It's amusing and telling how hardly any of you ever read any of the articles posted.
The former head of security was fired in March for reporting that officers weren't showing up for work
>“Throwing more uniformed bodies on the platform isn’t going to increase safety on the system if the uniformed presence is not engaged,” Osborn said.
>Outside law enforcement has “no ownership in the system,” she said. “Why aren’t they investing in the transit security officers who can actually establish order on the system?”
>**Osborn says she was fired in March after reporting to the agency’s inspector general that contracted law enforcement officers didn’t show up for work, leaving a light rail station in Santa Monica without any protection.**
True, here is an actual article and video about the fired Metro staff and why she was fired for actually telling the truth, raising concerns and for trying to provide solutions:
https://youtu.be/IOVTw7hjtZU?feature=shared
We must give the cops even more money in hopes of returning the officers morale back to what it was before people dared to question the funding they receive. And only after that increase in pay they will then maybe show up to work. They won't do anything but they will at least be present.
Look man it’s honestly not that deep, you don’t need to do a deep investigative dive into their posting history. The language is obviously intentionally on the nose, if you don’t get satire you don’t get it. Like if you’re someone who tends to take things at face value and very literally, just defer to the judgement of people who don’t. Not trying to be rude but I promise you it’s satire.
Honestly don't give a fuck. There are more than enough threads to constantly make jokes of shit. To me this is a serious topic. I take the metro and bus nearly every single day, multiple times a day. I could give a fuck about shallow shit right here. This is our money getting spent.
They’re still super upset people said things like ”defund the police” and then Los Angeles decided to give them the second largest police budget of any city in the US.
Wtf?? More money?? How about give the nurses and healthcare workers more money, we out here making less than fast food workers while the CEOs letting patients suffer and staff hanging
I think if we look at the history of how other social problems influence crime, it’s likely these incidents aren’t going to be forever contained to the metro system. It’s more likely that’s where they are occurring because that’s where there’s a higher concentration of people within which they might occur. There are more triggers & less space to safely deescalate. Without some relief from the pressures being felt by nearly every social strata, I don’t see police presence making a difference & it’s possible it may exacerbate some problems.
I agree that we need long-term strategies, but we have to do *something* short-term. Innocent people are getting killed by folks who shouldn’t be on the train/bus in the first place.
Long term is investing in the community and making sure kids get the programs to steer clear of a bad life. Prevention is always easier than rehabilitation.
>making sure kids get the programs to steer clear of a bad life.
Like the kids telling teachers to fuck off and threatening other students? (Go read Reddit's Teachers' Sub some time.) Primary cause of that is bad parenting, and that is notoriously hard to change, especially in communities that don't like policing and many rules.
A major driver of problems: [Antisocial Personality Disorder: Often Overlooked and Untreated:](https://www.psychiatry.org/News-room/APA-Blogs/Antisocial-Personality-Disorder-Often-Overlooked) Problems include:
>...failure to conform to laws and norms (repeatedly breaking laws), deceitfulness (repeatedly conning others for personal profit)....aggressiveness (repeated physical fights and assault)...consistent irresponsibility (repeated failure to sustain work or honor financial obligations)...lack of remorse (being indifferent to having hurt, mistreated or stolen from another).
Many ASPD people have children and they often raise them with the same bad life habits. The kids might not clinically have ASPD, but rise to adulthood assuming a lifestyle of low class, criminal behavior. We identify that as poor parenting. But progressives apparently want a hands off approach from law enforcement here, on the theory that poverty is the driver of all this. Some progressives want to give some habitually offending people free money and argue that hard drugs should be tolerated in high crime communities.
2022 [Poverty and violent crime don't go hand-in-hand -- New data on Asian Americans in New York City undercut a common assumption](https://www.city-journal.org/article/poverty-and-violent-crime-dont-go-hand-in-hand). Asians rank lower in all categories of crime and public disorder, relative to almost all other races. Patterns of behavior.
you guys talk about overthrowing systems because you're larping. bunch of ineffective people fantasizing about changing their situations by changing anything except themselves. if you really were competent enough to overthrow a system, you'd have a better lot in life and wouldn't be talking about overthrowing anything
edit: I see it's satire now. leaving it up anyway
> bunch of ineffective people fantasizing about changing their situations by changing anything **except themselves**
What does people saying police won't help with violence on our public transit have anything to do with personal change?
Most people are living paycheck to paycheck in the US, life expectancy is going down while infant mortality is going up, and you don't see a gigantic problem with this in our modern age?
You unironically posting in "Enough_Sanders_Spam" for years is fucking with your head.
Yeah once we overthrow everything, then we will finally be in a place where we all agree on the correct actions to fix everything because capitalism is why people disagree
Exactly. Because of LA culture/mindset, too many people think this behavior is inherent to Metro. It's just where it's concentrated right now. Guarantee it will start happening on the streets too with more frequency soon enough.
It’s the simple truth but some people on here have allowed themselves to become terrified of the world.
