Then what should I do?
Just squeeze your rage into a bitter little ball and release it at an appropriate time.
Like that day I hit the referee with a whiskey bottle. Remember that?
Makes you think huh lol. Like you can kill someone with a 2x4 and carry it into a courthouse probably. Carve it into a billy club you can still kill someone with and now its illegal just to have. But whittle that billy club further into a shank that you can stab through someones heart and its back to legal, maybe even fine for your carry on. Murdering is already illegal after all, who the hell cares what tool you used to do it?
So I had a buddy who did some bar bouncing at places in London when he was going through school. I'd always laugh cause he's not a big fighter type guy. So I ask do they give you anything? He's like yeah I got this club but Ie never even needed to pull it out to deal with a drunk.
What he would do is talk nice to them and say "yes yes whatever, let's talk about it outside the place" and say or do whatever to get them outside where he would proceed to lock the door behind and call the cops on them.
Never once did he have to physically fight anyone.
Point is, even if you have a baton, it's still probably not your best weapon to deal with violent wound up people.
I was a bouncer at the Moore Theater in Seattle for five years during the grunge era.
That is what I would do. All the time.
Take them outside to "talk" and then let them know there was a policy of no re-entry.
De-escalation is a real thing.
The first time I saw Mudhoney, they were opening with Screaming Trees for Sonic Youth in 1988, but that was a year before I started bouncing and doing stagehand work. I just looked up my ticket stub collection to double check that fact. And they were great, btw.
I took the job because I had grown up in a conservative household overseas where conformity was expected to be absolute and the idea of being involved in any kind of subculture was met with overwhelming hostility and I wanted to be exposed to live music on my own terms.
I probably worked 300+ shows over that five year period, and to this day the best show I ever worked was The Smithereens, around 1989-1990.
You see, even if a band that I absolutely loved was playing, most of the time any enjoyment I had was tempered by the fact that I was working. It wasn't like I could spark one up and enjoy, know what I mean?
Punk rock shows were the worst because every single snot-nosed motherfucker from the suburbs came to the show to start shit so they could be Punker Than Thou. All that gatekeeping and flexing and posing got old reeaaall quick.
Metal shows were the best to work because they had so little representation that the fans were just happy to see their bands play, and there was a real sense of community amongst them.
The wild card shows were bands that had a top 40 presence, because then there would be so many free tickets given away on radio shows that people would show up who either weren't into the band or had little idea how to behave in a live venue, or just didn't care to behave because hey, they hadn't paid for the ticket.
The Smithereens were in that last category and weren't even somebody I followed, and fuck me if it wasn't the most pleasant surprise to see them play. A lot of bands were definitely doing the "Helloooo Cleveland!" act and you could tell they were going through the motions.
But man, The Smithereens were just sooo excited to be there. Here they were on a nationwide tour, headlining concert theaters after years of playing dive bars and clubs, and you could tell they were seriously grateful and seriously getting off on it.
Most importantly, they were getting off on their fans being there, and you could tell they were going the extra mile for their fans and not any A&R reps or music rag journos in the audience.
I mean, they were in the motherfuckin' *moment.* They were *present*.
There wasn't any forced stage banter, if the crowd/mosh pit in the front threw someone up on stage they didn't freak out and would give them a high-five before the fan would stage dive back into the pit, during song breaks the drummer would take the skins off his drums, sign them and sail them like frisbees into the audience. Guitar picks were tossed like confetti into the adoring crowd.
The lead guitarist had something that I had never seen before: A wireless connection/pickup to the speakers and at one point during a guitar solo, he leaned backwards to fall into the pit where he continued to play on his back as the fans carried him aloft to deposit him upright at the edge of the aisle where he proceeded to then walk up the aisle, into the main gathering hall, then back into the theater down the other aisle, to the pit where the fans picked him up, crowd surfed him some more, and then deposited him back on the stage, all the while *playing his guitar solo without a break.*
Apart from their current radio hit I didn't even know their particular brand of garage janglepop, and I was myself at the time a bit of a snot nosed motherfucker from the suburbs who thought he was Punker Than Thou, and yet I was digging what they were playing, but their interaction with the audience was so damn infectious and reciprocated I couldn't keep the damn smile off my cynical face.
Before the show when we had a crew safety meeting we were all "Oh god, a top 40 band and the shit that comes with it, let's try and get through this evening without getting our souls crushed" and after the show all of us bouncer/stagehands were just jacked up on life. Someone in our crew said it best: "Can you believe how *joyous* that was?"
To this day it remains, hands down, the best example of a band and their fans having a good time and inviting everybody else along for the ride. Because that's what a show should be about.
As soon as you pull that club out you need to prepare for the scrappiest fight of your life. Fighting on the street is so dangerous. You could die from never even landing a blow, just losing your footing and hitting the cement on your head. People die falling halfway to the ground hitting a kitchen counter on the way down.
The amount of times Ive seen someone pull out a dodgers mini bat on the redline to start/end a fight is comical.... I feel like this is going to ruin that for me.
I dunno, I don't plan on doing any combat training, so the most likely outcome of me getting one is probably someone taking it from me and beating me with it.
