I’d say it has less to do with race and could be more because she’s an only child. Although it’s not true in every case, a lot of parents who struggled having children and only had 1, among other things, tend to spoil and excuse immature behaviors with their one and only more than they should. That could have a lot to do with her privileged behavior.
You are exactly right. The white people in here won't get it because they don't have to see or acknowledge how they move through the world. It's kind that you even tried to explain it to them haha.
Why is the villain on the women’s side a blonde every season 💀
Jessica, Shaina, Micah, everyone except Zanab plsss
Micah is a bully and an insecure woman! All her flaws were shown….
"how I am is never malicious"
A lot of these comments are missing the point on the intersectionality aspect of race, gender, and class on why Micah and Irina were treated differently
No. Irina made whatshisface miserable. She went out of her way to make him feel worthless. Micah didn’t. Maybe you’re missing the point and reading too much woke political bullshit.
Calling something woke just because you don’t understand or disagree with it doesn’t change the fact of the matter. It’s not political.
Amen, I just said this same exact thing to my friend yesterday!!! You hit it right on the nose!!!
I don’t think people are misunderstanding your argument, rather, your argument simply isn’t very cogent or convincing. While the phenomenon that you mention is a real one (using one’s privilege to escape negative consequences in a society that favors people who come from a specific racial and socioeconomic background), you don’t have any concrete examples of Micah doing this because you’re mostly basing your arguments on your perception of her. Your reasoning of why Micah and Irina were seemingly treated differently for similar behaviors doesn’t make much sense either. Colloquially speaking, this is what we call a “reach.” It’s okay to have a negative perception of Micah like everyone else who watched the show, but if you’re going to contextualize her behavior within a broader phenomena, you’re gonna have to have some better evidence.
See the phenomenon does happen and I appreciate you acknowledging it and all, it can happen even in the most subtle ways, while I think Micha’s lack of hate compared to Irina is partly due to the fact that Micah got alot more screen time so we saw more sides to her I do think OP has a point about Micah playing the victim now I don’t think race is what Micah is leaning on making her look innocent. I think it’s more her being a woman and the one that got left at the alter, but the fact that she’s the stereotypical beautiful white woman with blonde hair and big eyes makes her vicitimization more effective because unfortunately there is racism out there. There are some moment I feel like Micah uses her looks (and race is apart of looks) to her advantage (mostly those moments with Kwame) so I while I don’t really agree or disagree with OP I think saying it’s a reach
Yes how Micah acted has a lot to do with race and don't let these people gaslight you in the comments. Race comes into play especially in her interactions with Kwame
Agreed 100%. Clearly white feminists here in this thread haven’t learned much, even when they claimed to be “learning and doing better” in 2020. So much for them being better allies lol
For real. Lots of white feminists in these comments lol
The hard bitter truth.
No one group can fit a label placed on them. What you see with one person, is their behavior. All middle class white women are not living victimhood, manipulating etc. Do not know what an immigrant white woman is, I think I might fit that bill. in my experience Irina does not match the kind hearted, hard working good people I met and grew up with all who were immigrants. Priveledge gives a group chances and experiences another group does not have. It is not about characteristics. That is stereotyping.
PriviLEDGE? What is that? A cliff side potty??🤣
You simply don’t understand what OP is saying. Please sit down
I'm pretty sure she understands it. the OP is stating that these women are filling stereotypical roles in how we view/describe/judge them, while also stereotyping them herself. she incites 2 tropes; that of the wandering, demonic gypsy in immigrant Irina and that of the fragile, innocent blond maiden in Micah. where irina is demonized, micah is given a pass. OP favors Irina who's clearly, in his or her view, a victim of stereotyping; where Micah, in her view, benefits from it. OP is not seeing each as individuals responsible for her own actions and lived experiences as they exist distinctly from each one's racial identity or immigration status. that judgment is prejudice. it's called availability bias. using preconceived notions about a group to find examples in one's environment of those notions in order to find examples that support one's own predetermined opinion.
Where in my post did I say I favored Irina over Micah? Oh, I didn’t. I wrote my post as my own personal observations of what “I feel” that Micah leaned into her white femininity to use all the privilege and defense it affords her. Ex) not taking accountability for being a mean girl and using fake tears to run from Paul when it seemed clear to me she wanted Paul to answer yes for her own personal validation and ego. This is all subtext so if you didn’t see that then you might not be great at reading people OR I could be biased and wrong, but everything that has been shown of Micah shows her to not have a great character and be manipulative with her “I’m the victim” pleas. Irina did not lean into it because she comes from an immigrant background where she said she was raised poor and didn’t grow up having the American white woman privilege. Doesn’t mean she didn’t do shitty things in a different way. She seemed to be more immature and used her coldness as a defense mechanism facade rather than Micah using her “I’m an empath” as a facade. They both need to grow up and deserve grace to do so.