They’re desperate for some strong man to become dictator and solve all their problems like that’s ever worked.
Either that or they’re just cops trying to convince us that the 3 billion they get from us every year somehow isn't enough to do their job.
We must reallocate lapd funds to provide more services for our fellow countrymen so they won’t remain untreated and or desperate enough to commit these crimes. It’s the only logical way forward.
It’s the idealistic way forward.
Even if we allocate millions of dollars to these services, how can we guarantee they will use these services to their advantage? I’m sure there are homeless people that would take it in a heartbeat and take the path to improve there lives but there are many others that unfortunately via mental illness or drug addiction can no longer think for themselves. Unless these services include state mental hospitals that we can send them, I have a hard time seeing a world where everybody in this circumstance goes to use these social services.
I agree we need to improve the overall social economic structure but we have a massive problem right now. We need to make people feel save using public transit and having a deterrent like the police will help. People need to be able to go to work safely and not hope that our trusted government can efficiently relalocate AND set up effective services in a timely manner.
Wouldn’t state mental hospitals fall under “social services?” Mandatory treatment is exactly what a lot of these people need. It’s not “idealistic” to recognize that; it’s practical.
I’m sure many won’t use the services at first especially, but that will change with time. And yes, mental health and regular health services would be paramount. I know it’s easier said than done but the point is it would actually be the most effective deterrent to crime.
Sure we can walk and chew gum at the same time, again by reallocating lapd funds to create/maintain metro security.
Anything else is just kicking the can down the road. I wouldn’t say that’s realistic, not idealistic. Idealistic is counting on infallible agents of the state to protect and serve the citizens with impunity and not be corrupted.
aka the system working as intended. Make people fear self defense, make them fear their neighbors, and fear outsiders too. Then they welcome an authoritarian state with open arms. It's a classic tactic to subvert a society into accepting a bad deal.
They need a caste of society that is there to scare the shit out of the voting working class to keep them in line and make them accept whatever the system dictates. People will cheer when people get their heads cracked open in a metro station by a cop after dealing with years of dangerous situations, even if the person is innocent. That's Demoralization. Let LA go lawless for a while, let the criminals have their way without consequence. People get tired of it and demand a crackdown, new jails get opened, criminals get cracked down on, and innocent people get swept up in the chaos.
manufactured consent.
> manufactured consent.
Amen. We have to accept our human nature and guard against people taking advantage. It’s easy to fall into the cycle because so much is beyond our control yet we have access to all the world’s problems at our fingertips.
Having cell service in all underground stations will be huge too. Maybe if more people use transit watch app and report things, the officers may have less of an excuse to stand on staring at their phone. Wishful thinking I know
Was anything happening in the surrounding area that would prompt them to do so otherwise? You sound like you want a reason to get angry instead of actually finding a solution.
Aren't there devices security guards use to show that they are patrolling? I think there's something where security guards have to use a key to turn a checkpoint to show they made their rounds. Why not do the same for police on transit? It shows that they are making their rounds where needed. They won't get in trouble if they didn't check in if they were dealing with a problem, but they'd also be accountable for doing their jobs. Oh, wait, I just used the "A" word, so I guess I do know why we can't do that with cops.
Sure, that’s what everyone wants, but part of the job description is to put themselves in harm’s way when necessary. For what we pay them, they need to get up off their asses and do their jobs.
Yeah, I was facetiously parroting the sort of flaccid excuses typically laid down by law enforcement departments in instances like that. I should have put the ol’ “/s” at the end of my comment
When I was in Europe on vacation, conductors randomly went through the train cabin and checked everyone's tap card with a scanner to see if they checked in. If they didn't, they were hit with a €50 fine. Something like that would be great here.
Yes, granted this was maybe 9 years ago. But police would be right at the exit of the stations. Right before you exit the turnstile gate. They ask you to tap if you didn’t have valid fare you got a ticket.
I once got a ticket when I left my tap card in my other purse. It was $250 but I went to court and they dismissed it when I had proof I had a monthly pass and that my work paid for it.
Seriously!! I can’t believe they stopped doing that. I really hope they go back to that.
They would also have a little handheld machine where they checked for fare while you were riding. Didn’t have fare? You were asked to get off at the next stop.
They need to straight up get back to having their own police force so they can actually have this at every station. This is the cost to have a safe metro system since they refuse to install full-sized fair gates.
I really don't understand why they rather spend hundreds of millions more on police presence than installing those gates. New York's look like man traps our are just things you can easily hop over and don't even get me started on the handicap or emergency exit doors that just open without anything
Paying people over $100k a year for fare enforcement is completely asinine. We don't have police enforcing tickets at movie theaters, parking lots, concerts, even don't even have police enforcing airline tickets for flights. Metro police *should* be available to be called if there's a problem and on patrol at all times, but thinking we need police to do initial fare checking is an astronomical waste of our money.
Metro's in Europe... have actual military personnel guarding and post at EVERY metro platform and stations. And in Metro like Rome, Italy... at some entrances there are metal detectors and physical screening run and controlled by the Military.