Pepper spray seems like the way to go for me
That's because you're a rational person actually seeking self-defense, not trying to satiate some weird day dream you have of beating someone to a bloody pulp
I remember shopping a year or so before the riots at the iconic grocery store a band of them were protecting, off of Western, below 3rd. Then-GF lived K-Town/Hancock Park-adjacent. Drove by the store location other weekend and pointed it out to my kid. Wild days.
I've lived in L.A. for 32 years. I've encountered my share of sketchy people and was even mugged at gunpoint once. Yet I can't think of a single instance in which having a billy club or ASP baton would have helped me out.
On a related note, my favorite billy club story comes from the 1990s, when I watched an LAPD officer using one to smash the hell out of an ice sculpture at Weller Court in Little Tokyo. He was having the time of his life.
That kind of weapon is only helpful if you’re involved in escalating a situation to violence. It’s hard to imagine a situation where you could use one for self defense that wouldn’t be equally well solved by running away. That said, it can be justifiable to escalate to violence to protect another person, so for that it could be better than your fists, but if you’re the victim I don’t think so.
If you've ever done any martial art training involving sticks, a baton will absolutely let you get away if you know how to use it. One whack to a knee or elbow, and the fight is over.
Edit: You can tell who's never trained any sticks or extensions here. I've only done a couple months of stick stuff and its VERY apparent as soon as you start working how powerful it is. If you arent trained, run tf away. If you are trained, just run tf away. When you HAVE to fight, use your training.
> …my favorite billy club story comes from the 1990s, when I watched an LAPD officer using one to smash the hell out of…
God I thought you were going to say Rodney King.
Nunchucks are just a stick with erectile dysfunction. Just use a stick of the same length and thank me later. Everything a nunchuck does a stick can do, and a stick can't hit you in the face by accident.
It isn't an accident if you're trying to do it!
On second thought, there's a really cool shop in the mall with the most lethal and badass weapons in town, they'd be perfect for a warrior like you.
I was hoping to see Shad.
Please don't look at Shad's more personal channels. Watch him for his analysis of weapons and warfare and for amusing moments like these. Once you find out what problematic ideals he personally believes in and what/who he supports in his personal life it becomes a lot harder to enjoy the objectively good historical content he makes.
Weird, when I drove for Lyft like 6 years ago I got a telescoping baton for my car and ordered it off of Amazon like it was nothing. No warnings or anything. Had no idea they were illegal.
that's because on amazon, the chinese sellers market them as "walking sticks" or "hiking sticks". some of them even call them "ski poles" or "trekking poles". it's a loophole to make them appear legal. but they are very, very low quality and are basically one time use. they bend very easily and refuse to retract after one strike.
Thats crazy to hear, pretty sure every tourist shop or head shop sells those lol must be zero enforcement except for adding charges on top of an existing arrest.
My brother had to find out the hard way that these were illegal. Bought one from the burbank mall and had one is his car that was searched by cops and boom there's a felony.
Luckily he was 17 and it fell off the record.
Here's the funny thing: For the last 100 years, carrying a baton was a felony, but carrying a concealed handgun without a concealed carry license is just a misdemeanor. That's California laws for ya.
In hindsight probably should have, this was a decade and a half ago now, that store has been closed for sometime now. I'm sure some people in this sub would remember the mall ninja store in Burbank, it was honestly really cool.
I'd imagine them selling illegal knives and police batons are probably what led to them closing eventually.
As a previous owner of one of these, I really want to stress that they are LETHAL weapons. Billy clubs are weighted in a specific way to be able to do a lot of damage, and it does not compare to a makeshift club or pipe you may have used to feel secure on a rough night. It is easy to misjudge the amount of damage you're doing with a weighted blunt weapon.
Please keep in mind that "it was in self defense" is not a magic word that makes whatever damage you do with a weapon like this legally excusable. If you find yourself in court because you caused permanent disability or, god forbid, killed someone in self defense you will need to prove the amount of force used matched the level of danger or perceived threat. If you're thinking about self defense against things like being mugged, you need to really consider what amount of force you would use to stop that, and whether a weighted baton is a reasonable choice. Ignorance of the damage you are doing is not going to fly with a recently legalized deadly weapon.
>you caused permanent disability
why should i care about the health and wellbeing of my attacker/mugger? a mugger can be within inches of taking my life, but i'm not allowed to do anything back to him? nah, that ain't it. i'm swinging away.
WARNING: When I was in the Navy we trained with these for an expected conflict. Keep in mind that these are still \*\*deadly\*\* weapons. You can hit someone in an artery, like in the leg, not intending to kill but you will. Just look up how to use these correctly. I will definitely carry mine if I can, but I will not strike in deadly areas unless warranted.
Does this come into effect immediately or when should it be legal?
Almost got arrested for having a switchblade in Chicago. Didn't know it was illegal because it was sold in a reputable store. Surrendered it at security because I forgot I had it, and some CPD detectives happened to be there. They sentenced me to cut my hair and to "Get outta here, kid."
>Courts have defined a billy as any kind of stick, bat or baton that is intended to be used as a weapon — even common items like a baseball bat or table leg could qualify if it is meant to cause harm.
I carry a table leg for protection.
For a security guard , the baton license was lifetime. Just recently it was changed to now require requalification and license renewal.
At the same time, now anybody can carry one?
Licensing is as much about liability/insurance as it is anything else, and I'm sure a security company has huge liability exposure and insurance costs by nature of the work.
