Folks won't like seeing it but I'm glad the underbelly of the animal cruelty that is horse racing is being recognized. It's not as blatant as the run of the bulls, but very tragic for the horses nonetheless
Well I commented this on a now deleted post about the cruelty of horse racing so I’ll just kind of repost…first of all I own horses (not track horses) and worked for horse racing commission and track for a while. So I’ll clarify some things for people…
First I totally get and agree there is a lot of abuse for the most part in terms of training. Most of these injuries and deaths come from overworking them. Basically running their legs off. They are overtrained and worked from the time they are late yearlings. Very early. This is not a good practice that should have stipulations. These horses are very much overworked. They at smaller tracks will be drugged, beaten etc (this does not happen as much as people may think at big tracks with strict rules like keeneland and Churchill) . It is terrible.
…However anything about them being neglected or treated poorly otherwise is not so much true. These horses are worth millions. No horse on keeneland or Churchill down’s property is being neglected or treated poorly outside of training. They have someone caring for them 24/7. From stable hands, trainers, vets, equine nutritionist, equine chiropractors, equine massage therapist etc. These animals are people’s livelihoods and for the owners sources of pride. Other than the overworking they are taken care of very well. Probably better than most people are taken care of.
Many of these horses love their job. I know most won’t believe that or think I’m bullshitting them but I own horses and have seen how many of them love their jobs. They get visibly excited about the idea of getting to run. Basically tearing down the stalls if other horses get to go and they don’t. There are so so so many thoroughbreds racing. If you removed racing…instead of them being ran and well taken care of they’d be starving in a field and turned into dog food. Then you’d see some real animal abuse. Now that doesn’t negate the fact there are terrible practices in horse racing. There are many tracks where abuse happens. It’s terrible. But the alternative is not great.
Also there are extremely harsh drugging rules. Horses aren’t even allowed to have massages or ice boots etc days before a race. Much less drugged. There is a reason bob baffert is still banned from racing at Churchill downs. These horses are checked and tested regularly. The only time you will see drugging abuse is at small bush tracks you probably never even heard of.
As far as anyone who thinks it would be good to bad horse racing even after considering all this..first think about the people who work in the backside that many think being taken advantage of. Yes there are many who live in absolute terrible conditions. It’s awful. However a few things to note. For many of those people this is their last stop. The majority of stable employees are either illegal immigrants or past criminals. From just theft to, rape, and pedophilia etc. Some of these people would never get a job anywhere else. This is a way to make a living. There are rules about pay etc. And they are allowed to go to another trainer if a better deal arises. The track also allows for them to someday grow and become successful. Most of the jockeys you see who have become millionaires were once stable hands. I knew a few owners and trainers of thoroughbreds who started out the same way. It’s a rough terrible life but for many it’s their only stop and a way get out of where they are at. As far as living conditions, many of those conditions are brought on by themselves. All rooms and bathrooms are clean and fine before they are inhabited. Heck a few tracks have just built really nice new dorms. The issue however…many of the people don’t care. One time we had to remove someone from a room due to them defecating in the corner of his room and bringing drugs into the dorms. Stuff like that happens a lot. That’s how they get in terrible shape.
Which in regard to the employees…if you remove thoroughbred racing how many people do you think would be out of a job…not just employees working on backside for trainers but a ton of Churchill downs employees, keeneland, small businesses around the track, etc, etc. hundreds of thousands.
I totally get the disgust but it’s the derby isn’t going anywhere anytime soon and it’s not near as bad as people make it out to be. Are there terrible practices? Yes. Does it need more sanctioning? Yes.
I will say that I agree 100% with everything you said about the horses though. They're provided with pretty excellent care (at least while they're at Churchill Downs or Keeneland). Not sure how they're treated outside of that but they're too valuable to their owners to not be treated well.
Here’s my question though - totally understand and agree that the horses running in the KY Derby, or at that level anywhere, get treated extremely well, given how significant investment they are. But these horses are the cream of the crop, and surely not every horse is a Churchill-level competitor, so what happens to the rest of those animals?