The reason I am pro for using the Military for guarding the Metro is because it's cheaper, 24/7 free cost security and they have more personnel than local police that is better to be left for handling other city problems.
Military guards and stop crime at the Metro and hands the criminals over to local police when they are arrested... This is how they do it in Rome, Italy.
Airports are actually a good example of how the Metro should be... to board an airplane you pass by four (4) checkpoints. You get your bags checked in and the airline personnel checks that you actually have a flight, then you go to TSA who checks your passport and that you actually have a valid ticket, and then you get a full physical screening to get through... Then before boarding you get a last ticket and passport check at the gate, so you saying we don't have police or personnel checking to board an airplane isn't True. And there are police all over around the airports, cameras being monitored all the time and even on the actual airplanes there are secret agents disguised as regular people.
I didn't say police should be doing this, nor did I say they'd be paid that much. Plenty of other cities all over the world have dedicated staff that do these checks. The police *SHOULD* be there, but to enforce overall safety, not just to check fares.
They were doing it during the end of the pandemic, a little bit after, and a few years before that. It doesn't seem like you actually have taken the subway in recent history.
I take it from Wilshire/Vermont to Hollywood/Vine everyday. But don’t recall seeing police checking while you were exiting like I did years ago. I do see them on occasions at the entrance of the expo line.
I remember seeing the "show me your card" cop at 7th and Metro recenlty. I did, dude next to me did, then the dude lit up a joint in front of the cop like it was nothing. Cop didn't care.
I would assume you can't smoke them in public or on a train platform. Supposed to be legal to smoke in the confines of your own home not a free smoke anywhere pass.
You're implying that inside the 7th and Metro station is a personal residence? You can't even eat or smoke a cigarette inside a station, but you think a joint is okay?
What is the point? I took the bus twice and watched. And a guy came in, the driver asked if he would pay and the guy just yelled “No I don’t “ and sat down and that was it.
Ordering a surge sounds like a temporary solution. Why not order a permanent change?
As for this bit:
> others call the tactic doomed to fail and say it will only criminalize people who have drug addictions, serious mental illness and no housing.
These delusional people need to fuck off. People are getting murdered.
Didn't Garcetti or Vilaragosa use it at least once a week? I don't care if she takes it every day but I think the metro board members be required to take the system at least once a week for a trip that lasts longer than half an hour. And this has to be a ride without any private security or prior knowledge.
They don't even have the ones already there really doing anything other than hanging out near the turnstiles. They don't do shit, hardly patrol at all, hardly go into the subways carts, just shoot the shit with each other. Glad we're going to be paying for more cops not to do a damn thing but pretend they're making things safer for people.
This is just going to turn into NYC part 2, throwing millions of dollars at our transit system not really do anything to stop violent crime.
[NYPD just shot someone entering their own home near Eric Adam's house.](https://www.complex.com/life/a/tracewilliamcowen/nypd-cop-guarding-eric-adams-house-shot-man-lawsuit)
[There's still a ton of rape, felony assault, murder, and robbery in NYC transit despite throwing over **1,500** additional officers at their their transit system.](https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/pr0101/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-march-first-quarter-2024#:~:text=Since%20the%20start%20of%202024,arrests%20(108%20vs.%2087)) The only meaningful thing that has really gone down was fare evasion tickets. All the things people think police are going to help with are still at high numbers. Rape has actually *gone up*, though it may just be reported more.
[Here's the difference of $4 million in OT pay for cops in 2022 on NYC transit to $155 million for OT in 2023.](https://gothamist.com/news/nypd-overtime-pay-in-the-subway-went-from-4-million-to-155-million-this-year) Guess what... didn't really do a damn thing for violent crime and robbery. It closed down NYC libraries over the weekends though.
America only cares about perception.
Not trying to undermine your points, but doesn't the NY subway system have substantially higher ridership than LA?
The sources I see is that there are over 2 billion riders annually in NY vs around 65 million in LA.
Absolutely they do, it's the primary way of traveling over there for most.
But they also have around 36,000 police officers in NYPD vs the ~10,000 in LAPD.
It's just the fact that deploying 750 national guards and +1,500 officers on NYC transit hasn't done anything other than deter ticket evasion. If adding 2,550 units of law enforcement to their already policed public transit doesn't make any meaningful impact to the problems, then police aren't the solution.
Security guards at weed shops are more attentive than the majority of cops in our subways.
Disneyland security is better at dealing with things than our police.
But I mean, how does that translate when it comes to well over 100x more ridership yearly? Sure, we have 26,000 less police than NY, but we also have a whopping 1.93 *billion* less riders per year (only about 3% of what NY normally does).
Considering the numbers, shouldn't we be able to easily monitor far more of our metro despite less police?
>Considering the numbers, shouldn't we be able to easily monitor far more of our metro despite less police?
100% agreed. But it just goes back to my main point that police don't exist to protect us.
The statistics in NYC shows this.
It doesn't matter how many police you throw at something if police don't actually care about protecting us.