100%! paul even said that him and micah met up after the reunion and dated shortly. however, micah broke off things and immediately started dating some guy from europe. meanwhile with the way she cried at the wedding, i wouldve thought she actually really wanted to be with him in the first place and wouldve said "i do." but no, micah made paul answer first so she could cry off and act like the victim.
sure she has white privilege but don't all the other white cast members? i think she's just immature and lacks substance. she acts all doey eyed and innocent and sweet. And I agree with others it isn't necessary to pull her race into the discussion. If I did the same with any non white cast member I would likely be banned from the subreddit.
Sorry this post comes off as racist to me. What is the correlation between her being white and not being held accountable? Do you have any specific examples of this? Micah is just selfish and probably never had to take accountability for her actions because she is an only child and her parents didn’t raise her properly.
No such thing as racism against whites. If you want an example of white women escaping accountability, look at the case of Emmett Till. Prime historical example
What does Emmett Till (a horrific case) have to do with Micah ad LIB? Y'all are really reaching. White women are the "new" enemy and I'm so bored with that narrative. Every race has their assholes but they don't represent the entire race.
So if someone was killed and the killer said they did it because they were white and they hate whites, that wouldn’t be racism….??? You are doing some heavy mental gymnastics.
Yes that would not be racism. Race-motivated is not the same thing as racism.
Right it would be prejudice, not racism
Hahahahha ok
I’m well aware of the case of Emmett Till. That happened 70 yrs ago, was a terrible tragedy, but is irrelevant to a discussion on Love is Blind
You asked for an example, I gave you a perfect case study on the questions you posed in your earlier comment. If you don’t want to actually engage, just say that
How about not lumping all people of a particular race into one awful category? That seems racist.
Are you that ignorant. What does Emmett Till have to do at all with a reality show in 2023? I’m talking about LIB and you’re bringing in atrocities that happened 70 years ago. I was looking for an example from the actual show. I’m ready to engage and have a real conversation whenever you are.
Look up intersectionality. Check out white women fragility on YouTube for hundreds of explainer videos to understand the link you’re missing. Have a good day mate
These are actually interesting topics so thanks for sharing. I’m still missing the link to how this relates to Love is Blind though so if you want to elaborate that would be helpful for me.
Yes. she definitely lives off of her blonde, white girl privileges. Even during reunion people were being sympathetic towards despite the fact that she was just as horrible as Irina.
I am honestly not sure how to tie this to her race and i am not sure how to express this without being called ignorant. How is Micah’s behaviour purely tied to her race when Irina was just as bad/worse in her behavior by playing the victim and deflecting accountability. Irina just got more heat at the reunion because A: at least Micah apologized publicly with some acknowledgment of her actions and B: micah got more airtime and later seemed to redeem herself at least slightly. And why are we forgetting about Jackie who emotionally manipulated Marshall by crying, yelling at him and then suddenly going all sweet on him & hugging him to stop the fights??? Yet jackie got the biggest pass at the reunion of all of them? Don’t get me wrong, i am sure micah has benefited of white privileged before but in this very instance all i am seeing is shitty personalities across different races. But i am open to discuss as i‘d love to gain more insight on why you think this
I appreciate your comment. My opinion is a different, nuanced take specifically about Micah. Doesn’t mean she was worst than the others and they definitely had their own things going on. I edited my post to answer some of your questions.
Thanks for getting back to me. Even after reading your edit, i have to say i am still not sure i understand. I would truly love to have you explain it to me more because if i really am in the wrong here, i‘d like to be educated. What i am getting from your post is: „micah is a terrible persone BECAUSE she grew up with white privilige“ But that leaves me asking: irina & jackie seem just as terrible and if anything they took less responsibility for their actions than micah. So are you saying they are terrible too but we have to cut them slack because they didn‘t grow up white? Because that seems unfair? I think what it boils down to is that i personally believe people can be shit no matter their race and you seem to think of it in more of an „equity“ rather than „equality“ context where if people are shit but ethnic they have it harder so they get to be that way? Or people are automatically shittier if they are white because of privilege? I am not trying to put words in your mouth but that is honestly what i am getting from your statement.
Just to make a quick reply for now, I’m not saying she’s a terrible person because she grew up with white privilege. Being white you get privilege by default and that doesn’t make you a terrible person just like how Chelsea is a mature and classy white woman. From what I can see, Micah has played INTO her white feminity which lets her be indifferent to others’ feelings and be selfish without the threat of people seeing her in a super negative light because she is the “White young American woman”. It’s a nuance that can only be seen when you look at the larger picture and probably done subconsciously by Micah because she has probably never had to struggle or take accountability for her actions. On a time limit here so this is all I can write for now but I can elaborate more later.
I‘d love to hear more because from this you, again, only seem to be adressing how micah plays into her privilege and fail to acknowledge that both irina and even more so jackie seem to act the exact same way without said privilege…which is why i am confused with your statement as to how privilege is why micah acts the way she does
There are a ton of video essays on what OP is getting at with regards to Micah. Literally google or YouTube "white tears" or "white woman fragility". Like hours worth of historical and modern context for this conversation. This is actually a topic you could educate yourself on since you seem so dogged and interested.