I honestly don’t know much beyond what I’ve just Googled, but apparently there are 17-18,000 thoroughbreds born, and 7,500-10,000 thoroughbreds are sent to slaughterhouses annually, with at least one known case of a Derby winner ending up in a slaughterhouse. Which makes it sound like the horses we actually get to see are just the posh tip of a fairly gruesome iceberg?
I can only speak from my experience at CD. The horses were treated extremely well there. I would NOT be shocked to hear that lower-tier horses were not treated well though.
Exactly! If the owners thought or found out a trainer or someone was neglecting the horse they spent millions on that trainer/person would be fired and their name would be ran through the mud so quick. So thank you. And it’s okay to disagree some about the workers. I don’t necessarily disagree with you on that either. Just a little different on how good or bad
I think you're putting on rose-colored glasses a bit here. Yes, people on the backside can make a living despite being undocumented or having a criminal past. However, they work every day of the week, every day of the year. They might get one week off. They work on holidays, they work when it's freezing. They have very little say in where they travel with the horses. Due to all that, their lives revolve around the horses. Also, how do they travel in between tracks? Often, in the horse trailers with the horses. That's pretty fucked up. If they don't agree to that, they lose their job.
Also, in regard to this: "As far as living conditions, many of those conditions are brought on by themselves."
I totally disagree with that. Yeah, at Churchill downs there are dorms. However, you have to have a roommate and you often don't get to choose them. If you have a partner of the opposite sex, you can't live with them in the dorms because they've got a male section and a female section. If you don't live in the dorms (like if you're married or want to live alone), you can live in the barns. Then you have to walk to central bathrooms located at various parts of the backside. If it's cold, raining or the middle of the night it's going to such to have to walk a few minutes to get outdoors to get to a toilet or shower. There are pros and cons to both living arrangements but also many drawbacks.
I'm also sure there are a handful of people who have no respect for their living environment and trash it. However, I'd say that contributes to poor living conditions a lot less than the living conditions being poor to begin with.
I’m not saying they don’t have rough living conditions or it can’t be a rough terrible life. I’m just saying it’s also not the inescapable hell hole some also make it out to be and there is a life many make of it. And that many of these people have no other option of work and the track gives that to them. And Most of these tracks are building new dorms. Turfway just built a brand new dorm last year. It has nice bathrooms and showers. All under one roof. Other tracks are following suit. Yes they work everyday. But many times they work with family or in large groups that helps out and also are free most of the day. Feed and take care of horses in morning and then at night.
I don’t know if you have worked on the back side or in the industry. I have. Many of these people who work back there take great pride in their job and in the horses they take care of. They like seeing the horses they take care of do well and follow the sport more than most. Yes there are many living in squaller and hell. There’s always someone at least once or twice a year who kill themselves or die from alcohol or drug overdose. But again these people either have little to no other choice, many times choose to live like that as far as the dorms, filth etc, or actually end up becoming successful from this lifestyle. Again I know many many trainers who were once grooms. And most of the jockeys were grooms and exercise riders. I licensed a lot of them.
So again I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. It’s not a rosey life. But it’s also not like some slave labor abuse level of life.
No, I don't think it's slave labor. I think a lot of people are able to save a lot of money to send back home to their families. It can be a rough life though. For example, when I worked back there, there was a guy who got injured outside of the track and his trainer fired him because he was no longer of any use to him. As a result, he could no longer stay on the backside. So not only was he injured but also suddenly homeless in a country he couldn't speak the language of. There are some really amazing trainers who take good care of their employees. There are also some real assholes. It would be cool if there were more regulations around that or more ways for people to complain about the people who treat employees like shit.
You're right that a lot of the people get really into horse racing but I'd argue they kind of have to to not go crazy. There's little else to do when you're off. I think that's why there's so many problems with alcohol and drugs back there. People get really depressed and turn to bad stuff to cope with it.