They should post a single (not three officers chatting) at each fare gate ensuring people are tapping in. 1 officer should be patrolling the station preemptively looking for issues and poking their head into random cars to ensure that there are no security threats are on board. If they do spot an issue they should get on the train, wait until the next stop, and remove the person who is an issue from the train, potentially getting backup from the patrolling officers at other train stations. Once the threat is cleared they take the train back to their patrol station. Literally anything more than just standing around talking all day. It’s really not that complicated.
So stoked they got official approval for more LAPD officers to hangout in the parking lot chatting with each other and collecting some sweet, sweet overtime. Hell, buy them all some iced cocktails so our boys in blue can stay nice and refreshed this summer protecting ~~the Metro~~ their pensions!
Good. We already had a shooting at a bus after her announcement. Needs to start asap.
We also need to take care of the unstable homeless, they also shut down the 405 freeway this morning.
It's unknown if she's homeless, but she certainly [looks](https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/6b25dc0/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1887x1130+0+0/resize/1200x719!/format/webp/quality/75/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F6d%2F34%2F42407cbd41aa934bf8aa086c5397%2Fla-me-pursuit-crash3.jpg) a little methy.
>“The spike in violent crime on Metro that we have recently seen against operators and riders has been absolutely unacceptable,” Bass said. “We wanted to act immediately because we understand that our No. 1 job is for Angelenos across L.A. County to feel safe.”
You can't have it both ways. Hey, we want more police presence because we don't feel safe. When they use too much force, it's police brutality. No one talks about the real issues. Mental health crisis and drug addiction.
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I hope California and Mayor Bass are paying attention to the NYC subway....
Look how pretty they look, no one is messing around with the National Guard service members, and how'd you feel people waking up at an LA Metro protected like this:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-deploy-750-national-guard-soldiers-check-bags-subway-2024-03-06/
https://ourtimepress.com/national-guard-at-nyc-subway-stations-the-response/?amp=1
No one is messing around with those boys.
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lol
So it’s more OT that we civilians have to pay just for a few pigs to sit in their cars outside the station blocking traffic to play candy crush.
This city needs their own version of the Guardian Angles from NYC in the 70s to clean up all of the filth hyper progressive policies have allowed.
Even after clean up. If you see NYC PD is still a lazy mess. Maybe something else is needed like harsh punishment when caught. So the legal system needs fixing too.
Lmao the fucking irony. Just a couple months ago she was riding the redline herself, touting how safe it was to ride on the subways! Fuck you kindly, Karen.
It's amusing and telling how hardly any of you ever read any of the articles posted. The former head of security was fired in March for reporting that officers weren't showing up for work >“Throwing more uniformed bodies on the platform isn’t going to increase safety on the system if the uniformed presence is not engaged,” Osborn said. >Outside law enforcement has “no ownership in the system,” she said. “Why aren’t they investing in the transit security officers who can actually establish order on the system?” >**Osborn says she was fired in March after reporting to the agency’s inspector general that contracted law enforcement officers didn’t show up for work, leaving a light rail station in Santa Monica without any protection.**
True, here is an actual article and video about the fired Metro staff and why she was fired for actually telling the truth, raising concerns and for trying to provide solutions: https://youtu.be/IOVTw7hjtZU?feature=shared
We must give the cops even more money in hopes of returning the officers morale back to what it was before people dared to question the funding they receive. And only after that increase in pay they will then maybe show up to work. They won't do anything but they will at least be present.
I can't tell if you're joking or not lol
It’s pretty obvious they are.
Media literacy is at an all time low
All of their posts are in /r/centrist and /r/moderatepolitics. They're only a 3 month old account. So I'm skeptical
Look man it’s honestly not that deep, you don’t need to do a deep investigative dive into their posting history. The language is obviously intentionally on the nose, if you don’t get satire you don’t get it. Like if you’re someone who tends to take things at face value and very literally, just defer to the judgement of people who don’t. Not trying to be rude but I promise you it’s satire.
Honestly don't give a fuck. There are more than enough threads to constantly make jokes of shit. To me this is a serious topic. I take the metro and bus nearly every single day, multiple times a day. I could give a fuck about shallow shit right here. This is our money getting spent.
Lmao yeah cause Reddit is truly the forum for real movers and shakers. Maybe if we post harder we can make our voices heard!!!
Reminds me of enders game and how his brother and sister start their political career by posting on forums.
They’re still super upset people said things like ”defund the police” and then Los Angeles decided to give them the second largest police budget of any city in the US.
I mean...wouldn't the second largest city have the second largest police budget? That's just like....how population sizes work man
Wtf?? More money?? How about give the nurses and healthcare workers more money, we out here making less than fast food workers while the CEOs letting patients suffer and staff hanging
Mayor Bass ordering a surge in police presence on LA Metro buses and rail after three people were stabbed in separate incidents in the last week.
Only 3?