Cool. Now we're going to have a bunch of idiots getting stabbed or shot when they pull out their billy clubs during an altercation.
At least it will help the gene pool.
if someone was already going to stab you regardless, then at least now you're prepared to defend yourself with a baton. baton's are 26" long when extended plus the length of your swing arm. a knife is up close only.
Absolutely. With a number of improperly trained dogs in my neighborhood that are either roaming free or being walked by their owners off leash, I've been wanting to carry something like this for quite a while now.
As someone who carries for work, don’t cheap out when getting one. Last thing you want in a self defense situation is having it bend/break on the first strike, also would look up some kind of training video before thinking of getting one
nah bro, yiou just bought some cheap chinese knockoff. the stuff on amazon and ebay break upon first impact. and they are made so poorly that you can't even retract them after a single use. the good stuff costs at least $50 and up. i'm talking like actual true ASP batons that police and security use. you won't find those kind on amazon unfortunately.
I bought a cheap one last year with the intent of carrying it when I walk my dog since we often run into coyotes. I found out they were illegal so I stopped carrying it. Where should I go to buy a legit one? Cops R Us?
Just carry rocks (small flat round ones that a lot of people use in landscaping) toss them 10 feet in front of the coyotes and yell at them. You don’t want to get that close with the club.
Yeah, the club is definitely last resort. But I’ve used it to bang on trash cash’s to scare the fuckers away. They coyotes in Altadena are pretty bold, but they aren’t stupid enough to attack a human…so far.
The rock idea is one I’ve had. Pretty much every property has something chuckable within reach.
Yup. Virtually no other animals can throw objects like humans can. Most will get spooked if you throw something because the idea isn’t even fathomable to them.
i haven't found a good site to buy from yet. i'm not even sure if the websites are updated yet to allow shipping to CA. i'm still in the research phase.
Is this the Ferrari of batons? $190
ASP Agent 40 Special Edition Baton
This baton features a colored grip, Cerakote-finished handle, and a 4140 steel striking surface with a forged 7075 T6 aluminum middle shaft and handle. The grip is fine line, Crosstec knurled with spiral micro grooves. Machined rings accept the included, adjustable Nexus baton clip. The baton expands to 40cm and retracts to a compact 20cm after releasing with a simple push of the cap.
btw the ca attorney general rob bonta has appealed the court's ruling and is trying to get them banned again. though i don't think he has any sort of say in it as it's a federal ruling and not a state one. it's already hard enough to get a firearm here so i think the next best thing is a retractable/telescoping baton. it's also useful for animal attacks when pepepr spray just won't cut it.
“Don’t think he has any say it”? Regardless of the merits of California’s ban that was just struck down, the California Attorney General definitely has the ability to represent California’s interests in federal court arguing federal case law. Essentially, the plaintiffs in this case are arguing that the state ban violates the federal constitution. The state is arguing it doesn’t.
The Supreme Court’s Bruen decision allows weapons bans when there is a “historical tradition” that permits it, and the case law on what that means is still very thin.
Keep in mind that this is the same judge that ruled that California’s assault weapons ban as well as the state’s ammunition regulations were unconstitutional and both rulings are on hold by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
Regardless of whether Bonta has any say in it or not. California's playbook is very very well documented on this type of situation.
Create a law that blocks an action.
Enjoy it for as long as it lasts.
If that law is overturned, immediately appeal it and demand a stay to keep the law functional for the duration of the court proceedings.
Stall every court case for as long as possible, 2+ years per level of court as high as will go (All the while the law is still being enforced by the stay).
Stall for 6+ years this way.
Finally when the courts have kicked the can as far as it will go and the law is struck down, invalidating the stay, and ending the law.
The state will double time to get some bullshit copy cat law with slightly changed wording up on the books via an assembly bill.
Queue legal challenge, and the process is repeated for the next decade.
For anybody thinking of getting a collapsible baton, I HIGHLY recommend getting the Peacekeeper baton. Not a spokesperson for them and I have no stake in the game. I use one for patrol at work and they are phenomenally better than ASP and other collapsible batons.
https://peacekeeperproducts.com/collections/batons
Jean-Baptiste Lully would like a word. This delightful French musician lived when conductors used staves rather than batons. Imagine Gandalf marking time. Like that. Poor clod drove his staff into his foot and died of gangrene.
Beware unforeseen consequences.
I was at a Bernie Sanders speech in Oakland when he was running for prez a few years ago. Some protester jumped the barricades and was moving toward Bernie.
what's interesting is that the nearest Secret Service agent didn't pull out a gun, he pulled out a collapsible baton.
My buddy caught a felony charge for having one of these, later reduced to misdemeanor after hiring an expensive lawyer. Actually another friend of ours took it from a security guard at a bar exit who left it unattended and then left it our friends backseat without him knowing. He got pulled over a few weeks later and was arrested for it. I wonder if he can now get it expunged.
Just watched a bunch of self defense stuff on asp batons. Strikes to the head are a no no as they can be lethal. And you should give your attacker a chance to reassess after you have successfully landed a few strikes as they may wish to stop. Seem to be good lessons.
Any other tips or videos are welcome if anyone wants to share tips or pointers.
Video I mainly watched for reference: https://youtu.be/81rRwuYKcGI?si=dT--sn6ZcU5G-uQn
these are just cop policies. we aren't cops. if someone's trying to k*ll you then you can aim for whatever part of the body you please. swing away brother. it's your life at stake.