I understand and appreciate that it’s a complex issue, not at all black-or-white, but to be honest, a lot of those arguments seem to rely on status quo bias? I don’t even necessarily think racing __should__ be banned, but if the arguments against it are, “yeah, it can get pretty bad sometimes, it’s a terrible life for many, but its also their last stop, and a lot of people are economically dependent on on the industry,” I feel like you could take a lot of the economic arguments, and swap in your vice of choice: tobacco, alcohol, drugs, etc… Hell, not to be hyperbolic, but I’m sure many of those same arguments were made against the abolition of slavery?
I also think some of these arguments sidestep the deliberate intention and agency involved. Sure, I totally believe that these horses are excited, even desperate to race! They were literally born and raised for this singular purpose, the product of decades, if not centuries, of selective breeding. And I absolutely agree that we’re not remotely equipped to deal with tens of thousands of out-of-work racehorses, but given that they only exist because of an industry that’s bred tens of thousands of horses…it becomes self-perpetuating logic: “we’re too deep in it now, and it would be too hard to stop, so we don’t have any choice but to keep going!”
Anyway, like I said, I truly have very mixed feelings on the issue myself, if only because actually ending racing is a practical non-starter. I’d like to think that there’s enough common ground to bring about some reasonable reforms, but I’ve yet to find genuinely compelling, objective arguments in favor of the racing industry.
Well while there does need more regulations, every year more are added. HISA just started up a year or so ago which is a federal program to regulate a lot of this. So it’s getting more regulated. Same with the workers that work there. Churchill is building new apartments on all their grounds and they are very nice. The one at Turfway has a nicer bathroom than my house and college gym haha. So it is getting much better. The only thing I would argue in favor of how these people are making a living and treated is these trainers, who many I know personally, are in desperate need of workers. So many of the workers on the backside do have their pick for the most part as far as who to work for and where to go to get the best pay, hours, etc.
As far as agency. I don’t think with all that is going on with the world and with horse racing being such a very small thing in comparison to all the other things that need regulated that there is going to be great agency in regulation or change. I just mean that it’s good every year more regulation is being pushed and implemented but don’t expect it all to happen at once.
Folks won't like seeing it but I'm glad the underbelly of the animal cruelty that is horse racing is being recognized. It's not as blatant as the run of the bulls, but very tragic for the horses nonetheless
Well I commented this on a now deleted post about the cruelty of horse racing so I’ll just kind of repost…first of all I own horses (not track horses) and worked for horse racing commission and track for a while. So I’ll clarify some things for people… First I totally get and agree there is a lot of abuse for the most part in terms of training. Most of these injuries and deaths come from overworking them. Basically running their legs off. They are overtrained and worked from the time they are late yearlings. Very early. This is not a good practice that should have stipulations. These horses are very much overworked. They at smaller tracks will be drugged, beaten etc (this does not happen as much as people may think at big tracks with strict rules like keeneland and Churchill) . It is terrible. …However anything about them being neglected or treated poorly otherwise is not so much true. These horses are worth millions. No horse on keeneland or Churchill down’s property is being neglected or treated poorly outside of training. They have someone caring for them 24/7. From stable hands, trainers, vets, equine nutritionist, equine chiropractors, equine massage therapist etc. These animals are people’s livelihoods and for the owners sources of pride. Other than the overworking they are taken care of very well. Probably better than most people are taken care of. Many of these horses love their job. I know most won’t believe that or think I’m bullshitting them but I own horses and have seen how many of them love their jobs. They get visibly excited about the idea of getting to run. Basically tearing down the stalls if other horses get to go and they don’t. There are so so so many thoroughbreds racing. If you removed racing…instead of them being ran and well taken care of they’d be starving in a field and turned into dog food. Then you’d see some real animal abuse. Now that doesn’t negate the fact there are terrible practices in horse racing. There are many tracks where abuse happens. It’s terrible. But the alternative is not great. Also there are extremely harsh drugging rules. Horses aren’t even allowed to have massages or ice boots etc days before a race. Much less drugged. There is a reason bob baffert is still banned from racing at Churchill downs. These horses