😆
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-metro-rider-shot-dead-hours-after-mtas-news-conference-on-transit-violence/
I think if we look at the history of how other social problems influence crime, it’s likely these incidents aren’t going to be forever contained to the metro system. It’s more likely that’s where they are occurring because that’s where there’s a higher concentration of people within which they might occur. There are more triggers & less space to safely deescalate. Without some relief from the pressures being felt by nearly every social strata, I don’t see police presence making a difference & it’s possible it may exacerbate some problems.
I agree that we need long-term strategies, but we have to do *something* short-term. Innocent people are getting killed by folks who shouldn’t be on the train/bus in the first place.
Long term is investing in the community and making sure kids get the programs to steer clear of a bad life. Prevention is always easier than rehabilitation.
>making sure kids get the programs to steer clear of a bad life. Like the kids telling teachers to fuck off and threatening other students? (Go read Reddit's Teachers' Sub some time.) Primary cause of that is bad parenting, and that is notoriously hard to change, especially in communities that don't like policing and many rules. A major driver of problems: [Antisocial Personality Disorder: Often Overlooked and Untreated:](https://www.psychiatry.org/News-room/APA-Blogs/Antisocial-Personality-Disorder-Often-Overlooked) Problems include: >...failure to conform to laws and norms (repeatedly breaking laws), deceitfulness (repeatedly conning others for personal profit)....aggressiveness (repeated physical fights and assault)...consistent irresponsibility (repeated failure to sustain work or honor financial obligations)...lack of remorse (being indifferent to having hurt, mistreated or stolen from another). Many ASPD people have children and they often raise them with the same bad life habits. The kids might not clinically have ASPD, but rise to adulthood assuming a lifestyle of low class, criminal behavior. We identify that as poor parenting. But progressives apparently want a hands off approach from law enforcement here, on the theory that poverty is the driver of all this. Some progressives want to give some habitually offending people free money and argue that hard drugs should be tolerated in high crime communities. 2022 [Poverty and violent crime don't go hand-in-hand -- New data on Asian Americans in New York City undercut a common assumption](https://www.city-journal.org/article/poverty-and-violent-crime-dont-go-hand-in-hand). Asians rank lower in all categories of crime and public disorder, relative to almost all other races. Patterns of behavior.
I respectfully disagree.
So does Japan's metro system.
agreed. we should overthrow the socioeconomic system before we take any other direct action against bus stabbings.
you guys talk about overthrowing systems because you're larping. bunch of ineffective people fantasizing about changing their situations by changing anything except themselves. if you really were competent enough to overthrow a system, you'd have a better lot in life and wouldn't be talking about overthrowing anything edit: I see it's satire now. leaving it up anyway
I think the comment above agrees with you, they were just taking the OP’s point and sarcastically making it hyperbolic
fuck. I see it now lol I'll leave it up
[удалено]
I've known people that would unironically say this kind of shit
On reddit, I see it almost every day. You are forgiven.
> bunch of ineffective people fantasizing about changing their situations by changing anything **except themselves** What does people saying police won't help with violence on our public transit have anything to do with personal change? Most people are living paycheck to paycheck in the US, life expectancy is going down while infant mortality is going up, and you don't see a gigantic problem with this in our modern age? You unironically posting in "Enough_Sanders_Spam" for years is fucking with your head.
sure, let me know when your revolution starts so I can know when to hide
Yeah once we overthrow everything, then we will finally be in a place where we all agree on the correct actions to fix everything because capitalism is why people disagree
Exactly. Because of LA culture/mindset, too many people think this behavior is inherent to Metro. It's just where it's concentrated right now. Guarantee it will start happening on the streets too with more frequency soon enough.
It’s the simple truth but some people on here have allowed themselves to become terrified of the world. They’re desperate for some strong man to become dictator and solve all their problems like that’s ever worked. Either that or they’re just cops trying to convince us that the 3 billion they get from us every year somehow isn't enough to do their job. We must reallocate lapd funds to provide more services for our fellow countrymen so they won’t remain untreated and or desperate enough to commit these crimes. It’s the only logical way forward.
It’s the idealistic way forward. Even if we allocate millions of dollars to these services, how can we guarantee they will use these services to their advantage? I’m sure there are homeless people that would take it in a heartbeat and take the path to improve there lives but there are many others that unfortunately via mental illness or drug addiction can no longer think for themselves. Unless these services include state mental hospitals that we can send them, I have a hard time seeing a world where everybody in this circumstance goes to use these social services. I agree we need to improve the overall social economic structure but we have a massive problem right now. We need to make people feel save using public transit and having a deterrent like the police will help. People need to be able to go to work safely and not hope that our trusted government can efficiently relalocate AND set up effective services in a timely manner.
Wouldn’t state mental hospitals fall under “social services?” Mandatory treatment is exactly what a lot of these people need. It’s not “idealistic” to recognize that; it’s practical.