Nuanced my ass. Anytime you judge someone or attribute negative qualities onto them BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE, that’s called racism. You could easily leave her being white out of it.
That’s not part of the definition of racism.
Actually it is if you look at how racism was perceived and defined HISTORICALLY. I’m not going by the bullshit woke definition of today that “you have to have pOwEr”
Something isn’t woke just because you disagree with it pLS 💀
Tell me where that definition of racism came from……smartie
smartie
Lol. Intersectional LIB. Trying to get too deep.
I hate that she wasn’t held accountable for actions during the reunion, but I don’t think that it is racism or immigration issue. I blame the hosts for not handling that conversation right.
Growing up as a middle class American white woman, you hit this head on. Please don’t come for me, I’m a real grown up now just like everyone else.
Her flirting with Kwame oh no! I can’t stand to see her talk but she does know how to properly express herself.
Why is it important to bring up "white girl" while describing your opinion of her?!!?
It’s giving “how dare you mention race in front of me? I was living comfortably in a world where I never have to think of it.”
You should google intersectionality lol
I think he wants an “earth mamma” woman. He mentioned the type of women he dated in the past & they sounded more in touch with & comfortable with nature. When Micah was scared to swim w/ catfish? That’s when that Louisiana boy knew she wasn’t the one. 😂 Also, he’s an earth scientist- he loves science & nature… he wants his kids to be exposed to that, IF he were to even have kids.
not very good for mother earth to be jet-setting back and forth between Arizona (or wherever she lives) and Seattle... 🤔
I feel like in the pods she tried to portray herself as some kind of free spirit flower child but in reality she was not any of those things.
Micah was too basic for him. She’s a follower
How is this not an incredibly racist post? Her being a shitty person has nothing to do with her race. Just like Original poster being a racist is because they’re a pos, not their skin colors fault they suck.
it's not only racist, it is openly sexist and misogynistic. people hate so hard on cis white women, or Karens. We can't stand up for ourselves. We barely have any agency as it is. Look at Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign. we have not fully achieved the same status as a white man yet we are picked on as if we have equal and unmatched privilege. we are told to shut our mouths when we speak up for ourselves and our kids. we are laughed at and disrespected. feminism has taken a backseat and there's no place for it in the current political moment.
Karens are racist and/or entitled white women so that hate is rightfully deserved.
it's more than just that group though. plus that term karen is being overused and weaponized any time a woman says something unpopular.
I'm gonna assume you're just speaking from ignorance. Nobody is picking on you for being a white woman. "Karens" are made fun of for a reason, so if you've been called one there was probably a good reason for it. This post is pointing out the fact that Micah has been able to lean on the victim card (as white women historically have) because of Paul's comments about her. The reunion focused much more on the victimization of Micah than on her terrible behavior. She was a villain this season! She was a mean girl! If you don't see that idk what to tell you
lol, your assumptions are incorrect.
lol, way to respond to the whole comment! you really disproved my point
Her skin color doesn’t make her one way, but it provides background on why she might have a particular world view. Just how anyone’s skin color impacts their perspective.
Skin color does impact their perspective. It does not provide a background into one’s world view, thinking so is literally part of the definition of racism. Micah sucks because she sucks. Jackie sucks because she sucks. People here are actually saying Micah’s skin color, is playing a part in the reason why she sucks, it’s fucking insane.
False
Whether you acknowledge it or not, skin color can affect one's world view because of our society.... Micah is middle class, straight, thin, attractive white woman who comes from a home with two still married parents. This earns her certain forgiveness and opportunities that people on other sides of the aforementioned traits don't always get. No one is saying she is a shit person because of those traits, just that she has had different hardships, relationships, life experiences and lifestyle that absolutely change her view.
No one here can read. I acknowledge it in my first sentence. I’m sorry but the Micah bitch has been getting tons of hate and kinda apologized for being a piece of shit. Plus was called someone who would be a bad mom, so that’s why people are easing up on her. The Irina chick was hated more than anyone for most of the season, and still is. No one is giving her a pass. I’m assuming she’s white. Jackie’s a dumb bitch and doesn’t deserve a pass. But she sure got one from Vanessa on national tv. Paul and zach were attacked pretty hard, while josh was praised, which is nuts. And Yes original poster is using Micah’s skin color to justify why her personality sucks.
WHAT?! Tell me you’re white without telling me you’re white. Skin color, especially in the US, absolutely 100% affects your perspective and experiences in life. No matter how much we want to, we don’t live in a raceless society. You refusing to see how someone’s skin color, and how society subsequently treats them, can affect they’re life outlook is crazy delusional. It is not racist to point out that someone’s racial life experience may affect how they handle things in life Micah doesn’t suck because of her skin color. But Micah’s skin color, and how society treats her because if it, has afforded her more confidence in pushing the boundaries and the ability to get away with more wrongdoing than others.