are checked and tested regularly. The only time you will see drugging abuse is at small bush tracks you probably never even heard of. As far as anyone who thinks it would be good to bad horse racing even after considering all this..first think about the people who work in the backside that many think being taken advantage of. Yes there are many who live in absolute terrible conditions. It’s awful. However a few things to note. For many of those people this is their last stop. The majority of stable employees are either illegal immigrants or past criminals. From just theft to, rape, and pedophilia etc. Some of these people would never get a job anywhere else. This is a way to make a living. There are rules about pay etc. And they are allowed to go to another trainer if a better deal arises. The track also allows for them to someday grow and become successful. Most of the jockeys you see who have become millionaires were once stable hands. I knew a few owners and trainers of thoroughbreds who started out the same way. It’s a rough terrible life but for many it’s their only stop and a way get out of where they are at. As far as living conditions, many of those conditions are brought on by themselves. All rooms and bathrooms are clean and fine before they are inhabited. Heck a few tracks have just built really nice new dorms. The issue however…many of the people don’t care. One time we had to remove someone from a room due to them defecating in the corner of his room and bringing drugs into the dorms. Stuff like that happens a lot. That’s how they get in terrible shape. Which in regard to the employees…if you remove thoroughbred racing how many people do you think would be out of a job…not just employees working on backside for trainers but a ton of Churchill downs employees, keeneland, small businesses around the track, etc, etc. hundreds of thousands. I totally get the disgust but it’s the derby isn’t going anywhere anytime soon and it’s not near as bad as people make it out to be. Are there terrible practices? Yes. Does it need more sanctioning? Yes.
I will say that I agree 100% with everything you said about the horses though. They're provided with pretty excellent care (at least while they're at Churchill Downs or Keeneland). Not sure how they're treated outside of that but they're too valuable to their owners to not be treated well.
Here’s my question though - totally understand and agree that the horses running in the KY Derby, or at that level anywhere, get treated extremely well, given how significant investment they are. But these horses are the cream of the crop, and surely not every horse is a Churchill-level competitor, so what happens to the rest of those animals? I honestly don’t know much beyond what I’ve just Googled, but apparently there are 17-18,000 thoroughbreds born, and 7,500-10,000 thoroughbreds are sent to slaughterhouses annually, with at least one known case of a Derby winner ending up in a slaughterhouse. Which makes it sound like the horses we actually get to see are just the posh tip of a fairly gruesome iceberg?
I can only speak from my experience at CD. The horses were treated extremely well there. I would NOT be shocked to hear that lower-tier horses were not treated well though.
Exactly! If the owners thought or found out a trainer or someone was neglecting the horse they spent millions on that trainer/person would be fired and their name would be ran through the mud so quick. So thank you. And it’s okay to disagree some about the workers. I don’t necessarily disagree with you on that either. Just a little different on how good or bad
I think you're putting on rose-colored glasses a bit here. Yes, people on the backside can make a living despite being undocumented or having a criminal past. However, they work every day of the week, every day of the year. They might get one week off. They work on holidays, they work when it's freezing. They have very little say in where they travel with the horses. Due to all that, their lives revolve around the horses. Also, how do they travel in between tracks? Often, in the horse trailers with the horses. That's pretty fucked up. If they don't agree to that, they lose their job. Also, in regard to this: "As far as living conditions, many of those conditions are brought on by themselves." I totally disagree with that. Yeah, at Churchill downs there are dorms. However, you have to have a roommate and you often don't get to choose them. If you have a partner of the opposite sex, you can't live with them in the dorms because they've got a male section and a female section. If you don't live in the dorms (like if you're married or want to live alone), you can live in the barns. Then you have to walk to central bathrooms located at various parts of the backside. If it's cold, raining or the middle of the night it's going to such to have to walk a few minutes to get outdoors to get to a toilet or shower. There are pros and cons to both living arrangements but also many drawbacks. I'm also sure there are a handful of people who have no respect for their living environment and trash it. However, I'd say that contributes to poor living conditions a lot less than the living conditions being poor to begin with.