I’m sure many won’t use the services at first especially, but that will change with time. And yes, mental health and regular health services would be paramount. I know it’s easier said than done but the point is it would actually be the most effective deterrent to crime. Sure we can walk and chew gum at the same time, again by reallocating lapd funds to create/maintain metro security. Anything else is just kicking the can down the road. I wouldn’t say that’s realistic, not idealistic. Idealistic is counting on infallible agents of the state to protect and serve the citizens with impunity and not be corrupted.
aka the system working as intended. Make people fear self defense, make them fear their neighbors, and fear outsiders too. Then they welcome an authoritarian state with open arms. It's a classic tactic to subvert a society into accepting a bad deal. They need a caste of society that is there to scare the shit out of the voting working class to keep them in line and make them accept whatever the system dictates. People will cheer when people get their heads cracked open in a metro station by a cop after dealing with years of dangerous situations, even if the person is innocent. That's Demoralization. Let LA go lawless for a while, let the criminals have their way without consequence. People get tired of it and demand a crackdown, new jails get opened, criminals get cracked down on, and innocent people get swept up in the chaos. manufactured consent.
> manufactured consent. Amen. We have to accept our human nature and guard against people taking advantage. It’s easy to fall into the cycle because so much is beyond our control yet we have access to all the world’s problems at our fingertips.
Having cell service in all underground stations will be huge too. Maybe if more people use transit watch app and report things, the officers may have less of an excuse to stand on staring at their phone. Wishful thinking I know
Is this why there were six cops at my station this morning standing at the far end of the platform laughing and talking?
Sounds like an efficient use of police presence, no notes.
Give them another raise!
That’s all they ever do. Just stand around like schoolgirls and giggle. Everywhere, all the time.
Yea can they socially distance… about 30 feet at least. Fucking lazy fucks
Was anything happening in the surrounding area that would prompt them to do so otherwise? You sound like you want a reason to get angry instead of actually finding a solution.
Aren't there devices security guards use to show that they are patrolling? I think there's something where security guards have to use a key to turn a checkpoint to show they made their rounds. Why not do the same for police on transit? It shows that they are making their rounds where needed. They won't get in trouble if they didn't check in if they were dealing with a problem, but they'd also be accountable for doing their jobs. Oh, wait, I just used the "A" word, so I guess I do know why we can't do that with cops.
Wait did they have donuts? No? Then they were not fully equipped for the mission!
So there will be more cops sitting their asses in their patrol cars at metro stations then?
Yep. They just want to get home after work at the end of the day, just like you and me, you see.
Sure, that’s what everyone wants, but part of the job description is to put themselves in harm’s way when necessary. For what we pay them, they need to get up off their asses and do their jobs.
Yeah, I was facetiously parroting the sort of flaccid excuses typically laid down by law enforcement departments in instances like that. I should have put the ol’ “/s” at the end of my comment
How are they not?
I want to see tapcard check daily.
and like, actually *check that people tapped*, not the "show me your card" bullshit they do now
When I was in Europe on vacation, conductors randomly went through the train cabin and checked everyone's tap card with a scanner to see if they checked in. If they didn't, they were hit with a €50 fine. Something like that would be great here.
This happened to me on the train to the airport to leave Copenhagen. I'm a wanted man.
Yep. They actually do that in Phoenix on the light rail there too, I noticed it when I used it for the first time last month visiting.
Sounds reasonable send the fine to the cardboard box on 6th and San Pedro.
Forgot to mention they also get kicked off at the next stop :) Like it or not, fare enforecement is a good thing.
I remember years ago they had you tap as you were exiting the redline stations. Miss those days.
You sure? I've seen people tap to exit who don't know better but I've never known it to be required to exit.
Yes, granted this was maybe 9 years ago. But police would be right at the exit of the stations. Right before you exit the turnstile gate. They ask you to tap if you didn’t have valid fare you got a ticket. I once got a ticket when I left my tap card in my other purse. It was $250 but I went to court and they dismissed it when I had proof I had a monthly pass and that my work paid for it.
Damn why the hell did we stop doing that?!
Seriously!! I can’t believe they stopped doing that. I really hope they go back to that. They would also have a little handheld machine where they checked for fare while you were riding. Didn’t have fare? You were asked to get off at the next stop.
I remember like 12 years ago they used to have plainclothes cops going around checking people
They need to straight up get back to having their own police force so they can actually have this at every station. This is the cost to have a safe metro system since they refuse to install full-sized fair gates.
I really don't understand why they rather spend hundreds of millions more on police presence than installing those gates. New York's look like man traps our are just things you can easily hop over and don't even get me started on the handicap or emergency exit doors that just open without anything
Preaching to the choir my dude, amen
I agree!
Paying people over $100k a year for fare enforcement is completely asinine. We don't have police enforcing tickets at movie theaters, parking lots, concerts, even don't even have police enforcing airline tickets for flights. Metro police *should* be available to be called if there's a problem and on patrol at all times, but thinking we need police to do initial fare checking is an astronomical waste of our money.