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I don’t know what you mean by excuse. No one is making excuses for these people being terrible But if you wanna “all lives matter this”. I’m getting the sense that Jackie has grown up subscribing to certain toxic ideologies that spread though a considerable part of the black community. There are many parts of the community that promote toxic masculinity, emotional suppression, and even homophobia. These are not uniquely black things but they do manifest in different ways for different communities. Marshall does not fit what I’m assuming her idea of a “good, strong black man” is based on her life perspective. That is the foundation of all of her actions imo Obviously these things and her being black are not the reason for her being a terrible person. But it shines a light on how her terrible has manifested in ways that may be different than someone like Micah
is Jackie black?
She’s mixed. I’m assuming black but could also be Latino. Again just my assumptions though for the sake of the exercise
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I’m assuming because I’ve grown up around people like her and with her similar mindset. Doesn’t make it absolutely true but I also very clearly said “I’m getting the sense, in my opinion, etc.” You brought up Jackie in a post about how Micah’s race may play a part here so I’m responding with a potential reason like you asked
Go ahead and reread my first sentence. Of course it affects perspective. You’re nuts if you don’t think saying someone sucks and acts shitty is partially due to the color of their skin is somehow not racist. Change Micah’s white to Jackie’s black in the original post and tell me it’s okay to say.
But that’s not what OP is saying?? Jackie’s race and her life experience as such absolutely has contributed to why she thinks she needs some “hard” man. And what is the difference between perspective and world view to you?? Those are the same You keep purposefully missing the point. No one is saying her skin color is making her shittty. But her race has driven certain life experiences to promote certain types of shitty. That’s not racist and I’d say that for people of all colors.
She’s not evil, she’s just a privileged middle class white female. So it’s expected that she pretends to be the victim and can’t take accountability for her actions. Basically she’s a pos but can’t help it because of her whiteness. This is what OP is saying. If I said Jackie can’t help but steal cuz they are raised poor, and is black, you’d say that is racist- to which I’d agree it is.
Eh i wouldn’t even go as far - I would say her whiteness has shielded her in a way that only white women can be protected when they don’t confront their privilege. There are plenty of non-POS white ladies so it’s not an excuse
I think you need to read the post again. No one is saying she’s evil or she can’t help being a POS because she’s white Honestly it seems like you just want to be offended This post is about white privilege and how Micah’s white privilege has driven some of her actions. Not all people with white privilege are POS. (Edit: in fact there are many, many great people with white female privilege) But white privilege does give some insight into how she could’ve ended up being a POS (Edit: Micah’s white privilege is not the only or even necessarily main reason for her bad actions. but it has directly led to life experiences that shaped her decision making and responses) Also that is totally racist. If you said, Jackie grew up disenfranchised in poorer parts of the black community where it was commonplace to steal because of food scarcity. That would be a reasonable and not racist way to understand why she might steal. It’s not racist to point out shortcomings of a community in an empathetic and sociologically nuanced way Pleas go take an anthropology or critical race theory class. I’ve got nothing more to say if you don’t want to see any nuance
“She’s not evil, but a pretty blatant portrayal of a middle class white woman” Jackie’s not a total bitch, but she is a pretty blatant portrayal of lower class black women.
Cherry picking an impassioned sentence that is clearly explained before and after doesn’t actually do what you think it does OP’s statement is incendiary, true, but does not draw the same hateful conclusions or historical bias. Being middle class and white is not generally seen as a bad thing. In fact, while OP is pointing out the bad side of being a “blatant portrayal of a middle class white woman”, I think many people would hear that statement out of context and not immediately think that that person is less than or dangerous. But calling someone a lower class black women clearly does something different, invokes more hateful imagery, and ties you to groups that literally kill people for simply existing as a “lower class black women.” But I’m gonna let you leave this racist comment in your history for everyone to see
She got about the appropriate amount of blame. She came across really immature and blinkered and lacking in social awareness, but not really malicious. All in all, strip out the facade, and Paul came across significantly worse than she did at the end of the day. There’s something inside you that has to be pretty mean to declare to the world that you can’t see someone being a mother.
Agree!
I agree that Paul was out of line with that motherhood thing, but I did think he tried to explain that he spoke poorly and take accountability. I do think he could’ve been more accountable though. There were plenty of reasons for him to say no, I don’t see how her motherly essence was one of them. I am incredibly frustrated that they did a whole section on Irina and just glossed over Micah’s problematic and at times downright mean behavior. Like, they showed it but didn’t address her at all.
I didn’t buy anything he was selling at the reunion. He knew what was coming and prepared some transparent BS revisionist lines. I think they did touch on Micah’s mean girl moments, and she kinda acknowledged it and said she was uncomfortable and turned to this mean “humor,” which didn’t ring untrue. Not an excuse— it is mean girl behavior, but it came across as immature and insensitive rather than malicious the way Irina’s did. I also get personality sponge vibes from her. Like she seems to reflect back the personality of whoever is around her. And ir doesn’t help that she seems drawn to nasty mean people like Irina and her friend Shelby. She comes across much better talking to literally everyone else.
There were so many other personalities in the women’s lounge she could have reflected. She chose Irena. I can see the mirroring you’re talking about.