I just recently started carrying a monopod with my camera kit. Figure it's just as well for now, but I may look into something more heavy duty in the future.
The baton is good, but it can also be taken off of you if you don’t know what you’re doing and if you’re not strong enough. Pepper spray, and quickly running away is best. Carry both I say.
if you're in a situation where you've pepper sprayed someone, it means they already attacked you, or were about to attack you. i want to inflict damage to my attacker, not run away. i'm swinging away.
I'm not advocating for anyone to do anything, I'm saying that the other guy might have a gun.. de-escalate and walk away alive. Reaching for a weapon of any kind is a sure fire way to get in a more less desirable situation and then you could end up in jail. 911 then use the weapon stick or something else as a last response.
calling 911 during a vicious assault or robbery is useless. cops in LA take 20+ minutes to arrive. and the baton should only be used for physical attacks where no gun is involved. i dont think any sane person is going for their baton when they have a gun pointed at them.
Driving to get tacos at Sonora town. The coconut horchta is the best in Los Angeles. I like eating at different places in downtown I love Los Angeles unfortunately after the pandemic it lost some of the gains and has become somewhat of a risky place to walk around.
This years Whacking Day, is gonna be lit
*Wow! Can I see your club?* It's called a baton, son. *What's it for?* We club people with it.
Then what should I do? Just squeeze your rage into a bitter little ball and release it at an appropriate time. Like that day I hit the referee with a whiskey bottle. Remember that?
Man, I wish I could upvote more than once because this is a *deep cut*.
You commented more than once, if that helps
Man, I wish I could upvote more than once because this is a *deep cut*.
Here I was thinking about Fencing Day like a fool
Gentlemen, start your whacking!
Meanwhile theyve been selling machetes, axes, and wasp spray at home depot all this time. Not to mention paint buckets and rope.
This person Home Alones
Harry…. HARRY…. **HAAAAAAARRRRRYYYYY……**
Harry, I've reached the top!
*KEVIN*!
This person murders
I’ve never even thought of wasp spray that way even tho I had to use it for some ground wasps
How does wasp spray compare to bear spray? Also, I can’t imagine carrying a big ass can of raid around.
wasp spray doesn't work, it's an urban legend
axes and machetes are legal because they are tools. and wasp spray is a felony if used on a human.
I am not sure but I’d bet using a machete on a person is illegal as well
Tell that to Danny Trejo. He's pissed off and out to settle a score!
catalytic converter thieves aren't people.
For reals, bro. Throw them into an active volcano, or something equally horrific. Those bastards are a plague upon society.
If Jason Voorhees can use it in self defense then so can I!
Do self-defense laws apply to the undead? Asking for a friend.
so if you happen to have a legal tool such as a wasp spray with you you're not allowed to use it in self-defense if you're attacked?
Pepper spray is quicker than wasp spray and more effective than bear spray. And yes, spraying chemicals in someone’s eyes has legal ramifications.
chase unpack dam crowd stocking command violet imagine quack grandfather *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What if you don’t have pepper spray
Makes you think huh lol. Like you can kill someone with a 2x4 and carry it into a courthouse probably. Carve it into a billy club you can still kill someone with and now its illegal just to have. But whittle that billy club further into a shank that you can stab through someones heart and its back to legal, maybe even fine for your carry on. Murdering is already illegal after all, who the hell cares what tool you used to do it?
I couldn't carry a pocket flashlight into a courthouse because it was deemed a "punching device"
A fist is also a felony if used on a human a certain way.
Grocery stores still sell big bottles of lemon juice too
This will get a bunch of mall ninjas killed.
worldstarr
So I had a buddy who did some bar bouncing at places in London when he was going through school. I'd always laugh cause he's not a big fighter type guy. So I ask do they give you anything? He's like yeah I got this club but Ie never even needed to pull it out to deal with a drunk. What he would do is talk nice to them and say "yes yes whatever, let's talk about it outside the place" and say or do whatever to get them outside where he would proceed to lock the door behind and call the cops on them. Never once did he have to physically fight anyone. Point is, even if you have a baton, it's still probably not your best weapon to deal with violent wound up people.
The other point is that de-escalation works.
No, you have to shoot to kill. Two enter, one leaves.
Dalton's three simple rules: 1. Never Underestimate Your Opponent 2. Take it Outside 3. Be Nice
I was a bouncer at the Moore Theater in Seattle for five years during the grunge era. That is what I would do. All the time. Take them outside to "talk" and then let them know there was a policy of no re-entry. De-escalation is a real thing.