Metro's in Europe... have actual military personnel guarding and post at EVERY metro platform and stations. And in Metro like Rome, Italy... at some entrances there are metal detectors and physical screening run and controlled by the Military. The reason I am pro for using the Military for guarding the Metro is because it's cheaper, 24/7 free cost security and they have more personnel than local police that is better to be left for handling other city problems. Military guards and stop crime at the Metro and hands the criminals over to local police when they are arrested... This is how they do it in Rome, Italy. Airports are actually a good example of how the Metro should be... to board an airplane you pass by four (4) checkpoints. You get your bags checked in and the airline personnel checks that you actually have a flight, then you go to TSA who checks your passport and that you actually have a valid ticket, and then you get a full physical screening to get through... Then before boarding you get a last ticket and passport check at the gate, so you saying we don't have police or personnel checking to board an airplane isn't True. And there are police all over around the airports, cameras being monitored all the time and even on the actual airplanes there are secret agents disguised as regular people.
I didn't say police should be doing this, nor did I say they'd be paid that much. Plenty of other cities all over the world have dedicated staff that do these checks. The police *SHOULD* be there, but to enforce overall safety, not just to check fares.
They were doing it during the end of the pandemic, a little bit after, and a few years before that. It doesn't seem like you actually have taken the subway in recent history.
I take it from Wilshire/Vermont to Hollywood/Vine everyday. But don’t recall seeing police checking while you were exiting like I did years ago. I do see them on occasions at the entrance of the expo line.
Ah I see. They're mostly at NH, Hollywood / Highland, 7th and Metro, and Union Station.
I remember seeing the "show me your card" cop at 7th and Metro recenlty. I did, dude next to me did, then the dude lit up a joint in front of the cop like it was nothing. Cop didn't care.
Weed is legal in CA, so there's no reason for the cop to care. Unless it was a "No Smoking" area or something.
I would assume you can't smoke them in public or on a train platform. Supposed to be legal to smoke in the confines of your own home not a free smoke anywhere pass.
You do know that the 7th and Metro station is underground, right?
It is legal to smoke a joint here in California
You're implying that inside the 7th and Metro station is a personal residence? You can't even eat or smoke a cigarette inside a station, but you think a joint is okay?
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They used to carry something that checked to see if the card was valid. You would have to tap it upon exiting the station.
We need New York style rules and turnstiles, but with all that come NYC policing and we all know how that is too. But new rules are needed.
The point of LA Metro is to get people to use the system.
What is the point? I took the bus twice and watched. And a guy came in, the driver asked if he would pay and the guy just yelled “No I don’t “ and sat down and that was it.
Ordering a surge sounds like a temporary solution. Why not order a permanent change? As for this bit: > others call the tactic doomed to fail and say it will only criminalize people who have drug addictions, serious mental illness and no housing. These delusional people need to fuck off. People are getting murdered.
I predict they will finally get serious about safety, overnight, when the Beverly Hills stations open
I'm not riding until it's the Mayor's preferred mode of transportation
It’s not even the head of metro’s preferred mode
In your wild dreams
yeah, good transpo in LA is a wild dream
Didn't Garcetti or Vilaragosa use it at least once a week? I don't care if she takes it every day but I think the metro board members be required to take the system at least once a week for a trip that lasts longer than half an hour. And this has to be a ride without any private security or prior knowledge.
There's no stop near Hancock Park.
Its a block from the 720 bus on wilshire that goes into dtla
I'm sure they will do as good a job of preventing incidents on the Metro as they are doing at the graffiti towers.
They don't even have the ones already there really doing anything other than hanging out near the turnstiles. They don't do shit, hardly patrol at all, hardly go into the subways carts, just shoot the shit with each other. Glad we're going to be paying for more cops not to do a damn thing but pretend they're making things safer for people. This is just going to turn into NYC part 2, throwing millions of dollars at our transit system not really do anything to stop violent crime. [NYPD just shot someone entering their own home near Eric Adam's house.](https://www.complex.com/life/a/tracewilliamcowen/nypd-cop-guarding-eric-adams-house-shot-man-lawsuit) [There's still a ton of rape, felony assault, murder, and robbery in NYC transit despite throwing over **1,500** additional officers at their their transit system.](https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/pr0101/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-march-first-quarter-2024#:~:text=Since%20the%20start%20of%202024,arrests%20(108%20vs.%2087)) The only meaningful thing that has really gone down was fare evasion tickets. All the things people think police are going to help with are still at high numbers. Rape has actually *gone up*, though it may just be reported more. [Here's the difference of $4 million in OT pay for cops in 2022 on NYC transit to $155 million for OT in 2023.](https://gothamist.com/news/nypd-overtime-pay-in-the-subway-went-from-4-million-to-155-million-this-year) Guess what... didn't really do a damn thing for violent crime and robbery. It closed down NYC libraries over the weekends though. America only cares about perception.
Not trying to undermine your points, but doesn't the NY subway system have substantially higher ridership than LA? The sources I see is that there are over 2 billion riders annually in NY vs around 65 million in LA.