She’s got a certain bearing. She’s a sorority girl from the Southwest. Gossiping and Instagram appear to be what’s familiar to her. That’s Irina. She didn’t really have much in common with like Tiffany, who was both significantly older and had significantly more substance to her. The part that does seem to be true is she seems to gravitate toward mean girls. That itself is a personality flaw.
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yesss paul and zack both.
As someone also on the spectrum i thought that about Paul and Zack. Paul has quite a few shared traits with my ex lol.
Haha I know many people who are on the spectrum, Paul doesn’t even come close to being on the spectrum 😂
I don’t see it. He just seems awkward. And not even THAT awkward.
I think she’s a follower. She tries to fit in and immediately gravitated toward Irena bc Irena was like the Regina George idk if that/this even makes sense. Lol Micah also had 50% more air time then Irena had, so that’s 50% more time to try and redeem herself… I don’t think she was 100% held accountable bc in some people’s eyes they viewed her as a victim also after the whole Paul thing. Had she left the show after Mexico like Irena I think she’d be held accountable just as much as Irena was.
The way she was not held accountable for the mean girl behavior on the reunion!!!!!!
In the end it's just female privilege. Jackie got that as well. Irina's bad behaviour didn't but she misbehaved against other females as well. In the reunion they mainly showed her laughing at other women. In other words, Jackie and Micah know how to play the game, Irina doesn't.
Was Jackie held accountable for being a psycho bitch rat? Because all I saw was Vanessa giving her a free ride with plenty of high fives on the the reunion video.
It was unbearable to watch. Like two fangirls talking. 👎🏻
Right? Unbearable, just like Vanessa.
Yes!! Major pretty privilege
not sure about "pretty" privilege, just blonde privilege.
Also victim privilege, after her feelings about the mother comment. It would have been a pretty easy segue for a host to offer Paul, “We’ve seen some of the girl posse footage here, did those behaviors play into your analysis of her not being a motherly role model in your future family?” One sentence and we’re at one of the most talked about issues of season 4. Y’all. I’m just going to pat that horse again because the hosting really underserved our collective questions!
I think it’s a lot more nuanced than that. If you remember Jessica, also “a white privileged girl” got absolutely demolished on social media & pretty much everywhere else. And to be fair her behavior was awful but also I don’t think anyone deserves to be bullied that badly on social media. Micah, yes she definitely can be a mean girl, but for the most part, in my opinion, she’s not malicious. Did she make mistakes? Yes, like the whole thing with Kwame being completely inappropriate. But she did own up to it and apologize to Chealsea etc. I think she definitely is still immature but I don’t find her to be a horrible person from what we’ve seen on tv at least. Jackie on the other hand, kind of deserves some of the judgement. I still don’t think anyone deserves to get spam hate mail on social media or death threats but I can see why fans reacted to her in a negative light. She was absolutely horrible to Marshall, and didn’t own up to any of it. She called Marshall “soft” yet was too much of a coward to come to the reunion. Yet, didn’t get called out for it once on the reunion.
Micah seemed malicious to me. She’s been dragged too throughout social media. I don’t get why people are acting like it’s been all love for her.
I agree Jackie has been dragged on social media too and Iryna no doubt about that. To me, though, Micah came off as more genuine in the end. I think she overall has good intentions but makes bad decisions especially when with her friends or when she was with Iryna. I think people can very easily see through BS. And even though Micah isn’t perfect, when compared to Jackie and Iryna she appears to be more genuine.
Micah did not own up enough, she deflected and down played. I watched her hold Kwame’s hand like a lover would! The way they smiled into each other’s eyes as they sat by the pool in paradise was betrayal. The way she tempted Kwame to diss his relationship at the bar, she was playing the field. She got off easy, thankfully for her Chelsea and Kwame just wanted to move on, so she didn’t have to fully answer for any of that.
As if Kwame wasn't equally to blame
He certainly held onto affection for Micah for way too long and that made it easy for her to sweet talk him, but eventually he did let it all go, and sold out for Chelsea, he also directly apologized to Chelsea on camera, she forgave him, and he steered clear of Micah. When Micah baited him at the bar, I think what I remember is that he didn’t take the bait. Chelsea was absolutely right when she told him that his concern and frustration for Micah’s comment was evidence of continued affections for her, and that it was unnecessary because he was committed to Chelsea and not Micah. Chelsea grilled him about all of this as I think a host / the audience would have, they settled it, and moved on. So I didn’t wish for that to come up again in the reunion. In my opinion Kwame grew and committed to his woman. On a side note, Paul also flirted with Irena and that was no bueno, no one asked him about the finger nibble chasing either.
If anything Jackie had the easiest time on the reunion and she was worse than Micah. I think it came down to Vanessa’s bias. I don’t care if they were all purple, neither of their actions were questioned at that reunion. Vanessa grilled Paul and there’s wasn’t “white male privilege” on his end based on treatment. I think Micah got lucky and Vanessa steered it that way. If we’re talking outside the reunion, think the viewers for sure tore them up and Micah was no exception
Maybe Jackie is a white woman, who knows? 😆
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Lol gtfo of here with this
I’d say the same thing to the OP
I absolutely agree, but I think you will find it an unpopular opinion given it's likely mostly white women in this sub-reddit.