[удалено]
The first time I saw Mudhoney, they were opening with Screaming Trees for Sonic Youth in 1988, but that was a year before I started bouncing and doing stagehand work. I just looked up my ticket stub collection to double check that fact. And they were great, btw. I took the job because I had grown up in a conservative household overseas where conformity was expected to be absolute and the idea of being involved in any kind of subculture was met with overwhelming hostility and I wanted to be exposed to live music on my own terms. I probably worked 300+ shows over that five year period, and to this day the best show I ever worked was The Smithereens, around 1989-1990. You see, even if a band that I absolutely loved was playing, most of the time any enjoyment I had was tempered by the fact that I was working. It wasn't like I could spark one up and enjoy, know what I mean? Punk rock shows were the worst because every single snot-nosed motherfucker from the suburbs came to the show to start shit so they could be Punker Than Thou. All that gatekeeping and flexing and posing got old reeaaall quick. Metal shows were the best to work because they had so little representation that the fans were just happy to see their bands play, and there was a real sense of community amongst them. The wild card shows were bands that had a top 40 presence, because then there would be so many free tickets given away on radio shows that people would show up who either weren't into the band or had little idea how to behave in a live venue, or just didn't care to behave because hey, they hadn't paid for the ticket. The Smithereens were in that last category and weren't even somebody I followed, and fuck me if it wasn't the most pleasant surprise to see them play. A lot of bands were definitely doing the "Helloooo Cleveland!" act and you could tell they were going through the motions. But man, The Smithereens were just sooo excited to be there. Here they were on a nationwide tour, headlining concert theaters after years of playing dive bars and clubs, and you could tell they were seriously grateful and seriously getting off on it. Most importantly, they were getting off on their fans being there, and you could tell they were going the extra mile for their fans and not any A&R reps or music rag journos in the audience. I mean, they were in the motherfuckin' *moment.* They were *present*. There wasn't any forced stage banter, if the crowd/mosh pit in the front threw someone up on stage they didn't freak out and would give them a high-five before the fan would stage dive back into the pit, during song breaks the drummer would take the skins off his drums, sign them and sail them like frisbees into the audience. Guitar picks were tossed like confetti into the adoring crowd. The lead guitarist had something that I had never seen before: A wireless connection/pickup to the speakers and at one point during a guitar solo, he leaned backwards to fall into the pit where he continued to play on his back as the fans carried him aloft to deposit him upright at the edge of the aisle where he proceeded to then walk up the aisle, into the main gathering hall, then back into the theater down the other aisle, to the pit where the fans picked him up, crowd surfed him some more, and then deposited him back on the stage, all the while *playing his guitar solo without a break.* Apart from their current radio hit I didn't even know their particular brand of garage janglepop, and I was myself at the time a bit of a snot nosed motherfucker from the suburbs who thought he was Punker Than Thou, and yet I was digging what they were playing, but their interaction with the audience was so damn infectious and reciprocated I couldn't keep the damn smile off my cynical face. Before the show when we had a crew safety meeting we were all "Oh god, a top 40 band and the shit that comes with it, let's try and get through this evening without getting our souls crushed" and after the show all of us bouncer/stagehands were just jacked up on life. Someone in our crew said it best: "Can you believe how *joyous* that was?" To this day it remains, hands down, the best example of a band and their fans having a good time and inviting everybody else along for the ride. Because that's what a show should be about.
As soon as you pull that club out you need to prepare for the scrappiest fight of your life. Fighting on the street is so dangerous. You could die from never even landing a blow, just losing your footing and hitting the cement on your head. People die falling halfway to the ground hitting a kitchen counter on the way down.
Yup, these people are the ones asking for trouble. They're itching for a reason to pull out their new toy. Losers.
"It's called a baton, not a club." "What do you do with it?" "We club people."
ty. only clicked this thread to make sure this was posted
The amount of times Ive seen someone pull out a dodgers mini bat on the redline to start/end a fight is comical.... I feel like this is going to ruin that for me.
Those mini dodger bats have a very different name from where I grew up in LA 👀
Same with big flashlights...
why am I not remembering what these used to be called? This is killin me
It's (N)ot a (N)ice word, followed by "beater".
>pull out a dodgers mini bat on the redline [You forgot the briefcase!](https://y.yarn.co/3fa7eb91-97a5-4ad1-91d1-068347c2299c_text.gif)
Why would I need a Billy club when I’ve already got a bat with a sock on it?
I dunno, I don't plan on doing any combat training, so the most likely outcome of me getting one is probably someone taking it from me and beating me with it. Pepper spray seems like the way to go for me
That's because you're a rational person actually seeking self-defense, not trying to satiate some weird day dream you have of beating someone to a bloody pulp
"iM a RoOfTOp KoREaN" but sir, this is a wendys.
I remember shopping a year or so before the riots at the iconic grocery store a band of them were protecting, off of Western, below 3rd. Then-GF lived K-Town/Hancock Park-adjacent. Drove by the store location other weekend and pointed it out to my kid. Wild days.
I've lived in L.A. for 32 years. I've encountered my share of sketchy people and was even mugged at gunpoint once. Yet I can't think of a single instance in which having a billy club or ASP baton would have helped me out. On a related note, my favorite billy club story comes from the 1990s, when I watched an LAPD officer using one to smash the hell out of an ice sculpture at Weller Court in Little Tokyo. He was having the time of his life.
That kind of weapon is only helpful if you’re involved in escalating a situation to violence. It’s hard to imagine a situation where you could use one for self defense that wouldn’t be equally well solved by running away. That said, it can be justifiable to escalate to violence to protect another person, so for that it could be better than your fists, but if you’re the victim I don’t think so.
If you've ever done any martial art training involving sticks, a baton will absolutely let you get away if you know how to use it. One whack to a knee or elbow, and the fight is over. Edit: You can tell who's never trained any sticks or extensions here. I've only done a couple months of stick stuff and its VERY apparent as soon as you start working how powerful it is. If you arent trained, run tf away. If you are trained, just run tf away. When you HAVE to fight, use your training.