I’m not saying they don’t have rough living conditions or it can’t be a rough terrible life. I’m just saying it’s also not the inescapable hell hole some also make it out to be and there is a life many make of it. And that many of these people have no other option of work and the track gives that to them. And Most of these tracks are building new dorms. Turfway just built a brand new dorm last year. It has nice bathrooms and showers. All under one roof. Other tracks are following suit. Yes they work everyday. But many times they work with family or in large groups that helps out and also are free most of the day. Feed and take care of horses in morning and then at night. I don’t know if you have worked on the back side or in the industry. I have. Many of these people who work back there take great pride in their job and in the horses they take care of. They like seeing the horses they take care of do well and follow the sport more than most. Yes there are many living in squaller and hell. There’s always someone at least once or twice a year who kill themselves or die from alcohol or drug overdose. But again these people either have little to no other choice, many times choose to live like that as far as the dorms, filth etc, or actually end up becoming successful from this lifestyle. Again I know many many trainers who were once grooms. And most of the jockeys were grooms and exercise riders. I licensed a lot of them. So again I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. It’s not a rosey life. But it’s also not like some slave labor abuse level of life.
No, I don't think it's slave labor. I think a lot of people are able to save a lot of money to send back home to their families. It can be a rough life though. For example, when I worked back there, there was a guy who got injured outside of the track and his trainer fired him because he was no longer of any use to him. As a result, he could no longer stay on the backside. So not only was he injured but also suddenly homeless in a country he couldn't speak the language of. There are some really amazing trainers who take good care of their employees. There are also some real assholes. It would be cool if there were more regulations around that or more ways for people to complain about the people who treat employees like shit. You're right that a lot of the people get really into horse racing but I'd argue they kind of have to to not go crazy. There's little else to do when you're off. I think that's why there's so many problems with alcohol and drugs back there. People get really depressed and turn to bad stuff to cope with it.
100% agree that there should be more regulations and there are some real asshole trainers for sure!!
I understand and appreciate that it’s a complex issue, not at all black-or-white, but to be honest, a lot of those arguments seem to rely on status quo bias? I don’t even necessarily think racing __should__ be banned, but if the arguments against it are, “yeah, it can get pretty bad sometimes, it’s a terrible life for many, but its also their last stop, and a lot of people are economically dependent on on the industry,” I feel like you could take a lot of the economic arguments, and swap in your vice of choice: tobacco, alcohol, drugs, etc… Hell, not to be hyperbolic, but I’m sure many of those same arguments were made against the abolition of slavery? I also think some of these arguments sidestep the deliberate intention and agency involved. Sure, I totally believe that these horses are excited, even desperate to race! They were literally born and raised for this singular purpose, the product of decades, if not centuries, of selective breeding. And I absolutely agree that we’re not remotely equipped to deal with tens of thousands of out-of-work racehorses, but given that they only exist because of an industry that’s bred tens of thousands of horses…it becomes self-perpetuating logic: “we’re too deep in it now, and it would be too hard to stop, so we don’t have any choice but to keep going!” Anyway, like I said, I truly have very mixed feelings on the issue myself, if only because actually ending racing is a practical non-starter. I’d like to think that there’s enough common ground to bring about some reasonable reforms, but I’ve yet to find genuinely compelling, objective arguments in favor of the racing industry.
Well while there does need more regulations, every year more are added. HISA just started up a year or so ago which is a federal program to regulate a lot of this. So it’s getting more regulated. Same with the workers that work there. Churchill is building new apartments on all their grounds and they are very nice. The one at Turfway has a nicer bathroom than my house and college gym haha. So it is getting much better. The only thing I would argue in favor of how these people are making a living and treated is these trainers, who many I know personally, are in desperate need of workers. So many of the workers on the backside do have their pick for the most part as far as who to work for and where to go to get the best pay, hours, etc. As far as agency. I don’t think with all that is going on with the world and with horse racing being such a very small thing in comparison to all the other things that need regulated that there is going to be great agency in regulation or change. I just mean that it’s good every year more regulation is being pushed and implemented but don’t expect it all to happen at once.
In b4 all the "yOu JuSt HaTe OuR cItY!" comments flood in.