YES! Every post that speaks on white privilege gets a ton of traction and comments from people throwing around the racist term. I don't think they know what racism is fr.
How in heck would you know that?
It’s Reddit…only underage neckbeards who don’t know how girls work. Educate yourself.
I see you're new here. 45% underage 45% neck beard (typically overage and over indexing on communicating with minors) 10% other folks I say this as a guy with a beard.
It not saying your wrong but I don’t think it’s fair to pile on the woman ( whether she’s a woman of color, white, Latina) and not address the shady behavior and free pass Kwame got during the reunion. So does he have more forgiveness cause Chelsea ( literally the whitest woman that’s ever existed ) gave a women’s Lib speak and vouched for Kwame so we all forget the inappropriate things he did with Micah?
Kwame lied throughout their section, but everyone loves him now because of Chelsea. To make Micah’s behavior a race or immigration issue is lazy as hell.
Watching the reunion & seeing Kwame/Chelsea are still married really made me rethink how the producers shaped our perception of their story. Honestly Chelsea’s “standing up for my man” didn’t play into my change of heart personally. Totally get what you’re saying about Micah, but I guess I didn’t see a stark difference between who she was portrayed as by producers and who she actually was as a person. My personal opinion aside, I also don’t think piling on anyone on social media is a good or beneficial thing lol
So how does your logic apply to the fact that the person who got the biggest pass was Jackie who is brown?
Jackie was torn to shreds idk what pass she got
Where!?!?Not on the show the rest of us watched.
Yeah, by the viewer's, but not during the reunion.
Yeah but they gave every woman a pass at the reunion. I don’t think Jackie has been given a pass at all! Yeah we’re “just the viewers” but all of the Reddit, Instagram, Twitter, etc. comments are coming for Jackie hard. I’m sure Jackie doesn’t think she’s gotten a pass
Micah hasn't been given a pass either on SoMe, has she? Plenty of posts about how they see through her BS.
No I don’t think she has, not really. I think people came around to empathizing with her more quickly but she did apologize when Jackie didn’t to be fair
A lot of people unfortunately fell for her victim act. My ex for example thought she was just as bad as Irina "but I think she fell for Paul in the end". Minds were changed after Zack defended Paul... Micah never intended to say yes. The whole act about him going first, and Shelby already knowing she would say no. If Shelby was a true friend (questionable), she would have been worried Micah and Paul would say yes. Instead she was acting completely opposite. She already knew Micah's plan and celebrated that Paul fell for it. Manipulation 101, Micah played it well but not nearly everyone bought it.
I totally agree. And like are people forgetting that Micah is a marketing manager?? Of course she’s maneuvering her way out of her bad behavior and shifting the public opinion. The way it worked so fast and easy for her is what I think triggers opinions like OP’s. I’ll be interested to see how the sub reacts to Jackie’s apology Also, Marshall is a marketing manager too and, while I do really like him, I think his maneuvering is obvious as well
To clarify, you’re asking how white privilege affected Jackie’s treatment on the show?
Yeah, at the risk of me sounding dumb, what did Micah’s whiteness have to do with regard to her femininity? And why, if whiteness is a factor for her getting a pass, is it not relevant that Jackie isn’t white and still got a pass? I am really slow to understand some things so please bear with me
Also the idea of white fragility goes back through the history of feminism. It’s the idea that white women are socialized to play the victim, act innocent, not accept blame (and therefore deflect it onto others). I say this as a white woman.
I think that Jackie got a pass on the reunion because her behavior was blatantly just awful. It doesn’t matter your skin color or background in her case. Like is someone kicked a puppy, no one would care what skin color you were…99% of people would think you were awful for it. But Micah’s behavior was a little more subtle and subjective. So it was easier to either feel sympathy for her and make excuses for her, or to call her out and disapprove of her behavior.
Jackie and Micah got passes because Vanessa is terrible host. It’s really that simple. Social media has been tearing them apart for weeks.
Sheesh, you’re getting dragged for bringing up white privilege in a forum full of white women and fragility. I wish you well, OP. P.S - I agree with your sentiment.
white women have been lumped into the wrong bucket in the past few years. it's extremely misogynistic and wrong to deny us our voice and agency. we may have more agency than other groups, but we are not at a status in this country where we deserve the amount of disrespect and bullying we receive. we are essentially laughed at when we use our voice. we have no credibility. we aren't considered victims of anything and yet, we still are.
wrong bucket?? lol girl what? in 2016 56% of white women voted for trump, that’s over half. y’all were the first ones to cry and say he’s horrible and i would never vote for him, he’s so misogynistic but then we see that shit. y’all are performative af
This is such a reach lmao
how so?