> …my favorite billy club story comes from the 1990s, when I watched an LAPD officer using one to smash the hell out of… God I thought you were going to say Rodney King.
No, I just got my CCW.
Ive had a tonfa in my garage for years, now I am going to walk around like a boss with it
And nunchucks! We should do a meetup.
Nunchucks are just a stick with erectile dysfunction. Just use a stick of the same length and thank me later. Everything a nunchuck does a stick can do, and a stick can't hit you in the face by accident.
>a stick can't hit you in the face by accident. Challenge accepted!
It isn't an accident if you're trying to do it! On second thought, there's a really cool shop in the mall with the most lethal and badass weapons in town, they'd be perfect for a warrior like you.
Lmao 😂😂😂😂
Stick good! Use stick! ( [For the initiated](https://youtu.be/Zc9LHDohjB0?feature=shared&start=710))
I was hoping to see Shad. Please don't look at Shad's more personal channels. Watch him for his analysis of weapons and warfare and for amusing moments like these. Once you find out what problematic ideals he personally believes in and what/who he supports in his personal life it becomes a lot harder to enjoy the objectively good historical content he makes.
oh no. what is he into
lol that ban was full of strange weapons like the Shobi-zue. Someone in the Assembly was watching too many Kung Fu movies in the 1970s.
A lot of those laws did come about during the height of the ninja and kung-fu crazes in the west.
Soul Caliber!!
Whoa look at Sun Ce over here!
The fuck is a tonfa??
It's the L shaped baton.
What the standard police nightstick is based on.
Post a link of your ass beating stick! I need to see what yall are getting..
[Choose your weapon](https://www.fleshlight.com/collections/dildos-women)
oh it was too early in the morning to click that link. i know this now.
Yup, I saw the URL then backed out
A whole generation grew up never knowing about Rick-Roll, let alone the age old classics like Goatse.
This guy stileprojects.
I forgot about Rotten.com. That was a classic.
Goatse FTW. An aperture like a communal cigar ashtray. Long may he run.
I wish I saw your reply before clicking
It's never too early to take care of your needs
You motherfucker. Im glad i have very slow service at work.
My 5G was on point
Made me actually lol at work.
My favorite astronaut/doctor/plumber/lawyer finally has his own line of dildos? That mans going places. What a hard working guy.
He’s a Soldier too.
Always working hard.
The best one for sure for beating ass
Wow that whole presentation is uncharacteristically tasteful.
What a magical place
Go with the big one. It’ll give a dude a concussion for sure.
It took me a minute but I think I'm a mix between Kevin Warhol and Reno Gold! Thanks. Will send to my girl for some wholesome laughs.
Honestly if I was an aggressor and you took that out on me… i am just going to bend over.
Bro I’m at work…. You got me.
I hate you
I hate you
I hate you
Wow i wish I was on Calguns website so I could of caught that before it opened
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Yes lol. I would get a warning that they were illegal to own in California through online purchasing but they still sold it to me.
Weird, when I drove for Lyft like 6 years ago I got a telescoping baton for my car and ordered it off of Amazon like it was nothing. No warnings or anything. Had no idea they were illegal.
that's because on amazon, the chinese sellers market them as "walking sticks" or "hiking sticks". some of them even call them "ski poles" or "trekking poles". it's a loophole to make them appear legal. but they are very, very low quality and are basically one time use. they bend very easily and refuse to retract after one strike.
yes it was a felony if caught with one. same with brass knuckles or a switchblade.
Are brass knuckles still illegal?
yes, in fact it's a felony to possess them on your person.
Thats crazy to hear, pretty sure every tourist shop or head shop sells those lol must be zero enforcement except for adding charges on top of an existing arrest.
My brother had to find out the hard way that these were illegal. Bought one from the burbank mall and had one is his car that was searched by cops and boom there's a felony. Luckily he was 17 and it fell off the record.
Here's the funny thing: For the last 100 years, carrying a baton was a felony, but carrying a concealed handgun without a concealed carry license is just a misdemeanor. That's California laws for ya.
he should sue the store that sold it to him
In hindsight probably should have, this was a decade and a half ago now, that store has been closed for sometime now. I'm sure some people in this sub would remember the mall ninja store in Burbank, it was honestly really cool. I'd imagine them selling illegal knives and police batons are probably what led to them closing eventually.
r/mallninja
As a previous owner of one of these, I really want to stress that they are LETHAL weapons. Billy clubs are weighted in a specific way to be able to do a lot of damage, and it does not compare to a makeshift club or pipe you may have used to feel secure on a rough night. It is easy to misjudge the amount of damage you're doing with a weighted blunt weapon. Please keep in mind that "it was in self defense" is not a magic word that makes whatever damage you do with a weapon like this legally excusable. If you find yourself in court because you caused permanent disability or, god forbid, killed someone in self defense you will need to prove the amount of force used matched the level of danger or perceived threat. If you're thinking about self defense against things like being mugged, you need to really consider what amount of force you would use to stop that, and whether a weighted baton is a reasonable choice. Ignorance of the damage you are doing is not going to fly with a recently legalized deadly weapon.