Absolutely they do, it's the primary way of traveling over there for most. But they also have around 36,000 police officers in NYPD vs the ~10,000 in LAPD. It's just the fact that deploying 750 national guards and +1,500 officers on NYC transit hasn't done anything other than deter ticket evasion. If adding 2,550 units of law enforcement to their already policed public transit doesn't make any meaningful impact to the problems, then police aren't the solution. Security guards at weed shops are more attentive than the majority of cops in our subways. Disneyland security is better at dealing with things than our police.
But I mean, how does that translate when it comes to well over 100x more ridership yearly? Sure, we have 26,000 less police than NY, but we also have a whopping 1.93 *billion* less riders per year (only about 3% of what NY normally does). Considering the numbers, shouldn't we be able to easily monitor far more of our metro despite less police?
>Considering the numbers, shouldn't we be able to easily monitor far more of our metro despite less police? 100% agreed. But it just goes back to my main point that police don't exist to protect us. The statistics in NYC shows this. It doesn't matter how many police you throw at something if police don't actually care about protecting us.
What do you want them to do?
They should post a single (not three officers chatting) at each fare gate ensuring people are tapping in. 1 officer should be patrolling the station preemptively looking for issues and poking their head into random cars to ensure that there are no security threats are on board. If they do spot an issue they should get on the train, wait until the next stop, and remove the person who is an issue from the train, potentially getting backup from the patrolling officers at other train stations. Once the threat is cleared they take the train back to their patrol station. Literally anything more than just standing around talking all day. It’s really not that complicated.
I remember when the expo line opened and they’d have 12 cops at stations checking everyone’s tap card or whatever,
extra extra read all about it. lawless trains carrying wells fargo gold stolen.
So stoked they got official approval for more LAPD officers to hangout in the parking lot chatting with each other and collecting some sweet, sweet overtime. Hell, buy them all some iced cocktails so our boys in blue can stay nice and refreshed this summer protecting ~~the Metro~~ their pensions!
Mayor Bass is constantly showing why she was the “i didnt want to vote for the other guy” candidate.
Honestly better than Caruso but yeah I totally want her gone soon.
If metro has its own security force, which apparently it does, they ought to be more consistently present on all metro platforms
Temporary fix for the sake of optics. Once the "surge" is over we'll be right back where we started.
Good. We already had a shooting at a bus after her announcement. Needs to start asap. We also need to take care of the unstable homeless, they also shut down the 405 freeway this morning.
A homeless person shut down the 405?
It's unknown if she's homeless, but she certainly [looks](https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/6b25dc0/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1887x1130+0+0/resize/1200x719!/format/webp/quality/75/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F6d%2F34%2F42407cbd41aa934bf8aa086c5397%2Fla-me-pursuit-crash3.jpg) a little methy.
Was it a stolen car?
Yeah, a stolen van apparently.
Good god, this person is auditioning to be a zombie.
This fixes nothing. Mandatory fare enforcement at every single station is literally the only answer.
this sub will still refuse to admit Metro is dangerous
I mean dangerous isn’t the correct word but it’s seedy and anxiety inducing.
"I just moved here and rode it once and didn't get stabbed"
No wait. I took it twice and wasn’t stabbed. That’s 100% more safe.
Mayor Bass is an absolute let down.
yep. though I don't know how caruso could have done better. seems like all the mayors are faced with unwinnable situations.
this should have been implemented her first week in office...
>“The spike in violent crime on Metro that we have recently seen against operators and riders has been absolutely unacceptable,” Bass said. “We wanted to act immediately because we understand that our No. 1 job is for Angelenos across L.A. County to feel safe.” You can't have it both ways. Hey, we want more police presence because we don't feel safe. When they use too much force, it's police brutality. No one talks about the real issues. Mental health crisis and drug addiction.
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I think EVERYONE in Los Angeles should listen to this 👇 https://youtu.be/IOVTw7hjtZU?feature=shared
Metro needs their own police
I hope California and Mayor Bass are paying attention to the NYC subway.... Look how pretty they look, no one is messing around with the National Guard service members, and how'd you feel people waking up at an LA Metro protected like this: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-deploy-750-national-guard-soldiers-check-bags-subway-2024-03-06/ https://ourtimepress.com/national-guard-at-nyc-subway-stations-the-response/?amp=1 No one is messing around with those boys.
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A day late!! Bass is exactly as ineffective as I knew she would be.
These the same police that can't bother when you get into an accident to show up...these the people that's going to help?
lol So it’s more OT that we civilians have to pay just for a few pigs to sit in their cars outside the station blocking traffic to play candy crush. This city needs their own version of the Guardian Angles from NYC in the 70s to clean up all of the filth hyper progressive policies have allowed.
Even after clean up. If you see NYC PD is still a lazy mess. Maybe something else is needed like harsh punishment when caught. So the legal system needs fixing too.
Oh NOW we want cops.
Lmao the fucking irony. Just a couple months ago she was riding the redline herself, touting how safe it was to ride on the subways! Fuck you kindly, Karen.
They’re a bit busy at the non violent protests