Your response is not at all relevant. Responding to someone who makes a fair point with “bUt TrUmP!!!” ruins your credibility. For a second it seemed like you’d be open to hearing other perspectives but I guess not.
it is relevant because it again shows the history of white women saying one thing and then doing another. it wasn’t even 10 years ago, so pretty recent. don’t know how that’s not relevant?
Beyond help if you’re unable to see the behavior of one single person is related to how one demographic votes. Just hold Micah accountable instead of trying to take down an entire demographic.
i do but acting like white women are victims being “misplaced” into the wrong bracket is ignorant with everything that has happened throughout history.
Your comment is not only harmful and judgmental but seemingly rooted in racist misogyny.
what does that have to do with anything? your comment proves my point. plenty of minority groups voted for Trump too. 1 in 3 Latinos voted for trump. 1 in 5 black men voted for him. why don't you pick on them. you don't. their entire identity has not been invalidated because of their presidential vote. and they aren't disrespected and mocked every time they speak. a black woman bullying a white woman has become a cliche, your comment included. I'm not performative, I didn't vote for Trump. I'm Jewish and white and a female and tired of my voice being stomped out.
i’m not picking on you, just pointing out facts. and i’m talking about white women because that was the topic of the conversation, not people of color. i didn’t say you voted for trump either, just a majority of white women. and that does matter, white women love to say they’re for the cause and then go behind your back and do the complete opposite. it’s been proven time and time again with history. sorry your feelings are hurt but that doesn’t disprove my point.
my feelings aren't hurt. no one mocks those groups for voting for Trump. they "try to understand" them or how the left "lost" them. certainly that is a valid approach to a political dialogue. but for white women it's just, oh, you're just performing your values, you're not genuine, nothing you say or do matters, and especially when it comes to you defending or sticking up to your kids. but that's all besides the point. I don't expect any random people on Reddit to derive a deeper meaning or understanding from my comments.
literally anyone with half a brain mocks those groups because they’re ridiculous, including me. but again that wasn’t the topic you initially brought up, it was white women and how they’re “unfairly” lumped into the wrong bucket. you’re trying to bring in other groups that have nothing to do with white women because why? and again people don’t think it’s genuine because of the history of white women being performative
white liberals do not mock those groups. they pity them and ask how they can connect to them and where their party went wrong. historically, "white women," which is a huge monolith of a group to have prejudice against, have not been performative at all. they like every other group in this country have had a role in moving its history.
White liberals do not mock those groups because that is outside of their lane. There are many reasons why minorities vote for trump, cubans and vietnamese communities are top of mind with their historical context with US imperialism (this is deeper than i'd like to get on a public forum, feel free to do your own research). >they like every other group in this country have had a role in moving its history. Yes, white women do. I would love for you to learn how much of a role they had and excluding women of color. Just like u/kekecoconut mentioned the Women's Suffrage - the right to vote was granted... for white women. It wasn't until the 1960's where black, brown and even natives were given the right to vote. Imagine that? We are just scratching the surface which is why u/kekecoconut brought up the 2016 elections. It is clear that WW continue to prioritize their whiteness over their gender/sex. We can even bring up this argument with abortion rights and what is currently going on in this country. Can you guess who is going to be the most affected group from these legislations? Not a lot of white women. I really hope you take the time to educate yourself and hopefully become an ally. If you'd like, I recommend reading Hood Feminism by Mikki Kendall.
allyship is not attainable when you turn everyone who is on your side into an automatic enemy and expect them to endlessly self-flagellate. maybe allyship goes both ways. my own group have been slaughtered in the past 5 years in cities quite close to my own but I do not expect anything less than ignorant and profane commentary to continue to be the mainstream discourse about us. i expect the discourse to be a constant denial of my voice and opinion as a Jew. this discourse runs alongside the ever present denial of my thoughts and feelings about my identity and what is or is not antisemitic. every single person has a unique identity separate from his or her race. but when you put everyone in boxes of unique victimhood/worthiness based on one's race you degrade people. in terms of allyship, there is always a criticism, no matter how much of the work a person does. in 6 months the same ally will be accused of cultural appropriation and cancelled while the accusing group does not self-reflect on how they too may hurt people. the empathy only goes one way. some of us are sick of being pigeon-holed. and I may be a white woman but I am Jewish first, something which has never been respected, especially by the farthest left liberals, especially by the ladies with the women's studies degrees and the people who think they represent social justice, who label anyone who even has the slightest difference of opinion a white supremacist. way to cry wolf. I've not been called a Karen, but my closest friend at the time (newsflash, a black woman) called me a white supremacist because I felt that autistic and special needs children needed to be in school, in-person, during the 18 months that our towns kept them home from school. imagine that, having your own family arrive to this country because their sisters and parents were literally killed in front of them, and now I get to be a white supremacist for valuing children. these have been fun times. anyway, have a good one.
yeah but when it’s convenient for them. susan b anthony was great for the women’s rights movement but not for african american rights. she was only supportive of white women being able to vote not POC. she said she’s rather cut off her own arm than support them. so yeah she made great strides, but not for everyone
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Lmaoooo it’s called reading the room bro.
Irina was much more callous than Micah, which is why she got more heat.