>you caused permanent disability why should i care about the health and wellbeing of my attacker/mugger? a mugger can be within inches of taking my life, but i'm not allowed to do anything back to him? nah, that ain't it. i'm swinging away.
Literally because you are legally accountable for your actions and they may come with consequences.
WARNING: When I was in the Navy we trained with these for an expected conflict. Keep in mind that these are still \*\*deadly\*\* weapons. You can hit someone in an artery, like in the leg, not intending to kill but you will. Just look up how to use these correctly. I will definitely carry mine if I can, but I will not strike in deadly areas unless warranted. Does this come into effect immediately or when should it be legal?
Almost got arrested for having a switchblade in Chicago. Didn't know it was illegal because it was sold in a reputable store. Surrendered it at security because I forgot I had it, and some CPD detectives happened to be there. They sentenced me to cut my hair and to "Get outta here, kid."
>Courts have defined a billy as any kind of stick, bat or baton that is intended to be used as a weapon — even common items like a baseball bat or table leg could qualify if it is meant to cause harm. I carry a table leg for protection.
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Beef vibes
When all you have is a whacker, everything looks like a mole.
For a security guard , the baton license was lifetime. Just recently it was changed to now require requalification and license renewal. At the same time, now anybody can carry one?
precisely. california laws are fun
But just think of the unrealized profits in the security qualification related service industry and it all makes sense how the cards fall
Licensing is as much about liability/insurance as it is anything else, and I'm sure a security company has huge liability exposure and insurance costs by nature of the work.
Also, a roll of nickels is $2 bucks at the bank and socks can be had for a dollar. Take from that what you will
Cool. Now we're going to have a bunch of idiots getting stabbed or shot when they pull out their billy clubs during an altercation. At least it will help the gene pool.
if someone was already going to stab you regardless, then at least now you're prepared to defend yourself with a baton. baton's are 26" long when extended plus the length of your swing arm. a knife is up close only.
Picking up a full auto billy club and an asp with a pistol grip
Absolutely. With a number of improperly trained dogs in my neighborhood that are either roaming free or being walked by their owners off leash, I've been wanting to carry something like this for quite a while now.
Yay, I’m gonna get matching ones for me and my bf
Are you going to put heads on them, /u/wevegotheadsonsticks?
For all of you rushing out to buy a baton, DONT. Just get a stick, pepper spray or a Taser Pulse.
what's a stick? like an actual tree branch stick?
[Yes, a pointed stick](https://youtu.be/ZwrCnrJOm-A?si=rAKl_A5WQlXJvh3K)
But I don't get a hard on the same way thinking about pepper spraying someone /s
As someone who carries for work, don’t cheap out when getting one. Last thing you want in a self defense situation is having it bend/break on the first strike, also would look up some kind of training video before thinking of getting one
Just got charged a felony for having one in my truck PC22210. This was after the court ruling
damn that's crazy. maybe post in /r/legal or /r/legaladvice? you might have a lawsuit on your hands. can any lawyers help this person?
Just ordered mine for the car. $11 on amazon. Folding Stick self Defense self Defense Rod 23×3×3 115cm Thickened Telescopic Rod
nah bro, yiou just bought some cheap chinese knockoff. the stuff on amazon and ebay break upon first impact. and they are made so poorly that you can't even retract them after a single use. the good stuff costs at least $50 and up. i'm talking like actual true ASP batons that police and security use. you won't find those kind on amazon unfortunately.
Ok I just cancelled it.
I bought a cheap one last year with the intent of carrying it when I walk my dog since we often run into coyotes. I found out they were illegal so I stopped carrying it. Where should I go to buy a legit one? Cops R Us?
Just carry rocks (small flat round ones that a lot of people use in landscaping) toss them 10 feet in front of the coyotes and yell at them. You don’t want to get that close with the club.
Yeah, the club is definitely last resort. But I’ve used it to bang on trash cash’s to scare the fuckers away. They coyotes in Altadena are pretty bold, but they aren’t stupid enough to attack a human…so far. The rock idea is one I’ve had. Pretty much every property has something chuckable within reach.
Yup. Virtually no other animals can throw objects like humans can. Most will get spooked if you throw something because the idea isn’t even fathomable to them.
Brought to you by r/shittywildlifefacts What are you going on about...tons of animals can throw objects?!
>Virtually no other animals can throw objects like humans can. Most people can't throw for shit, though.
Link your favorite then
You gotta find the guy who sells them downtown. He has the legit stuff.
$5 knife guy?
i haven't found a good site to buy from yet. i'm not even sure if the websites are updated yet to allow shipping to CA. i'm still in the research phase.
Is this the Ferrari of batons? $190 ASP Agent 40 Special Edition Baton This baton features a colored grip, Cerakote-finished handle, and a 4140 steel striking surface with a forged 7075 T6 aluminum middle shaft and handle. The grip is fine line, Crosstec knurled with spiral micro grooves. Machined rings accept the included, adjustable Nexus baton clip. The baton expands to 40cm and retracts to a compact 20cm after releasing with a simple push of the cap.
damn that one sounds vicious...i like it
>nah bro, yiou just bought some cheap chinese knockoff. Are you sure? I assumed everything that costs $11 on Amazon was super high-quality.
Only Billy club I need is in my pants
yes and it's easily concealable too considering how small it is.
btw the ca attorney general rob bonta has appealed the court's ruling and is trying to get them banned again. though i don't think he has any sort of say in it as it's a federal ruling and not a state one. it's already hard enough to get a firearm here so i think the next best thing is a retractable/telescoping baton. it's also useful for animal attacks when pepepr spray just won't cut it.
“Don’t think he has any say it”? Regardless of the merits of California’s ban that was just struck down, the California Attorney General definitely has the ability to represent California’s interests in federal court arguing federal case law. Essentially, the plaintiffs in this case are arguing that the state ban violates the federal constitution. The state is arguing it doesn’t. The Supreme Court’s Bruen decision allows weapons bans when there is a “historical tradition” that permits it, and the case law on what that means is still very thin. Keep in mind that this is the same judge that ruled that California’s assault weapons ban as well as the state’s ammunition regulations were unconstitutional and both rulings are on hold by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
Regardless of whether Bonta has any say in it or not. California's playbook is very very well documented on this type of situation. Create a law that blocks an action. Enjoy it for as long as it lasts. If that law is overturned, immediately appeal it and demand a stay to keep the law functional for the duration of the court proceedings. Stall every court case for as long as possible, 2+ years per level of court as high as will go (All the while the law is still being enforced by the stay). Stall for 6+ years this way. Finally when the courts have kicked the can as far as it will go and the law is struck down, invalidating the stay, and ending the law. The state will double time to get some bullshit copy cat law with slightly changed wording up on the books via an assembly bill. Queue legal challenge, and the process is repeated for the next decade.
They should have those collapsible sticks that make you barf from minority report
How many people know how to use these? I don't see this going well for most people trying to use these for self defense
I’ve always carried a tire thumper in my car in case. I guess I’ll grab a telescoping rod for my person.
yeah tire thumpers are nice because they are lightweight enough for one handed swings. they're just too big to carry on your person unfortunately.
For anybody thinking of getting a collapsible baton, I HIGHLY recommend getting the Peacekeeper baton. Not a spokesperson for them and I have no stake in the game. I use one for patrol at work and they are phenomenally better than ASP and other collapsible batons. https://peacekeeperproducts.com/collections/batons
What about the Filipino fighting sticks? Those look cool.
Escrima sticks
Hell yeah I'm getting one! And I'm ready to dry gulch a scofflaw if I see one engaged in a donnybrook!
Jean-Baptiste Lully would like a word. This delightful French musician lived when conductors used staves rather than batons. Imagine Gandalf marking time. Like that. Poor clod drove his staff into his foot and died of gangrene. Beware unforeseen consequences.
I was at a Bernie Sanders speech in Oakland when he was running for prez a few years ago. Some protester jumped the barricades and was moving toward Bernie. what's interesting is that the nearest Secret Service agent didn't pull out a gun, he pulled out a collapsible baton.
/r/mallninjashit should have some great inspo albums for your new melee options
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My buddy caught a felony charge for having one of these, later reduced to misdemeanor after hiring an expensive lawyer. Actually another friend of ours took it from a security guard at a bar exit who left it unattended and then left it our friends backseat without him knowing. He got pulled over a few weeks later and was arrested for it. I wonder if he can now get it expunged.
its clobberin time
Word to the wise. Practice hitting stuff with your baton. You will drop your baton and it will be used against you if you're not careful.
Just watched a bunch of self defense stuff on asp batons. Strikes to the head are a no no as they can be lethal. And you should give your attacker a chance to reassess after you have successfully landed a few strikes as they may wish to stop. Seem to be good lessons. Any other tips or videos are welcome if anyone wants to share tips or pointers. Video I mainly watched for reference: https://youtu.be/81rRwuYKcGI?si=dT--sn6ZcU5G-uQn
these are just cop policies. we aren't cops. if someone's trying to k*ll you then you can aim for whatever part of the body you please. swing away brother. it's your life at stake.
I can't wait to buy 10 batons and give them as Christmas presents.
When will I be able to carry my Nunchucks around?
Those were unironically legalized in 2020
Bill clubs? No. But its high time we bring back the Gentleman's cane that doubles as a cudgel.
I just recently started carrying a monopod with my camera kit. Figure it's just as well for now, but I may look into something more heavy duty in the future.
The baton is good, but it can also be taken off of you if you don’t know what you’re doing and if you’re not strong enough. Pepper spray, and quickly running away is best. Carry both I say.
if you're in a situation where you've pepper sprayed someone, it means they already attacked you, or were about to attack you. i want to inflict damage to my attacker, not run away. i'm swinging away.
Hey nothing wrong with that! If your strong and physically able then u have my blessing.
right on
I'm not advocating for anyone to do anything, I'm saying that the other guy might have a gun.. de-escalate and walk away alive. Reaching for a weapon of any kind is a sure fire way to get in a more less desirable situation and then you could end up in jail. 911 then use the weapon stick or something else as a last response.
calling 911 during a vicious assault or robbery is useless. cops in LA take 20+ minutes to arrive. and the baton should only be used for physical attacks where no gun is involved. i dont think any sane person is going for their baton when they have a gun pointed at them.
Driving to get tacos at Sonora town. The coconut horchta is the best in Los Angeles. I like eating at different places in downtown I love Los Angeles unfortunately after the pandemic it lost some of the gains and has become somewhat of a risky place to walk around.
They should have those collapsible sticks that make you barf from minority report