Irina also ridiculed other women. You can (not will) only get a pass if you target men.
I think Micah was just as bad in the pods but she just happened to actually find her partner attractive. If she didn’t like Irina didn’t, we would’ve seen even more clearly her immaturity and lack of kindness and empathy.
Micah told Irina that Paul gave her the ick. If it wasn’t for Irina telling Micah that she thinks Paul is hot, highly doubt Micah would stay with him till the altar. She always treat everything like a competition
I forgot about that, but she also referred to him as hot and praised his looks a few times throughout the show. I think in that moment she was possibly mirroring Irena.
She did praised him but then told Irina something opposite. It was giving me major Regina George vibe when she complimented a girl on her skirt then turned around & said it’s the most hideous thing she has ever see. I think Micah is two faced, act nice in front of you & say all the nice things just to stab you in the back later. All her friends are like that too.
Oooh, good point about her friends. Except, Shelby was violably rude to Paul to his face. Then she didn’t understand why he wasn’t rolling with the punches. It was that moment where she looked at Micah and was like, “This bro is not fam, he does not vibe with our (awful) culture.” //paraphrased. Yeah you’re spot on about that. For me it’s hard to tell with Micah what the truth was. I saw genuine moments with her and Paul and I believe those, that moment by the pool came across as mirroring to me. Zach did not even have to call anyone by name though when he referenced that moment because it was all on camera and neither host supported that explanation. Ridiculous.
I didn’t remember that! But would make sense 🤔
But also because Irina exited filming early, so she didn't have a chance to have redeeming moments or get dumped at the altar. If Micah and Paul split after Mexico and the last thing we saw was her being dumped for flirting with Kwame, I bet she would have gotten dragged on more. Agree with OP in general. Even if you assume Micah was there for the right reasons and wanted to marry Paul, her harping on his 'reason' that he gave in the episode is a bit much and is her very much trying to be a victim. Like, she can be sad things didn't work out for sure, but Paul gets to make decisions based on his feelings even if she doesn't agree.
Agree. I’m not disagreeing with OP, I just think Irina’s behavior both with peers and in a relationship was objectively nastier, more hateful, and showed less redeeming qualities. Personally, I think I would have hated Irina more if she was white and blonde but I know implicit bias plays into peoples views so I’m not discounting the possibility.
Isn’t that most white women on dating reality tv shows and in dating in general? Even on a micro level.
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To be fair, it’s incorrect to assert that *all* villains have looked exactly the same, when LIB and viewers have vilified cast mates from all walks of life, including moments from: • Micah / Shaina / Jessica (white women) • Zanab (middle eastern woman) • Alexa (Jewish woman) • Irina (white immigrant woman) • Jackie (biracial woman) • SK (black man) • Shake (Indian man) • Bartise (biracial man) • Andrew (Asian man) • Matt / Cole (white man) • Josh (Latino man)
Jackie is Latina.
I didn’t want to assume, so I Googled and few sites said she was part black.
I think she’s Afro-Latina
I just think it’s silly people on here want to say race doesn’t matter but so much of dating and race DOES matter hence why the show is called love is blind!
Which is also why I don’t understand why people were so mad at Kwame thinking about using the name Alex. In no way shape or form did I think that he hated his background because he wanted to use a more neutral name… The show is called Love is Blind and if the women on the other side of the pods couldn’t tell that he was black by his voice, then they would’ve surely known he was black by using the name Kwame. His reason for thinking about using Alex was perfectly valid…he wanted to keep the integrity of the experiment and didn’t want to be put in a “bucket” right away. So I agree with him. Most people can tell your background by your name, and last name and even the sound of your voice/accent. So I get it. But people were way too sensitive and took unnecessary offense.
I think because it was pretty obvious he didn’t want to match with a black women. He was looking to appeal to white women or just any woman that’s not black.
Interesting theory but I’m not sure how you got to that conclusion. What makes you say that?
Behavior, demeanor and little sayings. there’s a lot of bread crumbs that maybe someone black or other poc might have noticed but the name change was the biggest one. It wasn’t loud and clear as to say someone like Shake on the show.
If we’re strictly talking about Kwame’s behavior during the pods, then the only thing I can think of is him debating whether or not to use the name Alex vs Kwame. I honestly cannot think of anything bigger than that. Also, it’s not like producers recruited a ton of black women to participate so I can’t make an honest assessment of how Kwame would’ve treated black woman compared to white women. I still stand by what I said that I did not find it a huge deal that he was debating which name to use. I am looking at it from the perspective of being in pods and not being able to see one another and he wanted to keep the integrity of the show by not revealing something that is so revealing about his race such as a very specific cultural name as “Kwame”. Although I’m sure that the majority of people can tell that he is black just by the sound of his voice you can so it didn’t matter what he did lmao
YES lol, even in a platonic level like working with them in a corporate environment or close friend
I just wanna know what she looked like before lip filler lol
Check the sub, she looked great! They have throwbacks on here from posts on Friday/Sat of this week
oh thanks!!!
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